Whales, dolphins and other large marine animals for aquariums / marine sanctuaries

[idle spoke]

Yeah LOL

[blazing turtle]

Blackfish is the Supersize Me of the captive animal world

[glacial light]

And as always a lot of people are all to happy to blindly follow instead of using their own brain and a whole bunch of resources to actually learn and make up their own mind

Is another reason why I really hope they add them in game as it would be a chance to counter these things and really educate people

[bronze basin]

Blackfish was PETA funded i think

People follow their emotions too much

[slim ingot]

hello cetacean crusaders

[noble walrus]

GREAT MORNING

🐬

WATCHING THE VIDEO

[dull jungle]

Cetacean crusaders, LOVE THAT😂

[turbid wharf]

Love the video!!

[bronze basin]

Hope that Frontier listens to us leaf

[dull jungle]

Great video Leaf. I’m subscribed now!

[red cargo]

the video was so goated thank you Leaf 🙏

[slim ingot]

At the end I do advocate that I would like them to be usable in a normal zoo setting as well but I figure this is the best way to "bridge the gap"

Keep everyone happy

||plus the way that the PZ code works and i assume pz2 code would too, that thing about allowing for the pruchase of them in normal zoos could prolly still apply lol||

[cedar drift]

just woke up about to watch the video

[hazy grove]

Thank you leaf for the video…

Have this flower

[cedar drift]

The video was great, the best video on this topic. Thank you Leaf!

[noble walrus]

👏 👏 👏 👏

[cedar drift]

I do think this will improve the chances of cetaceans in PZ2.

I feel like content creators have definitely influenced things in the past

[noble walrus]

We're working on it!

[dull jungle]

Still on the side of caution, but I’m feeling quite confident that we will get cetaceans. There’s too many reasons to add them.

[hazy grove]

Zoo game

[cedar drift]

Also never really thought of it beyond "that's weird" but the fact that Planet Zoo encourages you to support purchasing animals for/selective breeding traits like albinism for guest popularity is pretty hypocritical

Like yeah, it's realistic in a way, but also it's completely antithetical to real conservation, and animals like white tigers are banned in the AZA because they're inbred and bred only for aesthetic novelty

[noble walrus]

That's for sure a great point but I think we should focus on what we want, and not on side stuff 🙏

Let's be postive about cetaceans, not negative about existing game mechanics!

[cedar drift]

Just adding onto one of Leaf's points. And if there are any worries that cetaceans being added is anti-conservation, there's already worse in PZ1

[hazy grove]

That probably warrants its own thread and I assume (or at least hope) that Frontier is aware of it.

[cedar drift]

Yeah, I agree

[gentle flower]

I've never read that book so I didn't know that there was wrong info in it. Not surprised.

[gentle flower]

A lot of the walkthrough animals are pretty unethical too. Pangolins? Platypus? Kiwi?

Zoo Miami got in a lot of trouble with New Zealand for letting people in their Kiwi exhibit and then interact with them.

[cedar drift]

Platypuses in PZ make me think the chances of cetaceans are higher, especially the way they are in PZ. They aren't in any UK or European zoos. And they have strict requirements that no one would attempt to meet. And the zoo miami controversy for the kiwi like you mentioned

But at the same time I guess they don't have a blackfish

[dull jungle]

Blackfish film about platypus but it’s called “Flat tail”

[cedar drift]

Lol honestly I'm surprised there havent been more blackfish films based on other animals that took off

I know blackfish was riding off of a recent tragedy at the time and all, but still

[bright dew]

Yo

[steep jewel]

Especially with primates and elephants

Also surprised there isn't really any tiger king but with primates either given how horrible the exotic primate industry is

[bronze basin]

Peta ran outta funds ig

But in a more serious note

A lot of anti captivity associations have a starter pack:

Missinformation/lies

A little peta funded netflix documentary (instead of actual reserarch)

People acting and saying things out of their emotions and not out of their minds

Advocating for """"""freedom""""""" and using that as main argument for anticaptiviy, emotionaly manipulating people

People crying and whining about animals that get top notch veterinary care while keeping bettas in bowls and obese cats

Lori marino.

Affiliation with wsp

[cedar drift]

🤡

[cedar drift]

PETA is like super powerful

Really powerful legal team

[gentle flower]

I'm glad people here know about her.

