Some stuff you devs can learn from Als (2 Week player)

[slate quail]

Last season maximum of namek was not even 350 so thats not too much

[placid torrent]

yeah that's why it wasn't super high, lag was immense

[slate quail]

I only crashed in church when i was at like wave 180 and 30k ping ?

[slate quail]

Maybe ure right , ive never did inf other season

[placid torrent]

didnt they include "fixed inf lag" or smth in patch notes

[slate quail]

They did but idk how effective it is

Cuz even in tourney when u have 600 ennemies it lag a lot

[fresh stream]

Why is ts in spotlights

[pine solar]

mabye because it has 70 upvotes

[fresh stream]

Yes i hate this community thats My point

[placid torrent]

??

there are things they can improve on?

that als is doing somewhat well?

[molten obsidian]

i mean im giving actual points and the oppositions points is fuck you

play on pc instead

"auto upgrade removes any attention needed from the game" is some crazy shit to say when we got mecros/ahk's doing it alr

and what the fuck do console players have?

nothing well its their game after all 😮‍💨

[placid torrent]

maso chism

[upbeat oyster]

Not everyone uses those, though. I'd say it's a lot smaller portion of the playerbase than people think

[fresh stream]

ALS is brain slop

These suggestions dont do much other than make the game braindead

I got my way through ALS to get denji and all the way through it felt unsatisfying to play

I don't see how adding auto to things adds "fairness" against mecros when You still need to manually choose stages

It just makes them more powerful since now you don't Even need to put effort into making a good one

People in the ALS community ask for an auto place and auto play i dont see how these things make The game healthier whatsoever

The only thing i can agree with is that ALS has qol that should be adapted into AV

Other than that the points of update times is simply not understanding game development and the scope in which ALS works at when most of their work is outsourced

[placid torrent]

Av used to have better update times

The 4.5 to 6.0 stretch was horrid

This upd was on time, which is good.

Qol, update times etc are definitely things they need to look at

[fresh stream]

I mean no yeah 6.0 wait was horrendous but biweekly to weekly is not possible with the workflow of the dev team

Unless they add like

Extremely small updates

They just gotta lower down on their scope for what they do

Pvp was a bit too much to be worked on in 3 weeks

[wispy bronze]

aint av dev team wayy smaller than als dev team?

i forgot to ping that guy above me

he will get my message. Ik he will

[fresh stream]

LMAO

No yeah

Av is like

30 ppl or so im pretty sure

Supposedly BOSS studios is over 70 and they still do their maps outsourced

[upbeat oyster]

AV's main team is def not 30 iirc

It's smaller than that

[wispy bronze]

tbf i dislike ppl comparing games too much. I know that comparing yourself with others is good but i do think ppl nowdays in suggestions are nitpicking too much (idk if that word exists)

[wispy bronze]

ye thats one reason on why we cant compare av to als. But even with a wayy smaller dev team, i do think that av is outperforming als (not in every aspect but they do be cooking. I also like that av prioritizes quality over quantity. Alr enough glazing, now i am gonna play some league

[primal zodiac]

Yo what does this mean

tldr

😭

[languid yew]

The only “limited” characters I’d have return are exclusive rarity units from seasonal banners

Nobody gonna complain about them returning

[wispy bronze]

cap

[languid yew]

you’re not gonna complain about Arcueid returning

[wispy bronze]

wait which units returned in als

did i miss something?

[languid yew]

The summer units from last year returned

[wispy bronze]

well a limited is a limited. But i wouldnt want ddd units to return

[wispy bronze]

whats his name

you dont mean yuta or?

or who exactly

[fresh stream]

Testers included or not

[wispy bronze]

vro

[primal zodiac]

Make diablo rerun like als bro

[wispy bronze]

testers aint devs

[primal zodiac]

this devs smh

[languid yew]

I’m talking about Doflamingo, Erza and Law

[fresh stream]

ALS and AV are inherently very different type of games too

[fresh stream]

Ik but better to ask

[upbeat oyster]

not

[wispy bronze]

100 percent agree. Its like the crabby patty formular, als got planktons formular and we got mr. Crabs formular

[upbeat oyster]

Even then the tester team is small af too

[fresh stream]

Jesus

[fresh stream]

LMFAO thats a really Nice way to put it

[wispy bronze]

[placid torrent]

Biweekly is possible

[languid yew]

for an update like 4.5 or 5.5 possibly

[placid torrent]

Yeah i think both of those are way better than the mess 6.0 was

[languid yew]

I prefer them over 5.0 as well

[placid torrent]

It should be 2 weeks for 0.5 and 3 weeks for .0 updates

[languid yew]

Just like AA in their prime

[wispy bronze]

idk about 3 weeks. Maybe 4

i wouldnt mind to wait a month.

