MASTER JOKER/CARDS THREAD FOR 1.1

[humble void]

I think penny pincher is good though

[hexed zenith]

I've deeply thought about it

[vocal pivot]

what do you think of my suggestions btw?

yeah penny pincher is nice

[humble void]

Twins is basically one of the trap cards we are putting in 1.0

[vocal pivot]

ah

[humble void]

Which is good

Means it's a good idea

[vocal pivot]

indeed

[humble void]

Mastermind is weird because at a high level people will be playing the same hand type

So it's like they are just trading xmult

And it just promotes you using less hands

Which is an anti synergy with a lot of stuff

So idk

[vocal pivot]

fair

[humble void]

I think taxes is a good early game joker

I don't see a problem with it

I think people will over commit to it at lower levels

Like stencil

[hexed zenith]

i have so many suggestions for this mod but I'm afraid that most of them will not stick right

[humble void]

You should read Monty's essay about designing multiplayer jokers if you haven't

It's pinned in this thread

I am planning to add around 20 new jokers by the end of Feb

And I have almost no ideas for those yet

So more ideas is good

[hexed zenith]

any chance of my ideas will be implemented?

[humble void]

Yeah there is a good chance

I will take all the ideas I like to a channel with a few people that know the game really well

And if it passes their inspection it'll be put in the game

[hexed zenith]

that's a solid way of verification honestly

[humble void]

I'll definitely bring up penny pincher and taxes

[hexed zenith]

how about the consumables?

[humble void]

Where?

[hexed zenith]

like the ideas for the consumables?

[humble void]

Oh you mean in general

Yeah I'll be adding consumables too

[hexed zenith]

is it in the form of Trap cards or using the existing formats?

[humble void]

I'm looking for a set of multiplayer consumables for a multiplayer booster pack: https://discord.com/channels/1226193436521267223/1337593467798552637

[hexed zenith]

Ah, i see

[humble void]

You can suggest trap cards as well but they might not be added with the rest of the trap cards

[hexed zenith]

gotcha

[humble void]

There is a multiplayer planet in the experimental version and I am planning on adding a multiplayer tarot card too

So consumables are very welcome

[hexed zenith]

understandable

i might suggest some

[humble void]

Something to think about is we are always trying to make cards that promote less powerful strategies

Shake up the game

So if you can make an interesting card that buffs a "bad" strategy and is focused on multiplayer then it has a very good chance of being added

Like this card

[hexed zenith]

AHHHHH, okay i see now

[humble void]

That's related to promoting snowballing, generally we don't want a card to benefit the person winning more than the person losing, because if we have a bunch of cards like that then the game is already decided in ante 1

[hexed zenith]

i see i see

I'll come up with a better idea tomorrow now that i know what you guys are trying to do

i genuinely really liked this mod

[humble void]

Thanks :)

[hexed zenith]

keep doing your shit, you nailed it 🔥

[grave vessel]

fr

[spiral smelt]

how bout a card that turns one of your opponent's jokers into eternal in return for making one of yours perishable

[uneven adder]

Boss Joker Rare joker
Apply the effect of [1] random boss blind to your opponent during PvP rounds. Increases by 1 for each life you've lost this game.

[knotty marlin]

I feel like the scaling could potentially lead to instakills

like Needle + Water

one hand, no discards

the vast majority of the time, that leads to an instadeath

[uneven adder]

fair point

it could increase to 2 random boss blind effects on your last life instead maybe

idk im not a game balance scientist

[graceful sierra]

#1326665157606375465 message
This might be a helpful guide, for what our design goals are :)

[graceful sierra]

I very much like the idea of inflicting random boss blinds on your opponent, but I think as dx said, it shouldn't be able to apply more than 1 (it leads to either instakills, or would require code to pervent certain boss combinations)
How about instead, it could be something like "Nemesis must also fight a boss blind during PvP rounds. When at 1 life, this applies to all blinds instead"

[uneven adder]

that's a cleaner way to write the first effect for sure, and a more interesting/balanced effect at 1 life

[graceful sierra]

:)

[uneven adder]

thanks for the feedback

[knotty marlin]

np

[vocal pivot]

Jack-in-a-Box
When a Jack is scored, 1 in 6 chance to create a random Trap consumable.

[tribal raft]

maybe we can add pvp modifiers like “When Boss Blind is active, all of your unused hands and discards this ante go to your nemesis”

should help with balancing the game considering more broken builds will consume fewer hands

and if someone intentionally wastes hands they also lose money/interest

[glacial terrace]

generally the only "boss blind" is the pvp blind and in that you usually use all your hands and discards to maximise your score

But in showdown mode i see it possibly being useful

But i still dunno

cool idea though!

[vocal pivot]

yeah could be cool for something
though I think it needs some adjustment probably, it seems like it may punish players for buying paint brush and palette / wasteful and recyclomancy

[tribal raft]

i meant like from small and big blind

[vocal pivot]

Bomb Squad
You can sell set traps.

granted i don't know the specific mechanics of traps and how they work

[humble void]

This probably works better as a consumable, instead of just nullifying an entire type of cards for the game it could just be you trying to find a specific "defuse" consumable when you are trapped

[vocal pivot]

fair

"Destroy a set trap. Gain $5."

tarot card, or something

[humble void]

Traps are pretty straight forward, your opponent opens a trap booster pack, you get trapped, you don't know what it is (but maybe you have an idea if you opened the same booster pack) and if you activate a certain condition then it does something bad to you or good for your opponent

Most of the time it's just good for your opponent

[vocal pivot]

👍

[humble void]

Conditions can be anything from playing a specific hand type to rerolling the shop

[vocal pivot]

i assume they work like eternal cards (or the phantom cards)

[humble void]

Yeah

[vocal pivot]

what do you think of this idea btw?
I like the theming a lot but it does reward face card builds

[humble void]

All the trap cards are designed, we just aren't releasing the designs until they are closer to implementation

[humble void]

Yeah that's interesting

I don't remember where but there was ideas for jokers that create traps and the only thing we need to do to them is make the traps they create expire faster

So a trap would typically expire in 1 ante after being set but if you activate this joker then it would automatically apply a trap to the opponent with a 1 round expiry

[vocal pivot]

oh gotcha

that's cool

[humble void]

And would there probably have to be a max amount of traps placed per round by the joker

Like it can only proc once or twice per round

Because things could go crazy with that card a full deck of jacks and a few oops all 6s

[vocal pivot]

you could make it something like, on last hand or first hand

[humble void]

Yeah true

[vocal pivot]

well i imagine they wouldn't get set instantly, they would go to your consumables first

so you can only get 2 max per hand in most cases

maybe it could be something like
"If the first hand of this round only scores Jacks, create a random trap card."

[humble void]

2 traps per hand is still crazy xD

[vocal pivot]

yee

[humble void]

Played perfectly with base hands your opponent has 8 traps on them for the next round xD

[vocal pivot]

high card/pair is a concern though

[humble void]

Could also be like 6th sense

[vocal pivot]

yeah

[humble void]

If the first hand played is a single Jack, destroy it and gain a trap card

Maybe 2 if it is balanced

[vocal pivot]

would also discourage it from working so much in a face card build

doesn't synergize

so well

[humble void]

Exactly

[vocal pivot]

i like that

[humble void]

I'll put it in my notes

[vocal pivot]

👍

[tawdry ivy]

not sure where to put this, made this copycat art based on the yugioh card

[glacial terrace]

oh this looks so beautiful

if anyone can come up with a joker for this would be epic

[tawdry ivy]

copycat (joker):
copy the effect of enemy's left most joker, like brainstorm
It already does exist yes

[glacial terrace]

oh cool

that is amazing

[humble void]

I just added that joker to our internal list of jokers probably being added to 1.1 so this is perfect

[tawdry ivy]

hell yeah

[humble void]

Should I credit you as Zea? (assuming you are good with us using it in the mod)

[tawdry ivy]

yeah sure

credit me as zeathemays

thats what i go by

does this joker have art yet?

Surprisingly bad joker:
Common
10x mult during non-pvp blinds

[humble void]

The only jokers with art are these ones #🎯main-hub message

You should check out the art competition too if you are interested in doing Balatro art #📣announcements message

And I would be happy to give you a list of jokers we are most likely adding to the mod if you want

[tawdry ivy]

yeah, that would be nice

[humble void]

DMed you

[vocal pivot]

hey, if you ever need another artist, I'd be down to help

[humble void]

After the art comp I'll be putting a team of artists together, but I can't choose people from it before it ends

[vocal pivot]

Marked Card
Your nemesis' traps are flipped face up.

idk how to word this but basically you can peek at the traps is the idea

a bit similar to speedrun, but

High Five
1x mult, +0.5x mult for each remaining hand your nemesis has left

alternatively, since the name fits

High Five
If a 5 scores as a High Card, add another copy of that card to your deck.

(probably too similar to dna though)

[humble void]

Marked Card could work, might be better as a consumeable but Ill take a note of it

Both the other ones are high five, but the first one is already a joker that is planned

The second one just buffs glass card builds (hack, hanging chad), which is probably the strongest build atm

So maybe not

[tribal raft]

high five can be related both to 5s and hands

(something cool) if all scoring cards in hand are 5s

hack + fibo both buff 5s tho

[tawdry ivy]

i think it's way too similar to dna and highly specific

wouldn't it be more logical to buff pairs of 5's or something

[humble void]

Probably three 7s

7 is one of the worst ranks already and 777 fits the gambling theme

Makes the card less powerful but it could be strong if built around

[tawdry ivy]

true

i was also thinking 4 leaf clover where 4s buff luck if played, don't know how broken that'd be and overlaps with oops all 6's

technically playing 4s and glass would be terrible with that joker tho

[humble void]

Increasing odds by 1 for every scored 4 could be interesting

Like for an isolated hand

[humble void]

Thats great

Murder glass into the ground

[tawdry ivy]

it makes glass joker more reliable

[humble void]

It could make a very strong bloodstone build

What if instead it is "When scoring 4s, double odds"

Or however oops all 6s is worded

I guess that wouldnt be very powerful at all

Would have to be common

[tawdry ivy]

yeah, you have to build around it pretty heavily

I'll make the art for it when i get back from college

I think the 777 joker could be a 1-7 to trigger one of 7 different effects, tho building around 7's falls under the same niche

or rather trigger one of the 7 effects at random when played

[humble void]

Oh god

[tawdry ivy]

that would be a REALLY long joker description tho, so idk

[humble void]

What kind of effects are you thinking

Nah we can just not tell them what the effects are

It would be really short

[tawdry ivy]

true

[humble void]

"1 in 7 chance to trigger 1 of 7 effects, (some condition for activating)"

When blind is selected?

