issues with tip forming

[placid viper]

no matter what speed i set it too while using the afc macros and testing. its always pulling at the same speed any ideas on why that is?

[mossy glacier]

Please describe what you're doing in a bit more detail. What exactly are you doing, what did you configure and how are you testing it?

It's better to provide too much detail instead of too little 😉

[atomic ingot]

I noticed this too.
It moves the filament very fast.
Instead of 50mm/s I had to write 0.8mm/s, so the speed was about right.
It's like multiplying by 60 twice.

[mossy glacier]

I'd really like to help both of you, but I need to understand what exactly you're doing first.

[atomic ingot]

AFC.cfg

The speeds are good for me.
For some reason it's sixty times faster than it should be.

[mossy glacier]

Are we talking about settings like unloading_speed and unloading_speed_start? During a regular unload? Or how are you testing this?
Could you upload your klippy.log?

What branch and version of AFC are you on?

[atomic ingot]

exactly. Here it calculates sixty times all the speed parameters in the table (AFC_from_tip). If I use the original settings, it just crackles and rattles.

AFC Klipper Add On
v0.0.0-1295-g813e7741-inferred

[mossy glacier]

@opal ice: did we have any kind of bug in AFC that would lead to tip forming using 60 times the configured extrusion speed?

[mossy glacier]

Could you please run git log -1 in ~/AFC-Klipper-Add-On and post the output?

And also the output of git status?

[opal ice]

Maybe during the ramming part since it looks like the speed for that is fixed values, other places it's multiplied by 60

[mossy glacier]

Ramming is set to 0 in the config.

I also can't see anything changing the extrusion multiplier in Klipper. And I'm also not aware of any command to set Klipper to mm/sec instead of mm/min. So I don't have a good theory right now.

[mossy glacier]

Can you reproduce by

• restarting Klipper,
• heating the hotend to printing temperature,
• extruding filament until it exists the nozzle,
• running TEST_AFC_TIP_FORMING?

[atomic ingot]

"TEST_AFC_TIP_FORMING" runs and everything is fine, only with the parameters I specified. It works like this. I've been using it like this for several days, maybe it's just me that has the error. Thank you for that.
Now I'm struggling with a different problem, I updated it yesterday and since then the buffer is not good, it doesn't pull back the filament after changing it, and it stays taut. So it doesn't thread the next filament, it just waits. Yesterday it pulled back after threading it.

[mossy glacier]

"TEST_AFC_TIP_FORMING" runs and everything is fine, only with the parameters I specified. It works like this. I've been using it like this for several days, maybe it's just me that has the error. Thank you for that.
We really should find out where that issue is coming from, because something is broken in your setup. Who knows what kind of follow-up issues this will cause... If you want to dig deeper, I'm glad to help.

[mossy glacier]

Now I'm struggling with a different problem, I updated it yesterday and since then the buffer is not good, it doesn't pull back the filament after changing it, and it stays taut. So it doesn't thread the next filament, it just waits. Yesterday it pulled back after threading it.
So it pulls the filament back to the BoxTurtle, but then it doesn't load the new one?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

If you can make a video showing the issue, that would help.

[atomic ingot]

I am making a video.

[placid viper]

Yes that's the issue i have. I've set it to 1 and 100 and it moves at the exact same rate. I'm going to try what the other user did and see if that changes the speed it moved.

[mossy glacier]

Are you sure you're editing the correct file? Might sound like a stupid question, but it happened before ...

[placid viper]

yes im sure its the afc cfg file with the tip forming settings in it

[mossy glacier]

Ok. If you want, we can dig deeper and try to find what's going on. For that I need the following:

• Configure a very distinctive unload speed in AFC.cfg (something like 30.123 for example)

• Please upload your klippy.log

• Execute these commands on your host and post the output:

cd ~/AFC-Klipper-Add-On; git status; git log -1
cd ~/klipper; git status; git log -1

• Then please restart Klipper (either via Mainsail or with the command RESTART) and reproduce the issue with the smallest number of steps possible.

Hopefully that gives me enough information to figure out what's going on. Maybe I'll even manage to reproduce this...

[placid viper]

will do. running some test prints

also where is this setting?

Buffer did not become compressed after 2 short moves.
Increasing 'tool_max_unload_attempts' may improve loading reliablity

[mossy glacier]

Now I'm confused 🙂
I thought you tried several different values for the unload speed, without noticing a difference. So you should know where that settings is 🤔

[placid viper]

ok so heres the situation. yes that is correct i did try a bunch and say no change in speed. so what i did instead is move the cooling position and incresed the cooling length and managed to get a usable tip. its shorter and not as spear like as i would prefer but. it works.... its also makes tool changing slow af. but it works. im also at the same time tring to resolve another issue as well

[placid viper]

Your branch is up to date with 'origin/main'.

nothing to commit, working tree clean
commit 813e77414297cf0452849b486d6128b935270ab6 (HEAD -> main, origin/main, origin/HEAD)
Merge: 6208f29 08a8c93
Author: Brian Burton [email protected]
Date: Sun Feb 23 10:07:47 2025 -0600

Merge pull request #262 from ejsears/add-python-prereq

Add python prereq

On branch main
Your branch is up to date with 'origin/main'.

