Unit Exclusive Familiars

[open gust]

they just do eza

completely rework the unit

[fading pine]

Thats why we gonna have gojo and sukuna reworked in terms of passives but as a secondary thing for an update

Because it wont call as much attention

Other than putting heian sukuna's face straight in the thumbnail

[rancid idol]

they do NOT need passive reworks

they need a whole new evolution

[fading pine]

Which wont happen unless you want the game taken down

[rancid idol]

that wont happen

[vernal otter]

They are already ingame

Adding an evo wont do anything

[fading pine]

Did you read what they tell you above

[vernal otter]

Finally someone smart?

[fading pine]

.

[rancid idol]

people talk about hxh and jjk being more serious about their copyright but ALS just had a HxH update

[vernal otter]

How about we think with our own heads instead

[vernal otter]

Literally lmfao

[rancid idol]

they dont care about roblox games

[hardy scaffold]

av devs were told specifically they can't do hxh and supposedly jjk too

[vernal otter]

Im saying

[rancid idol]

by?

when?

[vernal otter]

Exactly bro

[hardy scaffold]

viz according to the people i've asked here
and nether said adding stuff from the jjk manga would most likely get av sued so 🤷

[rancid idol]

i only see people saying this stuff in the suggestion channel but the devs are literally asking us "hey, you guys want sukuna and gojo to be brought back to meta?" which implies a second evolution

[vernal otter]

Oh yeah viz noticed a game that had 20k ccu for a month before this update but didnt notice ASTD X or ALS

[hardy scaffold]

it more likely implies (with the context we've been given) that they're getting some form or rework or buff

[vernal otter]

Stop being so gullible

[hardy scaffold]

according to nether and other people i've asked its because av peaked 400k players during jjk

[vernal otter]

Av peaked 150k on the jjk upd

[hardy scaffold]

🤷

[rancid idol]

blox fruits peaked over 1m and nothings happened to them for 5+ years

[vernal otter]

Yeah because these studios dont care about roblox

it has been proven for over 6 years

[hardy scaffold]

they dont have luffy in their game

[rancid idol]

the only exception has been gamefam and pokemon

[buoyant jay]

They actually redesigned everything

Yknow, now the fruits look... different

[hardy scaffold]

but hey

thats just a theory

an av theory

[rancid idol]

i still would rather have vanguard evolutions then just passive and stat changes

[hardy scaffold]

same the thing is they probably can't

or would you want a yujikuna vanguard

[rancid idol]

i want a meguna vanguard

[hardy scaffold]

nether said they'd 100% get sued if they did this

[rancid idol]

im still having a hard time believing this

if jjk copyright was an issue why would they imply a sukuna rework several times months after the update

like im talking 3-4 months after

[hardy scaffold]

because they were probably approached by viz at that time

we don't know its just speculation

and our options are approached by anime studio or lazy

which i dont think they'd be lazy for an update people have been hyped about for months while developing it and ultimately having to cancel

[ripe lance]

It implies a passive/stat rework more than anything, what the fuck would gojo even evo into 😭

Also side note but the wording they're using is "viability" I wouldnt get my hopes up about them becoming top tier all of a sudden.

[vernal otter]

its simple

there is no copyright

there has never been copyright for jjk

[ripe lance]

Yeah they just randomly canceled plans for a planned update on a whim

[vernal otter]

Yeah

pretty much

no joke

[vernal otter]

we've already went over this bro

give me one reason why you think there is copyright

except devs saying "trust me bro"

[ripe lance]

Should I trust you instead or what

🤔

[green turtle]

Chat don’t give into the ragebait

[hardy scaffold]

nether i will continue to use you as leverage for my arguments
please feed me more info

[green turtle]

Info on what

I’ve fed you all that I can

[hardy scaffold]

anything you get word of

[green turtle]

Bet bet

Word is that we’re doing Sukuna double evo and then getting taken down a week later

[vernal otter]

"Someone told the devs they cant add jjk units even though they have jjk units but that someone doesnt care for that tho"

[hardy scaffold]

how people feel after ignoring previous points in an argument and continue to rant about something that's been addressed already

[green turtle]

I mean… That isn’t really that far fetched an idea

Either way, there’s still literally no reason why they wouldn’t do something they were already very keen on doing that would’ve brought a lot of popularity in

[feral tundra]

anime last stand
anime vanguards

this is the same name

right

[open gust]

how about

they just do the update

and Andrej pays for the licensing

[vernal otter]

🔥

type shi

[hardy scaffold]

yeah you got us bro 💯

goodness escanor with kaguya + hibana support is insane

escanor gets 30m DIR with all three of them

nukeless and ultimateless

with ultimate he can do 40m damage to a boss in his range with lava dimension and hibana support

[rancid idol]

hibana?

[hardy scaffold]

Hebano (Climatis)

[open gust]

throw rengoku or quetzacoatl in that team

or run judar

[green turtle]

Hibana and Escanor hits some crazy burn dps

[hardy scaffold]

i'll run judar and quetz and do a rerun

though it isnt realistic since you're not gonna have them all on a team
i think a decent realistic team would be
escanor, kaguya, judar, hibana and farms

[open gust]

id swap judar for quetzacoatl

tbh

[hardy scaffold]

fair enough quetz should do more realistically

[open gust]

yeah

judar only buffs dot

quetz buffs dmg

[hardy scaffold]

alright rerunning with all of escanors supports

dude i didnt even use fire dimension or ultimate

ok let me try a fairer test with both ultimate, dimensions and escanor nuke

okay fully stacked fire dimension, ultimate and escanor nuke
here goes nothing

[wintry parcel]

What are you testing

[hardy scaffold]

escanor's highest possible damage in range

[wintry parcel]

Ah ok

I still need to get monarch on him

[hardy scaffold]

i think this speaks for itself

[wintry parcel]

Holy

[open gust]

hes a little strong

[wintry parcel]

He can prob solo everything

[open gust]

nah

[wintry parcel]

He sucks against shields tho

[hardy scaffold]

i'm using like 50 buffers this is far frrom solo

[open gust]

damage wise yeah probably

[wintry parcel]

So I think that’s a big downside

[open gust]

but in actuality he doesnt solo everything

[wintry parcel]

