L2 BAN SYSTEM FEEDBACK AND THOUGHTS

[urban lark]

how is that condescending lol

i didnt say they were bad at anything other than white or that you suck if you arent used to anything other than white

[old vigil]

Hydra may have done irreparable damage to this community

[foggy axle]

well now you have

[marble nest]

i love green stake

ngl the new ban system just makes me want to jump off my rolly chair every time in the first 30 seconds bc I never ban correctly unless I leave gold nebula as 1 of the 2

[steady zealot]

I've always banned black first, am happiest with white/purple, and often just let my opponent pick what they want to play.
Now I just feel like I'm playing a lot more games on deck/stakes I dont enjoy that much & never have the opportunity to play my favs.

[fiery wave]

YOU SHOULD MAKE THE BAN UI LIKE THE OLD STAKES BAN BUT IN A COLLUM. I DONT WANT TO READ THE CHOICES AND THEN RE-READ THEM THEN GO TO THE DROP DOWN AND READ THEM AGAIN

THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE YOU WILL DO IT

[onyx basin]

it should definitely apply negative to those stakes to mess with u :D

[sinful steeple]

i dont like this not from a balance/wanting to play things im good at sense but because some decks and stakes just arent fun

and seeing a bunch of them at the same time sucks a ton

i dont want to play a deck & stake i actively dislike because my opponent banned specific things i do like

I always tried to ban green and purple since they seem pointless and boring

[uncut pine]

this system is basically exactly what I was hoping for with a pick/ban system, I love this so much, W devs

I have not played the same deck/stake combination since this system dropped which is so awesome when like half my games with the previous system ended up as red black

[icy palm]

https://tenor.com/view/utau-teto-plushie-false-kasane-teto-gif-8293509613414976119

https://tenor.com/view/morgon-freeman-true-bugburger2-true-fact-checked-by-patriots-wholesome-reddit-gif-13662132864673041294

[foggy axle]

ok but that means you either werent baning red, or were picking red

which is a you issue

lol

[uncut pine]

right, but that was the result when you pick/banned optimally

[foggy axle]

I banned red blue yellow always because I just wanted to play any actually interesting deck

in that sense I enjoy the variation

[tender bronze]

and then you get hit with a plasma, nebula zodiac deck choice

[foggy axle]

nebula or zodiac

do people not like zodiac

I feel like it has more appeal than ghost and less variance

[foggy plover]

how about we all agree we're all just condescending

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1426565427710005399/1469430665903607960/togif.gif

[opal adder]

i want white stake 😭 im stone for a reason

miss veto

[keen dove]

would love if the voting dropdown had these icons instead of the number emojis

[novel obsidian]

sigma take

[novel obsidian]

anyway, ill throw my hat in the ring. I think the system could benefit from more options. maybe 1 or 2 more starting combos to choose from. the point is to get players to play around with different stakes and decks. but, if a potentially interesting deck is tied in the options to a less attractive stake, players are less likely to pick it. maybe more chance for deck duplicates, but with different stakes? currently, all it would take for an interesting option to get completely banned is 1 of the 2 players not liking it. If for example the options had lets say- anaglyph\purple, anaglyph\black, +4 others, a "ghost white" player would have to use 2 bans to get rid of the more interesting option. in general, maybe more options will give more power to the flexible player, and put more burden on the picky one. would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

[frigid belfry]

I would like to see some player agency in what decks get picked

like maybe ranking the decks, each deck gets a score, then combine the scores, and only then make the random pairs
Ehh I forgot to finish this but I think this was meant to be random pairs with more chance for the higher rated decks and lower chance for the lower

[spiral kelp]

i love the new changes

[smoky bobcat]

Staff is going to try and find a way to make this work, we just have to do a bit of research first

Worst-case scenario is that we add every deck/stake combo in ranked as a server emoji and just pull from there

[smoky bobcat]

People like Zodiac, it’s the 4th most played deck this season in ranked

[eager comet]

i know this relies on both players but you can reroll the ban list

i wouldnt be opposed to adding 1-2 more decks if people wanted it but im fine with the current amount

7 feels fine for me personally but i dont see too much harm in widening that option count a bit

[paper jewel]

I love the ban system, and would keep it as is, but if people think its too much then I think maybe allowing each player to ban 1 deck OR stake before generation may make it a little more forgiving

[eager comet]

me playing gold stake and having ancient + bloodstone + chad + photo

[paper jewel]

Also just fyi the people providing feedback are not necessarily a representative sample of the player pool. I'd like to see intentional feedback from low MMR/ new players to BMP since jumping into multiplayer can be intimidating

[mellow fable]

I plan on putting out a full google form in a few days, but there needed a place in discord so people didnt call for my head

[eager comet]

this is like preliminary study fr yea

i think most of the changes if any would come from the form owen will make

[frozen juniper]

I'll also say, we're making sure we're account for new players to BMP too

[eager comet]

yes

jeff is on your side i can tell you that

[frozen juniper]

I speak for the stones

🗣️

[smoky bobcat]

He says as a steel

[frozen juniper]

can a low ranked steel not speak as a leader for the stones 🗣️

[smoky bobcat]

That’s for the stones to decide

[frozen juniper]

Can I become the elected stone official

🤔

[old vigil]

Have the stones elect their representative

[mellow fable]

The finplayer vs jordankeep election is going to be a bloody one

[iron summit]

I find the random stakes really annoying, I despise playing on anything other then gold or white

[supple tendon]

You have my vote

[frozen juniper]

the old system could force both of these to not happen

[iron summit]

but much less often

[old vigil]

I mean, doesnt JordanKeep win by default?

[frozen juniper]

thats because people only wanted to play on gold or white, this encourages more diversity in stakes

[iron summit]

why is that good?

[frozen juniper]

Prevents the game from feeling stale, prevents new players from only playing white stake which can make jumping into higher ranks harder when they can't only do that, makes new players either try new stakes or try new decks if they want gold stake

Alternatively, you can always bypass bans and just agree to a deck/stake you want

[frozen juniper]

what do we think

[unique stag]

switch the vertical anchoring

[frozen juniper]

Wdym

[unique stag]

deck anchored to bottom

stake anchored to top

[frozen juniper]

Oh you think so

@unique stag

the spacing got changed a bit in doing so but

I think this'll look worse imo

I like the bottom align more if I just move the stake over a bit to the left

[unique stag]

the bottom align just feels very wrong to me

instinctively it feels horrible

I don't quite know why

[frozen juniper]

hmmm

[unique stag]

either way I think we need a better way

I reckon we can just crop the corner off of the decks

[frozen juniper]

do you have like an example of a layout you think would be good for reference

[unique stag]

lemme see what I can cook up with that

[frozen juniper]

to be clear im mashing these up with code because there are like

235 combinations

that need to be made

but I can do a lot with that mashup with code lol

just need to know how it should be designed

[unique stag]

ye I assumed, lemme just cook rq

[frozen juniper]

🔥

[unique stag]

making some custom upscaled chip emojis

@frozen juniper

[frozen juniper]

oooh neat

could maybe treat this as a sticker on the deck?

[unique stag]

I'm trying to do that now

[frozen juniper]

W

[unique stag]

@frozen juniper thoughts on smth like this?

[frozen juniper]

hmmm

not sure how much im into the card being folded 😭

[unique stag]

like the main problem I'm thinking of is that we can't possibly have all the space for every combo

[frozen juniper]

what, in terms of emojis?

[unique stag]

it's the best way to break up the space

[frozen juniper]

the bot is storing those dw

it can hold 2000

lol

[unique stag]

ah fair

[frozen juniper]

What I was thinking was like a sticker on top of the deck

so slightly smaller stake but goes right on top

[unique stag]

it's gonna be too difficult to read

source: tried

[frozen juniper]

you think so?

[unique stag]

the visual noise was a bit too much

especially since some deck backs are harder to distinguish with the middle portion covered

and in the corner it just looked weird

hence me folding it in the first place

the folding was after trying a few ways to make it look good

[frozen juniper]

the folding is a creative solution but folding a card like that hurts my soul

lol

[unique stag]

oh fair but consider this

folding cards is a way to cheat at the casino

or just cheat in poker in general

so it's not thematically out of place either

really I tried a few different ways but it's just how balatro's deck backs are designed. the thick white outline messes with what I can do, especially while maintaining clarity

[frozen juniper]

can I at least see what the sticker version looks like im curious now lol

[unique stag]

it was the best compromise I could make in retaining artstyle while having clarity

[frozen juniper]

actually maybe I can put what im thinking together

one sec

[unique stag]

would be something like this

[frozen juniper]

this is basically what I was thinking

[unique stag]

problem is it's way too small

[frozen juniper]

the emote is bigger in the drop down

[unique stag]

the reason I made the upscaled chip in the first place was so you could actually see it

even then

[frozen juniper]

here

that is pretty small, hm

[unique stag]

mhm

basically impossible to see on certain combos

and it may actually be even smaller than that in some situations

the larger design is still visually clear even on smaller sizes

and even smaller

this design also makes better use of the fact that the emojis are squares

so you don't have a bunch of dead space

[kindred galleon]

I think this looks good. If you want it bigger you can move the stake up and to the left.