[tawdry ivy]

it could be a really funny card actually

like maybe a single out of the seven effects is negative and deducts $7

[humble void]

True that could be funny

[tawdry ivy]

and the others are like:

• double money
• generate x consumable (maybe 1 for each type)
• generate playing card

or something like it adding 25% of chips required to beat the selected blind

[humble void]

Double money (max $15), Create a random tarot card, Create a planet for your most played poker hand, Create a trap card, Create 3 random playing cards, Apply Polychrome to a random joker, Lose $7

[tawdry ivy]

yeah that's a good list

altho i would do a random edition instead of polychrome

[humble void]

Could probably be max $40 actually

[tawdry ivy]

weighted of course

[humble void]

Well my thinking is that this that each effect is a 2% chance of happening

[tawdry ivy]

true

[humble void]

Which is lower than the chance to get polychrome from a wheel xD

I guess it does activate a bunch though

[tawdry ivy]

yeah, 1 each blind + copy jokers if you have one

i think it's funny tho, concept wise it would probably fall in the uncommon, maybe teetering on rare

[humble void]

Effects: Double money (max $20), Create a random tarot or trap card, Create a planet for your most played poker hand, X7 Mult this blind only, Create 3 random playing cards, Apply a random edition to a random joker, Lose $7

We will bring it to the advisors and see what they think

[tawdry ivy]

sounds good

[tribal raft]

x7 mult 💀

upgrade [hand] by 7 levels

maybe a random hand for balance

[humble void]

This is like a 0.1% chance of upgrading the hand you want by 7 levels xD

[thick portal]

Alien Heart
Joker
While held, +1 life. Strips enhancements from played cards.
(would probably be banned in Attrition? I think this might be one of the few ways you could realistically regenerate lives though)

real ones know the reference

[uneven adder]

seems reasonable, though i'm not sure it would be able to do more than bide your time in most cases (unless it's negative or something, since it's essentially a permanent -1 joker slot if i'm understanding it correctly)

you'd only want to use it if you're losing & low on lives, and then it only buys time at the expense of permanently reducing your joker count (you can't sell it if you're on your last life because you would lose the extra life it gives, and if you sell it before your last life, you gained nothing from the joker)

[uneven adder]

im not a real one and dont know the reference so this may not be on theme
but maybe "While held, +1 life, [1x] mult. Gains 2x mult for each life your opponent has. Strips enhancements from played cards."
somewhat decent comeback joker and if your opponent also picks it up it helps the losing player more

though maybe the xmult and extra life are worth enough to pick it up even when winning

considering that u probably have higher base mult/better mult generation/already strong xmult if you're winning

idk not a game balance doctor

[vocal pivot]

okay I know hanging bad exists already, but I thought of another idea to nerf chad
"The order cards are played in during Nemesis Blinds are randomized for both players"

[thick portal]

that's effectively the point

it's very much a last stand sort of joker

the drawback is heavy for the value you get

[vocal pivot]

Brick
Create a random eternal joker for both players. (Can only be used if you have room)

would be a consumable

if your opponent has no room it doesn't create one for them

[uneven adder]

ok, there's definitely something to the idea but to me it just seems like it would drag out your loss

[thick portal]

not necessarily; especially in shorter game modes like Battle Royale, it could be a clutch way to hold out just long enough to turn it around

[uneven adder]

with one life to begin with it can be valuable fs

[thick portal]

I feel like you're very much undermining the sheer value of getting an extra life

the lost joker slot isn't even the biggest drawback of it

the Vampire-like feeding is far worse, as it just prevents you from using enhancements at all

a lot of builds don't strictly need all five slots to function well, and the point is to give you the time to find something like that

extra time means extra econ, extra rerolls, both of which then help improve your build

either way I think the idea's neat. even if it's a tradeoff that's arguably worse, for something as game warping as an extra life, I don't mind it being weak

[gilded matrix]

Indebted Joker- +3 mult per dollar less you have then your opponent (something along these lines has probably been said before but im too lazy to search for it)

[faint dawn]

Switcheroo (Spectral)
Swap a random joker with your nemesis' joker in the same slot. (If it chooses a joker that has no corresponding slot [you have more jokers via negatives, antimatter, black deck, etc,] use the highest slot instead.)

meant to be a gamble for a comeback, with the opportunity to screw you if used unwisely

I would assume art could either be similar to the shop reroll vouchers, or potentially something reminicent of the card creature swap from yugioh

[sharp lintel]

A red card variant of blackboard that gives you $1 per life you've lost this run

as in "if all cards held in hand are hearts or diamonds"

[hardy badge]

JOKER IDEA

Land Deal
Common
$5

If both players have sold this joker, add +1 hand size for both players during the next nemesis boss blind (resets at the end of each ante)

It's kind of like cooperating with your enemy. But maybe it helps one player more than it helps the other? Maybe you think you can get more use out of the extra hand size than your opponent? It requires that you both bet that the enemy will buy and sell it as well, too. If someone buys it and only one person sells it, the person that bought it will be out $5 D:
Could be tuned a little bit, but this kind of co-opt joker could be cool

Also, being able to see the phantom land deal in your joker slots would remove all the guess work from determining if your enemy wants to "make the deal" or not

[hardy badge]

I think its a good idea, if the player wants to pay for an extra life by stripping all their enhancements away, let them! It seems balanced because even tho the player with more lives needs to survive one more ante, the player who's on their last life will need a miracle (or skill(?)) to make a comeback great enough to make it worthwhile

[thick portal]

^^^

pretty much the point of the design

it's a massive commitment for a potentially massive gain

[tribal raft]

sell this joker to gain 1 life once 50 scoring heart cards are played

[humble python]

joker idea Gives 100 chips. Also places the joker in your opponents joker pile until you sell this joker

[deep epoch]

a like somewhat interesting idea for a joker is some kinda like prisoners dilemma esque thing

like for example 3x mult but it gets debuffed in the pvp blind if both people have it

but like now that i think about that

it’d cancel out anyway if both people have it

maybe could be interesting if the buff was like hand size or economy or something that didnt affect both people equally

like maybe +2 hand size in the pvp blind if ur the only one with it

[hardy badge]

Hey that's pretty much exactly what I suggested :) that's another good way to go about it

[hardy badge]

here

[thick portal]

I think we could honestly have that as its own gamemode mechanic

like, a Prisoner's Dilemma style experience would be really interesting gameplay wise

[deep epoch]

an interesting idea for a trap would be like maybe

the next joker your opponent buys becomes perishable

idk how traps would work but if its like a set thing and then your opponent sees that they have a trap it could maybe create interesting play

like trying to hit an important joker or using a different trap once they’ve seen the shop with it to bluff

might be too annoying to play against tho? maybe like rental would be better

i just like the idea of having something like that where ur opponent could like buy something weak to bait it

[jolly vapor]

vending machine is amazing omg

[graceful sierra]

Vending Machine sounds not only bad balance-wise (it's just not very strong, because your opponent can avoid skipping to give you anything), and a terrible incentive (because it INCENTIVIZES your opponent to not skip)

[vocal pivot]

Plasma Joker
All scores are balanced during PvP blinds (applies to both players)

[jolly vapor]

this is so funny, but terrible balance

[jolly vapor]

fair

I just like the idea a lot

[knotty marlin]

dumb idea:
Reverse Vending Machine

[lime lichen]

I am currently working on a "Rebirth" Spectral card which destroys 2 random jokers in exchange for 1 life gain, but I have no idea if that is over or underpowered. I currently have it so that you can only get it once you have 2 lives or less, so it's a lucky, last resort kind of deal. Anyone got any suggestions on how to balance it? And how do I best test these mods? I have some basic code written into a fork of this mod, but I can't exactly start a multiplayer match with myself - can i?

[humble void]

The balancing is another issue, and I am not sure gaining lives will ever be properly balanced, but you can test the mod yourself by launching the game from the exe, you can launch as many instances of the game as you want from the exe

[lime lichen]

Oh, right. That actually makes a lot of sense. I just expected there to be issues with 2 exe's trying to access the same files, but they probably just load in once during startup. :D

[humble void]

Also the experimental branch (the 1.0 version) is being written better to support addons and modded content, and since it is a full rewrite a lot of stuff will get left behind on this (0.1.8) version. If you are interested in adding to the multiplayer mod then I suggest looking into that, and also feel free to DM me if you have any questions

[lime lichen]

Great, I will! Thanks for the quick response. I just found this mod a week or so ago, and I am loving it so far :D

[jolly vapor]

Plant Joker: During the Boss Blind, both players' face cards are debuffed (looks like the plant in the boot from wall-e)
Idk how serious of a suggestion this is, but it was a funny idea

[hardy badge]

love it, gimme it, need it

would change the meta fs lol

[jolly vapor]

it totally would lmao

[lime lichen]

Would probably be phantom and present for both players, right? Sounds fun :D

[indigo quarry]

Handkerchief with Chlorofoam
All of opponent's non-standard (i.e. has at least one of enhancements/editions/seals) are drawn face down

might be busted but at least the glass meta can get unstable

[jolly vapor]

I really don't like the theming of the card, maybe something different?

idea is alright, I think maybe just saying glass are facedown

it's a lot worse then though

idk it just makes it more skillful not less powerful

[shrewd notch]

RareSeven UP
Playing a hand full of sevens adds random seals to scoring cards.

RareNine Inch Nail
In PVP rounds, If you play a single nine, destroy it and add a stone to your opponent's next hand. (unsure if a stone would be good enough but i like the idea of messing with enemy's plan)

Rare Carnival
During pvp rounds all cards played get randomized enhancements for both players.

Common Earth
During pvp rounds your first played card gets a random enhancement and edition.

Common Air
During pvp rounds each player exchange the cards played in their last hand. (As in your last hand goes into opponent's deck after the fight)

Common Water
During pvp rounds each player's gains are combined and granted to both. (meant to include gold and consumables).

Common Fire
During pvp rounds, destroy each player's first scoring card.

[cedar parcel]

Envious Joker
1X for each joker that your opponent has more than you

common Scammer Joker
When you buy this joker, the opponent next rarity joker or more is destroyed and your scammer joker is replaced with a perishable copy of the opponent joker, when it's debuffed, selfdestruct and the joker returns to your opponent hand (requires space)

John joker
When you loose a pvp rounds, the life loss is not counted, but you still get the money self destruct

Saboteur joker
In the last hand of your opponent, his mult is halfed

Revenge joker
If you loose the last pvp 3X mult and 1.5X chips, if you win the last pvp game 1.5X mult 1X chips

Cooking
If you take more time than your opponent to do your actions +20 mult 3X mult

LegendaryTrolled
The next arcana pack that someone pick, have "the soul" in it

/Force boss blind
at the pvp round, force a random boss blind effect to you opponent and half of the effect in you (an entire suit debuff for you is 1/2 chance to debuff a [suit] when drawn)

[indigo quarry]

Swap Game Card
The first hand each player plays score for their opponents in PvP blind
(card itself looks like nintendo switch game card sized up to match other joker cards)

though I guess making this into a trap card instead would be better

also I kinda wanted it to be the last hand but that probs won't work well with the way the game works rn (ending round early if loss is clear & etc)

[jolly vapor]

I really like revenge joker!

[cedar parcel]

Thanks :)

[faint dawn]

Joker Figurine
Gains $1 of sell value at the end of each round your nemesis plays.

it could probably do $2 or $3, but I didn't remember that egg was $3 and this should scale at the same speed

maybe give the enemy a phantom figurine to kind of psyche them out and give them something to worry about

[vocal pivot]

the idea is cool, but I think this would encourage waiting and create stalemates

it does also encourage skipping which is nice though

[thick portal]

I'll be honest, it's just Egg but more annoying

[deep epoch]

idk if all traps are like fully set in stone rn but an interesting one could fully disable retriggers for a hand in the pvp blind

u could call it Dawn or smth

opposite of dusk being ur last hand gets retriggered

[deep epoch]

and it also has the potiental to lead to annoying standoffs like

needing a dollar to buy something so you wait until they finish a round

[hasty crown]

Mollycoddle [common]:
1 out of 4 chance to decrease the rank of all cards played in hand (kk997 --> qq886).

Mollytov [common]:
1 and 4 chance to make all cards played in hand wild.

---

i think these jokers would help speed up deck construction which may help people get their builds off the ground sooner and and longer in games of attrition.

[humble void]

Trying to get a joker named after yourself? XD

[hasty crown]

i mean, the names kinda work but sureee

uwu~~

[humble void]

These are decent but they don't have a multiplayer aspect

[hasty crown]

sounds delulu whe u put it that way

they help speed up the construction process which is difficult to navigate as effectively as solo play.

maybe im wrong tho.

[humble void]

Yeah that's fair

I like the idea, but I want to put a twist in it

[hasty crown]

i find sometimes i just cant get a deck constructed where i want to be before i did

[humble void]

I'll think on it

[hasty crown]

i totally like twists. im open to ideas and stuff.

i wont think any less of u if u dont run with it.

[humble void]

Something like "1 in 4 chance to make all played cards your Nemesis's most common enhancement."

But not quite that I don't think

I do like using wilds because they need more representation

[hasty crown]

mmhm

i care less about purely fucking up my opponent and moreso about making my deck more what im looking for in a morr appropriate amount of time giving thee shorter nature (development wise) of attrition.

so its not multiplayer specific in a 2 player sense. its multiplayer specific in more of a game mode sense, i guess. there's only so many shops and times where strengthing is better than glassing for example. so then my deck is all wonky constantly.

