pvp

[warm lance]

Shield on vanish

Cdr on vanish

[waxen meteor]

Just check +2400 counts per spec

It’s clear

[warm lance]

Because people play Sin

Cause its meta

[tawny kestrel]

sub is completely broken once u get above a certain rating

[warm lance]

If the spec isnt #1 its trash

Thats what ppl think

[tawny kestrel]

thing is

sub is probably #1 in solo shuffle

no cap

[warm lance]

Im a 1.6 pleb on sub and I think its very strong

[tawny kestrel]

some things are rough

[tight veldt]

thats why above +2200 there are 240 of them

[tawny kestrel]

but every single person hates sub

believe it or not @tight veldt majority of rogue players dont want to get better

they want to be op and if they arent they cry

[warm lance]

Sin is easier to win on

Sub is still very strong

[tight veldt]

Getting better, and the spec having lackluster daamage are 2 different things

[tawny kestrel]

sub has a different kind of damage

u have insane burst

other than that u just play to survive a bit

[warm lance]

147% mastery

[tawny kestrel]

but u have burst often

[warm lance]

[tawny kestrel]

no1 rly plays flag

[final kite]

that's a lot of damage

[warm lance]

Cuz its clunky yea

[waxen meteor]

Sub is #1 in solo

[tawny kestrel]

most ppl just play a version of this

[tawny kestrel]

melee wise it is tbh

[waxen meteor]

Yeah yeah

[tawny kestrel]

u do insane into every other good melee

[warm lance]

Me being one

I run dark brew most times

[final kite]

do rogues still get blasted on sight in solo?

[waxen meteor]

Depends

[warm lance]

And more oftem than not the ppl I see play Sub are better than Sin of same rating at sub 2.1k id say

Playerwise

[tawny kestrel]

as i said, sub becomes better once u get past 2.7

and people stop being complete idiots

[final kite]

sub has so many tools available it can be frustrating to play for newer people

[elfin sequoia]

i main it in pve so idk , kinda feels the same

[warm lance]

Winning on sub at lower ratings alrdy feels essier than sin to me

[elfin sequoia]

u win as sub in solo at low ranks ?

[waxen meteor]

don’t we have no.4 and no.5 sub soloer in this chat everyday?

[warm lance]

Yeah we do

[elfin sequoia]

how

[waxen meteor]

Maybe they are sub 2700

[warm lance]

You kill the enemy

[waxen meteor]

Well tbh they are, now

[jolly sierra]

is a bad idea to play shuffle in midnight?

XD

[elfin sequoia]

no

[warm lance]

Idk is it

[elfin sequoia]

queue is faster for some reason

[tawny kestrel]

im this as sub rn

[elfin sequoia]

than daytime

idk why

[waxen meteor]

Somehow my queue was 7 mins this morning, did 4 rounds with alt

[warm lance]

Jaysus

[jolly sierra]

thought was the opposite w queue

[granite zinc]

queue taking awhile at 2k right now

[warm lance]

3.2k,#3

[elfin sequoia]

atleast u know how to play...

[waxen meteor]

EU is crazy I guess

[jolly sierra]

fine, will queue after shower tho

[tawny kestrel]

there arent that many good rogues on NA anymore

[warm lance]

EU is a different breed

[tawny kestrel]

most of them quit

[warm lance]

You got 4p Raz?

[tawny kestrel]

ye

[warm lance]

On mobile cba to armory

[tawny kestrel]

from pve tho

[warm lance]

Im at 3

Should do normal to mby get 4

[elfin sequoia]

i only got pve 4p

[granite zinc]

and I missed it while taking a piss tehe

[elfin sequoia]

😦

[warm lance]

Did you feel like the 4p did a big diff on sub?

[tawny kestrel]

no

for rotten its worth

for dark brew its up to u rly

i use it

only really buffs rupture

[warm lance]

Lol. Cba to rush it then

[tawny kestrel]

my biggest rupture tick is 35k

[warm lance]

Ill get it next week

Yeah I run rupture too

Its cracked

[tawny kestrel]

ye definitely the best for solo shuffle

[elfin sequoia]

do u guys run the x2 dance build on sub or not ?

i got this but i think i should switch since i use gloomblade now

[hardy helm]

Is pvp gear bis for pvp like SL?

I keep seeing talk of the tier set

[elfin sequoia]

not pve , just tier sets but u can get them in pvp 2 so

[hardy helm]

Im lookin at the conquest gear and there is no tier bonus, is it from a different vendor?

[quaint cape]

thoughts on dropping master assassin and iron wire for ZR

[elfin sequoia]

who told u u get it from shop KEKW

i mean , if u go spike side u should do it all the way for garrote bonus

if not just go full in to AP

[final kite]

you get pvp tier from catalyst or vault

[quaint cape]

Im getting garrot bonus with shrouded

[elfin sequoia]

i meant the bonus dmg

from all nodes

for gar

[quaint cape]

did not realize there was a bonus damage

[tight veldt]

I really want to make sub work, i just dont understand how people are doing dmg outside secret tech. I feel like i hit with a limp noodle

so frustrating

[quaint cape]

where does it indicate bonus damage on gar for all nodes

[waxen meteor]

Tbh evis isn’t bad

[elfin sequoia]

i meant bonus damage red

[waxen meteor]

It’s not putting a 200k dmg

[elfin sequoia]

sry

[waxen meteor]

But it’s solid

[tight veldt]

builds probably just fucked as well

plz fix

[elfin sequoia]

HOLY SHT

why echo on sub man

who hurt u

[tight veldt]

literally eeeeverything i have seen or read still has echo on sub. I hate it with a passion

[elfin sequoia]

i never used it lmao

[quaint cape]

akhor

[elfin sequoia]

?