[unique stag]

top left stake is unnatural

stake needs to be on the right side

[eager comet]

i REALLY like this

[unique stag]

because of how players say decks

[frozen juniper]

hmmm ok actually it looks pretty good as an emote

[eager comet]

agreed

[unique stag]

we always say deck first, then stake

stake on the left breaks brain ordering

[eager comet]

also it just looks weird imo

[kindred galleon]

I meant move it "slightly" up and to the left (but did not write that my bad sry)

[unique stag]

ah

[frozen juniper]

with that option, yeah

but

[kindred galleon]

something like this

[frozen juniper]

aura's fits better admittedly together

[unique stag]

the problem with that design is it can be difficult to see certain combos clearly

[frozen juniper]

@unique stag only real issue is that I'd need a redesigned version of all of the decks and stakes for that lol

[eager comet]

already this is hard to read

[frozen juniper]

if you can get me those I can do that

[unique stag]

will take like 5 minutes

[frozen juniper]

ok sick

[eager comet]

and its not even at a smaller image size

[frozen juniper]

do that and I'll send it

I think this is good

[smoky bobcat]

Common Aura W

[kindred galleon]

that makes sense, good point

[eager comet]

btw its hard to read cause of colors

[unique stag]

already got them as separate segments lmao

[frozen juniper]

good feedback tho don't feel bad

[unique stag]

the fold is literally just a layer I can slap on top

[eager comet]

i admire the effort to add the face card imagery

[unique stag]

yeah I thought of that at the end

[frozen juniper]

just so you're aware, this will need to include the mp exclusive stakes as well, and the all of the mp decks

[eager comet]

it prolly will be barely seen sadly if the stake goes there

[eager comet]

wait can mp stakes show up in the ban system

[frozen juniper]

if you need the mp stake images I have those

[unique stag]

oh yeah it's barely seen

but it's fine

[eager comet]

yea

[frozen juniper]

in sandbox

[unique stag]

send em along

[eager comet]

its like making a cabinet and using a shit piece of wood on the back

[eager comet]

i see

[eager comet]

i feel bad knowing its there

[frozen juniper]

(also I want it to account for all options)

(just in case)

[eager comet]

yea

i want mp stakes yo fr

[unique stag]

I just slap this layer on top of the deck and delete the green

[eager comet]

how do you both love and hate umamusume

[unique stag]

just happens with a game you play too much

will send everything along in staff server @frozen juniper

[frozen juniper]

sounds good

[unique stag]

we'll add a few popular combos as server emojis too

[frozen juniper]

sounds good

[eager comet]

ghost white emoji

i can litearlly

react

bad takes

with ghost white

[cyan tinsel]

hitting bad takes with the ⁉️

[mellow fable]

anyways this got very off topic

feedback plz

[foggy axle]

how many permutations are there of this

[marble nest]

17 * 5?

Well I guess the ranked ones

[foggy axle]

I guess we do have enough emote slots for that

[hollow trellis]

[frigid belfry]

🇨 🇧 🇦

[frozen juniper]

264

[frozen juniper]

the bot can hold 2000 emotes in itself

we've got more than enough room

[frozen epoch]

Very much not a fan of this system, to the point I will now avoid playing until this trial is over

Not tryna be that boo hoo guy but this is not the answer

[frozen juniper]

wuold you care to elaborate

[night needle]

Booo

It's the best

[frozen juniper]

as thus far this system has been quite popular, and there is a solid chance it sticks

[frozen epoch]

I ban those decks cos I dont have any interest in playing them lol

Thats the point in banning

[frozen juniper]

the problem with that, which this system is trying to fix, is people playing the same like 5 decks and thats it

and the same like 2 stakes

[frozen epoch]

Is that really a problem tho?

[frozen juniper]

yes

people have complained about it very often

the game feeling stale

[frozen epoch]

Hmmmmm

[frozen juniper]

there's a reason ghost white is a meme

lol

you also can ask your opponent if you want to play some other deck

and stake

that is still fully allowed

you could ignore the entire system if you want and do bans your own way

if the other person agrees

I encourage you to give it some more time and learn some new decks, it'll be good for the game

[frozen epoch]

Yeah valid. Why not just make this another game mode?

Ive played every deck many a time, I have c++. I just dont enjoy playing some of them

[frozen juniper]

Nobody will play it if it's another mode

What we are doing is diversifying what combos can be picked

Like in the future

This gives us a lot of control

[frozen epoch]

Ok what about have the original banning as the default but theres an option for these random combos if both players click the agree buttojn

[frozen juniper]

Defeats the purpose, most players will opt not to do it and most games will be played on the same few decks/stakes

[frozen epoch]

So then most players wont want this new system lol

[frozen juniper]

Making people do it is the only way to break the game from the stale same sets of decks and stakes

[frozen juniper]

The old system is more advantageous

For the players

Which is not necessarily a perfect thing

[frozen epoch]

Rather than who?

[frozen juniper]

The new system promotes having a diverse set of options you can play

We may increase the ban set to 9

As well

So there will be lots of options to pick from

[frozen epoch]

I think this is a mistake

[frozen juniper]

However I encourage you to put down your feedback in the upcoming form

And vote on the upcoming poll

As that's what will very much determine what we do

This is a trial run after all

[frozen epoch]

Yeah valid,

[frozen epoch]

I think this is the answer. If both players are bored of ghost white or whatever they can go for this

I personally could play ghost white forever

[frozen juniper]

I'm happy for you

[frozen epoch]

Its more enjoyable

[frozen juniper]

Ghost white is so unbelievably stale

To me

lol

It has such easy metas and such easy access to said metas

[frozen epoch]

Yeah which is very much more apealing to the casuals

[frozen juniper]

Yeah then those casuals get higher ranked and get hit with the ghost deck white stake ban and then the game becomes too hard too quick

There's too much of a reliance

This system helps that

By promoting you trying out lots of combos in ranked as a new player

[frozen epoch]

But thats not what the players want

[frozen juniper]

The actual sets of what can be picked can be tweaked endlessly but the pure system I like

[frozen epoch]

In my opinion at least

[frozen juniper]

That's what the poll and form will be for

To determine if it is what the players want

[frozen epoch]

Yeah ok cool

[frozen juniper]

Like if it polls badly and people don't like it

[frozen epoch]

If thats the way it ends up then fair enough

[frozen juniper]

Yeah

We won't do it

And if it's like 50/50

We'll figure something out

[frozen epoch]

I personally like to jump on for a few games before bed every now and then. I cba to go through black deck gold stake and insta lose elo when im just tryna chill

But I get people play it differenetly

[frozen juniper]

No real change will make everyone happy

There was a large subset of players who really hated the previous bans

[frozen epoch]

Giving the option makes everyone happy

lol

[frozen juniper]

Giving the option is both overwhelming to new players while also having the other one be objectively better for gaining MMR so nobody is gonna do the other one

You gotta do one or the other

[frozen epoch]

I imagine lots of the higher rank players are the ones in favour for new ban systems, in that case they will match up against each other more often

And they can mutually decide

[frozen juniper]

There's been a variety of players who like and don't like it

Which is why we will poll and form and see what people all in all think

If you want your voice heard put your thoughts in that cause that's what will truly determine if we keep it or not

We will read it I'll tell you that

[smoky bobcat]

Friendly reminder that you can always ask your opponent “ ?” In the queue and if they agree, you just bypass the ban system exclusively

[frozen epoch]

Yeah ok cool, im not tryna be a dick just wanted to voice my opinion as I was quite disappointed to read that announcement. For me its a game changer and I wont be playing but I get everyone has different opinions so that fine. Thank you for explanation and Im not blaming anyone for trying something new

[frozen juniper]

Nah you're not a dick

You've made reasonable opinions about it

It's ok if you don't like it, that's why we have this thread and we're gathering feedback

For me the biggest thing is that we have to be willing to try stuff

So ideally, 2 weeks with this, let people try it and get used to it

See what people think

Then decide from there

[frozen epoch]

Yeah all good all good

[frozen juniper]

I don't think it'll go into effect until next season after this trial

Also

[smoky bobcat]

Trust, there have been others people in this thread much closer to dicks than you lmao

[frozen juniper]

So you'll be able to finish the season with old bans

[frozen juniper]

Yeah lol you've been quite respectful

I fully respect your opinion on it

Thanks for being reasonable lol

I'm not in the interest of making every ranked player mad lol

[frozen juniper]

Fun that we have an emote for that now

❓

[errant mica]

I think the big issue with it is at lower ranks- you run into people who genuinely cannot play the game well enough to survive gold stakes and its so lame to win in 3 antes

Im aware the solution is to get good but still

[smoky bobcat]

There has been discussion of adding something similar to veto from the old system that would guarantee 3 white stake options for queues with stone players.