[humble void]

What about "In PvP blinds, all unscored cards become wild"

It requires you to be fairly careful in exchange for the chance of it happening

Could be annoying though I guess

[hasty crown]

thats quite interesting. may need somd thinking bit interesting nonetheless.

[hasty crown]

i think with the changes u made, thd chance aspect is less important. its restricted to pvp which is kind of its own restriction

so u like Mollytov more than Mollycoddle probs? i get that if so.

[humble void]

Yeah that's what I mean, instead of the chance restriction it's the PvP restriction

Yeah I do

[hasty crown]

i like it tbh

good idea uwu

[humble void]

I'll think about it some more but I like it

[hasty crown]

meoww

[humble void]

You could potentially convert like 20 cards to wild if you do it right

In 1 blind

[hasty crown]

could be nice to have a rough gem and bloodstone combo~~

[humble void]

Yeah it would make ancient joker just busted

[hasty crown]

all four suits shining ooo

[hasty crown]

oh god fairr

[humble void]

Maybe just the first hand

I think I've underestimated wild cards

[hasty crown]

its fair.

thats why i had everything planned out the way before. chance is gives u high risk but high reward.

[humble void]

I'll put it in my spreadsheet to be brought forth to the council

[hasty crown]

love.

what if it had a 1 in 3 chance of working the small and big blinds but didnt affect cards on pvp? so u can build as u go but limits ur ability to deliberately exploit so much maybe?

1 and 4 probs. idk.

[humble void]

Yeah I was also thinking about that direction

I think a 1 in 3 is good

[hasty crown]

lucky penny [rare]

1 and 8 chance to gain $40 if you have $20 less than your opponent.

[humble void]

When does it roll the chance?

[hasty crown]

at the end of each round maybe?

of that seems absurd, we could make it more rare chance. i just people are behind to have a chance to get money. i kno comeback cash is a thing. maybe im overthinking this. its late when writing this and i cant sleep.

[humble void]

I like this concept a lot, idk if I like the activation condition but I like that you have to work with your enemy, it's like the prisoners dilemma

[hasty crown]

i just like the concept of a slower paced opponent sorta finding lucky pennies the other opponent wont find. making the seed less samey perhaps.

[humble void]

Yeah comeback jokers like this is stuff we want

[hasty crown]

sick sick.

[humble void]

Could activate on the cashout

[hasty crown]

yea thats what i mean

i feel like it would feel less cheap than defensive joker. is chance makes it feel earned in a way.

[humble void]

I think 1 in 6 makes sense, every other ante on average

[hasty crown]

i like

one thing i struggle with is i like to buy a lot at first and i dont always saving. i think more econ jokers would help, but i kno im part of the problem ofc.

i guess credit card helps with this play style tho tbh

think theres just in general a lot of existing jokers to tweak and make more multiplayer compatable. some u cant really realize to their potential given the meta.

i feel silly saying this, but i would be happy to help with input on jokers and mechanics and stuff from like theory aspects. im not a programer but i kno whars fun and fair generally.

anyway, thx for listening. i probs go bed now and i think of more stuff

are there any sort of ideas ur look for more than others btw??

[humble void]

I'll DM you tomorrow

[hasty crown]

kk xo

[humble void]

Sleep well, I should be sleeping too

[hasty crown]

no rush. im easy.

[humble void]

Things that help people come back, and things that promote fun or weak playstyles

[hasty crown]

omg perfect. thats exactly the sorta stuff im into.

[humble void]

Also if it is a card that works (and has multiplayer mechanics for) an 8 player game mode, that would be huge

Cuz a lot of multiplayer stuff is just focused on a 1v1 situation

[hasty crown]

omg. add that to my list too. ill probs come up with a whole bunch for everhthing. gets me excited to theorize.

it be neat to have an 8 player joker that distributes the most ahead player's multi to the bottom 4 players or something. sort of an eat the rich senario. or maybe it would be money. who knows. i sleep now. i just love this mod and wanna help instead of sound like im an inptient whiny baby bitch who cant type bc shes tired.

[vocal pivot]

Mastermind
When you trigger a trap, +0.5x mult.
(starts at 1x mult)

i think it'd be fun to make triggering your opponent's traps be something you actively try to do if you have this guy

[hasty crown]

please, i luv this idea

[glacial terrace]

Super cool idea but wont 0.25 be better? I'm not too sure but from the survey most of the trap cards are pretty common experiences i think, but its all on you.

[vocal pivot]

balancing would be up to the dev team, kind of just depends on how often a trap is triggered

most of em are pretty common experiences but it seems unlikely that you would get more than at most two trap triggers per ante but that's just my speculation

only .25 from that to me seems a little underpowered for actively seeking out a negative effect on yourself

Leftovers
When a food joker gets eaten while you have this joker, give your nemesis an unsellable copy of it.

Final Destination
All player's consumable cards are destroyed at the start of a PvP blind. (Phantom to show all players)

justice counter ^^

the name is a reference to "final destination, no items, fox only"

Oops all 6s! (Changed for multiplayer)
Applies to both players now, but make it phantom

again, as a glass nerf

but also a lucky nerf/buff?

Apparition
Creates a random fake Phantom Joker. (the card actually does nothing, but it can be used to mind game)

Opposite Day
The player who scores lowest in the next PvP blind wins, then destroy this card. (cannot be sold, creates a phantom joker)

Handshake
At the end of a PvP blind, if all players played the same first hand this blind, gain $12 and other players gain $4.

Coconut
After 5 played hands, reduce your opponent's score by your current score (min 0) and destroy this card.

making these ideas is fun lol

[grave vessel]

I like the idea of fake phantoms, but I feel like it'd be really obvious it's fake, for example hanging bad, it just doesn't trigger its thing

[vocal pivot]

yeah i was thinking the same

though if more are added it's more likely to work

[grave vessel]

fake trap card could work too

[vocal pivot]

true

though i don't know how much that will change the way someone plays a hand compared to just a normal trap

[grave vessel]

it'd be for more advanced players, since they'd think ahead and know what trap cards do

but yeah, true

[vocal pivot]

that's true

[faint dawn]

Thrown Stone
Each played Stone Card has a 1/3 chance to destroy a random Glass Card in your Nemesis's deck.

This just ran through my mind, I don't like it, but stone cards getting a niche as an offensive tool might be neat

[tribal raft]

Afterlife
Cards that are destroyed (e.g., Hanged Man, Immolate, glass card breaking, etc) are sent to your Nemesis's deck.

powerful joker that can bloat the opponent's deck while discouraging glass card builds

[grave vessel]

I mean, if you have a glass build going, you're just never gonna pick it up

[trim juniper]

that can be said about a lot of vanilla jokers too though. you'd never pick up a ride the bus if you're doing a face card build, but that doesn't make ride the bus a bad joker

[tribal raft]

i mean i think they have a point tho, if you get ride the bus early you're way less inclined to make a face card build but my proposed joker is not a great early game joker

or we could make a consumable that sends a selected card in hand into the nemesis's deck

[grave vessel]

maybe, something like this

but make it a scaling joker

so like +mult for every card sent to your nemesis

or if you really wanna encourage it, make it x mult

it's kinda like the opposite of hologram

[tribal raft]

it would be funny if the opponent just had hologram and started farming

[grave vessel]

that'd go crazy with coop

[jolly vapor]

Delete let's go gambling

[humble void]

Why

[hasty crown]

let's go gambling actually had a pretty alright showing tonite at tournament

besides enternal gambling, lol

[jolly vapor]

Oh god

Eternal gambling actually sounds more fairy than not

Fair*

Or fun in some way idk

Maybe at a bigger cost

At that point I'd rather just have it be like red card but with times mult

I just said that because it has no multiplayer effect

And also puts like a random bullshit thing into games sometimes lol

[hasty crown]

they were just stuck there with 1x mult crying and maulding lol

they couldn't delete it and their slot was hostage

[hasty crown]

but yeah, one gambling got all the way up to 3x mult-- which their opponent may not have been so brave

but unfortunately invisible joker copied enteral SPEEDRUN and that doesn't stack-- we learned the hard way, lol

[humble void]

The Multiplayer effect is that both players have the exact same opportunity but based on their choices they can get an advantage

These things are seeded so the card will break on the same roll for both players

Its just how willing they are to gamble with it

[jolly vapor]

I guess lol

[jolly vapor]

Some effect that steals money from your opponent if you play a straight flush
Maybe it's like the V for Vendetta guy for flavor

it also makes picking painted and checkered more interesting which I like a lot personally

[silent geode]

Tarot card idea-thief. steal up to 2 of your opponents currently held consumables.

Spectral card idea-circus. Gives full jokers (uncommon/rare) , decreases all poker hands by 1 level for you.

Planet card idea-extinction. Decreases all poker hands by 1 level for the opponent.

Joker - card counter. Gives +mult equal to the size of your opponent's deck.

Spectral card idea-shuffle. Swaps random cards between your deck and your opponent's deck. Useful for getting good cards and screwing with plans.

[jolly vapor]

I would like this if it was like the left most consumable or something so you can block it

[rugged oxide]

nemisis tarot card idea - ring the bell, sends a discord ping noise through your opponents audio

what does this accomplish? nothing, except making your opponent check discord

[tribal raft]

“played hands start with no base chips or mult” might be more balanced since you might have level 1 hands only

or reset all hands to level 1

[silent geode]

Nemesis tarot card-insanity. Causes the opponent to see cards that aren't there (consumables/jokers) for 1 ante.

[patent cairn]

I am worried that maybe to random as there is a good chance the opponent is not holding a consumable but it would nerf observatory but would also make people more likely to use consumables faster making it harder to gain value from using them at the right time. What if it acted like fool but instead copied the last tarot or planet the opponent used.

[tawdry ivy]

i think a card that conditions the player to be uncertain about if something is there or not there is not a good idea personally (?

[jolly vapor]

That's entirely fair it does kill planetarium

[vocal pivot]

Doomsday Device
After 3 rounds, sell this Joker to destroy a random enemy joker

[kind night]

What about a joker that makes you immune to negative effects from opponent

[forest grove]

how about a consumable where if u held it it reverses a negative effect and then gets destroyed

maybe call it "sheild" or something

[spring locust]

Consumable that removes an edition from one random opponents card or joker

[quartz steppe]

Most valuable - with highest sell value
If multiple Jokers tie in sell values, one of them would be chosen randomly

[patent cairn]

Theses are good the effects would be annoying if they happen too often so it is good they are spectral. They both discourge rigid stratagies which would make for more fun and dynamic gameplay. Though if hallows shows up 3 times per game for both players that could be 6 times the most expensive joker is sold which maybe a bit much. This could happen with a ghost deck. Maybe have it stop appearing the second time a hallows is used.

[quartz steppe]

well, that's the downside of playing Ghost deck

it's volitile

for both players

even with vanilla spectrals

[tender crater]

apologies if these have already been suggested, but here's a few spectral card ideas:

1. Clairvoyance: Briefly peek at your nemesis's joker lineup. Deduct two-thirds of your money.

2. Interchange: Select 2 cards to swap with your nemesis at random.

3. Implantation: Pick a joker to swap with a random joker from your nemesis. Both jokers become eternal.

[river siren]

numerous ideas:
Shroud (Spectral): Randomly flip one of your nemesis' jokers permanently
Eternity (Spectral): Add eternal to a random joker of both players
Common Tag (Tag): When first obtained, send to your nemesis. Your next shop will contain a free common joker. Duplicate this tag and send all copies to your nemesis when blind is skipped.
Balance (Spectral): Balances your and your nemesis' money.
Filled Out (Voucher): -1 Consumable slot for both players
Matter (Voucher): -1 Joker slot for both players
Volatile (Spectral): Destroy a random joker from both players
Asteroid Belt (Joker): All celestial packs contain an Asteroid card
Impersonation (Joker): Debuff all jokers that both players have for both players (Excluding Impersonation)
Cleanup Crew (Joker): Creates a copy of all cards sold by your nemesis (must have room)
Turning Table (Joker): When losing a PvP blind, this joker gains xMult equal to how many times larger your nemesis' score was
reworks for boss-related vanilla stuff:
Boss tag: Gain +1 Hand and +1 Discard during next PvP blind
Director's cut/Retcon: Double payout after PvP blind if you lost/Debuff all consumable cards during PvP blinds
Luchador: When sold during PvP blind, reduce both player's remaining hands by 1
Matador: Gain 15$ after losing PvP blind
Chicot: All of both player's cards are debuffed for the first hand of a PvP blind

[winter sable]

New Spectral Card: Horcrux
Creates a negative copy of a Legendary Joker, -1 Life

[sage crown]

Hello, what about adding a binding of the mod to twitch. Conditional ability of viewers to influence the process

[rose bobcat]

I really like this idea

[lunar girder]

Thats cool, but i feel Like thats a Bit to strong, because Losing health gives you Money per round too. So maybe let it have another downside, maybe destroy a random Jonkler or smth

[vocal pivot]

yeah that's def wayyy too strong

lives are a resource, losing one means nothing if I get an insta win joker

[languid quarry]

I hope it's fine to post my suggestion in this format, I made it as fan art for reddit

[languid quarry]

Could easily swap the tags

[knotty marlin]

tbh I do want a consumable/joker that reduces your lives, mostly so I can then ask "can you commit suicide by picking it up/using it while on one life?"

