Essense of Guidance - Rework/Fix

[elder peak]

As we all know, Clemency + Guidance is the bread and butter of pretty much any build. However, it quite literally makes the game trivial besides getting oneshotted by some special attacks before having the chance to build up a barrier.

To tackle both of these things:

How about instead of Guidance providing a continuous barrier, it stores excess healing up to a barrier of X (Increases with quality) and the next cast of the memory triggers the barrier. Maybe give it a certain cooldown so it isn´t spammable.

This way it would make later runs much less trivial + reward skillful usage of the essence and the attached memory to negate big damage spikes.

cheers!

[knotty sun]

Over all I agree with the take that clemency + guidance is usually my go-to combo to make early primus fights sustainable.

Though I think the Issue is not the essence combo itself but the ways sustainability works. Characters cannot solo sustain with just healing or life steal since characters that would profit from it are usually in the realm of getting one shot anyways. Furthermore just using healing doesn't work since the last world and primus's last phase completely negates healing with the 'healing reduced'-mechanic. Players basically HAVE to stack shields in order to survive on a tiny platform that makes dodging large area attacks near impossible.

Instead of adjusting those two essences, they either have to change the healing reduced mechanic and allow debuffs to be cleansed some way shape or form, permanently. Since the actual debuff cleansing right now would only lead to primus re-applying the debuff all together, or give players other options to solo sustain a fight with damage dealing travelers. Shields are a must have at this point of time unless you out damage the boss entirely and skip the doomsday phase. Dodging just isn't rewarding when you can tank the damage with a 100k+ shield, armor isn't rewarding unless you heavily invest in it through ng+ runs, so what is left?

The game lacks self sustainability options, obviously players choose the only one available.

[sharp yarrow]

What if shields didn't decay, but also unable to stack when from the same source? So if you want a higher shield cap, you'd have to equip multiple shield sources or invest more dust. Guidance could then follow OP's suggestion on a scaling shield cap. Same for parry's charged saber.

How to distribute the shield consumption?

Should also take away healing memories' ability to heal on damage immune targets >.>

[shrewd laurel]

this is unrelated to guidance, but you can iframe the delusional debuff in the primus fight! the window is just a little tight

and the debuff does expire eventually, you just have to survive until then

[pliant wyvern]

Guidance should have a cap.

I don't mind if the cap increases with quality, but it should have one.

[shrewd laurel]

depending on what the cap is based off of, it'll either make it useless or not change anything

[pliant wyvern]

I was thinking based off max HP

[shrewd laurel]

things hit so hard that hp is never enough, so gross amounts of barrier is needed to stop one shots

[pliant wyvern]

I didn't think things hit that hard on loop 1

[shrewd laurel]

even with a good amount of armor, I've seen primus hits for 10k

preloop

i don't take max hp from chaos, so my life is going to be low, but i usually have less than 1k life

or just over 1k

[pliant wyvern]

There just aren't that many survivability essences or memories to compare to Guidance

Healing is countered by oneshots and Delusional

But nothing counters shields

[shrewd laurel]

it's guidance, rigidity, or some kind of cdr combo to perma spam a barrier memory

delusional kinda affects shields, or at least guidance, since the shield is based on healing

healing is really just a way to get barrier tbh... player hp is rarely high enough to take hits

unless you're vesper with 3k+ life

[sharp yarrow]

Only real counters to shields are self damaging effects memories/essences that bypass shield or the soft skin curse.

[shrewd laurel]

maybe if barriers couldn't get refreshed, or each instance of barrier received expired at its own time

so you couldn't just super stack it and maintain it

you'd have to ramp your gain rate enough to offset the natural expiration

could also nerf guidance by making it only count healing you do to yourself

currently it also gives barrier for overhealing you do on allies as well

[sharp yarrow]

While non-stacking and non-duration refreshing shields are doable like ice shield. I'm not sure how the game would like it if say someone were to generate 32767 seperate guidance shield instances at every starfall cast.

[turbid pumice]

Skimmed through, but didn't see. Delusional can be cleansed with Mass Cleanse, so the idea that you NEED shields is not accurate.

[shrewd laurel]

it's more of "if i don't have shield, i will get oneshot"

[turbid pumice]

But nothing in this game has a guaranteed attack, which kind of begs the argument "git gud" >_>

[pliant wyvern]

I think healing without shields is meant to be a viable strategy

It's not just "don't get hit ever" or "stack shields"

[jaunty stump]

you can add regeneration to extend shield timer(up to 9 sec)

[turbid pumice]

Is that a bug or a feature?

[shrewd laurel]

feature

the healing from regeneration is small, but it generates shield if you're at full life

because of guidance

which refreshes the duration

[turbid pumice]

Having a better memory IRL would help. Wouldn't have had to ask that, ha ha

[river marlin]

Im not entirely sure what ive read here, but guidance is nowhere near as strong as cube on primus. 75% damage reduction with very little investment and not having to nerf your damage skill with 2 gems that dont actually do damage is wild. Not to mention Primus has an attack that remove your shield no matter what size it is, shield stacking just isnt as reliable as cube whatsoever

[shrewd laurel]

if he removes your shield

you just restack it

[river marlin]

he hits you twice when he removes your shield, the first hit removes it. You can die with no issue under 1k hp with no counterplay

[shrewd laurel]

as nachia with fenrir, i can get an easy 80k shield instantly

preloop

[river marlin]

Nachia is fairly irrelevant anyway, you have 150 armour without trying

pick an actual squishy character wtf

[shrewd laurel]

it's not about how squishy the character is

it's about barrier generation

and she only gets 65 armor??