“That way the stone player either gets a white stake game or gets full choice over the other 4 if the high ranker bans all white stakes”

[errant mica]

That would definitley be a good change

[hollow trellis]

My opponents still find a way to force white stake can we just ban low ranks thanks

[violet ledge]

if most players would opt to not use a system by mutual agreement, is that not a very strong argument against that system?

[frozen juniper]

No, what I'm saying is that the other system is easier for better players to game and get easy MMR off of by playing the same decks and stakes they always play over and over again

[violet ledge]

it's a fully symmetric game? I'm not sure how this would benefit one player more than others unless that player is actually better at the game

If eventually they will start getting their stakes banned and start losing, that sounds like mmr normalization at work

[violet ledge]

there's been a lot of very valid points made by many people that this is not at all a very good fallback for a variety of reasons

[frozen juniper]

the last thing I will say at this point about it is that we have a poll and will be listening to the feedback of that poll. Feel free to put in your thoughts there

[sinful steeple]

diverse /= more enjoyable though

[violet ledge]

Well it is for some people, the ones that came up with this change

[frozen juniper]

And also the people who have responded positively to it

[urban lark]

yeah its hard to gauge a general opinion but from what ive seen its been fairly half and half

in terms of who likes it and who doesnt

[frozen juniper]

hence why we are doing the poll/feedback form

[eager comet]

its also a new system and one that also is pushing towards playing decks/stakes you dont often play normally

so i think it might be a case of people disliking something they arent used to

on some level

[sinful steeple]

ggs

[old vigil]

Hey so first of, thanks for the respectful and constructive feedback. If you think about it, the inverse is what's implemented right now, and to me it makes sense to make it be that way. It's way easier to reproduce the old bans system manually than it is to reproduce the new one, as such it would make more sense if we want to give the option to make the new one the default and the more manually implementable an option players can agree on.

[old vigil]

The old bans is more appealing to casuals, heck even no bans would probably be more appealing to casuals, but we want to foster a better ranked environment where more of your skill is tested. The ideal world would be that we have so many people in the community if you want to run 1 or 2 casual games you'd be able to on the casual queue.

[foggy shale]

I'm loving the new ban system, works pretty great, offers interesting choices I guess. The other one is easier, but the new one is better in ranked

[spiral sundial]

has there been any consideration on putting most played combos on the list? if not allg bc i know u guys want variety =D

[midnight pine]

i really dislike the new ban system, pretty experienced player and i feel like it just offers a lot less choice / freedom

without really giving much benefit

also increases randomness a lot

[spiral sundial]

i believe that is what they want

[midnight pine]

i think if you want to increase the variety of deck /stake choices there are much better systems

[spiral sundial]

they dont want to know who the best white stake X deck player,

theyd rather have you be able to get dropped into a random seed no matter deck/stake and perform the best

its really a question of what you think being "skilled" at balatro is

& if u dont like any of the combos u can offer a different deck in the chat and most ppl would prob be down

[spiral sundial]

randomness in what way? each player is experiencing the same "randomness"

[old vigil]

Could you propose one?

[midnight pine]

u can do this with any system though

[delicate bolt]

Yeah i havent really had any fun matches since it got added, always just end up getting some weird deck and high stake and then no good jokers

Just feels like I’m barely surviving the whole game

[midnight pine]

there's no money at stake, this a game we choose to play as a community. So if as a community we decide that we dont like this ranked thats perfectly fine. why does a small group of people get to decide the objective function we use here?

[delicate bolt]

It seems very odd to add more randomness to the ranked mode, its very unintuitive

[spiral sundial]

i understand your frustrations but do you just not enjoy higher stake multiplayer?

[midnight pine]

i play a lot of gold and black stake

[old vigil]

This is true, that is why this is a trial run, we will have a poll and a form to fill once the trial is over

[delicate bolt]

I do not, but its not just about stake, its also largely about deck

I dont mind playing high stake yellow or ghost deck for example, but then you have zodiac deck or black deck

Maybe if they didnt allow there to be many of the same deck with different stakes in the options it would be slightly better

[old vigil]

You can't get a deck offered more than 2 times afaik

[spiral sundial]

3 ^ i believe unless changed

[delicate bolt]

Yeah i think i remember it being 3

[old vigil]

Really? I thought it was 3 for stakes and 2 for decks

[delicate bolt]

So often I’m just getting my least favorite decks and high stakes

I’m definitely curious to see the poll results though, maybe my thinking is just bias due to playing lots of other ranked games throughout my life

[old vigil]

You can ban 3 out of the 7 decks, unless you dislike most stake deck pairs it's statically improbable to keep playing your most disliked decks and stakes

[delicate bolt]

Unless your opponent bans the deck you like

I will say, i have hardly seen ghost deck at all

That seems to be everyones favorite but im not seeing it hardly ever

[spiral sundial]

they were tired of seeing ppl only playing ghost deck

[spiral sundial]

its kinda a reward when u get it in the queue rather than playing 50 matches of the same stake/deck

[delicate bolt]

Do you know why exactly that is? Its hard for me to understand

[spiral sundial]

you can also offer 3 decks to play if ur really hating the queue system that much

its called "ranked" balatro and we're playing for "positioning" while most ppl are playing for fun they want to shine light on the competitive side of the game

[old vigil]

Well, now we went from the decks/stakes I dislike most to I cant play the deck I like most, which is fair, dont get me wrong, but a different argument

[mellow fable]

the probabilities are uniform, theres no tinkering happening to stop you from playing ghost.

in no other ranked game do you get to dodge more than 2/3rds of the "maps" if you want to draw that equivalence, so the idea is to lower the number of deck stake combos you can dodge

[delicate bolt]

Do you not think that removing randomness would make it more competitive?

[mellow fable]

now I will admit, the needle may have been pushed too far, but thats the purpose of the test is it not!

[mellow fable]

its not "randomness" its rewarding the people that are more well rounded

[spiral sundial]

i think if possible having this system for players higher than gold might show some results?

[old vigil]

If that was the case we would be playing abandoned deck every game

[delicate bolt]

I guess that is a fair way to look at it

[spiral sundial]

i personally have come to like it but given that lower players wanna learn how to play first i get there outlook

[urban lark]

its a ranked gamemode though having a uneven playing field for players kind of defeats the purpose of mmr as a way of representing skill

[spiral sundial]

lots not lie tho

if u want to play and dont have friends that play this game ur queueing ranked for a game

[urban lark]

that is true

[old vigil]

I meaaaaan... as much as you improve by playing ranked, it is not the place to learn

[spiral sundial]

1000000000000000000%

[urban lark]

but thats because ranked had just proven itself to be more interesting than casual

[spiral sundial]

but you can only learn so much from yt

[delicate bolt]

Yeah i do mostly just play for enjoyment but nobody i know plays

Maybe thats why I’m complaining lol

[spiral sundial]

i was in the same boat as u

so i get were you're coming from

[old vigil]

There's tons of truly wonderful people in this community, more interaction in main hub, random threads and the likes will net you some friends that enjoy playing the game

[spiral sundial]

yeah but socialising is scary

ex dee

[old vigil]

I have seen a lot of people push back on the idea of interaction with your opponent and socializing but at that point why are we playing a miltiplayer game in a community environment

[spiral sundial]

i think to be apart of a community you dont need to have a voice

[old vigil]

And like, be honest, you've been interacting here with a lot of people just fine

[old vigil]

(Not you personal, more like the people pushing back)

[spiral sundial]

i assumed thats what you meant my fren

[old vigil]

You don't need to but it will greatly enhance your experience imo

And is what pushes forward the community

[spiral sundial]

indeed it is but not every person has to be the flag bearer

[old vigil]

No one expects anyone to be, like no one has to take a leadership role or a speaker role, I'm just saying people would benefit a lot from interacting in a multiplayer game

