gray_decay // Survival Action FPS-Platformer with Gravity Shifting

[coral mirage]

That’s for the more open areas

[royal ember]

i guess rust tends to accumulate a lot more outdoors

so seems fine to me @coral mirage

[coral mirage]

i am still trying to figure out the look for the leg of the megastructure, so I am open for any new ideas

[coral mirage]

its also that the climate is also a lot colder

[coral mirage]

semi unimportant sideroom but i think it is cool
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1150666629290659852/1467593624828252366/image.png?ex=6980f292&is=697fa112&hm=47f59678f8d8d76cec0c5510e1920e2c4399be7301ee2b8f2921ddd08f9ce9d8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=550&height=309

[royal ember]

ssssssssh, it is important okay??

[fiery escarp]

very portal-like i love it

[coral mirage]

Yep, portal and half life are the main inspirations for how the megastructure looks. I have looked at other structures though like Blame’s megastructure and a couple others

[fiery escarp]

hell yeah pretty sure i went on a massive rant about the environmental design here if u wanna explore more portal territory

but tbh you already replied to that and those pics seem to be really great already

[coral mirage]

I am going to add more foliage and some exposed wires, maybe even some desks and chairs to the environment but, obviosely not in any way where it would be problematic to gameplay.

[coral mirage]

Rope/Wire physics have been added, and of course, they work for any gravity direction, where the objects attatched to the ends of the rope/wire can cause the wire to pull in a direction based off the object's gravity and each segment of the rope/wire can change it's gravity direction. The visuals are simple because it is going to be mostly used for electronic cables and, because I like how source engine renders ropes and wires

[coral mirage]

Any idea what the portal artifact should look like?

[royal ember]

maybe you can make the sphere pulsate along with some waves i find the idea of a sphere really distinctive

[coral mirage]

that could be cool, should it be showing the other side maybe through cracks in it's shell?

[royal ember]

prob

[coral mirage]

Improved the artifact and the intro to the escape sequence of levels (a.k.a. collapsing void/parallel domain). Incase the player fails to escape in time, instead of killing them immediately, they will be pursued by an entity (idk what name it is yet but it is going to be something like the interloper or anomaly). This means a second lap through the domain and would be a fun challenge for those who would want to get perfect rankings or something along those lines.
(Time was shortened for demonstration purposes)

that guy lowk jumpscared me

[keen shoal]

what's the flying cube gonna eventually be

oh i didn't read all the text

i feel like the entity that chases you when the time's up should be able to be seen through blocks so it doesn't kill you without warning

[coral mirage]

I did that before but it wasn’t as scary, I might do a compromise where when it is close enough it will have a silhouette

[keen shoal]

Also I feel like that it should have a custom death screen to make it more unique than a regular enemy, maybe an image of its face in the center of a pitch black screen (assuming the entity will be a pitch black void-like entity itself)

[coral mirage]

Yeah, that probably is a good idea especially since there isn’t any checkpoints in the escape sequence.
I might do a times up screen or something like you were deleted/forgotten

[keen shoal]

Would dying to the entity reset the whole level or just to the point right before the escape?

[coral mirage]

I don’t know yet, considering it is an entity that appears if you really take too long in the alternative dimension it should be punishing, so I kinda want to do that (especially if I add a second lap type thing)

[keen shoal]

Also is this inspired by pizza tower

[coral mirage]

Yes

I was planning this a while ago and I thought it could be an interesting way to end levels as it could fit with the nonecludean and gravity shifting environments. If not I will just remove it.

[keen shoal]

Also the entity should definitely shake your screen more the closer you are to it and maybe fade in a grayscale effect the closer you are as well

[coral mirage]

Definitely

[keen shoal]

I feel like the vertices of the entity's model (if it's going to be a model) would shake to make the entity look like it's trying to keep its form the way you see it in-game

[coral mirage]

WIP of the Hunter enemyhttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1150666629290659852/1469818876412821505/IMG_0530.png?ex=69890b00&is=6987b980&hm=117b8c9f320053c1667ec88e9624c4743c413027d80eed7a65d483ee065326c4&

[coral mirage]

gun jamming

[wooden hazel]

the slav squat pose is 🤏 🧑‍🍳 chefs kiss

looks a bit like an enemy youd find in the STALKER universe, i like him a lot

[coral mirage]

I was originally going to give them some kind of uniform or armor but, I thought it would stand out more having more normal-ish clothes. Especially since it would fit more with the aesthetic of the game

[wooden hazel]

yeah nah this is perfect, love it

[coral mirage]

it would also be funny to see the enemies wearing super stylish fits

[wooden hazel]

haha bosses in tracksuits and chains

[coral mirage]

Little did you know that the balkans took over the moons

[coral mirage]

More functional Nailshot Hunter enemy. It is missing a few things mainly it's texture, certain animations (strafing), and it's parry timings but, that will be finished very soon.

[coral mirage]

Small change but, i now made every enemy able to look at their target under certain conditions (like states, if an attack is finished, etc.) It really makes them feel more alive.

[coral mirage]

Hunters' animations and parry times have been (pretty much) completed. i just need to make the texture for the character now.

I will release another test build when the tutorial's remodeling is finished and the Hunter is complete

[coral mirage]

finished model for male and female nailshot hunter counterparts

[coral mirage]

A lot of work has been done on the tutorial section, and it is almost complete (only missing stuff like desks, and chairs, and some more foliage), and the texture, and gibbed model of the Nailshot Hunter has been finished.

[keen shoal]

Do you have plans for a first boss? It'd be interesting if some boss encounters were close to the end of escape sequences, since the escape sequence changes the layout of the area

[coral mirage]

the first boss is most likely going to be more tame than the later boss fights, without any major spoilers, it will be a human character that will test the player's movement and combat abilities that will be able to do most of the movement mechanics the player can. I will add foreshadowing throughout the levels in the prelude leading up to the encounter like them fighting enemies in a room beside the player, or something along those lines.

I think that it would be a waste if not even one of the bosses used the escape sequences against the player and now that you mention it, it would be interesting for the boss (or an alternate version in the collapsing domain) to harrass the player while they try to escape in time.
As the story progresses, the levels will become more warped, gravity shifting might even meet nonecludean rooms and enemies, and areas will become more demented. That means the bosses will be more and more using the collapsing domains, nonecludean geometry, and gravity shifting against the player.

All of this is only possible since most of the things in the game are modular and simplistic (suprisingly) and since the art is relatively simple

[keen shoal]

The nailshot hunters somehow look too friendly. maybe make the eyes smaller or something?

[coral mirage]

is this better, or would it be better not to show any eyes

i slightly modified the visuals again since i didnt really like how plastic-like the characters looked with one of the rim lighting techniques i used but, with that change, i also fixed an issue with the sharp rim lighting part of the shader where i switched the VIEW and NORMAL for the fresnel calculations accidentally

[royal ember]

The eyes are great

[coral mirage]

thanks, I do have some alternate versions of the eyes as well, i just forgot to post them (that are unused)

[keen shoal]

that's better, it looked too cartoony before

[bronze river]

A lot has changed since i last checked😭
How do you do this, i would burn out pretty quickly bruhhh

[coral mirage]

imma be deadass, i have no idea

[coral mirage]

The tutorial is finished being the first polished level I have made for this game. I did this specifically to make it easier for people to actually see the vision of how I want to handle the megastructure (especially in the earlier parts before everything goes insane):

https://youtu.be/LXJIq-wtSXg

[coral mirage]

I have pushed a new update to itch.io where yall can play the fully realised tutorial, and more fleshed out first level. (Level 1 is still a blockout but it's layout for the first sequence is done (unless there is any dire issues from playtesters).

• The nailshot hunter properly is introduced in the update (meaning full model, animations, attacks, etc, etc.)
• The Husk and Folly were improved
• Movement fixes, physics fixes, and optimizations have been made
• Saving progress has been fully added
• Visual updates have been made

I would like your feedback on how the first level plays out, if the balancing of aggression and defense is good, if it is stylish enough, and your opinions on the escape sequence for each level (even though the escape sequence hasn't been fully implemented for the first level)

[royal ember]

nice stuff

[coral mirage]

fixed the moss foliage transparency, reduced broken doors count on certain rooms, and altered some room layouts to be less "confusing" to not lure players to go the wrong way

[coral mirage]

Doors have been redesigned to be more obvious if they are enterable or not, landing at high speeds now makes a slam sound instead of the normal landing, and more foliage updates have been made where there is now lore. to plants.

The moss works in a symbiotic relationship with the grass where the moss grows more on the missing tiles and then the grass can grow on within it (since it is bushy) and produce nutrients that that the moss taxes a portion of. Both the moss and grass can survive in the colder temperatures of the megastructure due to their adaptations over time, and grow more around blue lighting (like normal plants).
This was definitely the most important feature.

[coral mirage]

I released a patch, with the new fixes, once the first level is done, i will add a speedrunning timer
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev password : 333

[coral mirage]

Making the escape sequence has brought up a few issues. Although I am (somewhat) sure that it could work, I feel that the stark contrast between the main gameplay loop (enter a room -> fight enemies / platform / solve puzzle -> go to next room with the strategic combat (more with the newer enemies not the Husk and Folly)), and the escape sequence's faster paced platforming, whole different layout for the level so it can work with going backwards, and tension with the time limit is too much of a switch up in gameplay (Specifically combat will not really be compatible in later parts where enemies will be much smarter and will swiss cheese you easily if you mess up).
I also think it is going to drag out level making and length a lot.
The issues don't end just with gameplay complexity, but I can't figure out a really sensible way to explain why the player would ever need to destroy the artifacts to unlock the exit of the level.

I might implement an escape sequence thing for boss fights but, even then this could make the gameplay loop / identity more convoluted, especially with the fact that as the game progresses the platforming, puzzles, and combat will get increasingly more like the escape sequence (in essence/pace, not that i will put a timer in each level that will kill you (unless it could work somehow but, prob not)). I could also just simplify it by making just an escape back to the start of the level, and just alter the existing level to be able to do such a thing, just blocking off doors specific for the sequence, but that also would have some issues but, it would make more sense that pocket dimensions.

The player already has to complete the level under a certain amount of time, not die once, have a high score, and collect all secrets to get a perfect ranking in the level (at least thats what i plan for), so I am unsure for now how I will progress with that sequence.

[keen shoal]

I feel like there should be faster-paced music for escape sequences

[coral mirage]

I am scrapping the pocket dimension thing but I am going to now test out having the end at the start of the level.
Its going to be an elevator shaft/safe room, that the player will enter end go up in (akin to left for dead and portal).
Since the elevator exit will be blocked, the player will have to unblock it then escape, since it will alert the anomaly or something like that.

[coral mirage]

wip idea for how levels end (missing results screen). The artifact now blocks the exit, and upon it being destroyed, it will unlock the exit so the player can go up to the next level (since they are climbing a megastructure).
The level exit will be near the start of the level to fit the escape sequence and is separate from the level entrance

The level exits will change their look depending on the environment, meaning throughout each part of the game, the exits/entrances will look different and fit the theme of the part

[coral mirage]

more progress on the level exit. I have finally implemented a ranking display to track the time, total rank, and if it is a perfect run, and added a barebones results screen that will need major work.

I am still unsure about the elevator based exits since it is similar to portal but, i can still change things up.
I also have to do a lot of work with the escape sequence to get it how I want it, specifically making the second lap portal, making the model for the anomaly, etc. And I also have to make the pretty model of the exit gate/elevator, with moving doors, an actual elevator instead of a block, and an entrance gate for future levels.

I think I also need to rework the UI/HUD. Although it is functional, it is pretty ugly and plain. I do want to keep it straightforward, clean, simple, and nonintrusive but I don't really have any ideas for the design.