[quaint cape]

you are saying there is bonus damage for garrot if I go all the way down? I'm so confused

[elfin sequoia]

damage reduction

[quaint cape]

oh lmao

[elfin sequoia]

on SW

that helps cuz we are paper on sub

2nd , u kinda waste it if u go spike and not run the AP bonus

like , it makes shiv so much better at aoe

[quaint cape]

I like iron wire, just not sure how valuable it is as maj of my time is spent not stealth

[jolly sierra]

just checked ret news in wowhead

sound like a new S tier after 10.0.7

[quaint cape]

spike is a nice filler, ZR for bonus kill pressure

[elfin sequoia]

well yes but if u go AP u get bigger pressure

20% bonus bleed dmg

for 8 sec

x2

16 sec

[quaint cape]

you prefer over spike, I feel like sustain takes a hit

[elfin sequoia]

wdym , u got shiv like , a lot of time up

[warm lance]

Echo is good on sub

You can run echo or strata

Both are good

[quaint cape]

this build is basically what everyone was running pre 10.5 with the lose of iron wire and the gain of ZR

[elfin sequoia]

show me top ppl that use it....

never saw echo on sub

kinda stupid since u run 7 cp anyway

[gleaming pawn]

I like how “button bloat” is one of the listed reasons for the rework. As if they have more than 4 main buttons. And in a world when Rogue and Monk exist

[warm lance]

It is used. Most just dont want the button bloat

Simplifies it alittle

[jolly sierra]

ret mains cant process information after 4 keys

[warm lance]

Er vs Strata is mostly preference

[jolly sierra]

one of the reasons too is shitty survival

[gleaming pawn]

Apparently Ret Devs can’t either

[waxen meteor]

Tbh it’s important to prepare different builds for sin now. Dealing with melee blend or play with caster can be so different. And in melee blend iron is only useful probably if you swap to healer and it works only at open (and you don’t sap healer) and vanish swap

[warm lance]

Raz runs Echo and hes 3.2

[jolly sierra]

but as usual

after a rework

the affected spec become broken af

so be prepared

[tawny kestrel]

every1 runs echoing reprimand

as sub

[warm lance]

Echo slaps

[elfin sequoia]

i am literally checking pika nesper and nahj and none of them do like

same for ladder players

[warm lance]

Hoo boy

[warped anchor]

Nessper playing sub?

Thought he hated it

[tawny kestrel]

im sorry but eu sub rogues are superior

echoing is the play

majority of the time NA ladder is very much a meme

they only show up during awc

[warped anchor]

Pika always runs funny builds

[elfin sequoia]

i mean , in awc did not see anyone run echo so

[warped anchor]

Wasn't there only one sub rogue

Or did na have some

[waxen meteor]

Very few if not only 1

[tawny kestrel]

if rat was the only sub rogue in awc

then the only sub rogue in awc ran echoing

[waxen meteor]

But tbh, it’s hard to link in game tuning to AWC, the super elite/pro gamer performance. It also seem mage is quite OP from the final roster, but it might also be different from most people’s impression. This is a MMO RPG with a extremely competing feature, where you will have professionals maximum usage of certain skill with great sync with teammates. but in the end the leader of voice cannot only be rank1 dudes. Most people, either average rank one, or the ones beyond average but not elite yet are the ones that drive the tuning (in my opinion)

I understand there could be statement like you are just not playing it right, you don’t want learn

But in the end it’s a MMO RPG for most people to have fun

And like in sports, you don’t nerf 3 point shoots because Steph curry shoots it so good

[warped anchor]

Sometimes I forget mage is a class

[elfin sequoia]

bro how the fuck do i get 4 wins in solo and get no rating....

rating unchanged...

[warped anchor]

Low mmr lobby

[elfin sequoia]

bro...

[warped anchor]

Should increase your mmr at least

[inner yew]

Rotten sub build still good?

Or what do people go now

[worthy crag]

preference

you can omit rotten in favor of dark brew

[worthy crag]

Should take 1 min sprint over the 30% snare reduction talent in class tree

[elfin sequoia]

i mean , as much as i could say yes , i just had a game with a BM hunt that just made me move at like 90% slow

with that 30% red

so

[waxen meteor]

It reduce slow duration

Not how much it slows you down, right?

[worthy crag]

correct

duration reduction

[waxen meteor]

Or maybe I read your question wrong

[primal ledge]

Correct. hamstring lasts 6 seconds on my rogue with it.

[elfin sequoia]

movements speed slowing effects so

any kind of movement slow

[waxen meteor]

So I think 90% slow or 70% won’t be impacted

It’s more on how frequent slowness gets refreshed on you

[elfin sequoia]

i mean , 70 bonus movement when i do not move or i do not move but i get out of it faster?

[warped anchor]

Most snares are spammable or automatic though

[waxen meteor]

Yeah

That’s probably why it’s not that popular

[waxen meteor]

I am not sure if I get your question right

But let’s use an example

If someone applies a 50% slowness on me, which lasts 10 seconds

With this talent I am still moving as 50% speed but it only lasts 7 sec

So fundamentally the question is, will that dude apply another slowness on me within 7 sec regardless?

[elfin sequoia]

and with the other i move at bonus 20% every 1 min

if u play vs ranged that wanna keep u away cuz u are rog , most times 🥲

[warped anchor]

what are you getting kited by

[waxen meteor]

Tbh I don’t know if you can chase anyone easily with sprint Only

But if you take sprint pvp talent it’s diffenr story

[elfin sequoia]

but i mean , would u take sprint out most of the time over disarm?

[waxen meteor]

No

[elfin sequoia]

since the place is full of rogues now disarm kinda has value 24/7 , ait been a game yet that i did not find a rogue or dh out there

[waxen meteor]

But if you are careful enough you can adjust accordingly

[elfin sequoia]

well yes but mostly u need to find that 1 time u find 2 druids or druid caster

[waxen meteor]

If you want a one build for all probably you will keep disarm

[elfin sequoia]

most of the times u have 1 melee and be it dk war rog or dh , value on them is big since they do a lot

i run that smoke and duel

[warped anchor]

You can always just make them come to you if you don't have mobility

[waxen meteor]

By /lol?

[warped anchor]

Yes

[wicked tide]

@tawny kestrel what value do you think echoing brings over strata?

[tawny kestrel]

echoing is better cus it makes ur burst better

[wicked tide]

playing reverb?

nvm i see them playing echoing

[graceful ravine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53O4nL-iQEY&ab_channel=Pikabooirl

those games against liquid are sick

[light estuary]

any1 got a few good sin specs i can import for RSS?