With this I don't mean spend 20 hours a week talking with randos on main hub

I mean dropping a message here or there from time to time

[spiral sundial]

yeah exactly what i've been trying to do whenever im in a match ill usually just have a little convo before or after

[old vigil]

That's awesome

[spiral sundial]

most ppl are super nice and its kinda what got me into voicing my opinions bc everyone seems to be swag,,, ,,

[pure jasper]

Hey, as a really bad stone rank player, I thought I'd give my feedback

I personally really like the new ban system. At least in low rank lobbies, I kept getting stuck with white stake and people wanting to play the same decks over and over. I actually stopped playing mp for a bit due to it being a bit repetitive. This new system makes it something new and interesting every game. I can say that in low ranks (in the old system), you're either sent to Black Stake or White Stake (People generally ban either all low stake or all high, meeting either at black or the white), and now getting sent to the hell known as purple stake actually makes things interesting. Sure it's harder, but it's something new

Now I absolutley understand why some people are against the system. Some people (at least a few opponents) get really frustrated when they get a pool of decks they really don't like. They like trying to push for high scores and this makes it hard to do so

but since I care more about variety, this new system is fun for me

[foggy axle]

I feel that calling this "gaming the system" is somewhat disingenuous, I see what you are trying to argue but that is quite literally just an expression of skill with consistency

[foggy axle]

This is the dichotomy between the two ban systems, one rewards consistency and one rewards being decent at all options.

I think the latter makes more sense in a ranked environment; learning to be an all rounder is primarily just macro decision making, and then you just play around whatever deck/stake you have to play, which does seem like the best format to keep ranked healthy long term

_ _
I do wonder if, assuming this change is implemented, if we will see an uptick in casual or other queues, or just an overall decrease from the opposing players, or if they would just adapt

[cosmic otter]

I doubt will see an actual decrease in player count (seeing as since the update the queues have been more popular than ever)

[foggy axle]

I was primarily thinking about existing playerbase, not like rate of change

since mlb is ongoing we are going to be in a pretty steady upswing

[cosmic otter]

Maybe more people will play casual but like people prefer ranked cause its ranked so i doubt it

[foggy axle]

If people just want to play , etc, against someone else, and not deal with new ban system, that seems like the optimal use case for the casual queue, but I guess people might also want to gain mmr while doing so

[cosmic otter]

They want to win mmr i think

[foggy axle]

doesnt casual technically have mmr

just not a leaderboard

[cosmic otter]

It does how mmr but from what i heard that might be changed

What do you think of the ban system though?

[foggy axle]

from an objective point, these are basically my thoughts

personally, I prefer consistency, but am fine playing basically anything other than plasma, I just may lose more

[cosmic otter]

Yeah im in the same boat as you lol

[foggy axle]

like I find rby boring, green is basically just a nothing deck once you have any econ, nebula just feels bad to play, plasma feels too different (this one is personal), those would basically always be my bans

and I would be fine playing anything else

if that results in my opp picking decks I play a lot, im going to pick the decks I enjoy and think I play well

[cosmic otter]

Yeah i just feel like higher stake have to much variance with the my current play style and i like having a fast start ie(zodiac orange magic yellow and so on)

[foggy axle]

playing the random random tt basically makes me look at this as an alternative system to random random that is in some ways better, and others worse

[worthy tinsel]

hmm i prefer the old system

[keen dove]

I LOVE THE NEW ICONS THX TEAM

[kindred galleon]

~~I feel slightly cursed even suggesting this... ~~
Available Options: (current version: not aligned)
1. Red Deck / White Stake
2. Green Deck / Green Stake
3. Plasma Deck / Green Stake
7. Erratic Deck / Gold Stake
vs
Available Options: (proposed version: aligned)
1. Red Deck / White Stake
2. Green Deck / Green Stake
3. Plasma Deck / Green Stake
7. Erratic Deck / Gold Stake

[steady zealot]

If we removed black stake, used the old ban system for stakes, and the new system for decks only id be pretty happy.

• First to ban can force low or high stake
• a random subset of decks will still give deck variety
• I don’t see black stake as a healthy competitive ruleset & we’ve changed the game before to make for better competitive play. p/g handle the risk reward of eternals much better than black. With no blind increases, eternals only create variance & praying the seed rewards your decision imo.

[cosmic otter]

One of the main ideas of the new system is forcing players to choose what they care about (deck/stake) a change like this renoves that entire idea + even though i agree with that statement about black not everyone does and that just means people will get mad at being forced to purple/green as a 50/50

[keen dove]

L take black stake so fun

[steady zealot]

Interesting. Why?

[cosmic otter]

Example of people not thinking like this on black ^^^

[keen dove]

i hate rentals on gold but i love eternals because they can create such interesting builds

[cosmic otter]

Eternals are also a skill btw

[smoky bobcat]

Removing black stake and going back to the old system leaves us with 4 stakes, meaning 1 player will get to ban 2 stakes while the other only bans 1, giving that first player twice as much power, which is unfair.

[steady zealot]

Fair. Getting like 5 barons is fun.

[steady zealot]

Idk if I agree. I think they play a great role with bigger blind increases but betting on if an early eternal is worth it feels like a luck of the draw almost every time

[fallen sequoia]

Eh I play black almost exclusively (now less so with the new system) and it's never really bothered me. It's usually obvious which eternals are correct to take and the person who takes the right eternals will usually win. I don't mind the additional variance because this is a poker game, I don't mind players being rewarded for taking a risky line while they're losing from time to time

I'm also not sure if the variance on black is higher than purple in the first place

[cosmic otter]

Do you play black cause you're trying to go for gold or just trying to force black?

[fallen sequoia]

I force black

I started doing it to "game" the system since it ensures my opponents always play on my best stake. It's the main reason I'm happy the system changed because it's a goofy thing to do

Like to me this being possible is ridiculous (it looked even worse before the new system)

[cosmic otter]

Look at a stones white 😭

[gilded jungle]

Yo , I read a bit of everything here
I approve the changes of the ban system , good to improve as a bmp player instead of a white stake bmp player.

Take care that will push people to learn and put a bit more effort into the game, and many fragile people will go say "ouin ouin you monsters 😿 ", but try to keep a cold head, that's an evolution in the good way.

[fallen sequoia]

At least they have the excuse that they're too bad at the game to have fun while playing other stakes, which is valid and why some kind of veto system needs to be in place

[smoky bobcat]

If we do add a veto, it would be guaranteeing 3/7 options (or 4/9 if we jump to 9) being guaranteed as white stakes for stone player queues

This either gives them a white stakes game or gives them full control out of the other options if the other player bans all white stakes

[fallen sequoia]

Yeah I saw that idea floating around, seems like a good compromise

[cosmic otter]

Btw how would that work? Like roll until there is 3 or start from 3 and roll the other 4 like normal

[smoky bobcat]

No clue, that’s up to Jeff/Cas lol

[cosmic otter]

It impacts how much white they will play by a lot

[bright dawn]

Black stake becomes incredibly consistent as you play it more. It’s become my favorite stake for that exact reason. It gives the most control to the player while also limiting econ and making seeds more difficult. Green stake and purple stake lean too far in either direction.

[gleaming umbra]

True green stake is very inconsistent

Blinds scale pretty quick

[fallen sequoia]

You could say they sneak up on you

[bright dawn]

Eternal decision making comes naturally with experience and changes significantly based on the seed and your opponent’s behavior. Reading these things and becoming more aware of value in the seed is part of the skill expression.

[steady zealot]

Interesting. I’ve never heard that opinion. Do you feel that’s true in a BO1 format?

[bright dawn]

I don’t feel that way about any deck or stake in a bo1 format

[steady zealot]

Curious what you think about shop 1 eternal dice, dna, scary face, acro?

[bright dawn]

In a bo3 I think the skill gap between players shows strongest on black stake

Depends on the deck, but typically you can only take dice

[steady zealot]

I can agree with that. My opinion on black is completely based on random queued ranked

[bright dawn]

Then I don’t believe you’ll ever find satisfaction with the natural variance of this game

There’s so much that goes on to randomly swing the game one way or the other on every deck and stake, and you can’t really see it without both povs

[steady zealot]

Thanks for the take.

