#The problem with the current unofficial value list

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

deft elbow
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Im just expressing my opinion about this one, so don't be rash and ban me because I "hurt your feelings" or something like that. Im probably talking for 70%-80% of the traders in this game.
The current value list, the one created by randoms, is not reliable and isn't an official value list that people should use. What makes these people make up their own values and not the developers of this game who are much more experienced and know what they're doing?
Not just that, but the values are way way WAY off for what they are supposed to be or should be.

A prime example is Diavolo; Released on update 1.5, the first ever vanguard , and one of the highest value units (22k Value in the current value list).
What makes you decide that his value is gonna be a liver and a leg? Diavolo is like EVERY other banner vanguard, but just a little rarer. He's trash when it comes to dps, so if he got bad dps, why is Gogeta not worth 22k? "B- B- BUT DIAVOLO DIDN'T HAVE A PITY AND THE CURRENCY WAS HARD TO GET- ", THAT doesn't mean he has to be THIS overpriced.

Another example is Ainz; Released on update 9.5, one of the best units in the game for dps and utility.
After he became tradeable, his value was 800 (decided by the current value list). At the time he was sold like water. People made their trades and sold him asap. By the time, Kaguya had a value of 1300 and was highly wanted by everyone. People would have traded 2 Ainz for a Kaguya. And the trades were made. On February 28, Kaguya's value went down to 950, while Ainz's value got up to 1000.
The demand for Ainz became crazy while Kaguyas became lower, and take a guess who decided that, you got that right, the current value list. What was the thought process of randomly making Ainz have better value than Kaguya? Kaguya is much rarer than Ainz. People lost so much value due to this. Same with Escanor, what makes you decide Escanor is better than Kaguya in value? Even though Kaguya is much rarer than Escanor? And I get that he's one of the best dps in the game due to memorias, but still. Are yall making your values by damage or by rarity?!
What are these last minute changes?

The problems with the current value list:

  1. It's not reliable, due to values being really bad (im not the only one who agrees on this)
  2. It's unofficial and wasn't made by the AV devs.
  3. It updates every 3 blood moons and we gotta gamble with our trades and HOPE that the units people traded will keep their values, which will result in a good trade for yourself' and not trade 3 ainz for 3 kaguyas and find out a couple days later that it's a massive lose.
  4. Overpricing units and making absurd decisions about what the value of a unit should be.

Due to these problems, traders are having a difficulty upgrading their inventory and getting good/fair trades. Most of the time people lose tons of values because of the stupid value decisions, OR people ask for too much for something, which results in a difficulty of getting what you want.

There's 2 fixes to this:

  1. AV devs should create their own value list
  2. The people who run the current value list should lock the hell in. Could probably make polls in their discord server (if they even have one) to see the opinion of others about what the value of a unit/bundle/anything tradeable should be.
higuruma-jjk.gif
primal stoneBOT
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Please ensure that your suggestion follows the Suggestion Rules in #1351363086409531392,

light mist
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a offical value list is not being made
also yea diavolo is worth a kidney, hes rare with a cool cosmetic, he has both of the requirements for value in trading

deft elbow
# deft elbow Im just expressing my opinion about this one, so don't be rash and ban me becaus...

TL;DR

  • The current value list is unofficial, unreliable, and inconsistent.
  • Sudden value changes (Diavolo, Ainz, Kaguya, Escanor) cause traders to lose value.
  • There’s no transparency on how values are decided (damage vs rarity vs demand).
  • Traders are forced to gamble on trades due to unstable updates.
  • Either the AV devs should create an official value list, or the current managers
  • should improve transparency and involve the community.
frosty flower
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gl getting that diavolo buddy 😂 😂 😂 🤣 ✌️

deft elbow
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no one would

frosty flower
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just trade buddy

deft elbow
frosty flower
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by trading even longer

deft elbow
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but whatever, the point is that the current value list is bad

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yeah, that's all

light mist
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yea but officially av aint gonna do anything about them
its unofficial value lists

trim sigil
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there is nothing wrong with the 2 points, is just you not wanting to deal with common trading

alpine hedge
# deft elbow __**TL;DR**__ - The current value list is unofficial, unreliable, and inconsiste...

The current value list almost everyone uses in this community updates every 3 days or less, and it's very accurate since they use proofs to determine if this unit is worth the hype or if it's getting similar offers due to done trades.

Diavolo's value is nowhere being "maiinupluadted" if that's what you thought. The reason for the changes done is because more and more diavolo are no longer in the circ or the fact every single one of them wants OP offers for theirs, to correct this, they haven't changed diavolo's value in ages. It was done because they were using kaguya as the main value for everything now that Ainz crashed down, we moved to ainz.

warm musk
alpine hedge
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Escanor, and Ainz are above Kaguya due to having better demand, and hyped? Kaguya is just outdated now, and nobody is looking for her, which is why they're above her.

warm musk
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there are not that many

trim sigil
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people are really suprised that a rare unit have a high value and their owners want overprices? must be shocking

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and the fact u want to reduce his value for dps is funny 😂

alpine hedge
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Having a official value list makes no difference because it will mostly likely be ran by the same people who currently works for the most popular value list or take suggestions FROM them.

deft elbow
warm musk
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the trading list has issues but diavolo is not gonna move
also kaygra is a fraud

alpine hedge
deft elbow
alpine hedge
deft elbow
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Yeah I agree that he has to have a lot of value, but not THAT much

deft elbow
alpine hedge
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You've never been greedy in your life before?

deft elbow
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they see a unit with a lot of value --> ask for even more value

alpine hedge
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Is there a reason why you don't agree with diavolo being 22k value?