[keen shoal]

i have an idea for how the artifact would fit better in with the design of the megastructure

you could have it be inside a glass case that breaks along with the artifact when you hit it

also destroying the artifact could definitely open previously inaccessible doors and close other previously accessible ones to open a new path to the exit, kinda like how the john blocks work in pizza tower

that way you can actually see what's behind some of those malfunctioning/locked doors you see throughout the levels

[coral mirage]

Good idea

[coral mirage]

I am now going to have to redo the level layout to reduce jank, fit more with the megastructure design for the first part, and also work for escaping the level, since the one in the test build has some major flaws so the next playtest update will probably take a bit

[gritty python]

how the hell do u make such good uvs aka textures that allign with pixel art

[coral mirage]

i unwrap the uvs of the character using smart uvunwrapping and try to re-unwrap certain uvs to simplify it, and make texturing easier. With the simpler uvs, i can scale up the entire unwrapped, and now compressed uvs to be a larger size making texturing easier, getting high(er), detail and make keeping all the pixels of the texture looking unwrapped. I'm not perfect with it yet but, it gets the job done.

(Example of my unwrapped uvs from the Nailshot Hunter enemy)

[gritty python]

everything with smart uvunwrapping bc ive been doing it with the cube one

[coral mirage]

cube unwrapping is good for levels (at least i use it for that) but not for characters. characters generally are too complex for it to work cleanly especially if your models are in the 1k-3k triangle area like mine or even above that.

[gritty python]

maybe try trenchbroom when u need to unwrap the map

[coral mirage]

my game is too gimicky, and i like the freedom of blender

[gritty python]

alr

[coral mirage]

learning trenchbroom sufficiently enough for making the types of levels i want to make will also take a lot of time especially since levels are segmented into rooms, for optimizations and ordering

[gritty python]

okay

btw what proportions do u use if i could ask

[coral mirage]

for what

[gritty python]

like the unwrapping

[coral mirage]

default config

[coral mirage]

Made some major changes to the gui.
I also realized that i need to add more sounds to the human enemies, since i forgot i just copy-pasted the same sounds from the Husk/Folly to the humans

[coral mirage]

More progress has been made for the escape event, a functional second lap has been added and the only thing i am missing for perfect rankings is adding secrets that the player must find through the level which they need to find every secret to perfect the level.
Movement has also gotten an important update where you can now dropkick and groundslam out of a wallrun. (I think) it feels a lot better than before since there was no other way to get out of a wallrun other than landing, jumping out of it, or moving away from the wall.

[raw yoke]

when did you start development?

[coral mirage]

roughly 6 months ago. It was embarrasingly very ultrakill in the early versions.

this is the oldest video i have of it, from a early prototype

some other prototype things as well

[royal ember]

There is always something really charming on old game versions...

I cant describe it

[coral mirage]

simplicity?

[royal ember]

Probably

And the lack of appealingness aswell

It is humble

And real

No perverse engineering behind

Good game also

I sadly cant play the builds anytime soon, but I will

[coral mirage]

I appreciate it

I almost feel an odd sense of nostalgia for it even though it has been only existing for half a year. Comparing some of the older versions makes me cringe a bit because of how janky and jarring it looks and feels but I also find it fascinating to see how unfinished the older versions were compared to the current unfinished version of this

[royal ember]

Yea

I dont know but it has something unique

I can tell when I see a game like that

And you being afraid of how closed It was to ultrakill at the start is also a great thing

You seek uniqueness

soul?*

[coral mirage]

Maybe, I like the idea of pushing gaming and other mediums forward with my projects

[royal ember]

As it always should be

[gritty python]

btw how do you make the textures

they`re cool

[coral mirage]

blender + aseprite

i use blender for characters and aseprite for tiling textures

[raw yoke]

Is the blender to aseprite pipline simple?

[coral mirage]

I would assume, it’s just a sprite editor, has all the key features like drawing, filling, shapes, blending, etc

[raw yoke]

i mean like is it easy to uv unwrap the characters and texture in aseprite?

[coral mirage]

I think it is easier to make the textures for character/prop models in blender since you can see the UV mapping compared to using aseprite to make the texture. I just use aseprite for making the tileable textures that is used for level geometry

[raw yoke]

ooooo i see

[keen shoal]

It fits so well with the theme of the game now

Also I feel like the second lap should have the chasing entity immediately appear regardless of time when it starts, the entity could also maybe gain speed more quickly the faster you're moving, with the catch of being able to be parried to knock it back and reset its speed to base speed

[coral mirage]

i disagree with making the entity appear automatically once lap 2 starts. Since the escape sequence will have enemy arenas that will lock the player in and make them have to clear it fast, I think the amount of time most players will have by the time they start the second lap is on the edge of running out. The entity also is more of a semi-punishment for failing to escape in time and also a last chance for the player to escape the level with a perfect where it is much faster than the player but, has poor movement control (at least to the extent where the player can barely break it's ankles).
I was already thinking of playing around with the idea of shooting the entity to make it move back or slow down for a short amount of time but, I kinda think that would take away from it being some kind of divine punishment (this is not lore) for the player being too slow.

[keen shoal]

that is a good point.

although, a simple workaround for the enemy rooms preventing you from running away from the entity in lap 2 is that you've killed the enemies already in lap 1, meaning they aren't in lap 2

[coral mirage]

That’s why I can spawn them in, maybe through mini portals like the one the artifact tried to make but didn’t fully complete

[raw yoke]

what is your animation solution? do you have a custom animation player or just anim tree stuff?

[coral mirage]

i use a blend trees

they are more versatile/manipulatable than animation state machines and cleaner as well.

[coral mirage]

Revamped intro for the Nailshot Revolver

[royal ember]

Good shit man

[coral mirage]

minor update, i messed up the texture on the walls in the vid, I only noticed it afterwards but it is fixed now

[coral mirage]

new title screen scene for part 1, I want to keep it more mysterious so the outside of the megastructure doesn't get spoiled yet...

[hollow ginkgo]

that is incredibly dark

you should implement some sort of ground lighting so that the player is drawn to a much brighter light on the gun

also it feels a bit weird to have the perfectly bright hud and the dark scenery at the same time

[coral mirage]

dw i already fixed that, it was darker due to my visibility being better on my main pc monitor

when i tested it on my laptop, i realized it was extremely dark

[hollow ginkgo]

ah yeah

good to hear! you gotta account for the worst monitors imaginable

[coral mirage]

most definetely

[keen shoal]

i don't think FOV should affect the title screen

[coral mirage]

Fine

[bronze river]

Bruh, ultrakill copying you, i cant belive it

[coral mirage]

i know, how dare they...
the portals were cool as hell tho, i might steal some of their techniques that they used for their portal transitions for my gravity transitions like in 8-2 with the turning hallway before the sideways office room

i guess i have to add portals into my game now in retaliation

[bronze river]

the third level was too much😭

also the boss in that layer was kinda dissapointing

[coral mirage]

real shi

[bronze river]

but mewgenics is out, so its all good

[coral mirage]

i thought the air controls in 8-4 were awkward

[bronze river]

they werent really akward, but it was a gimmik

i tough it was really easy

first tried it, and was dissapointed, but the new enemis and normal levels were great

[coral mirage]

i liked 8-2 and 3 the most out of the normal levels (but i don't think that is super controversial)

especially the music

[bronze river]

the music was awsome

the 8-3 was a bit out of place

with the space astetic

but the wait was worth it

[coral mirage]

yeah, i was confused, i was seeing in noclip how the levels work, and i am unsure if they were using portals in that segment or they were doing something like my game but, overall it was cool

Edit: it is portals plus gravity shifting like my game but it seems to be more basic than what I am doing

[coral mirage]

what a nice ledge to view all the zombies below me...

[coral mirage]

Major improvements have been made to the physics of the player and entities, the gravity fields are less janky now and have now the capability of being a point based field and can be cylindrical as well.
Stair functionality has been added to the player and enemies which makes level design easier (i don't have to make a separate collision mesh)
The husk has a working leap tackle which makes them less pathetic than they used to be as now they can hit the player mid air or when they are on a higher elevation compared to them.

Also extra camera logic has been implemented so that changing gravity directions is less awkward specifically so that the player can shoot enemies while changing gravity directions without the camera rotating away (unless it is rotating too much)

[keen shoal]

but filths have a tackle on brutal in ultrakill

[keen shoal]

Also I have some concept art for an enemy

It'd definitely be a big enemy

Definitely taller than the current 3 enemies that you have made

It could shoot laser beams at you and maybe melee you backwards with the cannon if you get too close

[coral mirage]

They only do the jump to reach the player, I don’t think this is a revolutionary attack that ultrakill has plus the way I am doing it is more of a platforming move for the Husk rather than a full attack

[coral mirage]

Could be a great abomination enemy

[keen shoal]

You could make them climb walls if possible and jump if climbing won't work

[coral mirage]

I was testing that out before but it was super janky so for the video I disabled it

it was more if they can’t reach the player they jump over a gap like a fast zombie from hl2

[keen shoal]

Also I feel like the mutated third arm stub thing would basically just do nothing but have ragdoll physics

An alternative to having it shoot lasers could also be to have it shoot bursts of explosive projectiles

[coral mirage]

It would be evil if I made all arms attack the player, imagine the third mini arm grabbing the player and the laser arm shooting at them 😭

[keen shoal]

The third arm doesn't even have a working hand though

It's a stub with spikes

[coral mirage]

It would be funny though if it could grapple

[keen shoal]

Yeah it would be

[coral mirage]

I will draw out a cleaner design of it and make it fit with the Husk and Folly since I think it is a good concept for the third abomination enemy

[keen shoal]

It could maybe be a boss that becomes a regular enemy

Kinda like Cerberus or Maurice in ultrakill

[keen shoal]

Do you think you could make it so the arm's long enough to scrape against the ground

[coral mirage]

Which one

[keen shoal]

The cannon arm, although now that I think about it the enemy could just slouch to achieve that effect

[coral mirage]

I don’t think I would make it a mini boss enemy turned standard enemy,
I am introducing the NS Hunter as a mini boss turned enemy, I want to make one of the machine enemies one middle of the first part and I have the human boss at the very end of the part
That would make 3 boss fights for the very first part

[keen shoal]

Ah ok

Also, just so you know, these spikes are a part of the cannon

[coral mirage]

No problem

I am also going to make a credits/special thanks part of the main menu now since I am not fully doing everything solo now so, any help in art and music, or play-testing(for this prototype state of the game) will be noted

[coral mirage]

@keen shoal

They now have markings of hands and other appendages from other entities, as well as fingers protruding out of their arms while still being related to Follys and Husks

[keen shoal]

i feel like the enemy should have longer legs to show more mutation and to be taller

the cannon arm should also definitely be a bit larger, enough to drag against the ground when the enemy slouches

my concept art was aiming towards making the enemy look fairly tanky as well

other than all that the design's amazing

[coral mirage]

I drew this size comparison sketch for the abominations in the style more along with the actual game’s artstyle which I think makes it look better.

[hollow ginkgo]

Is each enemy supposed to be a variant of the same human base?

I feel like the game’s readability benefit on having wildly distinct designs for each enemy type (ie wildly different sizes and proportionality)

I was thinking about how melee characters like quake’s dogs and ultrakill’s husks both are immediately readable as melee only due to their character designs (on all fours and no arms respectively)

Giving the husk’s a pose similar to drifter from deadlock with the hunched over stance and longer claws than the rest would communicate this better at a glance

also conside giving them side swipe attacks rather than the downwards slam, which I imagine a shockwave enemy would use

[coral mirage]

I am going somewhat off a species type system for character enemies,
I have already made many differences between their designs for instance color, height, animation behavior expression, proportions and more but, if it is too little I can make them look less related

[coral mirage]

of the 2 zombie enemies i have already made (for abominations faction), the Husk (melee) zombie is more human than the Folly and Grafter, it is a failed mutated humanoid entity that still has somewhat of it's mind left, so when they are idle, they are in a weeping pose due to their circumstances (shedding their skin, body warping, losing their humanity). They attack desperately due to their hunger, which is (hopefully) shown in their animations.
The Folly (Projectile zombie) is one of the outcomes from the mutations where they can synthesize projectile masses which they shoot at their targets, the limbs are much more animalistic, they are growing a new skin, and one of their hands have been replaced with a hand specialized for projectile creation. Follys attack from a distance but aren't cowards, if their target gets too close, they will retaliate with melee attacks

i am going to alter the Husk's texture to make it cleaner though

[keen shoal]

at this point they feel very (almost too) similar to each other, and three enemies that basically look the same

is not that great to sightread

which is why i made my version of the grafted's design look more like a tank

[coral mirage]

fair enough, i could exaggerate the limbs more, making the folly's legs longer, allong with making the grafter's more tanky

[keen shoal]

my idea was also to have the grafted be fairly large to fit its tankyness, something like this

cause we've yet to have an enemy that towers over you

[coral mirage]

the folly is 2.25m tall, that would be over 3m tall

[keen shoal]

ok maybe a little less tall

but still taller than the folly

[coral mirage]

probably i would make it around 2.5m tall

make it's shoulders more broad as well

[keen shoal]

yeah, it also definitely shouldn't look as thin as the other two

[coral mirage]

is this a better silhouette of the folly

[keen shoal]

yeah

[coral mirage]

its legs are a bit longer and the torso is smaller

[coral mirage]

are they more distinct from one another even at a distance

[hollow ginkgo]

imo they look the same while doing the squint test

[coral mirage]

have any ideas to make them much more distinct, other than proportion changes?

