Rework the no sense element passives

[zealous walrus]

There is a problem with the elements passives.

[ocean meteor]

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[zealous walrus]

There are multiple elements in the game with passives that are either completely useless or absurdly overpowered.

Some, like Unknown, are especially problematic. The element gives total immunity, which is an extremely abusable mechanic. Units like VSJW and Koguro remain meta mainly because of this — they can’t be debuffed, which breaks the balance of the game. Why use any other unit when you have one that’s immune to everything and also has summons and nukes?
In Koguro’s case, it’s even worse due to multiple elements and Dimensional effects, making them outright busted.

Meanwhile, there are elements that barely do anything useful — many passives serve no purpose in 75% of situations.
There are also passives that grant immunity to specific debuffs, further reducing strategic variety.

The Unknown passive should definitely be changed.
Perhaps giving these troops true damage would keep their value without being excessive. 12.5% true damage could be a good alternative.

And some other passives that are unnecessarily bad should be improved to make them worth considering.

🌀 Elements That Need a Rework
(All changes below are purely conceptual and subject to developer revision.)

Fire
 +3s to all Damage-over-Time effects (Burn/Bleed)

Holy
 All debuffs applied within range only last 5 seconds

Passion
 +10% Damage against enemies with more than 40% HP

Blast
 Makes enemies explode when die making 6.5% of their damage

Unbound
 +10% Critical Chance

[wary copper]

Unknown is fine

[rotund gull]

thats kinda the point of unknown isnt it

[zealous walrus]

no

[zealous walrus]

i dont know i think is broken

[cyan mural]

i think elements shoud be strong in their own way

[zealous walrus]

and make other element useless

[cyan mural]

unknown is strong bc its immune to everything

fire element can be strong by increasing dot dmg like u said but i think thats too plain

[zealous walrus]

is just a concept

[rotund gull]

honestly idk why unbound hasnt already been changed

5% might as well js not exsist

[zealous walrus]

yeah should be strong in their way without powercreep others

[brittle bobcat]

Are we going to ignore water? 💔

[zealous walrus]

water is inmune to spa reduction

[brittle bobcat]

Oh wow

How useful

[zealous walrus]

yeah

[brittle bobcat]

Only good for one boss in the entire game

[honest fulcrum]

bosses in naruto map make ur spa 2x or 1.5x

[zealous walrus]

but the ill do something to give more spa

[rotund gull]

as if that fucking matters your nuking them anyway

[brittle bobcat]

Kisame gives +50% for like 5s

[rotund gull]

you dont even need a trait

[rotund gull]

for some units it doesnt even do that

[honest fulcrum]

odyssey exists and also later in pvp they will add something like energy drain but for spa

[rotund gull]

they js ignore it cuz of immunity

[ionic anchor]

why take blast's buff and give it to unknown😭

[zealous walrus]

i feel that make more sense with the elements

[rotund gull]

no one plays pvp and who actually cares about odyssey

[honest fulcrum]

people do play pvp, and there are people who also enjoy odyssey

[craggy ivy]

could be just a buff at the dmg reduction bypass

[zealous walrus]

can u explain it better?

[craggy ivy]

other changes are good tho

[zealous walrus]

i dont see it at all

[craggy ivy]

i already thought abt unbound bein 10% instead of 5

[rotund gull]

the whole 3 people who play pvp are gonna love that man

[honest fulcrum]

i only see fire and passion needing a rework

[craggy ivy]

instead of 10% dmg reduction bypass it could be 20% or 25%

got it?

[rotund gull]

what does passion even do

[honest fulcrum]

i enjoy pvp myself cuz its quite fun

[zealous walrus]

yeah but i think that is op

[honest fulcrum]

2% range per passion unit placed

[lament turret]

"But it ruins the balancin-" who cares bro

This is a TDS game

[zealous walrus]

[craggy ivy]

increases range of other passion in range (it stacks) but its like 2%

[rotund gull]

wow thats garbage

[lament turret]

With a broken and dead PVP game

[craggy ivy]

ong

actually the game isnt balanced at all

[lament turret]

IT NEVER WAS

[rotund gull]

mfs talking about balancing in a TD game like be fr

[craggy ivy]

wanting it that bad doesnt improve anything

[lament turret]

Yall are so inclined to making EVERYTHING FAIR in something that does NOT need it

[zealous walrus]

the point of Av is that

thats the reasion why there is the first td with traitless

option

[lament turret]

And they're going to stop trying to balance the game

btw

Said it themselves they'll introduce a little powercreeping so units dont feel useless like this update

[rotund gull]

yea the option which like half the playerbase dont care about

[craggy ivy]

i love the details, the not that crazy powercreep and quality overall, but sometimes they do somethings dirty bc of balance

[wary copper]

Erm actually awtd added a traitless option for modes alot earlier

🤓

[cyan mural]

what do the current elements do besides unknown?

i only know what unknown does n cosmic

[zealous walrus]

Spark - Grants units Immunity to DAMAGE reducing debuffs.