He solos most stuff

Except like the super hard content

Like gg ex

[hardy scaffold]

honestly most of his damage comes from the insane burn restacking on hibana

[wintry parcel]

Time to evo her ig

[hardy scaffold]

get marksman

[wintry parcel]

I’ll do it when I get monarch

[hardy scaffold]

wait

i havent even tested it with baiken and katakuri slowing stunning and repulsing

[wintry parcel]

Peak

Hopefully they keep going with the good updates

And not go down the aa route

With keep going with portal slop

[hardy scaffold]

no way bro

they're killing her

yeah bambi at 117m hp is dying

one baiken, one katakuri, 3 hibanas and kaguya (judar didn't even get to fill his bar 💀 and rengoku barely did anything) can do over 100 million damage in escanor's range

you can fit hibana kaguya and escanor on your team with like haruka/orihime or something
and have a friend get baiken and katakuri

or just split the unit between you 2 it doesnt really matter

deleted judar and rengoku btw

[rancid idol]

I NEED monarch

i pulled him this morning

and i have the option to buy the 400 rerolls from the portals shop and give it to him or gogeta

at least with gogeta ill get monarch guaranteed

but him idk

[hardy scaffold]

gogeta sucks just drop everything on escanor

[open gust]

yeahh

the birbs are free

[wicked island]

Lowk this should be a thing for old units

Like how db legends does plat equips and shit

[hardy scaffold]

that was what the suggestion was based off of 😌

[hardy scaffold]

@mortal umbra are you 1970

[flint flame]

99% sure he is i just can’t prove it…

[hardy scaffold]

everyone in suggestions is a 1970 alt

[flint flame]

Nah Mushy is genuinely an exact copy

[flint flame]

Yeah literally this bro

1970 was genuinely the strongest ragebaiter in history

[hardy scaffold]

😭 one day we'll be able to prove it..

[flint flame]

Had me tweaking every time i talked to him in a thread

[green turtle]

i miss 1970

peak entertainment value

[hardy scaffold]

get mods to unban him

[rustic jacinth]

dbl mentioned 🥹

bump

[hardy scaffold]

anyone know whats going on in stage rn#

icba to check

[hardy scaffold]

so

what happened

(in stage)

HOW ARE THEY GONNA TALK ABOUT EZAS BUT NOT THIS

GRRRRRR

@feral tundra I HATE YOU

[feral tundra]

haha

[hardy scaffold]

valk said he's adding this trust#

platinum equips over ezas

my thoughts on the poll
tick = should be a contender
x = shouldn't be on there either cause they're not relevant enough/would fit better elsewhere
? = dunno who they are or extreme confusion as to why they're there

can anyone who's actually watched date a live tell me who she is

[open gust]

if theyre on there

they are relevant enough

thats what the votes were for

[hardy scaffold]

"unnamed marine"

where did WOU go as well

[open gust]

its an anniversary unit

the community votes for who they want

[hardy scaffold]

notice how 7/10 of them are below or at 2%

should've just gone to top 3

[open gust]

the votes got reset..

[hardy scaffold]

yeah i just realised
they're still not as popular

[open gust]

this was it before

and that doesnt change anything

the community gets to pick

[hardy scaffold]

half of rukia votes came from stage 😭

[open gust]

so if the character made it into spotlight and was literally top 10

[hardy scaffold]

also you're not getting the point

[open gust]

outside of dmca or unit that are already planned

then they are relevant enough

😭

[hardy scaffold]

if 7/10 of them are 5% and the rest are over 30% then which ones are more likely to be picked

[open gust]

???

[hardy scaffold]

its the same logic with having tengen in the old unit buff poll

nobody wants tengen

[open gust]

ok

but people chose who the contenders are

[vagrant perch]

https://tenor.com/view/hxh-gif-1134129551145375709

[open gust]

how are they irrelevant

[hardy scaffold]

compared to rukia, dio oh and kurumi they are.

[open gust]

💀

[hardy scaffold]

or are you trying to say 2% is the same as over 20% i dont get it

[open gust]

whatever u say bro

[hardy scaffold]

what are you trying to say

[open gust]

they are all relevant

because they were the top 10 most voted choices

in spotlight

simple

[hardy scaffold]

20% and 2% are the same relevancy

sure.

[open gust]

ok

[hardy scaffold]

yeah the top 10 are more relevant than the thousand other units that got suggested
dio oh, kurumi and rukia are more relevant compared to the rest of the top 10

is it that hard to understand

1000>100>10

[sour rain]

add wou

[open gust]

💀

u got it bro

idc enough

[hardy scaffold]

otter i just explained my definition of relevancy

if you can't decipher what i mean then you're hopeless

[open gust]

.

u said the other characters are relevant enough to be on the poll

[hardy scaffold]

yeah, i said it shouldn't be top 10 it should be top 3

because of that fact

[open gust]

ok

js stop pinging me

_<

[hardy scaffold]

now that we've seen the actual popularity, move it to top 3

???

is that so difficult to comprehend

[open gust]

💀

make a final vote for the final vote

ok

[worldly forum]

Just for dio oh to sweep anyways

[hardy scaffold]

??? it makes plenty sense instead of having the bottomfeeders of the vote get 0 for the rest

or are you trying to say that theres a chance wally west comes back from fucking 2% to win the vote??

i dont get it whatsoever

[open gust]

it doesnt matter bro

they were relevant enough to be top 10

so why leave them out

[hardy scaffold]

because they're not gonna win no matter what

[open gust]

u didnt know that till after the vote was made

[hardy scaffold]

its the same logic they used to cut it down to 10 they should use to cut it down to 3

[open gust]

😭

so basically make a final vote for the final vote...

[hardy scaffold]

i just said i didn't

[hardy scaffold]

yeah

[open gust]

pointless

😭

dio wins anyways

let it go

https://tenor.com/view/heaven-dio-gif-10755529

[hardy scaffold]

focuses the rest of the votes on the 3 that actually have a chance of winning instead of feeding the 2%s like an extra 50 votes by the end

why is everyone so pissed about dio being added anyway

why on earth does something like #1404114354626101378

exist

at all

[mortal umbra]

What’s stopping them from creating excuses?

