i changed my mind and it's no longer a sewer.
if i dont change it again it's a level in a like trash yard place where you have to bring popjaws to certain areas without killing them
#Icerov's Vacrat Highway (finished)
smoky ravine
(icerov's ch.2) popjaw's goopy slippy bloopy world
ancient bloom
Sounds good
smoky ravine
i'd also would appreciate if some people good at aethstetics would give me some help for like ground design or background
ancient bloom
I'm not an expert on that, maybe Kalhua, GreenOne or LexLimbo want to help you out
smoky ravine
yeah was thinking of some of them
ancient bloom
@remote kiln is also a coordinator for your level, so I think he might be the best choice 
smoky ravine
ok i think i settled the lore for the level, you have to save popjaws from pollution
smoky ravine
eh.. might need some help.
i've been stuck for weeks cause i dont really like how it's coming out and i dont know how to progress it
ancient bloom
Would you like to have a talk in a voice channel later?
smoky ravine
surey
smoky ravine
ok so to make a long story short, i realized the reason i never liked how the level turned out was because it was just a normal level, not something that feels like my level.
soo i decided that i will try to turn it into a mini version of my "extreme" series levels, while keeping the main theme i was going with
i Will hopefully soon start the newest version
ancient bloom
Alright, but will it fit the difficulty of chapter 2?
We can move it to chapter 3 or 4 if you want to make it more difficult
smoky ravine
no need, it wont reach those levels of difficulty
smoky ravine
ok so im sorry again, i just dont think the popjaw theme will ever work, would it be okay to change the level theme entierely?
had troubles every time i tried making the level but MAYBE i have a final good idea to try
ancient bloom
Of course, you can change it
smoky ravine
i realized i just didnt know how to make a good sewer level, but after thinking about it for 30 minutes i realzied what im truly good at...
am gonna make an highway!
smoky ravine
icerov's ch2. high way (name in progress)
smoky ravine
btw its an autoscroller with main obstacles being sawblades, fire cannons from the sky and parkour on spinning platforms
smoky ravine
level is near done, and i love how it turned out! i just need to polish some stuff and make the contraptions for gr-17 and bug Pieces
ancient bloom
That's great! As the collectible guide says, it's recommended that you add the bug pieces after review
smoky ravine
i already have the positions for them marked with a simple blue arrow
so at least i can Remember where they would go
smoky ravine
okay the first version is done! bugs and gr-17 arent working yet but you can still find them.
also when giving feedback for the level, i know that 1 checkpoint is a bit too little but the checkpoint setups occupied too much space 
2cb0b0k
ancient bloom
Nice, is it ready for in-depth review or would you just like some short feedback for now?
smoky ravine
probably feedback since it's the first version, if everything is fine then we can use the same version for review
ancient bloom
Alright
smoky ravine
btw, it did say the level was running slowly when uploaded, but i made sure to verify it on switch on handheld and it didnt actually lag much
ancient bloom
I played it today and I like the creativity, pacing, checkpoints and collectible placements!
The only major issue I see are the unpredictable flames raining down above the circling platforms. For some of them you often have too little time to react and dodge them because they appear so close to you.
How about you replace some of the spiketrons on the vehicles with active spike traps? I think these are more fitting.
Is it possible/feasible to have two tiles/layers of "road" flyblocks on the bottom so that you can see more of the road and it's not so low on the bottom of the screen?
I was struggling a bit with the burny whirler inside the helicopter, it has a somewhat strange cycle that is difficult to handle. I think it would be good to let its rotation/movement start together with the section camera path so that it always spins the same when you reach it.
smoky ravine
thx for the feedback!
-the flames are unpredictable mostly if you stay too close to the end of the screen, do you have an idea on how to make then more predictable? even if we add banners or something they would still appear when the Fire does as well
-we defenetly could use spike traps, however i liked the spiketrons cause it feels more like the trucks are actually moving them like blocks, the spike traps would look a bit unfitting
-unfourtonately there is no easy way to make the road taller, i'd have to move the whole level 2 blocks higher which is painfull with all the paths.
plus even if i do, then people couldn most likely just cheese by staying in between the 2 flyblocks.