Nature - Grants units Immunity to RANGE reducing debuffs.

Water - Grants units Immunity to SPA reducing debuffs.

[wary copper]

Spark and nature have immunity to range and attack reductiob

[zealous walrus]

Fire - Grants 1% additional damage (per unit placement) to other FIRE units in range.

[wary copper]

Oh the guys pulling it up

[zealous walrus]

Holy - Reduces time on Status Effects by 50%.

Passion - Grants 2% additional range (per unit placement) to other PASSION units in range.

Curse - Increases unit's DAMAGE against BOSSES by 30%

Blast - Units ignores 10% of enemies' DAMAGE reduction

Cosmic - Cleanses status effects and debuffs on self (30 second local cooldown).

[blazing minnow]

Bosses in Naruto map get obliterated by 1 attack 🥀

[zealous walrus]

Unbound - Increases unit's CRITICAL rate by 5%

Unknown - ??? (Unit is immune to status ailments and debuffs. Unknown does not independently activate any elemental reactions)

thats all

[wary copper]

Yeah the only ones that require reworks are fire and passion

Unbound and blast could use a buff

[rotund gull]

literally

[craggy ivy]

curse, cosmic, spark, wind and water are in a good spot tbh

[honest fulcrum]

odyssey

[craggy ivy]

even holy i think

[cyan mural]

fire seems like the meta for lb runs

[lament turret]

Unbound is mostly on units that are already extremely good

so not needed

[cyan mural]

but its prob not

[zealous walrus]

holy is useless when the most of debuffs are perma

perma debuffs

🥀

[wary copper]

I mean ig

[zealous walrus]

1% of dmg is useless

[cyan mural]

i think every element besides curse needs a rework

[cyan mural]

can stack tho

[narrow sorrel]

mf fucking forgot nature and water

[blazing minnow]

the hole system need a rework

[rotund gull]

yea in ODYSSEY they dont but thats not really a big problem since odyssey is optional and literally all of the bosses get stronger there so you could say the same thing about a namek boss

[craggy ivy]

thats the main thing it doesnt works

[wary copper]

No it does not

[blazing minnow]

water wets enemies 🔥

[zealous walrus]

yeah but are u pulling more than 20 fire units?

to be more worth than astolfo?

[craggy ivy]

who is using any trait but monarch

[zealous walrus]

bc that i sugested other thing to holy

[cyan mural]

i mean there can be 4 ppl in a team so u can place more than 30 units

[honest fulcrum]

we are talking about mechanics not about the bosses themselves

[barren topaz]

and makes the enemies slip and trip

[cyan mural]

true

but that would just mean u arent using fire right

[blazing minnow]

most of elements are a counter to enemy mechanics, so they are very situational

[cyan mural]

ig fire element doesnt work well with monarch

[wary copper]

I think that is fine

[honest fulcrum]

if they were to rework fire i think it would be this update since escanor is getting added and hes prob gonna be fire

[blazing minnow]

elements should be one of the first thing you look at when building a team

[craggy ivy]

i got 3 fire monarchs, the element does nothing for them

[zealous walrus]

unknow is the solution to everything

[narrow sorrel]

waiting for water to have a purpose

[rotund gull]

[blazing minnow]

they are like a familiar but worse and unchangeable

[blazing minnow]

I already said water should wet enemies 🔥

[cyan mural]

the main rsn they need a rework is bc unknown is so strong. elements should be balanced

[narrow sorrel]

give him his own unique element instead

[blazing minnow]

wet enemies recive more damage from wind 🔥

[narrow sorrel]

is escanor
his fire is not average noob fire like solbadguy

[blazing minnow]

because they get cold 🔥

[wary copper]

Wet enemies, every time you hit then debuff spa by 10% 🔥 🔥 🔥

[blazing minnow]

🔥🔥🔥

[honest fulcrum]

give him all the elements already ngl

[craggy ivy]

buff them all 🔥

[zealous walrus]

he would do intense burn

but still fire

[narrow sorrel]

hell no

[zealous walrus]

still 🥭

[narrow sorrel]

nuclear burn

[honest fulcrum]

make solar trait on escanor buff his damage by 500% since he gets power from the sun

[zealous walrus]

AHSHSAHSAHAS

[narrow sorrel]

cruel burn

fits him

[cyan mural]

when escanor gets added my rengoku finally gonna have some use

[craggy ivy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1387156947874222141/1387407801529405450/togif.gif