[keen dove]

look at MY white

im so ass at bmp

[round bison]

I’d just generate normally then replace three non-white stakes with white at random

[steady zealot]

Fair lol. In my mind one of the most punishing variances in the game is the choice of picking up an early eternal that would be a snap pickup otherwise. I’m happier with this on p/g because there’s a more pressing need for building momentum or taking early lives

[mellow fable]

Ive watched estrakami take eternals you wouldn't believe on black stake, theres a monster skill gap on white stake, it just so happens that you lose sometimes to shitty eternals

[bright dawn]

You can kinda just skip most early game eternals on black and set up a winning end game. If you do choose to take them, you have to create the tempo lines yourself to force your opponent into taking them as well

I think black stake is super dynamic

[steady zealot]

It’s my favorite tournament stake to watch & works great in bo3 or against players you can scout for sure

[round bison]

thank you, that change has been implemented :)

[round bison]

btw white stake is now 1.25x and green is 0.75x

which makes it very likely to see multiple white stakes

[mellow fable]

Is that implemented now?

[round bison]

yeah

gonna do veto now

and then i guess we can revert white back to normal when veto is done (?)

[mellow fable]

keep it fo a bit see how it feels

[round bison]

okely cool

people wont notice anything but they just need to belive it exists lol

[smoky bobcat]

Is this still with a maximum of 3 occurences per stake?

[round bison]

i lowky want to implement a simulation in the bot so we can see how odds are actually affecting it, and if i messef up

[round bison]

yeah

until we move to 9 then itll automatically be bumped up to 4

[smoky bobcat]

Oh so we are moving to 9, nice

[round bison]

i thin

k

[mellow fable]

if you wanna do it in the bot thats cool but also that would take me 1.3s in R

[round bison]

i mean you'd have to transfer the code to R no?

like part of it is i want to make sure i didnt fuck up my code

[mellow fable]

ah fair enough

theres a library for everything in R lol

anyways

[round bison]

lmao true

[mellow fable]

veto and up to 9 and I think were cooking

[round bison]

i could also just send over results from it and you hook it up

[smoky bobcat]

Has it?

[round bison]

idk why 1 is misaligned but yes

ill look into it and see if theres a more robust way of aligning it

rn im doing
**1.**

well

not that

1.

okay i might need to switch arounf something then

[frigid belfry]

it shows this

[round bison]

in queue it does rn?

[frigid belfry]

like 15 min ago

[round bison]

mb lol

ill fix

1. -
2. -
3. -
4. -

[frigid belfry]

it happens only after reroll

[round bison]

oh LMAO

i did it in the wrong place ig

[foggy axle]

⁉️

[smoky bobcat]

This likely won't last

I think this is just until the veto? But I don't get the point either

[foggy axle]

I dont have any strong opinion on it, I just think its interesting

[mellow fable]

cas can rig it so all my bans are black gold

[foggy axle]

it would seem like they were already

[eager comet]

indeed, thats why we want to poll and make sure people are actually in favor + collect feedback

[foggy plover]

You will never have to play a game of black gold on the new format still

[eager comet]

there are indeed a lot of pople that like it

[eager comet]

yea even with this system you can still prevent playing things that you really hate

[foggy plover]

Yeah like I feel like people are equating not being able to chose the deck you play to having to play decks you don’t like

Which are not the same

[cyan tinsel]

even with the old system sometimes id queue into low mmr players whod ask "ghost white?" as the first thing theyd say

[foggy plover]

Yep

[eager comet]

👀

im a changed man

[mellow fable]

speaking head fire

[eager comet]

also i will be real

i think the real solution to this problem is make casual more appealing

because like, to me the point of ranked is ofc to have fun but also improve

because its rating based, it has stakes to make you more invested

if you lose, you lose mmr which ideally makes a player want to try and improve so they can gain more

ofc like, thats not the end all be all of ranked but personally for me when i play ranked games, its also because i want to try and play seriously and get better even if that means im playing a map or agent or whatever that im not as comfortable with

the issue to me is that like lwk casual has far less players than ranked, if i get tired of ranked in any other game i just hop into a casual queue

i already think its more than fair to not apply this ban system to every queue, only the ranked ones

[foggy plover]

If I get tired of rank I hop on terraria 🗣️ 🔥

[eager comet]

ew dont you know that 1.4.5 is actually bad and the worst update ever and also the new calam update is also bad and that i hate fun and balance changes and new things

[eager comet]

when i get tired of balatro i hop on gambonanza

[mellow fable]

stay on topic in feedback form difficulty impossible

if anyone is spying here I still want feedback

[eager comet]

owen when he sees 3 off topic messages 🙄

jk

[mellow fable]

one more

[eager comet]

owen is a good admin

[eager comet]

well to reiterate what i think makes most sense, i do think this should only be the system used for ranked and smallworld queues

[cyan tinsel]

no

[frozen epoch]

Yeah of course not but you get the point, I wanna jump on a play ghost white, yellow white or zodiac white. Something thats gonna be fun enough to get going and have a good run, not black deck which is a ball ache to get going. Nebula which has one tarot spot. Painted which only has 4 joker slots. Erratic which could just be some shite deck. Green which is just silly econ. You get the point. I ban those because I would rather not play than play them 🤣

[grizzled wadi]

stop the painted hate

[foggy plover]

Painted is so good bro

So much hate for the best high stakes deck

[frozen epoch]

Nah painted is awful 🤣

[foggy plover]

Bro trust me

Try painted purple

It’s so nice

[frozen epoch]

If you want the answer just force white stake cocktail. Ill accept that

Every single game

[foggy plover]

LOL

[foggy plover]

How much have you played of it just curious? Like how much are you being forced into playing those decks on white stake

Cuz I’ve just been banning white every game

[frozen epoch]

Barely cos I insta ban them

lol

[foggy plover]

LMAO

And then what you end up playing like black stake red etc?

[frozen epoch]

Ive got c++ so ive played my fair shair of every deck but multiplayer wise I dont play them

white stake mostly

If not black

I ban gold down

[foggy plover]

Gotcha, so you still don’t have to play those awkward decks on the new format?

Or if you do rarely

[frozen epoch]

Yeah ok but if I wanted to play white stake but the only white stake that comes up is some retardo deck then I cant pick something I wanna play

I get people want some change

But personally I like to play the same decks

and stakes

[foggy plover]

Yeah but it hasn’t really happened right? You still have a lot of agency and get to play mostly normal decks and stakes. This seems still similar to old ban system , most of the time people will go white red etc, but you also might go against people like me who ban all the ghost zodiac decks and go up to high stakes

[frozen epoch]

Ok but I face someone like you once in a blue moon, with this new system I am put in that situation every game

I dont mind one in 10 having to be high stake hard deck

Thats fine

But the fact is with this new system there will be at most 1 deck stake combo that I acutally wanna play

likely be at most*

Ive even given people the win before playing before when they ban white stake. I can play it, I just dont want to

[foggy plover]

So we are going to be going up to 9, which will give you probably 2 options you like.

[foggy plover]

That’s crazy 😭 LMAO

[frozen epoch]

how many permutations are there?

[foggy plover]

Like 17 * 5

[frozen epoch]

Ok so lets say the ones I wouldnt mind playing: ghost white, yellow white, zodiac white, red white, blue white. They are the ones I would chose to play. 5/85 is 1 in 17. If we get 9 options its still unlikely. Granted I could add a couple more in there but getting nowhere near 18 good deck stake combos

[foggy plover]

I think still that wanting to play such a limited pool is a problem

I think a big problem is that there’s no casual queue

[cosmic otter]

are you saying you wont play anything else?

[frozen epoch]

Do you not think there is a reason most games end up ghost white? Its cos thats what most people want to play

Not that I wont, with some I would rather not play than play them but not all the rest no

Like I get youre trying something new with this but youre taking away the freedom of choice

It doesnt really make sense to me

If you get people complaining about ghost white all the time then just tell them to ban it and they will never have to see it again 🤣

[frigid belfry]

we just need casual queue to be not dead

[cosmic otter]

its a competitive environment you cant expect to be good at just the tip of the iceberg and say thats fine competitively

[frozen epoch]

Make tournaments use this version then

Keep ranked as is

[smoky bobcat]

This is going to sound harsh, but it sounds that just don’t enjoy Balatro Multiplayer overall, and just enjoy a very small percentage. We want the people near the top of ranked to be good at Balatro Multiplayer as a whole, show that they are good at the entire game.

[frozen epoch]

Ok so what about everyone else?

Just catering for the top 10% isnt the answer

[smoky bobcat]

People who enjoy Balatro Multiplayer, which is most people in the ranked queues, will continue to use them.