-yeah sure, a simple eyeswitch to activate the burny whirler should fix the issue
ancient bloom
Alright. How about you place the cannons on the vehicles facing upwards?
smoky ravine
well there are many parts where there either is no ground or spikes, also it would change how you face the obstacles a bit too much.
maybe we could put a sign 2-3 tiles before a firing zone with the danger logo, there is a cannon near the start to the players will learn quckly what it means
and when in the part with bigger fireballs we could use the skull sign
ancient bloom
Hm, maybe marking the flames' trajectories with paths would work well
ancient bloom
well there are many parts where there either is no ground or spikes, also it wou...
The thing is, if there is no ground, then you are probably at the bottom of the screen and have enough time to see the flames coming
smoky ravine
i dont think the trajectory is the problem tho cause you can see where they go, i think they just need an headsup. cause even with the Path, you still only see them once you start seeing the fire as well so it doesnt really fix the fireball jumpscare problem
ancient bloom
The thing is, if there is no ground, then you are probably at the bottom of the ...
So at those parts the flames can come from above with no problems
smoky ravine
which would you say is the trickier part with the flames?
ancient bloom
Actually, I think the timing of the fireballs is the biggest problem, because you can't predict when they come down
ancient bloom
which would you say is the trickier part with the flames?
The one near the end of the level, with the rotating platforms. I died the most times there
smoky ravine
maybe i have an idea for that.
so for that part since you stay high anyway, i could make the camera go a bit higher and place some mudwood sticks to show where the fireballs land
ancient bloom
The one near the end of the level, with the rotating platforms. I died the most ...
All the other fires were alright to dodge
smoky ravine
you think the part with the final moving platforms is too unpredictable or is that one fine?
smoky ravine
wait idk if we're thinking the same, i mean the last time you see fireballs, not spinny platforms but the flyblock that you activate
ancient bloom
I'll make a screenshot
smoky ravine
so i can move the camera up there as well if necessary
ancient bloom
Sounds good
I forgot to mention: I think it would be good to make the driving vacrats killable, maybe via a fallthrough ledge, so you have something to do while waiting for the camera to progress and to make the ribbon more fun
smoky ravine
nuuuuh :(
smoky ravine
Sounds good
wha?
ancient bloom
so i can move the camera up there as well if necessary
This sounds good
smoky ravine
oh yeah, but which part is the one you find more unpredictable? spinning platforms or flyblock
ancient bloom
you think the part with the final moving platforms is too unpredictable or is th...
I was referring to this part
smoky ravine
oh ok, yeah in this one it can defenetly go at least 1 tile higher for the camera
maybe even in the next one with the flyblock
ancient bloom
Yeah
And maybe nerf the flames overall just a little because it's a pretty long section without a checkpoint
Never mind, I think it's alright
smoky ravine
defenetly does need the mudwoods to show where they land
ancient bloom
I don't know if that's helpful because they usually don't reach the ground, but the spinning platforms instead
smoky ravine
yeah but at least you now while on the platforms their trajectory
smoky ravine
so i applied the changes among smaller other ones.
-burny whirler now spawns once you open a door for the helicopter, and is now slower but with 3 things.
-camera now goes a bit higher in the tough parts, and i changed it a bit in other places too.
-vacrats can be killed tho it is not an easy job. they can be killed by going under them belwo the vehicle and pressing a pressure switch. its supposed to be a semi-secret thing you can do so they switches are hidden, but they pop out and are noticebale
if you want i can show you the changes tonight before the gamenight
ancient bloom
No need, I think your new version will be ready for review
smoky ravine
ok so i took a look at the guide and, if its an autoscroller it doesnt need a speedrun way right?
ancient bloom
Yeah, it's not really possible for autoscrollers
Your level isn't long anyway, so it's fine
smoky ravine
oookay so here is the level that i think is ready for review, gr-17 and bugs not working yet.
also, the vacrat killing mechanic is intended to be a really hard bonus, killing them is not easy nor mandatory
g3s9z0x
ancient bloom
Nice, thank you
smoky ravine
this level i think has a very hard but cool ribbon route, cause you have to be as quick as possible while collecting everything
ancient bloom
Alright, I reviewed your level, your changes are really good!