[hollow ginkgo]

I think the folly should have a more upright moving animation than the husk (hunched)

at least a head heights difference

[coral mirage]

it does already, i am going to make the husk more hunched over in it's run cycle

[hollow ginkgo]

they look like they have the same height in the second image

[coral mirage]

i was crouching

[hollow ginkgo]

ah

[coral mirage]

also high fov

[hollow ginkgo]

Still each enemy should be immediately recognizable at all possible angles and distances

[coral mirage]

ofc

[hollow ginkgo]

You should maybe mess around with different color palettes for each type

or color code different types of enemies

[coral mirage]

yeah, i am going to give the husk more skin and make it's grayish blue/green color more stand out.
Just made the folly's run cycle amore upright than it was before

[hollow ginkgo]

looks good!

also consider adding some type of glow to enemies / their attacks

or light

like you could have the husk claws glint / shine

or their bones

[coral mirage]

i was planning on using some kind of trail effect for swipes and slashes

[hollow ginkgo]

ooooh

[coral mirage]

made the husk nor much more slouched with it's run cycle

[bronze river]

How do you have the time to do all of this😭😭😭

[coral mirage]

I don’t, I am juggling my studying for exams and other stuff

[keen shoal]

gray decay full game tomorrow trust

[coral mirage]

Development will be greatly slowed down for the next 2 months due to me having to focus on my final exams.
I will still try to post updates weekly (maybe every Saturday or Sunday) but, since I would like to graduate, I can't promise it.

Best case scenario, I will be able to finish the first level entirely in less than a month (because of many revamps and changes) but, more likely, it will take a bit longer than that.
I will try to post an update later (about the game).

[coral mirage]

No video clips for today but, more progress has been made on the level where I have planned out a better/more balanced version of the first level that will have a good amount of platforming and combat.

Also major thanks to @tidal imp for revamping the Husk's model as well as working on some of the props for the levels

Side by side comparison between the 2 versions

[royal ember]

I would fuse those two If I were you, I think both have some really unique and great traits

Unless both be appearing on game

Then I'd stitch my mouth again

[coral mirage]

I’ll try to make the mouth more like the original but, 99% of the features of the previous version of the husk are on the new version, it just doesn’t look as janky as before

[coral mirage]

some WIP screenshots of the exterior of a megastructure building pillar

[bronze river]

this looks sick!

[coral mirage]

thank you

[hollow ginkgo]

I think you need to get some fog models / particles

without anything to gage distance with it doesn’t look endless

Portal 2 and white knuckle both do a good job at this

relatively short distance fog (like you have here) can work well when either in the dark or with more detailed areas

portal 2 has both examples of long and short range fog

[coral mirage]

like i said, this was a wip screenshot, I am going to add building models in the distance once i finish the full layout of it.

[hollow ginkgo]

yippie!

[coral mirage]

there will be an update today, trust

[coral mirage]

More progress has been made on the 4th room, the layout is complete but, it is still missing more props, and is a bit buggy.

also the first room is more polished now

also, in case anyone wants to see whats further along the pillar, i made a funny thing

[keen shoal]

the door in this picture could be one of the doors that opens during the escape

it'd be the exit of one of the rooms that you can only access during the escape

also do you have a style of music that you think would fit the game yet?

[coral mirage]

It can’t the platforming part makes this room a one way spot. So that means the next room will have the escape sequence door

[coral mirage]

I honestly don’t know yet.
I know that as the player progresses the music gets more chaotic and demented, mirroring the levels becoming increasingly nonsensical but, otherwise I don’t mind experimentation as long as it fits the themes of the levels/characters/area.

I just don’t want some generic fps music, it needs to be memorable and catchy while still expressing the themes.

All I know is that chapter 1 has a mysterious, isolated and surreal tone, the player feels powerful but tense as well.

And for the escape sequence, the tension is very high, and everything is chaotic

[raw yoke]

A sequence where you have to do multiple wall runs while parrying enemy attacks would be cool

[coral mirage]

Maybe in a future level

[manic trench]

I thought it was Portal 2 for a second

[coral mirage]

ill take that as a compliment

[coral mirage]

small update but, i have added more props to tutorial to make it feel more interactive and lived in. Some rooms dont have many props but, that is mostly for transitional areas like hallways.

[bronze river]

really cool design, guessing insp from portal 2

[coral mirage]

kinda but not really. it isn't really a research facility, it is just this part of the megastructure has a lot of office spaces.
The first part takes place between office like spaces, construction areas, and silos for foliage

most of the stuff is used by the remaining populations for communication and/or containment of certain entities

[coral mirage]

i just like how half-life and portal handle environments via having interactable props.

[coral mirage]

Since every physics object except ragdolls (for optimizations) are interactable by the player, it was a bit weird that the ceiling debris just faded out. So I fixed it

[hollow ginkgo]

LOL

consider having spotlights pointing at the ceiling instead of the ground to direct attention upwards

[coral mirage]

i'll test it out

nvm i got a better idea

[hollow ginkgo]

directing the player’s attention is always the hardest part of level design

[coral mirage]

i think this may be more interesting

[hollow ginkgo]

yeah particle effects are just as important as light, if not more for directing attention

[fiery escarp]

yo your game is starting to look sick

really polishing it

[coral mirage]

I redid room 4 so that it uses more of the gravity shifting and also lowering the difficulty of chaining multiple fast wall jumps, it is still missing a couple things but, is so much more interesting to look at now

i also gotta lowk fix the ambience transition handler

[past fog]

Is that ultrakill 2

[coral mirage]

ofc bro

[past fog]

bro why so aggressive, not saying your game is bad...

[coral mirage]

mb i didnt mean it that harsh 😭

[past fog]

oh ok, anyway, game looks cool so far yes, it is just really reminded me ultrakill, especially at the start of the video (the health bar and stamina bar) and as well the text

good luck bro

[past fog]

by the text i mean the one in bottom middle

[coral mirage]

Yeah, dw a lot of the art specifically Hud and characters are getting remodeled/redesigned

[past fog]

ohh alright, good luck with that :D

[coral mirage]

appreciate it

[viral spade]

@coral mirage i was wondering what level editor you using, trenchbroom or hammer++?

or are you going raw style and just using the godot editor

[coral mirage]

I use blender in a setup akin to hammer: 4 windows split up for freecam, xz, xy, and yz with also the uv editor on the side

And then I use the godot editor for entities

[coral mirage]

on the topic of revamping art, the cursed generator has been redesigned (thanks @tidal imp) to stick out and fit better with the style and themes of the game. The image beside it was what the old temp version looked like.

I also gotta give a model and custom death event for the interloper

[coral mirage]

better hud or nah

[keen shoal]

There's 100% gonna be a speed run for pushing the fan off the ledge

Oh that's a lamp

[coral mirage]

there is actually a weird glitch that i have no idea how to fix, basically when the player groundslams, they can catch themselves on a ledge. That was intentional BUT, in some cases, if the player is on a really thin ledge, they player will immediately fall off again. If you time it near perfectly, you can dropkick off the wall and use the collective speed from the groundslam that was repurposed for the ledge vault to do a super dropkick that will ricochet the player at their top speed

wait nvm i just explained the way i could fix it. I am still gonna keep it tho

[keen shoal]

A glitch? I call that movement tech

We have slam storage now

[coral mirage]

*vault storage

[keen shoal]

People are going to start beating levels in seconds

[coral mirage]

i hope not 😭

[keen shoal]

We love frame-perfect tech here

[coral mirage]

i have only been able to do it twice

[coral mirage]

Since the level is going to take a while, I decided to make the shotgun weapon (design currently not finished yet). For now there is only the primary attack and the placeholder model (ns revolver) but, I think the weapon is very interesting so far.

The primary attack is a normal buckshot blast that shoots 9 pellets that deal 3 damage each. There is no projectile boosting in the way most people would think. Since the melee attack is a defensive move that destroys projectiles (for health), and the shotgun uses projectiles for it's primary attack, there is no interaction currently with the shovel BUT, I think i made something pretty unique for tech. Since the player can also dropkick projectiles to return to sender, projectile boosting works with the added effect of the ricochet from the dropkick meaning that the player can technically pogo off their shotgun blasts to keep themselves in air for a longer time.

The weapon is pretty unbalanced right now so if you have any ideas for tweaks like more stamina lost for boosting the projectile or something like that, that would be greatly appreciated.

Also, the alternate attack will be a slug-shot attack that will blast the player and enemies away if they are close to the impact (unless there is a better idea) and I will be adding a weapon freshness system that lowers ammo given the more you use the same weapon.

[keen shoal]

Will there be very many mechanical/robotic enemies

[coral mirage]

Yeah

[past fog]

Just noticed, we will parry with legs??

[coral mirage]

The player can manage attacks in two ways, either melee attacking with their shovel or using their dropkick move as an attack, the melee attacking is used as a defensive/healing move. The melee weapon can heal the player upon:

• melee killing an enemy (12 hp)
• destroying a projectile (16 hp)
• parrying an enemy (20 hp)

Since the melee won’t return to sender since it is a defensive move, the dropkick has a second purpose other than for movement, upon kicking a projectile, it deflects it in the direction the player is facing while ricocheting the player away due to the movement logic. This is purely offensive (you don’t heal) and is very risky with enemies that have ranged attacks as they could pelt you while you try to perform this.

[past fog]

ohhh

[coral mirage]

I hope this isn’t too convoluted

[hollow ginkgo]

Is there an easy way to aim and deflect projectiles?

It sounds like the kick can only be used at awkward angles considering the jump height

I can’t tell from the gameplay you have if it’s easy to control non-shotgun parries

I would suggest to make it like ultrakill jackhammer parries where you can redirect for like half a second if you’re quick enough

[hollow ginkgo]

oh yeah that’s sick, bloodthief has that as a movement mechanic

[coral mirage]

i will make a video showing how it works so far with different enemies

[hollow ginkgo]

yippie!

[coral mirage]

just give me 5-10 minutes and i will send it

[coral mirage]

@hollow ginkgo You can immediately upon jumping, enter the dropkick state allowing for the parry to be performed near instantaneously (which is good for cramped spaces). There is also a 0.25 second freezeframe to redirect your parry (which i might increase)

all you need is have a semi decent amount of skill of tracking where the enemy is and a reaction time between 200ms to 250ms.

[hollow ginkgo]

holy shit sphere gameplay

[hollow ginkgo]

PEAK!!

[coral mirage]

yeah, the gravity works for spheres, cylinders, boxes, and for any surface "omni mode"

[hollow ginkgo]

does it pull from the surface normals

[coral mirage]

i found it yesterday where you can boost yourself with the dropkick AND the explosion, its so peak

[coral mirage]

only for surface mode

[hollow ginkgo]

ooooh okay

this is so dope

[coral mirage]

i still have to balance the shotgun so that the player cannot evaporate all healthbars. Some nerfs have been made already like lower ammo given, slow shoot cooldown, 14 degree spread. I think the shotgun will be more of a movement weapon in some aspects

[hollow ginkgo]

imo the shotgun shouldn’t be built around a niche mechanic that only ultrakill players are gonna even attempt

[coral mirage]

it isnt

[coral mirage]

that isn't my philosophy of how i am making weapons. Casual audience is always the top of my priorities. The shotgun's main mechanic is to handle lots of enemies that are attacking you at once where it's main attack can hit multiple at the same time while the alt attack is a precision based slugshot that can pierces through enemies (at least the concept is that).