Otherwise they can go to casual queue, where we won’t be using this system

[frozen epoch]

Casual just seems pointless tho, you jump on cs youre not gonna go play casual

[frigid belfry]

I do think that more agency over your choices, at least <lucky is a must (the random ones)

[smoky bobcat]

We are adding in a veto-esque system that guarantees 3/7 or 4/9 of the options as white stake for the stone player queues

[frozen epoch]

And trust me I do enjoy balatro multiplayer, I even made a youtube channel dedicated to just balatro multiplayer like 6 months back. I stopped uploading as I stepped away from it and since then have been playing just casually

Another example is counter stike, look at how they do premier. Its the same ban system bmp used to use

Ok this is a compromise, but what about each player puts forward 3 deck-stake combinations each. The bot then just randomly picks one out of those 6

That way I still have a 50% chance to play something I want

But I could play something completley different

That makes everyone happy no?

[grizzled wadi]

Thats just a coin flip every game on a bad day that sucks so bad

[frozen epoch]

But going into a game now is just an even worse coin flip

[grizzled wadi]

U pick deck and stake

I dont have any say

[frozen epoch]

?

[mellow fable]

the black gold nebula gold and plasma gold im tossing up there is gonna hit like crack

[frozen epoch]

🤣

I genuniely think thats a good alternative

[mellow fable]

that also, encourages niche strengths, which is exactly what were trying to not do

[frozen epoch]

I would rather lose to someone thats incredible at one deck than not get to play a deck stake combo I like in 5 games

[grizzled wadi]

Also u should be able to avoid a spefic deck at all costs like this system

[smoky bobcat]

3 of them, even!

[frozen epoch]

Then the other person should get to ban 6!

lol

just playing

[grizzled wadi]

Causes the same stuff every game then

[frozen epoch]

Lobby starts> p1 bans one deck> p2 bans one deck> each player picks 2 deck-stake combos> bot decides

In a case of an overlap that deck stake just has a higher chance, no problem there cos both players wanted to play it

[grizzled wadi]

^

[frozen epoch]

This part: p1 bans one deck> p2 bans one deck

[grizzled wadi]

Thats 1 not 3 as it is currently is

[frozen epoch]

Ok both players ban 2 then

4 decks banned

then go from there

[grizzled wadi]

Also just having the bot decide is not healthy because of bad luck

[frozen epoch]

Well its LITERALLY random atm what do you mean 🤣

[grizzled wadi]

Like bot picks your thing 3 games in a row not me

[grizzled wadi]

The random decks isnt the problem, its the feeling of having 0 controll of what your playing which sucks

[frozen epoch]

You have a 50% chance of one of your combos being picked. Sounds completley fair to me. If you play enough games you will get your pick half the time

At the moment I have literally 0 control if a combo I want is gonna be there

At least that way I have 50%

[grizzled wadi]

Theres going to be 9, u got to stop playing the same 3 decks every time and be flexible with multiple things.

U have equal controll on the ban system, what your saying isnt equal controll

[frozen epoch]

Brother its like a default response anytime I say something that you cant disagree with

Anyway rant over, I hope you guys consider that approach, I think if you want change thats the way to go

Controlled random > completley random

[eager comet]

exactly

[eager comet]

i will

[frozen epoch]

Valid but that’s not normal lol

[eager comet]

says who

also realistically comp is basically a casual mode in todays cs2 and tons of people also play that myself included

[frozen epoch]

Yeah agreed, I do as well as a bit of a piss around

[eager comet]

this kind of comes back to my point that if you want to play purely for fun then a more casual mode is better

in bmps case, casual queue is basically the same as ranked but no mmr

similar to how comp is the same format as premier in cs2

ofc, this is not addressing the fact that casual queue is not often used in this server

thats the main issue in my eyes with this line of reasoning that i am making

[frozen epoch]

But it’s not purely for fun, i play for both gaining elo and for fun. And that’s perfect before I got both, but the new system takes away the fun on occasions

[foggy plover]

ok so

TB

[frozen epoch]

Hello

[foggy plover]

i want to put out a point rq

you havent played a game of the new system

[frozen epoch]

Yah

Yeah

[foggy plover]

so why are you complaining

play it

[eager comet]

yo what 😭

[frozen epoch]

Because I have read how it works

[eager comet]

thats not enough

[foggy plover]

and ive read books on quantum physics

please, play a few games on the new system and then come back

[frozen epoch]

I’ll give it a go at some point, I am just telling you that I know for a fact I won’t enjoy it as much as it meets my criteria less often

[eager comet]

im sure you arent wrong but you cant say its bad or that you will hate it without playing it

[frozen epoch]

In this case I can

[eager comet]

you cant

[frozen epoch]

In some you are right

[eager comet]

you can say u might like it less

but u gotta play it to know for sure

where exactly you lie

on that spectrum from loving to hating

[frozen epoch]

But something that is logically layed out like this with no other external factors I can

[eager comet]

not really no

[foggy plover]

there are external factors

the external factors are what your opponent does

[eager comet]

its the same reason why for balance changes 90% of the time you cant just say a given change is good or bad

you need to try them first

this is a situation where we have seen time and time again its not enough just to discuss a change, yes it does get you a lot of the way there but it needs to be tried in practice

[frozen epoch]

Ok let’s define my enjoyment as playing a combo I like. I am statistically gonna see a combo I like less since there’s a chance it doesn’t even show up in the options. Where as before I go into a game with a chance of playing at least something I like

[eager comet]

my argument is not that you wont like it less

my argument is that you shouldnt start making objections to a system without playing it

lets say you play it and you do like it less, but not that much less

in that case if a lot of other people like it (we will see if this is true when the feedback form is out), its kind of a no brainer then

it does hurt the enjoyability somewhat for some people but not so much that its completely a no go

[frozen epoch]

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think this new system is the devil, I am debating it more because I personally know how I enjoy this game and I know this change will me getting that less often. I will give it a shot at some point tho, don’t worry. At first I completely shut out the idea but I’ve come round now

[eager comet]

got it

basically in order to get a solution where we can make as many people happy as possible, i think its important that all people giving feedback give the system an honest try

and figure out exactly where they lie

[frozen epoch]

Yeah totally fair I’m not tryna have a go at anyone

[eager comet]

if i just read it and say i hate it, go on the feedback form without playing a match and say 0/10 its not really a legitimate point of data, same way if i said i loved it but didnt play a game

ye nw nw

[eager comet]

you arent being hostile or anything at all like that

[frozen epoch]

Daym wasn’t trying hard enough then

lol

[mossy shard]

it feels a little bad to not be able to not be able to veto to white stake ):

[eager comet]

😭

[smoky bobcat]

We are adding in something similar to veto that guarantees 3/7 (or 4/9 if we expand) options will be white stake for any queue with a stone player

[eager comet]

i think this is something that is looked at but not sure

yea

[frigid belfry]

Yeah and that kinda sucks bc we only have ~100 people active it's not really played

[smoky bobcat]

“That way the stone player either gets a white stake game or gets full choice over the other 4 if the high ranker bans all white stakes”

[eager comet]

yea its lwk making me sad

[eager comet]

oh crap wait

thats lwk facts

[pliant glade]

nice name

[eager comet]

its 1 2 2 1 now right?

[smoky bobcat]

Yes

[eager comet]

can we get one for black stake

[frigid belfry]

Wait why do you have the same name as blockattack

[eager comet]

i am block attack and he is me

[smoky bobcat]

Some people are just doing bits rn

[eager comet]

and we are NOT dunk

wait, i guess I am dunk

im equivalent to not not dunk

but he is not dunk

[frigid belfry]

Oh you have+1 not

[grizzled wadi]

im not dunk

they are dunk

[eager comet]

i am dunk

together we are donk

[grizzled wadi]

even amount of nots

[frigid belfry]

Then you need to say it you take the law of excluded middle

[grizzled wadi]

I have an odd amount of nots

[eager comet]

nots*

[frigid belfry]

He also has an odd amount of dunks lol

He only has 1 dunk

[eager comet]

true

[violet ledge]

Can I say it’s a bit odd that feedback reception on this thread is like: “I like the new system” gets a bunch of heart reacts from admins, “I dislike the new system” gets a bunch of arguments from admins

[last socket]

Idk, it's not that odd for the admins to be happy that people like a system they implemented, imo.