[rugged oxide]

Id appreciate if wraith was switched to consuming a life. Often I am punished for winning as a wraith comes up while im ahead on econ

[patent cairn]

I don't know I think it is a catch up machanic. If you have $100 chances are in single player or multiplayer you are winning or atleast can use rerolls to get in a better position. However especially in multiplayer if you are falling behind a rare joker can really help and give you a chance when you are being stomped. The fact it hurts the winning player more makes it so the loosing player well likely still in a worse position has a chance. This leads to more close games which are alot more fun than games where one player is just dominant.

[rugged oxide]

one wraith can single handedly win a game, im all for catchup, but 10%-20% of wraiths are just an instant win if one player doesnt take it, a catchup mechanic should be an advantage to the losing player not a 1/10 to win

[patent cairn]

Fair point well I would argue that by the time a player has $30 most rare jokers are not an instant win. Most need setup and the way players tend to exponentally increase the chips they score means even doubling chips is not a instant win. However if both players already built up a massive xmult joker then one gets a blueprint or brainstorm then I could see that as a pretty much instant win. I would say that this kind of thing is inherent to Balataro even on the same seed. A joker booster pack may give any joker the wraith could and if both players are full of jokers one may decide to safe their money. Same for rerolls. I would say though there is not a non-legandary joker that is just instant win in any circumstance. I would argue that well there are flaws wraith as it is now improves the game.

[glacial terrace]

clever name btw

[glacial terrace]

like this idea but a coupon tag seems very op, bcos its rng based some guy could get very lucky and start steam rolling, maybe it could be one of the three booster packs or maybe a spectral pack and the 1 in 6 being the coupon

[languid quarry]

When I designed it, I originally had solo play in mind.

So this could be modified to fit multiplayer and make it more balanced, but I agree. Maybe target it down to one pack or maybe (spend X amount of dollars)

[glacial terrace]

hmmm yeah for singleplayer its a fantastic rare card, another question will it be blueprint compatible?

[languid quarry]

I wouldn't see why not.

Maybe for mutliplayer it could be "When you buy a booster pack, 1 in 4 chance to generate (x amount of money spent on booster pack) making that specific pack free, 1 in 6 for a coupon"?

[glacial terrace]

I like it

[languid quarry]

I originally gave it lucky card odds with the coupon at 1 in 15 but people said that was too weak

[glacial terrace]

hmmm yeah it might be

testing if it ever becomes a thing would do us good

[languid quarry]

But I do like the idea of a refund instead of a double tag.

Maybe set the money amount to a flat 5? That way the variable isn't changing so frequently and it rewards you if you have clearance / liquidation / astronomer joker

[silent geode]

Egg would become a meta joker if this existed.

[silent geode]

Different idea for horcrux, make it a spectral. All lives put into different joker rarities (if full, 1 legendary, 1 rare, 2 uncommon, 1 common), instead of losing a life, you lose one of said jokers, common to legendary. You die once all of the jokers are gone. If less than full, skip out the lower rarity jokers until all lives are put into jokers. Jokers made by horcrux would be negative.

Tarot idea - letter opener. Removes a seal from a random card in your opponent's deck.

Self destruct button-joker. Once bought, this card is sent to your opponent, filling one of their joker slots. If sold, destroys their most valuable joker.

Joker-card counter. Gains plus mult equal to the opponent's hand size.

[graceful spruce]

Nonbeliever Joker (Uncommon):

Tarot Cards held in your Consumables slot will not appear for your nemesis. Tarot Cards cannot appear in your shop.

[languid quarry]

I really like this

[graceful spruce]

It's meant as a way for players to basically 'ban' certain tarots, but denying yourself the viability of other tarots. You can ban Justice and Death and your opponent won't know, but they can still get other Tarot cards from the shop while you can't. I think it's pretty balanced for multiplayer balatro

Basically 'tarot blocking' your nemesis :P

It also adds some useful viablity for Showman... perhaps showman counteracts the effect 🤔

[knotty marlin]

tbh IMO that makes it better, as egg being meta would be hilarious

[vocal pivot]

justice is banned as of most recent update, but I like it

but it might be a bit strong to deny econ

[rugged oxide]

I recall we wanted more food jokers so

Free Sample [Common]

When blind is selected create a fool tarot and level up your nemisis most played hand, then destroy this card
Have the picture be like the sample cart at costco

[languid quarry]

That's a fun one

[graceful spruce]

You’re denying econ for yourself as well. Maybe it could be changed to the FIRST tarot card in your consumables to balance it out? That way, even if you ban hermit, your opponent still has access to temperance and vice versa.

There’s also a chance that your nemesis is going for Econ through other means like Rebate and is focusing on deck fixing instead, in which case your Nonbeliever is literally just helping your nemesis and hurting you. I think it’s SITUATIONALLY very good, but that’s how all jokers are.

[graceful spruce]

Two more, i'm done for now i swear

[frigid crest]

Is there any chance we can add a spectral card that puts the eternal tag on a random joker? Thanks!

[frigid crest]

Why are people that make meaningful decisions early game being punished by timer?
The 2 minute timer is very oppressive to making value plays, specially in the first 2 antes. If you pick the value play, taking an econ joker, its hard enough trying to make your hands in the early game, when its the toughest, not to mention spending mindfully in shops. Making the first time timer 3 minutes would help a lot with this. Forcing people to use speed with handy isn't the solution when it can become a compatibility and a source of dcs at any time. Thanks!

[vast saddle]

Better idea; allow people to customize the timer, and even disable it entirely?

[flat pivot]

JOKER IDEA: The Blob- Every $10 you feed this joker, gain x1 mult (Max x4)

[vast saddle]

You could also uncap it, but have it's feed requirements increase? Maybe each feed is ^1.2 (rounded) of the previous?

Eventually the cost will get out of hand, and it would test your econ

[flat pivot]

Not opposed to the idea! I know there are some broken ways to get money so I would hesitate for this scenario: you have $200 in a shop, you run into a blob, and feed it like 7 times to instantly get a x7

[vast saddle]

On a 1.2^ feed ramp first 6 feed costs:
10, 16, 28, 55, 122, 319

Getting 7x would be INSANE

7x would cost 1'011

[flat pivot]

when you put it like that I like it better with the 1.2^

[vast saddle]

4x is about where it would soft-cap, 5x is possible, 6x in the perfect setup, and if you ever went higher then congratulations, you're elon musk of balatro

[flat pivot]

lmaooo

[vast saddle]

Love the concept tho!

[vocal pivot]

sounds cool, though I think it would be better suited as a separate thing in a different mod, since it doesn't really do anything with the multiplayer mod

[graceful spruce]

I'll be making art of this later, but:

EQUALIZE (Spectral Card):

Equalize your and your Nemesis' money.

[quasi coral]

Do you know what would be very cool? an arcane card that can reveal your nemesis's jokers or deck

and maybe also we can have like jokers that give out the effects the final boss blinds give (ie a joker that gives the violent vessel effect)

[vocal pivot]

i believe the first thing is planned for the future

[heavy needle]

I was thinking about a rework to chicot and luchador that apply a random boss for your nemisis during pvp

Like imagine your about to lose and then chicot gives them the plant

peak comedy

https://tenor.com/view/balatro-chicot-ronald-mcdonald-legendary-joker-gif-15560012248136535311

Obviously it would be seeded so if both players have chicot they would both get the same boss

[stoic briar]

junk mail- Add a random (no enhancements/editions/seals) card to Nemesis's deck whenever they select a blind
uncommon, $6

[stoic briar]

capacitor- records highest scoring hand while joker is held. when sold, sets current score to the stored score
uncommon, $5

envious joker- gains +0.1x mult when x mult higher than this joker's current x mult is triggered

rare, $7

[balmy oxide]

i wanna see more troll stuff in this mod like imagine Amber Acorn as a joker

[floral bear]

Random pvp joker ideas:

oops no sixes: all probabilities for both players are reduced to 0.
I feel like it would be interesting for countering let’s go gambling/lucky card builds. And would give glass cards more survival.

Siphon: gain lives that your opponent loses, lose 1$ times the number of rounds this joker is held.
Could be interesting for extending the length of runs, but has a serious downside to incentivize pivots.

Wild trip: Shuffle your opponents hud and settings every 15-20 seconds. (Card order, joker order, game speed, card art/contrast colors, and audio)
It would be funny.

I’m very sleep deprived as of writing this. Apologies if this is nonsense.

[vocal pivot]

siphon has the risk of making games last forever

[patent cairn]

It could have a use limit for total uses across run. Like if it was 3 and you sold it after gaining 2 lives then bought another siphon from shop you could only get 1 more life from it. I think it would still be unfun. It is kind of a win more joker and would still extend games. Games currently have a well defined win and loose condition with limited lives and siphon messes with it. Maybe there could be a gamemode based on it where you have to win 3 times in a row. We could call it dominance.

[raven coral]

Truce joker rare 15$:
if both you and your opponent have this joker destroy this joker and get 50$

[stoic briar]

Wait but like
-if your opponent doesn't have it, you just lose $15 + temporary joker slot by taking it
-if your opponent does have it, by taking it you gain $35 but your opponent gains $50

So in neither case is taking the joker good so it becomes a prisoners dilemma thing

I guess maybe if you are really poor you need $35 more than your opponent needs $50 but idk

[raven coral]

No both you and your opponent have to buy it for 15$ so it’s a risk if you buy it or not

Your opponent would also only gain 35$

Because they have to buy it too

[stoic briar]

They go from -15 to +35 depending on whether you take it (if they already did)

What I mean is that given what their decision already is, in both cases it's better to not take it

[still forum]

Hipster (Joker, Common)
+20 Mult. Disabled until the end of the round if you play a hand your opponent played in the same PvP round.

One Man's Trash (Joker, Uncommon)
Whenever your opponent exits a booster pack, you have a 1 in 2 chance to gain one of the options they did not take.

Traditionalist (Joker, Rare)
Scored cards that have not been modified grant 1.25X Mult. If your opponent does not have a copy of that card, they grant 1.5X Mult instead.

The idea here is that, while none of these explicitly benefit the losing player, they end up being slightly stronger for them due to the systems they interact with.

Hipster benefits diverging from the most easily accessible hands for the seed, which is more beneficial when you haven't already sunk resources into upgrading those options. It also doubles as a strong PvE option, since it can only disable itself in PvP blinds.

One Man's Trash is pretty straightforward; a player with more economy will be able to afford more booster packs, and thus the player with less economy will benefit more. This also has the potential downside of polluting your deck if there's a lot of bad cards in Standard Packs, which is another reason a player who's ahead might not want it.

Similarly, Traditionalist rewards not modifying your cards, particularly when your opponent has modified those cards. To be clear, I don't intend for it to not function on, say, one Jack of Diamonds, because it was created using Death, while the Jack of Diamonds that started in the deck does work. 'Unmodified' is intended to just be enhancements, editions, and seals.

[frigid crest]

I liked Dr. Spectred's idea of banning death instead of justice since you risk your glass cards each time you play them and you can't replenish them as fast with death out of the picture, especially on red seals.