I think it is would be fun to see how people use the weapon.

[hollow ginkgo]

oooh thats cool

[coral mirage]

you think i should add shotgun parrying, or is that too ultrakill?

[hollow ginkgo]

I think shotgun parrying in ultrakill works because it is already designed to be an explosive weapon (blue and green alt fires) so it doesn’t feel like it’s overstepping it’s bounds

the shotgun here doesn’t have any explosive functionality so it feels odd

[coral mirage]

true that

i mean, i am intending to make it so if you shoot the slug, you can make it explode but, thats a whole other thing

it would also make the whole healing system more complicated as well since healing is done by the melee weapon

[hollow ginkgo]

would the slug be a projectile?

also for melee healing, it’s probably best to make it so self generated projectiles don’t heal

[coral mirage]

i am unsure yet, i was even thinking about making the buckshot pellets raycasts but, that changed due to the funny movement tech with it. Also you cannot heal off your own projectiles

thats why i am trying to figure out an interaction with the projectiles you can do with your shovel since i think it is a bit weird that you can only interact with the shotgun pellets with your legs

this is how the shotgun is actually intended to be used (minus the skip i did for the platforming segment, and how it lacks the slugshot).

[hollow ginkgo]

omg the stairs

that made me laugh

[coral mirage]

its because the player is falling for a frame, so i prolly need to fix that

[hollow ginkgo]

yeah this looks good

also for ammo, does parrying give you +5?

[coral mirage]

no, ammo is given by how stylish a move is. Going from gray, white, blue, green, yellow, red, and finally purple

It goes like this for the current weapons

           | NS Revolver | Shotgun

Purple | +3 | +2
Red | +3 | +2
Yellow | +2 | +1
Green | +2 | +1
Blue | +1 | +1
White | +1 | + 1
Gray | +0 | +0

[hollow ginkgo]

ahh okay

so a player using their entire move set doesn’t have to worry about ammo

[coral mirage]

yes

as long as they are using their moveset and weapons, they will not have to worry much about ammo

[hollow ginkgo]

does it give ammo across the board or only to the current weapon ?

[coral mirage]

all across the board but I am adding a weapon freshness thing so that the more you use the same weapon, the less ammo you get for that one while equipped

[hollow ginkgo]

dope!!

Yeah this is likely the best way to incentivize weapon switching

[coral mirage]

Its difficult finding a balance between the resource management, and fun gameplay but, I am confident it will work

btw, the folly has been redesigned (remade by @tidal imp)

[keen shoal]

I have an idea for one of the robotic enemies.
I think i've talked about it before, but it'd be a flying drone-like enemy that'd try to do a dash attack to deal contact damage. The dash would be eased in and out to make it look like the enemy's accelerating and decelerating using thrusters

The only way to stun it would be baiting it into dashing into a wall or floor

Also I had the idea that the nailshot hunter enemies could try to dive out of the way of explosive projectiles if they're within a certain distance of them

[coral mirage]

Yeah, humans and machines will have common sense in this game, so they will try to avoid attacks, hazards, and certain other things

[hollow ginkgo]

reminds me of the hl2 drones

good pick

I think more enemies and mechanics should make use of the of the gravity mechanics

Something like quake’s fiends that run and jump at you from other gravity levels (ceiling / wall) would be sick

[coral mirage]

The Husk can jump but I haven’t fully made it able to platform since it is only used as an attack rn

[coral mirage]

I like that idea

[keen shoal]

the drone enemy would also follow the orientation of your gravity so it's always facing the correct way when it's attacking you

[coral mirage]

once i get there, i will try to figure that out

[coral mirage]

Idea: since secrets are mandatory to perfect levels, they should give buffs kinda like risk of rain, so stuff like speed increase, extra damage, faster fire rate, and stuff but it goes away upon dying or completing/exiting the level

[coral mirage]

I made these portraits of the enemies that will appear in the first part (minus the human and robot boss since I don’t have their designs yet)

The drone’s design is inspired by the wasteland scanners from the hl2 beta

[hollow ginkgo]

Secrets are a good way to introduce future content early, maybe you can do timed buffs that will appear on the main route in future levels

Straight up stat boosts are kind of boring

the best and most memorable powerups are the ones that use the same systems but fundamentally change how the player interacts with them

like instead of a straight up damage increase do a split shot where the player shoots 3x in a cone

depending on how you want to do weapon spawns you can also hide weapons like quake does

or just have it be like ultrakill where you keep them forever

[coral mirage]

weapons are kept after they get picked up

[coral mirage]

Although a bit janky still and missing textures/model/animations/sfx/particles, the shotgun now has both attacks.

The slugshot attack is the new secondary attack to the shotgun where the player shoots out a slug projectile that slams into enemies.
Although the damage isn't as potentially great at first compared to the nailshot revolver, the slugshot is more versatile than the nailshot triple shot.
The main features of the slug is

• The player can kick it, making the slug break upon next collision but increases slug damage by 10 and giving themselves a huge amount of height/distance
• The player can juggle, increasing the damage by a factor of 1.05 times each juggle (also resets collisions before break)
• The player can shoot it (causes explosion, like pellet kick)
• Every time it hits an enemy, it bounces up and can fall onto other enemies around.

Since the weapon pool will be quite small with no alternate weapons or anything, I want to make the weapons as interactable as possible (to a sensible degree at least), and I have been trying to keep the weapons balanced in the way where tactical/strategic combat benefits over running at the enemy head on (since i want this to be stand out in a way)

And yes the juggle, and kick will not be picked up that easily at first by a more casual/newbie part of the audience but, i do think when i fix the jank, the main mechanics of bouncing off enemies around can do more then enough before i teach them later.

I appreciate any feedback on the weapon mechanics

[viral spade]

interesting combination of the cannon ball and the coin 🙂

but i like it!

[coral mirage]

I didn’t realize that it was a mix of those two 😭

[viral spade]

happens

[coral mirage]

Eh, it will get more unique as it progresses and it doesn’t have the auto aim

[viral spade]

that could either be a bad thing or a good thing

do you plan on having any playtests

[coral mirage]

This is a crowd control weapon, it thrives when enemies are around

[coral mirage]

I am thinking of making an indev build very soon, I want to finish the first level but, it will take a while and the mechanics already are so vastly different from the last build that I kinda need to

It really is up to everyone being ok with a build with around 1/2 of the level being complete without the escape sequence and and other parts of the first level

[viral spade]

well, good luck with that, hopefully this project will try and steer a bit away from ultrakill :p

[coral mirage]

But if most agree to having an inbetween build I am fine posting it. I already have a lot to show but, i just need the player to be revamped (arms, legs, shovel, and revolver) and I fix a few bugs and glitches

[coral mirage]

I hope it is, I have been trying to make the gameplay distinct (especially the combat but it’s kinda hard to have very interactive combat without people immediately thinking ultrakill)

[viral spade]

the switching gravity thing is very impressive, sadly fraud came out, but yeah :p

*doesn’t make it bad

[coral mirage]

I was SO mad when I saw the trailer when it came out ngl

But the layer was fun

[dense falcon]

is this just ultrakill?

correct me if im wrong

[coral mirage]

Hl2 + Titanfall + Pizzatower mostly

[coral mirage]

What is too similar to the game if you don’t mind me asking, since I am changing the look of the game (and gameplay is malleable as well)

[dense falcon]

well when i opened up the post it started me ALL THE WAY AT THE TOP OF THE CHAIN so there was definelty a lot of progress made since then so i just saw the very first demo video

its looking a lot more unique now tho

just the beginning phase had some similarities imo

🙂

[coral mirage]

ts haunts me forever now

[coral mirage]

this ball seems to be made out of steel...

[past fog]

Must be a Jojo reference

To be honest, haven't read the manga, waiting for the Season 7 to be animated

Or part 7 whatever it's called I forgot

If it's spoiler it's fine don't worry

[coral mirage]

steel ball run is peak fiction

[past fog]

Yeahh

[coral mirage]

oh mb

[hollow ginkgo]

sick!

with these types of fast paced crowd control fps games I’ve come to the conclusion that it is important to include some type of auto aim attack for orienting the player with the enemy position

obviously ultrakill has the coin but it also has conduction

fortnite has the damage and footsteps indicators

I think integrating it directly into an attack is best because it incentivizes a weapon swap when the player is disoriented

[coral mirage]

I am hesitant to add it due to it going from a weapon that can manage crowds via hitting it towards enemies and exploding it with the ns-revolver to a knockoff sharpshooter from ultrakill

I have already made modifications to the weapon like making the slugs bounce off enemies back towards the player slightly and making juggling have better speed/accuracy.

I might make juggling it aim at the closest enemy but, that seems a bit too close to the sharpshooter

[coral mirage]

this is more of how it should be used

or this

[keen shoal]

in-lore the reason that the shotgun slug is just a ball could be that it's actually a magnet with an explosive at its center

[brittle fulcrum]

Absolutely crazy project, looks amazing!🤩

[coral mirage]

It’s going to be an actual slug I just haven’t made the models and textures for the shotgun

[keen shoal]

Ah ok

My logic with the ball being a magnet was that it magnetizes the shotgun pellets, but nvm since it's gonna be an actual slug

[coral mirage]

I am testing out having slight aim assist with the slugs, the idea with pellets being magnetic is cool but I would either have to heavily modify the projectile code or make a new class

I also don’t want weapons to be too complicated, the shotgun slug already has the properties of hitting enemies with a rebounding slug that can be exploded upon getting shot, and (potentially) being slightly aim assisted upon being shot for the first time, or being juggled/kicked

[coral mirage]

The shotgun has gotten a massive upgrade, where charge shooting the slug causes a heavy explosion compared to a normal explosion. There is also some subtle aim assist now upon shooting the slug, juggling the slug, and kicking the slug.

• Kick has been buffed with a 2.5x slug aim assist
• Juggle has been buffed with 1.5x slug aim assist

It still requires precision but, it is more lenient now, and makes slug nuke setups easier.

[hollow ginkgo]

dope!!

[coral mirage]

I am going to upload a dev build onto itch.io today since i need feedback so far on the levels, which means you can test out the shotgun

maybe 15-30 minutes

i am just fixing a ambience glitch

[hollow ginkgo]

yippie! ping me with the link when you do

I do not mind haha

[coral mirage]

compiling and testing if the build works...

you can test it later, I just need feedback about the game loop and combat

although the level isn't finished, it should show enough.
It is just missing the escape sequence and the other half of the main part of the level (basically 1/3 of the entire level is done)

I also need to see if the weapons are fun and unique enough

i am redoing the models

those were temp models

and i technically "borrowed" part of the slab revolver's design

build works, just let me update the itch page

[coral mirage]

@hollow ginkgo @past fog
new build

https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1462684/dev-build-indev-75
password: 333

[coral mirage]

I have a question for anyone who wants to test the game out.

Would you like me to update the builds consistently as i build the level from its current state to its finished state? As in as I make rooms, yall can give me feedback on the gameplay and I can make good levels.

I might even add a special thanks section to the credits for those who participate in this.

basically i make a room, i upload it to itch.io, and then people test it, give me feedback, so I improve can the game

rooms within the level

alr

[royal ember]

i fucking suck at your game i couldnt get past the goddamn outside parkour zone >:C

[keen shoal]

i feel like the folly needs a more noticeable animation for the kick, because right now it kinda just leans backwards a little and then kicks you

it needs to be readable

also i played the test build.

i slid into a door and crashed the game

[coral mirage]

Shadows are unstable in godot especially for weaker hardware, if you have any issues try playing without shadows

[coral mirage]

Is the air movement off, because due to my air movement being based off source, diagonal air movement is weaker due to strafing

[royal ember]

i dont know

i just feel like i have a lot of inertia

and i cant control my own movement when getting fast and airborne

[coral mirage]

I think it’s because diagonal movement (aka using W+A or W+D) in air is weaker than doing W or A or S or D

I will try to make a fix

[keen shoal]

yeah that fixed it

also please make it so you can't collide with enemies, i've been pushed into a corner multiple times

fym

[keen shoal]

also this game should totally have a discord server of its own

[coral mirage]

I might think about it but, my issue is that I don’t want to manage it, since I have a lot of things to do, and I don’t trust anyone to moderate it

[keen shoal]

one other thing, what scale are the models made at?