[placid torrent]

I would

If bleach upd can be 3 weeks

[wispy bronze]

but maybe ppl are impatient

[placid torrent]

Every .0 can be 3 weeks

[languid yew]

4.0 was an exception according to the devs

[wispy bronze]

i am afraid they will add more slop to get updates earlier :C.

but

if the quality stays the same, i may look over it

[placid torrent]

Id rather have playable slop compared to stuff like pvp

Or odyssey even

"Unique gamemodes" clearly dont seem that fun

[languid yew]

I’d rather have new gamemodes come out every other x.0 update

[wispy bronze]

i wont lie, maybe pvp will shine brighter in the future

[placid torrent]

How well has that worked so far

[wispy bronze]

if there are more units with pvp passives

[placid torrent]

Heavily doubt it gamemodes already half dead

[languid yew]

We don’t really know since it hasn’t been done yet

[fresh stream]

They dont gotta add slop they just have to actually design better their gamemodes and have them well done before adding the next one

[placid torrent]

It has

[wispy bronze]

or if they ever add a victorious skin(idk if there is already one). for example, if you hit gold, you get a skin on the rank reset

[placid torrent]

4.0 5.0 6.0 all had smth they called major gameplay features

[fresh stream]

Introduce a gamemode each 5 .0 updates or so and just spend the next time working it so its actually fun

[wispy bronze]

ayo pvp was hard to implement into the game

[languid yew]

1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, & 6.0 all had new major gamemodes added

[wispy bronze]

and you cant talk about thatt easily

cuz roblox will always act out

and somehow cause a bug

[fresh stream]

Ik thats why im saying that they have to focus more on actually ironing out their gamemodes

[placid torrent]

They kinda did huh

[wispy bronze]

tbf maybe we already got a good amount of gamemodes.

[fresh stream]

Like they wont be perfect but we sure can have more time to make them actually engaging and rewarding

[placid torrent]

Yeah they should do them every 2 updates and ensure half the game doesnt break

[wispy bronze]

like after the release of the game modes?

[languid yew]

They have a really nice foundation imo

[wispy bronze]

i am a little bit slow

[placid torrent]

Hard to appreciate any effort put into smth when what i get after 4 weeks of wait is 6.0

[wispy bronze]

the bugs may have been a turn off but i liked it

[fresh stream]

Id love for them to make oddysey like an actual completely different Game where you choose units and can build them a skill tree

[placid torrent]

It had several faults

Bugs were one of em

[wispy bronze]

wait the goku pfp

i swear i saw you ragebaiting in a suggestion but i forgot in which

.>

lmao

[fresh stream]

I mean sure but my point is that you don't really hop on pvp or odyssey because you like them

[placid torrent]

It was this suggestion itself

[wispy bronze]

oh

[fresh stream]

Oh lol

[placid torrent]

You called me saying that als has things they should learn from ragebait

I still stand by that statement

This update took 2 weeks

No 0.5 update should take longer than it

[languid yew]

ALS should learn how to make a good game

[fresh stream]

Dangg

[wispy bronze]

preach

[wispy bronze]

depens on what they add

[placid torrent]

They know how to appease their players, why change a formula which clearly works

[fresh stream]

I mean you can learn a bit from every other TD in the maeket

I just want them to actually add things that make the game more of itself

[wispy bronze]

yk what als should do, banning bots

[fresh stream]

The appeal to me on AV over others TDs is how actually fun it feels

[fresh stream]

LOL

[placid torrent]

This update had like 3x the units usual 0.5 updates do man, there's no real reasoning for any update that doesnt atleast have a vanguard to take longer

[placid torrent]

Probably

Their playercount is definitely inflated rn

[fresh stream]

Being fair from what i understand theyve also had dev issues in the backend

[wispy bronze]

als at least feels unique and provides quality. I just dislike als as much as i dislike grow a garden and steal a brain rot. the updates are bland

[fresh stream]

5.5 didnt have katakuri finished until the day before the upd

[placid torrent]

Gag is way better compared to most other super big roblox games

Id take it over blox fruits any dag

Even if i dont play the game

[wispy bronze]

sadly als devs dc about bots.

[placid torrent]

Yeah that just shouldnt happen

[wispy bronze]

lol

[fresh stream]

Gag is the biggest game in The world rn im pretty sure

[wispy bronze]

thats nothing you can controll tho

[placid torrent]

Maybe

[wispy bronze]

lmao

[wispy bronze]

like roblox wise?

[fresh stream]

I mean they just gotta adress those issues to their Best capablilities

[languid yew]

Unfortunately

[wispy bronze]

or on all platforms

[placid torrent]

Idk man it seems whenever the pressure to drop a good upd gets to them the results are decent

[fresh stream]

Every single game ever

[placid torrent]

3.5, 4.0, 6.5 are all high quality updates that came out on time

[wispy bronze]

they dont have more players than league of legends no?

[placid torrent]

Perhaps minecraft has more..

Who knows

[languid yew]

Meh Minecraft is bigger than Grow A Garden

[wispy bronze]

i still hate how slop is ruling roblox . hoping av and rell seas make me forget all those sloppy games

[fresh stream]

I mean Minecraft doesnt show their full playerbase

[languid yew]

AV is slop but it’s good slop

[fresh stream]

Its on different devices and versions

[placid torrent]

Minecraft doesnt show their playerbase at all

[fresh stream]

Id argue Even calling it slop its a bit of a deservice if anything updates fail because they try to be less slop

[wispy bronze]

this upd maybe was sloppy. But i wouldnt call it slop, if they at least try to be unique and dont drop copy paste updates weekly for some drolling audience

[fresh stream]

Pvp wouldve of been good if it didnt give you pennies for winning and didnt come broken out the gate

[placid torrent]

Pvp wouldve never been a popular gamemode

[languid yew]

gacha games are inherently slop

[placid torrent]

It was not smart to focus an entire update on pvp and guilty gesr

2 things most people just dont give a fuck about

[wispy bronze]

i wouldnt disrespect gg

[fresh stream]

It could be if it was actually enjoyable

[wispy bronze]

but i think, the younger audience may be to dumb for pvp

[placid torrent]

No it straight up never would be, unless it had release paragon level rewards

[wispy bronze]

i still think pvp may shine brighter in the future

[placid torrent]

Traits mode being shit is self explanatory

I dont see how traitless would be that fun either

[languid yew]

If they expand on it, yeah

[placid torrent]

Not a single soul ive talked to found this shit fun

It would need to give like 50 rrs a day for it to be worth doing

[fresh stream]

I mean BTD has had a pvp gamemode for the longest time and it's been good

[placid torrent]

Yeah but btd isnt a roblox game

You cant do well if you dont know the environment youre in

[languid yew]

I think the dumbest BTD player is more intelligent than the smartest ALS player

[fresh stream]

Fair

[wispy bronze]

i wont lie most ppl didnt even play pvp and hate on it .

