Variety of Mechanics/Mediums for Account Progression

[heavy patio]

Tl;dr we need multiple features/mechanics involved in leveling up units such as ascensions every 10 levels, ascensions for each evo stage, artifact + artifact leveling system and add those rewards to places like story mode

Short suggestion, as I don't think I would be able to provide any specific mechanics that would be strictly better than what the devs can create on their own.

Imo there needs to be multiple ways for you to "level up"/"gear up" your units as a way to diversify content and (indirectly/to a lesser extent) make the game less pay to win (as there will be multiple avenues for free to play players to make their units stronger along side whales).

I mainly think of gacha artifact systems when I think of account progression, and while many people hate it, I think it would fit nicely into the overall design of anime td's as one of the MANY ways to progress accounts, and you could perhaps make these artifacts less important to overall power of units like in AA to combat this common complaint.

More on AA, that game had something kind of similar to artifacts with "single set" artifacts that would buff stats, but tying back to what I posted in "Game Mechanic Complexity", there should be something like set bonuses/complex set abilities that require active thinking to make these artifacts stand out from traditional stat boosts.

I also noticed (could be misrembering) that the Haruka sneak had the label "0/3 ascensions" in the unit inspect, which I think would be another great source of content to make account progression feel varied. Again, similar to gacha systems, it would make progression actually feel properly paced if there were multiple "ascension" gates for unit levels/evos (multiple evos would be cool).

All of these different items/artifacts/level up items/ascension items can be placed in story modes and challenges to actually make it WORTH going back to the story and challenges (i personally dont ever touch story ever again after i finish it)

Basically, AA food system SUCKS and feels one dimensional and boring.

[wet plover]

You want another F2P system for ascensions?

Food system is ass

[heavy patio]

Not really what i was getting at, I think i did poorly at explaining my intention so maybe this will picture it better:

Mechanic categorized by how much it contributes to unit power:

Right now in AA/AD:
85% trait
14% stat roll
1% lvl

With a diversified system (theoretical):
45% trait
20% stat roll
20% artifact
10% ascension phase
5% level

it will make progression OVERALL less pay to win

as it gives the opportunity to grind instead of swipe for stronger units

[wet plover]

mm Well without levels you character will do IMENSE amounts of lower damage so I'd disagree its 1%, Traits should have a huge impact on unit power understandable, Same with state reroll

I think you're thinking of this wrong, Artifacts and Ascensions are EXTRA Percentages.

Same with traits to be honest but thats different imo

[heavy patio]

maybe, but i think you get what im trying to say about how it will provide cushioning for f2p while also giving whales stuff to do in endgame

i was just giving loose estimates

[wet plover]

So the Cushioning being that traits are less impactful to a characters power?

[heavy patio]

basically, but the devs can tune it as they please.

i really just want leveling to include more than just having food stock piles and grinding stars beforehand to just max out a unit 0.1 seconds after rolling them. that shit is so boring

it should feel REWARDING to have maxed out a unit like how you might 90 a character in genshin

[wet plover]

I can understand disliking traits being so impactful, but you quite literally cannot combat that, its a major part of AV's money source, and traits will still be provided to F2P players, there will be things even like BP's that can be tradeable, so I can't see that being changed.

You're second part I have no clue what you'd want, after you get a character your first thought is to, Max the character out and get them im their prime right away. This is for like all gacha games

Well in genshin the only differnece is you either pre farm or you just farm after

You still have the same fundlements

[heavy patio]

yeah but in genshin theres specific content in domains/weekly challenges to specifically target farm artifacts and ascension items, but in AA you only get food passively from completing really just anything and then stars from boring ass challenges

[wet plover]

There's challenges and certain things you have to craft to get awakened characters in these Anime TD games, not much of a difference
"yeah but in genshin theres specific content in domains/weekly challenges"

[heavy patio]

artifacts and ascensions would give the opportunity to diversify the content and make leveling more grind based than p2w based

[wet plover]

I mean realistcally both are boring, when grinding a character for genshin you brainlessly do it aswell to be honest.

It gets repetitive

Only thing Genshin has thats really cool for a character is frienship and the banners you get off of friendship imo

Artifacts and Acensions will still remain their just different ways to get your character more powerful which both F2P and P2W can achieve

[heavy patio]

maybe genshin isnt the best example, but the point is that there are ways to make leveling more interactive. food just feels so pointless in anime tds

[wet plover]

So how is food any different from level up material in genshin? Yk its the same its just a fundlement for leveling characters, ofc you can do that without food, but food meant for easy access to leveling

Foods needed Leveling material I mean

[heavy patio]

its boring when its the only thing that you need to level your unit

[wet plover]

So make better ways to get leveling materials

Afk farming helps with that aswell tbh

[heavy patio]

if afk farming is supposed to be the solution to a problem in the mechanic, then it just isnt a good mechanic

[heavy patio]

yes you can add a variety of gamemodes to acquire a variety of leveling items

[wet plover]

So Genshins leveling materials is also a problem? I said it helps, not the solution. If you think there should be better ways to get leveling materials then there should for your suggestion astleast

[wet plover]

True would be cool

[heavy patio]

point is i would still prefer genshin leveling over aa leveling, wouldnt you agree?