[eager comet]

2+2=4

also again the form is what is going to decide how this system changes

if a lot of people really hate it then we will probably walk it back entirely

[violet ledge]

That’s fair

I think some people might just be feeling a bit piled on for sharing their thoughts

Not even intentionally, I don’t think there’s some grand admin scheme to squash negative feedback lol

[eager comet]

i think its just that a lot of people left one time messages

and there arent many people in this thread that are sticking around for super long term discussions

ofc, the staff members are more invested and also want to see the feedback, and ALSO are in favor of the change, so of the people that are staying in the thread, maybe, it might be that since the staff members are invested and hovering on the thread, we tend to be talking more than the few people who are here for long term discussions on the other side of the debate

so, its a good thing you pointed out then is what im trying to say, i hope no one is feeling like they are being harassed or that their opinion doesnt matter at all

[old vigil]

I think the piling on happens mostly when people share their thoughts in a rude way

[eager comet]

and if someone is then id want them to make it known cause i dont think anyone is trying to do that to others either intentionally and might not realise it

[violet ledge]

Even if this is the case, that doesn’t feel like the correct response

[old vigil]

I agree, I even said it several times that both staff and non staff should take it down a notch

But also staff members as a whole are doing our best to bring the better experience to players and shape up the community as best as we can so when people are rude and shit on the work for no reason (or not an explained one) it is natural to react in less than perfect ways

[round bison]

i agree

as well

i brought it up

[round bison]

but this too :)

[frozen juniper]

I try to engage with people when they say they don't like it

[round bison]

same fr

[frozen juniper]

but I also just really like the system, so I like when people are happy with it

[shut prism]

having to play magic purple 💔

pain

[urban lark]

thats sounds fire ngl

[old vigil]

Icl better than

[shut prism]

debatable

maybe i gotten so used to white stake that i cant play other stakes anymore xD

[old vigil]

If only there was a change to rank trying to combat that

[shut prism]

thats the joke

[old vigil]

Yeah, I was build off your joke

My bad if it was bad

[shut prism]

xD

sry long day

[fallen sequoia]

sack 2 lives ante 1 -> triple hermit -> ??? -> win the game

it's that easy

[old vigil]

For those not in the know, ??? = ddos attack your opponent

[steady zealot]

I like the new system but I think the one thing I don’t like is I never play my favorite/best deck stake combos much anymore.

It’d be fun to be able to set gentleman’s deck/stakes that you’d be willing to agree to & have that info pop up when you get thrown in a match (or just matching gentleman’s you have with the op). I like chatting pre match but there’s only so much back and forth before it just gets tedious.

[foggy plover]

yeah i mean you are always allowed to hit em with the ghost white?

or white cock?

ive asked people a lot about white cock

[south beacon]

you called?

[tender bronze]

Your names too long I feel like you should shorten it

[cunning nova]

brother we are the lows

[crimson linden]

haha, this is a common thing for modern developers, if you can't make sure that players play on all maps the same way, just take away the freedom of choice))) why try to do something yourself so that people themselves want to play on different decks and stakes, just take away the choice, it's much easier

HMM, PEOPLE ONLY PLAY GHOST WHITE, WHAT CAN WE DO TO MAKE THEM PLAY OTHER DECKS?? OF COURSE WE WILL FORCE THEM!!!!

multiplayer has long since departed from the vanilla experience, then do something to make all decks play more fun and playable, for example, remove the orange deck and add a standard pack +2 or even 3 hang mans for all decks, something like that, so that there is not a large advantage in favor of only the ghost abandoned or orange decks in terms of desire to play for players

prohibitions and forcing have never been the key to a good gaming experience

even if we keep this system, I see it as removing all default decks like yellow, red, blue, leaving only nebula, abandoned orange, ghost, erratic, and only two stakes black and white.

Anything other than this only creates the illusion of choice and variety, cause in fact its practically the same things like white or green

[fallen sequoia]

I fundamentally disagre with changing mechanics of jokers/decks unless absolutely necessary. It will only confuse new/casual players without much benefit. Not to mention something like giving every deck a standard pack or 3(!) hang mans only serves to trivialize deck fixing which doesn't translate to more fun.

[fallen sequoia]

I don't get what you're trying to say here ngl, what does the system have to do with removing all default decks?

[crimson linden]

The multiplayer already has new jokers and redesigned old ones like chad, as well as new decks, I don't see any problem because it's ranked,

[fallen sequoia]

new decks are fine because they're easy to understand and players can easily avoid them if they want, chad falls under "absolutely necessary" changes, same with glass

[crimson linden]

I just don't understand when they say that people miss 70-80 percent of the game content with the old ban system, when the same 70-80 percent of the game is almost the same, such as intermediate stakes or decks like blue red and yellow, which are played almost the same way

Well as for me it's just stupid when you have a choice like a blue deck white stake a red deck green stake and for example a yellow deck orange stake and a gold stake anaglyph deck it literally feels like a choice without a choice.

the illusion of huge choice and variety

[fallen sequoia]

ok I get what you're saying and fair enough

[crimson linden]

and all this same things basically appears instead of really interesting gimmick, like an abandoned erratic or an orange

[fallen sequoia]

To be fair though expanding the number of options (which is already confirmed to happen I think?) will help decrease the amount of lame choices, rerolls already help too

[crimson linden]

I think you can easly combine red, blue, yellow and black maybe into one deck

smth like that

[fallen sequoia]

nah black is unique

[crimson linden]

well yes

maybe yellow

[fallen sequoia]

yellow also stands out from red and blue enough that it gets picked like 4x more than them (in the old system)

[crimson linden]

maybe instead you can add some cocktail deck combinations directly to the ban pick system

[fallen sequoia]

that could be nice actually

either that or just make cocktail ranked legal, it already sees a lot of play anyway

I'd much rather see cocktail than nebula or anaglyph lol

[crimson linden]

yea i think like some cocktails like magic + abandoned + red or smth could be much better than default blue red etc decks

[fallen sequoia]

By the way I wish we were able to reroll even after the bans have started

It sucks that if I do the first ban on autopilot my opponent doesn't even have time to ask for a reroll

[hollow trellis]

No im a lucky player trapped in a gold players body

[frigid belfry]

I think like 90% of problems can go away if casual queue was active

But I also think that this system shouldn't be implemented across all ranks

If so many stone+steel players complain that they cant play their fav deck and that's something they really want to do, then let stone+steel lobbies ban 2 decks each before random pairs

[foggy plover]

Like this is just baby mode.deck

But I see the point

[tardy whale]

grab bag mod already does this

[gray thunder]

mid

[wind pulsar]

ya so this ban system makes me want to cut off my own hands so i dont have to play the game. like there is a reason i dodge certain decks and stakes but no cant do that well anymore

[urban lark]

if you consistently arent getting any combos youre okay with you need to broaden your horizons

[frozen juniper]

this system is actually propaganda to make people play other modes more

leaked

[cosmic otter]

Also is this system still in casual and Smallworld? I feel like it shouldn't be in those mods

[urban lark]

other people have said this before but casual probably shouldn’t have any bans at all

smallworld its great though

fits the mode well

i know some people love cocktail but i find it really stale

[cosmic otter]

Every queue I've looked at had played cocktail white

[marble nest]

it sadly works in small world (Rip orange deck)

Like 60% of games would go zodiac orange magic

[cyan tinsel]

literally this

[foggy axle]

I disagree (even though I dont play anymore)

[spiral sundial]

valid point but i want to punch my monitor not rlly when i see something 10x better than im locked into with perm cards

[foggy axle]

I will forever stake that sw introduces enough natural variance that high stakes more often punishes playing well

[spiral sundial]

like i just beat someone bc they werent playing for the fact that a baron would appear in the shop and locked into retriggers

[grizzled wadi]

Soultion: ask for white cock

[spiral sundial]

do i feel like the better player? no, just didnt buy a perm joker

[spiral sundial]

REAL

[grizzled wadi]

Ive won 50 small ganes in a row and like 95% were on white

[spiral sundial]

i like the new system no problems with it but i cry in high stake

yeah it is pretty easy to get a white stake deck if u REALLY wanna play one

but i dont mind a higher stake random decks at all

[grizzled wadi]

I'm fine with all stakes but gold

But like I prefer a deck I love over white stake

[spiral sundial]

exactly

rentals can reward you for being broke

[grizzled wadi]

I dont like pershiables mainly

And jugment yeah

[spiral sundial]

i thought they changed it so jugment doesnt give cards that were supposed to be perishable

I could be wrong tho

[grizzled wadi]

It broke its just bad now

Like normal shop qur remove the stickers

[spiral sundial]

ah that big time sucks

[cunning nova]

me too bro

[steady zealot]

So would you have took jazz to black stake in the tourney if they just got through to you?

