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edgy gobletBOT
tall mesa
are you asking to buff vergil?
Not exactly, I'd say he could be even debuffed in favor of him gaining an access to his given mechanics, just looks like a loss imo
But basically yeah? I mean, countermeasures can be taken to even it out
brave frost
if you are asking for a buff, then i disagree
tall mesa
I think I would put it this way: Make his follow-up accessible but lower his damage if its an overkill
without the need of other stuff
but feel free to debate me!
ill listen
brave frost
and a rebalance is never happening lol, if something is not fundamentally broken with his kit or he does not break things in the game then its highly unnessasry
brave frost
I think I would put it this way: Make his follow-up accessible but lower his dam...
yeah but whats the reasoning?
why would virgil need this "rebalance"
tall mesa
Well, worth a shot I guess? But the reasoning is that he doesn't really scale to Dante
in multiple ways
Dante gets easy access to everything he was given in the passives, Vergil needs a synergy
He is still strong, but that doesnt make much sense to me
brave frost
i mean i don't play the game anymore all i know is that vergil and dante are both top meta for damage
tall mesa
again, not a problem of damage as much as it is about the mechanics, less satisfying seemingly
brave frost
and if hes already top meta i don't see a point in rebalancing him
brave frost
again, not a problem of damage as much as it is about the mechanics, less satisf...
?
less satisfying?
tall mesa
In simpler terms, but I can elaborate if you want me to
brave frost
please do
frozen cliff
so why do you want buff him?
he has 136k dps in dt form now,
do you know how busted that will be for PvP?
brave frost
something about not satisfying
frozen cliff
he is talking about a "rebalance"
his rebalance is probably worse
tall mesa
itsnot exactly a buff nor a nerf
brave frost
his rebalance is probably worse
i have NO idea if its good or not
tall mesa
something about not satisfying
ill elaborate later
it just takes a bit to type out im sorry 😭
brave frost
alr
frozen cliff
"dante takes way less hits to get his dt"
tall mesa
his rebalance is probably worse
I mean, I dont really suggest to take away anything from him unless its too mucht oadd
frozen cliff
vergil only need two follow up attacks to enter his dt form
dante's dt only lasts for 24s
tardy dust
is this a suggestion to buff vergil or am i missing something
brave frost
is this a suggestion to buff vergil or am i missing something
"rebalance"
tardy dust
"rebalance"
i think he doesnt really need to be touched
if you meet his requirements hes soaring with the highest dps in the game
brave frost
i think he doesnt really need to be touched
i was sayin
tardy dust
you can easily fix the dt issue by simply using his 2nd passive or the new familiar, the follow up attacks count
tardy dust
i was sayin
im not fan of dmc but the units cool to me, + hes extremely powerful 
tall mesa
Dante's follow-ups are consistent and they dont require you to have any other units in the play, the thing is that there are criterias that I just dont see a reason for to access him
So just tweaking it a little would make sense to me, I don't know
Again, its probably too much work for something that isn't necessary on paper, but I also wanna see if other people would get where im coming from with this point
tardy dust
Dante's follow-ups are consistent and they dont require you to have any other un...
the thing is that they're both balanced around having another unit to satiate the need for it or not
vergil's dps with his follow ups is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than dante using his
dante's follow ups have both a less chance and less damage output in comparison
i dont really think tweaking is needed to either of their kits, in fact to me both of them are extremely powerful
depending on the usage you want for them, id say they're pretty equal overall ngl
tall mesa
But wouldn't Dante's lack of need to have another unit present make him more long-lasting on the long run? The problem is that by adding Deadeye you're basically making him throw out attacks consecutively, chaining his DT in 4 seconds
So this need to have one slot taken away by a stunner/freezer or rely on a teammate with it adds inconvenience that I feel is somewhat unnecessary
I do think that you're right, that on the right ground Vergil works meticulously, but tweaking I believe is needed just so he doesn't require any more than Dante does, because it just feels like there is no particular reason for that "stunned/frozen" requirement in the first place, feels like a bit of an extra
And that damage-nerfing suggestion is just an example, I'm sure there are better solutions to even it out if the lack of this previously mentioned requirement makes it over-the-top
Sorry for the length of text
Also, do you think that Dante is better than Vergil overall, given most of the present gamemodes? Most people seem to claim so without any arguments, so I feel like the majority is one-sided about it. You have a fair point about calling them pretty equal, but I rarely see people consider that
Maybe that's just the influence of the tierlist, though
frozen cliff
Also, do you think that Dante is better than Vergil overall, given most of the p...