[fresh stream]

I mean that doesnt mean it isnt worth it to give a try to actually add something that could be fun

[placid torrent]

I played 10 games and that was more than enough for me to not like it

[wispy bronze]

but lets see what they cook

[placid torrent]

Objectively speaking its a bad idea for the game's health

[fresh stream]

The issue is that pvp isnt fun i don't think the issue is inherently pvp

[languid yew]

It could be really fun, but it’s rough at the moment

[wispy bronze]

thats like nothing. climbing higher, makes it more interesting. Cuz ppl in lower elo legit dont even know how to play it

[placid torrent]

I didnt want to climb higher, it would be pointless

[wispy bronze]

100 percent agreeing

waiting for rank rewards

[fresh stream]

I mean if the gamemode isnt fun from the start it isnt worth playing ngl

[placid torrent]

Bad rewards, not fun, tedious, monotonous

[wispy bronze]

when they worked on it

[languid yew]

PVP would benefit from matches that take 5-6 minutes to complete

[fresh stream]

Yeah

A timegated gamemode would be fine

[wispy bronze]

ye bugs killed the hype. But it will have a comeback, ik it will

[placid torrent]

They should just do more stuff like cid raid and boss rushes but actually make the mechanics reasonable

Instead of bullshit like handcuffs

[fresh stream]

Im still mad about handcuffs

[wispy bronze]

lmao

[placid torrent]

Salter raid is a good mode because youre not forced to use the stage mechanic, but properly using it helps you

And you only need to like 10 of it a week

[fresh stream]

But this will always come i dont think gamemodes will eclipse this typa stuff ever being added

Specially now

That theyre leaving them to rest

At least for a while

[placid torrent]

Pvp was just not worth focusing on ima be real

PEople wouldve been more excited about trading

Trading wouldve legit brought in more players

[fresh stream]

I disagree it simply didnt need to have it be the selling point of the upd

[languid yew]

We can all agree the first half of a PVP match is the most boring shit imaginable

[fresh stream]

Yea

[wispy bronze]

tbf the worst thing was that pvp rounds were too long. but they fixed that

now we wait for them to cook more

[placid torrent]

Thats what focusing an update on it means

[wispy bronze]

and then we look into it in the future

but only adding trading on a .0

would had been bad icl

[fresh stream]

I'm not against they trying different stuff but i just want them to make them actually better and expand on them with time

[wispy bronze]

my man

[fresh stream]

I mean you can put a lotta of time into pvp and just have it be like

Dragón Ball

And people would flock to it

[wispy bronze]

crazy how ppl dogshitted vegito

on release

and now he is the goat

[fresh stream]

Bro ppl dogshit every unit on release

People calling aizen bad LMAO

[wispy bronze]

i swear ppl said "oh they only added 4 to 5 units

and completly forgot buus kid with 247297892 different forms

like

vro

they are giving out really good and unique kits

and they just ignore that :C

[fresh stream]

I mean i can understand it i finished db update in like

Two days

But calling it bad yeah is not it

[wispy bronze]

they made it ez asf no

easy evo items if you restart

but

[fresh stream]

Yea

[wispy bronze]

it was good

i also liked the ddd upd, but i may be the only one saying that >.>

[fresh stream]

No like i'm saying i can SEE where theyre coming from but the hate can be overblown

[wispy bronze]

well i liked the map

and the units

[placid torrent]

I hope youre the only one saying ts gang

[wispy bronze]

i did hate the Passive they gave saiko

but

[fresh stream]

You are alone on that one dawg i'm sorry

[placid torrent]

30 minute gamemode?

Fuck that

[wispy bronze]

i played through that up

playing since release without mangrco

[fresh stream]

Dang

[wispy bronze]

i wont lie

getting shiny saiko was my only goal

i did get her

but at what cost

alr i gotta go

[wraith token]

3.2k messsages??

[wispy bronze]

see you later or tomorrow my fellow vanguardians

[wraith token]

gang

[wispy bronze]

hamburber

[fresh stream]

Now figure out wether theyre positive or negative

[wraith token]

I aint reading all of that

[languid yew]

For a four week wait I was disappointed by there being only six units

I find Buu to be a novelty unit as opposed to being a practical one

[subtle epoch]

trading could potientally make AV gain the most amount of players in any TD game and i dont think its a stretch

trading was kinda carrying AA for a while during its prime

having a economy in your game just brings in way more ppl, since its give something to do, and (to some people) having fun sitting there sending trade messages

rn, in av, your just kinda either grinding units since there meta, or grinding them b ecause there gonna be valuable in the future

hell, from my knowledge, trading can prob be put in a .5 update since i dont think it should take that long (not really a expert in developing a trade system, just judging it off other games w one)