[open gust]

bro

[mortal umbra]

They removed wonder of u when he’s the second most picked character

[open gust]

IDGAF

they literally said why

IN STAGE

LEAVE ME ALONE

[mortal umbra]

And what was the reason?

[open gust]

https://tenor.com/view/vince-carter-emotional-vince-carter-nba-coach-crying-nba-coach-hands-out-nba-coach-waving-hands-gif-13283660107289129739

[mortal umbra]

Legal rights?

[open gust]

"we removed anything that was dmca or we already had planned"

[hardy scaffold]

already had planned

no way

wou is planned!!

@wet perch you were typing

continue

[wet perch]

"Bro talking to his toxic ex. " thats what i wanted to write to otter

Did they say anything important? I legit couldnt even Listen to half the stuff they talked about because some mf opened a stream

And crashed my Phone on repeat

[vernal otter]

@open gust

[open gust]

what

[vernal otter]

About that jjk copyright

Astdx just added toji

[open gust]

bro

idc

💀

they said it on stage

its dmca

leave me alone bro

[vernal otter]

They have no clue what they are talking about

[open gust]

ok

how is that my problem

[vernal otter]

LMAOO

Im sorry

[hardy scaffold]

high-key I think rukia should be the next winter banner vanguard instead of anni

[hardy scaffold]

but the next two banner vanguards are a mystery

since it's clear we're not getting a fire force update for whatever reason

maybe shinra as the next one for summer?

[lost crater]

love this idea

[hardy scaffold]

Ty ^^

[fossil reef]

It's a solid way to bring back older units into meta, but honestly its just so much work that it wouldn't be worth it for anyone.

There are 2 outcomes of this:
1: Old units are now the best units in the game and nobody will use new units anymore, thus leading to an even bigger scaling problem and having old units who got unique familiars fade into obscurity once again by newer units that can use birb and other familiars.
2: Old units still arent the best units and thus nobody would use them unless they had monarch on them and not a stronger unit for some reason.

[wicked island]

Wat

U know familiars can basically give passives right

[fossil reef]

I do, doesn't matter when we are talking about scaling though.

A new unit that has 10% lower dps but can use any familiar is better than an old unit that cannot equip a familiar other than their unique one and still be usable.

(Since yknow, birb adds a lot more than 10% dps)

Not to mention ro jer for regen enemies

[wicked island]

Ur just assuming things like

You dont know how this would be added

So why are you making this example

[fossil reef]

Since thats the only ways it can go? Either they are too strong or too weak, there is no in between.

[wicked island]

Because you said so ig??

Ur literally just assuming how it would be added

[fossil reef]

Because thats just how balancing works? If its too weak then people won't use it unless like I stated before, they had monarch on old units that got unique familiars and for some reason didnt have newer units with monarch. If its too strong then people won't obtain the new units since the old units are better.

There is realisitcally no way to properly balance the unique familiars since we just have so many very useful familiars now.

[wicked island]

So many

[fossil reef]

namely birb and ro jer

[wicked island]

Like birb

And

No one uses rojer they just bring a bleed

[fossil reef]

ok then using birb as an example, would these unique familiars turn an old unit equal to a new unit with a god birb?

cuz that sounds overly broken to me

[wicked island]

Thats up to the devs dawg

[fossil reef]

the devs arent omnipotent creatures dude

[wicked island]

Ur just making shit up and using it as an argument

[fossil reef]

they are human just like us

[wicked island]

im being ragebaited

[fossil reef]

there is no reasonable way to balance this without either a: causing community backlash cuz they are too weak or b: causing community backlash cuz they are too strong

whats the reason in obtaining the newest cool unit when it gets outdone in every way by a super old unit that just got a unique familiar

and would these unique familiars be constantly buffed to keep up with meta? or would they eventually just rot like the units they are meant for?

leaving it all to the devs is simply just stating: "i have no clue what im talking about but i want this added in the exact way im thinking of so devs add it in"

without thinking of possible repercussions along with you getting angry that they werent added in the way you wished

its better to avoid unique familiars in their entirety rather than deal with all the potential problems and associated headaches with them

[wicked island]

Who are you talking to

[fossil reef]

your name doesnt fit you

[wicked island]

Skimming through this

The only reason you dont think its a good idea

Is because of a what if

And not an actual valid reason

[fossil reef]

its not a what if

its a matter of when

if you cant see that then you need to think about it more

[wicked island]

Also

What does this even mean

[fossil reef]

there are more variables than just "buff unit with unique familiar!!!!!"

[wicked island]

Do you think the community codes the game

[fossil reef]

when did i ever state that?

[wicked island]

Do you think the community decides how weak and strong something should be before it gets added

[fossil reef]

you are supposed to EXPLAIN your ideas rather than just give broad wants, so the devs have a better idea of what the community actually wants rather than a broad idea of what the community wants

[wicked island]

Because why else would u say that

[fossil reef]

partially, absolutely

you think the testers arent part of the community?

[hardy scaffold]

what did I walk in on

[wicked island]

Yeah the community designed the aot units

[wicked island]

Mindless yappin

[fossil reef]

i was explaining on how it was completely unrealistic to add unique familiars and this dunderhead isnt understanding at all

[mortal umbra]

He has a point, a familiar design to give this xx unit some new passives just seems lazy work for the developers to do

[fossil reef]

namely this segment ^

[hardy scaffold]

The entire deal with this is that it's meant to be more optimal for the unit than birb
You don't see meter units with birb on them, do you?

[mortal umbra]

for dante I do

[hardy scaffold]

💀

[wicked island]

Depends

On the meter

[mortal umbra]

lfelt? you should use birb

[hardy scaffold]

Because he's crit, the exception

[mortal umbra]

sol also use birb

[wicked island]

Ehhhh

[mortal umbra]

same with gear boy

[fossil reef]

that is quite literally the only scenario in which a unit would not have birb on it, and since the actual familiars are RNG dependant, how would these unique familiars scale according to them?

