[Warning] If You're Going to Add Trading, Do It RIGHT.

[uneven reef]

LOL

[south glen]

⭐️

Rub it for the smell

🔥

[thick bane]

actually nvm deleted cause what if AV gets copyrighted from this spongebob image...

[errant cloak]

Yeah this is definitely a huge problem but I just didn't want everyone's work to be undermined, a huge part of the community still doesn't mango, I would've liked another solution to this problem but there isn't much choices

[ornate wave]

As long as they don’t add a currency like anime defenders, I think we’ll be fine

[errant cloak]

What about more than 1 requirement but none of them are that hefty to prevent more than 1 problem

1. Level requirement to prevent straight up p2w
2. Questline for like 5 stages with unique elements and stuff to prevent bots
3. Finish Stage 4/5/6 of the story to prevent bots (Yeah this will still be mangoable but way it'd have to be a way more advanced one)
4. Level requierment to prevent p2w, like 30 or something

[ornate wave]

Also, don’t a lot of people have multiple Subaru’s and Gilgameshes?

How is that going to work?

[real estuary]

Really good suggestion but playtime is usually not a good idea I think instead make it level up 100 plus a stage which can only be beat with actual progressed units

[real estuary]

They won’t have much trade value

[carmine rampart]

he and ragna and gil will have a lower value than other units ig

[ornate wave]

If trading was added now, Subaru would probably be one of the most valuable units

Since he’s the best buff character

But it’s probably going to much added much later, so that won’t happen

[carmine rampart]

next to hakura rin tho but subaru wouldnt be the most valuable unit. Just because his evo item got duped through bug fixes and ppl could join his portal for a "short" time

[ornate wave]

Oh

[errant cloak]

yesn't
Good unit but bad scarcity meaning people will have too much spare to trade him

[ornate wave]

Dark mage might be like ragna

But probably not

Lucy is probably going to be worth a decent amount too

[carmine rampart]

he still will have good value but not like insane high high value. but him and ragna had issues through bug fixes

[atomic flame]

I understand. And yeah, there's a part of the community that doesn't mango. But the ones that do mango are a threat, even 30% of the playerbase is enough to throw things off-base, I mean just look at #「🌀」portals . Last night it was full of people wanting to ovrn leech instead of actually play the game. Your multi-req idea has legs, layering small hurdles is better than a flimsy lock.

For the Questline with 5 stages, i'm in. Unique elements to keep every quest from being the same? Slows mangos that are trying to unlock the stage, i'm down for that. Lmk how you would like to refine it before I add it to the main suggestion.

[thick bane]

To add my input as someone who's only had 1 Monarch recently despite playing since release, I would personally not like to be able to trade Stats and Traits.
The thing is, if there is trait trading, then everyone will have a full team of Monarchs
Not because they will trade fairly for the Monarch godly you worked so hard to build, no, they will not trade with you
Rather, they will make alt accounts to grind boss rush (7 runs to get all the trait shards and you can bring 4 alts at a time) for 160 trait shards to trade with only themselves

And what do you think will happen when everyone has perfect Monarchs? Simple, it will become a REQUIREMENT to do the same as them or you will not have a chance at winning tournaments whatsoever.
In a perfect world where each human only has one account, there wouldn't be an issue with this, but alas, we don't live there.

[carmine rampart]

ngl i do agree on traits not being trade able because that is common sense

but stats could be trade able

but tbf

[atomic flame]

Explained is FAR BETTER than I ever could
Edit: There's also the inevitability that the devs would have to balance the game around monarch if trait trading became a thing. That happened to AD, making the game unplayable for anyone new.

[carmine rampart]

i rather want everything else like skins/some mounts/familiars and exclusive units be tradeable

before stats

[errant cloak]

You think they would be this cheap? Monarchs will probably cost over like 5 gogetas worth of value

[thick bane]

I'm not sure if you missed the line where I speculate noone will trade with other players
They will only trade with their own alt accounts for easy cheap trait rerolls

[errant cloak]

Even with unique elements can't bots just brute force it? Its not like elements matter that much

[thick bane]

We can easily assume that bots are limitless, considering theres macaronis that are able to read and detect buttons

[errant cloak]

yeah that's what I said earlier, its a problem but I hoped for a better solution since just removing traits upon trading will undermine some people's work

[thick bane]

Unfortunately even solutions on a crazy scale like "require a country mandated ID for accounts" doesnt work due to corrupt real life organizations
Humans are so hellbent on breaking rules and taking the easy way that it's practically impossible to make something fully proof of doing wrong

[orchid notch]

subaru will have a good amount of trade value since you couldnt get multiple unless u had bug and people are drooling for him

[errant cloak]

Sure but no one is going that far just to make like 3 more alts to aovid the trading limit

[carmine rampart]

idk if you didnt play during the bug fixes. you could join his portal with friends (shouldnt had been possible) and ppl got multiple evo items. he is still rare but he wont be as high as he supposed to be

[errant cloak]

at that point its just easier to do it yourself instead of a bot

[acoustic maple]

This shit is peak

[marble cobalt]

if traits are not reset during trade people would make more than 3 alts to farm trait crystals and monarchs

[thick bane]

That's what I argued btw

[blissful nova]

interestinggg

[acoustic maple]

lowkey I dont even want trading period but this wouldnt be the worst way to do it

trading in general wouldn't be great for the game imo

[errant cloak]

am tryna say that the only difference being different elements isn't gonna do much, maybe different modifiers different maps

[atomic flame]

I was affected by the bug and have a portal in my inv. I will spite traders by doing nothing with the portal 👍

@errant cloak Back to the trading gateway though, i'll admit that i'm stumped. Beyond the questline with the weathers from worldlines, anyone with a super dedicated macaroni could likely bypass it- that is if they're willing to go that far (and most BMers do, I wouldn't underestimate human greed). And...that's ok. My goal was never to stop all of them, some will get through no matter what we dream up. The main thing is that we stop as many as we can. For trait trading, holding firm on that. We can't let that happen. I will gleefully invalidate a traders "hard work" in attempting to scam children to make a "huge W" if it means Av remains a Tower Defense Game first, and a trading hub second.

I'm still down to try and make a decently strong trading gate that:

• slows botters
• rewards play (somehow?)
• scales fairly (i'm aware that lvl 60 and blitz is nothing)
• fits Av's soul

[errant cloak]

The trait things I already agreed on, I would've liked a better solution but it seems like whatever they do some problems will appear

and about the weather thing, I think it shouldn't just be weathers, since again some weathers just can't be added like tsukoyomi and weathers overall don't do that much difference, you could probably brute force it, and also it might be RNG based, what if the unit you've been grinding and trait rerolled on the most is nerfed

[azure owl]

Dear God this is still being talked about

[atomic flame]

Fair enough, tsukoyomi is basically a "fuck you" to anyone that doesn' t have lancer

lemme think-

[azure owl]

Or sjw and igris or sokora

[errant cloak]

maybe just different maps elements and modifiers? (filter out things that would make it very hard like regen and holy or whatever that combination was)

so it'd be like portals

[atomic flame]

I remember one time you said that the stage would be too easy to defeat so yeah I think a stage that has the following factors can work:

• Solo
• Different maps (no two quests the same per account)
• Elements and modifiers
• Scales With Player Level (New)
• Traitless (New - Rebel)

[azure owl]

Give me the portal fr, I missed him

[errant cloak]

Scales with player level could work but you'd also need to make it so there's a level requirement like 30 or something too so people can't just do it at like lvl 10

[azure owl]

Maybe instead of scaling with player level it scales with highest unit rarity on the team and highest level unit on the team

And yeah having a base level req

Since like level 250s would have an impossible one lol

[atomic flame]

Base level req is a given, level 10s def can't be doing it

[atomic flame]

Ohoho I like this one. This one kind of mitigates the "brute force" concern from earlier...makes it a tad more skill based since you can't just place down a monarch, afk, and get trading.