[quartz steppe]

Death is fun
Justice is not

[frigid crest]

Death is 2 much of a braindead taro imo, you copy your best card and remove one of the worst cards in your deck at the same time, its too good as a deck fixing taro, while justicing without death to copy adds risk to the reward of playing the glass and a harder time of replenishing the ones that break because you have to strength and then glass it or find it in standard packs.

[vocal pivot]

death is indeed fun but it's probably the best tarot outside of money

without death it becomes a lot harder to spec into something specific like glass retriggers unless you find something like a DNA

defo worth the try

[raven moat]

hi. I don't think people are going to agree with me on this but,
I think the rework on Hanging chad should be removed or changed.
If you want people from Xmult maxxing with Photograph, then rework photograph. or make hanging chad retrigger the second card twice.

right now, hanging chad is a worse version of Sock and buskin or Dusk. the whole point/strength of it is the retriggers that happen on one card.

[rugged oxide]

chad should be a worse version of sock my buskin or dusk, its a common

[quartz steppe]

yep

[raven moat]

yes that makes sense!

but shouldn't every joker be different somehow?
are there another pair of jokers having a very similar behaviour but one is just a bad version of the other one?

ps I'm not arguing just asking

[rugged oxide]

Shoot the moon and baron come to mind

Blueprint brainstorm

Not that brainstorm is bad

But its worse than blueprint

Gluttonous and Onyx Agate

[raven moat]

yup got it

[vocal pivot]

i think it's different enough anyway since it's unconditional

[rugged oxide]

joker ideas

"those in glass houses..." (uncommon)

at the start of each blind, add a stone card to your opponents deck

"...should not throw stones" (uncommon)

any card your opponent plays in a pvp blind has a 1/2 chance to break

i know nemisis cards are more meant to help you than hurt your opponent, but asteroid is the most fun card to use in the game, and another card that is just a "fuck you" to the other player might be fun

[vocal pivot]

One Man's Trash
When your nemesis sells a joker or consumable, create a copy of it. (Must have room).

[raven moat]

it should sell for 0 otherwise it's an infinite money maker if both opponents have it.

although, it makes a pretty fun mechanic

[nocturne cargo]

I like the idea of having cards that have you influence your opponent’s deck. With how consistent the meta seems to be with retriggers, disruption jokers/consumables could be really fun

[rugged oxide]

its odd to me that the only card that lets you fuck with your opponent is asteroid, even the proposed trap cards are more help me than hurt you. the issue in my mind is the fear of "overcorrecting" and creating a win con from just fucking with your opponent. you dont want to be in a position where ive done 5 antes of elite deck fixing and its undone because my opponent got a card to mess with me. but i think theres ways to do it that are more annoying and limiting rather than a win con

[nocturne cargo]

I guess for me I like the idea of it being a win con because it adds another element of strategy. Do you take “those in glass houses” to mess with the opponent and sacrifice a joker slot or just play normal? How many rounds do you need to play it to make a substantial difference

I see what you mean though, you dont want to make something like that too strong. I dont think someone should be able to solely play jokers like that and make it their WHOLE strategy, but I like the idea of being able to mess with them especially if you know your opp has fixed their deck better than you

[nocturne cargo]

Can you imagine your “should not throw stones” with oops all 6s

[rugged oxide]

oh lmfao yeah youd have to change it so oops and it doesnt just end the game

[unreal cliff]

Clairvoyance (uncommon) - If your first scored hand on the previous round was the hand your opponent scored first in the next one create a spectral card

[unreal cliff]

Veto (uncommon) - can't be sold or copied. When your least played hand is scored destroy this joker and debuff your nemesis joker at the same position for this round. If hits another Veto both are destroyed

(same as the Gros Michel won't reappear for the rest of the run)

[graceful sierra]

We don't want to add a joker which incentives you to cheat (by watching them stream as they play or whatever)

Like, during the tourney, it would be impossible to prevent a player from watching the stream of their opponent to see what hand to play

However
That gives me an idea for a really interesting joker:
Common
Each time your opponent ends a shop without selling a joker, earn $15

Would probably be really bad, but it would be funny

[wooden plank]

it would be cracked lol

[wooden plank]

it is impossible even now lol

players always can get the advantage watching his nemesis stream

like you literally can see the good jokers you should roll for faster in the shop

know what packs not to buy etc

[knotty marlin]

I swear, people stream sniping in balatro multiplayer of all things

[broken vine]

How sure how well this would work but how about a set of jokers that impose boss blinds during PVP, concidering plant is what makes face cards balanced in normal balatro, I feel like it could add variety, but also come with the cost of a joker slot

[wooden plank]

but how you would balance them

[normal tundra]

Feed Me! (Rare)

At the end of a PVP boss blind, this joker eats another random joker amongst your jokers and your opponents jokers and gains ×1 Mult

And the art is Audrey II from Little Shop Of Horrors

I like making up jokers from the top down, really, so if they're op, uh, idk

Rage Bait (Rare)

This joker gives +mult equal to the amount of messages sent in #🤬crash-outs, divided by 100

[broken vine]

Well if it doesn’t impact scoring then 1 joker slot it would take to have such a powerful effect would work for balance I think. That said not every boss blind like the needle would be playable. I feel that would be OP

[dull warren]

Astral Projection (Joker)
Disables the Joker your Nemesis currently has in the same Joker slot as Astral Projection.

I think this could create interesting mind games between hands as both players frantically shuffle their jokers around.

[wooden plank]

i think that opp should see the debuff effect

[raven moat]

that would mean they can just move their Jokers and put the worst one there

[wooden plank]

uhmm prly yeah

one played hand is enough to see what slot is debuffed

but on the other hand

this joker can broke game very easilt

[raven moat]

yes, but it does take one hand at the very least

[wooden plank]

i suggested something similar couple of days ago but now i don't think it is the good idea

[raven moat]

yes that's for sure. im not sure how the real timing and syncing would work

unless the syncing happens only before every round

[wooden plank]

even if so it is broken

if hits on baron for example

free win

no skill involved

[raven moat]

mhm that makes sense

it's either too op or too weak with every idea that comes to my mind

[wooden plank]

i still like the idea of debuffing enemy but is hard to come up with something adequately balanced

[wooden plank]

exactly

like i was thinking maybe skip tag that applies 5 asteroid effects is nice

but skipping for 5 is nothing let's be real

on the other hand skipping for 10 is way too strong

[raven moat]

imagine a Joker that creates an asteroid every 2 planets used

"the Eclipse"

[normal tundra]

Legendary joker that, whenever you sell a planet, you get 2 asteroids

[wooden plank]

WOW THIS IDEA IS STRAIGHT DOPE

[wooden plank]

YES !!YES!!

WOAAAAH

[calm schooner]

The Devil You Know: Every 6 times a three of a kind is played using only 6's, this joker gains X6 mult and +6 mult.

[graceful sierra]

Funny
But also damn, that goes from useless to gamebreaking so fast

[normal tundra]

Also doesnt seem too multiplayer focused

[normal tundra]

Call it Ziggy, and the art is David Bowie in his Ziggy Stardust outfit

Was he Ziggy Stardust when he wrote The Man Who Sold The World? Bc thatd be funny

[nimble hatch]

Shot put joker - uncommon- gain 0.25x mult for each stone card you have more than your opponent

[frigid crest]

This is how i would attempt to fix xmult retriggers: start from a good baseline of xmult on the first trigger and subtract some xmult with each next retrigger, the subtraction can be linear or more aggressive and tapers off to a specific value like 1.1x at the end, lets say idol: start with 2.5x on the first trigger then 2x then 1.5x then 1x, make sure it doesnt go below 1 :). This is ment to be an example. This way they are powerful but not blow out off the water other flat xmult jokers.

[normal tundra]

thisd only give 40 mult rn maybe its balanced

kappa

[quasi coral]

pepping tom -common- Revel opponent's jokers when sold

Insult to Injury -common- gain a spectral card every time you enter a shop with higher money than your opponent

Thumb posed -rare- if sold, have 1 in 4 chance of winning blind (even PvP blind)

[rugged oxide]

i had the same idea for the first guy but wanted to call him jimbo holmes

[misty bough]

I nearly posted the first one but ongoing (instead of on-sell) and higher rarity as “Screencheating”

Garbage Blocks - Rare?
When you destroy a playing card, it is added to your Nemesis deck.

The art is of 1v1 Tetris. There is a large pile of garbage blocks on the way to the opponent.

[vocal pivot]

insult to injury is kind of just win more a lot of the time, I don't think the devs want those kinds of cards
thumb posed seems just kind of broken with oops, and doesn't lend itself to any really interesting gameplay imo

[patent cairn]

Spectral awakening -uncommon- Both players gain a spectral pack at the end of each bind.

In theory this is a terrible joker. It gives you and your opponent the same benifit but takes up a joker slot. However spectral cards are pretty chaotic so if you are loosing they may save you. Basically this joker acts as a hail mary.

[normal tundra]

Beggar- Rare

Your opponent cannot skip after opening a booster pack.

(as in, they cant not take something from a booster pack. beggars cant be choosers)

maybe disabled in uh, black stake and above given eternal jokers

[vocal pivot]

i think it'd be fine with eternal jokers, it'd just need to prevent people from opening buffoon packs when they don't have enough non eternal slots to take them

but that seems very strong specifically for jokers since it can control what your nemesis can see

or if they do see, they have to sell

but it's interesting

[naive pagoda]

The Sandbagger - Uncommon
Description: "0.25x Mult for each digit in your opponents score on the previous PvP Blind"
Would give 0.25 xmult for each digit, but starting from zero. at one thousand it would just be x1, but at one million it would be 1.75x and at one billion it would be 2.5x

i really think the idea of using your opponents score to help your own would be nice, as it really could be a way to come back from dire situations. if your opponent had e15 for example, it would give 4x, which is by no means a game winning amount, but it could make the difference in a pinch. If the numbers or name or anything about the concept needs tweaking, i dont mind, I just really want to see some sort of comeback joker based on how high your opponent is scoring if you are in a losing position.

notes:
-would be whatever opponents score was on previous pvp blind, or highest score not including this pvp blind, as otherwise it would become a standoff and no one would ever play their hands
-If it was too op, maybe instead 0.25x for each digit your oppenent has more than you, but starting with 1x instead of 0x
-could maybe only work during pvp blind? or maybe only update when you enter the pvp blind instead of when you leave it.

[vocal pivot]

i like this idea because it lends itself to interesting strategy
someone can try to get a 3-4 digit score and lose to depower it

the starting at 0 is strange but it makes sense

i think it might be a bit underpowered

I'd say have it start at 1x maybe

[spring locust]

Stockjoker - both you and your opponent gain between + 10 and - 10 $ at the end of round

[spring locust]

This is a cool idea, but i do think it should scale more just to make a difference. Either .5 or .75 would probably make it better

[cinder lodge]

Casino Joker - Rare Rig the odds of wheel of fortune and other jokers that involve chance to not be in your nemesis' favor (e.g wheel of fortune being a 0.5 in 4 chance)

[quasi coral]

that made me think of something

Betting joker -uncommon- : make a bet if your opponent will win or lose the next Blind

[cinder lodge]

you gain your joker back with an enhancment if you are correct and lose the joker permenantly if you are wrong (note: you bet with other jokers)

[balmy oxide]

day two of asking for more mechanics to troll your nemesis

[cinder lodge]

they should make a new pack: Nemesis Pack

[balmy oxide]

And inside, have a joker that's like "Flips and shuffles your nemesis's jokers when in Pvp blind"

[cinder lodge]

another joker: celibate joker - "debuffs all heart cards your nemesis has (and debuffs bloodstone and lusty)"

[patent cairn]

Maybe it so be called celibate joker to juxsipose lusty joker.