[wicked island]

Ah nah

[hardy scaffold]

They don't last time I checked

[mortal umbra]

They do

[wicked island]

Black spirit gear boy means u constantly have meat and the other active on

Without having to micro manage 4 units

[fossil reef]

would unique familiars be rng dependant? that means they would be able to be corrupted, which would lead to them being in the meta for way longer than intended

[wicked island]

Okay

[wicked island]

Is this a bad thing

[hardy scaffold]

Have the important stuff be full value while the less important stuff can get randomised
Oh boy would you look at that it's basically platinum equips from DBL which was what this was based off of!!

[mortal umbra]

stop saying meter units are bad

[fossil reef]

absolutely

[mortal umbra]

they are not bad

[wicked island]

What

[hardy scaffold]

Who said ts

[wicked island]

💔

[hardy scaffold]

did rebel

[fossil reef]

yea idk who said that either

[wicked island]

A unit being meta for a long time is a bad thing

Wtf

[fossil reef]

a non vanguard or hard to obtain unit? yea

[wicked island]

What

???

[hardy scaffold]

what

[fossil reef]

the only unit who i'd consider "has been meta for a long time" is yhwach

[wicked island]

What type of shit is this

[fossil reef]

and hes just busted as hell

[mortal umbra]

Familars shouldn't be the main method to give new passives for the xx unit, sloppy work if that's the case, not even als would dare to do this

[hardy scaffold]

did you read what this is based off of at all

[wicked island]

Do you want dbl zenkais instead

[fossil reef]

familiars COULD be the way, but not the only way, unique familiars should be repurposed into some sort of "addition" not "replacement" for current familiars

[hardy scaffold]

They just want plain stat buffs

[wicked island]

No they didnt

[mortal umbra]

the headline should be enough

[wicked island]

So we didnt read

[hardy scaffold]

Read

I beg of you

[fossil reef]

yea i dont want u agreeing with me if u havent read the suggestion imma be so fr

thats a bad look

[hardy scaffold]

😭

[fossil reef]

the concept isnt bad, the implementation of the concept is

[hardy scaffold]

this guy is like the best suggestions ragebaiter since 1970 pay no mind to him

[fossil reef]

bringing old units back is nice but not in the form of familiars

[wicked island]

Shit isnt even implemented yet what

[hardy scaffold]

So you disagree with the entire system of plat equips in dbl

what do you have against them may I ask

[fossil reef]

implementation as in the form the concept took, the concept being: bring old units back to meta tier, with the implementation being familiars

[fossil reef]

i have no clue what that is

[hardy scaffold]

Biggest dragon ball mobile game

[wicked island]

2nd

[fossil reef]

people still play mobile games?

[hardy scaffold]

Ad hominem

[wicked island]

This is a glorified mobile game lets be fr

[hardy scaffold]

Is dokkan still the biggest?

[wicked island]

Yes

By far

[hardy scaffold]

Oh lol

[hardy scaffold]

Roblox can be played on mobile I don't get your point

you're trying to equate mobile=bad

[fossil reef]

the point is its not exclusively mobile, nobody would call roblox a mobile game

[fossil reef]

thats exactly what im saying

[hardy scaffold]

You can play DBL and dokkan on pc anyway

[fossil reef]

exclusively mobile games ARE bad

[hardy scaffold]

Idiot

[wicked island]

Rebel ur playing an atd

[hardy scaffold]

Actual dimwit

[wicked island]

You cannot be saying this

[hardy scaffold]

Troglodyte

[fossil reef]

cant fault a man for saying slop is slop

[hardy scaffold]

Foul smelling orc

[wicked island]

You are playing an atd

On roblox

[fossil reef]

and you guys play mobile games 💀

[hardy scaffold]

Ad hominem

[fossil reef]

ALONG with playing ATDs on roblox

[wicked island]

These are the same level

[fossil reef]

you guys are twice as far in the negative here

[hardy scaffold]

Notice how you're the only person that has disagreed with this so far

[wicked island]

This guy acts like a redditor

[hardy scaffold]

Also ad hominem

[fossil reef]

because apparently nobody else can think of any better ways to bring old units into meta

[hardy scaffold]

What do you suggest

[wicked island]

What is the other way

[fossil reef]

and thus "ah yes familiars, great choice"

[fossil reef]

stated it earlier, dont have it be familiars, have it be something else that doesnt take the same slot that familiars do

[hardy scaffold]

If you call all others who disagree with you stupid then you might be the stupid one

[wicked island]

So

[fossil reef]

never said they were stupid

[wicked island]

The same thing

But its not called familiar

[fossil reef]

not at all

because familiars are familiars

they are unique in their slot

if u have anything else take that slot, that thing is familiar

[wicked island]

So ur entire reasoning is just

Vibes

[fossil reef]

what im saying is that it SHOULDNT take that same slot

[wicked island]

Alr

[hardy scaffold]

Except

1. This would buff units up to the same capabilities as a unit with a familiar would
2. It can just be an additional familiar slot if you push it that far

[fossil reef]

if ur adding static buffs to units, you NEED to have it be an individual thing on its own, and to not make it so it takes a valuable slot that every other unit has access to

[hardy scaffold]

A unique familiar that gave units crit chance with a birb on top of it would be terribly unbalanced

[wicked island]

Literally all he had to say was make it a different slot

[hardy scaffold]

But nooo you didn't explicitly say that so I hate you logic

[fossil reef]

this suggestion was about giving old units stat buffs in terms of damage and passives, since when was crit chance part of this?

[hardy scaffold]

Are you deadass

[fossil reef]

said that a while ago and you refused to read it

[hardy scaffold]

.

[fossil reef]

thats not my fault

[wicked island]

Dawg

[hardy scaffold]

You realise

Passives entail crit chance

[fossil reef]

explain to me where crit chance is stated here

please

[hardy scaffold]

Anything that can affect the unit

[wicked island]

The familiar

[fossil reef]

this all just looks like buffs to damage and passives to me

[hardy scaffold]

Are you fucking slow

[wicked island]

The familiar would give it crit chance...

I wanna say words

[hardy scaffold]

I'm saying if there was like what

[wicked island]

That i cant say

[hardy scaffold]

Why are you taking the kamutoke concept at face value

[wicked island]

Yeah in the hypothetical it would

[fossil reef]

then it would be equivalent to a units passive giving crit chance, of which we already have units doing such

thats not overpowered in the slightest

[hardy scaffold]

So you agree with me?