But I wonder, what happens if the level 50 player brings a full team of level 1 mythics to try and lower the difficulty? Maybe it will be impossible if they try to cheese it that way due to the modifiers lol

[azure owl]

Oh and also make sure to add traitless in there too if it isnt

[errant cloak]

I mean yeah looks good, possibly make it traitless so p2w players don't get an advantage since they'd be able to clear this faster than f2p players

[azure owl]

I mean it's not even a matter of p2w or not

It's just that monarch on certain units makes them wayyyyy stronger

[errant cloak]

That'd just be luck dependant

[azure owl]

And even one monarch unit would kinda ruin the balance of it

[errant cloak]

then

You could say the same on units like alucard, getting them will just make it easier, not that many ways to avoid RNG since the game entirely depends on RNG

[azure owl]

Oh I actually saw this suggestion earlier but u could make it a puzzle

Where ur given 1 rarity of each unit

[errant cloak]

ok looks good imma go now
Thanks for the conversations @atomic flame and whoever else talked

[azure owl]

They just make like 200 random puzzles or smth

[atomic flame]

Alright so here's where we're at for adjusting the 1 time quest to unlock trading:

• Traitless
• Random Modifiers/Weather (NO Tsukiyomi)/Maps/Elements.
• Scales based on the highest rarity unit on the team and highest level unit on the team

Im gonna adjust the main suggestion now

[midnight bramble]

why not stats? traitless tourneys are basically reliant on strategy and stats

[atomic flame]

Thank you for helping us refine the suggestion man, have a great day 👍

[azure owl]

Uh do random mods besides the one that heals allies

That one is significantly harder than the rest

[hasty silo]

here me out
We make gems tradable so everyone starts alting

[azure owl]

Unless u have luce

[atomic flame]

Hence why you shouldn't be able to trade stats, would ironically make the non-p2w mode p2w lmfao

[azure owl]

It wouldn't even be p2w

It'd be alt to win

[hasty silo]

already kinda is since u can just buy stats now

[azure owl]

Turn it into anime altguards

[midnight bramble]

yea but on the other hand rolling stats is fully rng based but i can see ur concerns

and yes u can buy stats already

[thick bane]

That change honestly pissed me off so much
I guess 10m$ a month from trait rerolls wasnt enough, now the only thing F2Ps had over P2Ps was handed to P2Ps on a golden platter 😡

[south glen]

[azure owl]

Wait hold on u can buy stats?

[thick bane]

You can buy stat rerolls now yes

[azure owl]

Whaaaa

That's dumb

[carmine rampart]

you still can get enough for free

[thick bane]

It's not about the fact that you can't do it anymore, but this

(dumbass filter)

[atomic flame]

Welp, I gtg for now. I've spent a little too much time here

cya guys :>

[midnight bramble]

i dont think its dumb bc stats are rng based

[hushed pagoda]

they are but as long as you have enough robux you can skip through the whole process of grinding traits and get a pretty big advantage in traitless tournaments where every stat matters

it brings the competitive integrity of the game into question

[carmine rampart]

legit

[next bluff]

Make it statless asw

[thick bane]

RNG based, but the thing is, P2W players are less likely to grind as hard since they can just buy trait rerolls and be fine
That's why before, F2Ps could get an advantage in terms of stats, but now they don't have that either
Doesn't matter if its RNG because the more you roll the more likely it is to get a good stat

And now P2W players have that over F2Ps too

[midnight bramble]

i mean we already get enough stat rrs as it is

main rsn why ppl arent complaining

[thick bane]

i dont think you get it

[next bluff]

How would the scaling work? Like would it be the same for Ichigo and Vegeta? Some units in each rarity are far stronger than the rest so idk about that. Also everyone has max level units

[midnight bramble]

i do, theres p2w players that skip the grind and thats fine if they wanna play the game like that since theres no exact way u should play any game

[thick bane]

no thats not it, now p2w players have an infinite advantage over free to players

[midnight bramble]

and how does that affect us

does it rlly matter

[thick bane]

tournaments
this is NOT a single player game

[next bluff]

literally any competitive mode

tournaments, worldlines, inf and prob odyssey

boss rush asw

[carmine rampart]

blame the devs that they added a buyable option

and thats wayyyy to specific

[next bluff]

They could just make competitive modes statless

[carmine rampart]

cuz even if you pay 1k irl money for stat chips you still could get 0 godly

[next bluff]

Or make the max Z+

[midnight bramble]

as i already said we already get enough free stat rrs as it is. it makes sense for p2w players to have an advantage over f2p players bc p2w players are the ppl who give the devs money

[atomic flame]

I have downtime so I'm going to send one more message before I checkout for the next 5+ hours.

The developers have a Livestage today @2pm est. There is no better time than now to bring this up to them and shape Av's future. Unfortunately I have an important family matter to take care of, so i'm going to miss it and probably won't be able to speak (ik they randomly choose viewers to talk sometimes). All I ask, is that you point the developers to my suggestion, either the pity one, or the trading one, or both. Hell, it doesn't even have to Be my suggestion, just anything you think would need the devs attention in order to maintain the health of the game.

[tender relic]

geez they is alot of stuff i can argue on this post but gonna become a wikipedia page if i do

[blissful nova]

wat is tis

1k msgs 😭 within 18 hrs

oh godd

[hybrid crypt]

Like everything said here is common sense to an extent like "no gem trading" i do believe the devs got some amount of iq not to do that shit

[tender relic]

yup i cba to debunk this whhhhole post cuz to much reading

[tender relic]

i dont understand why ppl hate trading its a good way to utilize stuff u dont need instead of deleting them and it opens a new side to the community besides gameplay which will be good for the devs cuz more playercount instead of us doing a genshin system of rotating lim units so ppl got to wait an year to obtain a new lim unit (btw i dont think genshin needs trading at all cuz u can beat the game without 5 stars at all)

[latent mountain]

I hate stats trading part

[tender relic]

only bad thing about trading ik the devs are gonna fuck up bring a stupidly game breaking bug causing mfs to get scammed

[urban ice]

the post aint even about hating on trading 💔

[tender relic]

ik but most of his point for what ruins trading to me are invalid

[urban ice]

which points?

[next bluff]

Why tho

[latent mountain]

7 trades per weeks

Take 20 years to get shiny diavolo

[tender relic]

market manipulation should be impossible unless they is one dude making the tier list like gpos case or we using rap
loss of accounts thru ip log links has always been a problem
Mass marketing is not gonna ruin trading cuz its just literally selling the same product/thing to a whole market with ignoring segments
Focus profit over gameplay only applies to ppl who just do trading
inflation is going to happen in any sort of economy depends how its controlled
"RNG Despair fueling reliance on trade" its a cheap route for choosing not to grind for the unit but how does it really affect trading in a whole
could make alot more points but im lazy

also they is a lack of clarification for most of his points for "what ruins trading" so its ez to pick arguments

[tender relic]

and ngl all of these are kinda poor responses cuz its 2 am

[urban ice]

• There are server members hired to make value lists etc
• Nothing to say on point 2
• i don't really get the mass marketing point
• profit over gameplay applies to most if not all players, and makes trading some sort of stock market thing (which some like and some dislike)
• Nothing to say on this point
  -I also agree theres a lack of clarification but poster ran out of space in the messages

[tender relic]

sure they are but market manipulation will occur under the assumption everyone is following that list
yup u dont get mass marketing cuz i used the business studies definition for it and he failed to clarify his own meaning of "mass marketing"
and again profit over gameplay is not specified what it means and im assuming we are talking diff versions but it shouldnt because most of the community is prob not going to be in the trading section.
most of my arguments are prob misunderstandings tbh cuz he fails to clarify what he means by those points tbh

so if im arguing with someone it should be savage wind cuz he knows what he meant by the points he wrote

[urban ice]

fair enough

[atomic flame]

Neither of us are in any shape to argue.

It’s 2am for you and I’m at my grandmas house.

It will be hours before I can explain things to you.

I’ll engage later. Thanks for your input.

[tender relic]

yup i dont mean argue rn cuz i even admitted that i made poor responses

[iron laurel]

Am I the only one here who thinks this seems to hurt the innocent players more than the BM people??

• what’s stopping the people who plan to bm on this game in the future from spending extra money on buying prepared as??

• I notice there’s a lot of strictly requires and that’s fine but the guy who created this suggestion seems to not care about the legit players, I’m not sure how is this stopping any future BM sales? They can always pay more money to get the job done.

