Most op role in this game

[keen widget]

What role do you think is the strongest

[quiet sentinel]

Jailor

[dense jungle]

Trapper

[night ledge]

Pirate

It's tav but with kill power and defense

[quiet sentinel]

Three executes without needing to reload, super roleblocker, jailing gives town information, practically impossible to fake meaning the jailor’s info is 100% reliable, it has no reliable counters other than CK but what happens when it dies or you roll jinx?

[keen widget]

pirate doesnt roleblock?

[quiet sentinel]

It has no defense

[quiet sentinel]

It does in a functional sense

but winning as pirate is basically rng

It literally is if your opponent is using rng

[dense jungle]

it super roleblocks

[quiet sentinel]

Pirate is kinda bad ngl

You have an expected outcome to win by night 6

and you have no defense

so you can just die at any time

[keen widget]

oh i forgot about modded pirate

pirates bad because it doesnt belong in town of salem

[quiet sentinel]

The pirate answer feels like meme-ing

HAHAHAHA GOOD ONE

[quiet sentinel]

explain

It’s the best TP because it’s not a TP lol

but I would say there are more overpowered roles

[dense jungle]

Mass confirmation is the most powerful ability

[quiet sentinel]

It has counterplay but if you manage to get it off it’s super lame yeah

[blissful notch]

Vampire

[quiet sentinel]

It’s overpowered for sure just covered up by the fact that “there is counterplay”

[keen widget]

hows vamp the strongest

[blissful notch]

Assuming no team

[young osprey]

Vampire can convert both Jailor and Trapper therefore it must be the strongest role in the game

[quiet sentinel]

Coven but with 3 townies

You don’t get to choose

so it’s not consistently good

[blissful notch]

I'm saying vamp under the assumption your solo

Like if you could be one role

[quiet sentinel]

That’s not how balance works lol

[keen widget]

of course vamp is better than roles like sk

[quiet sentinel]

ehhh

idk

[keen widget]

i mean nk in general

it depends on what the other evils are

[quiet sentinel]

This is why town gets overlooked

[blissful notch]

Yeah that's not how balance works cuz lists are designed around the role and such

If you want a role including their faction it's jailor hands down

[keen widget]

Vampire is much better if there is a full coven team town has to kill

but as a main faction its just ok

[quiet sentinel]

Okay well tuba isn’t nerfing vampire because vampire is mid

[blissful notch]

Yeah vampire in the context of the lists its in is balanced

[night ledge]

Wait pirate doesn't have defense???

[blissful notch]

Oh wait how tf did I not say jest

Jest

[quiet sentinel]

No they do not. It’s so pirates can experience maximum suffering

[blissful notch]

It's jest

[quiet sentinel]

Jester is “overpowered”

yeah

I just never play with it

it’s probably stronger

in a win rate sense

[blissful notch]

Even in the context of solo where vamp is the best non ne

Jest destroys it

So imo there are 3 right answers

[quiet sentinel]

no there aren’t

[blissful notch]

Well there are different contexts

[quiet sentinel]

What is “overpowered” @keen widget

make it a strict definition

[blissful notch]

Yeah unless we get a strict one then imo the 3 I listed are all very good answers

[quiet sentinel]

I only care about the game’s actual balance

[keen widget]

role is the strongest in context of their faction

[blissful notch]

How do ne's work with that?

[quiet sentinel]

yeah so it’s jailor or jester if you’re assuming it’s unbanned

[blissful notch]

Yeah jailor is prob better than cata

Actually hmm

[keen widget]

for example, vigi is better than sk cuz kp on town is stronger than on nk

[quiet sentinel]

Catalyst is kinda ass

[keen widget]

cata benefits being evil

[quiet sentinel]

it self confirms and makes jailor op

that’s it

[keen widget]

like apoc cata is very strong

[blissful notch]

Evil cata is insane

[quiet sentinel]

Yeah it’s kinda designed around conversion

[keen widget]

the most easiest to win

[blissful notch]