[coral mirage]

Each character is at least between 1.8 to 2.4 blender meters tall

I’ll think about it, maybe once the first level is finished

I might do it earlier if enough people are interested in this

[hollow ginkgo]

what playtester population size are you testing with?

I feel like this will be bad because the people interested in the game will be unreasonably skilled as they test the room iterations more and more

I’d recommend doing it level by level or encounter by encounter ( think the sentry introduction area from 5-1)

[coral mirage]

fair enough, i am only doing this (partly) with the first level though. I have other people irl who are willing to playtest it and some others.

my idea is that i do a couple rooms, if i am unsure about something i get people to playtest it

[coral mirage]

Movement fixes, small enemy collisions disabled, and some other fixes/difficulty changes made:
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1462886/difficulty-fixes-and-movement-fixes

Air movement is basically the same, it just has better control now

password is 333

[coral mirage]

and a checkpoint has been added at the platforming segment

[bronze river]

Platforming good as always, left you a review on the docs.

How many people work on this game?

[coral mirage]

I make the game all by myself. armaccord is helping with the character art though

[coral mirage]

I appreciate the review btw, I do know some quick fixes with the movement (particularly in the dropkick) that will make it look/feel more consistent. Since i do end the kick animation a bit later on than the kick window.
I have also heard polarizing opinions on the platforming (possibly due to the changes in the first platforming section, and them maybe not having the latest patch) where either one says the movement is great and the other says movement feels a bit off and inconsistent (on dropkick, which is most likely due to the animation delay).

I have been putting more focus on platforming/movement over combat, but, I don’t think it was super obvious with the first 5 rooms (which I can fix if it is that bad).

Combat is a bit difficult because I do like having ammo based off of risky moves but, I have seen that people have issues with it. I will try to release a build removing ammo loss but if issues persist, I might remove ammo entirely.

Also it would be easier to fix what is clunky about combat if I knew specifically if the knockback is ass or if the enemies are glitching.

I will try to upload builds more often to fix the issues in the game but I do kinda need yours and everyone’s help to make this play well

[hollow ginkgo]

Somewhat unrelated but do you have a git (or any versioning backup protocol) set up for it?

[coral mirage]

I have a GitHub page

[hollow ginkgo]

What happened to lunatic firework’s messages

I was gonna reply to one of them about the player skill

[coral mirage]

idk

[hollow ginkgo]

good

Anyway extended testing is good but you wanna take note of player skill in some way when taking feedback advice or studying gameplay

it can be easy to misconstrue players being accustomed to your levels or an encounter with said gameplay being good

[coral mirage]

I know but, I am doing it fix the issues with movement tutorial text being too obscure, and making combat less clunky. Enemies are also apparently too static as well, so there is a lot to fix

[hollow ginkgo]

Should I try the build before the fix or after

Still haven’t gotten the chance to play

[coral mirage]

You can try it now but, I wouldn’t get my hopes up, I might push a new build in 30 minutes or so with some better tutorial text, fixed dropkick animation and no ammo loss

[hollow ginkgo]

yeah I’ll just wait

I figure my first time with your more polished build will be more valuable to you

[coral mirage]

I kinda have to rely on everyone here because it still plays too much like games like Ultrakill but, I do think that is is mostly due to the entire level not being done meaning half the game loop is missing

[coral mirage]

is this clear enough?

[coral mirage]

Sorry, the update might take a little longer, i am doing something very special which can help give everyone a little bit of a better idea of how the game will be

[hollow ginkgo]

all good, take your time

ping me when its ready

I'm free now :3

[coral mirage]

@hollow ginkgo https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1463620/dev-build-2
password: 333

I added an early escape sequence in level 1 so that it is more obvious how the gameplay loop works, although you do have to know how to do pellet/slug kicking (which requires shotgun which is in test map)

this isnt the intended route but, i think for now, this will make it more obvious that the game is more platforming focused than combat focused

it is beatable btw

[hollow ginkgo]

FEEDBACK

• slash should have a collision with surfaces, possibly stopping the animation early and leaving a mark
• wood falling sounds goofy
• changing gravity feels a bit weird and not smooth. Its like I smack my face into the wall then it shifts
• the slide not being infinite feels like a bug with how constant and fast the velocity is during it. Maybe make it start to fall off earlier instead of immediately stopping the player
• maybe add a hold r to go back to last check point. after falling I want to immediately restart and it feels annoying to have to wait for the death trigger

after hitting the thing the locked door never opened

[coral mirage]

The locked door in the hallway before the folly room isn’t used yet

Since the level layout isn’t done, I haven’t worked on the escape sequence part fully

[coral mirage]

I can fix those issues no problem

[hollow ginkgo]

oh also maybe add slope sliding if you aren't gonna make the slide infinite

Overall very cool!!! the environment really took me in

[coral mirage]

Slope sliding is a bit difficult, I had it in a very early build but, that had many edge cases and glitches

[bronze river]

The combat is clucky cuz its very "juiceless', like killing the enemy is very boring and dosent feel cool as like killing a enemy in ultrakill or similar games, also you can get very easily overwhelmed, would be cool so see a wepon that has area damage, sorry for not keeping up with development, but the game looks very promising!

[keen shoal]

can we have a secret level that you access by pushing every satellite dish physics object off the nearest ledge

it'd disable something somewhere and let you pass since the satellite dishes aren't there to make whatever they were there for work

[coral mirage]

Shotgun is for area denial/managing crowds, and the overwhelming enemies is on purpose

You aren’t V1, doom guy, or master chief.
You have a status around maybe Gordon freeman

You got any ideas though to make deaths more interesting?

[coral mirage]

That’s an interesting idea, I think that would be fun but, I would need to make a couple hints beforehand

[bronze river]

i think i have an idea why its lacking, its because the platforming dosent mix with it well, its cool that it hass wall jumping and other stuff, but it dosent mix well with the combat because i will raraely wall jump, or dropkick. Especially when im overwhelmed. But im not sure.

[coral mirage]

You think it is a core issue with the game or is it an issue that can be fixed via level design,
I am planning to make the arenas use platforming more, I just used more simple rooms for the intros of the 2 first enemies

[bronze river]

more with level design, but at its core, yeah a bit.

[coral mirage]

I will try to see what I can do, like I said, I will be releasing test builds more consistently so this doesn’t end up in shit

[coral mirage]

Which moves the biggest culprits to the issue btw, just as a head start.

[bronze river]

mostly the ammo part, with no ammo system and making the game a bit more "platformer" based it would be great. And you did good with the old playtest, if you remember that one rookm where you go in a loop and shoot enemys on the sides, that was fun!

[coral mirage]

I added the ammo part for balancing and tension, and in the new build i just released I removed ammo loss upon damage which I think solved that issue.

Oh and that room is coming back, just more polished

[bronze river]

awsome, but still the ammo part is very not fun, restricting a player from using a wepon kinda sucks. Especially if there is just one wepon

it works in halflife 2 or 1 because they give more ammo

but i see myself losing ammo at the most important room

also love your game, i admire you!

[coral mirage]

You did play the recent build I posted today? If so, I can increase ammo for revolver. I don’t think I have had any ammo shortage without spamming alt fire

[coral mirage]

I appreciate it but I think that is too much praise for something this flawed

[bronze river]

Let me do that rq

[bronze river]

Its a bit better now, i think the enemys that have projectiles are a bit tanky, the drop kick is a bit janky (most likely because you can "dash" with it on the x axis and not the y) but mostly the tanky part. Otherwise its great!

[coral mirage]

I think that the dropkick air dash works but, that could be because I practically play this near daily

It’s mainly to keep momentum

[bronze river]

Dont look at it this way, everything is flawed, and nothing is perfect. I mean your in collage, right? And your making a game! Making games is hard, i know it too, but you have something unique and fun, why stop? I sometimes get a bit down with my game, but i still continue! but in comparison with mine, your doing great! So keep going man!

[coral mirage]

No I am finishing high school

[bronze river]

Yeah, but i think its better to make it can go on the y axis for the combat, but im just one playtester, other people have opinion too!

[bronze river]

same man, what year?

[coral mirage]

Yeah, most playtesters are fine with it, I think it’s just that many are used to the standard ultrakill dash

[coral mirage]

12

[bronze river]

Shit i got confused, because in my country its a bit diffrent. Still what your 18? That still a great achivement, i often go to hell (reddit) and i see grown ass people (30-40) who make ai slop games and display them as a achivement

[hollow ginkgo]

For me the combat felt really stop and go

[coral mirage]

what do you mean by that

[hollow ginkgo]

Like in encounters I find them most fun when I am doing everything in my power to kill enemies and they are doing the same to me

The ammo system got in the way of that a bit, but I feel that the main problem with it was that the enemies would kind of take turns shooting

the melee guys are a lot of fun

[coral mirage]

i can make the folly have a wider shooting cooldown range

[hollow ginkgo]

in ultrakill the devs tend to place strays in vantage points or in places where there won’t fodder/ground enemies in front of then

[coral mirage]

this enough

[hollow ginkgo]

I’m not sure if a mechanical change is needed

it could just be a level design thing

try giving them some height variation

In the level geometry

Also do they have a charge up animation? I feel like that could clarify things more instead of them just idly standing there

[coral mirage]

they do

[hollow ginkgo]

I will need to play the level out again

[coral mirage]

once they flash their eye, their charge up animation plays before they shoot giving a small window of time to parry them before they shoot

[coral mirage]

Minor update, which makes Follys more aggressive, sfx fixes, and some other minor stuff like holding r to restart and making sliding stop less abruptly.

https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1463876/dev-build-3
password:333

[eager tree]

dman pretty cool

This game feels quite fun to play, almost like a fast paced action parkour zombie survival adventure - and I love the art style + art

I struggled with the first wall jumping section of level 1:1 though 😅

Also it feels like sometimes when you attack an enemy, the game loads and instantiates all the particles/effects on-demand, so there's a very slight pause

I played it on linux though wine 😛 so amazing it can run, and a nic 144fps

I'll be around tomorrow if you want some footage / feedback 🙂 I will probbaly try playing it again anyway to get the hang of the wall running haha. The margins for error are quite low because the character is so fast

That's not to say I dislike the speed of the character though - I actually love it, feels like your quick reactions are actually useful compared to most games

[coral mirage]

I readded ammo loss upon taking damage (for current weapon only) but, it is a bit more nuanced and lenient for less skilled players.
It now goes:
-1 from revolver or -1 from shotgun if damage taken is less than 20
-2 from revolver or -1 from shotgun if damage taken is less than 50
-4 from revolver or -3 from shotgun if damage taken is 50+

It doesnt sound like a fun mechanic at first, especially for those who think that i am intending for this to be another DOOM/Ultrakill game but, it grew on many playtesters and, like I stated before you aren't special in this game, you are some random human, that has fairly impressive movement and combat feats.

It was just too easy without having any consequence to getting hurt.

[coral mirage]

does this explanation make sense?

[hollow ginkgo]

Interesting idea, I’ll try the build when I get home

[coral mirage]

i didnt release the build yet

[hollow ginkgo]

oh oops

[coral mirage]

dw i am making some more rooms since i want this level to be finished eventually

[hollow ginkgo]

yippie!

[coral mirage]

so maybe sreenshots/videos today

[hollow ginkgo]

I do have a question about the wall jumping

Is the intended method done with the camera mimicking the motion of the player (looking directly at the next wall as the player approaches, pointing in the same direction of the velocity) or is it to be performed with the movement keys only with the camera being focused on the destination area in the middle (eg, the platform afterwards)?

[coral mirage]

you have to be facing yourself along the wall, not looking to much away or towards it. Think of it more like bloodthief's wallrunning

i do give some leeway with the angle you can face towards or away from the wall but, in regards to walljumping, it pushes you away based on the normal of the wall mixed with the current velocity of the player, you can test it out for yourself in game

i can make a small video demonstrating it better

[hollow ginkgo]

ahhh

[coral mirage]

this might help

this means you can do stuff like this

[hollow ginkgo]

oh woaw

[keen shoal]

Can we make the hole in the wall in level 1 bigger

The one that leads out to the more open part of the megastructure

[keen shoal]

Maybe the satellite dishes could each have a unique symbol on them that corresponds to an identical symbol and a light on the secret door

Do you think that would be enough of a hint for people who are paying attention?

