allow the freeform law board to affect borgs

[solemn prairie]

itd add more use to the rd robotics console (since rn all it does is make brains fall out)

[digital forge]

Did it not just get removed?

[dark sluice]

For real??? Wow their really removing any chance of discount syndicate or any whimsy/fun with ai laws

[digital forge]

That was one of the reasons it was removed. It made a 50tc syndi item useless

[dark sluice]

To bw fucking fair we have a insanely undercooked ai law system, In 13, not only was the board like, 4 tc ( 20 for us ), but it gave it a LAW ZERO, something that was HIGHEST PRIORITY, only beaten by the malf ai law, and something that was stealthy, too, giving lots of creative freedom for circumventing law 1 there

Here? Its just a freeform but with the words syndicate

Mentionably, freeforms ( base ones ) cant make CORE laws, only lower priority SIDE laws, and its core form was wy more expensive

Also getting a free-form in 13 is a CHALLENGE, requiring you to breacj the upload and destroy all secrecy, or printing a ai board, which needs mining to do its job, making atleast a time limit for that, along with research needed for it

Also, ai uploads had a signal on gps in 13, after being used, allowing for sec/robos to track rogue consoles

( for reference uploads/core/freeforms costed like, 1 bluespace, 2 diamond, gold & metal in 13, along with uranium )

[digital forge]

Remember goobs rule:
Dont fix it if you can remove it

The same with devils, mechs, wraith, ect.

[formal atlas]

ok mechs was justified though that shit was awful

[dark sluice]

ok yeah no mechs suck ass even in 13, and 13 also removed devils because sheer powergame

[digital forge]

I did not say they were not awful. But all mechs needed are higher build requirements, research price and limited ammo (the unlimited ammo AC-2 was the main problem). Mechs were in the game for like over 6 months so more than enough time to fix that.

[formal atlas]

bro they were impossible for any antagonists that dont have some kind of emp (even with that theyre still pretty much unkillable) to kill

[dark sluice]

Mechs have alot of general flaws, even in 13, where thye got mostly fixed, For one, it is essentially a one-man juggernaut, A single roboo, not even sec, after 20 minutes of miners actually mining, can get a 400 hp behemoth, that could repair itself with repair drones, fuel itself with a plasma gen, shoot bullets and ahve enough ammo to not care, shoot insanely strong lasers, punch down fucking walls, shield themselves ( durand ) move faster than a humanoid ( gygax ) FUCKING MISSLE STRIKE AND JUMP THAT BREAKS REINFORCED WALLS ( my savorite, ivanoh savinoh, two-man mech ), along with paddy, which is annoying as fuck because its a free arrest
alONG with it, BAttery doesn't really matter when 1 minute of charging is enough battery for 40 minutes + plasma gen, and this is enforced further by our micro-reactors

nvm slowdown is just ass yeah

[dark sluice]

-Also fucking true, even in 13, what do you do when ''oh just hit them'' enemy has FUCKING SHOTGUNS, LASERS, PUCNHES THAT SOFTSUN, LMG'S, SELF REPAIR, PLASMA GENERATORS, hell, oly lings could beat mechs in pure, heretics had to ccheat with instakill silicon hand, traitors had 0 chance without insane powergaming ( or they use their OWN insanely op, instant decap, teleporting, cloeaked, katana with jump mech that robos could make for some reason [ the JUSTICE ]), and anyone else without guns was fucked

[formal atlas]

xenomorphs used to just be a non threat because it was just "oh xenomorphs? just build a gygax and be done with it", increasing material costs wont do shit by the way someone is still going to manage to speedrun it in like 20 minutes, the problem isnt how cheap it is, its how overpowered it is

[dark sluice]

xenos in ss14 didn ot get the sheer ''stunlock fuck your masks fuck you your stunlocked the second ir ightclick you'' ss13 xenos did

13 xenos had nearly imposible to kill weeds with how fast thye spread, insane weed healing, larva worked on dead peopel but slower ( WHICH BTW WE SHOULD ADD ), stunlocking, stunlockng, more stunlocking spit, stunlocking tail atack

[ruby iris]

also mechs completely trivialized warops, dont forget

[formal atlas]

bro people here are such babies, they literally complain about a weaker version of the stunlock in ss13 that takes 3 shoves to stun and the stun stops in 7 seconds, the spit attack also only does stamina damage its not even a hardstun here

[dark sluice]

In 13, mechs are- oh yeah arcmining gives infinite materials the second miners pop a vent nvm argument invalid but mechs are still research & material expensive but still overpowered and speedrunnable, worst part is if you do speedrun mech, as tech in 13 was TIMEBASED FOR SOME STUPID FUCKING REASON!!!!

Also in 13 a single rightclick/leap just casually instastuns so yeah the grass is grey on our side or something, spit attack also does stam damagae but stam crit in 13 takes WAY longer to regen, and xenos instant hard-stun you if they shove you while your downed

[digital forge]

To answer you both. (I am also affected by slow mode), I can just mid max chems and also turn to a near unkillable tank and I dont mean to add parity ss13 mechs. (all that you described was NEVER inside ss14. No generators, no repair drones and whatever. Gygax was still far slower than any humanoid (especially with goobs sprint). Many games have mechs and manage to balance it and the same can be done on goob. You both just describe how bad something unbalanced it.. Bug you JUST mentioned how unbalanced xenos are on ss13 and how they are more balance on ss14. On goob ivory tower there are a lot of great ideas how to balance mechs.

[dark sluice]

anyawys, yeah 14 xenos are way weaker, i haven't played goob in several months so i wouldn't know, but its just again a comparison of how mechs are still op, albit they can be balanced, they are still just ''juggernaut crewnmenber solo 1v1'' at most times, unless you just make them a hardsuit which sucks, but 13's turn feature for mechs were probably the best balancing for them

[desert prawn]

again the main reason SS13 seems so blatantly overpowered compared to SS14 is because nobody complains about "balancing" there and they follow the "if everything is overpowered nothing is" ideology, mechs are bullshit because every antag is also bullshit, I've seen a single xenomorph hunter solo a nukie IN FULL ARMOR WITH A GUN OUT. antags are meant to be overpowered since crew is also overpowered.

[dark sluice]

so fucking true, two-hit hardstun bow, strongest meele weapons esword, fucking THREE SPIDERS FROM A SINGLE ITEM ( remenber: station antag, which, when fused with HUMAN/SYNDIE effort, becoms op as fucck ), whatever else bullshit

[delicate quarry]

why fix/balance it if we can remove it