[azure owl]

there is a very easy way to stop rampant bm sales: A fair market

and in that case we wouldnt need that high of a level req or unlocking req either

since all the info is public

[atomic flame]

“The guy who created this suggestion seems to not care about the legit players.”

Across all of the arguments I’ve had with others and you across several threads, you should know that this isn’t true. I champion fair game design and legit players, and I Loathe third parties. Did you skim over everything I’ve sent over the past few days?

[azure owl]

the only reason he keeps saying it is cuz u keep replying to him

[atomic flame]

If it seems like “I don’t care”, then that means I still have to refine my suggestion. And I’m ok with doing that until it’s a diamond

[atomic flame]

Fair. I shouldn’t even be replying anyway, I haven’t seen my grandma in weeks.

Afk for real this time. Replies will not be seen until 6pm

[hybrid crypt]

I mean to me it's the inexperienced ppl who have never done atd trading before

I do agree bm can't be stopped and it's hard to control them cuz they will always find a loophole thru no matter what the devs add

[azure owl]

"bm cant be stopped and its hard to control them" so we are ignoring fair markets massively halt bm?

the only "bad" thing y'all dislike about fair markets is not being able to scam players new to trading

[hybrid crypt]

I'm talking about restrictions to bm and what even classifys as a "fair market"

[azure owl]

a bazaar style market where there is no direct p2p and every trade has to be within 10% lower or higher of the average market price

[iron laurel]

Hey..?
It’s not our fault if this supposedly“new player” doesn’t know anything about the value of the product they are trading, maybe they need something and is desperate for it, you’ll never know

[azure owl]

whether that is through an actual bazaar or through creating relatively equal value listings and those being up for everyone to see

[iron laurel]

We don’t have enough units in the market for that to be available….

[azure owl]

...?

all the limited units

all the skins

[iron laurel]

Seems like you hate trading so much you’re suggesting unnecessary changes

[azure owl]

all the limited items

thats more than enough

[hybrid crypt]

Yup they is prob gonna be a loop hole for black markets still but that's not necessarily my definition of "a fair market"

[iron laurel]

ngl imma be straight with u
we don’t have enough exclusive units for trading, maybe we do but most of them won’t have any decent value

[azure owl]

a fair market is a market everyone has all the values to items and doesnt have to go to far searching to find the values, and there is no loophole if coded correctly

[urban ice]

how much tradable units would you say is enough?

i personally think its enough rn

[azure owl]

fr

we have so many units worth trading

[hybrid crypt]

Exactly everyone has
Perfect information about the products in the market and nobody is capable of forcing ppl to overpay for units (manipulating values ) which means alot of ppl trading the same units

But still doesent stop loopholes like ppl traing it cheaper (then it's normally traded) so they make profit and attract more ppl

[azure owl]

like literally 9 of the units here are limited time and thus tradeable

and thats just the top 2 tiers of units

[tender relic]

u study economics?

[azure owl]

thats why there are restrictions on how many trades you can make hourly, it would take an obscenely large number of people to manipulate values of bazaars

[hybrid crypt]

Yup but kinda mid at it

[hybrid crypt]

Yup still loopholes like trading it to an alt before approaching the limit exists

[azure owl]

go look at the bazaar on hypixel skyblock, its a pretty solid representation of what this game could have, they have very little BM for how big of a game they are

[iron laurel]

yk we can just use alts to get our way around it..?

[azure owl]

hence why p2p trading doesnt exist

[iron laurel]

repeat

[azure owl]

you'd need to somehow get an item with a lot of value on an alt to be able to get a lot of gems to be able to manipulate markets

which yknow at that point just sell the alt anyway

[hybrid crypt]

Pretty fair cuz ur pretty knowledgeable abt it despite not studying the subject van tell its a good system

[azure owl]

there is no way to prevent account selling

[azure owl]

ive taken several economics courses at my college, its not a hard subject to understand dude

[hybrid crypt]

Ok fair*

[azure owl]

unless you are actively trying to scam people, a bazaar style market is about as good as it gets

[hybrid crypt]

I mean for me it is cuz focusing on csc tbh and eco like a side thing for me

[azure owl]

i mean eco is also a side thing for me since im a mechanical engineer, i just took extra eco classes to understand the economy more (to maybe make more money)

[hybrid crypt]

Fair tbh

[azure owl]

but the only argument for non-fair/bazaar market is literally people just wanting to scam children or the unknowledgeable

which i find disgusting

trading should be a source of getting the items/units you want, not hoarding wealth

[urban ice]

like a 13 year old will give a shit about that

😭

[azure owl]

thats the funny part, the developers arent 13 year olds

and tbh 13 year olds are completely fine with it

[hybrid crypt]

I mean yh but it's going to happen along they keep putting this 1 in a million units in game and they use it to flex which I can't understand why ppl give shit how rich u are in a lego game

[azure owl]

go look at hypixel skyblock, the vast majority of people love the bazaar

[urban ice]

yeah but players are, i can't speak for every younger player but i assume they have the mindset of hoarding as much wealth/rare items as possible

[azure owl]

true, but it wouldnt happen due to scamming people but rather through effort and spending time making slightly profitable deals

and market flipping

[urban ice]

i am NOT playing skyblocks, although my friends who do always say good stuff about the economoy over there

[azure owl]

it'd happen through actual market knowledge

not through lying and deception

[urban ice]

(but thats what most atd traders want)

[azure owl]

hence my point

[azure owl]

boo hoo to them then

honestly atp they should really make a poll asking if players want p2p trading or a bazaar style market

[urban ice]

boo hoo indeed if it does get implemented, i just yearn for the day that they get eliminated

[azure owl]

the children or the atd traders

[urban ice]

the scammers of atd games

[azure owl]

ah, so children or immature adults

[urban ice]

hoarders meh

scammers 😡

[azure owl]

yea hoarders are fine as long as they got the wealth through ethical means

[sly venture]

How exactly was AA affected??

Sure blackmarketting was a thing,but it's the same exact scenario of mango

There is no gameplay affected by trading,in fact it supports player experience

[hybrid crypt]

Aa's trading system is perfect problem is they don't do shit about black marketers but only do sum thing against scammers and make em unable to trade i think

Nvm they do sth about bms and cross traders

[jagged mist]

lowkey just bm sights

and ban everyone their

lowkey about sending a message

[jagged mist]

ofc they wouldnt

bmers

spend money on the game

[sly venture]

How does black market affect ur experience tho?.

That means ur units aren't perfect

Everyone shud be given a fair chance to compete

[atomic flame]

I'm pissed.

I'm actually so pissed.

How is this still going. Why do so many people disagree.

[latent mountain]

[atomic flame]

I'm trying to be collaborative. Now i'm not even sure if this approach is working

and i'm being asked

to spell out things that should be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS.

While i'm visiting a family member I haven't seen in a while

haha...i'm actually about to lose my shit

and write an essay

[tribal hollow]

Does someone know if this is beign adressed or was adressed in the current stage alr?

[hybrid crypt]

I mean if they are selling it cheap asf it's going to lower value of the units also causing ur value to drop not a good example but best I can think of

[sly venture]

Why does the value of a unit matter, ur not trading anyways...

Ur against it

[atomic flame]

Once the black market inflates the value of everything, people will have full teams of monarchs, and the developers hands will be forced to balance the game around them- screwing over f2p players

It WILL affect us one way or another

[sly venture]

Buddy

AA trade system.

Traits cannot be traded.

[atomic flame]

You claim I'm trying to make the game too easy, but if anything trading will without smart regulation

[sly venture]

Devs have already hinted towards following an AA traits system

Trade system I mean*

AA's trading did not affect actual gameplay at all

[atomic flame]

Ah yes, the same game where if you don't have a meta mythic you're FUCKED.

Trait aside, you're going to want that unit

and will do anything to get it

[sly venture]

That's a part of actual gameplay. Where is the part of trading?

[sly venture]

Yea?

U cud have got it without trading

If u grinded

If u dint,u can js trade for it

That's mote fair imo

And it's not like ur getting it for free

Ur still giving smtjin else for it

Be it money or ur own units

And we have tk consider new players

What r they gonna do without subaru/haruka in tournaments which require them

And weren't u saying in ur soft pity suggestion that player experience should be focused over economy???