[placid torrent]

it would

granted, als' playercount rn is heavily botted

this isnt even me hating

it's just obvious that a random ass qol update that didn't even have much hype and had mostly meh characters isn't gonna go above the most hype update they had in months just because

[subtle epoch]

yea i do agree w this but even if you just go into als trading channels you can see hundreds of trading messages, i think ive seen more ppl trade and ask trading questions then ask about the metas ngl

[placid torrent]

yeah trading brings a lot of players

[subtle epoch]

PVP was something no one really asked for, the devs took the gamble and lost it, aleast they realise and acknowledge it

[placid torrent]

it's actually just significantly more content than pvp ever could be

[subtle epoch]

• we have plenty of limited units now, highly demanded units like subaru

[placid torrent]

plus it's actually content for endgame players if that makes sense

[subtle epoch]

so a established economy is already set

[placid torrent]

stocking up on value is smth people do in fact do a lot

[subtle epoch]

ye it makes a ton of sense

rn there isnt much endgame content to do

[placid torrent]

there's legit none

lbs are there but they're miserable

wl lb is fucking awful

plus you could just get reset whenever

inf lb doesnt function half the time

[subtle epoch]

WL LB feels like such a fucking slog to play and im only doing it in the hopes for trading

you dont even get the titles anym0ore

the rewards r ass, why am i getting another dupe of the WL unit 😭

theres no reason to grind portals once u get kaguya, you only hop on weekly to do your RR tasks, if your not doing anything ur farming odyssey gems + challenges to rr

[placid torrent]

stocking up on familiars ig

but that's just lame

that's kinda all the endgame content

try getting a better familiar

[subtle epoch]

well ye, even then that feels so atroicous to do

i dont wanna stock up birbs purely because of cid raid cuffs

neco arc is really easy to get as well

[placid torrent]

yeah since it's just blind gambling

atleast even getting a monarch has an end in sight

but birb is just random bullshit go

[subtle epoch]

blind gambling while having to play a boring mode

endgame content rn is just boring grind to be up to date w the meta

ye thats the same for AA + ALS, but those 2 give you trading as a option, which somehow is just more fun then what AVhas rn

because aleast i see im progressing something

[placid torrent]

als doesnt really tbh

trading in als is kinda just worthless

because no unit has any value

they just bring back shit they advertise as limited whenever they feel like it

plus the powercreep really doesnt help

neither does the fact that cosmetics are usually completely dogshit

[subtle epoch]

ye cant really argue against that, the only 2 things with "value" as is those random inf units that are like 2 in existance or something

the als trading feels more akinned to a modded jojo game

i think AA trading is probably the best system since it also gave F2P players a chance to get rerolls if they were decidated enogh

remember seeing a video of a f2p player with 6 uniques purely off the fact he would grind a shit ton of meta units and trade them off to rr

[placid torrent]

kinda

[subtle epoch]

i mean if you are decidated enough, and you 🥭 s for meta units you can get alot of rrs

but tbh, i dont think the same would apply for AV

since limited units are really easy to get, and the secret portal ones arent that meta to be traded off for

ragna has an advantage of having a wanted shiny, but you only really gonna get 1 shiny unless you mass grind secret portals

[placid torrent]

yeah most probably not

well in some cases it might

for example choy

or the wl units

but the portal secrets are cooked for the most part

[random solstice]

@subtle epoch do you think pvp is a good concept?

[languid yew]

From how long it’s taking them, they should introduce it in a x.0 update

generate more hype

[subtle epoch]

good in concept, was fucking ass in execution

i enjoy something like BTD battles

but AV PVP was not good

Traitless wasnt really funny, felt like a slog
Traits just became who has more monarch battle

i personally think games that ATD games should have not even gotten pvp in the first place

theres too much RNG factors to play in that personally, pvp becomes less about skill, and more about who got lucker in rolls

[placid torrent]

Trading would've been a better addition than pvp in all honesty

Pvp was always gonna be a niche mode

In its current state its a niche and bad mode

Trading is hard to mess up

It gives a goal to a lot of endgame players

And it allows you to get units you need that you cant anymore

[wispy bronze]

Ah yes

Trading isnt hard to mess up

Idk since when you started to play roblox

But a lot of good games back then and still to this day, had dupes happen

When ever a game added trading

U legit cant kill the whole game

I am Fine that they added pvp

I hope they take their time with trading

So that it doesnt have actual game breaking bugs

That somehow can give me 81627q572 copies of any unit ingame

[placid torrent]

the system is hard to mess up

the bugs are a different deal

though yes, trading can introduce very gamebreaking bugs

but other games in this genre have done it well

given enough time, av should be able to too

also trading wouldn't require a huge amount of changes in the game's code

unlike pvp

[upbeat oyster]

so true we should make gems the tradable currency and add a trading hall sub-server and

[placid torrent]

of all the things aa did horribly

trading wasnt 1

[upbeat oyster]

oh no i was talking about ad

[placid torrent]

oh im aware

how could i read smth about shit trading and not realize its about ad

[subtle epoch]

make banner units tradable

[placid torrent]

yeah and make units keep traits

then add a currency that costs 1m gems to get 5k of

[quick garden]

@molten obsidian what did u think of my legendary run?

[molten obsidian]

not bad lol made them shutdown a whole suggestion 🤣

[quick garden]

also btw this nether guy heres ur response btw

Playing together is good. Encouraging co op is good. But the MVP system doesn't promote teamwork—it promotes power imbalances. It creates lobbies where one person does everything while the others can do nothing and still walk away with the same core rewards. That’s not co-op—that’s dependency farming.

