Oracle Rework - Noah

[warm jetty]

"You are a guardian of the town, shielding them with your Aegis."

** Attack:** None
** Defense:** None

(♾️) Mark

• At nighttime select two players to Mark.
• If they are attacked that night they gain the Aegis status.
• You can target yourself to Mark to break all further links with you.

Aegis

• Upon being attacked Aegised players will gain Powerful Defense till the Oracle dies.
• If the Oracle is killed all targets under the status of Aegis will die aswell.

__ Attributes__

• You cannot Mark other Oracles with your Mark, doing so will fail upon their death.
• If you're killed by a player who has an Aegis the link will not effect them.
• Once the Aegis status has been applied to an attacked player you cannot be protected.

** __ Win Conditions__**

• Eliminate every criminal and evildoer.

Goodness dude

I keep getting the defenses mixed up

I am actually going to crash out if I see another fucking :defense:

[molten tartan]

[torn pelican]

[wicked bloom]

Holy shit this is strong lmao

[keen trout]

town imploding after oracle death

it will be the new pacifist but people would be scared to hang it

[wicked bloom]

Wait until d2, look for TP claims and Mark all of them, and have them all visit you

Oh wait I just read the attributes

A strong ass TP arso that turns to glass after proccing

[warm jetty]

Yeah I considered that on my last one, people complained how u can just make everyone immortal

So no tp for you

🖕

[wicked bloom]

I presume you posted this in vanilla initially?

[warm jetty]

Oh yeah, under a different name

Called Ferryman

[wicked bloom]

mysterious

What does break your links mean?

Is it remove both marks and aegises?

[warm jetty]

yeah incase u yk dont wanna die or u accidentally aegis an evil

or u js wanna switch targets

[wicked bloom]

Let's say you aegised a player n1.

N2, you mark yourself and get attacked and killed. Does your aegis die as well?

[hollow bear]

Peak art but oracle is in the best state of any tp by a mile

[wicked bloom]

Thoughts on it if it wasn't an oracle overhaul?

[warm jetty]

This was originally a crusader rework

But ppl say crusader is fine so I just went to oracle

[wicked bloom]

Who's people?

[hollow bear]

It only works if the people don't know they are saved

[sly oasis]

@hollow bear has leveled up! (42 ➜ 43)

[warm jetty]

Idk, everytime I rework crusader people just say theres nothing wrong with it

[warm jetty]

mmm but they dont?

[hollow bear]

Vanilla players?

[wicked bloom]

Vanilla or modded?

[hollow bear]

Oh okay that helps so so so much

[warm jetty]

that was on ferryman originally but I forgot to put it on here

why should they not know they've been saved btw

[hollow bear]

It's very unique and creative but prob to strong? Maybe idk it's weird

[wicked bloom]

@warm jetty

[hollow bear]

It confs them super duper easily

[wicked bloom]

I personally am not a fan of the removal aspect of it

Since depending on the usecase it could be really strong

And also there are some wacky scenarios that aren't fully addressed

N1: A and B were Marked, A was attacked (Aegised).

N2: Oracle Aegises C and self. Also, A, B, C AND Oracle were attacked. Who dies and how?

@warm jetty

[warm jetty]

yes

[warm jetty]

oh wait u mentioned more of them

[wicked bloom]

You literally just said "yes they die, but they don't die since they weren't attacked"

[warm jetty]

You're confusing me

[wicked bloom]

Aegis players die if the Oracle dies

What if Oracle unlinks on the same night Oracle was killed?

[warm jetty]

Okay I understand now lemme reword

[molten tartan]

I think I like the soulbinder one more

this is like soulbinder but it’s oracle

soulbinder*

[warm jetty]

Soulbinder?

[warm jetty]

N1: The Aegis activates and starts protecting
N2: You self Aegis (To clarify you cant select more targets than the one you've already have an Aegis on thats why selfing exists)

If you self the same night you, A, B were attacked you'd die since selfing takes a night to activate.