[wet plover]

Theyre the same

I mean in AA i never had this problem so

Neither in genshin so i mean

[heavy patio]

theres not a problem. if anything its too EASY to evo and max units in aa

and so why is there a mechanic for evoing in the first place if its just trivialized by food and star stockpiles is what im saying

in genshin there is still an incentive to farm artifacts after initial leveling

and so i would like to see a similar set of content in av to make unit leveling less one dimensional

no?

[wet plover]

As it should be? Why would evoing and Leveling units be difficult. Obtaining newer units from harder content or other new materials
"theres not a problem. if anything its too EASY to evo and max units in aa"

Idk why I copied nd pasted that

[wet plover]

Cause Evoing isn't Leveling, you unlock New Passives/abilities and new moves from the unit.

[heavy patio]

then why is it in the game if you only spend like 10 seconds interacting with the mechanic

[wet plover]

There's still incentives to farm artifacts in AA, For tournaments I farmed Artifacts for it.

[wet plover]

What are you saying, damn near every game has a leveling system for their characters?

For Dokkan for example I take 10 seconds leveling a charactaer

[heavy patio]

yeah which is why i mentioned aa artifacts in my initial post, they can expand on how many artifacts are involved in a set, etc.

[wet plover]

Its just a fundlement thing within the game

[heavy patio]

ok but then at least make a separate game mode for getting leveling items?

[wet plover]

Set idea is cool ig depends on how they do it

[heavy patio]

i dont really intend to make the mechanics "better", as my post title says, I just want VARIETY

[wet plover]

Yes. Like how Dokkan does it. Or make it where its just obtainable naturally through story? and Infinites and challenges? like AA did it

Your leveling part makes 0 sense. From my standpoint, but if they do add a thing for materials cool ig I'll use it

[heavy patio]

its a pointless mechanic that does nothing for the game if its implemented the way AA did it? you cant pay for food, so theres no monetary incentive like in gachas? there's no reason to farm anything but the last world in story for food? food/levels isnt tied to unlocking abilities/passives like in other gachas with talents? its just pointlessly timegating stat boosts for no payoff whatsoever

[wet plover]

So to compare once again to genshin, in genshin when you level a character you get stats. Same with Dokkan. You see how all of these games have the same systems? It's meant for the character to GAIN power with level materials, since the character, shouldn't be at its peak strength as soon as you obtain it. + you CAN buy food in AA

Its literally all the same its a basic mechanic, you're overthinking this way to hard

[wet plover]

• its not timegated, takes 10 seconds tbh

[heavy patio]

once you have stockpiled the food

[wet plover]

Which All of those games you could get that

AA i had a stockpile, Genshin I had a stockpile, and Dokkan I have a stockpile

[heavy patio]

they are at least cohesively tied into leveling as a whole with how you unlock passives and talents for characters, food is literally a waste of time

[heavy patio]

maybe you dont get what im trying to say: make the food grind fun? (funner)

[wet plover]

Its the same. Literally the same thing both give stats, sure Genshin gives talents and passives ig, but its literally the same thing, a way to Keep lower players to not be able to have a max character instantly, and for reoccuring players to EASILY get a max ready to go character

[heavy patio]

why would you even say this if youre now defending AA food systme?

[wet plover]

? There's no differnce lmao, what you want a stage? It's gonna be the same as farming the last stage of a story mode. No difference

[heavy patio]

idk why im arguing about food my post is about artifacts and ascensions

[wet plover]

Because in AA I hated leveling characaters, I do in all games. It's a simple function that will reside in the game, takes 10 seconds. I was being dramatic

[wet plover]

I wanted to ignore the ascensions part you said so I just went on the easier one

[heavy patio]

you joined this post just to argue? 😭

[wet plover]

When did we argue

We had a discussion

[heavy patio]

"i just went on the easier one"

[wet plover]

Because that point was easier to dismiss then ascensions one

[heavy patio]

i dont even remember where i said food in my post 😭

[heavy patio]

yes my point was those systems can replace food? as acquiring artifacts and the like are a continuous process that isnt instantaneoulsy done and thus becomes another piece of content to do instead of food which provides effectively 0 content. and doubling down on the evo system by making leveling a set of ascensions with no food leveling need in between ascensions would streamline leveling and remove a pointless mechanic

[wet plover]

I mean, say you pull a character right, and (because you want them to not have levels) you just slap on your best artifacts right away on them, Whats the difference between that and just putting materials in them? There is none

• this would have to affect balancing since levels don't exist

[heavy patio]

because there is no one size fits all for artifacts?

name one artifact that you can realistically slap on any character

[wet plover]

Well artifacts are gonna be artifacts? If it's a good artifact for a character you'll jsut slap it on them no?