[eager comet]

sw?

oh small world im an idiot

[fallen sequoia]

the new ban system might be goated

[void schooner]

Interesting note is I've played less variety of decks since the new ban system lol, we just gentlemans to ghost/white most games

[mellow fable]

"Ive not been using the system and its not been working"

[fallen sequoia]

I mean the system seems to be working as intended in this case

[dull pine]

can we have a button that just skips the banning picking? i.e if both players press it it just picks a deck and stake ?

other then that I LOVE the new system so much more fun not having to play bloody ghost white every game

[chilly viper]

/random deck /random stake works

[dull pine]

yeah this is a just a qol thing to speed it up

otherwise its like 5 extra clicks

[cyan tinsel]

theres a random bans button as well

if both players are clicking it it takes like 5 seconds

[dull pine]

yeah thats what i use but sometimes the other person takes too long

im just impatient i suppose

[chilly viper]

wait shouldn't the veto be stone only?

or is it for eevryone

[cyan tinsel]

i believe the button just doesnt work if youre not stone

[frozen juniper]

This'll be fixed

[void schooner]

no? if the systems intent is to introduce more variety, it just isn't working in this case as in those matches we'd rather just go the 1 deck than any of the ones show. Like i have an array of decks/stakes im comfortable playing, those are hard to line up with the new system and are easily banned so I just don't use it as much and in turn am only playing, like, 1 deck/stake.

In the old system we could still gentelmans if we wanted, but I hardly ever did as I enjoy playing multiple decks. I'd def use it a lot more if it was just a selection of random decks and then the stake pick is seperate, but them being combined means there's rarely one I'd rather play than just 🤷

Was just sayin it cuz its interesting that this is the outcome in my case given that the intent is to have more variety. Gentlemans to w/e deck is still part of the system.

[foggy plover]

okay so not to be that guy but to be that guy

most of ur games are white ghost

on the new system if you dont agree itd say ? ?

you just appreciated the old system because you could force ghost white 90% of the time

[old vigil]

So the intent of the system is indeed to have more variety, you are comfortable with an array of decks and the idea is to get you to expand it. It is fair to default into agreements with your opponent when you don't like the decks but that means you are pretty much not using the system right?

[void schooner]

lol ik, and thats fair
But like w/ old id be fine w/ any of the 3 I present the opponent with being picked, which this doesnt show, they just choose ghost. And most the time they present ghost + 1-2 that I don't rly like, which is why i pick ghost. I'm excited when they pick eratic/painted in those games

[void schooner]

but being able to gentelmans is still part of the system, like its a result of this system instead of the old that we're just agreeing on deck/stake is what im pointin out

[foggy plover]

i feel that part of the system = a button you can press to go to ghost white

you are explicity not using the system because you dont like the choices

[old vigil]

I feel like agreeing with your opponent is going around the system and not part of the system

[void schooner]

but like the agreements is part of the game, and the only reason we're doin it is cuz of the new system
Like in old if they ban ghost then fair enough i wouldn't play it, this one it's just quite rare to get a deck+stake combo you'd be comfortable on. And that isn't just ghost lol, most of my avoidance comes from stake tbch

which is a skill issue to be fair, but like is still what the reason is

idk, ig I'd be a lot more for it if it was just the decks that were randomized than the stake, and then the stake was the old veto system. It feels like rn I need to spend all my bans on the stakes and then I have no power in choosing the deck itself, because I know I'm not as good on high stake so need to force that rather than deck. And then I just have less fun cuz im playing a deck that's boring or I don't enjoy

[old vigil]

Well that is the whole idea of the system right? The person comfortable with the most amount of deck stake pairs has the most freedom, if you need to avoid a stake then you are giving your opponent a choice in deck

I think you'll start having more fun if you give in and try learning new stakes even if the internet points go down for a while

[void schooner]

my internet points have gone down as is xD
Idk maybe, I'll give it more of a go. I just find it meh that now if im banning to win I'm banning against my own fun a lot, and if im banning to have fun i have to go against winning lol. But in the old system them being seperate meant I could do both, cuz deck for me never feels like im banning something cuz i think im bad at it, its just some are more fun, stakes are where bans feel like they rly matter

[old vigil]

Idk I tend to ban decks more than stakes

[void schooner]

O hadn't seen it's now 9 lol, that'll probs help yee

[old vigil]

Oh yeah, that is also a big help

There's more chances you find something fun

[void schooner]

Yee, will see how it goes o7
But yeah ig I just feel more comfortable on a wider amount of decks, so just wanna play more interesting ones. High stakes just feel so brutal xD id never beaten a gold stake before playing multiplayer lol

[old vigil]

Just try then out a few times, most of your opponents are on the same boat as you anyways

[void schooner]

Yeeeee

💀
i triiieeeed

[old vigil]

😭

[chilly viper]

😭

[foggy axle]

is there no button to just refuse rerolling

[smoky bobcat]

All you need to do is say “no” when opponent asks to reroll

[quaint gale]

I would love the button just to pick random random, not having to ask or type /random deck

[violet ledge]

Me when I’m in a looking up someone’s account and discounting their honest and genuine feedback competition and my opponent is @foggy plover 🥵🥵

[spiral sundial]

i mean its kinda odd that everyone that is giving feedback negatively mostly plays ghost white because of the consistency because they know it best

[stark jackal]

I like it when it gives me purple can we rig it? That would be cool but just for certain ppl like give bean ghost white.

[frozen juniper]

Reroll is a vote

Just don't vote

[frozen juniper]

This is something I've wanted to address for ages

Will note to do something about it later

[gleaming remnant]

hi hello i played few games and idea is working

games became more interesting

[hidden aspen]

So I'd never played balatro multiplayer until recently so have not experienced the old ban system. I've played since launch and gold staked all decks so apart from a couple of decks I don't like, I'm comfortable on playing on most decks/stakes, especially as you don't have to play around different boss blinds. I think the ban system is quite fun and balanced as I can ban a couple of decks I'm not really in the mood for and still know I'm going to be playing something I can adapt to

Single player is obviously very different to multiplayer which I'm still learning, but in terms of having variety and playing different decks/stakes I have found the ban system fun and easy to use

[unborn talon]

just putting my thoughts here: hate it, not using it, lemme pick my decks ples

[pearl pasture]

i wonder if there's any data on games after the new ban system, i think i am getting to play more higher stakes, is that true on average? if so then the system seems to have been a huge success

[fallen sequoia]

I assume yes because before any low stakes player would either play white or force black but you can't really do either now without sacrificing deck choice

[real lotus]

I've played a few games with the new bans and I'm not sold yet, still much prefer the old one

[pearl pasture]

what do you not like about it?

[ripe bane]

the Older ban system Is Better in ideda but the new one Adds more variety instead of the same old 6 decks and either black/gold or white stake. While the new ban system makes it so You have to play out of your comfort zone With diffrent decks and stakes adding variety. Overall its a step foward but maybe there should be a button to make it so if both press it would revert to the old system and then there would be data which people prefer more, i would sa y the old one is more controlled compared to the new one

[cyan tinsel]

i think a button to revert would be okay but maybe confusing for newcomers and stuff

and also people should just learn the game if you ask me

[tropic gorge]

We need more green stake love

[grizzled wadi]

Green deck black stake was something I never thought I was going to play but its a really fun combo, best tempo combo

[old vigil]

What I'm playing right now

[next canyon]

i love this new bans pick

[frozen juniper]

I think this is the only thing that is pretty solidly not going to happen

It'll be one or the other

Both cause supporting both adds a lot of extra work in the code and new player confusion is a thing

[cyan tinsel]

yeah i dont think it should

[cunning nova]

true bro

[wild frigate]

if two people press reroll at the same time, the other person is not allowed to reroll

[queen path]

I missed the time i can play ghost white

[real lotus]

I just think being limited to a maximum of 9 decks (one time I had one with three violet decks with different stakes), and not being able to pick stakes is a bit annoying. It forces everyone to be competent with every deck on every stake and idk if it’s just me but I don’t have the time to play that much so it’s a littl disheartening when you get rolled a list of unfavourable decks and stakes

I like the reroll idea but I think it’s just an extra unnecessary step for bans

[old vigil]

There is one reroll total and it happens when both players press the reroll button

[wild frigate]

yeah I know, we both pressed at the same time. I couldn't vote anymore and my vote didn't count

and it didn't reroll

[old vigil]

Huh

Thanks for the feedback! The devs will have to look into it

[gentle steeple]

im not a fan as a somewhat casual player

[fallen sequoia]

Can the max number of nebula decks be reduced to 0?

[grizzled wadi]

Next weekly tournament, tripple nebula deck where u have -1 consumable slot instead of 1, but u start with observatory instead

[mellow fable]

Thank you for reminding me I had this power

[fallen sequoia]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/563351597317488661/1274466083813982318/catexplodion.gif

[smoky bobcat]

Wait I have this power too? Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[mellow fable]

No way do you actually

[smoky bobcat]

I can make @grizzled wadi ‘s worst nightmare come true

[mellow fable]

Can someone ensure me helpers DONT have this power