Slaughter Demon feedback

[molten venture]

Hi, I made the slaughter demon. It does it's job as usual, making people mald and die.

What nerfs do you want

[mental mesa]

Remove and add bongle
But for real, adding a doafter on devouring would be peak. Instadevour is trash

[short frost]

Give it no hands ( unless EXPLICITLY needed for martial arts )

[molten venture]

Why no hands? Why is there 5 minutes slowmode 😭🙏

Hands are needed for devouring + they can't pickup guns + base damage is better than other melee items.

I can restrict them to pickup up ANY item though

[white citrus]

Let them keep their hands

[short frost]

Firstly, 13 made it so you didnt need habds to devour, i dont see why we cant here, Secondly, Esword demon... Stun baton demon... JUSTICE ( hos sword ) demon... HF blade demon...

Thirdly, yesh thatd be the best option

[kindred hare]

making eating people take 5 or 10 seconds would be good

[molten venture]

that's based demon

[white citrus]

If they keep their hands they can throw the heads of their victims at people

[short frost]

It certainly is! But still, giving a inf jaunt, high hp, self healing demon the ability to wield meele weapons is a bit silly considering how op some of them are. Especially with 3 hit decap they can use for gettin them.

[molten venture]

instadevour getting removed is gonna nerf the demon by a lot, anyways.

Also 3 hit decap is for unarmoured victims only + they need to be knocked down.

slaughter demons deal 25 blunt which means basic sec armor can make you withstand at least 8+ hits. You can magdump them with shotguns, and possibly CLEAN THE DAMN BLOOD AND STAY FAR AWAY FROM IT IF YOU'RE UNARMORED AND SOLO.

[wispy atlas]

are they suppost to be doing twenty blunt and thirty slash damage a hit for unarmored targets by basic sec vest do you mean the riot one because the normal sec vest survives four hits i feel like i cant read or something

[molten venture]

Its only 30 slash. Also nerf pr is up

• They now take 3x holy damage. They take a bit more damage from all types now
• Speed boost when exiting jaunt has been decreased to 4 seconds from 6
• They have a 5 second devour timer
• They only heal 100 health when devouring a humanoid, instead of fully healing

https://github.com/Goob-Station/Goob-Station/pull/3996

[kindred hare]

they full healed??? no wonder they were so hard to kill

[short frost]

Just make that a actual ability, collect heads, use them as a ranged 30 blunt projectile

[wispy atlas]

the damage changes but theres a eighteen to twenty two blunt damage on top of the thirty slash quality is ass fullscreen to see

[molten venture]

sec ill check cause only stuff I have is

30 slash and 50 structural

[molten venture]

I fixed it by reducing slash damage, but idk why tf it deals blunt damage when i havent specified it anywhere

[twilit ridge]

Pure slash damage? So, the dream of DEUS VULT-ing against a demon as crusader chappy is real?
On that note, are slaughter demons stunnable (for example if hit by the bo staff or disablers)?

[molten venture]

they are stunnable. They can crit at 150 stamina damage

[zinc spire]

Honestly if could be possible, one could port the effects of demons blood like how it is ss13 (the cocktail) that bartender can make, which prohibits the slaughter demon from dragging people into blood, may be difficult to do though

[short frost]

I mean, it'd just be checking for a reagent in their system before devouring, right @molten venture ?

[molten venture]

I could do it yeah. I don't know how it works in ss13. Do you just have to drink it to be immune?

[short frost]

If i recall, like most 13 drinks, just have to have it in your bloodstream

[willow yew]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/blob/af195e137e2a105e067605627644e819133dbd73/code/modules/reagents/chemistry/reagents/drinks/alcohol_reagents.dm#L999

Idk how to read 13 code very well, but the gist of it seems to be "if they're metabolizing Devil's Kiss, and you try to eat them, 'AAH! THEIR FLESH! IT BURNS!', take 25 brute damage (can't wound), and dump them in a nearby blood puddle."

[molten venture]

Alright, next slaughter demon update will include both drink effects

[timber skiff]

I agree with this- a demon attacked my patient in brigmed and I cannot stress enough that literally in the time it took for me to pull out my lecter I shouldn’t have as brigmed he devoured my patient and left, that’s way too fast

[solid grove]

needs to remove the mass RR with corpse feeding IMO while still being evil. Maybe have the corpse feeding instantly drain all of the persons blood and make a big blood pile rather than round removing the corpse. Still hard to revive but no mass RR

Other than that I think its all fairly balanced

[molten venture]

If you gib the demon, the bodies are released

[solid grove]

as my first time as a laughter demon (first time as a slaughter demon in general) using an antag token I was able to stay alive for 40 minutes, do we wanna have people stay inside demon stoumachs for that long? I basically lasted all round until evac was called and then died at the very end

also should be butcherable like dragon so people can realize you get bodies back easier

I unironically like how strong slaughter demon is right now but I feel like it basically removes people from round REALLY easily for how massively strong it is.