[zealous walrus]

yo if u also think the elements need a rework vote even if u dont like my concepts

the point is that a dev watch the post and make something about that

[craggy ivy]

they are reworking half of the game if they count all suggestions

the next 10 updates will be mechanic/modes reworks

[zealous walrus]

they need to do that

id dont want the game to dead more

this game only have a x2 of player than anime strike

[craggy ivy]

lets what changes/qol this summer will have, bc we already know escanor will be another vanguard banner unit

maybe they can cook with a recycled update

[cyan mural]

that might lowk kill the game tho 😭

its too late

[craggy ivy]

like Winter and spring

[topaz apex]

unknown is supposed to be neutral and once they add more element buffs/debuffs it will be more balanced

[zealous walrus]

never is too late

[topaz apex]

cus its not affected

[zealous walrus]

thats only works on worldlines

[cyan mural]

i mean unless theyre fine with the game being at low ccu or decide to close the game down until they rework it then its too late

[craggy ivy]

also Element dmg buffs will be on new modes like it is on tournament, Unknown isnt meant to be buffed by those

[topaz apex]

yeah and its getting added to portals

#「📊」game-polls

like tournaments

[topaz apex]

ik thats the thing, unknown doesnt get buffs from it

[knotty fox]

i think unknown is good as it is

[rotund gull]

TRUE

[zealous walrus]

i have a post talking about elements

[cyan mural]

the problem is its too good

[zealous walrus]

if u want to read it

[zealous walrus]

to me make useless the rest of element passives

[knotty fox]

yea but like only 3 units have it so making it exclusive

so it doesnt get unbalanced

actaully

a lil nerf could be fine

[topaz apex]

its hardly on any units and they are made with the element in mind

just make it so kaguya cant copy unknown cus its unknown

thats the real issue i see with it

[rotund gull]

[zealous walrus]

if they want to make that they will have to rework like 7 elements to make it use full

the only 3 good elements are unknow curse and blast

[honest fulcrum]

spark also

[zealous walrus]

cosmis is fine

[knotty fox]

aslong as it doesnt get spammed on other units

[honest fulcrum]

and cosmic yeah

[zealous walrus]

and spark is good

if u dont count unknow as a element

bc unknow power creep spark

[rotund gull]

cosmic is like the only decent one tbh the rest is js aight and then theres unknown

[knotty fox]

holy is good too imo

[rotund gull]

yea

[knotty fox]

especially in portals it shines

[honest fulcrum]

holy, cosmic, spark, blast, curse

[rotund gull]

[rotund gull]

idk about blast

[zealous walrus]

yep

[zealous walrus]

nah

holy is useless when the enemies permadebuff u

[honest fulcrum]

its good for the guilty gear things when the enemies have gears on them and u just wanna clear it fast

[zealous walrus]

thats the problem of holy

[honest fulcrum]

most bosses stun so its good

[knotty fox]

holy does come in clutch in portals

[cyan mural]

and the units its on are meta. part of the reason why? unknown is way better than other elements

[zealous walrus]

of namek bc in land of gods are useless

[knotty fox]

its very nichee i gotta admit

[honest fulcrum]

nobody does land of gods portals

[topaz apex]

fym hardly meta, its only on vsjw cid and sakura and they are all meta

[rotund gull]

i see a land of gods portal and i js die inside

[honest fulcrum]

i always remove them from my inventory

[rotund gull]

like of all the places you had to give me land of gods

[rotund gull]

i dont even do that im too lazy to

[zealous walrus]

still enemies with that that make the holy passive useless

and powercreeped by unknow

again

may be a way to nerf unknow is that only can be debuffed like a 30%

of his stats

[cyan mural]

idk why it autocorrected to its hardly on. i meant all the units its on are meta

[topaz apex]

well yeah they are meta but they are made with the element in mind

[cyan mural]

what does that mean 😭

[zealous walrus]

that dont solve the problem

[cyan mural]

do u mean theyre balanced so unknown doesnt make them crazy strong

[topaz apex]

yes, if they didnt have unknown i am sure they would me much worse

like kaguya was probably not made with unknown in mind

[zealous walrus]

of the 3 units that are unknown 2 are broken and 1 is supp

so...

[cyan mural]

vsjw and cid and sakura would still be meta without unknown

[topaz apex]

cid would be much lower, the immunity is a huge part of him

[cyan mural]

is it?

he can swap

it makes him more useful

but i woudlnt say its a huge part of him

[topaz apex]

i mean it carries him on these new stages and immunity is practically required nowadays with all these effects

i think kaguya shouldnt be able to copy unknown though

[cyan mural]

cid is still great without unknown tho. hes used his nuke and for being unknown

[zealous walrus]

that would be a perfect nerf to her

bc is compleatly broken

with cid kaguya is like a god

[topaz apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1291141058650046547/1397300513531232256/IMG_1708.gif

[zealous walrus]

no debuff and 10% dmg red

[cyan mural]

the way i see it, every element is overshadowed by unknown

[zealous walrus]

yes

bc isnt even a passive