did you create a suggestion regarding a rebalance when you don't even use the units yourself or play the game in general?
tall mesa
did you create a suggestion regarding a rebalance when you don't even use the un...
I did use them, the latter messages I think highlight the main point
frozen cliff
so far, all i've been reading is that you're showing hints that you don't play the game or don't know how they work
tall mesa
I got both the units and used them around for a week or so, but most of my points stem from the fact that no one really considers Vergil a stronger pick when put up to Dante. I dont personally think either are weak, again, this was previously mentioned, the whole point of a suggestion doesn't come from me not knowing mechanics, it's the opposite; i'm trying to offer something that would avoid that mechanics that, I feel like, is not needed in general, which in the first place requires me to have a general knowledge on them
Yes, I don't know about the new familiar because I didn't really play on the new update, so maybe that's some new game-changer, but having to use multiple additions to a unit to get the full extent of his arsenal just seems like something that makes no sense to me for multiple reasons
Thanks for your criticism, though, feel free to ask anything that you found confusing
Oh yeah, my bad, Leminsuka here mentioned there that they are pretty equal, but thats the first time ive seen it being mentioned, so that's why I put it up in the first place
But also I guess since so far everyone sees this as an unnecessary/bad suggestion, I'll probably forget about it soon enough. Thanks everyone for debating me, actually helps me with understanding the stronger points of the unit.
tardy dust
But wouldn't Dante's lack of need to have another unit present make him more lon...
it depends on the context, both have theire own strengths over the other and I believe have equivalent longevity (not to mention bringing a cc unit isnt the biggest downside of all time)
him requiring more than dante does to operate him is just because he has higher potential to have a great impact on the game, higher dps is the outcome of that balancing
tall mesa
I've just seen the new familiar, that does change it a lot
Though, it's not exactly a place for it but
what about the doppelganger positioning? Do you know if its supposed to be this way
tardy dust
Also, do you think that Dante is better than Vergil overall, given most of the p...
i always leaned towards them being equal because in reality they have certain things over another
Vergil
-Higher potential output
-Usable before upgrade 2
Dante
-Better at early game is you can reach upgrade 2
-Only requires solo usage
-Deadeye is a much more valid trait
tall mesa
or if its a bug
tardy dust
They have their strengths and downsides, that's what I take from it
tardy dust
what about the doppelganger positioning? Do you know if its supposed to be this ...
It is, the Doppelganger attacks the same unit that Vergil does
tall mesa
So nothing would really change if he was standing next to him
I just saw some people complain on the doppelganger being a mile away, but it seems like it doesnt affect anything aside from just looking odd
Another out of topic question
tardy dust
So nothing would really change if he was standing next to him
I just saw some pe...
Nop
tall mesa
in a theoretical scenario, what synergy would work best for Vergil to reach his full output potential? I mentioned before not playing on the update, and people mentioned that having Katakuri makes a generous difference in Vergil
That includes both familiars and units, what would you use for him?
long torrent
Esdeath and todo
tardy dust
in a theoretical scenario, what synergy would work best for Vergil to reach his ...
Esdeath with the black spirit familiar to min max dt time (I’m excluding a full potential birb familiar)
This is what maximises him without other outside units to move him around or etc
Katakuri’s buff to Vergil is quite small, since he doesn’t apply stun all that frequently