[quaint cape]

this is pretty standard

[graceful ravine]

the look on your face when you deathmarked a target at 20% and your pally blinding lights it off next global

[potent pivot]

[waxen meteor]

pickaboo trinket on a disarm

[potent pivot]

there's a good one linked in the pins, though you can also move points into Zoldyck's if you have 4p for a bit different playstyle

[bitter tendon]

frozen devotion procing from your bleeds or poisons after you vanish does unstealth you

[potent pivot]

nice, good to know

[light estuary]

@quaint cape@potent pivot ty

[potent pivot]

thanks for bringing the info after testing it out

[warm lance]

Atleast sophic devo3 is like 15k only now

[waxen meteor]

Why is his rupture always showing like 4 times in a row

Is it just because he pressed bunch of times?

[potent pivot]

that addon has always done that on certain abilties iirc

[waxen meteor]

Ok! Thanks!

[potent pivot]

it's def not the button presses, i thought so too a while back

[warm lance]

Trickz forgive me. Ive got up to 1.7k on warrior and havent touched rog this week yet

[potent pivot]

[warm lance]

It was 1.1k sometime ago with 30% wr

Now like 55%

Chillest matches ive played since ever

[potent pivot]

elite inc

[warm lance]

Tbh i wouldnt be against it

[waxen meteor]

another patch?

[warm lance]

My og class

[gleaming pawn]

pretty sure it's the number of CPs he used on Rupture, no idea why it only displays like that for rupture and not our other spenders

[chrome schooner]

It's just the addon that has been behaving like that with Rupture/Nightblade since its creation. Never fixed.

[light estuary]

any1 getting lag spikes due to addons because of the new patch?

in arenas, it's just lagging everytime i use a gcd

[tribal bay]

unholy DK discord trying to tell me UHDK is harder to be good at in SS than assa rogue

[jolly sierra]

retaking my points praise me

i just spammed sap in healer and a blind to make the dps waste cds

[lucid lark]

Maaan. I don't know what to play

[unborn portal]

have you considering playing what you think is fun

[warm lance]

Spec Ops: The Line

[lucid lark]

great game

[warm lance]

Amazing

Mindfuck

[lucid lark]

Fun to me is like playing a class to mastery and just really digging deep into it. my issue right now is there's a lot of specs I could see myself playing but I'm afraid to commit to one thing. But I really NEED to do that. But my crippling fucking ADHD-addled brain won't let me

[unborn portal]

I used to be like you

[tribal bay]

i have adhd and i play 2 classes

dk and rogue

[warm lance]

SoloQ has broken me finally. Ive unleashed the zug

[unborn portal]

literally in legion I would make alt; get bis legendaries and then switch classes

LMAO

I had like 6 classes with BIS legendaries early on

idk when I decided to just rogue main

[potent pivot]

madlad

[unborn portal]

in BFA I played lock in raid

[warm lance]

I havent stuck to a class since wotlk

[unborn portal]

then I came back to SL and just slammed rogue

since

I quit after s1 in BFA because

[lucid lark]

I was the opposite. rogue was the first class I picked and I played it all the way to MoP where I actually fell in love with old survival hunter

[unborn portal]

gearing was shit

[lucid lark]

But there's nothing quite like that now

[unborn portal]

I hated azerite

I always say

I would probably main hunter if BM didnt exist

[warm lance]

I always go back to warrior but i multiclass 90% of the time

[unborn portal]

the fact that BM exists means that it can and has and will be meta

and I will never play BM

lmao

[warm lance]

Except in wotlk i only have hunter

[jolly sierra]

well technically "new surv" is the old surv

they used to be melees based in traps and kiting

[unborn portal]

give me back legion death from above rogue

[lucid lark]

I mean like, old explosive shot burst. It was simple but incredibly fun

[unborn portal]

super funnel dam

[lucid lark]

The ret rework has me curious but

[jolly sierra]

yeah, the "old surv" still recall doing 1600 in wod full in blues

without knowing anything about basics in pvp

[jolly sierra]

S tier

expect that

blizz doesn't know how to balance

[lucid lark]

I've worked on some games and I can safely tell you no games company knows how to balance everything. Fighting games are probably close but then it's still lopsided

At the scale of WoW? all factors decided? no shot. There's always going to be a dead first and dead last. Just how it is

Until the pendulum swings your way

[jolly sierra]

well, so if they wanna left the ret fine is just op, right?

[lucid lark]

Can you retype that

I can't tell what you're trying to say

[jolly sierra]

if they intends to make pally viable, they probably will left it just op

[potent pivot]

Preparation, Burst of Speed and Anticipation were peak rogue

[jolly sierra]

specially burst of speed

perma sprint kek

[lucid lark]

The problem with ret before the big buff patch, and after the nerf remained. Ret has a fourteen button combo burst setup, stacking modifiers and stupid little buffs

So regardless of how good it is, was or isn't, it's not fun to play

[jolly sierra]

thought it was

for new players tho

[lucid lark]

I don't think a new player could honestly pull off the burst window completely honestly

[warm lance]

Balance for the most part atm is good I feel. Itll be hard to make it better

[jolly sierra]

well can confirm

[warm lance]

Theres a couple outliers

[jolly sierra]

a guy with 4 set did less dmg than me in a skirmish as ret

[lucid lark]

Yeah, true ret does good damage, the problem is that it's not fun damage delivery

That was always the issue on the ret forums

Ret WORKS but at the cost of being wildly unfun to play

IMO holy and ret haven't really had an identity of their own for awhile

[warm summit]

this is gonna sound real dumb but someone just telling me "cc the healer" has helped way more than i expected

[lucid lark]

I wish frost DK wasn't a meme

[quaint cape]

okay, hear me out

[lucid lark]

no

[quaint cape]

I know everyone shits on ensag but with ZR

and AP, trhe burst is disgusting

[warm lance]

No shrouded

Pass

[lucid lark]

No bonespiek

[warm lance]

No iron wire

[quaint cape]

open your minds, try it

[lucid lark]

no master assassin

[warm lance]

So much missing dmg modifiers from your hardest hitting ability

[proper heath]

wtf is ZR

[potent pivot]

MA is kinda dogwater homie

[potent pivot]

zoldycks recipe

[warm lance]

Garrote missing so many things

[proper heath]

.......

