Buff cid & counterpart passives

[toxic jetty]

Make cids takedown passive not reset when swapping ->> transfer over 10% of cids takedown passive over to John Smith and 2% of John's boss dmg passive to cid maxing out at 10% = boss ->> 20% = takedown so people stop complaining

[nimble thistle]

Please ensure that your suggestion follows the Suggestion Rules in #1351363086409531392, or it may be DELETED.
Once this suggestion is older than 2 weeks, it will be locked.
-# You can read more about this change in the pinned suggestion post.

[toxic jetty]

Bump

[pastel knoll]

Is his own damage not good enough ?

Also i dont think they wanted this unit to have the same swap mechanic ideology as that of goku

Goku is built on the idea of consistentl swapping

But for cid its more like you can keep him in one form for a long time and swap in the future when needed

[karmic pebble]

The entire point of this unit is that you either choose between damage or nuke.

[pastel knoll]

Swapping is not en passant

[pastel knoll]

Yeah

[rancid smelt]

Cid probably needs some sort of buff but this idea just goes against the fundamental idea of how you're supposed to use him

[pastel knoll]

exactly

he's not supposed to be getting swapped constantly

[toxic jetty]

Bro lowkey

These mfs

Want cids entire passive to transfer over

I think cid is just fine

John Smith is already pretty op with the passives he has

It's perfectly balanced out

Literally been tryna say that would be to op

If they did that

John Smith already has a build up of dmg on enemies every attack

What more could you want

[pastel knoll]

ooh that's nice then

but then why make the suggestion if ur completely fine with it tho

[toxic jetty]

Reas

"SO people stop complaining"

I made another suggestion that would be satisfactory

[hollow sail]

hmm, weren't you glazing cid saying he doesn't need any buffs because he has 100k dps or something like that? Odd of you to create a suggestion that is about buffing him

[pastel knoll]

and im saying that that's not a reason for you to have to make a suggestion

if someone wants a buff they'll make a suggestion

who cares if people wanna cry

they can make their own suggestion

dont clog up suggestions when you know you dont want this suggestion anyways

[toxic jetty]

Well I don't need a reason from you

[pastel knoll]

🙏 not what i meant but okei valid

just let the ppl complain theyll figure it out soon

[lament sonnet]

Nah, I think people just don’t like Cid because there’s no real reason to use him. Vergil and Esdeath clear, but since people can’t get Esdeath anymore, they lose out on that. VSJW is still clearly better, so that checks out too. Aizen is always better for MVP robbing. John is excellent—definitely top 10 at least, thanks to being Monarch with around 63k DPS using his entry buff, 40% stack, and a god-roll bird. (not including stacking 2nd passive)

Lord of Shadows is… honestly very mid. He only hits around 45k DPS, not even counting the max 50% buff from his third passive (0.5% damage buff per 1% HP missing—so usually around 25% on average except in Infinite). His nuke takes 230 waves of Infinite to do like 80 million damage if properly using him effectively (enemies have 300 mil hp on some late stage inf maps, I get it, “he’s not a boss killer, john is”), and it resets back to 0 after that. (mon Yhwach hits 100k+ and much easier to get)

I’d rather use Diavolo, Gogeta, Vergil, Dante, VSJW, and potentially Buu over Cid overall but he lowkey doesn’t very necessarily need a buff, but John would also be fine and definitely top 7-8 if he got one and Lord of Shadows would potentially be up there as well

Further evidence to sustain my message, also people call Kid Buu mid with him still doing roughly 2x Lord Of Shadows dps, so there are a majority of people who don’t really grasp the amount of dps we are getting

This is pre birb / black spirit as well

Most people also are just complaining because they think every new unit should be top 5-7 at bare minimum even without their situational reliance

Also just saying even if Cid ever did get a buff, something like giving John a 1-3 second stun (could even have a cool effect like snare) would make him top 5 instantly probably too strong but literally just add esdeath and he’s doing the same thing but better anyways, and Lord of Shadows could use a small 20% dmg buff or a rework to how his nuke functions and he would be top 6-7 as well imo (HE literally spam ties us up in raid)

[eternal geyser]

I agree

Thanks for this

Needed some hope

[lament sonnet]