[fossil reef]

since that would be taken into account when making it

[fossil reef]

no, it should not take the familiar slot

[hardy scaffold]

The unique familiar would take into consideration what it loses because of the loss of a familiar slot

Simple as

If you don't agree then let's agree to disagree

[fossil reef]

but what type of consideration is the problem

are we just buffing it to a non-familiar unit?

or to a mid-tier birb?

[hardy scaffold]

...

[wicked island]

What???

[fossil reef]

the familiar spot plays a HUGE role in how strong a unit is

[wicked island]

Dawg if they make a familiar exclusive to an old unit

So it becomes usable

[fossil reef]

taking that away is a huge deal

[wicked island]

It would obviously be better than a birb

[hardy scaffold]

I'm saying the familiar would act both as a boost and a familiar

Is it that hard to understand

[fossil reef]

you just described familiars twice my man

a boost IS a familiar

[hardy scaffold]

mmm ni

Nah

[fossil reef]

you just said it'd act as a familiar and a familiar

[hardy scaffold]

You're putting words in my mouth now

[fossil reef]

go reread what u just said

please tell me how a familiar isnt just a boost

[hardy scaffold]

Familiars aren't buffs like an eza

...

[fossil reef]

WHAT is an eza

[hardy scaffold]

You haven't played dokkan or DBL sooo

Also?

Als?

Have you played that

[fossil reef]

quit that around 6 months ago

[hardy scaffold]

Do you know what an extreme boost is

[fossil reef]

no

i can look it up rq tho

[hardy scaffold]

It's essentially a rework + stat buffs for old units

[hardy scaffold]

Go ahead

The familiar is meant to act both as an extreme boost and a familiar

[fossil reef]

ok but you can still apply souls to them, yes?

[hardy scaffold]

What

[fossil reef]

souls in als are equivalent to familiars in AV

[hardy scaffold]

Yeah I'm saying the familiar is both

[fossil reef]

slightly different but essentially the same

[hardy scaffold]

Not hard to comprehend

[fossil reef]

the point is you want different familiars for different use cases

[hardy scaffold]

aaaand you lost me because idk what you mean

[fossil reef]

and if u have a unique familiar u wont be able to change the familiar ever without making the unit useless

[wicked island]

What

Like what meter units

[hardy scaffold]

There is an optimal familiar for every unit
Why would you want to switch off if it's the best possible

[fossil reef]

do y'all seriously not switch around some units familiars?

[wicked island]

All the meter units arent old so this wouldnt even apply

[hardy scaffold]

This is like saying you'd put a birb on cid

Meter gain > damage

[fossil reef]

but that optimal familiar might change in the future

[hardy scaffold]

No

[hardy scaffold]

No

[wicked island]

If i have the best familiar for that unit why would i do that

[fossil reef]

you cannot say no to a hypothetical

thats not how hypotheticals work

[hardy scaffold]

If the familiar is actively working in conjunction with the passive there is not a more optimal familiar

There physically cannot be

[fossil reef]

ok in that case we get to the other point of discussion, when will these familiars be added and where will they compare to new units

[nova vine]

Why not just add eza this seems unnecessarily complicated

[hardy scaffold]

Copies als and this is meant to be both a familiar and an eza

[hardy scaffold]

So we're just complaining for nothing

[wicked island]

They would have to code an entirely new system

For that

[fossil reef]

no clue what an eza is but i agree they should be kept seperate instead of combined

[hardy scaffold]

It fits better than a random eza would

[wicked island]

For what tho

[fossil reef]

the point of familiars is to not make stuff set in stone

u have to gamble with them

[hardy scaffold]

Except it is. But go on

[nova vine]

Wouldn’t. It be the same as an evo? Just not called that

[fossil reef]

thats literally the whole purpose

[nova vine]

They woudl have to code new stuff to make it change passives too

[wicked island]

Yea

[hardy scaffold]

Then make a double Evo instead of just 50 stat buffs? This is meant for units with no chance of a 2nd evo

[fossil reef]

these familiars genuinely just sound like evolutions but minus the new model/vfx

[hardy scaffold]

You wouldn't see cha in with a 2nd Evo anytime and sukunas has been cancelled

[hardy scaffold]

Did you read the kamutoke concept

[fossil reef]

oh ok so it quite literally is just an evolution minus the evolution 💀

[hardy scaffold]

Just have it do what yachiru and babidi do. Not complicated

[hardy scaffold]

Because they physically can't get one

[nova vine]

If is tho they are not remotely the same

[fossil reef]

it should still be an entirely seperate section of a unit

[nova vine]

It completely changes the passives

[fossil reef]

not the familiar

[nova vine]

Yea

[hardy scaffold]

It's literally just extreme boost + familiar

[fossil reef]

why combine them tho

literally just seperate them

[nova vine]

Just make it an ex boost

[fossil reef]

you are literally just saying "i want an evolution for the unit, but i dont want it to be called an evolution"

[hardy scaffold]

Easier to combine, fixes a bland system, doesn't copy als

[fossil reef]

its not easier to combine at all? it might even be MORE complicated

[wicked island]

Hiw

[nova vine]

All tds do is copy each other

[wicked island]

How

[fossil reef]

have u ever coded anything?

[wicked island]

You just put stats and effects on a familisr

[hardy scaffold]

Not at all it's just stat buffs plus familiar

[wicked island]

Instead of a unit

Which is what they have already done

[nova vine]

No u woudl have to make it alter the passives

[wicked island]

Dawg

[fossil reef]

having something that changes the way something works entirely but conditionally is much harder than just permanently changing the way something works

[nova vine]

It isn’t just adding to it it’s also taking away

At that point just make it eza

[fossil reef]

if ur going to buff the unit, buff the unit

dont just slap the title "familiar" on there and call it a day

[hardy scaffold]

It feels more raw than just ezaing that character

You could also have more variety than just doing a few stages for a stat buff

And the as I said it'd work symbiotically with the unit in perfect cohesion

[fossil reef]

then suggest THAT rather than just turning familiars into evolutions

[wicked island]

No because i hate FUN!!