[quaint cape]

I know but you also gain other things

[lucid lark]

I would have been actually salivating over that talent like 10 years ago. how far we've fallen

[potent pivot]

i don't think AP is going to see play outside of very specific situations

[warm lance]

Not enough to make it worth

[proper heath]

vomit

[lucid lark]

hear me out

enhancement shaman

[potent pivot]

[proper heath]

none of this matters

the -15% is coming

We all need to reroll

DH here I come

[warm lance]

Im already done setting up warrior

[proper heath]

#abandonship

[lucid lark]

if I could be a night elf enhancement shaman, I'd [probably never play anything else

[dense dock]

just shy of 1600 anything anyone would change around for that extra rating edge. its in Solo Shuffle tho

[fleet verge]

I'm in my get-good phase rn because I'm being trained so hard in these solo shuffles, I can't stay alive against super high burst windows as sin.

[lucid lark]

sin rogue is like the most killed target typically, right? or one of

[fleet verge]

yeah, I'm just trying to learn the counterplay.

It's really hard to get a Havoc off my ass

have been debating if sub is the play for solo

[dense dock]

cloak him

[fleet verge]

I can only cloak him once every 2 mins though, his burst comes up a lot faster and a lot longer than 5s

[potent pivot]

only thing i'm really noticing off the top of my head is get some conq gloves to catalyst next week unless you get them in vault so you can run crafted helm, and get Trophies of Strife belt

[dense dock]

I have 8 trophies

can't find the stupid vendor

[fleet verge]

its not a vendor anymore

just take em to the upgrade guy

[potent pivot]

^

[dense dock]

this?

[potent pivot]

ye

[fleet verge]

ye

was confused af when pushing on my other character when I suddenly couldn't get primalist infused drakebreaker gear

there was a weird bug where the trophies werent spent by upgrading, or at least I think it was a bug

[potent pivot]

have you tried running BM trinket?

[fleet verge]

I have not tried running health trinket

[potent pivot]

it's good

[fleet verge]

I might need to, my damage is pretty good because lol assassin, but it's so hard to let my healers stabilize

[dense dock]

fml

[fleet verge]

anything I can do to help healers who are getting chain CC'd besides kick poly/cyclones/fears and throw out some stuns?

[jolly sierra]

question, do u win mmr if you win 3 shuffle rounds?

[fleet verge]

it depends on your hidden mmr

If you're calculated to be at exactly your expected rating, it goes 0 or a slight increase or decrease.

[jolly sierra]

ah gotcha

[fleet verge]

I've had matches as DH where because it expected me to be 1850, going 3-3 just meant my rating was unchanged.

[jolly sierra]

maybe u can cc 1 dps to stop some dmg

kk

[fleet verge]

I'll try anything at this point, these poor healers can't even put any healing on me before I die after I lose my immunities

[jolly sierra]

oof

fought against an evoker and an sub in the same round

[fleet verge]

evoker is really funny, I still don't know how to counterplay them

[jolly sierra]

one killed me with a 120k hit and the sub the same

[fleet verge]

ele shamans/evokers were my bane climbing as DH

[jolly sierra]

w technniques

ah i lost cr against and ele and a enh

the enh killed me with a 86k hit and the ele was close

maybe i was just unlucky

[fleet verge]

ele iirc has a setup where if you let them do it they can instant cast like 6 times

and just hit you like a lead train

[jolly sierra]

yeah and they seems nerfed by blizz

apparently lol

[fleet verge]

this season has been kind of weird balance wise

better than shadowlands arenas at least

[warm summit]

got above 1950 for the first time

[fleet verge]

cz

[jolly sierra]

gratz

[fleet verge]

now become glad as outlaw

[warm summit]

i dont like outlaw anymore

[lucid lark]

blizzard for certain had bigger talent tree overhauls in mind but likely got pushed to release early and trickle out adjustments

I'm hoping we see more overhaul type stuff like ret

and hopefully they flesh out the new druid stuff better as well

[graceful ravine]

holy shit lol

my biggest evis ever

[fleet verge]

I have to assume certain classes like Sin/Havoc/UH are due for more nerfs still, which I understand on one hand but on the other I just hope they don't smash them with a hammer.

[graceful ravine]

150k evis on a dh, no shadow portion

[fleet verge]

he deserved it for playing a demon hunter

[graceful ravine]

134k physical and 27k shadow doesnt make sense to me tho

[jolly sierra]

deserved

[fleet verge]

I don't play sub atm so I don't know how their setup goes

[jolly sierra]

u even have the tag colors

[fleet verge]

I was a sub rogue in Shadowlands

I don't have a lot of time rn bc of college so I'm just playing FOTM spec to get my set tbh

[jolly sierra]

ah well

studies 1st always

[fleet verge]

I am kinda considering going sub though just for a little extra self sustain lol

hurts real bad when a ret/ww smack you around

[jolly sierra]

yeah, but when im playing ret hurts a lot being hit for a 120k secret technique

i wanna see something

[fleet verge]

Did Sub get impacted by the rogue changes a couple days ago?

[wicked tide]

dayv what spec are u running dark brew/macabre?

[jolly sierra]

is secret techniques dmg instant?

[neon slate]

No there’s a delay

[graceful ravine]

https://streamable.com/b80yj0

[jolly sierra]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[graceful ravine]

flag is a meme but crazy when it works out

[lucid lark]

looking at gift of the naaru compared to fireblood makes me want to strangle blizzard tbh

[graceful ravine]

killed that dh in 3 globals lol

[jolly sierra]

that is the reason the wa said "secret technique incoming"

fuck im dumb af

[neon slate]

I don’t love that subs only source of damage is reactable with defensives lol

[jolly sierra]

ty guys will be more aware next time

[jolly sierra]

yeah, survived everything but that

every season i learn something new lol

[lucid lark]

Can you use deviate delight in arena

v serious question

[jolly sierra]

no

[bitter tendon]

any undead rogues getting unstealth when touch of the grave heals you?