[warm jetty]

Soulbinder works different

This is Ferryman

[molten tartan]

oh

[warm jetty]

but oracle-ified

[molten tartan]

nvm then

[warm jetty]

Main reason was because the wording on Ferryman was abit chopped

and I dont like doing V2's sooo rework it is

[ebon palm]

Is this a terrible buff if it was just one mark?

with 2 you're a double TP with added benefits

[wicked bloom]

That is true yeah.

Even with one visit you're still stronger than Cleric lol

[warm jetty]

I mean it wouldnt be that good, permanent protection is good but trapper exists for that

so double protection it is

labled with double risk

[ebon palm]

that would be realllly good if it procced

because you could keep marking

lmao

that's double tp coverage

[wicked bloom]

It's lingering and infinitely scalable

N1 you're protecting 1, and n2 you're protecting 2, etc.

[ebon palm]

Yeah that is a power creep hallucination

tps on base should have ~1 protect

1 mark can result in having up to 2 protects at night with perma aegis

then 3

etc

[wicked bloom]

My trapper and BG both have more then one protect potential lol

[ebon palm]

Yeah I mean

power creep moment

there's no good way to provide downsides to tp roles

the difference with your BG is it needs momentum

[warm jetty]

So no protection clause isnt enough to justify the powercreep of this roles protection?

[ebon palm]

It's a TP

TPs aren't going on other TPs normally

like it's a downside sure

no selfing

but I don't think it justifies "kill the oracle before it gets value"

it's adding too much pressure to evils

on top of the tav and the lookout and a bunch of other town that can get out of hand if left alive too long

[wicked bloom]

Here's the safest (and frankly lamest) way you can use this role

N1 Mark someone
N2 Mark another
NX Mark someone, someone was attacked
NX+1 Mark yourself (removing all Aegises and Marks, and therefore removing all consequence associated with you dying

Then start again

[turbid valley]

It's literally just "cleric plus" since killing the tp was always the counterplay

[warm jetty]

I thought it could be rewarding for evils, imagine if you found oracle the night they protected those 2 people, you found the jackpot just like how you'd find a tpow

[warm jetty]

well in that case its just cleric but killing tp is more potent

[ebon palm]

oh I just read this further

people you save die

[wicked bloom]

If the role was
"Every night, permanently protect someone. Once someone gets hit, all protections disappear and you're roleblocked for a night." It's still MUCH stronger than a Cleric.

But this has double visits AND a greed mechanic

[ebon palm]

yeah no thanks

[wicked bloom]

If you self mark they don't

[ebon palm]

Oh well

[wicked bloom]

That's what makes the role busted

[ebon palm]

ehhh

[wicked bloom]

You can literally bypass the consequence lol

[ebon palm]

It's like

Cleric with double visits but it gets stunned upon protecting someone

[wicked bloom]

IMO I think it's a fun concept, but it'd be way overtuned with just one visit, let alone two

[ebon palm]

and gets hard countered by poisoner

[warm jetty]

so nunnys crusader?

[ebon palm]

what's nunny's crus

[warm jetty]

can someone link it

[wicked bloom]

Double coverage but you can only protect once every other night

[warm jetty]

yeah that

[ebon palm]

lol

[wicked bloom]

n2 n4 n6 n8

[warm jetty]

wait thats ur crusader

[ebon palm]

cleric but it takes a barrier from the next night and uses it on the current night instead

[warm jetty]

Im so bad at remembering

[ebon palm]

Crusader's dilemma

[wicked bloom]

Enny's crusader is double coverage, but if both targets were visited neither are protected

[ebon palm]

You visit 2 people, but if both are visited by other players then your visit silently fails

It's kinda op but fresh wanted me to post it lol

and people seem to like op roles in the tos fanbase

so lol

[wicked bloom]

It's stronger when there's less protection, but it's Cleric- when there is lots of protection

[hallow matrix]

“I’m oracle, hang me and your TE dies”

[warm jetty]

tt oracle is about to go hard

[wicked bloom]

If it's the sole protector it's a goated TP (strong but it isn't THAT strong)

With other TPs/Trick/Soc/etc. running around, its power dampens tremendously

[ebon palm]

I mean isn't the oracle confirmed when they get it off?