Trading serves that purpose,unless the devs make unit's rarity based of the economy,which is unlikely

[hybrid crypt]

it does matter if ur trading and im not assumings it for an individual im assuming its the whole community and bm can affect the whole experience

[sly venture]

But aren't u advocating for no trading at all?? That literally means ur not gonna trade ur units

So what's the point in that case?

[latent mountain]

That still not changing anything man take an expample in aa when homura was not that rare but after a few upds she has literally became one of the rarest unit with broken ability for a long time there is noway to avoid the unbalance

[hybrid crypt]

nope im advocating for trading think its a good way to utilize units u dont need and helps ppl who werent playing at the time achieve those units rather then doing genshin system

[latent mountain]

Soft pity is great for a short time only

[next bluff]

How many rrs will a Gogeta be worth

[latent mountain]

4 for ur gogeta

[next bluff]

I don't even have a gogeta fym

[sly venture]

Yea? But how does the unit's value affect ur actual gameplay tho?

[latent mountain]

[latent mountain]

I didnt say anything about this thing

[sly venture]

U can trade if u want,u don't have to if u don't and grind for units

Ur gameplay is not affected at all

[latent mountain]

Competed cotents give a lot of rrs anyways

[sly venture]

Yea?but doesn't that just mean ur units r bad?

[latent mountain]

Imagine getting another blast tournament in big 2025

[atomic flame]

And YOU. Since you asked me to explain my reasoning I happily will!

What Ruins Trading? - Explained even though it's blatantly obvious:

• Unreliable Info Sources: No official values = scam central. Manipulation of marketing falls under this umbrella
• IP Log Links: Account stealing obv. Can be countered in this discord through a link filter bot.
• Inflation/Unit Crippling:
• Black Markets: Do I even have to explain
• Super Fast Trade Messages: Blink, miss the fair shit - Spammers run the show. Every TD game’s curse. "Mass Marketing" Falls under this umbrella
• Stat Mules: AA’s stat mules turned meta P2W. Scroll up to see me talk with someone who wanted to flip a godly for a battlepass, something only 5-10% better than a Z+. That is NOT worth 10USD when you can just get Z+ and be perfectly fine.
• Unregulated P2P/Scams: No rules = scam city. AA’s thieves ate kids alive, let's not pretend that didn't happen.
• RNG Despair Fuels Trade Reliance: 900k wisps, no Diavolo, oh I know! I'll just trade for him! What? The person who has him wants 1k rrs from me?! But I don't have that much! Oh well, lemme spend 10 dollars on a battlepaass and get him! - brutal RNG shoves players to BM. Player first decisions like Soft pity’s a better band-aid, not trades alone.
• Profit Over Gameplay: People want to just hoard wealth instead of play a tower defense game. AV’s soul is on the line.
• Meta Units Going Limited: Excessive rarity screws legit grinders, THIS is what I mean by RNG despair. Not every meta unit should go limited.

[latent mountain]

You didnt read it did you

[next bluff]

Almost done

Like halfway there

[next bluff]

yo alocard wont be tradeable

[atomic flame]

That mote is as wide as mariana's trench, good luck finding a fair trade when people are going to ask for battlepasses, gamepasses, vip, robux, rrs, or other limited units which the average player likely won't have. You can't "just trade", you have to navigate a societal hellscape molded by human greed.

[hybrid crypt]

u shoould also do it for the main message of the post cuz ppl are prob not gonna see it and come with the same argument

[atomic flame]

Thank you for reminding me. I'll fix it

[latent mountain]

I mean the last part has been cancelled by devs themself

Vanguards are confirmed to be meta for many upds

[next bluff]

Have they said anything on stage?

[atomic flame]

Only reason I didn't is because I think I lack space, i'll see what I can do.

[next bluff]

The one rn

Or are they saying a bunch of bs nobody gaf about

[latent mountain]

Nah i have 0/10 listening

[atomic flame]

And I think that's a shame. A damn shame if true.

I remember when diavolo came out they originally wanted vanguards to be just "flexing" badges

[latent mountain]

Ye i like that idea but players were crying about it so they changed their mind

They were like WOA WOA WOA 1/20K FOR A SHIT? HELL NO IM QUIT THIS SHOT FOR AA

[thick bane]

dont you mean permanently? i swear there was some post saying "they will keep getting re-buffed for meta"

[latent mountain]

they ignored the 1/80k chance aizen either

[next bluff]

really? 💔

or are they just being stupid for no reason

[hushed pagoda]

this community just doesn't know what it wants sometimes

do some of y'all want this game to be its own thing or just straight up anime adventures 2

[next bluff]

Im just waiting for astd x

[sly venture]

1. Just don't trade if udk values??I mean u don't want trading anyways
   2.frikin be careful. Ppl r gonna try steal ur accounts even if there is no trading as they can use ur accs
   3.why does inflation matter,u don't even want trading, that means ur not gonna trade ur units?
2. How do black markets affect ur gameplay tho?
3. ????what's the issue with that I don't understand?
4. Stats don't even affect ur scores that much.
5. Ask the kids to be careful. Kids fall for everything. Why do casual players need to be affected bcuz of dumbos
6. The devs wud want trading for this reason,ppl spend more money in the game
7. How r hoarders affecting ur gameplay??unless u trade ur units,there is no reason to worry about them
8. Yea but there r vital units going limited. And to help new players get these units,trading is needed.

[latent mountain]

I dont mind if its the aa the old day

[hushed pagoda]

i applaud the developers for managing to keep the community somewhat satisfied because holy shit I could never

[sly venture]

It's also fair for f2p players who can get gamepasses without actually spending money.

[next bluff]

The suggestion isnt agaisnt trading tf is point 10

[latent mountain]

Stats do affect ur score lmao

[next bluff]

Yeah he literally admitted it lmao

[sly venture]

Get z+

That's more than enough

And again. U can trade for those stats urself

[latent mountain]

Remember the choso meta tournament? Ye you can only do it with full of Z+ and it affect a lot with godlies at the last seconds

[sly venture]

If it does affect ur score,then trade for those stats

[atomic flame]

Updated the main thread with my reasoning, had to delete some of my waffling to make it happen 👍

[sly venture]

Or simple just make stats untradable

[latent mountain]

And the number 10 help on what they are newbies what can they use to trade

[sly venture]

The fact that trading can reward f2p players aswll...

In f2p and I have like 40 lb units,tf am I supposed to do with these units

And having rare shiny units to just flex is js...

[hushed pagoda]

the thing is, trading is supposed to be a side thing players can do as a brake from the main game

players should not be forced to do it if they wish to compete or be caught up with the meta at the very least

[atomic flame]

While I despise trading, but accept it's inevitability, I don't want the game to revolve around it. Trading should be a side thing for good-faith collectors.

I don't want players to resort to trade if they feel weak.
I don't want players to resort to trade because they feel like they have to "catch-up"

Trading should not be baked in every single decision in this game

[hushed pagoda]

it should not overshadow the actual game

[sly venture]

P2w players can easily get those godlies either way if they spend money on stat chips

And as I said,it can elevate f2p experience

[hybrid crypt]

It can but they question is how do u restrict that from happening?

[hushed pagoda]

by not adding it in the first place

[atomic flame]

I see your angle. You think trading will level the playing field, and allow f2p players to be just as strong as the p2w's.

That Will Never Happen unless the f2p knows how to navigate the trading hellscape and use it to their advantage, or become a scumbag themselves.

And even if they did, what could they possibly trade/give to the rich that the rich don't already have? The rich don't want a newbies Emilia. They want Vanguards, they want rrs, they want gamepasses, they want bundles. If the game becomes based around trading, and scales for traders, then A f2p is kinda fucked unless they become a hardcore trader or get blessed by someone

[hushed pagoda]

kidding but this suggestion would be a good start, if the trading system is half-assed you risk jeopardizing the competitive integrity and core identity the developers claim to pursue

[atomic flame]

Damn right, this is a Tower. Defense. Game. I'm trying to preserve it's soul with this suggestion

Trading is a side thing in a Tower. Defense. Game.

• If you're losing a stage, your first thought shouldn't be to trade so that you can beat the stage

[sly venture]

As I said I have frikin 8 shiny lb units,and 32 normal lb units. I also have rare shiny units. I also have limited meta units.