[neon slate]

So I’ve been hard stuck all season, I drank like 4 glasses of scotch hopped on outlaw rogue and climbed 400 mmr

You need lower inhibitions

[lucid lark]

Can't be nervous if your nerves are drowning in some highland muck

[jolly sierra]

im climbing playing cyberpunk 2077 music

[neon slate]

Outlaws drink hard liquor so obviously you need to get in character to perform

[fleet verge]

whoever suggested health badge for sin, ty v_v

saved me a lot

[tribal bay]

only 1 of those classes need nerfs and im in the discord for it now

[fleet verge]

Maaan, I climbed to 1950 as Havoc in 1 day, that shits busted

essence break and the hunt are just so powerful

[neon slate]

i lost 6-0 to a backpedaling idiot havoc

[fleet verge]

it was probably me tbf

[neon slate]

I was like bro you're just PVEing while holding W and he was like yah

[tribal bay]

theres nothing special about demon hunters

they're like A tier at best

[fleet verge]

their output is just really good and requires very little set up

[tribal bay]

yeah and so is an assa rogue is just requires a bit of set up

different classes

cant nerf a classes play style

[fleet verge]

sin rogue is really really stronk rn too

[neon slate]

idk haven't checked since 10.05 but when i checked before that there was like 7 outlaw rogues above 2400 in solo shuffle and literally like 350 havoc DH so they must be kinda good

[tribal bay]

and UHDK was only strong because it was invincible to any magic damage with spellwarden

my spellwarden was healing for like 800k bro

at least

[fleet verge]

The spellwarden stuff was hilarious

I haven't checked the numbers out, but I'm curious to see how their Death Strike buff helped

[tribal bay]

now we have a nerfed death strike

its better

but improved DS still 50% nerfed in pvp

before i didnt even press death strike

it did nothing at all

[fleet verge]

doesn't the math work out so even with improved DS nerf, death strike is still significantly better?

[tribal bay]

now its kept me alive to give my healer a sec to recover me

its really not that great

it heals for like 40-50k pre dampening

and uses a lot of runic power

[fleet verge]

I miss the one honor talent that made Death Strike cheaper on CD

[tribal bay]

the problem with it is

they nerfed how much u get healed by how much ur hit for

so they took away the skill ceiling in using the ability

your meant to time your hits so you dont waste it on the minimum heal

[fleet verge]

I'm curious to see the stats for solo shuffle post .5

[lucid lark]

anyone have a solid plater import with like info for important totems and pets and shit like psyfiend

[tribal bay]

i do

but

its set up for my DK so i dont know if it will transfer over

havent used it on my rogue yet

[lucid lark]

Should work np

[tribal bay]

ill send you the txt file if your DMs are open

the string is long

[lucid lark]

I can tweak it if necessary and ya DM

[tribal bay]

psyfiends/warbanners/healing tide etc are all pink i think

someone sent it to me last night ive only played 2 games with it so far

but it seems good

[lucid lark]

nie

nice

[jolly sierra]

today is not my day w ret tho

[fleet verge]

it happens

I'm still trying to git gud with rogue, I'm too Havoc-brained atm

[jolly sierra]

lost like 100 CR against evokers and shams

[tribal bay]

bro im so DK brained

[jolly sierra]

i was just spamming word of glory

[fleet verge]

"why isnt death grip working"

[tribal bay]

finding rogue so hard in pvp

i main it pve wise

but then just flop as sin in SS

i can win games as sub but i just PVE them at low mmr

[fleet verge]

sin has a weird flow to it

still figuring out how to use bone spikes

deathmark seems(?) to work best once you've already set up quite a bit and doesn't seem to work well as an opening burst

I could be totally 100% wrong there though

[neon slate]

im having the most fun on outlaw

i love blade rush as a spell

feels like between step grappling hook and blade rush im just where im tryna be

[lucid lark]

top ghost wolf glyph go

THis was peak tier set tbh

[neon slate]

wow, way too OP for todays meta

[fleet verge]

deathmark works on rupture/garrote retroactively, please ignore me for i am cringe

[tribal bay]

yeah thats what ive read

does everyone

know

actually

thats right

should i sap blind every healer at the start of a round

[fleet verge]

its a free 30% healing reduction for 6 seconds

iirc the play is to sap and then blind them when starting your opener

these 30m solo queues are making me wanna die though

[tribal bay]

whats the sin stat prio

mastery>vers>crit>haste?

or mastery>vers>haste>crit

[twin burrow]

Get like 6-8 percent haste non pvp a scaled

[lucid citrus]

Mast>Verse>Haste>crit

[lucid lark]

i just want you guys to know that even if I main this stupid enh shaman, I'll still talk here about it because I like rogue players the most

[tribal bay]

enhance

why

[lucid lark]

i like shooting lighting from my hands but not too much

[tribal bay]

play ele

[neon slate]

thats why i play outlaw

i like to have a gun, but not too much

or else i'd play hunter

[tribal bay]

damn that extra haste kinda slaps

so we only have to SBS our targets once?

[steel linden]

Unless they leave combat, yes

[tribal bay]

what can i macro trinket into?

as assa

deathmark?

also has anyone got a shadowmeld > stealth macro

[proper heath]

#showtooltip Shadowmeld
/cancelaura Kevin's Oozeling
/cast Shadowmeld(Racial)
/cast !stealth
@tribal bay

[steel linden]

Rets are getting buffed. 10.0.7.

Also, @tribal bay I bind AGI trinket to deathmark and have a separate button to maximize uptime on it.

[worthy crag]

rework

Maybe theyll get blessing of spellwarden back like DF alpha

[steel linden]

RE(B)W(U)O(F)R(F)KED

[jolly sierra]

demo lock/dk/chicken w my monk

i fucking died

im go to sleep what a waste of night

even w defensives cant survive anything

[steel linden]

Sounds better than my triple lock lobby the other night

[jolly sierra]

dude i hate rng in night

for real

[tribal bay]

OCE night hours have the best lobbies

daytime OCE lobbies make me tank rating on anything i play

[neon slate]

wtf is kevins oozeling

[worthy crag]

Something that can stay forgotten forever

[graceful ravine]

does any chad rogue here have an elvui filter list showing only dots?

[jolly sierra]

dont think ele/hunter/devoker/demo lock lobbies are good for monk/ret alt tbh

the rog yeah, agree, is having a very good streak

but tbh my melee cleave lobbies become very rare

im having mostly ranged lobbies rn

[dull bridge]

wizard meta is inevitable

[jolly sierra]

lemme recall

w monk today was

unholy/demolock/chicken

w ret was
devoker/sub/warrior
devoker/BM/surv
ele/enh/warr

literal that for today

every lobby with some kind of unreactable dmg

w rog today was
surv/demo/dk
some shit which gaves me a lot of cr so had positive difference

[tribal bay]

is lariat bis for rogues too

[gleaming pawn]

Bicmex getting absolutely deleted by the ele shaman today in AWC really makes me question how they haven't been nerfed yet

[jolly sierra]

ele is ridiculous RN

there is no way to stay unnerfed

[gleaming pawn]

it's really only a possible as Sub, feelcrafty tied-ish with the crafted ring

general consensus for Sin/Outlaw is helm for second embelish

[tribal bay]

whats first embellish, boots?