I'm not against round removing people in general I just think it should be harder to do than pressing 1, grab, press 1 again and phase out (but getting a timer on eating corpses also means that the slaughter demon's ability to heal is massively reduced and so it kinda becomes its own issue IMO)

even if technically not "round removed" as the bodies can be recovered you basically just have to hope the slaughter demon messes up or it gives you a 30/40 minute respawn timer which I would equate to being round removed

[drifting rover]

god forbid something bad happen in disaster simulator 14

[solid grove]

yeah i'd hate to see the corpse feeding take 10 seconds to finish as a solution though sounds like it would be HORRIBLE to deal with as demon, basically need to completely isolate someone near a blood pile

Ripping someone's heart out with corpse feeding and needing med to make a replacement heart and surgery for it would be good too

[quartz silo]

devour timer + heal nerf sounds kinda brutal ngl. maybe I’m just getting lucky with fighting them in the last couple rounds I played against them but I don’t think they’re as bad as people make them out to be. Feels like one of those should be reverted or not as bad

Maybe if the devour was like 2-3 sec instead? Crew should have time to respond but like slaughter demon should be rewarded for getting a kill. idk it feels like people just haven’t gotten used to it yet

[white citrus]

you also get the super kino heart also i agree with devour being 2-3 seconds

[willow yew]

Yeah, part of it might just be a lack of awareness. Like, people leaving bodies lying around as a free snack for any slaughter demon who needs a quick pick me up, and people not immediately printing a mop and bucket for every crew member to be a DIY janitor.

A security crew fully armed isn't nearly as dangerous to the demon as a crew armed with mops (or God forbid, advanced mops )

[fresh python]

First off

Blood jaunt has ZERO COOLDOWN and works as long as you have blood to escape or reappear in. It's slop and most likely a majority of the reason for malding in the first place when combined with devour full-heal and the massive resistances slaughter demons have

Secondly, Hell Ripte in general just does massive damage regardless of the armor you're in. Unarmored crit in two hits, three if they didn't bleed out enough. There's literally no chances to react to it besides anxiously watching yourself and sprinting when the demon shows up.

I'd advocate to make the lesser slaughter demon WEAKER than the 3 slaughter demons the wizard can summon on their own. It doesn't matter what you are, a lesser slaughter demon will murk you with ZERO room for mistakes if they have a brain.

My changes would probably be making the jaunt be slower to exit and enter, giving you a window of time to react more easily or run away, or if you're lucky with a gun, squeeze in some extra damage before it becomes invulnerable again. As well as a cooldown between uses. It doesn't have to be something absurd like 30 seconds, just 4-8 second CD between jaunts for a cooldown is fine.

Lesser demon obviously should get a weaker version of hell ripte. Instead of the current two hits to crit a poor crew, it should be three or four. Damage resistances should be more like the raidsuit over something like the dread, and the art itself should just be slightly weaker in general. Normal slaughter demons can relish in their unnerfed glory because only wiz summons them

[white citrus]

thats... the entire point of blood jaunt? its supposed to only work in blood and you cant reappear unless there is blood.

[fresh python]

True, though in the end its probably just more of a crew issue in general than the jaunt itself being busted (people refuse to learn that you should clean the blood and properly dispose bodies)

[steel matrix]

Make demon heart giga contra so sec can't use it.

[white citrus]

this is actually based

[mental mesa]

truthloose

[steel matrix]

I got busted by a jaunting HoS on my murderbone skele run and now I am going to mald about jaunting seccies for eternity.

[twilit ridge]

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!

[solid grove]

jaunting clowns only

[steel matrix]

path of shittery ascension

[twilit ridge]

Slaughter demons can very easily delete every janitor on the station given how difficult it is to remove every single footprint with 1u of blood on it, the likelyhood of being near blood puddles, and their fragility. And once that happens, there's little to stop them from rampaging further. Janitor becomes a high mortality profession that fears for their life any time they're near bloodstains.