Some player would want these

[sly venture]

I wud agree to no trading if there aren't limited units.

But they exist.

[sly venture]

The competitive integrity as u say gets ruined by these limited units anyways

Someone who doesn't have subaru doesn't stand a chance for no 1 in boss rush tournaments

[atomic flame]

The best way to mitigate that is to create f2p versions of the limited units. Weaker, but do the same shit.

I think I brought this up earlier today, through Kisuke vs Alocard

That way, you won't need trading to get functionality you wouldn't otherwise have

[midnight bramble]

this is a tower defense game but it doesnt have to be played a certain way. ppl can collect rare units and monarchs for collections purposes like pokemon if they want

[sly venture]

Yes but this "weaker" doesn't give people competitive fairness because as they word suggest, weaker.

[sly venture]

Monarchs shudnt be traded.

[midnight bramble]

like i personally just like collecting monarchs and vanguards but i still do play the game normally

[sly venture]

That's out of point bcuz the devs confirmed traits won't be tradable

[midnight bramble]

yea it was just an example for collection

[sly venture]

And some person who wants to collect unirs

[atomic flame]

You're a good faith collector. You are not who this suggestion is targeting. (Also- no trait trading, ever. Not budging on that).

This suggestion really aims to blast BMers and people who just want to flip things for profit, and scam kids. I'm trying to sound the Alarm so that trading doesn't cause Av's downfall. If we're going to do this, we've got to do it right.

[sly venture]

But can't bcuz he joined the game later

[sly venture]

As I said,bmers r like mangoers. They can't be stopped. They only way to do so is by ruining the experience of the entire community.

[midnight bramble]

if u gotta ruin the experience for the entire community just to stop bmers then dont do it at all

[sly venture]

Not adding trading bcuz of bmers is bs.

[next bluff]

what

[atomic flame]

I'm not trying to stop them completely, I know that's impossible, water always finds a way.

What i'm trying to do is mitigate them and lessen their impact on this game. Not trying to do anything just because of inevitability is defeatist, and that's not how I roll. Also, how does this ruin trading for the entire community?

[atomic flame]

WHAT?!

[next bluff]

I'm p sure this is literally in the suggestion

[sly venture]

OK give me some context here

R u advocating for no trading?

[sly venture]

Or are u advocating for restricted trading?

[next bluff]

dude

read the fucking title

[atomic flame]

Restricted Trading, hence the suggestions goddamn title.

[midnight bramble]

i dont mind the suggestion itself i just mind the ppl that tryna add ideas that aren’t helpful to the community

[next bluff]

are we deadass

[sly venture]

I'm on mobile so I can't see ur actual suggestion, but sm ppl were saying no trading

[next bluff]

no reading comprehension

[next bluff]

you dont even have to

[sly venture]

I can't see the title either lmao

[atomic flame]

This explains the last 30 minutes.

[next bluff]

read the fucking title

[next bluff]

U can

[orchid notch]

dragon ball upd

i think

[atomic flame]

DON'T STOP DON'T STOP WE'RE IN LUCK NOW, DON'T STOP THERE'S SO MUCH TO BE FOUND. 🗣️ 🔥

[sly venture]

😭😭it says (warning) if you're,and when I came in here,ppl were saying don't add trading

[orchid notch]

ice cream is either gamma brothers or fusion

[next bluff]

Have they said anything about pity/soft pity in the stage

[sly venture]

My bad then

[atomic flame]

^ This. I still can't join the stage, i'm not alone

[orchid notch]

they said the only stage pity they would add would be 1 million

[atomic flame]

I really shouldn't even be in this chat rn, not "free" until 6pm

[sly venture]

LMAO

[next bluff]

really?

[orchid notch]

yes

im being fr

[sly venture]

Stage pity?as in legend stage pity?

[next bluff]

Im so glad astd x will soon release

[sly venture]

Or the present pity?

[orchid notch]

legend stage pity and secret portal pity

[sly venture]

LMAOOOO

That basically means denied🥳

[orchid notch]

“the only pity we are adding will be 1 million just to say we have it”

[orchid notch]

or smth like that

[sly venture]

W

[orchid notch]

also they showed a short trailer of dragon ball i think

js showing map

[sly venture]

Woahhh

[next bluff]

[hushed pagoda]

it's joever

[latent mountain]

Legend stage pity pls 600 runs for a yama scared me

[sly venture]

Dbz upd although I haven't watched dbz

W

[atomic flame]

Not even DBZ (the anime I grew up on and love to death) is enough to save this shit. 1 million stage pity? Are you kidding me?!

I don't know what to make of this

[sly venture]

I like dbz even though I haven't watched it

[orchid notch]

thats basically saying they arent adding it

[sly venture]

Lmaoooo they don't wanna add pity

[orchid notch]

look at sneaks

see

[hushed pagoda]

honestly not a big deal, they've made it clear they want their game to be mangoed and that's exactly what I'm gonna do

[orchid notch]

thats what they showed

[sly venture]

Damn the sneak

[midnight bramble]

same

ssjb vegito possibly???

[sly venture]

They r not tryna stop the existing stages from mangoing,but they r tryna make stages which can't be mangoed

But damn

Ppl adapt to everything

Even jeju has a Mango now

[orchid notch]

vegeta ssjb double evos

[atomic flame]

Yep that is 100% Dbz in the sneaks. The 25th world martial arts tournament is Majin-Buu Saga stuff. This means SSJ1 Vegito is on the table maybe?

[hushed pagoda]

bless the AHK and image mangoes 🙏

[sly venture]

Ohhh is it the thing from AA?

That vegito fusion

Bcuz buu was the raid unit in AA

[atomic flame]

Yeah he's from that era of the show (albiet he appears later)

[sly venture]

Aight I'm happy then

Upd 5 gon be hype

Although I wud prefer if they cover other animes after this,and not go for a dbz part 2

[iron laurel]

there is not a SINGLE blue character in the entire buu saga...

[sly venture]

Most likely gonna be a fusion unit tho so W

[hushed pagoda]

please no legend stage secret please no legend stage secret please no legend stage secret please no legend stage secret

[atomic flame]

No shit, i'm aware.

I was just going off the Map Shown and the Quote. I didn't see those two girls or whatever.

[sly venture]

Just Mango it bro,it ain't allat

[next bluff]

There is

Ghost kamikaze

The attack gotenks used

[hushed pagoda]

what if it needs a more advanced mango

[hushed pagoda]

im on mobile

im cooked

[sly venture]

Shit sucks if ur on mobile lol

[midnight bramble]

mobile players:

[atomic flame]

I strongly dislike mangos.

No self respecting dev should balance their game around stuff they didn't build, that's like an FPS dev pumping up the recoil because everyone's using aimbot

[sly venture]

I feel bad for mobile players tbh

[next bluff]

Av is shit on mobile lol

[hushed pagoda]

if it's just a legend stage I can setup a mango easily but if it's anything else I'm cooked

[next bluff]

Well its still shit on pc but its not that bad

[sly venture]

Buddy the devs r tryna do their best tryna create stages which cannot be mangoed,but ppl adapt to everything

U can't blame them

And uhh

Legend stages rnt balanced around mango

Bcuz as u saw with igris

He came in release, with the same odds of yama

[atomic flame]

0.75% Chance tho, basically asking for it. That's why I've always advocated for stuff like soft pity :( Would pair directly into their "dynamic stage" approach

Despite the update i'm genuinely worried abt Av now, it's clear my suggestions were ignored or declined.

I'm confused, does Av want to make slop?

[sly venture]

They r just tryna get player retainment,but I agree

Legend stages r shit

They should perhaps make the evo items exchangeable for smthin

[hushed pagoda]

guess I'll be waiting for ASTDX

[atomic flame]

Same, i'll at least check out Update 5 cuz it's DBZ (and if Vegito is in? I'll at least try for him), but the devs seem like they don't want to avoid the same practices that sunk it's predecessors 😔

[hushed pagoda]

ill take anything that even resembles pity atp bro 😭

[atomic flame]

I didn't get to watch the trailer, ty for sending that.