[gleaming pawn]

really wont make a difference in the long run though, unless you are playing at 3k rating

yeah, boots for the CC reduction

[tribal bay]

i feel like boots are over hyped

lariat seems better lowkey

[jolly sierra]

w the pally i was outraged af after dying and spamming word of glory while i was doing dmg

[warm lance]

Silver lining of Ele, like Sin is that in under 2k theyre kinda not great at surviving

Most Eles just fold over no matter which char I play

[jolly sierra]

here even high ranked players were complaing for ele

[warm lance]

Then theres the odd god Ele that just blasts

[tribal bay]

yeah eles get crushed in my 1800-2k lobbies im in on my DK

no chance for them

[jolly sierra]

i wanna melee lobbies to crush the ele

[warm lance]

Ive ran into some wholl fuck you for breakfast while doing unhealable dmg

[jolly sierra]

but every time are rarer at least for me

[warm lance]

Eles are mostly non issue for me for now on warr

[jolly sierra]

still dont get

[warm lance]

But high rated eles are stupid good

[jolly sierra]

how the demo peeled me through every defensive after tyrant faded w my monk

[warm lance]

Just do be like that on demo

[jolly sierra]

ah tried, just died

i was w defensives and hitting after his burst

[toxic yarrow]

Cdews kidney shot tweet is hilarious

[jolly sierra]

nvm, will try again tomorrow

anyways, w rog rounds become extremely easy

just sapped healer, let 2v2 then used blind went to the zugzug warrior, bursted smoke bomb and just fkn died

[lucid lark]

everytime i remember cyberpunk edgerunners I want to cry bro

i never got over it

wrong chat

feel free to discuss tho

[warm lance]

https://tenor.com/view/chilling-cyberpunk-edgerunners-rocking-left-and-right-relaxing-sight-seeing-gif-25909275

[lucid lark]

BRO please

dont

[tribal bay]

is this a good strat

sap blind

[lucid lark]

https://tenor.com/view/cyberpunk-cyberpunk-anime-david-cyberpunk-edgerunners-tears-gif-26728517

[warm lance]

Gonna hit you with the 1-2 punch

https://open.spotify.com/track/7mykoq6R3BArsSpNDjFQTm?si=E-wnLNufSVa2yHs53Nrt7g&utm_source=copy-link

[lucid lark]

HAHA EAT SHIT

[tribal bay]

should i always shiv right b4 death mark

[warm lance]

I played the game after watching the series and this song fucked with me hearing it randomly

I gotta do my rogue vault

Maybe today i play sub all day

[lucid lark]

i beat that game like 4 times before the anime came out

now I have to do it again

[tribal bay]

holy shit

should i just be blowing all my defensives CDs at once against DKs and stuff

this is just fucking cooked man

i cant see anything and i die in 2 seconds

[tribal bay]

thanks

anyone have a real answer

[lucid lark]

not much you can do if they have AMS up as sin, cloak and maybe try to hit a fan of knives to maybe cripple some of them and try to get away for a reset. make sure you can't see all of his minions, maybe just abom so you don't get nameplate griefed

[neon slate]

if I do kidney into smoke bomb am i tripping or is it kinda underwhelming

only have time for like 2 globals after the smoke bomb so yah

but mr pika boo says to kidney smoke bomb

[tribal bay]

im just feeling overhwhelmed

[lucid lark]

kidney smokebomb *a target with no defensives left to secure a kill

[warm lance]

Bomb is very good for disruption

[tribal bay]

im not sure how assasssination rogue is meant to be good in such fast games

[neon slate]

'

[tribal bay]

you have 2 DKs both bursting 100k dps

while im what, running around trying to dot people?

[warm lance]

If you land it proper in a kidney the healer has to scramble to get in

[neon slate]

so outlaw rogue can basically just do kidney, bomb, then maybe hidden opportunity proc into between the eyes

[lucid lark]

did you fight like double unholy or something?

[neon slate]

but thats it right lol

not much damage

[tribal bay]

unholy/frost

[warm lance]

Its not the intention of it anyway

[tribal bay]

the dps was me, mage, 2 dk

[warm lance]

You use it at a low hp target to force healer out of position

[neon slate]

what ive been doing in smoke bomb is assuming the healers gonna run at me and just gouging the healer

[warm lance]

With your partner dpsing aswell

[lucid lark]

i dont think there's a rogue on the planet that wouldn't fucking hate that lobby

that sounds like an absolute nightmare

[tribal bay]

well majority of lobbies is DKs, warriors, all that shit

so

what tf am i meant to be doing

by the time ive tried CC'ing the other teams healer the games usually over

[lucid lark]

I mean specifically perma chains, frost burst is crazy, pets everywhere

just sucks

[warm lance]

Dont cc the healer to start with

Cc, peel the dps

Ccing healer when the 2 zug zugs are zugging isnt gonna help much

[tribal bay]

should i be trying to force trinkets from DPS

not healers

[warm lance]

Against that nonsense yes

[tribal bay]

i watched pikas vid and he said sap into blind healers

ok

[lucid lark]

yeah keep healer off DR until higher damp, try to force a trinket/defensive

[warm lance]

Theyll trinket air to get more gcds in

[tribal bay]

so zug zug comps i try and force trinket from the weaker dps?

yeah i do that

on my dk

it works

thats why

[warm lance]

Then you can turn it on them in 29sec with full kidney

[tribal bay]

i was disarming the frost DKs pillar every time

which was good

[warm lance]

Sap into blind healers isnt a 100% every single game kinda thing

[lucid lark]

press feint as often as you can vs cleave like frost and UH too, good value. try not to blow your sprint to break chains unless you really need to

[tribal bay]

but i still lost

[lucid lark]

shutting down pillar, blinding the UH go

That's just such a hard fight with a rough learning curve imo

[tribal bay]

and i feel like i just do no dam

[warm lance]

Unless you have a big burst partner then sap blind to kidney and full burst+bomb on target

[lucid lark]

afaik sin does like no dam before 4set

[warm lance]