I also agree ✅

[ivory lantern]

idk why people are so against buffing cid

like im certain the only ones that think hes fine as is are people that havent actually tried using him in practice

[lament sonnet]

Most people think 60k dps is the highest dps in game

He’s objectively fine, but not “overpowered”

[fiery steeple]

Oh goodness we bringing out the dps charts

Maximum sodium detected

[lament sonnet]

Have to bring out something besides “read the passives”

[ivory lantern]

its not even that the dps is bad its just that hes extremely inconsistent and his passives contradict eachother

[lament sonnet]

He’s very situational yeah

Almost no real reason to use him over other units

[ivory lantern]

literally

utilizing the swap mechanic softlocks half of his lord of shadows dps with the benefit of a nuke, but if u want a nuke then it'd be better to use vsjw or ichigo

[lament sonnet]

People also claim that his nuke is the best in game for infinite, yet they forget gilgamesh auto executes any enemies at 10% hp which is miles better for infinite in that regard anyways

Not to mention his nuke resetting on use..? Imagine spending 2 hours stacking him just to reset it and it can’t even kill the enemies because they out-scale you by wave 100 lol

Coming from someone with monarch, godly and birdified John 🔥

[native coral]

we av players cannot read

[lament sonnet]

Nah just why use him over Vergil, Kid buu, or even dante + vsjw in infinite

[ivory lantern]

state whats wrong with the suggestion ❌
insult the community ✅

[lament sonnet]

He’s an infinite unit and the bug hunters all told me he isn’t meant to be a boss killer

[ivory lantern]

so peak

[lament sonnet]

Yeah idk, you put a suggestion with detail and word and the best they give is insulting you

Ask why you would use him over other units? “Read the passive”. Oh he has less dps anyways? “read the passive”.

[fiery steeple]

His kit is clunky

Nuff said

[lament sonnet]

I asked the bug hunters what his nuke is for, they told me to spam swap him and build up dmg to kill enemies

can’t do that in progressive

infinite his dmg is so bad

but yeah idk sure

[ivory lantern]

the entire "john smith does higher dmg to higher hp" and "lord of shadows does more damage to lower hp" is completely useless since u need to actually build up the takedowns first

[lament sonnet]

John is good and his high dmg to higher hp is good, but lord of shadows is completely useless

it maxed at 50% only as well because it’s confirmed 0.5% per missing hp

so it’s not even 100%

not even 75%

[ivory lantern]

insanity

and besides doing higher damage to lower hp enemies is only useful for enemies that already have high hp (like bosses) but at that point you would just use john

it literally makes no sense

[lament sonnet]

People will still call him top 3 even if he did 45 dmg because of his passives lmao

I’ll give it to the devs though

he might be a demon for PVP

[fiery steeple]

How so

Many better endgame options

[lament sonnet]

For the fact John is goated with his nuke, lord is trash

not getting used

John though

[fiery steeple]

Single target dps isnt needed

Vergil automatically just becomes bis for endgame

[lament sonnet]

In the world of pvp yeah, unless you didn’t really watch the youtubers showcasing

But yes vergil will be better regardless

John will outclass Aizen for pvp though

[fiery steeple]

How come?

[lament sonnet]

too expensive and too little boss dmg

I don’t think PVP will be farming total damage dealt

[fiery steeple]

Aizen has like the highest burst dps in the game besides maybe vergil

[lament sonnet]

Yeah he only does roughly 7 mil dmg with wall at max

John does 9.3 mil in his total range with nuke

[fiery steeple]

Wait

Nvm

Vergil is going to be terrible

Because of cc immunity

[lament sonnet]

That is also true

yeah

[fiery steeple]

Idk

The fact you can use EVERY modifier in the game without restrictions seems dumb asf

[lament sonnet]

Vergil still does do very good dps outside of cc

like 50k dps on average?

[fiery steeple]

At that point you should just be using dante though

[lament sonnet]

Yeah dante will clear when no cc

[fiery steeple]

The meta is either going to be dragon sphere

Or orehime

[lament sonnet]

There will also be excluding units too

[fiery steeple]

Ban phase seems likely but not officially confirmed

Ban system also will be harder to implement

[short drift]

wait what

[fiery steeple]

If you’re required to basically use kinnua

[short drift]

pvp wont have any cc?