[normal tundra]

Voucher idea

Tackboard: when bought, apply eternal, pinned and negative to your opponents leftmost joker

[normal tundra]

With the 2nd level being

Town Square: Remove Nagative from ALL of your opponents jokers

[patent cairn]

This sounds like it would be upside for you oppent most of the time. If you don't get level 2 which is fairly likely

[normal tundra]

I can inagine it sucking for early game tho

Like imagine the seed gives you something like an early Xmult joker

And you tackboard your opponents joker

Now its permanently to the left

I feel like itd be too powerful if it didnt make it negative tho

Like just making ur opponent waste a slot on like, a common joker is tough

(For those unaware, Pinned is the effect that makes On A Knifes Edge work the way that it does, with dagger permanently on the left)

I think its gotta be pinned and eternal tbh, otherwise they can just sell it

[hasty crown]

ooo, i like

[graceful sierra]

Yeah, I've been trying to think of a similar solution myself

[round oasis]

cautious joker:
gains 0.15x mult for each blind ended with less score than the opponent

[frigid crest]

sadly face cards are 2 favorable to play into, they get 3 extra econ jokers (business card, reserved parking and midas mask) together with the only xmult retriggerable common, i will not take trib into account because its really rare. have you considered removing those and the photograph to make the game more opportunistic so not everyone goes flush 5 faces from the start instead of playing more into what they find? and if you say you can always play a pareidolia, as an uncommon is somewhat difficult to find and its not a consideration since you play 1 joker down with close to 0 upside.

[cinder lodge]

Oops! All Shattered! /uncommon/ forces all your opponents glass cards to shatter no matter what. It would be a good counter to the glass card xmult meta as they all shatter, but they wont know as it happens after the hand is played.

[cinder lodge]

this would work best with a tarot card: Spy Bot. It lets you see the opponents deck screen, the one you see when you click on your deck

[faint dawn]

Broadway
Uncommon
When you play an ace high straight (A K Q J 10), steal $5 from your Nemesis.

[patent cairn]

Maybe make it break for both players

[vocal pivot]

a feature like this is planned

[vocal pivot]

I don't think this is very good as is right now
for one, glass cards are massively nerfed now (1.5x, no justice)
but second, usually jokers like this that don't contribute to your build and only exist as counterplay end up not being very strong (see: hanging bad from the last major update)

[woeful mural]

Weird thought but:
What about an joker that adds an Vanilla "Boss Blind Debuff" to your opponent during nemesis match?

It would take up a joker slot on your end, and it wouldn't actually help you score... "only" give the opponent disadvantage in the Nemesis blinds .

"Boss Joker"
"Idk" rarity
"During nemesis matches, a random vanilla Boss blind debuff is applied to your opponent".

(Stuff like The Wall, with "extra large boss blind" would effectively be an 2x multiplier on your end)

[round oasis]

I think this was discussed before and its not very good cause its just rng

most games your opponent will just lose if the joker hits plant

most others are useless

[vocal pivot]

there is currently a feature that is buggy but in the mod that lets you enable boss blind effects

[woeful mural]

Makes sense, i suppose,🤔 Obviously such an obvius effect would had been considered..

[woeful mural]

While i'm here and inspired:

Name "The Peaker"
Rarity: "Up for debate"

Effect:
Allows the for the player to see the other players jokers.

Possible additional effect:
Copies one joker your nemesis has that you do not have/ When selling it copies a joker your nemesis has that you don't.

Reasoning:
In a game with hidden information, having an effect to make it less hidden is an obvious debate to be had. (aka, how bad does it feel to play against?). Practical uses can be a quick buy'n'sell for a snapshot of your nemesis, or holding on and let the opponent scout ahead for you to help you judge if you want to reroll the shop or not.

The possible additional effect was added due to me thinking "if you want a joker that copies the opponent you need to be able to see them"...and a fear of the base effect being to bad. Having said that i can see the "When seeling copy a joker your nemesis has that you don't" doesn't require you to be able to see the opponent.

[woeful mural]

Name: Dark Dealer
__Rarity:__Rare... i think.

Effect:
When Purchasing the joker, you and your nemesis gain the same random negative Joker.

Reasoning:
Interactive, fun, the opponent can't feel bad about it.....also i was in "write ideas" mode....i think i'm done now, sorry about the spam, but maybe some of it will stick.

[drowsy night]

Voucher idea
Idk the name

Tier 1: +1 life
Tier 2: +1 life

[versed crane]

i feel like that’s too op

and would make games last way more

[pallid forge]

How about Tier 1 nothing and tier 2 +1 life

Like antimatter

[normal tundra]

I dont hate this

Maybe tier 1 is called Snake Oil and tier 2 is called Miracle Cure or something

[vocal pivot]

seems okay
though I don't think that would be worth taking prob

[pallid forge]

Yeah but could be a clutch

And personally I would take it each time just for the cinema

[lapis marlin]

maybe something that reduces both of your lives by 1, but can't decrease it below 1 (can't die to this alone) So if both players bought it, you'd be down 2 lives

would be fun for reducing the length of games

+lives would make games last far too long (they already take a while)

[round oasis]

I think thats bad design for rewarding the winning player

[lapis marlin]

how does it reward the winning player more than the losing player

it punishes both sides equally, and the losing player is more likely to be at 1 life then the winning player

i guess you could make the argument that it encourages the losing player to take it and not the winning player if one person is at 1

[round oasis]

1-2 is worse for the 1hp than 2-3 most cases

Decreases the time you have to find scaling

The winning player would have a voucher to buy and the losing player has a useless voucher

[lapis marlin]

if it gave a payout no matter what, would that be worth it?

so say the person is on 1hp, they take the voucher and get a payout but didnt actually lose any lives

so theyd get +$2 (-10, +12)

but the enemy would get -1 lives, and +$8 or 4xhow many lives they have

[frigid crest]

I suggest removing magnet from the joker pool, it favors 2 much the player with more lives, especially when his opponent is at 1 life. With invis you sacrifice the entire board to get a specific copy while with magnet, because of how the order works you are almost guaranteed the joker you want for your setup.

[naive pagoda]

it seems somebody hasnt seen the legendary pants gambit

(basically editions are the main counterplay to this)

or egg/gift card

those are silly things you can do as well

if you see a magnet egg for even just two rounds outsells anything else you could get

and negatives

if your opponent finds ANY negatives instantly magnet becomes useless

[spring cairn]

ok

[vernal ice]

Is there a way to change conjoined Joker? What was the idea behind having a time based Joker when the timer ist now 180 seconds? It feels like something that is entirely random and not skill based at all

[winter sable]

New Card Idea: Joker In Shining Armor (Uncommon)
Gives an extra hand and discard if owner would lose in a PvP blind, self destructs afterwards

[harsh pilot]

Joker Idea:

Vengeful Joker (common)
If held when losing a PVP blind, gain X(3 or 4) mult. Resets on winning a PVP blind.

Reasoning: it provides a way to keep the game roughly even if you feel like you're on the losing side, while not being a Joker you could really win with and still being able to be taken over if your opponent is strong enough.

[harsh pilot]

I'm gonna pretend I didn't send my 2nd joker idea because I legit just copied your idea without realizing. Sorry.

[winter sable]

nah alg lol

[unreal jolt]

just thought about a version of oops! all sixes that affects only your opponent and not you. it shows up in the phantom slot and i think its good because it could either really help (bloodstone builds, lucky cat) or really harm (glass card builds) your opponent

[harsh pilot]

Hear me out
Snake Eyes: halve all probabilities for you and your nemesis, excluding glass because that would be OP

[unreal jolt]

i also like "weighted dice" as an option

[harsh pilot]

Also i just discussed this in crash outs
Potential small rework to idol to make it slightly less busted:
The selected card now gets rerolled on skipping to reduce its consistency

[round oasis]

definitely not

why do you want to make it more rng?

[vocal pivot]

why would you make idol even more cringe

[harsh pilot]

Mainly because when iy does hit its basically an instant win button
Getting triple the chances to bring it into the pvp blind kinda makes it incredibly good.

[cinder lodge]

Voucher idea: Switcheroo / only appears after pvp blind 2 / Switch a random joker from your nemesis' jokers with a eternal sandbag joker (does nothing)

[harsh pilot]

Tarot Card: The Sadist

Enhances 1 or 2 selected cards to sadistic cards, which gain xmult proportional to how many lives you've lost, up to 2x. It scales the same if you have 3 starting lives or 10. This way they can be better than nerfed glass, but only in a desperation move on your last life. Maybe OP idk.

Also a blood soaked card design would look kinda cool i think

[ornate umbra]

it makes it where almost every game is going to go to the last pvp blind due to every other pvp blind having one person with a higher multx

also pretty much wipes any other build other than ff

[tribal needle]

Spectral card idea: Blue Shell
If opponent's score is more >X2 than yours at end of PVP round, earn 20 dollars and a planet card for your highest level hand

Could be a voucher instead, or a joker.

[forest gulch]

Unkillable joker, rare, if you were to lose your last life, destroy this joker instead. Allows the loosing player to come back for another life, and find a joker that will help them win with the cost being loosing that joker slot for a bit and the other opponent can still improve their build.

[vocal pivot]

i think that this needs to at the very least become extinct as in never appear again like gros michel

[forest gulch]

Yes, it should not be copyable by showman/invis as well to balance it more. It shouldn't work with blueprint/brainstorm either and it should 100% become extinct when destroyed do avoid games going on forever.

[thick portal]

I could imagine this being really annoying but considering you're losing a joker slot for it, and hence pretty much guaranteeing you lose the next pvp, it basically just serves to stall out another three rounds

100% needs to be uncopyable and go extinct

reckon it could be well balanced though, and could lead to some interesting gameplay

it's just one of those that needs a lot of testing in actual gameplay before we can get a good bearing on it lol

[forest gulch]

Thanks for reading my idea 🙂 I think it would be strategic and interesting as it gives the losing player more time, like allowing them to find a retrigger when they really need one. It would 100% need some testing to see how it works and interacts with the game. It could have a different name/some cool art as well if anyone has any suggestions.

[ornate umbra]

i could see it being used if your oppo picks up a perishable joker in gold stakes

[cinder lodge]

name: Spare Joker (drew this in a couple mins)

[forest gulch]

I really like that! Brilliant art and I like the bowling related name. A joker which "spares" you in a way but is also a bowling term too.

[cinder lodge]

thanks!! if you look at the text that says "bowling" , i tried to make it look like the balatro logo

[forest gulch]

Nice detail! I wonder what the joker it would look like negative too. Another cool use case that it counters seltzer as you force your opponent to use lot's of triggers on it and same-ish with bean.

[cinder lodge]

i made it negative

[restive steppe]

(mild deltarune ch4 spoiler)
||Jackenstein||
||Uncommon||
||You can activate the anti-stall timer at any time. If neither player is at the boss blind by the time it hits zero, only the player who activated the timer loses a life.||

[forest gulch]

The negative looks great too! If the spare joker was to hypothetically be added to the game, should it show up as a fantom or not? If it didn't show up for your opponent, then it would be stronger as it acts a surprise, might use consumables/temp jokers (stelzer and perishables) but your opponent could of seen it in the shop queue and be able to play around it too. It could be shown as a fantom if it's too powerful though as a way to balance it. Also should it say something else instead of "extinct" when destroyed? Perhaps "gutter" or "spared"

[elder coyote]

Joker: Gambit
0.1x mult outside of pvp. Gives $10 upon completing a non-pvp blind. Destroys itself and gives $25 upon death outside of pvp

I want to hear what people have to think, came up with this last night and I haven’t been able to break it

[rugged oxide]

the second part of that is ALOT of money, like ante 1 auto take and im just sacking a life

but i do like it

[elder coyote]

I’m down to balance it in any way, I just want to make sure the concept works/is fun

[rugged oxide]

Based and open-minded pilled

[cinder lodge]

probably yeah! It would probably say "spared" if they wanted to nerf it it could have a 1 in 10 chance of failing "Gutter Ball!"

[rustic bone]

(technically negatives dont just invert color) im grasping at straws saying that tho it will still look fire

[cinder lodge]

i learnt that they aint just inverted their hue shifted aswell so i did that a bit

[rustic bone]

i wanna see the actual shader code to figure out how it works

but i think ppl did that already, and u can find their implementations online so u can upload ur own images

[inland basin]

Joker Idea:

Name: Tug-of-War
Rarity: Uncommon (or Rare)

What It Does:
If x = combined lives of you and your Nemesis:

If the combined lives are odd,
gain (x/10) xMult.
If the combined lives are even, gain (10/x) xMult.