Yoshaa == Vegito confirmed

[hushed pagoda]

but yeah I'm getting vegito and dipping probably, nothing is gonna change

unless the game starts tanking but judging by the competition, probably not gonna happen

[red panther]

wait they adding vegito?

[next bluff]

💀???

[hasty silo]

yes

[red panther]

double traits confirmed? 🥺

[hushed pagoda]

im confused is it a buu-saga update

why is beast gohan there

[next bluff]

Yeah obviously

[next bluff]

Where

[hushed pagoda]

the image

[next bluff]

Thats not beast gohan

[latent mountain]

Another vanguard🗣️

[next bluff]

Thought they were gonna do things right after the gilgamesh key pity

So sad

This is just gonna be aa with better quality and somewhat less rng

[midnight bramble]

shiny version…

[next bluff]

That does NOT look like beast gohan

[iron laurel]

alright watch this calm prediction
ssj3 goku - big circle, 4 placement, water element
majin vegeta - full aoe, 3 placement, holy element
vegito - big cone, 3 placement, water and holy element
am i a genius or what

[midnight bramble]

it could always be shiny version

[next bluff]

majin Vegeta holy?

[latent mountain]

Nah we get another 1 placement with teleportatration ability and double trait

[hybrid crypt]

Peak unit

[halcyon quartz]

-# Its not lol

[urban ice]

vegeta = blast
goku = holy

[void minnow]

theres too much shit to read

[whole linden]

Holy shit fuck rifts

[carmine rampart]

can they add android eight as a familiar?

[orchid notch]

what about chiaotzu

[thick bane]

Short people being turned into familiars bruh 😭 😭 😭

[orchid notch]

real

king kai familiar goes hard

[next bluff]

...

[thick bane]

YAJIROBEE 🔥

[orchid notch]

yessss

[orchid notch]

every 10 attacks cleanse the unit and increase damage for the next attack by 20%

cus like

he is the senzu bean guy

[thick bane]

💯

[thick bane]

And caps corp car mount!!

[orchid notch]

peak

[thick bane]

Itd be insanely cool to throw a capsule and it does the cartoony fog and turns into car

[orchid notch]

mhm

we have 3 solo leveling mounts so doubt adding another dbz one would hurt

[urban ice]

If we don’t get a tien or piccolo evo im going to riot

[orchid notch]

tien x chiaotzu duo unit

[thick bane]

YEEESS

TRI BEEAAAAM

[orchid notch]

cus we have subaru and beatrice

and they said on stage that they are doing more duo units

we also have rem and rom

please i need a yajirobe familiar 🙏

what if we got a majin buu x mr satan duo unit 😭

peak

[thick bane]

HOLLUP

Hear me out

[orchid notch]

im listening

[thick bane]

Kaioken apprentice +100% dmg on the next attack (the first active ability familiar)

Pachiru is perma 30%

So i feel kaioken single boost wouldnt be too broken

[orchid notch]

how long is the cd

and does it stack with nukes

[thick bane]

I think cd should be SPA times 3-4 so itd be only 3% better than pachiru but harder to use

[orchid notch]

it should be the same with all characters dont u think

[thick bane]

Oh man that might be hard to balance

[orchid notch]

make a post on king kai and yajirobe familiar and ask for balance feedback

[thick bane]

Very well, ill go over to stage suggestions

Also maybe every 3-4th attack is auto kaioken

Cause i just realized

6 units to constantly activate

Is crazy

[orchid notch]

thats really busted if u do x2 dmg nuke every 4 attacks

it should be like a 75 second cd

[thick bane]

My logic is that pachiru is 30% boost each attack hence after 3 attacks its about 90%

So by the 4th attack pachiru is at 120%

While this is about 100

But yea ill go post it for even more opinions

[next bluff]

we wont

[thick bane]

Ill ping you in the yajirobe one for cred

[urban ice]

You just gotta pray sometimes

[orchid notch]

pachiru only works when getting stunned so i think there should be an actual cd to balance it out

[thick bane]

Nono its perma

U just need to build it up

[next bluff]

I could see them adding a Piccolo unit

Definitely not tien tho

[thick bane]

But yea still might be op

[atomic flame]

We NEED a mythic version of the OG aura farmer

[urban ice]

I know tien is a unit they won’t add but piccolo? Hes gotta be added

[atomic flame]

Hate that piccolo is stuck at epic for now 💔

[orchid notch]

i mean u need to get stunned to get the buff and if u js get it for doing attacks then it is way too op

[thick bane]

Shiny piccolo -> king piccolo, opinions?

[urban ice]

No

[sweet fjord]

He’ll get a grill master vanguard evo dw

[thick bane]

How about no weights piccolo..

[urban ice]

Piccolo with waves

[next bluff]

Would he a dps or a support

Also don't we have a piccolo unit already

[thick bane]

Car drive piccolo drip for shiny....

[urban ice]

Extra Evo

[thick bane]

Yes

[orchid notch]

@thick bane atm each familar has their own nieche (turbo granny for crit, padoru for supports, beru for summoners)

i think that king kai should be for heavy hitters

with long spa

so its 100% every 75 seconds or smth like that

60

[thick bane]

Hmm... if only we could make it scale better with spa through a fair formula
Ill include this too
We should have mult versions anyway

[orchid notch]

idk kaioken is kinda like an all out attack so it shouldnt strive away from that making it spa based

[atomic flame]

Since the devs seem to be honing in on the buu saga, support.

Orange (if Av ever decides to cover Super Hero) could probably be a dps or sub dps to synergize with beast-han. Haven’t thought his kit through though

[atomic flame]

We do but he’s epic :(

[next bluff]

What kinda support

[orchid notch]

dont u think he would be better dps

imagine he has an ability

[next bluff]

Imagine he's a support

And he just stands still the entire match aura farming

[orchid notch]

“+350% spa, +2000% dmg. removed after attacking once,”

special beam cannon

or smth like this

[rocky flame]

special beam cannon stops attacking for 40 seconds for a 2000% nuke

[orchid notch]

and its line aoe

[rocky flame]

thin ass line aoe

[orchid notch]

medium for balancing purposes

the effect can be thin

[thick bane]

Actually how about
Special Beam cannon piercing (ofc) and being built up
Once activated, it starts charging up to 1000%, each time the unit would attack, +100% until it reaches the max
So he could pre-charge bosses
But loses out on attacking during it

[orchid notch]

so u cant attack during the ability?

[thick bane]

Yea
It charges instead of attacking each spa

[orchid notch]

but if it takes 10 attacks to do 1000% then what is the difference of just attacking 10 times

it should be 3000%

[thick bane]

Basically, you can "save up" 10 attacks before a boss and umleash it at once
Making him an excellent boss killer
Practically the best

[orchid notch]

cus its like a nuke

[thick bane]

But i do agree with this
Bevause
Saber gets 1200%
Every 120 secs

[orchid notch]

and she doesnt miss 10 attacks

[thick bane]

Yea
Def gonna remember this one when i make my own anime td 🙏

[carmine rampart]

ig fusion will come

[steep compass]

vogita super and roku

[carmine rampart]

sogita vuper and uokr

[steep compass]

👎

[golden lion]

SUPPORT THIS SUGGESTION VERY VERY GOOD! AND YES! IF POSSIBLE MAKE TRADING HARDER FOR BM
100 LEVEL REQUIREMENT FOR SURE AND HOURS GAMEPLAY

One more needed for trading set the limit of trading for 1-3 limit trades per day

[orchid notch]

no thats js going to make trading more irritating and for ppl trying to trade up it will be a real pain the ass

also doesnt really stop alt accounts and bots from trading

[latent mountain]

1-3 trade per day 10000 years til my shiny diavolo

[atomic flame]

I'm glad you support my suggestion, I want to make it as hard for BMers as possible to ruin Av and the games that came before it, but even I think 1-3 trades per day is too low. I hate Bmers, but I can't screw over legit traders in my crusade against them. I also can't use a playtime gate, it will just encourage people to macaroni, which is something I don't want. The best I can do is a level requirement and a 1 time quest that can't be macaroni'd

I'm also going to reflect a bit-
Edit: My Reflection will be long, because it will be my last message for a while

[atomic flame]

Part 1

I'm Tired Boss. I feel like i'm fighting an uphill battle across several threads for the past few days, staying up well past midnight. I see the support, I see the stars, really I do. And I'm thankful for each and everyone of them. But it all it takes is one negative reply for me to spiral and lose my cool. I've been stuck doing it for a couple days on end, convincing few- and i've been wondering why.