Untracked files:
(use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
klippy/extras/shaketune

nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track)
commit aa4cc80507a985b33de8b037cb8e400e7e168201 (HEAD -> main, origin/main, origin/HEAD)
Author: Rogerio Goncalves [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 19 13:58:45 2025 +0000

dockable_probe: pre|post_attach|detach hooks (#477)

* dockable_probe: pre|post_attach|detach hooks

* dockable_probe: fbocs feedback

* Updated documentation

---------

Co-authored-by: Zeanon <[email protected]>

[placid viper]

when i try to download the klippy log it doesnt create one.... i change the settings using the set_tip_forming thing and then rant Test_tip_forming

[mossy glacier]

How are you trying to download?

Is maybe Chrome (if you use that) preventing the download for some reason?

Also, you can use GET_TIP_FORMING to verify the tip forming settings used by TEST_TIP_FORMING, to make sure that they really are as expected.

[placid viper]

ok yea i do that

and the speed doesnt change from the looks of it

[mossy glacier]

So what does GET_TIP_FORMING output?

[placid viper]

Tip Forming Configuration:
ramming_volume: 0.0
toolchange_temp: 0.0
unloading_speed_start: 2.125
unloading_speed: 0.5
cooling_tube_position: 30.0
cooling_tube_length: 10.0
initial_cooling_speed: 0.16
final_cooling_speed: 1.0
cooling_moves: 3

[placid viper]

^

[mossy glacier]

Hm.
When tip forming is ran, AFC writes the current step on the console. The one affected by unload_speed is Retraction & Nozzle Separation.
That step should really take a few seconds with that slow unload speed, while with a higher value (e.g. 80) it should be finished in less than a second.

After all, it's retracing colling_tube_position + cooling_tube_length, which with your config is 40 mm.

[mossy glacier]

Ok, so changing unloading_speed definitly makes a difference. It's just hard to notice, as it's extruding way too fast.
@placid viper: if you set it to a really low value (0.01 or so), then it should take a while to unload.

[mossy glacier]

It's not just you. It really is extruding 60 times too fast. Nice little bug that's been hiding very well for basically forever.

[placid viper]

So when I had it set to 2 or 100... I been retracting at max speed already? Ill try 0.01 and see if that changes anything

[mossy glacier]

Not sure if there's a speed limit anywhere in Klipper for the extruder. It tried to move it with 2 * 60 and 100 * 60 mm/sec respectively. Which for these short distances doesn't make too much of a difference.

[placid viper]

Interesting. I'd just imagine it would give me what I input and skip if to high. But I'll text when I get home. Will be upgrading to filamatrix in a week.

[mossy glacier]

That’s what it should do. The times 60 is an error that’s been hiding there for a long time.

[atomic ingot]

I made a video about it, where it shows that it doesn't unwind the buffer after threading, I uploaded it to Youtube. You can see in the video that it doesn't unwind the buffer and starts printing. Then it stops without an error and waits until I unwind the buffer. In the meantime, I realized that if I thread the filament before it (BT_TOOL_UNLOAD) and then call the tool, then it unwinds after threading the filament, sometimes twice. This is how it works and I can use it. In the slicer, I wrote (BT_TOOL_UNLOAD) before (T[next_extruder]).

I will post the video link when it is finished processing.

https://youtu.be/OjegZG3Apec

[opal ice]

So you should not have to call BT_TOOL_UNLOAD before T(n) as the T call will unload and then reload the next lane.

[opal ice]

Also watching your video the buffer should pull back after tip forming is done, also increasing your tool_max_unload_attempts value in AFC.cfg file to something bigger like 4 or 5 should give you better results and allow the buffer to retract correctly

[atomic ingot]

I can't find "max_unload attempts" in any cfg.

I added it

[opal ice]

Make sure it's tool_max_unload_attempts or klipper will complain, and needs to go into AFC.cfg file

[placid viper]

is that a line i have to add? i do not have that

also under what macro do i add it?

[placid viper]

and in regards to the tip forming and using .001 and so on that is what fixed it now i got a better and faster tip forming

[opal ice]

This was responding to soti

[placid viper]

i get that error from time to time too and ive asked where that setting is. so im seeing that it needs tobe added and im asking where exactly do i put it in the afc.cfg file

[opal ice]

Oh sure if you get it as well you can add it

[placid viper]

but where exactly? under what []?

i just put it under AFC]

[opal ice]

Under [AFC] IN AFC.cff

[placid viper]

OK that was my instinct

[opal ice]

If you are curious this document has most of the extra config values documented and what section they go under https://github.com/ArmoredTurtle/AFC-Klipper-Add-On/blob/main/docs%2FCONFIGURATION_OPTIONS.md

[ocean ember]

curious what setting you ended up with and what hotend/toolhead you are using. my tip forming has been weird too, seems OK during manual tip changes but then pulls blobs during a print