A concept for the symbols if the idea sounds good to you

[coral mirage]

I am trying to aim lights and place props specifically near the holes as a subtle hint
So that can work the same for the satellites

[eager tree]

I didnt realise the satellites changed gravity when I first played, figured it out by just jumping around in that centre island for a while

[coral mirage]

Yeah, all npcs, and any physics prop interacts with gravity like the player

[coral mirage]

did anyone experience any performance issues with the test build btw?
I know that in the beginning of the pillar exterior (platforming room 1), the fps drops from 250 to 90-100 (due to all the dynamic positional lights) but, I have also seen some frame drops in combat and other very dynamic parts that i am trying to optimize.

[eager tree]

yes, i also got some frame drops in combat - I think it's when the particles spawn?

[coral mirage]

ok, thanks for the help.

I have been trying to optimize the game for the past few days and I have been going crazy trying to find what is causing the stuttering.
I wonder if i should add a cooldown before more particles can spawn, something like 0.05 seconds or such

[eager tree]

sounds annoying

are you instantiating them on-demand?

[coral mirage]

I dont have object pooling yet

so yeah

[eager tree]

if so, you could try creating a pool

yeah that will definitely be partly to blame (if not all)

[coral mirage]

The biggest problem i have is with lighting though

because of my artstyle mixing the realtime lighting techniques like shadowmapping with godot's limitations, i am stuck using dynamic omnilights

I would use baking if godot supported dynamic lightmaps like the source engine or at least static shadowmapping for positional lights but, it doesnt support either which is a bit annoying :/

[eager tree]

I don;t know much about lighting in godot - if you need some ideas for the particles I can help though

But the lighting in the game is so good, I hope you can find a solution which doesn't detriment the feel

[coral mirage]

I will try to implement object pooling and see if there is any performance gain, with lighting, all i can do is hope that either they eventually implement more optimized lighting or that someone knows some obscure super optimal way to handle 40 positional lights at once (even with the light/shadow distance) while maintaining fidelity and performance

[eager tree]

yeah, or worst case scenario you could have lighting graphics settings - like on low settings remove some of the shadows on lights or use more aggressive distance fade. Or even remove some lights altogether

But honestly I think your game is cool so let me know if you need help optimising anything more coding related like the particle pools etc

[coral mirage]

i appreciate the help

the particle cooldown actually helped btw

[coral mirage]

I have released another build to test out if any of the optimizations (like object pooling) worked. Lemme know if you run into any unexpected events since, object pooling has made somethings broken for a bit (i have fixed the issues already).

Shotgun knockback, and some other weapon issues have been fixed as well
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1466637/optimizations-and-fixes
password 333

i used to get 90fps on this btw (max settings as well)

[eager tree]

I will check tomorrow morning

[keen shoal]

You could expand on this unfinished room by having it be a giant heavily-damaged pipe where you can see bent and broken metal across it and see down the entire pipe

you could do the thing with it like you did with that one pillar, where if you walk down the pipe far enough to the left or right you fall and die

also the game crashed when i exited 1-1

[eager tree]

seems to feel better! I still freeze on parrying an attack though - is this actually intended?

[coral mirage]

yeah, it is a freezeframe

[coral mirage]

since the room is taking a bit to make, i have some wip screenshots of the rough finished layout of the room, (props, accessories like windows and side walls, and npcs are missing)

[raw yoke]

the parry freezeframe is cool and super cinematic but i imagine after the nth time it would become kinda cumbersome

[coral mirage]

It’s also used to aim the projectile back at specific npcs, I can shorten it if necessary

[raw yoke]

That might be a really good thing to have configurable in the settings

[coral mirage]

Maybe as a difficulty/assist setting, since I know I need to add difficulties to the game, or atleast an assist menu for aim, npc speed, extra health and more

[eager tree]

I thought it was microstutter lol, could probably use some extra visuals or something to make it seem more intended?

[coral mirage]

I could do that

[coral mirage]

How urgent is implementing controller movement? I know a couple people who tested it and liked it but, struggled due to them being console players that weren’t used to keyboard and mouse movement

[bronze river]

Its not that important, just add basic aim assist and thats it, because the game is more meant for fast paced movement and combat. So it dosent make a lot of sence adding controller support for that type of game.

[coral mirage]

Fair point but, I might still try to implement it once I finish the first level as a test

[coral mirage]

fixed the particle system and made the parry more obvious

i do need to shorten the surface impact glow but otherwise the particles are more dynamic

[coral mirage]

sorry that updates have been slow but, more progress has been made to the first level as well as fixes with projectiles and updates to enemy attacks (more effects)

I have also started using vertex coloring in the levels (example with and without shadows)

[coral mirage]

new build today maybe

[stable shell]

Hey, can i ask you a question ?
it's about the texturing of your level

[coral mirage]

sure no problem

[stable shell]

How did you manage to get such a perfect grid pattern on the walls while still maintaining the texture variations?
Is that the result of a stochastic texturing shader, or did you use noise?

I ask because i struggle a lot currently to get this type of result for my game

[coral mirage]

I unwrap everything manually for my game, specifically for the reason of how intricate the megastructure is.
It isnt even that time consuming as well, all you need to do is do cube unwrap for uvs, and move certain uvs to make it look better. I also design my textures to be large in the sense that a 64x64 texture (standard env for my game), has a minimum of 4 variants (32x32 cels) to keep things fresh. I also scale everything so that a full view of the texture takes up 4x4 meters of space which greatly reduces noticeable tiling

[coral mirage]

if you are using something like trench broom, i dont know if my explaination is much help

oh also i have variants of textures like for instance, my wall tile has an overgrown variant

[stable shell]

Unfortunately, i'm using no trenchbroom nor blender
I did my levels with csg nodes, and a friend of mine as made atlas texture of 4 variations

So i'm trying to get a way to automate the process of having nice grid pattern for the platforms, but boy it's hard

[coral mirage]

csg is great for prototyping but it is a limited way to make levels due to the fact of 1 material can be on one csg mesh. Unfortunately godot doesnt have a Probuilder equivelent.

there is also issues with complex shapes due to it being boolean based

[stable shell]

Yeah i know, but my levels are composed of simple platforms and curved platforms, so csg was a great solution to that

I didn't saw any tool in Trenchroom to efficiently make curved structures (apart from the classic one turn)
And i don't want to put my hands on Blender
So i'm only left with csg

[coral mirage]

yeah, unfortunately I dont think I can be of much help with this, i do remember there was a tool called cyclops that was a plugin for godot that was kinda like csg but more similar to probuilder but, idk

[stable shell]

Honestly i'll probably stick with csg, it does the job well
I just have to find a solution for this grid based texturing

Anyway, thanks for the help !

[coral mirage]

wish you luck

[hollow ginkgo]

If you don’t mind me asking, what type of curved structures?

I know trenchbroom has an arch tool of sorts that’s great for making curves

[coral mirage]

Hello everyone, I have now uploaded a new build to itch. This is mainly to see if the parkour cylinder room is needs any improvements before i finish adding props to it.
The first level is getting closer to being complete, i am just missing 2 rooms before the escape sequence room, after that, i will just need to add a few rooms in between to connect the level fully (so it is even possible without shotgun that will be introduced later), as well as adding some other things like portal spawning enemies (only for escape sequence for now).

By then the player, Hunter, weapons and stuff should also be revamped.

https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1475150/dev-build-5
password: 333

this is how the level looks in editor btw

also press shift + g while in the title screen to toggle something funny

[hollow ginkgo]

that is a ton of unbaked lights

I’ll play it in a few hours

[coral mirage]

I can’t really use baked lights, if I want to keep at least environmental shadows with Omni lights, I have to use realtime due to limitations with godot

[bronze river]

I played it, it was much more fun than the last, just dont make whe nthe player falls into a pit a insta kill, its a lot punishing considering the game has gravity switching, but other than that, its fun!

[coral mirage]

Thanks, I will try to make a minor update fixing that

[coral mirage]

I updated it, I also made the room prettier
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1476047/dev-build-51
password 333

also i changed the challenge mode toggle from shift-g to shift-alt-g

the command is very fitting for what the challenge is

[coral mirage]

here is some of my gameplay throughout the first level (spoilers if you havent played it yet)
I am thinking of changing the level name from Upsidedown, Flipped Diagonal to Disjointed Halls
https://youtu.be/2ZgjFk4IW4c

[coral mirage]

is this thumbnail good enough
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1150666629290659852/1488977307438813285/tumbnail.png?ex=69cebdad&is=69cd6c2d&hm=38432a8d321dc92211790ff1aaa40bd5ea648a6911399af03746be530df0ee29&

[royal ember]

Is this were 1st april jokes are heading to nowadays?

Goated anyway

I like the arrow pointing to the stickman clearly saying enemy

[coral mirage]

i didnt know what to put for the thumbnail for the challenge mode video 😭
and thats not the april fools joke. The joke is in the game

[royal ember]

I supossed it

I was just being a brat for no reason at all

[coral mirage]

its all good

heres a hint of what it is

not the resolution

[royal ember]

it looks like an impressionist painting that way

[royal ember]

YES

the perfect graphic options

[coral mirage]

i always make sure that all devices no matter the resolution can play

my personal favorite settings to optimize performance

[coral mirage]

what style looks the best?

1. Inwards normal+depth based Sobel outline (subtle brighten similar to old look)
2. Simple Sobel outline
3. Original Fresnel based outline

i'll admit that i am slightly biased to option 1

this is how more of the game looks with option 1

[keen shoal]

i lowkey don't know what the fuck any of those words mean, but i think the first one looks better to me

[coral mirage]

son 😭

[keen shoal]

look i have NOT touched shaders

EVER

[coral mirage]

Those are just the types of outlines

[keen shoal]

i see

[coral mirage]

This is what standard sobel outlines look like

[keen shoal]

ah ok

ngl you could probably make the sobel outline work if it was thinner and 75% transparent

[coral mirage]

And this is what fresnel outlines look like. Which is what I used before but, it has issues with flat surfaces in certain angles

[keen shoal]

personally i think the weird misshapen lines look really fucking cool

[coral mirage]

That’s what i am doing, the outlining I use for image one is transparent and highlights the silhouette subtly

[coral mirage]

It is good for round characters but it has major issues with level geometry which I had to disable it on

[hollow ginkgo]

I half agree here, second would be cooler if it were something that was more controllable

[coral mirage]

I agree heavily

[hollow ginkgo]

Idk if you feel up to writing a custom outline shader lol

[coral mirage]

I am

I have to for this since i like how Risk of Rain does it as it acts more as highlighting rather than bold outlines

[keen shoal]

you could maybe do that for the interloper to make the vertices of its model jitter

[coral mirage]

It also fits with the darker tone

[coral mirage]

I am definitely making the vertices snap and jitter

[coral mirage]

i improved it more, it now has distance fade and and better outline shrinking.
Here is how it looks in an open environment

is this thickness and highlight too much or is it good

[coral mirage]

made some more changes to the outlining, should i keep the extra outlining that objects have through glass or nah

[coral mirage]

???

idk why but, directional lights seem to cause weird glitches

HOW???

this isnt even relating to my outline shader, it just breaks when there are shadowless directional lights

[coral mirage]

as i am designing the last rooms of level 1, i made some changes to the earlier rooms adding vertex colors and modifying stuff to look better, is the new version (left) of the room nicer than the old version (right)

[keen shoal]

i like the new version better, looking at the old one the ceiling just seemed too empty

perfect way to fix that is for it to not be there, which you did

[coral mirage]

vertex coloring is becoming really handy now ngl, i think many of the rooms are becoming more interesting to look at, and it also makes hiding imperfections in oob areas easier

[dawn lava]

Looks really cool!

[modern zephyr]

It would be pretty cool to add hanging corpses on chains

On the ceiling

Not necessarily this spot but in general some places

[coral mirage]

I will add corpses around the levels of humans in certain spots (kinda like how half life 2 does it) but, I don’t think making them hang of chains really fits the game setting.