Otherwise zug zugs are survive start, turn it around

[tribal bay]

ive got 4 set

[lucid lark]

ah

[tribal bay]

im a pve rogue main

i have mythic tier

but i play sub

not sin

[tribal bay]

so i should just zug basically

against zug zug comps

[lucid lark]

ironically yes

[tribal bay]

blow everything in the opener after forcing a trinket

[lucid lark]

what mmr are you

[warm lance]

Or just read everything i typed

[tribal bay]

makes sense i saw a sin rogue do that in a lobby i was in on my dk

[warm lance]

Not one small snippet of it

[tribal bay]

but the arms warr wasnt leaving his smoke bomb every round

it was fried

[warm lance]

Depends on your partners dmg profile

[tribal bay]

0 i havent played much pvp on my rogue

ironically

i fotm'd into unholy DK instead because its easier to play against zug comps as a zugger

[lucid lark]

all good, yeah at that MMR you're probably doing what I did which was thinking TOO much about counterplay but low mmr is about surviving the first round and making yourself as unviable a kill target as possible in that round, and the lobby will choose not to focus u for the next 5 rounds

[warm lance]

Im currently playing my warr more

[fleet verge]

this strategy works to like 1950 btw

[warm lance]

Cba to sweat my ass off to get +13

[lucid lark]

just turn your brain off and hit your buttons, use defensives appropriately, when you notice the pressure ramp, CC healer and try to rip someone

[fleet verge]

establish dominance by not dying as a rogue and hten no one wants to target you

[dull bridge]

it's %20 damage on your bleeds and bleeds are usually approx half of your damage - so that's around %10 damage

[warm lance]

I focus start in ccing the enemy dps before rotating big def cds

Then cc heal and go for kill on squish

[tribal bay]

i think i need to practice my burst rotation

[lucid lark]

also sap people that run adaptation to ruin their round

[tribal bay]

yeah i have been doing that

cant believe people run that trinket

[fleet verge]

adaption players are braver than the troops

[warm lance]

Theyre just casuals most times

Not knowing what to trinket so they take the easy way out

[fleet verge]

this is why i run insignia

[lucid lark]

i dont even know what to trinket most of the time lmfao

[fleet verge]

"I don't want another trinket to press"

[tribal bay]

yeah

on my dk

i trinket in the opener

with AMS pre popped

so i cant get CC'd

and they cant fuck up my go

[fleet verge]

trinket is an on demand way to get out of a lot of shit

like disarms

to finish a kill

[tribal bay]

ive trinketed so many disarms too

it works way more than it doesnt i swear

[lucid lark]

i trinket disarm more than anything usually on my warrior

[tribal bay]

but i hover around 1800-2k mmr

so those games dont need to make sense

[warm lance]

My warr trinket usage changes so much

[fleet verge]

ill never be a sweaty 2400 queen im too bad at this game

but i can at least act smug at 2k

[warm lance]

Some games I can afford to sit stuff more

But i run war banner most games

[tribal bay]

they die really easy

[lucid lark]

I just for some reason want to become so obnoxiously good with enhance

idk why

[fleet verge]

ngl this seasons tabard is the closest I've ever been to wanting to go 2400

so good

[warm lance]

Im just 1905 rog so i cant even act smug mechanics wise

I havent seen it

[fleet verge]

its at the elite vendor in valdrakken

[warm lance]

Ill check later

[lucid lark]

like she kinda goes hard right

[fleet verge]

love dark irons

[warm lance]

Maybe ill push 2.4 on warr

[fleet verge]

i dont like playing dwarves but i love dwarves

[lucid lark]

my girlfriend is very short and i think this is why i like dwarves

[warm lance]

Im undead on my warr

[fleet verge]

lightforged rogue the hidden meta

[warm lance]

Looks ballin

[fleet verge]

laser beam rogue

[tribal bay]

i want to push on my DK

but i think

my problem is

i zug way too hard as a DK

[fleet verge]

i havent decided if i should try to push 2.4 on my dh or rogue

dh is so easy though..

[tribal bay]

and its becoming a bad habit

[warm lance]

Warrior looks at you:
No bitches?

[tribal bay]

i feel like playing rogue for a bit might give me better awareness

[lucid lark]

no blur?

[fleet verge]

rogue will give you more technical knowledge but its also just a lot of fun to smash buttons as dk/dh

not that much more technical knowledge though

[warm lance]

Dh for easy tabard and wep mogs

[fleet verge]

its tempting

I should probably start soon before DH nerfs come in

[tribal bay]

they arent nerfing DH

[warm lance]

I dont stress about going serious at all

[tribal bay]

its not that good

[fleet verge]

dh is the highest performing dps spec in solo shuffles tho

I think its currently higher than rogue even

[tribal bay]

rogue isnt that high

[lucid lark]

DH still outclasses post buff arms and I think that's absolutely nuts

[tribal bay]

if you mean like the highest rated players at the very top

[warm lance]

Game wide assa is the best melee. Especially organized

[tribal bay]

but 2400 as sin drops off at 150 players

[fleet verge]

yeah but solo shuffle isnt organized, its my special unga bunga place

[tribal bay]

2400 as UHDK/DH is like 200-250

[lucid lark]

i'd say assa is S tier in 3s, but not in RSS

[warm lance]

Sub gets crazy good at higher rates

AWC team comps say all we need to know

[fleet verge]

I think someone took the full data of all leaderboards in RSS and DH has the highest overall score, it includes the top ladder but isnt limited to it

[warm lance]

Only one team didnt have rogue

[fleet verge]

wasn't it 8/10 sin rogues

[warm lance]

Believe so

[tribal bay]

only 38 sub rogues above 2400 on RSS

[warm lance]

Most play assa cause its easier

[fleet verge]

this is from a week ago so its changed slightly

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/630194874595016724/1068705315937325126/yg83wrjp82da1.png?width=1139&height=421

poor frost and outlaw

[warm lance]

Lol

[tribal bay]

frost sucks

thats why

i needs to be fixed

pillar is a shit damage window thats so easy to counter

[fleet verge]

im honestly surprised devoker is so low

every match I see them in around 1800 theyre crazy

[tribal bay]

its a cheese spec

like sub rogue

trying to 1 shot people

[warm lance]

Sub doesnt need to do that at all though

Get that out of your head

[tribal bay]

thats how i win

i tried the other builds

[fleet verge]

sub has the best rogue survivability and consistently high damage windows

[tribal bay]

they were trash

no dam

[warm lance]

Sub is super good

[tribal bay]

swapped to 1 shot secret tech build was going 4-2

so easy

[warm lance]

So much control, good pressure, constant burst windows

[tribal bay]

kidney someone behind a pillar then open on them

cya

[fleet verge]

shadow dance = free cheap shots

[lucid lark]

wait hold on

[warm lance]

If you think sub is only cheese youre hard cope

[fleet verge]

double vanish, shadowstrike buffed by ambush talents

so gud

[lucid lark]

HUMAN shaman GOES HARD????????