[heavy patio]

its not the optimal one no

[wet plover]

Crit artifact, magic artifact, phys artifact.

Shit I'd even say if you a starter just slap a flat attack or attack %

[heavy patio]

ok but they literally release new artifact sets with set bonuses designed for the newly released 5 stars?

[wet plover]

You grind for artifacts no? It's like grinding for artifacts in genshin, if you have athe right one you'll just slap it on the next character

Bro Im ngl it takes 10 seconds to upgrade a unit not hard

[heavy patio]

the point isnt that its hard? its that its boring/pointless?

[wet plover]

Remove pointless from your mind and then we can agree

[heavy patio]

youre saying youll have 5 optimal artifacts off the rip?

[wet plover]

You're saying off the rip leveling materials shouldn't exist?

What are you sayiiiiiinggggg

And even If I don't I'll get them later for the NEXT character I get lmao

[heavy patio]

you just get food passively from playing the game at that point just make leveling how much you use the unit and remove food?

[heavy patio]

what is this even supposed to mean

[wet plover]

"youre saying youll have 5 optimal artifacts off the rip?"

[heavy patio]

youre just lying if youre saying that you would

[wet plover]

SO THAT takes more time? You'd rather sit there and fight with a charcter for 5, 15 mintue 15 waves for leveling a unit rather then. 1 2 3 Added all the Materials?

Like bro 😭

[wet plover]

Keyword later? Like we aren't talking about actually playing Genshin but getting GOOD/decent artifacts for units you pull

[heavy patio]

????? just have one feature? its pointless having both features that do effectively the same thing

[heavy patio]

you were talking about AA artifacts?

[wet plover]

???? It's not? 1 is for instant levels, the other is for NEW players who barely if not having any level materials.

[wet plover]

Why would be still talking about genshin when the game at point is AV?

[heavy patio]

my post was about implementing "multi-set" artifact systems?

im not talking about recycling aa artifacts?

[wet plover]

Never talked about multi set artifacts, but artifacts for AV units, which you want to replace Artfacts for leveling materials no?

[heavy patio]

"set bonuses" ?

[wet plover]

Our conversation here was not about multi sets, I agreed that multi sets would be cool

I thought this shit would be easy to explain holy 😭

[heavy patio]

what the fuck do you even disagree with?

i dont even get what your point is

[wet plover]

"yes my point was those systems can replace food?"

This is a dumb statement replacing food with artifacts is dumb

[heavy patio]

yeah ascensions?

[wet plover]

???????????? Ascensions are a tottally different thing?

[heavy patio]

just doubling down on the evo system?

[wet plover]

Why would Ascensions replace leveling materials?????

What?????? 😭

[heavy patio]

what dont you get

[wet plover]

THATS DUMB

[heavy patio]

how

[wet plover]

Why do you think ever Anime TD, and Gacha game has leveling materials.

My god this hurts my brain

[jagged owl]

Holy yapping of the yappingtons

[wet plover]

Im ngl saying how to that is Biazarre

[heavy patio]

there is at least a variety of sources for food in gachas like in quests, separate challenges? as i have been saying, make the process of acquiring food better? funner?

[wet plover]

Okay and once again I agreed, that different ways to acquiring leveling materials is cool, but saying replace Leveling materials with Ascensions is beyond brain numbing

But the "fun" aspect is the same, its just a different stage + there were challenges for food

[heavy patio]

i made that statement under the precedence that they wouldnt change the food system

[wet plover]

Then our conversation deviated from that conversation to a new topic

[heavy patio]

wtver bro atp this convo is about something i couldnt care less about

[wet plover]

Cool 👍 I just hope you realized that leveling materials matter to the game, wanted to focus on that one rather then the Ascension one

[heavy patio]

it matters when its done right is all

[wet plover]

Which it is. Which is why no one nearly ever in the world has complained about it(if they farmed materials)

[heavy patio]

my argument was that using "complaints" to determine the quality of a system is a "if it aint broke dont fix it" fallacy

[burnt tusk]

ascensions are just an addition lmao

levels are still a thing

[wet plover]

🙏 😭

[heavy patio]

What does that even mean

[burnt tusk]

unit levels

ascensions are a 2nd mechanic for units