Maybe I can make a corpse caught on wires or something

[modern zephyr]

I dont know the game lore obviously

I think though the hanging symbolises the collapse of society you
Could also maybe put some cages with corpses or in a research chamber

https://preview.redd.it/scp-173-containment-chamber-one-of-my-oldest-renders-v0-3rmduts12yx21.jpg?auto=webp&s=7f95f1903b8b09f14fe45a2ba5ce1bd10980de04

[coral mirage]

That could be interesting

[coral mirage]

The way I will mosty handle corpses is to show subtlety the total collapse of the megastructure with corpses found in more hidden spots to show people were never safe from the mutated Husks and Follys (and other abominations), or corpses near doors to show that there were people who were trying to flee the barrage of abominations and machines but failed to escape

[modern zephyr]

look into Scp universe it will give you some inspiration

[coral mirage]

I’ll admit I don’t have the full story yet, only a basic motive for the player to climb up the structure and some other things like why the current npcs and objects and structures in the game exist.
The first level will be pretty isolated from the rest of the game (at least for now) because I need to see if the full game loop is fun

[coral mirage]

I’ll check it out

[coral mirage]

Since the next batch of rooms have been taking a bit to make (I dont have much time rn), I wanted to show off a screenshot of a view of one of the finished rooms as well as mention some of the changes to the game's balancing which will be in the update:

There has now a minimum amount of damage (10 currently) that the player needs to take to lose ammo now, this means that Hunters are now significantly less annoying as they only do 6 damage per nailshot.

More ammo is given to certain weapons upon a kill, as in the nailshot revolver gets more ammo given than the shotgun due to certain enemies being tougher to kill. It is also enemy based, so weak enemies give little to no ammo while minibosses or even boss enemies give a lot of ammo upon kill.

[viral spade]

this looks amazing

[coral mirage]

I tested out the length of the level, it takes 2:50 generally to go to the cursed generator in the level, adding the escape sequence time (currently 2 minutes), the level will be roughly 4-5 minutes depending if the player does the second lap to perfect it.

Not all levels will be this long but, I think i was kinda stuck making the first level longer due to how many interactions the player can do

I am still missing 3 rooms for the escape sequence so it might be shorter

[coral mirage]

ok nvm, it is a bit shorter if you try to play faster (this is without shotgun or any special tech, just nailshot revolver like intended)

[coral mirage]

is this intro grand enough?

also i have 3 rooms left to make (i think) before the level layout is finished

[bronze river]

a screen shake would help a lot!

also did you get inspo from the part in ultrakill where the hallways bend and hes landing on the lights?

[coral mirage]

ill admit partly but, the rest is just mirroring the intro of the level where the enemies fall through the ceiling

it was the easiest idea to make a grand intro to the hunter enemy

[coral mirage]

is this better?

I am also showing a bit more of the room since i think it shows more of what i meant by mirroring the intro of the level

[bronze river]

Its really not noticable, the player must notice it, cuz now its a bit static, in a way

[coral mirage]

gimme a moment

[coral mirage]

this enough?

[bronze river]

Yeah, i think thats good

[coral mirage]

What happens after is going to be really trippy but, I am going to wait till i finish the last 3 rooms so people can find out for themselves

[hollow ginkgo]

wait this is dope

peak usage for gravity manipulation

[keen shoal]

it's great, but it'd be a little better if the impact with the wall right before the breakable one had a smaller slam with a sound and some particles too

[coral mirage]

ill see what i can do

[coral mirage]

i fixed it so that if you hit a surface (horizontal or vertical) at high speeds, it will do the slam effect with screen shake. It does it via the angle to the surface so if you are moving fast horizontally but, not vertically you wont slam into the floor every hop

[keen shoal]

it's perfect

[dawn lava]

looks very fluid and nice to play

[coral mirage]

does anyone have any fun platforming room ideas in between these 2 escape route rooms? I have no idea what i should put there rn.
It prolly should be more vertical than the other 2 main platforming rooms

[keen shoal]

maybe some stuff you have to dropkick over

[coral mirage]

Not a bad idea

[coral mirage]

by the way, ammo for the nailshot revolver has been buffed so you shouldnt easily have no ammo anymore unlike the other weapons (which is by design, and makes the escape sequence significantly easier as well as general combat for the first levels)

[hollow ginkgo]

Might not work here specifically, but you are in a unique situation to do falling puzzles or rooms that you fight though at different gravity levels after clearing each wave of enemies

like after clearing the last wave or the full encounter the gravity switches to one that would allow the player to move past a pit

but a skilled player could use their movement ability to jump past the gap

[coral mirage]

that is an interesting idea, although my game doesnt have enemy waves (in the sense of ultrakill like), i already have used something like that in the level

[hollow ginkgo]

I mean like a garage door opening and a bunch of enemies flowing out or falling through the ceiling like the beginning

I also think spawning enemies in like ultrakill kinda breaks immersion

quake like monster closets are cool

[coral mirage]

yeah most definately

i think i will add ONLY for the escape sequences enemies spawning out of portals because the escape sequence starts due to a failed portal being opened by the broken cursed generator

this is what i can do with gravity based off event activators

[hollow ginkgo]

if you’re gonna go that route then it might be cooler to have entire sections of level geometry be teleported in with the enemies

[coral mirage]

that could be cool

[coral mirage]

The level layout is done, I just have to fix a few things and add foliage

I think ill actually make a discord server once i have everything polished more, if anyones interested.
This version is probably a lot easier than the current playtest build but, it is for several reasons (mostly extra leniency for escape sequence).

Also 2nd lap is more of a outpace the interloper thing so idk if i'll add really any extra enemies

[coral mirage]

heres some screenshots of whats to come

[trail lark]

wow

looks very ultrakill (in the best way possible)

[coral mirage]

anyone have a cooler bonus for initiating lap 2? The current bonus gonna called "LAPPED", "EVERYTHING ON THE LINE", "PERFECT OR NOTHING", or "COMPLETELY INSANE" but idk

[keen shoal]

"RUN IT BACK"

[coral mirage]

wait thats kinda fire

also is anyone good at music? This is the thing i am total shit at so, any help would be very much appreciated.

[keen shoal]

i can but it may take me a while

[keen shoal]

i also don't know whether i'll even get it done

[hollow ginkgo]

depends on the vibes you want of course

Might be better with the quake ambient approach in some areas then have music

music is quite expensive

[coral mirage]

I’m only sure about using proper music because when I was playing the level with some placeholder music borrowed from other games, it felt more complete and also made the escape sequence feel more impactful

For example I used the first part of 8-3’s music from ultrakill as a test (because it fit more in tone, and pace) and it actually fit pretty decently, just that I am not sure about adding dynamic music if I go more that route. Also the song for level 1 should focus more on the player’s struggle to survive against the enemies rather than total loss of control and direction ( that comes later), large liminal areas, and also be toned down in chaos to be less overwhelming for new players

Then I used a cut escape theme from pizza tower for the second part of the level and it also worked pretty well although for my game it probably should be more dread inducing as well as progressively more chaotic before the interloper pops out and chases the player (you can stun the interloper now as well btw to make it easier to escape but it is still extremely hard to outrun it)

[bronze river]

damn

[coral mirage]

now that i think about it, this is true, idk if this game is even worth finishing, and the future of this project relies on if the gameplay loop is actually good and stands out.
For now i will try to make the music myself but, out of lack of time, the tracks will most likely be early piano only tracks, or just use music from another game or artist even though it wont fit really

[hollow ginkgo]

That’s up to you to decide

but imo right now you should probably just use stuff from here and replace it as you get further in the project: https://opengameart.org/art-search-advanced?keys=&field_art_type_tid[]=12&sort_by=count&sort_order=DESC

there are tons of places for free music online or artists that will allow you to use their work

[coral mirage]

i think for the first level demo i will post (hopefully) soon, it will most likely lack music. I'll figure it out later

[hollow ginkgo]

if I were in your position I’d ask a composer who frequently does ultrakill inspired tracks if you could use their music as a placeholder with the intent of either commissioning or splitting profits with them in the future

[coral mirage]

My whole idea is, IF and only if I get to the point of making the game paid, and to the point where I can get somewhat an inflow of cash, I will be perfectly fine with splitting the money between the other potential developers/artists for the game.

I also do want my game's music to have an identity and do more than just having "ultrakill music", even though i don't have much of the story even written, I think not just thematically but, also gameplay-wise such music is not really compatible (but i could be overthinking it)

[keen shoal]

i tried making something kind of ultrakill-ish for when you're not fighting

i tried to use more sci-fi-ish sounds for some of the instruments

shit i accidentally left the wrong loop in the end of the second main part

fixed it

[coral mirage]

i like it

[keen shoal]

thanks

[coral mirage]

do you mind if we talk in dm's about this, I want to go more in further detail about the game's music if you are fine with it.

[hollow ginkgo]

wait this is so goated

[coral mirage]

Almost finished with everything, i kinda have to update the tutorial a tiny bit as well but, it isn't replacing the entire thing; just making it fit more with the gameplay loop

[heady pebble]

it just works

[coral mirage]

it was a SINGLE table

[coral mirage]

btw i think i am going to release a new build (full level 1) soon cuz i need to gage the difficulty of the game, I have taken many steps to make this difficult but not infuriating it is just that the playtesters I have had are very varied in how well they perform.
Some breeze through everything, some struggle really bad, some do well in the combat while others only do good with the platforming.

To remedy it and not alienate everyone, I am going to add difficulty modes. Only 3 maybe 4 but, for extra help, i will add accessibility settings like aim assist, faster stamina regen, more ammo/health, etc.

The default mode is the second hardest mode (Just so everything is more consistent and stuff, it could change), I will need everyone's help though to see if i went too overboard with the difficulty, if the first level fits as a first level, etc, etc.

maybe i can get it out in a couple hours but it could take like a day

[scarlet edge]

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-glow-glowing-angel-hallucinating-gif-489344050525737667

[coral mirage]

The full version of level 1 (minus secrets, artifact) and a redone tutorial has been uploaded to itch.io. I have made some serious rebalances, and changes to npcs, the player, and more so that the game should feel more fair.

I was going to release this later on when the player, hunter, weapons, and interloper got revamped. Which wouldve given me time to also add secrets throughout the level but, I want to see if the FULL gameplay loop is interesting and worthwhile to play to people.

https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1492568/level-1-finished-and-tutorial-revampwip (password: 333)

[coral mirage]

ok the server is on my profile now, it can make playtesting easier

[coral mirage]

This is how the escape sequence (second part of the level) plays out. (SPOILERS IF YOU DIDNT PLAY IT YET)
Other than some missing things like secrets, the core part is complete.
(Enemies that spawn out of portals only do that during escape sequences for lore reasons, as well as generally i think enemy closets are cooler).
https://youtu.be/NrgNiThM6Bw

[coral mirage]

is this enough indication

[coral mirage]

btw i updated the build to fix a couple things the download is the same, just go onto itch

[coral mirage]

Is the design for the nailshot revolver good enough (it will just be revamped for better texturing and modelling) or should i remake it to be designed something more like the sketch i made.

[keen shoal]

A design based on that sketch would go crazy in game

Also I think we're at a point where some vfx could be revamped to be more impactful

For example, dropkicking a wall or floor could make different particles and sound based on the material you kick, a crack on the surface of the object, and a short impact frame

Parrying an enemy attack could also be given a shorter freezeframe, but compensate for that by having a more over-the-top effect, maybe something like this with these spark-like line things and a bright flash, maybe even some metallic sparks that are affected by gravity. (The circle isn't really part of the effect, but you can make something out of that if you want)

This is the type of game where you should be able to do a thing, and doing that thing makes you feel cool while you're doing that thing because of all of the juiced-up VFX

Also the pointy particles would squash and stretch into nothing like this

[coral mirage]

The only issue is how can I find a single specific material on a mesh with 15 other materials

[hollow ginkgo]

shotgun blast of 9 raycasts perhaps

[coral mirage]

pellets are funnier, and the accidental find of dropkicking pellets for an air jump is too good

I can make it faster tho

[hollow ginkgo]

I mean for determining which surface particles to emit

[coral mirage]

I have that already tho, it just doesn’t check the material since idk if godot even has that

[coral mirage]

Other than making rebalancing combat more so that there is a better balance of aggressive and defensive play, I started working on the level exit and entrance which is inspired by portal's elevators and left4dead's safe rooms.