[fleet verge]

why are there

why are there..

[tribal bay]

double vanish that shields you for 30% HP

[fleet verge]

double vanish that resets CDs

jeeeeez

[warm lance]

Most high rate dont even run the shield

[tribal bay]

then a talent that heals you for 30% hp over 6 secs whenever you go into shadowdance

[fleet verge]

high rate sub players go The Rot right?

[warm lance]

I see more and more high subs going with dark brew rupture+st

Which SLAPS

[fleet verge]

earlier in the season there was this super degenerate sub build that involved taking every single covenant ability

i hated it

[tribal bay]

is that the 1 shot build

no CDR

CDR build is trash

too many wasted talents on shit

to get there

[warm lance]

Its rupture build

[fleet verge]

the r1 sub player runs CDR build iirc

[tribal bay]

that doesnt mean its good

[warm lance]

Both work

Raz has a good dark brew build hes running at 3.2

[tribal bay]

3.2 what

cr?

[warm lance]

3.2k cr yes

Rank 3 eu

[tribal bay]

is this EU

ah that makes sense

is sub being played in EU more or something

[warm lance]

Eu is where the crazy rogues are at

[tribal bay]

WOW

i just checked the leaderboards

that is pretty nuts

[warm lance]

Indeed

[tribal bay]

the top 92 are all over 2400

the NA sub rogues dont exist

[warm lance]

Sub is very good in the current rss meta cause theyre harder to kill, can still rot decently well, has sec tech for burst and cc

[tribal bay]

is there a sec tech rupture build

with dark brew and gloom blade

[warm lance]

No gloom

[tribal bay]

see

i hate that

unplayable

literally

[warm lance]

Dont need it

[tribal bay]

backstap sucks

its so bad

[warm lance]

You dont deal dmg with it there

Your dmg is ruptures outside of burst

[tribal bay]

true

with finality

ig

big rupture dam

[warm lance]

BUQAAWulQAmRd/c4Iy2r7VOUFAAARJBAAAAAAQIJJJSCEggkISSSSSSSkiIJNkkQSCABAAAA

Raz runs that atm

[lucid lark]

i wish sub was les rot and more like incredibly powerful backstab D&D rogue type shit

[tribal bay]

its meant to be bursty

not rotting with rupture

[lucid lark]

i guess I mean like

[tribal bay]

but blizz want unholy DKs to destroy everyone instead

[lucid lark]

drop the shadow magic component

let it be full send physical

[tribal bay]

nah

i like the ninja theme

its why i play sub

[warm lance]

Its clearly being nudged towards rot with control and strong burst windows

[tribal bay]

when are you meant to echoing with this build

[fleet verge]

this poor shadow priest got 0-6'd so hard he made my rating gain go 0

he died instantly twice and then health swapped me at 5 hp

[tribal bay]

why are shadow priests allowed to health swap us

seems a bit grief

[fleet verge]

its actually a really powerful cd

just not when you use it on the rogue in double cleave

the last round he health swapped the healer and the healer I think health swapped back lmfao

[lucid lark]

saw a shadow health swap a shaman as he was setting down link and the shaman got 1 shot

[tribal bay]

how important is veiltouched

feel like its mid

swap it for gloomblade

[fleet verge]

0 rating game matches hurt though

they hurt worse than - rating

[tribal bay]

0 rating is a win because you got away unscathed

you get to try again for free

[warm lance]

Im not on pc i dont remember this stuff out of my head

[tribal bay]

5% increased magical damage

[fleet verge]

i get to wait 30 mins again for free

[warm lance]

Sounds like a routing point and free 5% dmg to me

[tribal bay]

this is the 1 shot build but with replicating shadows and no 30% shield

i dont mind it

i was trying to find a way to play replicating shadows

but i didnt want to drop shield

ig shield is kinda mid anyway

healer can heal me while im stealthed instead

[warm lance]

Rupture is so good to have

Gonna try to sleep abit. Its 9am

[lucid lark]

@warm lance https://open.spotify.com/track/5xjBjhBgqR9lJguneF01jQ?si=af9a220b7f964f49

[keen portal]

I have been looking online and on youtube and I can't find any updated guides for sin so what is a good universal opener for pvp?

[tribal bay]

guides dont exist

ive asked this question heaps too but good luck getting a straightforward answer

any macro for not blowing both shadowdance charged by accident

[gleaming pawn]

you could try
/cast [stance:0] Shadow Dance

[tribal bay]

all g

it has an ICD

i was tripping

[gleaming pawn]

your opener is fluid depending on a lot of things happening at the time which is why there are no hard and fast rules on them

but in general, if it's melee that can interupt your opener with CC, etc then you open with MFD > Kidney Shot and get your bleeds and SnD up from there. If it's a clothie you can open with garrote and save the stun for a little later

[tribal bay]

how many combo points am i meant to use echoing reprimand?

[gleaming pawn]

What do you mean? You just use it when you’re at low CP and use a finisher when you land on a charged CP

[tribal bay]

thanks

does serated bone spike not work on target dummy?

[gleaming pawn]

No, it gets removed from the pvp dummy

[tribal bay]

cheers

damn bro

its actually crazy

what people at 1k mmr are thinking when im completely controlling every round

they dont even notice what im doing

and like

they just kept defaulting to attacking me

its like bruh im winning every round

you need to attack someone else kek wtf

[sonic peak]

Its better having DTB or DTB/AP without serrated bones spike?( having 4 piece) or switching between both agaisnt melee cleave and caster cleave

[proper heath]

You want Serrated. It's really good.

Literally Bis

[tribal bay]

arterial precision seems good tho

with haemotoxin

would be less to track too

[proper heath]

Sure

give that a try

gl