[placid torrent]

Removing mvp makes this way worse lol

[subtle epoch]

did bro go to another suggestion

to yap about

[placid torrent]

The carry does get smth

[subtle epoch]

what just got removed

💔

[placid torrent]

Double chests and shamrocks is huge

[molten obsidian]

bro is not backing down today 🔥

[subtle epoch]

you do realise that one person is 🥭 ing btw

the guy carrying is probably taking a piss or sleeping

does not affect him at al

[placid torrent]

Theres a reason people look for leeches, it benefits them too

Its mutually beneficial

Removing it is just stupid

[quick garden]

i didnt say remove MVP. I said MVP in its current form doesn’t promote meaningful teamwork.it promotes lobbies where one strong player does everything and others coast. The system should reward people for actually contributing, not just being in the lobby when someone else does all the work.

[subtle epoch]

"actually contributing"

brother

they have a AHK playing for them

what contributing is that

setting the coordinates pre run?

[placid torrent]

And setting a prerequisite of 10% total damage achieves that?

[subtle epoch]

hell i use default coordinates on most of them

[placid torrent]

Me too lol

It works fine besides theoccasional regen cosmic, but i have those blacklisted

[subtle epoch]

i use rojo on arcueid, so i have around i would say 80% on cosmic regen, so i do clear it

i still say i have 100% WR regardless

[molten obsidian]

also idk if this is gonna help but

[placid torrent]

I have like a 99% probably

I think i lose to ginyu cosmic regen

Besides that its chill

[subtle epoch]

think my only lost to cosmic regen was bridget on GG

[placid torrent]

Iron one taps

[subtle epoch]

because she just goes too fsat

[quick garden]

Exactly that’s the problem. When the system is designed so that mecroing or doing nothing at all gets you the same rewards as actually playing, you’ve built a system where engagement is optional. Whether it’s AFKing, mecroing, or pressing nothing it all works the same. That’s not good co-op design, that’s automation disguised as teamwork.

[placid torrent]

But ginyu is kinda annoying ash for just jinwoo

[quick garden]

well yeah that helps alot shows me their pieces of shit the designed for this system to be this way on purpose

[subtle epoch]

my yoruichi clears that

[placid torrent]

Welcome to roblox, automation is the meta

[placid torrent]

What trait

[subtle epoch]

[placid torrent]

Ah

[subtle epoch]

crazy good for a cheap monarch ngl

[placid torrent]

I dont roll on bum units

[subtle epoch]

good shield breaker for G G

[subtle epoch]

rolled on her during bleach was tryna get like a blitz or smthing

got in 4 rr

was kinda annoyed since i wasnt really p2wing then

[placid torrent]

Maybe kaguya would work when magnos add her configs properly

[molten obsidian]

i mean yeah and i wont lying u were kinda owning those mfs in that suggestion lol

[subtle epoch]

but it works out in the end

been using her alot for just a cheap monarch

only 46k for like 30-40k dps

[quick garden]

well thats what happens the one day i aint high on discord

but why the fuck did the take my suggestion because i was speaking the truth?

[molten obsidian]

.

[subtle epoch]

you dont get the same rewards, MVP gets double the rewards

take spring portals

[wanton canopy]

Because it was leading nowhere maybe

[subtle epoch]

you get around 40-60 with mvp

while non mvps get 20-40

[wooden sedge]

Because it was already talked to with a dev and the convo wasn’t going nowhere

[subtle epoch]

thats almost 40-60k extra flowers

hell, maybe even more

[wanton canopy]

You already stated you only played the game for 2 hours meaning you didnt even experience the problem yourself

[subtle epoch]

everyone literally benefits when it comes to mvp

[placid torrent]

Because there wasnt an argument to be made, people just dont see your point

[wanton canopy]

(im guessing YOU are the leecher in this case)

[quick garden]

What the fuck does he mean "nothing new" we are talking about leeching now where the fuck can i talk abt sth new

[wanton canopy]

And this means your trying to put out a problem based on assumptions and not experience

[placid torrent]

From my perspective all your argument boils down to is your dislike of magnos

[wanton canopy]

which is useless

[subtle epoch]

you only played for 2hrs, your only goin goff what u saw from ur friends

[molten obsidian]

this mf is a war demon

[subtle epoch]

you cant literally make a opinion on ts

[placid torrent]

And i cant exactly take that seriously

[subtle epoch]

💔

[upbeat oyster]

Again, I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Again, before the MVP system, there was literally NO reason to play with other people and/or carry them. The system helps both parties out, it's not a bad design. And taking the convo to a new suggestion when it was already dismissed is pointless.