Works the other way around if you have less lives.

Is never Phantom, and the change in xMult only changes based on the conditions at the start of an ante.

Why?

Imagine a game starts, and both players find that card. That’s 1.25x Mult for both.

Initially, that might seem like there is no advantage, which is boring.

But then, imagine you win the first round. Now the combined number of lives is 7.

For you, this is bad, now you’re losing xMult. You gotta deal with a joker giving you 70% mult. (Your case is 7/10)

For your opponent, this is good—now they are getting 1.43x. (Their case is 10/7).

For you, you have to play around your blinds at a disadvantage, as your opponent is scoring a net advantage of about 2x. (0.70 vs 1.43x)

If you lose a life to a blind, you just set everything back to neutral, with the total lives at 6. (Both get 1.66x Mult)

Now, you could sell your joker to rid yourself of that disadvantage, or, you could make a risky double down, and see if you can defeat your opponent again despite the difference. If you lose, it’s back to neutral. If you win, you just put the Nemesis at the disadvantage. (You gain 1.67x mult, they “”gain”” 0.6x mult).

Now, the opponent is pressured to either sell their card to rid their disadvantage, hold on to it to try to win the next pvp despite the disadvantage, or lose another life to set the advantage back to them.

If they sell it, now you are the one who has to play by the Joker’s rules of advantages and disadvantages. You could put them into their final life, but then the combined lives is 5, where you get 50%, and your Nemesis gets 2x.

Because the xMult sticks until the start at the ante, you can’t “intentionally lose a life” to flip the script. You gotta either sell your joker, or hope if that disadvantage is not enough, or lose the next boss blind to set you at the advantage, but that also risks your opponent gaining momentum given the money/econ to where they can sell the Joker for something better that they earned.

Because this is likely ante 5 in a “1-4” case, the Nemesis might not have any more uses for the Joker, and you don’t know if they even have the joker at that point, so do you want to lose a life to get that 2.5x Mult when your opponent might not need it as they may have something better at ante 6?

If it’s “1-2,” your Nemesis is at the advantage, but you still got two lives.

If it’s “1-1,” by this point, you might not need this joker anymore, but either way, whoever still has this joker gets 5x mult, which is still a decent value.

Idk, is this a good idea? I know it’s not amazing, specifically for situations where the lives are “2-4” and “1-3,” but perhaps something can be worked around for this, where the player with less lives always gets the advantage? It’s a joker that’s meant to make players make risks.

[regal sun]

Bloodstone nerf: Change it to hit a random suit -- it doesn't change each round like Ancient, but when you find it in the shop it has a 25% of being related to each suit, and then what's what it is for the rest of the game

[cinder lodge]

that ruins the entire point of it being called bloodstone

[dim whale]

waitttt

this is kinda heat

[inland basin]

Gonna spitball an idea that I’m not even sure is that good but might be cool?

Name: “Blindfold”
Rarity: Rare

Either,

Gives 2x mult. Current value doubles ONLY in PVP blinds, but flips, shuffles, and hides your cards, and halves itself afterwards.

OR

Gives 1x mult. Using tarot cards increases it by 0.1x. Current value doubles ONLY in PVP blinds, but flips, shuffles, and hides your cards, and halves itself afterwards.

Reason: Can be very strong, but also puts up quite the risk if you play your cards wrong. Say you have Mail-In. Say you have Business. Say you have Reserved. You might be better off farming econ than using it. You might be better playing a better hand. It helps if you have jokers that more easily gives chips/mult (like Mystic Summit, or Blue Joker), but is that the risk you want to take?

I’m more partial to the second one, personally.

[inland basin]

Just gonna put a thumbtack on this because I want to expand upon this:

What if there was a multiplayer joker that utilized selling it/keeping it, and revolved around the Prisoner’s Dilemma?

[inland basin]

Like, I guess I wonder what you all think of it as a concept before expanding upon it.

[humble void]

This is straight from our internal BMP content sheet which consists of content that has passed the initial checks for being probably a good idea and might be put into the mod at some point:
Handshake (Common Joker): If multiple players have this joker at the beginning of the PvP blind, destroy this joker and gain $20

[inland basin]

That’s so cool! Thanks for telling!

[surreal token]

Diaspora (Common Joker): If both players have this joker at the start of a PvP blind, destroy it and create 2 random Jokers.

(shop queue? Maybe a tag queue like Common or Uncommon?)

Same flavor, but I'm a riff raff lover haha.. Hard to believe, but I hadn't read Handshake before submitting this idea lol. $ is definitely a great "choice forward" reward

Obscuring Mist (Uncommon Joker?): Your first hand will display 3X score to the enemy players until they play their 2nd hand.

(Or maybe to avoid >2 player complication just 1st hand displays 3x.. you have to play the 2nd if they outscore in truth anyways.. it's more a mind game type card to maybe bait glass breaks)

[forest parcel]

Some stone card related jokers (very saturated):
no name for the ideas but

1. Stone cards give X1 mult when scored, increased by 0.1x for each stone card more than your opponent in your deck (Rare, so you dont have to play into it super hard early)
2. Each time you gain a stone card (by conversion or creation), add a stone card to your opponent's HAND (not deck, unless they are in a shop / cashout - cryptid style)

[quartz steppe]

Are PvP tags are still on the table? https://discord.com/channels/1226193436521267223/1354554364844441730

Suggested these a while ago

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z82_NU-gyovGLT8QVuOnF1d5zlmAUcYBgg2QQrNtUA0/edit?usp=drivesdk

What's the vision for PvP exclusive content atm anyways?

[rustic bone]

20 stone cards in opponent hand 😆

insta kill them if they dont have good fixing

[forest parcel]

wait you cryptid a shit ton of stone cards in the pvp and they just lose LMAO

THAT WOULD BE SO FUNNY

YOU PERKEO TOWER

and it would count if you turn a stone card into a stone card

PLEASE add this

It wouldn't even be broken because you need rocks for it to do anything

[dim crypt]

nerf photo to 1.5

[forest parcel]

photo is an okay joker

[deft wyvern]

this would singlehandedly make it worthless

photo is fine as is

[knotty marlin]

now that chad is not nearly as oppressive with photo, photo's true value shines more clearly

and it's decent

[opaque matrix]

could we change idol so it is of rare rarity for pvp matches? I know that it is uncommon in the regular game, however, every other archtype defining joker is of rare status, and the idols uncommon classification makes i feel ~40% of matches idol games which just gets unfun after enough time

[deft wyvern]

I strongly agree with this

PLEASE jsut make idol a rare joker

its already a top 5 joker in the game for mp

[rugged oxide]

Wanted to mention here, as head advisor (that was a big part of the justice ban) I agree with you, ive brought it up, and its been shot down, along with other things that would balance bmp more around the mp part, but some people would rather keep the purity of the b part

Though I recognize this is mostly an aside for myself and myself only, I dont think we would be successful in banning justice if it was happening today. In fact, I can envision the exact argument that would be had about it banning now

The issue with idol is that I dont see a healthy white stake metagame where idol exists in any capacity. You start the game with the knowledge that idol might show up, and because of that building into anything else is a losing battle. Take trib for example, building into jacks is worse than kings or queens because of the fear of trib, and its a legendary

Personally, the "balatro identity" is left the exact same is a select few jokers are simply removed from the ranked pool, just like justice was

Weekly 4(?) was the inverse of montys "badlatro" created by jake was goodlatro, which was pure metagame. The day before it launched he asked me if justice should be in goodlatro, I answered that "I dont think justice in any capacity is healthy for bmp since it rewards you for retriggering cards, the thing thats already meta." And I find myself recalling that conversation whenever I see any kind of idol solution

[deft wyvern]

With the addition of a ranked rule set properly being added into the next update, I feel like it's so much easier to justify making adjustments. The core experience already is different with the hanging chad nerf and no glass card generation

So I completely agree with you

I've played like almost 250 games of ranked Balatro now. I love it! But there is a clear and obvious meta that only kinda breaks down in higher stakes, but a lot of people play white stake. I feel like it should be prioritized

And the game already loses some of its "Balatro identity" when multiplayer jokers are already an extremely strong way to get ahead

To make a healthy multiplayer pvp game that has a more diverse meta I feel like changes and removals should be encouraged lightly to be able to make other things more worthwhile

And it kinda sucks that it just isn't being considered as much anymore

Like

64% out of 243 people said they would support this

What is holding this back really?

Why even make the poll and see that it's in support if things won't be changed at all?

[elder coyote]

The polls don’t really necessitate change. They’re more to see where the community is at with things. For example, 66% of people prefer playing on white and gold. (Of course the wording is a bit different, but I hope you get my point) Should we change the system in a way that would upset the other 33%? Of course we are looking into changing rarity of jokers as balancing, but there are quite a few solid arguments against it that have been brought up. You said that the meta is stale and idol supports that. What changes if idol is made to be rare? People will still play into the same things because the strongest jokers force you to the most consistently winning strategies. Of course idol specifically will show up less, and maybe that’s something that the community wants to see. We’re looking for other outlets when it comes to changing vanilla jokers (not at all saying we’re not trying it out).

One of the main issues with balancing is that changes don’t have a space to be properly tested, and it takes a while for changes to be made. So when they are made, they have to be solid and supported.

And personally, I think the “Balatro Identity” is quite strong at the moment. Pushing back against change to maintain that and encourage more people to get into the mod is always going to happen.

[deft wyvern]

This is all fair points to make, and I'm glad it's at least being considered. Honestly I do really just wanna see idol appear less in mp Balatro mostly

[elder coyote]

He makes me want to disconnect 💀 I always ask for a restart before first pvp if he shows up, and I’ve stopped playing white stake pretty much altogether

[deft wyvern]

Yeah he kind of alone ruins white stake even though I mostly play it

I still am in support of just straight up removing it but I know that's not super ideal

[rugged oxide]

Ive found myself saying it a few times, the balatro experience is already ruined with this degree of min-maxing. The balatro experience is being able to win with your favourite joker, even if it isnt the best

Because of the hugely overpowered meta, there is simply a collection of jokers that have zero uses

[deft wyvern]

Yeah this style works amazingly well for the singleplayer game

You can with any set of jokers really

But in multiplayer it's generally always the same strategies and half the jokers are filler for the first 2 antes maybe

[rugged oxide]

I would love to try "even worse"-latro where any xmult on proc is banned and players play on different seeds, like sap, pizza suggested this and I think it could be very fun

[austere flame]

bro simply didnt watch me stunt on bean with straight flush

[opaque matrix]

hey don't hate on my eternal fib

[rugged oxide]

This did go crazy to be fair

I want more of that, not have it be so rare that its an urban legend on the server

[forest parcel]

i want level 8 full house to be the line

[forest gulch]

Joker idea (queue skip joker) or rework to the shortcut joker: uncommon 7$, you skip past every other common joker in the queue 1/2. So if the queue had: blue joker, bloodstone, green joker, buisness card, baron, supernova. A player with the queue skip would see blue joker, bloodstone, baron, supernova. It would be a unique econ joker that lets you find rarer jokers quicker but with a downside of missing jokers like mail or chad that could help you win the game. Could make it 1/3 commons if it would be too strong.

[hexed swan]

**Here are some of my more refined joker suggestions: **

Let LifeDiff = max{0; (Nemesis' lives) – (your lives)}

Boss’ discount, $4 uncommon
After defeating the Big Blind, (1 + LifeDiff) in 8 to create a D6 Tag and a Coupon Tag
-# BP/BS incompatible, multiple instances stackable, no nemesis interaction

Inheritance, $5 common
Whenever your opponent destroys a card, if you have a card of the same rank and suit, gain $5
-# BP/BS compatible, multiple instances stackable, nemesis interaction

Wild seals, $6 uncommon
Each seal behaves like all the seals in hand
-# Discarding purple seals shouldn’t matter card order (if purple seal goes out first and after that goes the other seal, the other seal should still be counted as purple for that hand)
-# Red seal works only with blue and gold (discards do not “trigger” cards)
-# All seals can behave like gold seals, all seals can behave like blue seals
-# BP/BS incompatible, multiple instances non-stackable, no nemesis interaction

Buried treasure, $6 (un)common
Your last 2*[hand size] cards have X enhancements, Y editions and Z seals Upon finishing a blind without drawing these cards, earn $(X+Y+Z) at end of round
-# Initially thought just [hand size], but often those cards will never be drawn
-# BP/BS incompatible, multiple instances stackable, no nemesis interaction

Let him cook, $8 uncommon
Scaling jokers scale twice** as fast, food jokers scale twice** as slow
-# ** - Scaling jokers’ scales are set to double the base, food jokers do not trigger every other time - global triggering, so multiple instances don’t stack
-# BP/BS incompatible, multiple instances non-stackable, no nemesis interaction

[opaque matrix]

we probably aren't making any non multiplayer specific multiplayer jokers, but if we do can we get a deFIBulator that gives steel/gold A, 2, 3, 5, and 8s 1.5x when scored?