Then jest hands down

After that exe

[quiet sentinel]

Yeah the answer to the most op role is jester

piss easy to win

0 skill is involved

And you do it immediately day 2

[blissful notch]

There are ways to play it semi skillfully but yeah if you want to be optimal no skill

[quiet sentinel]

If jester is banned it’s jailor

[keen widget]

like if killing the jester ended the game, it wouldnt be stronger even if it has more impact on the game

[blissful notch]

I'd say exe actually

[keen widget]

why

[blissful notch]

Exe is also piss easy to win as

D2 push you win 90% of the time

[quiet sentinel]

and it would just lead to a bunch of casuals rioting that the devs are addicted to balance and hate fun

plus nes ending the game just perpetuates how bad they are as concepts

[blissful notch]

Yeah cuz jest is "Fun"

[keen widget]

cuz its not balanced

jester would become unbearable if it ended the game

and makes the game anticlimatic

[keen widget]

exe is swingy

you are screwed if you get soc or tav as target

[blissful notch]

Eh screwed if tav not screwed if soci doesn't block n1

And yeah its sometimes an instant loss

But most of the time it's a free win

[thin bolt]

In vanilla it's doomsayer in a rolelist with at least three coven (they're usually very obvious)

[blissful notch]

but jest????

[thin bolt]

you don't get hung as jester in vanilla because acting like a jester is less scum than whatever the fuck coven does 90% of games

[blissful notch]

actually true lol

somehow

[thin bolt]

I somehow never win as jester in vanilla lol

unless if coven works to get me killed

[blissful notch]

its cuz vanilla players cant pick up on subtle or unsubtle clues

[thin bolt]

i.e. alterating someone else as jester, therefore making me, the suspected jester in a 1 NE list, evil

[blissful notch]

your outed oh prob just tpow faking

[thin bolt]

that was a crazy play btw. It was a Powerless game and the Coven had an Enchanter who alterated the Vigilante as Jester. The coven then proceeded to pretend to be the uncced vigilante and win the game

well, crazy for vanilla

since even after all that everyone else was basically mechanically confirmed and yet they still voted a confirmed townie out because "uncced vigilante"

[night ledge]

yea uhh

i claim coroner

as jester in vanilla

and like 50% of the time

they just dont hang me

even if i say something like x was killed by jinx and then call someone random jinx

[keen widget]

What happened to the enchanter

[thin bolt]

Enchanter died the same night the Vigilante forged Jester died

[dense jungle]

I got "confirmed" with completely false info where if anyone READ MY WILL, I'D BE OUTTED FAKE. But no... I never get sussed or hanged or even upped as jester.

[thin bolt]

and a different coven faked the vigilante

[keen widget]

So its not like they couldn't see the enchanter coming

[thin bolt]

well yeah

Vigi forged as Jester was killed by coven, and then the next night I was hanged

[dense jungle]

I think I was in that game

[thin bolt]

which revealed I was the real jester

[night ledge]

wait what night was the "jester" killed?

[thin bolt]

so town could've deduced that the forged player was indeed jester

[thin bolt]

n4

[night ledge]

m

alright

woulda been funny if it was on a night that a jester would have defense

[keen widget]

The jester was illu fr

Facade is a lot better than i thought it would be

[quiet sentinel]

I mean yeah if your lobby sucks then the most op role is jailor

[night ledge]

how about war?

is war op?

what about pest?

[thin bolt]

if we're going off of that then Death is the most OP role

it wins the game d1

[night ledge]

death can't spawn in d1

war and pest can

via custom+

[thin bolt]

post never specified if they can spawn d1 or not

so by that logic Death is by far the strongest role

[night ledge]

fair

[quiet sentinel]

I don't think acolytes count as roles

[night ledge]

you sure?

then why can war/pb be picked in custom+?