[fiery steeple]

Theres a modifier for cc immunity

[fading oasis]

nah

[short drift]

oh ight

i forgot about that

[fading oasis]

so vergil and dante will be insanely meta and gogeta too

[short drift]

how does the modifers work

is it 1 per enemy?

[fiery steeple]

Gogeta will only be meta if you do full dragon sphere comp

[fading oasis]

i mean its a good comp

especially with hercules

[fiery steeple]

No its dumb you can stack multiple modifiers

[fading oasis]

he can crit

[fiery steeple]

Yes

[short drift]

whats the catch?

[fiery steeple]

Upd 5 enjoyers eating good with pvp

[short drift]

extra yen?

[lament sonnet]

Real

[short drift]

i assume

[fading oasis]

then vegito can rupture and goku has insane cc

[fiery steeple]

Just yen cost

[fading oasis]

oh damn

[short drift]

right

[fiery steeple]

Dragon sphere comp will be the best in the game

No doubt

[fading oasis]

nah

still gonna be bleach comp

[fiery steeple]

With who

[fading oasis]

yhwach yamamoto and aizen

also

[lament sonnet]

Ngl doubt aizen will be there

[fading oasis]

choi will be op

[fiery steeple]

Yuha instantly gets counter by mind control

[lament sonnet]

Choi and Yhwach yeah

[fading oasis]

so we need to get choi

instantly

omd

i just realized that

[fiery steeple]

Ethereal choi will be very good yes

[fading oasis]

im infuriated

[fading oasis]

deadeye

[lament sonnet]

deadeye

always ngl

[fiery steeple]

Or yeah thats what i meant

[fading oasis]

yeah they gotta lowkey buff ethereal

[fiery steeple]

But dragon sphere synergy is just SSS tier

The only viable comp imo

[ivory lantern]

after thinking about it i think john smith and lord of shadows should have their passives switched completely

[fiery steeple]

You will get shit on with any other comp

[fading oasis]

the meta comp will probably be an jnfinite comp

so choi

is insane

[fiery steeple]

No you need a VERY STRONG earlygame

Which automatically limits the options to gohan or orehime

[ivory lantern]

its more in line with cid's personality as the lord of shadows to egotistically attack enemies at their strongest, and it would make more sense for an assassin like john smith to attack enemies when they're at their weakest/off guard

[fading oasis]

dbz doesnt have that though

[lament sonnet]

Gohan + John early game will be insane ngl

[fiery steeple]

Gohan

[fading oasis]

so lagshooter will be meta

dub

[lament sonnet]

💀💀

[fiery steeple]

Orehime will be interesting to use in a flex comp

[kind isle]

can we all agree that whoever's writing these should never cook again

[fiery steeple]

More words = better

Classic

[lament sonnet]

absolutely

[kind isle]

tons of redundant info

[fading oasis]

why they so specific on a roblox atd

[fiery steeple]

Theyre not being specific theyre just repeating the passive descriptions and saying “very good”

[fading oasis]

i do jot need to know his exact cone size just show the image bruh 💔

[kind isle]

;-;

[lament sonnet]

all this useless information bro

[fading oasis]

lets see buu

longest one

[fiery steeple]

Theres no theorycrafting at all in those descriptions its just copy paste

[kind isle]

surprisingly not as long as gokus

[fading oasis]

wtf

[fiery steeple]

Gohan, buu, hercool, gogeta, farms will be bis for pvp

Replace gogeta with todo if needed

[kind isle]

this why the wiki tl buns

[ivory lantern]

whoever makes those genuinely writes like hes handing in an essay for school

it genuinely can get tldr'd to 1/5 of the words

[solid turret]

Wat da fauk

[fiery steeple]

Actually you might need to sac speedwagon for toji

[fading oasis]

todo will be godly tier once pvp is here

[kind isle]

I can remember the last time I used Todo and Sakura, unlike Okarun or Rengoku

[fiery steeple]

Theres also regen too

Too many modifiers bruh

[short drift]

Doesn’t

Vegito

Handle that

[solid turret]

Super Vegito

[short drift]

Kinda

[solid turret]

Super*

Vegito

[fiery steeple]