My beef with trading and profit-driven gameplay is as clear as day. Some people actively want their time wasted, too concerned with unit value and "how can I profit and get all of the rare units?" and not with "how can we make the game's mechanics more fun?" Some thrive on others misery, and trading amplifies that (scammers). I saw it as a predatory tumor on player-first design, and I thought I had a case: a game obsessed with rarity flexing over fun chases off casuals who don’t want to grind 13M presents. If it were up to me and if I were a dev, I wouldn't ever add trading to Av. But it's confirmed and it's planned. Out of fear of the game being "ruined", I made this suggestion to try and soften the blows of trading and profit driven motives. I've seen the damage it can do, and I don't want something I care about to turn into slop. I've already lost DQ, i've already lost Fisch. I'm tired of living in a fucking roblox samsara where the same decisions are made, and the same conclusion occurs, Game Death.

But here's the rub. I'm going against a core identity for half the server. No wonder the responses I got were as passionate as they were. For some of us here, Trading is Status. Bragging Rights. The Roblox "Dopamine hit", and Real world income (ik there are bmmers here). I Call it Crazy, and my opponents hear "You're crazy." This is why some of the "critiques" i've received accross several threads were personal attacks, dismissive, or rude. They aren't just critiques, their shields for a lifestyle that i've been torching. Maybe unfairly.

[sly venture]

Yo can u reply with the suggestion msg I can't scroll up😭😭

[atomic flame]

Part 2

I think my rants on both the soft pity thread on this one hit the mark. Well researched, well reasoned, and well structured- but I ended up painting some legit players as villians. They bite back, I double down, and it's a feedback loop of bile. Re-reading at all, my delivery was honestly a bit rude. Vitrolic even. My takes were a middle finger to many peoples egos- I was poking a beehive and wondering why I got stung. But even through that- I still think i'm right about players being conditioned to accept being punished by predatory game design (look up "Roblox Premium Payouts" if you want to go down that rabbit hole). But the venom in my replies makes it easy to dismiss me as unhinged, not insightful. So i've been thinking about "why am I so angry?" "why am I so invested?" Maybe because I grew up on this platform? Maybe because I don't want to watch something I like go down what I think is "the wrong path?" That nobody else is seeing "the pattern?"

It just feels so very fruitless. I've heard a rumor that on the livestage that pity would be 1/1M on legend stages "just to say they have it." After all the things i've done, effort i've poured, hours i've spent arguing with others across multiple threads, it just feels hopeless. Why even try if the devs aren't going to listen. Av shouldn't be like AD, ALS, or even like prime AA. It ought to be better than all three of those game games and then some, and i'm pretty sure the person reading this wants that too. But we all have different ways of getting there. And that disagreement leads to moments like this.

This post isn't a "concession." It's not me saying "You were right and I was wrong." I still dislike trading. What this post is, is a reflection on what the hell i'm even doing here. I'm going to step back for a few days for my sanity. I can't keep arguing the same tired points over and over against brick walls who'd rather insult me than debate in good faith.

As someone trying to learn Unity for gamedev, my side-hustle and passion outside of roblox, i've been told that if you develop a fun game, the money will flow naturally. But roblox reminds me again and again that it isn't true. Everything i'm learning in unity regarding game design is antethical to what roblox is now. Maybe i've just outgrown the platform- yet I keep holding on, hoping that it will grow with me. But no. It won't. People want their hustle, and devs want retention. A "fun" game isn't enough anymore.

To conclude, I believe that morally and ethically, this suggestion should be considered. But I understand that my delivery, short-temper, and my inability to see that other people could enjoy the game in different ways is where I went wrong. When people saw my vitriol, they shut their ears and eyes to my actual points, and turned me into a "strawman" who wanted the game to be "ez" because I was too lazy to "just grind." But we all know that "just grind" is an euphanism for "just macaroni", which means "don't actually play the game, let the devs continue to add unreasonable grinds to boost engagement so that when your maccaroni gets the unit, you can trade it for [insert something valuable]!"

Now...what in gods name did I just describe? I didn't describe a game. That's not a game. Can you imagine doing that for Bloons TD6? I don't get it. And I probably never will, which is why i'm done for now.

For those who argued with me in good faith, thank you. Your opinions are valid, even if I disagree. Imma step back for now. Idk how long. Replies won't be seen for a few days.

@sly venture here you go.
and gn. Replies won't be seen for a few days. Read at your own leisure.

[atomic flame]

Crashout pt.1

[atomic flame]

Crashout pt.2

[sonic trellis]

Holy yap

Chat gpt, gimme a tldr

[hybrid crypt]

this is bull shit no one is reading that

imma just put than into chat gpt to summarize rq

[sonic trellis]

G money

Tester promotion when

[hybrid crypt]

yall dont need to read wtv he jus said heres the shorter
Frustration & Exhaustion: The author feels drained from debating against trading in a Roblox game, staying up late arguing their stance.

Core Issue: They believe trading encourages predatory design, status obsession, and excessive grinds, making the game less fun for casual players.

Opposition & Pushback: Many players see trading as a key part of the game (status, profit, dopamine hit), leading to heated and personal responses.

Self-Reflection: Acknowledges that their tone was too aggressive, which caused people to dismiss their arguments and attack them instead.

Disillusionment with Roblox: Feels that Roblox prioritizes monetization over fun, contradicting what they’ve learned about game design in Unity.

Burnout & Stepping Away: Discouraged by the game’s direction and the lack of change, they decide to take a break from the debate.

Final Thoughts: Still believes their argument is valid but regrets their delivery; appreciates those who debated in good faith.

[halcyon quartz]

a week ago

[sonic trellis]

Omg I didn’t even notice

Congrats

[halcyon quartz]

thanks

[sonic trellis]

Thought you were still a punnie traine

[sonic trellis]

This is still too much

5 words or less

[hybrid crypt]

to much work tbh to lazy to open chat

but for all of yall see what happens when u turn a hobby in to a job it ruins the fun
every debate is gonna have someone who agrees and some who doesent
doesent mean somone doesent agree means it sucks
and its not like ur even paid 10 cents to do it
and obv most ppls passion for making a game is money most of the time so u can expect their to be monetization

but then the problem is when u have to pay money to actually have fun

[tender relic]

yh dawg even left the server tbh

and being honest its good for him cuz it was getting unhealthy for him

honestly speaking the devs prob dont even care that this dude is gone
but then at the same time its not dat deep
he chose to overwork himself respond to everyone who denied his idea
and these are just the results

devs refuse to respond or even say anything despite the hard work he put into the posts

wasted time wasted effort and unneccesary stress

[hybrid crypt]

exactly most ppl forget why they started in the first place

kinda like sports to me u take them serious and dont see results ur prob going to quit
and continue forgetting why you started in the first place
and most of the time the reason is its fun

any other reason besides that shows u didnt have passion for it from the start

[azure owl]

Damn the traders got to his head finally huh

A post with a negative theme towards trading and still having this crazy of a like dislike ratio is insane

[tribal hollow]

If he didnt take that much time in arguing on why his perception about trading is right i doubt he would have this really positive feedback.

You can see others suggestions in the same context and they aren't... that well received.

[short nimbus]

I gotchu

Trading = bad

[normal shore]

just don't add trading, devs can think twice fr

but yeah

most likely not

good suggestion btw i did read allat

add linear algebra question to a trial

filter the bot and the fool

[latent mountain]

Then whats the point of doing competitiive contents

Making limited units for what if no trading just give anything we want

[hushed pagoda]

this suggestion is gonna be lost to time unfortunately

without a single dev to acknowledge it

[sly venture]

There rlly isn't anything to acknowledge here....

They already said they r gonna follow AA's trading system

That's pretty much what this suggestion is.