[quick garden]

not really its just poor game design

[placid torrent]

Thats just your take on it

[quick garden]

ok lemme get the detective hat and pro keyboard rq

[placid torrent]

And no takes are objective

[wooden sedge]

What

[wanton canopy]

Your basically saying all tower defense game are badly designed

Your logic is flawed

[placid torrent]

If an argument is based around a single opinion being the objectively right one, then the argument is pointless

I dont find magnos to be "bad game design"

I will never understand the magno hate crowd

[wooden sedge]

[wanton canopy]

Its making life easier in most cases

[placid torrent]

Not raising fingers but 99% of the time the people who dislike magnos are mobile/console users

[wooden sedge]

Because it sucks

[placid torrent]

And thats just "we're not able to magno so why can you"

[quick garden]

“Yes, MVP encourages carrying i never said that part was bad. But calling it good design just because it fixed solo-only farming is short-sighted. The current system doesnt promote teamwork, it promotes passiveness. One person plays, three can literally mecro or AFK, and everyone wins. That’s not engagement, that’s just reward inflation.”

also i wanna keep it short icl

really dont like deviating from reall purposes of a suggestion

[subtle epoch]

you do know even if u add the 10% total dmg

ppl r just gonna 🥭

said dmg

[wanton canopy]

Point is that theres no downside to anyone in leeching in this game

[placid torrent]

All 4 people ahk

[upbeat oyster]

Who cares if it's reward inflation

[subtle epoch]

during the leech

like

[wanton canopy]

The player who did the most damage gains more rewards

[upbeat oyster]

Or promotes passiveness

[wanton canopy]

the leecher gets what he wants

thats it

[upbeat oyster]

It gives people an approach to the game

[placid torrent]

I cant take ts seriously when the same person is also pushing for auto upgrade

[subtle epoch]

your point is that you want people to intreact during coop and not leech

but if you add 10% total dmg, people will just AHK place units

so you effectively add nothing

like

[placid torrent]

Maybe thats just me

[subtle epoch]

im so confused whats the point

you solve nothing

you just add a 10% total dmg req that makes a inconvient to players

[upbeat oyster]

You could compare the passivity of it to afk chamber

[placid torrent]

But how are you complaining about "promoting passiveness" whilst simultaneously pushing for auto upg like crazy

[subtle epoch]

like a certain handcuff gamemode

[quick garden]

Giving people a way to approach the game is fine. But when the most efficient approach becomes ‘do nothing and get carried,’ you’re no longer giving players options you’re guiding them toward passiveness. That’s when it stops being freedom and starts being a design flaw

[upbeat oyster]

Except you'd be better off being able to sit in and leech rather than afk chamber if you can at least be active enough to vote start

[placid torrent]

Which does fuck all btw all it does is prevent someone from playing full support

Fuck you if you dont have 3 monarchs ig

Since you aint getting 10% total damage otherwise

[upbeat oyster]

So you get carried for a little while, get some stuff, and maybe eventually you become the one that carries other leeches/newer players

[subtle epoch]

imagine leeching in portals and someone uses like

vsjw nuke

gl getting the dmg req

[upbeat oyster]

You're making a problem out a nonexistent one

[quick garden]

ur a level 203 player who literally mecro'd it all what do u know?

[placid torrent]

I dont want to

Why would i make life more difficult myself

Thats called stupidity

If i can make the grind less tedious, i will

It is hardly my concern if you arent able to do the same, and you complaining about me being able to use ahk while you cant is a nothing burger argument to me

[wanton canopy]

Worst part is that he likely had to grind for 90% of what he has

other than the traits

[subtle epoch]

ew, why do you air fry your chips

why dont you use a deep fryer

[placid torrent]

Yeah i did vsjw quest manually for the most part

Same for wl

Levels are just from challenge magnos

[subtle epoch]

why do you pour water from the tap
why do u not just unfiltered your water yourself from a lake

[placid torrent]

😭

Also levels dont mean jackshit i could have been level 1200 without having magnod a single time

[subtle epoch]

why do you buy chicken
why dont you just grow your own chicken and kill them

like

[quick garden]

“I’m not against helping new players or carrying teammates. That’s part of co-op. The issue is when the game turns doing nothing into the most efficient strategy. If the system rewards players just for showing up and pressing start — over and over — it’s no longer helping people grow. It’s teaching them that effort is optional.”

“You’re assuming people eventually grow out of leeching. But when there’s no pressure to participate and no downside to staying passive, many won’t. That’s not progression — that’s stagnation disguised as gameplay.”

[subtle epoch]

this is literally the same as
why do you 🥭
why dont you just play normally

why would i take a harder path, when a easier one is litearlly right there

[quick garden]

yo btw if ur getting annoyed feel free to take a break

[upbeat oyster]

Spoiler alert, we're playing a TD. Everything about the gameplay quickly turns to stagnation

[subtle epoch]

the thing is

nothing isnt the most efficent strategy.

actively playing AS the MVP is the best strat

[quick garden]

You're not wrong for using tools to make the grind easier. But when one platform needs external scripts to stay efficient while others can’t use them at all, that’s not a player problem—it’s a design imbalance. Console players aren’t asking to make it easier than PC, just fair. Auto-upgrade wouldn’t give console an edge—it would just close a gap.

[wooden sedge]

[placid torrent]

I can very much argue that auto upgrade also promotes lack of effort and passiveness

[upbeat oyster]

The MVP system was designed the way it was for a very specific reason, and trying to "fix" it by adding some sort of damage requirement for people to get involved in cuts out a large portion of the people who want to take advantage of/support the system the way it is

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

[placid torrent]

Yeah

Ive never once seen anyone complain about mvp system before this

Because it is literally a win win

[quick garden]

Yeah, TD games eventually slow down, but that doesn’t excuse designing a system where doing nothing becomes optimal. Stagnation from late-game grind is normal. Stagnation from never needing to participate is design failure. Those are two different things.
Stagnation is part of the grind rewarding it is the problem

[quick garden]

because i've only been like a developer for 2-3 days and looking from a developer perspectives it bad design from players its good thats why they wont complain

[placid torrent]

If a feature is liked by an overwhelming majority of the community

It is a good feature

[upbeat oyster]

I dunno man

If the devs are planning around the feature

And deliberately designed it the way they did

I'd say it's pretty fine design both from the player perspective and from the dev perspective.