While taking a closer look this time, I found just a few more minor issues:
At the checkpoint where the pathed camera pauses and remains in place, its placement implies that you're at the right edge of the level and not supposed to continue to the right, but go upwards or somewhere else. This both makes the GR-17 too easy to find and is confusing. I think most players will be inclined to go up to the GR-17 and then don't know where to go. Can you please make the camera end more to the right and include another yellow arrow (like at the start) to show where you have to go?
Can you please nerf the two moving whizblades in the screenshot above a little? Sometimes when they move close together, they become almost impossible to dodge while you're on the moving floor/road
This single jem seems a bit awkward. It's not that easy to get, how about you replace it with a turbo jem?
I think this lock switch would be a lot more intuitive and convenient if it was placed on top of the moving platform so that the platform doesn't leave without you on it and you can control better when it starts so you don't get hit by flames
This part with the key and flames is pretty tricky because you're tempted to go on the moving floor in order to throw the key at the door, but there you can't properly dodge the flames while throwing and getting in the train. Jumping right over to the train and throwing mid-air is easier, but it took me a while to figure that out. Can you please have only two fire cannons there so that it's more balanced?
Finally, I think the second half of the level after the checkpoint is still pretty tough, would you mind slowing the down the camera just a little?
smoky ravine
ookay so, for the checkpoint yeah i can defenetly add the arrow and move the camera.
for the whizblade maybe just making the big one medium should do the trick, or making the small one slower.
turbo Jens seems great since it is one of the harder jems.
i can move the switch a bit, but i thought of that has part of the challenge (also did you know, this part is actually possible platformless?).
the key part actually has a little trick: you see the little blue platform thats on the truck? it perfectly allines with the door, thats where you throw it.
and finally, yes i can defenetly slow down the camera, however i think that could Male the final section too long?
also i assume that this version i have to make the bugs and gr-17 working
also for the camera speed, i think lowering it by 50 makes it a bit too easy, so maybe 25 less of speed
smoky ravine
This part with the key and flames is pretty tricky because you're tempted to go ...
there still is the throw platform but since its not obvious i changed some stuff. now the fire are shoot every 2 seconds and the middle one is offset by 1, then i added a fallthrough platform next to the keydoor
ancient bloom
Very good, thank you
the key part actually has a little trick: you see the little blue platform thats on the truck? it perfectly allines with the door, thats where you throw it.
That's considerate, but I don't think any player will notice or try, especially because throwing the key from a far distance is generally risky. If you miss, your run is over because it will probably disappear under the wheels
smoky ravine
welp, i had published the complete level and was about to give the code but then i realized there is a big error you can do by jumping on the left of the gr-17 platform, so i had to cover the Place with invisible prizeblocks
ancient bloom
Was this error possible in your previous version of the level? How can it be so bad that you need invisible prize blocks?
smoky ravine
it was possible in every version ecxept the one i remade now. so go to the platform and just jump left very far, you can go back in the level.
i couldnt fix it in other ways since the camera cant be locked there because you need a way to get back down
ancient bloom
When trying out your level I noticed that you can go back when you jump from the GR-17 platform, but I didn't see it as a problem
Well, you can go back and get all the Jems and kill every vacrat
smoky ravine
the thing is
1-the main hard part of the level is the autoscroller
2-it just looks really bad when you see the flyblock conveyor under, ruins the magic
anyway, this is the full version, without the gr-17 error.
4z7xpkd
ancient bloom
Oh, I see
Technically you could put GR-17 into some kind of container in the air that you can only get out of downwards
smoky ravine
also lemme know what you think of the new way to reach gr-17, i think its a bit better
ancient bloom
Then you don't need prize blocks
smoky ravine
you wont spend much time there anyway, you'll only see the prizeblocks if you try to do the glitch or if you are so bad at parkour you fall down the left side
ancient bloom
I'll take a quick look at it and then release the level for testing
ancient bloom
Good job with these new changes, the bug pieces look good!