[hardy scaffold]

You're essentially asking for a more boring version of what I suggested

[fossil reef]

what you suggested is already boring

[hardy scaffold]

I don't think ezas would work better than this so I didn't suggest it

[fossil reef]

its literally just evolutions BUT it takes the familiar slot

[wicked island]

They are literally the same i have no idea why they are arguing agaisnt it

They just hate familiars

Ig

[fossil reef]

familiars do not equal permanent stat increases

they equal conditional stat increases

that condition being having the familiar equipped

[hardy scaffold]

To you. 222 people have starred this

[wicked island]

Yes that is

[fossil reef]

what this suggestion is asking is just "make evolutions for units but in the form of familiars"

[wicked island]

What it would do

[nova vine]

It’s more complicated for 0 reason

[hardy scaffold]

This is a combination of that and extreme boosts lmao I don't see your point

[fossil reef]

precisely

[wicked island]

Its literally the same

[fossil reef]

if u want evolutions without evolutions, suggest that concept, dont drag familiars into this

[wicked island]

There has not been a single valid point

Other than i dont like it

[nova vine]

Yes it does the same but u make it harder to code by making it a familiar

[fossil reef]

exactly

[hardy scaffold]

More complicated for the sake of ingenuity, utilisation of old features and innovation
This is like saying challenges shouldn't exist and we should just get 2 rerolls every half an hour

[fossil reef]

more complicated in the sake of just making it needlessly complicated

you could add this functionality outside of familiars

[wicked island]

You might be cooking at the last sentance

[fossil reef]

but chose to put them into familiars for some reason

[nova vine]

Why use features just to use them

It doesn’t improve anything

[fossil reef]

this should fr just be its own concept, not tied to familiars at all

it makes no sense to bring in prior buffs to reworks

[hardy scaffold]

So you agree with the latter statement of that message??

[fossil reef]

keep them seperate

[wicked island]

Would that not be harder to code

And make it more complicated

[fossil reef]

not at all

[wicked island]

Which is why you dont want it

[nova vine]

Yea challenges suck they shouldn’t exist

[fossil reef]

keeping familiars the exact same is not harder than changing them

[hardy scaffold]

If the issue is that it's "harder to code", you have no reason to worry about that

[fossil reef]

how did you come to any other conclusion?

[hardy scaffold]

Do not interact with me further.

[nova vine]

I do

What?

[hardy scaffold]

You heard me

[wicked island]

So ur telling me adding an entire new system for old units is easier to make than using prexistant code and just putting stats on it

[nova vine]

Nah this is a public platform

[fossil reef]

my guy is acting like it wont impact us at all while it would lengthen time between updates and may cause a variety of bugs and issues

[nova vine]

Yes exactly updates are already long

[hardy scaffold]

hypothetical and unlikely

[nova vine]

U do know this is av we talking about

[fossil reef]

its not as simple as "use preexisting code", you'd essentially be making evolutions in the form of familiars, you arent just changing values but rather the way the entire unit works

[hardy scaffold]

If everything was just given to you on a silver platter instead of having effort to achieve it then we wouldn't have a game we'd have a reward simulator

[fossil reef]

there is a big difference between "buff damage by 20%" and "change the entire way a unit works"

[hardy scaffold]

This point makes zero sense rebel

[wicked island]

Okay but ur telling me

[hardy scaffold]

Damage buffs aren't a rework

[wicked island]

Adding an entire new system

Would be easier

[fossil reef]

exactly, familiars are not reworks

[nova vine]

Yes it would

[fossil reef]

absolutely

[hardy scaffold]

Except this is...?

[fossil reef]

you are already implementing an entire new system INTO a preexisting system

[nova vine]

It’s easier to make somthing new then to tear down the old familiar code and rework it

[fossil reef]

you arent not making the new system

[hardy scaffold]

Maybe the concept of ezas and zenkais is too foreign to you

[fossil reef]

you are just making it harder to add

[wicked island]

Yea im done these guys are dumb asf gl drain

[fossil reef]

its the same end but more work to get here

[nova vine]

Are people just allergic to criticism

[hardy scaffold]

wdym gl I'm sleeping I've already told them that they're stupid

[fossil reef]

apparently

[hardy scaffold]

Shit argument

[fossil reef]

since when is 1 word an argument?

[hardy scaffold]

I'm saying your criticism is shit

[fossil reef]

our criticism is that you made this needlessly complicated

which you did

and refuse to admit

[hardy scaffold]

You're conveying a point aren't you? You're conveying an argument

Basic english

[fossil reef]

you can have the exact same functionality but not in the form of familiars

[hardy scaffold]

"make it boring for no reason"

[fossil reef]

yet you choose to stand your ground on forcing familiars to be overhauled for some bizarre reason

[nova vine]

Its the same thing how is it more boring

[fossil reef]

but only some familiars

[nova vine]

U said it ur self it’s the same exact thing

[fossil reef]

hey man! its not taking the familiar slot anymore! its boring!

[nova vine]

Why does it matter how u get it

[hardy scaffold]

It's innovative, executable and unique

If you have a problem with that then move on

[fossil reef]

how is taking an old system unique?

if it was truly unique it'd be its own thing

[hardy scaffold]

Are you serious?

[nova vine]

There is NOTHING creative about atd at all

This game was literally an AA copy

They steal everything from gacha

[hardy scaffold]

Making something new out of an old system is making something new.

[mortal umbra]

every games copies off each other

u cant be saying this

[nova vine]

Yes that’s my point

[mortal umbra]

thats how u stay up while they go down

[fossil reef]

its not something new though?

its literally just evolutions

u decribed evolutions but shoved it into familiars

for no apparent reason other than "evolutions got rejected so ill try to make a workaround"

making one of these unique familiars would be equal if not more work than just making the evolution for the unit

(which btw evolutions could have all those "unique" methods of obtainment u mentioned)

to me, this just sounds like making extreme boosts from ALS but sticking it to familiars so its "unique" when it really just isnt

[hardy scaffold]

... It's meant for units with no 2nd evolutions, so you're just lying

I literally said what it was yet you ignored me and kept ranting on about this evolution agebda

I'll say it one more time for your sake

It is a combination of extreme boosts and familiars

There? You happy?