It will be kinda like some maintenance/mineshaft like elevator

[keen shoal]

The image is gone from this for some reason.

[coral mirage]

could you send it again?

[keen shoal]

i lost the image

i'll have to find it again

There, I went back and changed the middle of the effect because it looked kinda empty as well

[keen shoal]

You could mark every object with a material tag for that maybe, it'd also make things easier for modders

[coral mirage]

I could try to make every collisionshape have a surface metadata tag but, I would have to split meshes up into defined surfaces which feels a bit daunting rn. if there isn't any way to do it with material based metadata, i will go through with it

[coral mirage]

Ngl, i am kinda unsure about the elevator exit/entrance. It works fine especially with the whole plot of climbing up the megastructure but, it feels too close to portal and other games. I can do something with abyss fog or teleporters maybe but, I would need to make it in a way that shows the player is climbing up the megastructure.

A new build has been posted to the page, for everyone to download, it is much more complete with many changes and rebalances. I did make the Perfect run a bit easier by lowering the score requirement a bit but, you can easily get over it either way.

I still need to see if the gameplay loop is fun, and engaging enough for people to play it for 30-32 more levels (4-5 levels and 1 dedicated boss level per part excluding possible secret levels).

Reading the README.md file would be much appreciated as well.
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1495300/the-great-rebalancing (password: 333)

Also note that i am not intending for the story to be fully linear, I kinda want to do some kind of things kinda like ds1 with characters like Solaire and Seigemeyer

[keen shoal]

one thing, you think we could have the sensitivity go up to 6?

i play with HIGH sensitivity

[coral mirage]

sure

i can make it up to 10, nicer number

@keen shoal done.

i am open for any quality of life changes rn, i am creating a small patch currently

[keen shoal]

also i think something breaks after dying once to the interloper

oh god it's even worse this time

[coral mirage]

that is fixed in the current patch i am working on, apparently I had the camera near plane set at 0.01 and i fixed tht

idk why i had it set that close but, i thought it was a shader compatibility issue. Luckily it isnt

my version was WAY worse 😭

[keen shoal]

"𝓘'𝓶 𝓼𝓸 𝓰𝓻𝓮𝓮𝓷"

[coral mirage]

i had like 50 different variants

i had a chrome version, clown vomit, monochrome, and just blue

the patch shouldnt take too long, maybe 30 minutes to an hour

[keen shoal]

so i've been playing the game, and i've realized that follies tend to snipe you from halfway across the map, before they're even intended to be fought

[coral mirage]

i can lower their vis range

it is at 150 meters currently

[coral mirage]

they can jump now

all of them

[coral mirage]

this is all you need to see for this update
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1496098/they-can-jump (password: 333)

its still a bit rough and i prolly will need to implement it into pathfinding more since it only currently happens when the player is close (this is more of just getting unstuck rn), ill post another build when i refine it more

read the README.md before playtesting for more info on things

[keen shoal]

i tried to make the start of a song that plays during the escape sequences

[keen shoal]

made more of the song

[coral mirage]

amazing

[keen shoal]

Thanks

[keen shoal]

imma play the new build

[keen shoal]

i found an incredibly situational tech/bug. i'm gonna call it a spawnkick since it launches you crazy far on respawning from a fall

[keen shoal]

also being able to jump is causing enemies to kill themselves

[coral mirage]

It’s not a bug, it is just that dropkick power is based off velocity and once the player gets teleported back to their safe position, the velocity is saved for a frame

[coral mirage]

Like I said, it is still a bit rough, it’s probably because I used distance squared instead of distance

[keen shoal]

and also the sniping from across the map is still an issue

[coral mirage]

It’s a positioning issue then

[keen shoal]

if the thing takes up less than 6 pixels on my monitor it should NOT be able to shoot me

[coral mirage]

I will try to fix that

[bronze river]

Add so that when you are dropkicking at fast speeds, it has a little pause, it helps the player "aim" at the direction they want to go in.

Ultrakill has the same thing for the jackhammer (ik your trying to be diffrent from ultrakill, but i really dont know any other game having this mechanic)

[keen shoal]

that'll also make it feel more powerful

which is good, this game needs juiced-up VFX

[coral mirage]

I am a bit hesitant about doing this but I will test it out. I might even increase damage with speed.

[bronze river]

if your doing this, add impact frames, helped with my game

[coral mirage]

Probably

[keen shoal]

also, the volley sound feels kinda weak right now, just being the regular kick sound

doesn't feel as rewarding as it should with the current sound

[keen shoal]

i made this for the projectile kick sound, feel free to use it if you want

this alongside an impact frame and that parry effect i drew would be so fire

the freezeframe of the projectile kick would probably have to be changed to fit the length of the first part of this sound though

[keen shoal]

also i completely finished REALITY BREAKDOWN, i think it's around 2 minutes and 30 seconds long now

yeah i was right

2:47 but whatever

[coral mirage]

which is better?
Left (1): Old version
Right (2): New version

the new version is a bit more desaturated and moodier (I was kinda inspired by the look of supernatural season 1-3)

[keen shoal]

i like the new version better

[bronze river]

old is better for gameplay, new is better for visuals

[coral mirage]

is this a decent middleground? It still will be a bit more desaturated but, the contrast is reduced making darker areas still more visible

[bronze river]

just add a contrast slider, and make the default to the new one, so that the player can have control over the enviroment

[coral mirage]

ill consider it

[coral mirage]

Npc terrain traversal is a lot better now, where it is itegrated with pathfinding in some aspects. The technical stuff is really boring and painful but the end result is very, very amusing.
Enemies are a lot more menacing now, and are MUCH more persistent.

[keen shoal]

can we have a style bonus for kicking an enemy that's in jump-state

also it's crazy how the hunters genuinely move like actual FPS players now

[coral mirage]

"+Punt"

[coral mirage]

Yeah, they are just missing their melee attack and then their moveset is complete

[keen shoal]

+Punted would lowk be so funny in-game

[coral mirage]

I am planning to make human enemies able to parry the player among other things like run on walls, dropkick the player, slide, etc

[keen shoal]

dear god that sounds terrifying

[coral mirage]

I am trying to drill in that the player isnt special (mostly), and that to survive, they need to outsmart smart enemies

[keen shoal]

you should probably make their parry more of a counter where they block and your attack's parried if you attack them during it

[coral mirage]

I already know how i will implement it but, i am keeping it secret for now

[keen shoal]

also is the build out

[coral mirage]

no

i am still working on the tutorial and i spent like 30 minutes trying to get the lap 1 escape theme finale to play smoothly no matter what the length of the sequence

build will be tommorow

maybe

[coral mirage]

thats gonna leave a mark

[coral mirage]

no music still but, it will be implemented soon

[coral mirage]

ik this is a random change but I just changed gray_decay's itch page to be public since it's first level and tutorial are practically done (just missing secrets and some extra polish). That means no more password!!!
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev

[dawn lava]

Nice!!

[coral mirage]

fixed a few things
https://ffl1xx76.itch.io/citadel-may-fall-indev/devlog/1499548/massive-oversights-fixed

[coral mirage]

Full first level (minus secrets and music)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfDe5fAIThY

[coral mirage]

(specifically in outlines and shading)

[coral mirage]

NPC movement has been fully fixed now
https://youtu.be/TMB8XoTnBJ0

[keen shoal]

i'm back from vacation

[coral mirage]

i was thinking about the combat for the game and even though i think i have balanced everything much better to promote a more unique playstyle, wouldnt it be funny if i added burning damage from being hit by 2000 degree celsius projectiles or bleed or is that too mean?

[keen shoal]

imma be real, hard damage is enough

[coral mirage]

thats already done though, they are a human, and i was thinking of making it a low chance thing.
Either way in the current version if you try to go up against 6 hunters without spamming the shotgun, you will die.

actually even better, i make specific enemies or hazards have the ability of having a chance of dealing these effects where it makes sense. Healing will nullify the effects.

[keen shoal]

by the way yall, i got hired as the musician for this game

that's why i've been posting music in here occasionally

i'm currently trying to remake the escape theme again so it fits the game and scenario better

[uneven parcel]

Oh sick!

[uneven parcel]

Will there be items/abilities that can nullify said damage types or reduce them? Like -15% flame and stuff like that

[coral mirage]

i dont really know yet but, maybe. If the gameplay loop is interesting enough for people, I am thinking of adding alternate melee weapons that the player can find, which could have these different effects.

The burn, bleed, explosive, and electrical damage will hopefully be a thing that the player and all npcs will have, where certain characters will have different resistances. Like Humans will have general resistances like the player due to their armor, abominations (husks, and follies) will have resistances to electricity and burning), machines will have the most resistances (except for electricity), so on and so forth.

[uneven parcel]

Aaa okie so resistances and stuff like that is more defined by species than equipment like armor or trinkets and whatnot

[coral mirage]

yeah

i am kinda going for making the creatures and what they have affect their strengths and weaknesses, for instance the Folly enemy can deal heavy melee damage but due to it's skeletal structure, it's movement is hindered making them more of a ranged enemy unlike the Husk

[coral mirage]

I just want to give an overview of what changes will and are already made for the next playtest update.
Starting off, many of the effects have been improved, and made more accurate to the game's story/lore. I have actually written the start of the lore of the game which is pretty interconnected already with how Reality and the Fractured Abyss work, how and why their interactions work, etc, etc. This also lead to secrets being more connected with the story now instead of a collectable, so there will be npcs and hidden items across each level which will affect the story in small ways.

The level start and end has been changed (Still WIP) from an elevator room to a semi-seamless portal now which means there are 2 types of fog gates now:

White Fog is made by the cursed generator and is the portal to activate the second lap and completely sever the connection between reality and the fractured abyss (in that area).

Golden Fog are the portals that are made by either a stable cursed generator (2.0 version which will be found in level exit rooms).

Those arent the actual names of the portals.

Last thing i want to mention is that I am heavily considering adding damage types (bleed, burn, electricity, explosion) as a core part of the combat loop making it a tiny bit more complex at first but, it will promote weapon diversity more, and make combat more interesting since what can be done on the player can be done on enemies.

it is threshold based not rng based

1/1000 chance for your heart to stop from an electric attack, instakilling you

[keen shoal]

1 in 10000 chance every second for withered foxy jumpscare

[uneven parcel]

1 in 1000000 chance that when you die the game deletes itself off your system

[coral mirage]

noticable enough?

[keen shoal]

i have an even better idea to go alongside that

color the healthbar based on what effect you have

[uneven parcel]

That's actually a really cool idea

[keen shoal]

also i feel like electric damage would drain your energy since it can cause your muscles to spasm and waste energy or something

you could even put a border effect on the screen based on the effect you have

[coral mirage]

electric damage when i get to the point of adding could work by draining stamina but, along side that it will stun enemies and have a chance of setting you or the enemy aflame

also i want to say that melee has been nerfed quite a bit, i wanted it to be a defensive weapon but i gave it too much damage and speed so i dropped it from 15 damage and 0.5s cooldown to 10 damage 0.6s cooldown. The dropkick also has reduced damage but, it's damage is now speed based meaning it has a minimum of 10 damage and a max damage of 30 if you are going 40m/s

[keen shoal]

i have another good idea for the way the status effects render on the HP bar. They could render in this type of way, where the color of the applied status effects are rendered as diagonal stripes on the healthbar.

[coral mirage]

let me first properly implement the system then we can talk about this more

[coral mirage]

i implemented it, i need to work on the UI, and debuff visuals (particles and decals). It actually makes for a much more interesting playstyle (i think). If you get too close all the time you can get cut up easily and bleed out, explosions will set everyone aflame, and projectiles can set characters aflame since they are technically 2500 degree celsius plasma balls (but it is hard to do).
Shovel now has bleed as well as nailshot revolver and a point blank shot with the shotgun but this goes both ways. Husks and Follies can easily bleed you now if you play too close all the time.

Parries clear debuff buildup (not the debuffs themselves), and bleed can only be added when the debuff isnt active meaning it cannot stack