[silk ember]

it's really not that difficult. the reason the demon is so strong is because of martial arts + full heal. In SS13 it took a good like 5 hits for him to kill someone, then you drag them onto a bloody pool and jaunt for an instant devour. It wasn't hard to kill it. This video shows a slaughter demon (mindswapped wizard, albeit) for an idea of the general balancing on the fucker. Without the fireballs, he kinda just punches you into crit and its pretty balanced

https://youtu.be/_-hBhJhsvVI?si=A4pQac7b7dEQXxS5&t=598

[molten venture]

Hopefully the nerfs put him in a good place.

Also, yeah the martial arts are fucking busted, I'm removing the decap move and keeping the rest moves.

[twilit ridge]

Notable is that they're an ambush antag that likely spawns on top of you. You get maybe 1-2 secs of being surprised and they get a few free hits, after which you're likely bleeding and slowed from the damage. A janitor can't even fight back with their mop (they just splash them with water, or ironically, blood).

[white citrus]

is there any shot to keeping decap?

[twilit ridge]

Allow decap to already dead targets, so you can then throw the head at people to stun them and spread blood around (and an alternative to outright RR-ing).

[molten venture]

I could make the heads deal extra damage when thrown by slaughter demon.

Also recommend a good nerf for it and I'm keeping it. Ig dead targets could work

[maiden skiff]

why does the demon have martial arts wtf

[white citrus]

because martial arts allows you to add cool combos to the game

[brisk minnow]

Make it a random delimb

[molten venture]

Woundmed code gives me a headache, but that's a good idea

[molten venture]

https://github.com/Goob-Station/Goob-Station/pull/3996 new nerfs have been added, most important is that you can no longer jaunt on footsteps

[white citrus]

I disagree with needing 5u of blood. The funny part was that he can come out from any blood and just fuck your shit up

[molten venture]

maint requested it, knew it was gonna happen sooner or later. Especially with how ass footsteps function currently. If they get a rework we can remove this

[white citrus]

It’s getting nerfed into the ground. There are so many nerfs going to it. It just seems really excessive.

[fresh python]

people hate the antag that murderbones because they forgot ss13 parity isn't always a good thing

[white citrus]

They hate that they need to actually think instead of running in with no plans. Cleaning blood cripples it severely

[fresh python]

W-what!? What do you mean I can't shoot Le Antag that Fucking Kills You and kill it with a few bullets? What do you mean I have to be boring and clean up the blood?? That's stupid, I'm going to try and shoot Le Antag that Fucking Kills You instead of learning to work around its counters and dying horrifically in the process so I can mald in deadchat about Le Antag being overpowered

[molten venture]

https://tenor.com/view/nah-id-win-gojo-nah-id-win-gojo-satoru-gojo-jujutsu-kaisen-gif-722934852497975468

[willow yew]

If it gets nerfed into the ground enough, it'd be nice for midround slaughter demons to have a higher spawnrate if/when admins stop redeeming slaughter demon tokens. Although I think part of that's already planned, like adding it to the space ninja calling a threat pool. (Except space ninjas are also super rare, so it's not that much of an increase )

[short frost]

Judt make it a fucking roundstart plushie that can bloodcrawl on 1000u blood puddles & attacks do 0.000000002 dmg & martial arts are just hugs at this point, thats the only way goob will be happy

[brisk minnow]

That's bad. Really bad actually

[white citrus]

It’s way too big of a nerf imo

[short frost]

Peak

[drifting rover]

Yeah its been out for 2 days how about letting the newness of it wear off a bit first

[fossil pike]

It okay to me tbh. Just make his attack cause even more bleeding so that it somewhat offset the nerf.

[zinc spire]

the thing is I'm wondering, if it takes 2-3 seconds to devour a person, and under most cases, do-afters are interrupted by any damage, wouldn't this mean that if the demon won't be able to actually devour anyone in crowds, because people can do what they do a revenant if a demon tries it.

[brisk minnow]

Yes. It will be very easy to prevent them from taking bodies / healing

[zinc spire]

that's awful, like in the most pure sense of the word. A literal tank-like demon thats meant to embrace phasing int crowds, prevented by a mere punch.
Honestly, and this is just from my limited perspective of the matter, and subjective, a skill(chaplain) issue, because of some of the rounds I've seen with a demon, the chaplain has not DONE anything, no blessing of holy water(maybe to give to the CMO, or give bottles of it to people to splash on them), not even trying to combat the demon, they've been literally everything instead of combating the unholy. I'm sure some did try but got gutted, but hell, also maybe they were a syndie and wanted the demon to create a distraction for them)

[white citrus]

It doesn’t really matter because a maintainer is forcing it to be nerfed into the ground. Basically every single thing about it is getting nerfed. Move speed, Health, Damage, Jaunt, Martial Arts and, Healing