Vegito is very endgame though

[ivory lantern]

todo is genuinely a good support for anything solo, idk why people downplay him so much

[fiery steeple]

Like ultra endgame

[fading oasis]

his dps is low

[short drift]

Right

[fading oasis]

thats why

[kind isle]

if he was a legendary instead of mythic, people would appreciate him more

[lament sonnet]

gonna take too long building swaps and not to mention cost the same as gogeta, familiars also probably banned in pvp

[fading oasis]

numbers = da best

[short drift]

Well you can always bring alucard

[solid turret]

-# Plain Bread is good

[short drift]

Good cc, dmg amp and stops regen

[lament sonnet]

traitless + trait pvp as well

[short drift]

Cause he gets full aoe pretty early on

[fiery steeple]

Yeah basically pointless in bringing goku since he only becomes useable in ultra late game

[fading oasis]

just bring kisuke bro

[solid turret]

Ew

[raven minnow]

ew

[solid turret]

Not that thug

[short drift]

Is kisuke not just a worse alucard

[lament sonnet]

alucard clears bruh 💔

[ivory lantern]

alucard is unfortunately significantly better

[short drift]

Or am i missing something

[fading oasis]

they buffed alucars cause kisuke was better

[fiery steeple]

Actually its hard to say

[fading oasis]

lolll

[fiery steeple]

Maybe the flex comp ends up being more viable

With orehime

[lament sonnet]

yeah better because he couldn’t apply bleed that well with monarch

[short drift]

8 second bleed is pretty good man

[lament sonnet]

now he’s goated

nerfed his overall dps but buffed his support 3x

[short drift]

Nah its because there was atleast 2 suggestions a day about a alucard buff

[lament sonnet]

no one used him for his dps anyways

[fading oasis]

they buffed him cause kisuke was outperforming him

[fiery steeple]

They nerfed kisuke as well

From having perma wounded

[short drift]

“Was a bug”

[fading oasis]

my goat kisuke was shitting on alucard till that buff

[short drift]

I don’t know atp

[fading oasis]

its aight though

[fading oasis]

dont buff this fraud

[solid turret]

what a boring stage tdy tho
-# just like the last one…

[kind isle]

anything new?

[fiery steeple]

Orehime alucard toji deadeye vsjw farms

Potentially swap speedwagon for todo

[fading oasis]

every enemy will have challenger 100%

[fiery steeple]

Vro

[short drift]

What is challenger

[fiery steeple]

Idk anymore

[fading oasis]

ngl they hit yamamoto with a stray cause of vsje

vsjw

[fiery steeple]

They eat summon and gain hp

[solid turret]

Not rlly
-# imma rewatch it later cuz I was at school

[short drift]

????

[fading oasis]

bros weaker than choi and now his summons dont work

💔😂

[fiery steeple]

Heal from summons instead of taking dmg basically

[short drift]

Why is there no limitations on the amount of modifiers

Besides yen

[fiery steeple]

Idk i was telling pyseph that earlier

And he said “too many factors will confuse people”

[short drift]

Cause at some point you can’t counter everything and its not like uou can change teams mid match to adapt

[fading oasis]

yeah and rupture does not bupass this

[fiery steeple]

Yeah that sucks

[fiery steeple]

Idk

[fading oasis]

i was doing a god portal bro

😭😭

i was deadass so confused earlier today

why it was inmortal

they need to add astd notifications

[fiery steeple]

Idk when they are set on how they want to do things its kinda hard to make them change their mind without 10 billion spotlights telling them to revert the change

[fading oasis]

they just appear randomly like energy drain and that slug thingy

[short drift]

I mean whats the gameplan behind pvp, you can have the most versatile team but you will always have a weakness which can be exploited by the enemies, so how are you supposed to adapt to that

I mean ig its a good test of game knowledge

Cause you would have to know the weakness of the units

[fiery steeple]

Theres like ten modifiers and a lvl 35 can connect the dots and see “oh this guy doesnt have x so let me just spam y”

No intricate game knowledge needed there

[short drift]

How do they do it in btd

[fiery steeple]

Spam modifier they cant counter spam hp scaling

Repeat

[fiery steeple]

Presets

[short drift]

Yeah thats what i was thinking

[short drift]

Presets?

Like for teams and enemies?