[river marlin]

there are countermeasures to barrier generation built into the boss

[shrewd laurel]

after using her dash + being near her summons

[river marlin]

she gets armour from ult and from passive dash lol

[shrewd laurel]

oh, serpents

i forgot that gave armor

i'm not a fan of using it

[sharp yarrow]

cube? Or did you mean flexibility.. The damaged reduction can only ever be 20% at most. The rest is debt that must be paid over time.

[turbid pumice]

You say no counterplay without listing examples, then this. I could name Yubar as an "actual squishy", but also say his counter is Tranquility.

[shrewd laurel]

75% dmg reduction also won't save you from a 10k hit anyway

[turbid pumice]

Did you mean eight thousand?

[shrewd laurel]

no

80k is the low end

preloop

looping just a few times i can casually walk around with 80 billion shield

just from fenrir + guidance + ricochet

[river marlin]

Yubar is the squishiest charcter, but he does indeed have countermeasure to ofset this. Nachia is just a stat stick. there is a different.

[river marlin]

Every single relevant build in the game can deal with dot damage from cube, most cannot deal with immediate shield removal followed by a second hit

Most characters can load into white boss with 500 dust and a cube and make it work. The same can not be said of double the dust and a guidance effort

[turbid pumice]

Point is, don't use an argument then agree with people when they point out the opposite

[river marlin]

When did i agree with anything you said

[turbid pumice]

Yubar is squishy and that he has a counter, lol

[river marlin]

You didnt offer an opposite, you offered an invulerability

[turbid pumice]

That's literally a counter to the attack that you said has no counterplay

[sharp yarrow]

I don't think I've ever had my shield deleted either unless it saturated a small shield... Unless I simply dodged it everytime I had large one >.>

[river marlin]

He is still THE SQUISHIEST character, there is a SKILL mthat makes him imune to damage for 0.6 seconds. Nachia is THE TANKIEST character. learn english

[turbid pumice]

Yeah same

[turbid pumice]

You can die with no issue under 1k hp with no counterplay

[river marlin]

Ive been 1 shot through this. Multiple times. There is a shield deletion mechanic on the double swing in phase 3

[turbid pumice]

Is it nightmare only? I haven't played him on nightmare yet

[river marlin]

Think i first encountered it on ominous

[sharp yarrow]

I never play with shield generation that high.. Are you sure it isn't that the guidance shield is just expiring after having for 2s without being triggered?

[turbid pumice]

I don't think I've ever died to him as Vesper

[river marlin]

The ability is on a 0.3 cooldown in the SS

Maybe this one was a .6

[sharp yarrow]

Would be better if you recorded the time of last damage or heal till it disappears.

While only having clemency as the healing source to avoid confusion. I think you have glacial core in that screenshot?

[river marlin]

nope no core

protection is the one that looks similar

[sharp yarrow]

Ah, the other healing is from passive

[river marlin]

I havent recorded or screenshotted much of this game in a month. This was from my first day of dejavu on perhaps 15th sept. Long before understanding most broken stuff 🙂

[turbid pumice]

Okay so, you said you can die when hp is under 1k. Your screenshot shows Vesper with 9k.

[river marlin]

ya he 1 shot me this run

no loop

[turbid pumice]

but that's not under 1k health

[river marlin]

ok?

That means he will 1 shot you under 1k, or 2k whatever threshold you set lol. Perhaps he hits harder based on how much shield he removes

[turbid pumice]

Again, pointing out your quote with things that are not consistent with other things you are saying

[river marlin]

I never figured out that mechanic, but the shield removal exists for sure

1shotting you at 9k is still 1 shotting you at 1k lol

[turbid pumice]

Do you ever run with the fatal damage perk?

[river marlin]

Not on vesper

[turbid pumice]

I've gotten to phase 3 before spending it, so whatever this attack is, I don't think I've seen it

which tells me it's either rare or he does it more often than I notice and that's what's spending my fatal

[river marlin]

There is a chance it was removed in one of the patches. I dont remember being absolutely nuked like this recently. But equally my shields on builds these days tend to be in the 5-20k range not larger and are applied far more frequently than every .6 seconds

[plucky ocean]

Screenshot shows Guidance+Clemency+Faith on Spectral Bullet (1s cooldown) and non-permament setup of the Armor Essence. There is a non-zero % chance that the barrier simply expired and you got hit while the spectral bullet projectile was flying and while the armor essence was deactivated since its active for 3 seconds but has a cooldown of 5 seconds.
(exceptionally unlucky scenario)

And if there's actually an anti-barrier attack, then i think more enemies should have it.
And Delusional should apply a -X% Barrier gain equal to the healing reducing.

I don't think that it should oneshot you with 9000 HP though, unless you got hit by an attack that marked the floor for like 2-3 whole seconds.

I find "git gud" to be fitting against bosses because boss stages are cleaner and their attacks are telegraphed to the point that its really easy to dodge if you know how they work.

I usually just stand nearby without doing much against Primus when playing with friends since i wanna see how well they do on their own. I think i'll do a few runs where i just don't attack the boss until they used all their attacks per phase. A lot of times i feel like they die so fast that you don't even get to see all their attacks :/