[zinc spire]

well, it was nice while it lasted (I did find the martial arts it had a bit zany, wacky even)

[molten venture]

Tell that to bombaster. Also yeah this antag is done, he is not killing anyone now 🙏😭

[brisk minnow]

Just close the pr

[molten venture]

I will revert it to first commit + no hands + bombaster will not merge it

[brisk minnow]

Peak. Blame bombaster being a chud for slaughter demons being op

[molten venture]

I actually have to close the pr because it has requested changes and I know bro is not gonna remove them. Therefore it can't be merged

Also devour doafter is only interrupted by you moving, not getting damaged

[white citrus]

Never open it again 🙏

[molten venture]

Idk I'll give up atp.

I'll make the pr be only devour doafter, no hands and nerfed healing

If it doesn't get merged, not my problem then.

[molten venture]

The bombaster nerfs in question

[brisk minnow]

I do still recommend making the behead move a random delimb

[molten venture]

Won't happen because if I remove hands you can't do the martial arts

[brisk minnow]

no more funny light speed shove 💔

[molten venture]

If I remove ComplexInteraction component they can't pickup anything up or interact with anything, while able to do martial arts. But if u guys want hands removed then I remove them

[white citrus]

I like the martial arts because it adds more flavor to it but I don’t think we’re going to be able to save the antag from the maintainer tbh

[brisk minnow]

the martial arts are fun but it does make it really easy for the slaughter demon. Normally the crew would be able to outrun you and you'd have to keep jaunting to them to finish them off but right now you can just disarm / shove them to the ground which is really strong when you kill in 4 hits

[molten venture]

nerf got merged

-- nerfs since they're not mentioned in the changelog

• You need to do a 2 second doafter to devour someone. Breaks only on move
• Speed buff has been reduced from 3x speed to 2.5x speed when exiting blood jaunt
• Blood jaunt cd increased by 1 second
• Base health reduced heavily
  Wiz demon -> 200 from 240
  Midround -> 180 from 200
  Laughter -> 190 from 215
• Healing on devour has been reduced to 100 per humanoid victim, instead of fully healing
• They take 3x holy damage now
• They actually cant pickup any item now
• Head rip requires target to be dead

-- bugfixes

• Fixed slaughter demons dealing extra 20 blunt damage. They now deal normal damage

[drifting rover]

whats their base health now?

[wispy atlas]

RIP slaughter demon the rosary will stomp it on 3x holy damage. AOE nullrod that will deal 75 holy damage.

[drifting rover]

inshallah once i figure out how to setup a test environment i will remove the rosarys activate-once-and-it-keeps-going thing

[wispy atlas]

Might not been what i thought it was but you basically cant breathe near the chap even with 75 holy damage.

[silk ember]

rosary already got so many nerfs. it's the only nullrod that isnt combat oriented. nerfing it isnt the way to go

[white citrus]

just make it not deal holy damage with its healing ability it’s too strong and it’s been a problem for a while

[wispy atlas]

it can still be used as a melee weapon while praying so aoe 75 damage attack and thirty holy damage each hit with 3x

[twilit ridge]

The aoe is interrupted by any form of damage, so praying + meleeing won't work unless the slaughter demon doesn't get a hit in at all

[drifting rover]

im getting a little off-topic but im mostly bothered by the rosary spam for chaplains valid-checking people way too easily by just leaving it on and walking around the station

[white citrus]

I think most people are innocent here or at least I’m innocent I never do it out of malice

[quartz silo]

I’d blame the mechanic more than the actual players, people just do it to be nice and heal everyone

[wind thistle]

buff it

its called slaughter demon for a reason,,,,,

[molten venture]

no its cuddle demon now

[solid grove]

make cuddle demon and have it do 2 damage on hit (but it can still do the headrip thing if the person is already dead + can also do the ripte kick)

[drifting rover]

there is laughter demon but idk what it do

[knotty cliff]

i think if it had less movement it would be fine

[mental mesa]

Penalty for staying in jaunt for too long

[brisk minnow]

no. Just shoot the demon

[drifting rover]

The only problem with it was being token-spawnable and the martial arts

[molten venture]

next update
https://github.com/Goob-Station/Goob-Station/pull/4064

[brisk minnow]

Does that mean you just disabled spells entirely for mindswapped wizards

[molten venture]

I just added muted component to the jaunt entity. They shouldn't be able to cast spells inside blood crawl now

[pure aurora]

uhhhhhhh