Antagonists Should Scale With Security

[cyan veldt]

I don’t know the logistics behind how many antags are selected, if it’s based on something more than total crew pop, but I think some mald would be reduced if it was made so that the number of antagonists wouldn’t exceed the number of total security that there is, at least not greatly.

I’ve had rounds before where there were only two officers and a cadet up against six antagonists aboard the station and security would be wiped out, leaving the station doomed. I’m sure there are other people who have experienced the same sort of thing.

My other idea was that the reinforcement system that trauma has is cool and would let people who die at least be able to come back as security reinforcements.

I’m against the idea that security should have to rely on hiring people from hop’s line in these situations. Thoughts?

[solemn socket]

Never!

[topaz crane]

Antags are randomly selected, the number of them scales with the number of people ready at the start of the round. Number of security/command is not taken into account in any way and the game doesn't even take into consideration how many people are ready when selecting antags - it will simply fail to start if it picks a mode that requires more players than are ready. Nukies need 30 for instance, if 29 are ready and the game decides it's a nukie round, it just fails to start the round instead of picking a different roundstart antag set. The opposite is also true, it does not care how many players are in sec when rolling a nukie round, 30 players ready? Cool, everyone dies, because not only do you have nukies, those nukies are often readying up in command/sec roles so you're EVEN SHORTER.

We also need an ERT-lite that is just something that can be triggered by an admin that spawns them on a shuttle to dock with the station if we're in yet another 2-sec-9-antags round (and automatically after a set time for war ops). No pulse munitions or OP armor, but have them geared for lethal threats with hardsuits automatically.

Also, literally the only people that will volunteer for sec from regular crew are antags. They might as well make it completely against space law and SOP to even hire sec from the crew at this point.

[solemn socket]

We want 3 xeno, 5 loneops, 2 bingle hole, blob, 3 changeling when station got only a cadet!

[cyan veldt]

Genuinely it would feel better to play as security if you didn’t have to go against a whole gallery of antags with only two or three other people to count on, especially since you have one of the highest likelihood to get robbed or delimbed or rr’d in the game

[topaz crane]

Yeah but... "just play sec and be better" and whatever other cope shitters and antag rollers will use

(the same people saying this are generally tiders or science when they aren't antags)

[tiny portal]

15 sec 15 heretics is good i think

[cyan veldt]

Later down the line we might have antags like werewolf and/or bloodsuckers and it’s just gonna feel ridiculous if they comically outnumber security

[topaz grail]

okay so a few things
Game only takes into account how many people are readied when the round starts (more people mean more chaos mean more antagonists)
On goob it picks antagonist first, then job, so no, someone high rolling for captain then getting an antagonist will not stop someone else from rolling captain
antagonists like nukies scale with pop. If it's 30 pop there'll be 2 - 3 nukies if it's full pop 5 - 6. Not that it matters. It's crew vs nukies, not security vs nukies

Scaling antagonists with how many security players there are will lead to some very boring rounds

[topaz crane]

didn't say it stopped people from rolling for those roles, i said people that roll for them also often have nukie enabled so you're short 2-5 people in sec/command by default

or other roles that could have helped

and they tend to be the ones that actually want to take those roles, and therefore want combat

[lone cloud]

I agree to this theres a lot of antag issues that require a decent amount of security and they get overrun extremely easy due to the lack of people playing sec and just usually ends up to an arm crew scenario or people stepping up like salvagers or redshield valid hunting its very poorly balanced imo there has to be a better way to incentivize people to play security as well a lot of people do not play sec and that seems like a major problem with the server imo it gets kind of boring maybe have some methods to make sec more fun in the future 🤷‍♂️