[quiet sentinel]

only in the circumstance that they are linked to their acolytes but death has two which means it is not a continuous function lol

[quiet sentinel]

because they are joke roles

[night ledge]

AHA

YOU SAID ROLES

GOTTCHA

[quiet sentinel]

I love this community man

pure ragebait

[thin bolt]

you also said "the why can war/pb be picked" instead of "war/pest"

[night ledge]

mb

woke up like 2 hours ago

[night ledge]

i ragebait on accident all the time :)

[quiet sentinel]

Jester might as well be a neutral special so I'm just saying jailor

[night ledge]

if i ever mess up anything i lowkey try to make it ragebait

[quiet sentinel]

even though the correct answer is jester because it can actually be seen in Jackal Returns

[thin bolt]

if OP is by how impactful it is to the game, I'd say Doom or Rit

due to how they completely change how the game's approached

[blissful notch]

cough death cough

[quiet sentinel]

If jailor is how jailor it is to jailor, I’d say Jailor or Jailor.

due to how you don’t approach it and just suffer miserably

[lapis kettle]

Why is coven leader not even being mentioned? The fact that you can get 3 kills bypassing tps on some of towns strongest roles.

Also you can change the situation where you have some really bad roles into a decent team comp

[manic wharf]

Best as in for the alignment?
Jester
Best as in power regardless of their alignment?
Death
Best as in "most likely to get to the end of the game"
SK

[sly shore]

i feel like youre about to be executed

[lapis kettle]

I dont see why people are saying jest is strong. It isnt tbh

[amber lantern]

@lapis kettle has leveled up! (19 ➜ 20)

[sly shore]

anyway im out

[manic wharf]

Jester's win-con is just "exist"

[lapis kettle]

That doesnt make it strong

it just makes it easy

[manic wharf]

Which is strong? You can practically do anything and still win

Regardless of skill

[lapis kettle]

Thats just makes it really easy to use. Being easy to use doesnt make it strong

This thread is flawed anyways. What is defined as a strong role?

Most killing power? Most utility? Easiest to win as?

Cause in terms of killing power. Jinx is theoretically the highest

[night ledge]

nah ww is theoretically higher than jinx

arso too

as ww has rampage that'll hit more than one person

and if you get at least 4 visits

you already got more kills than jinx did in the past 2 days

arso just needs to be visited

[lapis kettle]

right mb

i forgot ww rampage

Arso doesnt because you need to sacrifice a night to ignite

wait nvm several people can visit arso

[night ledge]

and then soul collector can kill like 14 people on day 7

but thats still 2 kills

if they are devided thru each day

or whatever

i can't spell for the life of me

[blissful notch]

It's not 3 usually cuz most lists don't have a CK and a cpow

And your roles are usually decent

[blissful notch]

It's insanely easy to win as that's why

Yeah being easy to use doesn't make you strong but when the thing that's easy to use and works 95% of the time makes you win

[lapis kettle]

Game will draw if all 15 people are alive by d7

[lapis kettle]

The issue is that this question is vague. In what terms are we measuring in the term strong. By winrate then yes its jest by a mile

[blissful notch]

Yeah, if it's 1v14 the answer is easily vamp. But if you include their faction alongside them jailor

[dense jungle]

More than 3 :3
You can get up to 5

Rit hits two people, retrain to conj, rock someone, REretrain back to rit, rit two more people

[lapis kettle]

i forgot you can do that lol

[night ledge]

true rip

[lapis kettle]

youre all wrong tbh. It's obviously oracle because it doesnt exist!