Fun facts, she's also against elephant captivity and has a research on that, but because the elephant captivity debate isn't as heated it gets like no attention.

[gentle flower]

PETA isn't all that... powerful legally... Their big thing is go out and do a radical thing and stir up crap.

HSUS or whatever their name has a really powerful legal team that backs PETA though. That's the secret there. I'm sure other groups have joined in too, but that was the dynamic for a while

[noble walrus]

More work being done on the cetacean sweep front!

@gentle flower sorry for the ping, can you send me pdfs in the DM for the material you mentioned?

[cedar drift]

They buy a lot of corporate stock in companies like SeaWorld and McDonald's to get what they want. They have successfully sued companies in the past as well, and they're pretty aggressive, at least, since they go after billion-dollar companies

[gentle flower]

It's fine, I appreciate pings. It helps me actually respond to people. Which ones do you want? All of them or just a few?

[noble walrus]

All of them! We're writing a manifesto supporting the inclusion of cetaceans in the game

Feel more than free to wash me with papers lmao

[gentle flower]

Oh yeah, you're right about that, they do do the stock thing. I know they get backing from HSUS and other groups though. It's like... they get to look crazy while getting money and legal support from other places and those places get to look more moderate

Alright give me a second for those papers

[cedar drift]

Yeah HSUS is much smarter than PETA because they keep a good face and work cooperatively with their opponents

Like HSUS is the reason why SeaWorld doesn't have orca breeding anymore because they set up a meeting with the CEO at the time where they ended the breeding program they've been partners ever since

PETA would never because they insult and attempt to humiliate their opponents

[red cargo]

even if they didn’t end the breeding program they would lowkey have to because they reached a genetic bottleneck 😭 out of the orcas they have excluding San Diego because they have a state-imposed breeding ban, only one (Takara) is not related to Tilikum 😭

but i digress

how is the manifesto doing

[noble walrus]

The points of discussion are set

❤️‍🩹

we've started work on the main body of the text

[red cargo]

YIPPEEEEEEE

[cedar drift]

seaworld would've just figured that out on their own eventually and we would've had BWP still, and they might've still outsourced

[cedar drift]

doing well, getting a lot done tonight, if you'd like to add to it we can give you access

The idea was a collaborative thing where all of us here write it

[red cargo]

i'd love to!

[cedar drift]

sent the server link

[remote sparrow]

🙏 forgive me everyone if I am texting or messaging in the wrong place but I would like to add something, personally I would have to agree with most this is a game and we all play this game to make something fun and enjoyable for ourselves, take zoo tycoon I remember when I was a kid I could do whatever I wanted with that game whether make shows, have giant eco systems (kinda) so on and so forth, I feel like having specific ideals towards one group of animals that makes developers a little nervous to add it is a little out there, the same could be said for any animal in captivity because that isn't there natural place to be and they do get a lot of human interaction however I feel like adding these animals brings potential for people to be more aware of what exactly these animals need and what they are going through, I would love to see cetaceons not only because heck they are awesome animals but I wanna be able to feel that satisfaction of having possibly a whole pod of dolphins or orcas on my park then release them out into the wild knowing I saved an entire family and they will go on to reproduce and make sure the species is protected, yeah its a game but I feel like we can all say that would be really satisfying

[bronze basin]

I did not know that

[hazy grove]

Don’t forget Animal Legal Defense Fund. They may have done some good but you hotta be care around that one.

[gentle flower]

Yeah that and the California law that prevents moving or breeding.

Which was probably HSUS looking back. I forget the details.

[gentle flower]

Welllllllll......

We have the Chimelong orcas. But transfer or even AI from those orcas might have been... Really messy.

[red cargo]

the AZA and NOAA would be VERY upset

so from the get-go i assume they wouldn’t do it

[gentle flower]

Idk if AI would even be legal from them

[red cargo]

they provided guidance and shared their expertise with Chimelong and Haichang and vice versa but that’s as far as their relationship goes

[gentle flower]

Of course, we did have a relatively recent (2015?) influx of African elephant genetics from wild animals, but that was what got that banned.

[gentle flower]

I'm going to be real honest...

Any large NGO needs a lot of scrutiny, especially ones in the Western World. There's a lot of... Really shady stuff they can pull legally. Financial and human rights are always two things to keep an eye on when it comes to animal rights and conservation non-profits.

Been there, done that.