[fossil reef]

yes, its a form of evolution without the title of evolution

you obviously didnt read what i said

you just want the AFFECT of evolutions in the FORM of familiars

instead of having some other piece of unique thing

just shoving it into a preexisting feature

[hardy scaffold]

And there's literally no issue with this

[hardy scaffold]

It uses the feature uniquely

If the character can't get a 2nd evo this is the next best thing

[fossil reef]

except that it should be its own thing instead of taking a preexisting feature and making you unable to use that feature

[fossil reef]

this isnt the "next best thing", this is quite literally just an evolution that is renamed to "not an evolution"

[hardy scaffold]

Stat boosts and passive changes fit rework/extreme boost more than an evolution in this case, so again you're twisting my words

If the concept of unit stat changes and passive changes is too similar for your liking then you're disagreeing with the av Devs not me

They're already scheming to rework gojo

[hardy scaffold]

Already explained it functions as both so this complaint is null

You gonna respond properly or do some more reactions

why did I even ask you've conceded already anyway

[flint flame]

wait was this confirmed?

[nova vine]

Doesn’t that mean the devs are disagreeing with u? They are reworking the unit like we said not giving the unit a exclusive familiar

[nova vine]

There was a poll but it seems like gojo is going to win

[flint flame]

im asking if its a confirmed rework

[nova vine]

Oh nothings confirmed yet but most likely

[hardy scaffold]

The suggestion only hinted that the unit would return into the meta, through what means was not specified

So no you're wrong

[hardy scaffold]

Nah just seems likely
(they're not adding 500% damage and leaving it at that I promise you)

[ripe lance]

It said the unit would return to viability, i think people expectong him to become top 10 all of a sudden are gonna be disappointed

[sterile atlas]

did 1970 get banned

[hardy scaffold]

Top 20 is more then enough

[hardy scaffold]

if you don't think mushy is just another alt of his then yeah

[ripe lance]

Should be the case, though again, they believe diavolo is also "viable", so you never know💀

[hardy scaffold]

Gojo is in the same tier as diavolo, he'll probably be mid-high meta tier

[ripe lance]

Surely

[hardy scaffold]

I really hate how they shafted sukuna though

like I'm thinking they'll just make them both viable

But then again it's av dev team

[rancid idol]

they need to make it happen

[hardy scaffold]

They'd get sued if they do an actual meguna kit

[rancid idol]

its worth the risk trust

[hardy scaffold]

Av drops the meguna update and then gets the AA treatment an hour later 😭

[rancid idol]

let me be delulu 😔

[hardy scaffold]

yeah i dont think kurumi has a chance at ALL 💔

[sour rain]

does this mean

[hardy scaffold]

where are they gonna include wou

IF they add tooru

like worldlines or sum?

[buoyant jay]

Maybe its one of the devs picks (prob not)

[hardy scaffold]

hopefully

[mortal umbra]

He was voided

[hardy scaffold]

we know

[mortal umbra]

so what does that tell you?

why would they make him the new wl unit

all of that hype for what

[hardy scaffold]

dmca or already planned to be added

and as we know jojos manga doesn't have any dmca issues

[lost crater]

rebel is fighting against the world

i lowkey think we just want more interesting familiars cuz the meta is birb

[lost crater]

and like 2 or 3 familiars that buff specific units

[wet perch]

Vro

[sour rain]

more confused on why she wasnt in the bleach upd

😭

[hardy scaffold]

exactly

like what

[hardy scaffold]

wdym "Vro" it fits

[wet perch]

Why are you pinging me gang

Not like

I ever pinged u

[fossil reef]

🙏

more good familiars aint a bad idea

sticking evolutions/reworks into familiars IS a bad idea

and buddy had the audacity to say "he already conceded" like it wasnt 10pm and it had been going on for an hour 💀

literally talking to a brick wall

[lost crater]

have you played any hoyoverse games at all

i was thinking

[fossil reef]

played genshin for like 2 or 3 weeks but that was a while ago

[lost crater]

of something like their signature weapons

[fossil reef]

yea thatd be fully ok

having a unique function to act as a rework is fine

[lost crater]

yeah basically 5 star characters have signature weapons that dont give them new abilities and instead have passives that synergize with that specific character

[fossil reef]

my biggest problem was them just shoving it into familiars

[lost crater]

they dont synergize so obviously as well, like its not a "if this specific ability on this character is used then they get this buff"

[fossil reef]

imo the gojo rework should be something like an extra item you should get

[lost crater]

gojo rework of doom

[fossil reef]

not just a "if you had him surprise now hes super good again"

gojo was a past meta unit, a bunch of ppl have monarch on him

there should be some sort of extra step to make him good again

[lost crater]

im sure they wont just rework and buff him i hope they do something unique to him like vsjw (doesnt have to be a second evo though obv)

[fossil reef]

im fairly sure it will literally just be a rework and buff :/

[lost crater]

that would be unfortunate

[fossil reef]

well i mean its the most likely scenario

i rlly just hope hes not a vanguard tho

a 2nd perm vanguard being gojo would be stupid

[hardy scaffold]

huh

[hardy scaffold]

2v239 😭

[fossil reef]

and yet there are suggestions with 400+ stars and they arent added

[hardy scaffold]

you deadass

[fossil reef]

wild how stars dont usually mean squat

[hardy scaffold]

i'm saying nobody agrees with you

[fossil reef]

you said it urself 2v239

[hardy scaffold]

all your counterarguments against this don't make sense

[fossil reef]

at least one person does

[fossil reef]

to you maybe

[hardy scaffold]

i've already debunked every single one of them

[fossil reef]

you only had one person agreeing with you in terms of why my counter arguments were bad

[hardy scaffold]

half of your points were either just lying or exaggeration

[fossil reef]

you say debunk but its just you repeating the same 4 lines

[fossil reef]

thats not debunking

thats being stubborn

[hardy scaffold]

because you don't seem to get it

[fossil reef]

explain which ones

please

go ahead

you cant deny that your idea of unique familiars are essentially just reworks

they change the entire unit

and you ARE just sticking that concept into familiars for literally no reason

when it could just be its own mechanic

like i said before, concept isnt bad, the implementation of the concept is

more specifically YOUR implementation of the concept (aka familiars)

[lost crater]

Dawn and Dusk by the Lake - Furina's Signature Weapon
When the equipping character's current HP increases or decreases, Elemental Skill DMG dealt will be increased by 8% for 6s. Max 3 stacks. This effect can be triggered once every 0.2s. When other party members' current HP increases or decreases, the equipping character's Max HP will be increased by 14% for 6s. Max 2 stacks. This effect can be triggered once every 0.2s. The aforementioned effects can be triggered even if the wielder is off-field.