[fiery steeple]

Like there is a list of enemies to choose from

Each with their own preset properties

[short drift]

Ohhhhh

So what made btd pvp so good

Or was it bad

[fiery steeple]

Its fine

I dont think its necessarily peak

But its fine

[short drift]

Ive heard that it was one of the pinnacle of gaming

[fiery steeple]

Yeah id like to have a word with whoever said that

The base game is good

And thats what then carries the pvp mode

[short drift]

Man hopefully they just do pvp right

[fiery steeple]

I have my doubts now

[short drift]

Cause they need a dub

[fiery steeple]

After my convo with pyseph and pery

They need a dev on the team exclusively contracted for sandbox balancing

Cus rn how shit currently is aint it

[short drift]

I thought they had a team for that

[fading oasis]

and the bugss

omd

[fiery steeple]

Before it was aandre

But idk now

[short drift]

Its like

The testers and someone else

[fiery steeple]

Oh naur ☠️

[short drift]

Mr.Anonymous

Balancer

[fiery steeple]

Testers “balancing” the game when they have a grand total of one day to see the new content

[kind isle]

Testers just want to get early access to new content

[rustic belfry]

I know I ain't hearin' tester diss in here

[rustic belfry]

But also yeah, this is kinda the case usually. For the most part, testers aren't really directed on balance, it's more just making sure that things work and that reports are made. There's not always enough time to fix everything or things get missed, or things end up breaking when stuff gets moved to live servers during maintenance. A lotta shit goes wrong sometimes, but "balance" generally isn't much of a focus unless there's some glaring issues once we get access to testing things.

Though there is genuinely a good deal of testing the actual unit balance from the balancers, so that is actually worked with

[fiery steeple]

Yeah but idk theres some glaring examples of lack of testing (and yes i will shit on launch odyssey to give an example)

Certainly not everything is as broken on release

But i cant help but feel pvp is a larger project than anything theyve done previously

Consequently meaning that its most likely going to have some major issues in the sandbox on launch

Given how stuff has occurred in the past

[rustic belfry]

Oh I'll shit on launch odyssey too

It had a single day of gameplay/balance testing, the main bulk was just making modifiers works

As for PvP, that's why 5.5 was also light, because a majority of the dev work has been focused on PvP and 6.0 ever since then.

I heavily disliked launch Odyssey, though. That's why I was so keen to make an overhaul to the gamemode and I'm still trying to refine balance changes and get them pushed to testing so I can feel them out

[raven minnow]

buff uryu

[rustic belfry]

[toxic jetty]

I mean he does have a use

Extra dmg towards mobs and bosses

And it stacks

[lament sonnet]

14 hits max btw

[toxic jetty]

Wait until they add a broken mode

Gon be crying for cid

[lament sonnet]

Yeah he will be good in event modes with modifiers that do things like giving him extra range but idk

Pvp he might have a use

but currently he is only really used on act 2 ruined city

[toxic jetty]

Can prob be used for tournaments is people try him out atleast

He could do more dmg on traitless tournaments

Cuz of his dmg stacking

[lament sonnet]

He loses to several other units even with his stacking dmg unfortunately

[toxic jetty]

Meh he's goat

Yall just don't see the vision

[lament sonnet]

Lord of shadows as a whole is why people want him buffed honestly

[toxic jetty]

Lord of shadows?

Take down passive?

[lament sonnet]

Yes, the 50k max full aoe dps with all passives fully stacked

that isn’t even stun immune

That’s with it maxed

[toxic jetty]

They can lowkey revise it

And share the passives

Between swaps

By small amounts

But devs ain't doing allat

[lament sonnet]

The passive on bottom also caps at 50% and not 99% as well

doesn’t state that though

John is fine realistically, 65k dps max with bird and like 4 hits off

Lord of shadows loses to yhwach and aizen both for infinite imo

[toxic jetty]

I wonder how much dmg John Smith will do with 100% crit and his passives

[lament sonnet]

John has roughly 30k dps more at his max potential than Lord of shadows

[lament sonnet]

I got monarch John in raid fully stacked to about 1.3 mil dmg per punch on Lord of shadows after about 6 minutes ngl

[toxic jetty]

That's ain't bad

[solid turret]

When will this thug buff Uryu???