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And what about other rare units? Not just diavolo alone

light mist
warm musk
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or just get lucky like me and find people who dont care about values

image.png
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even asked him if he wanted more

alpine hedge
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Do you have proof that Diavolo is not worth 22k? This unofficial value list you're talking about has a channel where you can ask for adjustments on this xx unit if you don't agree with the current value it is set on. They will listen to all of the suggestions as long as you have proof to back them up.

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(Completed trades)

deft elbow
light mist
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what people trade for him is what his value is

warm musk
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also once again, only 5k people were playing during his update at some times, there are way more gogetas than diavolos

light mist
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just getting a miku skin was hard enough
diavolo was near impossible

alpine hedge
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The more you read his original statement, the more you can see he clearly does not understand how trading works. You can't just determine this unit is worth a lot if it's meta or not.

People don't trade or overpay for the things they want if this unit is either meta or not, they trade because of what the unit is really known for or how special the unit is.

warm musk
deft elbow
light mist
warm musk
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NOBODY got seiko

deft elbow
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@alpine hedge be fr now, you're saying that diavolo's value is fair because you have him or because you agree he's that rare?

alpine hedge
deft elbow
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fine, I wont argue no further.

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But still, a lot of people think this value list is bad due to their own reason, and some of them are similar to mine (as I mentioned in the suggestion).

misty rover
marsh rover
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i think it’s actually good to have a concrete value list everyone will follow, not just blindly trading random bullshit not knowing if it was L, me personally love trading simulator game (specially GPO) but without official tierlist im not risking it

deft elbow
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which is kinda bad imo

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making other rare unit's value lower just to make us suffer to upgrade our stuff

misty rover
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Lowk watch in then next few updates a random old unob shiny unit will skyrocket in value

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I feel it

warm musk
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diogo 😔

alpine hedge
warm musk
deft elbow
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ok

burnt gulch
# deft elbow Im just expressing my opinion about this one, so don't be rash and ban me becaus...

Overpricing/market manipulation will always exist, even in a offical capacity esp since the devs did mentioned they wouldnt do it themselves and instead pay someone who actually knows about that and just actually endorse it

Diavalo is because hes cool, a major thing for trading is what the precieved value is, aka what people like more and they love him, he was also out during a bad time in the game when currency was harder to get and with no pity hence alot less of him exist.

Rarity, usability, and how people view a unit will always influence decisions. Hence why I feel it's dumb to even use a trading list, devs seem to feel thr same way, at least enough that they dont risk it.

Also the long updating times Is because they look at what people trade iirc. Plus most people on that list have other duties to fulfill

Fix 1 isnt happening

Fix 2 isnt something that should be discussed here but alright, nor do I think it'd happen

burnt gulch
burnt gulch
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But yea p sure i covered all.major points in my msg

wraith blade
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As an avid trader it seems your problem comes from understanding inherit value and marketing rather then the tierlist themselves. Because what you have to understand is that Vanguard Values is the most "official" Anime Vanguards is going to get to an "Official" tierlist. Even if the Devs stepped in to make an "official" tierlist it would update even LESS then the current tierlist that we have which is one of the problems you've mentioned.

Not only would an official tierlist cause many more issues because imagine having to vote on EVERY value change from the Shiny Broly all the way down to Nonshiny Newsman. That would take not only AGES to do but people will have their own ideals on what something should be worth.

For example lets say a poll was made for Shiny Kaguya's value my then the three problems with the voting system would be:

  1. What if you dont agree with said options?
  2. How are said options picked?
  3. How do you avoid Market Manipulation?

To explain 3 even further how would you avoid market manipulation? What if a group of people got together and just kept voting to increase the value WELL past what it was worth? Not only would it be easier but it would also break the "Community" Rules system that you've suggested with polls.

and for 1 and 2 How would you weed out people purposefully joking around with values? What if I just kept voting that Kaguya stay the same even though she is worth more then what the said current value was? What would happen then?

I think its best that Devs all together stay out of it because as someone who's survived plenty of "Official" tierlist it will NEVER go the way you want because it will either update WAY LESS or NOBODY will agree with the values. I'd rather stick with unofficial tierlist and disagree with three or four values then let devs pick out the values and disagree with the whole list.

To also further answer this values are picked based on Demand, Cosmetic, Rarity, Usability, and Popularity.

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No matter how you slice it you're better off just submitting post asking for value changes with proof rather then trying to complain the official av server and hoping it works out

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Because at the end of the day thats all traders care about PROOF. If you can PROVE something goes for 10K points then people will trade you 10K for said item. Thats why things rise and fall

eager basalt
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also Diavolo has a one of a kind ability

edgy rose
warm musk
deft elbow
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And I didn't see this outcome for the polls and manipulating values, so it's better off just letting these guys handle the values.

wraith blade
wraith blade
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I’m trying to push for changes so it becomes less easy to be manipulated but with things like that it’ll take time.

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For the most part it’s best just to leave it to professions but if anything try to get involved in the community yourself and make a change best way to get the ball rolling to better the trade community as a whole

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If you don’t like something no reason to take it lying down id argue