[fossil reef]

well i mean that just sounds like a regular familiar

not what this suggestion is

[lost crater]

maybe this isnt the best example

but one of furina's abilities changes hp

[fossil reef]

this suggestion has specific units in the description

not universal buffs based on conditions

[lost crater]

yeah last night i saw this and i was abt to suggest something more like universal but "signature" familiars instead of unit exclusive familiars

[fossil reef]

like quite literally

it should just say "Unit Reworks without evos"

cuz thats what it is

[hardy scaffold]

quit complaining bro 💔

i've told you like 20 times

[fossil reef]

see this is how i know im right

[hardy scaffold]

its ezas + familiar

[lost crater]

[fossil reef]

you just start denying claims flat out since you cant dispute them

[lost crater]

im not gonna talk anymore on this one

[fossil reef]

you cant tell me there was any specific reason to put them in familiars

besides "i didnt want to make a new mechanic"

[lost crater]

it was a good idea but rebranding unit specific rebuffs under familiars isnt the best idea

[fossil reef]

thats all ive been saying this entire time

and he cant wrap his head around why thats bad

the 237 upvotes got to his ego

[hardy scaffold]

i've argued with stuff like this since i was at 0

you spent the entirety of last night arguing with me over "grr ur idea is bad"

[fossil reef]

i wouldnt call an hour "the entirety of last night" but go off ig

[flint flame]

Shit can not be this deep bro

[mortal umbra]

Not always

it is the meta on 99% of the units sure but nah

[lost crater]

^

[mortal umbra]

for yhwach the new familiar is better
for kaguya strange cat is better

[lost crater]

yeah thats like 6/17 familiars that are actually used

i mean thats not bad

[mortal umbra]

and thats a good amoutn of %?

no need to say birb is the meta for everything anyways

[lost crater]

thats mostly birb though

[mortal umbra]

theres rojers

and gon

[lost crater]

but what about birb 🤔

[mortal umbra]

birb isnt meant to be used for everything

[lost crater]

sure but it sure is used for most dps units

thats 3 maybe 4 familiars you use for all dps units

and most is birb

it doesnt m atter anyways familiars suck

[vernal otter]

whats the new familiar

[fossil reef]

i think he means the spirit dispenser one

but it isnt better than birb...

its a 30% max (pre corruption) dmg buff for 40 seconds whenever u use an active

while birb is 20%

just getting like a 10% crit chance and 15% crit dmg and 0% range makes birb better

god birb yhwach >>>> god spirit dispenser yhwach

[vernal otter]

oh

yeah birb is best by far

[fossil reef]

technically god summer horn MIGHT be better than god birb

but only on units that do majority status effect dmg

so like... dark mage

[vernal otter]

what it do

[mortal umbra]

dude

[mortal umbra]

it has cosmic element

meaning yhwach can get a 50% dmg buff from it

why do u speak before not doing any research

[fossil reef]

5% from cosmic element assuming u get max

then another 45% for 40 seconds when u use an active assuming u get a double god

[vernal otter]

thats terrible bro

[fossil reef]

for something that does majority DOT dmg not rlly, dot dmg increases based on dmg

at max and with 2 missing stocks, its like a 60% dot dmg buff

[mortal umbra]

it is awful

maybe if it didnt need a life stock to activate it i could see the potential of it,

[fossil reef]

crits dont affect dot damage

[mortal umbra]

how you know?

testers says it does

[vernal otter]

how did u manage to get 60%

[mortal umbra]

thats why escanor is better with birb

bc dot can crit

[fossil reef]

its 15% per stock, so 30% base, then an extra 30% from the dmg increasing which means that DOT will do 30% more too, so 30+30 = 60

[vernal otter]

yeah i remember my choso critting

[mortal umbra]

and if dot DON'T crit like you says then strange would be better

is this guy just lying now bru

[fossil reef]

the chance of getting a good strange is lower than winning the lottery

[mental void]

🥀

Birb still better

[fossil reef]

i mean prob

a god summer ham is way easier to get is all

like several times easier

[mental void]

It isnt at all for anyone

[mortal umbra]

Well i'm not using birb if dot dont crit

so

[mental void]

U can afk birb

And birb isnt limited

Ham is

[fossil reef]

u can afk summer ham...

[mortal umbra]

and with strange

[mental void]

Did i say u cant afk ham?

[vernal otter]

dot can crit

[fossil reef]

specifically excluding it from the "afk" argument is the same as saying it cant be afked

[mental void]

Any form of dmg can crit

And the fact u hve to lose lifestocks annoying

U forced to bring sokora ichigo or let enemies leak

[fossil reef]

or invincible

[green turtle]

where are you getting 50% from

You can get like, 35 at most

assuming max c4 cosmic roll

[mortal umbra]

51.7%

Including the 15% from yhwach’s Main ability

[green turtle]

Oh, dispenser

Highest you get just from that is 50 yeah

[mortal umbra]

Better than birb

[green turtle]

eh

better raw damage sure

but birb is still probably better

[hardy scaffold]

it is bro 💔

[hardy scaffold]

what?

this is insane

[hardy scaffold]

dont think so man

+50% damage off of ability pop is amazing

who else benefits from this more than a god birb than yhwach

gogeta ig

and then mereoleona

[wicked island]

Is that my sc

[mortal umbra]

yes

[wicked island]

The max u can get is 45% btw

[hardy scaffold]

still absoutely insane

[wicked island]

If u get lucky with corruption 3 and get the 30%

[hardy scaffold]

with spammable abilities like yhwachs + these 2s

is there anything good you can get from this