[warm jetty]

Theyre not notified

[ebon palm]

You can tell though

by no kills

[turbid valley]

Anyways, where is chronomancer/enny's druid when you need a double visit tp

[warm jetty]

I mean yeah but thats how all tp works

[ebon palm]

unless coven chooses to outplay you

[turbid valley]

At least that can be replicated by evils

Without DW

[ebon palm]

It's weird because I made it an original role so it can fill a "niche"

not a rework

bg is just cleric

literally

crus is cleric with a gun

and trapper is the slow tp

druid is off doing its own thing

[warm jetty]

Yeah but the issue is oracle is meant to be the multi-protect tp (In certain situations) but doesnt really do it well

the whole gimmick is u can protect all of the same role but half the roles in game are unique apart of tis and tps and some ts

[turbid valley]

when the niche is literally the exact same as another role, it doesn't really have a niche

It's just "cleric is now more likely spawn"

[ebon palm]

Yeah

Cleric but accounts for NKs

That's stilla niche

[wicked bloom]

Chronomancer is a fun concept but it is difficult to balance around lol

For one, double visits usually don't justify the fact it doesn't prevent kills, just delays them, so it needs something more (a way to prevent kills outright or a way to delay it further)

Secondly, even with no feedback it's a role that is pretty easy to confirm, so the double coverage exists as a means to confirm it easier rather than protect more effectively.

[ebon palm]

just more of a "we don't want NKs nuking high priority targets"

[wicked bloom]

It's funny because Arso just bypasses these measures anyway

[turbid valley]

"We don't want the power role to actually influence the game"

[wicked bloom]

So do rits and conjes but those aren't NKs so...

[ebon palm]

arsonist isn't going to just insta ignite the tpow claim

[wicked bloom]

Depends on the arso tbf

[ebon palm]

Yeah ig

[turbid valley]

A smart arsonist isn't

[wicked bloom]

*an unfunny arsonist wouldn't

[ebon palm]

Although I remember being called "new at the game" for dousing one at a time then igniting

by gatekeeping ranked players

I thought it was avoiding my losecon each time

[turbid valley]

Isn't that just a kinda terrible strategy? You're losing a kpn every time you ignite

[ebon palm]

first time got evils maj

[wicked bloom]

Going visit ignite visit ignite isn't funny, but igniting n2 is if you're killing a Tpow that otherwise would be protected is

[ebon palm]

secind time I thought I was igniting coven

so it's not a strategy, it was a tactic

[wicked bloom]

Partially, but it was also for the bit

N2 arso ignites are funny

[ebon palm]

I didn't do it with the intent of "this is a good idea"

[turbid valley]

If it's a jailor is probably worth, but like if it's not a TE you're just mostly losing precious tempo

For minimal gain

[wicked bloom]

This guy's never conceptualize more abstract gains such as the joy of seeing TPs freak out over not being able to sit in one optimal position like a statue for the whole game

Anyways @ebon palm

I think your Crus is stronger than Cleric in a head-to-head when they're both solo

But if they're both in the same game I think Cleric is marginally better, at least at protecting higher priority targets

Unless if both are somehow confirmed/trust one another and can coordinate beautifully, in which case the Crus is still stronger

[ebon palm]

If there are lots of TPs then crusader's dilemma can just target low prio targets instead

[wicked bloom]

King of the peasants is a nice title I guess

I can see it playing like a basic ass Cleric as well by targetting a high prio and a low prio

[ebon palm]

I guess in the early game it's unreliable

[turbid valley]

Mid-late game it's going to be a powerhouse