[quick garden]

if they planned for the system to be a premium pay out farm and i got confirmation obv i wont be complaining

[quick garden]

Popularity doesn’t always mean good design. A feature can be widely liked and still be unhealthy for the game long-term. People like shortcuts, easy grinds, and free rewards — but that doesn’t mean those things are good for engagement, balance, or player growth.

[placid torrent]

Very much is

[upbeat oyster]

I don't see how it's a premium payout farm

If anything, the AFK chamber is literally the premium payout source

[subtle epoch]

nah MVP is a premium payout farm tbh

but it doesnt compare to afk chamber

[placid torrent]

If 99.99% of people agree that a certain feature is good, if the entire dev team agrees that the feature is good, if theres never been any negative reaction to the feature, then ill personally like to think its a good feature.

[subtle epoch]

psure the only time this has ever applied in the game history for uncap challenges

[placid torrent]

There is no objective "good" or "bad" in game design, but if i had to pick, the side that has more positive response is probably the good.

[subtle epoch]

which they shoulddd bring backkkkk pysephhhh

[placid torrent]

Especially when the positive response is orders of magnitudes greater than the negative response

The players are happy, the devs are happy. The game's economy is undamaged. Why change anything

[quick garden]

Widespread approval doesn’t make something objectively good it just means people like it. That’s not the same as it being healthy for the game long-term. A system can be popular because it's convenient or low-effort, but that convenience might come at the cost of depth, balance, or player engagement

[quick garden]

i mean it depends on how the devs designed it

[placid torrent]

What defines objective good then, your take on the matter?

[quick garden]

im thinking they designed it for ppl to compete for highest dmg possible but it backfired

so now its just a system that encourages leeching and discourages player from learning game mechanics

but well i did get what i want from that suggestion

[wanton canopy]

Which game mechanics exactly?

I'd like to hear that

[upbeat oyster]

No, they designed it to encourage leeching and carrying people

Like that was literally the thought process behind designing it

[quick garden]

they is so much i can type but i think thats enough for the day

[placid torrent]

The irrelevant-outside of portals typing chart ig

[knotty ridge]

The mvp legit could be less op for br/more op for portals but its fine the way it is
The current issue is there is ZERO difficulty in the game

If the events were hard you would look for supporters/dmg dealers, not leechers

[wanton canopy]

Theres not and thats the point

[placid torrent]

Adding a 10% damage requirement fixes that how

[quick garden]

well could have saved alot of time by saying that earlier

[placid torrent]

He did say it earlier

[quick garden]

yeah just wait tommorow ill give u a very good response

[quick garden]

wait he did?

didnt see that whoops

[wooden sedge]

To fix all the problems all they have to do is buff Diego

[placid torrent]

Thats not always a good thing lol, especially not when you need to run the stage 1k times

Nobody liked aa winter event

[upbeat oyster]

That was literally the first thing I ended up saying in that last thread

[knotty ridge]

Thats more of a rates issue

[quick garden]

didnt see that because i was battling ppl and ignoring the ppl i wasnt arguing with
but sorry dawg

[placid torrent]

It could be lowered by 10x and itd still be a disliked change

Because nobody wants to do 100s of runs where youre forced to pay attention

For obvious reasons

[knotty ridge]

Can we get this guy blacklisted for suggestions

[quick garden]

suggestion black list is a fucking joke

[knotty ridge]

Guess what, you prob played over 1k stages on this game

The issue is not playing a stage 100 times, its being easy/boring asf

Thats why mostly 🥭 exists

[subtle epoch]

hes played only 2hrs

of the game

💔

[wooden sedge]

Who

[subtle epoch]

oh

wrong guy

[quick garden]

well good to know i have rested my case and proven this devs game design aspect where it sucks sucks hard

[subtle epoch]

but the dude complaining

only played 2hrs

so i dont understand like

half these complaints.

[molten obsidian]

yh u been here for a while what vid are u even making lol

[placid torrent]

The stage being challenging WOULD NOT remedy this

[quick garden]

dw u will see it soon tbh got the answers i needed

[wanton canopy]

LOL

[quick garden]

yeah that was everyone else arguing with me lol

[molten obsidian]

i think he referring to you

[knotty ridge]

Not just challenging, needs to be fun ofc, rotating maps/enemies and different modifiers/event cards

[quick garden]

nuh uh

ait imma go fuck around with what i have left in my day

[placid torrent]

MIGHT be referring to him

[placid torrent]

I dont think people find wl fun and theyre kinda that

However they work since theyre a one in 2 months thing

[knotty ridge]

Wl is def fun after ~floor 90

The issue is all before that is easy asf sadly

Would be nice a nightmare difficulty to clear the easy/boring floors faster

But prob not since its just 50 floors and every 2 updates

[quick garden]

nah dont worry not gonna have to deal with this shit when i create a game

[molten obsidian]

ok buddy

[wooden sedge]

You are not making a game

[quick garden]

well guess what thats what all the haters say

[placid torrent]

Youre getting reset last week before update buddy 👿

[wooden sedge]

What that’s what

[quick garden]

got already 12 mfs telling me to give up which is more motivation bro 😈

[upbeat oyster]

i have no power to do that 🥀

[knotty ridge]