[hybrid crypt]

Agree to disagree not about to get to an argument
About someone who left the server due to his own will
But what I saw was him slowly losing passion tbh

[hushed pagoda]

i haven't played AV in a while, kinda losing the will to play knowing what's to come

[sonic trellis]

Thx fam

Preciate it

[jagged mist]

nothing wrog with being greedy

just monetizing your work

if its too monetized people might leave

in most games

but in roblox monetization is haveily accepted

roblox is just a p2w platform

[rocky flame]

bro its a textbook sin what the fuck do you mean 😭

[jagged mist]

not everyones a christian bro

[rocky flame]

its a sin in Islam too

it's like

a universally bad trait

not just a religion thing

[hushed pagoda]

we really tryna justify greed 😭

cmon now

[jagged mist]

nah you hate waffles

wtf

[jagged mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227102596486135869/1312509401449631766/caption-2-1.gif

[jagged mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1090429028390944870/1227762797585367111/Lauk3UK.gif

[void minnow]

what happened to him/her

[urban ice]

Fatigue from the server/game + upset from the direction the game is going

[jagged mist]

he rage Quit

[iron laurel]

this guy's ego is so fucking huge

bro left because the devs do not or won't agree with his methods on how to prevent trading from being exploited

[urban ice]

Again you are completely misunderstanding why he left

I won’t bother explaining it again

[tribal hollow]

Iciqer pointing at others because of their ego

Crazy

[urban ice]

Very ironic i know

[next bluff]

Ironic

[next bluff]

It's because of people like you that he left

I wonder why youre still able to even speak in suggestions when all you do is ragebait every single fucking time

[iron laurel]

His reasons involved the devs directly, nothing related to the actual members of the community, either way I highly doubt he left because I gave one criticism which isn't even bad just him only thinking about innocent players while the others had more than 5+ takes

[next bluff]

not you specifically

Just people that kept saying a bunch of bs like dawg

He himself admitted he was ragebaiting lmao

[iron laurel]

ngl I still think his ego played a big role in him leaving the community forever

[next bluff]

Hmmm how ironic

[rocky flame]

brother doesn't have the reading comprehension to digest a discord thread

[jagged mist]

he was crying

about loosing a discord argument

loosing sleep

having nightmares

it was tragic

[jagged mist]

u know how ad and aa has the captcha thig

av should add that

but instead of 1 captcha

its 10 captchas

to make mango people bleed

[orchid notch]

make this a suggestion and see how that goes

[jagged mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227102596486135869/1312509401449631766/caption-2-1.gif

how about this

[orchid notch]

what did i do 😭

[carmine rampart]

Did the op get banned?

Nvm i just Read it. Holy shi guys dont forget to take a break ans Touch some grass

[jagged mist]

be a dirty bore

[short nimbus]

As much as i agree with this suggestion, this is roblox we're talking about

Most if not all games are made just for profit

I can probably count on 1 hand how many games were made of pure passion

So devs WILL greed

[sly venture]

I can count with no hands

Bcuz there is none

[hushed pagoda]

deepwoken is probably the only one

[tribal hollow]

I knew a few, but they are usually very small projects or linear ones.

But theres a gap between small or big greed ofc

Small ones tend to stick to only obtainable currency and cosmetics.

[hybrid crypt]

Not really fact deepwoken allows u to revive for 1k rbx despite it being "perm death"
I would say that's a lil bit greedy

But wish deepwoken removed perm death tbh

Only games I could say were prob made from passion is arsenal toh (kinda) and mm2

And we need more passionate devs like those

I would say av but av the devs are js saying automate for gems or buy em

[tribal hollow]

Tbh i dont think its possible to not monetize a td.

Only i remember is tower battles and thats because it was the first one

But then tds and what came after , they all monetized to some extent

[void minnow]

😓

[languid ferry]

idk how people don’t shit on that more

[sly venture]

tower battles was peak fr

meh and the greed over here not only benefits p2p players

f2p players also get access to gamepasses

[jagged mist]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227102596486135869/1312509401449631766/caption-2-1.gif

[jagged mist]

deepwoken doesnt

allow that

ur talking about re zero game

i emnt tokyo ghoul game

[hybrid crypt]

im not talking about tokyo ghoul re

[jagged mist]

when did they add this bro

😭

[halcyon quartz]

hasnt that been a thing for like forever

[hybrid crypt]

3 years ago

[bitter pine]

Is the pure passion in the room with us

[lament perch]

since the game dropped?

[hushed pagoda]

ill admit i haven't played it but from what I've been seeing the monetisation isn't too aggressive and the updates don't look half-assed to me

[jagged mist]

its kinda ass

[hybrid crypt]

Deepwoken used to be good

But rn it's fucking aba

Like they don't know what they want to be either aba or bfs path

And rn they is no reason for the game to be perm death cuz ur never getting wiped if u don't plan on staying in the depths and got the idol yun shul

The only fun challenge ur getting from deepwoken is prob W rank which is annoying

[lament perch]

thats not the games fault

its just old

you got used to the dangers of the depths

and with the amount of gankers gl even progging a pve without getting jumped

[lament perch]

it WAS passion but one of the owners dipped for his CC game and the balancing is kinda ass rn

i wouldnt say they doing it for money rn though

paid access games dont get premium payout and they havent made an emote pack in ages

[jagged mist]

they would of made more money from making it free to access fr

deepwoken players are addicts

[last canyon]

deepwoken falloff needs to be studied

this suggestion is rly good though

if trading is implemented badly it could destroy the game

[hybrid crypt]

It kind of is the direction the game is going is like aba or blox fruits sim and perm death seems to be working against them especially fucking voidwalkers which hasn't been dealt with

Like they remove perm death and make it free access easily would have top 5 ccu

[lament perch]

deep is still a rogue like though

cant just remove perma death

its like the whole reason you make diff builds

thats like saying remove dying making you start over in other rogue likes because eventually youll get so good that nothing is scary anymore

which is what is happening to deep

its been what 3 or almost 4 years? its bound to be come easy

[next bluff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1256868905226604544/1350627893671366757/attachment.gif

[lament perch]

though the balancing IS terrible and its lowkey becoming blox fruit combat

[lament perch]

why is this random replying to me

[next bluff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1256868905226604544/1350627893671366757/attachment.gif

[agile viper]

just dont add it😎

[hybrid crypt]

the thing is deepwokens progression isnt challenging its more tedious and repetitive than rogue
where progression was short but challenging
here in deepwoken we got mfs reaching power 20 in 2 hours and u speed ran it 30 mins how did we get here
i do agree perm death should only apply to the depths cuz its a way more fun and challenging experience
but over world shouldnt whats gonna be a new players expression when they go to a void zone get jumped by void walkers and sent to the depths?

prob not a good experience and this happens alot especially in songseeker
and they are most prob not gonna know
and considering new players dont know how to handle void walkers besides fighting or leaving the game is always mandotary and they dont know abt the reputation system

perm death just doesent fit deepwoken its more of a blox fruits grind maybe early days sure but rn just hurting the game

[iron panther]

Yap yap yap

[lament perch]

as a person who goes voidwalker on every build i can tell you are NOT experiencing getting jumped by voidwlaker in voidzones

thats so rare

[lament perch]

if anything voidwalkers help you get better at pvp

the amount of people that would just immediately log if a player looked even slightly aggressive is why they sucked

and there are new player safe guards against voidwalkers

[lament perch]

and your just not getting power 20 in 30 minutes trial of one alone takes like 5 minutes

and its better that way

progression used to take far too long

[hybrid crypt]

Would argue but I'm to tired for this shit and we got way different experiences

[thorny jetty]

the only thing bad is the degrade your stats ngl bc getting godly stats are hard asl so being able to trade for them would be good

[valid kiln]

W suggestion

[hushed pagoda]

i think both of savage's suggestions are gonna be locked at some point and it doesn't look like they'll be implemented at all

disappointing

[stray magnet]

N
G
L
We should ban everyone who voted 'X'

[iron laurel]

Everyone has their own opinion,

[void minnow]

I mean you got so much stats chips

[tribal hollow]

That adds extra value to the tower, which in my opinion i dont agree

Only the tower itself should have value

And the shiny version ofc

With no adds

That way you prevent prices skyrocketing. (Not fully but better than nothing)

[sly venture]

The fact that more than half of the suggestion was already confirmed😭😭

[rich spindle]

just dont open trading i swear its gonna ruin ts game

[dusky lintel]

how?