Unfortunately I have two more remarks:
- Can you please change the color of all blue arrows to yellow or green? Because according to the builder guide, blue arrows indicate throwing. This includes the new arrow at the checkpoint and the one that appears shortly after. (I did say "include another yellow arrow" and I didn't notice the second one during review because I thought it represented a bug piece)
- The prize blocks kind of break the immersion and I'm pretty sure there are ways to make the camera work better so they aren't necessary. Would you like to take a look at it with me together? It doesn't have to be though
smoky ravine
maybe we can try tonight rn i cant. also i didnt notice in the guide the thing about arrow colors
dont fire me
ancient bloom
It's all good 
ancient bloom
Can you please upload the new version so we can release it for testing?
smoky ravine
oh right i forgot, i'll do as soon as i have time
ancient bloom
Thank you! Then it's ready for testing 
smoky ravine
oook uuuh hold on a min. that code is invalid now. i did an oopsie
i accidently reverted it while trying to revert the previous ones, ops
smoky ravine
ok fixed. 8kpdh0p
winter chasm
so far, it could do with a few more checkpoints
like one between cp1 and cp2
or I'm just bad
ancient bloom
You're right. Icerov and I thought the same, but he said:
1 checkpoint is a bit too little but the checkpoint setups occupied too much space
We already nerfed the two sections a bit, so now it's a challenging short level
winter chasm
I haven't even reached cp2 :(
ancient bloom
There is only one checkpoint
winter chasm
I haven't even reached the end :(
ancient bloom
It divides the level into two sections
winter chasm
well you should have divided it in three
ancient bloom
I think the difficulty is just easy enough for the end of chapter 2
winter chasm
// NOTE.NEW "never beating the LHCC"
ancient bloom
Well... @smoky ravine, we could consider putting another single-use checkpoint in the second section, but with no camera pause. What do you think?
Or make the level easier instead
winter chasm
nono you don't have to do something just because I said something
even though that's the whole point of testing
ancient bloom
Well, your concern about the difficulty is valid and we agree, so maybe it's worth putting another checkpoint in the level or nerfing it more
ancient bloom
That happens to me too sometimes, though not in this level
ancient bloom
smoky ravine
Well... <@749967578000261231>, we could consider putting another single-use chec...
i think the level tho hard isnt that extreme. also a checkpoint without a camera stop is not a good idea.
the only spot i could think of putting it is the small car after the helicopter, which would Make the section a bit too short
ancient bloom
Agreed
winter chasm
I like the level though
although I don't know what's the point of the hidden key chest at cp1
is that gr17
wait that makes sense
nevermind
I forgot this was a campaign level and not just a fun level
ancient bloom
@winter chasm Have you finished testing? Did you find any other issues?
winter chasm
AAAA
fuck uhhhhhh
getting all the buttons under the cars seems like a bit of a time crunch with the autoscroll and moving road, but i havent tried to fully do it
smoky ravine
yeah, it is supposed to be hard, you sick murderer 
ancient bloom
You don't have to get all the buttons because it's difficult and not relevant for the campaign since ribbons don't exist in the campaign
smoky ravine
killing them doesnt do anything (
) its just for ribbon hunters to add a challenge
winter chasm
make one regular jem locked behind an enemy gate
ancient bloom
getting all the buttons under the cars seems like a bit of a time crunch with th...
So... testing finished now?
Or do you need more time?
ancient bloom
Alright, no problem. Let's not forget about it though
winter chasm
ill try to get a 100% (exc. enemies) later
ancient bloom
If you're having trouble with 100%ing, I can do it for you. It really isn't easy
winter chasm
nevermind :(
ancient bloom
Then I'll do the 100% testing for you. Are you finished with testing the rest then, Flower?
ancient bloom
It's alright, do you want to continue or should I assign someone else?
ancient bloom
Okay
smoky ravine
this is basically the genocide route. you kill everyone and the whole thing gets 10 times harder
winter chasm
but it makes it more fun
ancient bloom
"Fun"
smoky ravine
it does have another trait of the genocide route