Idk if i wanna waste +30h for just a shiny wl unit

The mode is fun but the rewards aint helpin

[placid torrent]

Who does

[molten obsidian]

yeah bro when ur successful and surpass this game
dont forgot me as ur number one supporter bro

[quick garden]

yeah dw one day it will happen

this mf is a d1 hater get ur ass out of here 😦

[molten obsidian]

dont worry he gonna watch and learn 🙂

[subtle epoch]

lunge a d1 glazer bro

😭

[molten obsidian]

nah im supporting my dawg bro

d1 supporter

yall js d1 hating bro

[quick garden]

nah its cool they js a bunch of paid actors

[molten obsidian]

well whoever is hiring doesent know how to spend their money 😢

[stiff urchin]

Bro

As someone who's currently grinding denji in als

This is the more tiresome and annoying grind

Don't even get me started on how trash and repetitive the cid grind is in als

Luckily av isn't remotely as bad as als

Also I love how your only 2 weeks into als and are already comparing the "grind"

Just wait till you get to late game

[amber spruce]

I didn't find denji grind to be that bad
Cid was tho

[stiff urchin]

Cid is hell and back

[amber spruce]

I prob wouldn't even have him if afk chamber didn't give treasure

[stiff urchin]

I've done every quest but the evolve 4 summer unuts

[stiff urchin]

Afk chamber does?

How much

[amber spruce]

I dont really remember but 1-2 nights was enough for the quest

But I do have both vip for better rewards

[wispy bronze]

they added trading

and murdered all values

with dupe problems

yba had 3 big dupes

[stiff urchin]

Ahhh

Im cooked

I have to manually grind

😦

[stiff urchin]

How much corals and treasures did you get in 1 night tho?

[amber spruce]

I think like 7k of each

the coral droprate is awful but treasure isnt bad

[wispy bronze]

is it worth grind portals or be afk for kaguya

[stiff urchin]

Yeah

7k coral for that long is absoloute shambolic

[stiff urchin]

Do the other when you cant do the other

[wispy bronze]

Aight🐢

[prisma belfry]

how do u expect to like a game(als) that looks like shit

[pine solar]

It doesn’t even look that bad

😭

Gameplay idk cause i don’t play

But the gui looks nice man

[prisma belfry]

compared to av it does

[pine solar]

Av’s Gui doesn’t even look that much better

[wooden sedge]

The new av gui sucks

[placid torrent]

The new gui is lowkey worse lol

Als' gui is fire

[pine solar]

Yeah and that too

I will not understand Als gui hate

It looks pretty nice

[wooden sedge]

People will find any reason to dog on Als

[dry plinth]

Lets compare the time U talk bout from 2x in als even tho it has 2x it takes 4-5mins but that's not the main part here it's that doing the portal only gives U half a multi or 1 multi on the banner while av has no 2x but gives 2 multis each portal run along with additional currency through chests and it takes 6-8mins to clear the chest have a chance to give 3k-6k which is another 2-4multis on the banner

[placid torrent]

Yeah but there is also the fact that you need like 500 total summons to get cid in als

While on average youd need 20k for kaguya

So als is still faster, which is expected

Av portals are just fine

Dont think they need changing

[dry plinth]

But cid won't last that long in als as "meta" or "broken"

[placid torrent]

Probably not

Some units have lasted a while though

Asta remains meta

Then again vanguards in av (besides diavolo) remain meta permanently for the most part

[wooden sedge]

Yes he will most likely

[placid torrent]

Nah

[dry plinth]

Yes but newer same element units can replace asta

[placid torrent]

Kinda not really

[wooden sedge]

Most of the power creep in Als hasn’t really came up

The past updates only had 1 meta character that was worth to get

[placid torrent]

Well its because bray cant balance for shit

Units are either top5 or useless

[wooden sedge]

Eh not really

[placid torrent]

Yes really

[wooden sedge]

Not really

[placid torrent]

Theres no in between lets be real

Dante is top tier, everyone else fucking sucks

[wooden sedge]

Most of the game is easy asf

So you really don’t need top tier units to beat it

[placid torrent]

Cid and law are top tier, everyone else is ass. Actually nami is decent but shes just decent

[wooden sedge]

You can have avatar sjw and he will solo

[molten obsidian]

i could argue but im tired asf and not in the mood so think however u want im proceeding with my day

[placid torrent]

Als was doing well but this upd was kinda ass cant lie. Also it proves once again that bray doesnt watch shit so.

[thick pawn]

can i get a tldr

ts too long to read

[dry plinth]

Other than the first point I have no problems with your second point since I'm not a console player and on the third point I agree with it.

[wooden sedge]

Als better than av rn

That’s basically it

[thick pawn]

no like why better

what they doing different

[wooden sedge]

The grind and more content

And you can use Als on a old device

[thick pawn]

idk seems like slop

but the last point yea

av needs optimization

[placid torrent]

No this upd was ass

[wooden sedge]

Haven’t played it so idk

[placid torrent]

I can see optimization making it better for mobile players tho

But since im not one

[subtle epoch]

psure asta remains meta because how hes made

2T nuke + 2 of any status in the game

pretty broken

[placid torrent]

High dps and not that expensive too

[wispy bronze]

What happen this upd?

[placid torrent]

Every character besides one is ass

And they just did random bs with dante and vergil

[wispy bronze]

Damn

[placid torrent]

Played nero theme over dante

And called nero angelo "devil trigger"