[warped portal]

That sounds busted

[rare void]

New tarot card:

Reincarnation (Name can be changed I can't think of anything better): Switch the seal of 2 selected cards held in hand if both cards have different seals. (Example: Switch the red seal of a 7 of clubs with the blue seal of a Queen of hearts, now you can go bloodstone with sock instead of having a useless red seal 7)

[stuck seal]

tbh not even, small world ruleset makes this decently possible if players save enough money

[toxic orbit]

maybe spectral would be more balanced

lmao

but seems fun

[agile reef]

It's lowkey on the same level as death and hangman though because you require having both seals held in hand to activate it's effect and so like drawing it in spectral would often be useless and just bloat the pool slightly, and also having it held in hand becomes a necessity much like ankh often, which is kinda annoying imo

But it makes certificate even more op and reinforces face card meta so...

I'm fine without it, but also it's interesting

Might ruin the meta slightly though lmao

[rare void]

I went over this

It's like how hanged man is the worse version of immolate or how death is the worse version of cryptid. Cryptid and the seal spectrals create, this replaces, much like how death does

[rare void]

I'm always down to have more of a say in how each player does their deck fixing

Face cards are always gonna be meta

[agile reef]

That's valid to me

[agile reef]

Yeah... I just wish we didn't reinforce it 😭

Like I've had games where I've won because I've strengthed a red seal 9 to a jack or a queen due to how strongly I played the purple seals,

Like that's a valid thing to do and imo it's worthy of reward

But with this, it does take it away slightly but not that much in a bad way

[rare void]

I mean it's different from that because you can't remove a blue seal from a glass card you found in a pack without using a spectral

Like yeah you can strengthen your red seals

But purple blue and gold are another thing

You don't want your purple seals to be on glass cards for example

You want to play them, not discard them

Glass cards are a valuable resource in mp because there in no justice

Again, it's just for more options of play

More options is always good for competitive games

[agile reef]

But I'm better off just farming certificate or finding a card that has a seal that's closer to a face card and swapping it, or in the instance of glass, imma just take a random red seal and swap it if the glass already has a seal/I had the opportunity to spectral seal (trance or medium) it

[rare void]

Yeah exactly

Like it's supposed be used in tangent with other tarots (I think that's the right expression)

It's not a replacement for anything

[agile reef]

To me, it's not something I'd want to add due to how much it kinda manipulates the game despite not being too busted, it makes me end up taking every standard pack more, it makes me always take certificate, it creates a useless early game tarot (it's a very strong tarot just not early game and almost all the tarots work early game, except temperance ig, so you can make that argument that it's like temperance) so it makes that slightly annoying but not a big deal, it technically makes death and hang even more annoying to farm, but not by much, that's not a valid argument, but I don't like that lmao
And so I struggle to say that it'd work well in actual play in terms of functioning, it's so much fun, I just wouldn't want it in ranked because it's just absolutely insane meta reinforcing that maybe I wouldn't want, but idk

It's such a shame, because I love the idea, I just don't know how well it plays into the ranked setting and whether I would allow it

[rustic bone]

i think its hard to make it work as a tarot or a spectral

it would often be a dead card for both, but if its a tarot its super easy to abuse tf out of it imo

i think it works best as a spectral though

[agile reef]

Do we really want to dilute spectral pool...?

I'm just saying, it's already imperative to farm spectrals in high level gameplay, with seance and sixth sense abuse being very real with player strengthing 5s instead of important cards in order to farm for a deja vu (and extra immolate and whatnot if they can)

Do we really want to add an often dead card that just becomes broken when used? That can often just lead to a win and making it more imperative to spectral and seal farm?

[forest gulch]

I think the new misprint might be doing this affect in sandbox mode

[agile reef]

What 💀

[rustic bone]

my view is that as a spectral its a card you wanna get but you would likely only use once, maybe twice

because death >>>> anything once u get a good card to copy

[forest gulch]

Randomises the rank of cards, so you can make useless red seals less usless

I could see it as a joker that you sell to use or something if this was added

[agile reef]

Yeah but then it becomes even more of a race to just get any seal on a face card, try to force this into a red seal on a face card -> death more than your opponent, if this actually happens I might cry 😭

Genuinely, I think I would hate having this in ranked even though I love the card itself and it's design

[rustic bone]

thats every game already tho imo

most of the games where im winning, its because i deckfixed better

like im purely saying that

if this is an idea thats considered its far far better as a spectral imo for the reasons i gave

[agile reef]

I've won games where I've had somewhat worse deck fixing but better investment in econ or like tempoing the opponent instead, this does maybe introduce more tempo potential with photo diff, but I just don't like it that much when it'll mostly just go into more face card meta and even more kill off the hack route and such...

But also hack is already dead and like 8 times out of 10 you get punished for building into it somehow even though I swear that's not how the odds are supposed to be but hey if you have enough econ...

[rustic bone]

it makes sense that hack is sub par

many scoring effects target face cards or all cards

im pretty sure theres like no xmult jokers that specifically work on low rank cards so its just often a dead card or a card that hurts u long run if u build for it without good support already

[forest gulch]

Like littary lost to this because my opponent put red seal on a king with hack and ancient

and got sock and photo

[rare void]

Yeah but then what's the point of having deja vu talisman trance and medium

[rustic bone]

alternative options

im playing devils advocate heavy here btw

• u need the seals already to be able to use this

[rare void]

Yeah so maybe it's a tarot than only apears once you have 2 or more seals in your deck? Like lucky cat or golden ticket

Except for a tarot card

[rustic bone]

(as an advisor, i will say that if any tarot or spectral was to be added, they should be damn near perfectly designed and be something that'd fit near perfectly in vanilla)

[rare void]

Yeah it's alright I like to debate on new ideas

[rustic bone]

for this idea that could be an option

[rare void]

Honestly I thought of this idea while playing normal balatro

But the main reason for it being added to multiplayer was because justice is banned

And you can't just make any red seal a glass card

[rare void]

And this

Certificate already has a downside of bloating your deck, I think something to prevent that somewhat might be balanced

Like yeah there are jokers with downsides and there are tools in the game to balance those downsides

[rare void]

This would also make it not appear early game

And prevent you from getting actually useful tarots early

[agile reef]

Certificate is literally still one of the best jokers, even just holding it and bloating your deck adds way more value despite it because of purple seals especially, gold seals giving money to basically counteract it and being retriggerable, blue seals are just nice but whatever, and then red seals don't even need to be explained here

We are NOT worried about buffing certificate

Just me personally, a tarot with an unlock doesn't sound very base gamey, but ofc counters what I said before, which is valid

Idk maybe see what advisors say and maybe they'll be able to give a clear expression on what can be done with it

[rare void]

Yeah this is true, an unlock tarot is not vanilla by any means but we aren't necessarily playing vanilla

Like I get that it doesn't feel vanilla 100% but then there would be many problems in practice

Like the entirety of multiplayer is mostly not vanilla (obviously) so I don't see a reason to not tweak a tarot in a non vanilla way to make it accesible to multiplayer the mod.

The card is in an in-between state of spectral and tarot

New consumable type for multiplayer?

"Use this card to see one random joker of your opponent"

Or something

[agile reef]

This I don't think is as useful as people make it out to be... like often you'll see something you already have or you can assume they have something by deduction anyway knowing what you've seen and can occasionally lead to bad situations of like randomly knowing to build face cards early than you would seeing an opponent who's ahead get a sock after pivoting into hack initially or something, why exactly are we damning someone for being ahead on econ???

[agile reef]

But yeah, I get your reasoning on stuff here, this is cool, idk how well it fits, and then also idk what'll happen with potential new tarots and unlockable tarots, I like discussing stuff but we need more people to pitch in for a more helpful discussion imo

[rare void]

Yeah I'd like to see what the advisors think of this as a whole

[forest parcel]

counterargument, you DO want your purple seals to be on glass cards because you want to COPY them.

Purple glass / purple gold are 2 of my favorite combos

[rare void]

Ok yeah you're right

But how about blue or gold glass

You don't wanna have too much blue

Diminishing returns and whatever

[forest parcel]

blue glass not good

[rare void]

I was playing a ranked game yesterday where I could only copy a blue seal king for my baron even though I had a red seal jack but did not find any strengths

[forest parcel]

gold seal glass is fine because gold seal is good

[rare void]

Yeah but you're gonna be playing it so much you might break it

[forest parcel]

no u arent

you just get a little back when you do have to play it

Like dont pop the talisman on your glass

over a random card

[rare void]

Orange deck

[forest parcel]

Or maybe do tbh

[rare void]

Standard packs

[forest parcel]

A gold seal glass card is a good card.

Not as good as red or purple.

[rare void]

I'd rather have golden ticket

[forest parcel]

yes.

me too dawg

[rare void]

Money without risking glass

[rare void]

Also I would have had to find 2 strengths and a devil instead of 1 tarot

Deckfixing good

[rare void]

so, thoughts on the card?

[forest parcel]

glass is good and gold seal is good with it because it rewards retriggering which you already want with glass

[forest parcel]

Ok update glass gold seal is INCREDIBLY POWERFUL

[rare void]

But you know what's even more powerful?

Red seal glass

[quartz steppe]

Are PvP tags still on the table?
https://discord.com/channels/1226193436521267223/1354554364844441730
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z82_NU-gyovGLT8QVuOnF1d5zlmAUcYBgg2QQrNtUA0/edit?usp=drivesdk

Or this is a no-go?

[forest gulch]

sticker idea, pvp sticker, only works in pvps, don't know how it could be added tho

[sour geode]

uncommon/rare joker idea : The Clock - After a hand is played, retriggers all scoring Joker effects. A "scoring Joker effect" is anything that triggers after played and held in hand cards, with the exception of Observatory.

It is meant to offer a viable alternative to baron mime and idol retriggers in white stake.

Before you ask, it does retrigger to-do list, vagabond and baseball card, and is blueprintable. It does not retrigger faceless (that's why i added "after hand is played")

Might be too strong as an uncommon but all retriggers are uncommon so 🤷‍♀️

[sour geode]

more interactions : It retriggers séance, but not sixth sense (?) - you can't destroy the card twice ! I'm not sure if it should make trousers/green joker/obelisk scale twice as fast (on top of retriggering their effects), similarly to how hack makes wee scale twice as fast, since these jokers' scaling condition is checked after a hand is played.

[vital cove]

Thoughts on making a deck that gives players a random rare joker, and players can spend an increasing amount of money to reroll it?
Ie. 5 dollars for the first reroll -> 10 etc etc

[vital cove]

I kinda like it, seems as strong as retriggers and would be a nice alternative

[rugged oxide]

Welcome back old lets go gambling

[vital cove]

wait is that actually how it worked

[rugged oxide]

Like way worse

[vital cove]

LOL

idk the deck idea just seems fun

it seems balanced since you just make the jokers in a queue

[rare void]

Bumping the idea again cause I still think this is sick as hell

No bias ong

[vital cove]

I think it should be a spectral prob

Too radical for a tarot I feel

[rare void]

I already gave some arguments as to why it should be a tarot and not a spectral

https://tenor.com/view/timmy-no-candy-gif-5909516713687615776

[vital cove]

Which are?

Or did I miss them

Or I already have

I’m stupid don’t mind me

[rare void]

Let me write them all ig

[vital cove]

Nah I’m reading