Because it doesnt exist, it has a 100% winrate

[night ledge]

oracle does exist in btos2 but pilgrim/covenite doesnt

[lapis kettle]

zzzzzz

[quiet sentinel]

Jester’s win condition is very strong

If we’re talking pure viability then “strong” refers to how well your composition benefits from you existing

[lapis kettle]

I mean jester is a negative then

[quiet sentinel]

While you’re correct in easy ≠ strong (take cleric/bg for example), jester is both

[lapis kettle]

cause your composition requires you to die

[quiet sentinel]

Yes but you won once you’ve done so

NEs are a weird case

The op specified how op is it compared to other roles in its subalignment

[lapis kettle]

jokes aside. This question is just too vague. Jester is only "strong" because its easy to win as

it has terrible killpower and no utility

[quiet sentinel]

They meant viability

Just pure viability

And rolling jester is like hitting the lottery

It’s weird because NEs play a completely separate game

[lapis kettle]

how do you know they mean pure viability

[quiet sentinel]

They said how well does the role compare to other roles in its subalignment

so I guess the trapper answer was justified earlier lol

[manic wharf]

Then it's just SK, by a long shot

[quiet sentinel]

Yeah that’s fair ig

[rose zodiac]

Trapper

[lapis kettle]

Or CL or Jailor

[quiet sentinel]

CL is strong in a super mid bucket lol

[rose zodiac]

The simple answer is Jailor but it’s designed to be op and is in the “OP role bucket”

[quiet sentinel]

and that’s because CK is strong

[lapis kettle]

CL is just strong in general

true

[quiet sentinel]

not just VM

[lapis kettle]

becasue CK exist

[manic wharf]

Honestly, CL shouldn't be able to retrain coven into CKs

[rose zodiac]

CL is strong because it gives you the best possible Coven team and is also just defacto the best coven role excluding COs

[quiet sentinel]

yeah

It already does plenty

but something about casuals wanting everything to be broken and mechanical

oxymoron

[blissful notch]

It can't unless they already are

And itself

[manic wharf]

Yeah, I'm saying it shouldn't at all

[quiet sentinel]

It adds kill power by existing

[blissful notch]

Yeah but who tf puts CK and cpow in a list

[quiet sentinel]

ranked

[blissful notch]

List issue lol

[quiet sentinel]

That’s so it can spawn every available role

[blissful notch]

Ngl the ranked list seems doodoo

[quiet sentinel]

because all coven and town are designed around ranked

[manic wharf]

Being able to retrain and then turn into a CK is strong

Even without the CK bucket it still has the potential to add one

[quiet sentinel]

coven is power crept in response to town power creep

[blissful notch]

Yeah it is more powerful than CK but imo it's fine for cpows to be stronger than ck

[quiet sentinel]

you nerf both

[blissful notch]

Kinda hard to do that

Also gotta nerf apoc

[quiet sentinel]

It’s not

apoc definitely doesn’t need a nerf

lmao

Apoc are soloists remember

[manic wharf]

It's hard to do that without killing your casual fanbase

[blissful notch]

Tbf I'm basing the power of apoc off of att

[quiet sentinel]

Yeah because they are holding balanced reworks for everything hostage

[blissful notch]

And imo apoc is quite strong in att

[quiet sentinel]

Eh

[blissful notch]

And has far more potential for interesting plays or atleast you get more value out of them

[quiet sentinel]

ATT is dependent on whether or not town rolls Trapper or at least good TIs

[blissful notch]

Well trapper is reliant on if it's judge or not judge

[quiet sentinel]

That’s just untrue

You don’t need to announce mass conf to accidentally mass conf

[blissful notch]

Fair it can just do that

[quiet sentinel]

Also getting no info is still info

[blissful notch]

Tbf trapper is in a bad state and can't it just do that in coven?

[quiet sentinel]

It’s leagues better than just visiting the tpow and having them not get attacked

[quiet sentinel]

Yes

trapper is just not okay

We all knew that

But they don’t want to remove the mass conf

even though it’s a bg sidegrade without it

[blissful notch]

Imo mass gotta go

[manic wharf]

Eh it's less in coven since they have more options to remove the trapper ability/prevent it from activating it

But yes, trapper is bad

[quiet sentinel]

This is like people who justify snitch and among us modded

“Just kill the snitch”

[blissful notch]

Yeah snitch seems broken af

[manic wharf]

It's less, but still bad lol

Apoc just has nothing if bers is hanged

[quiet sentinel]

People say it’s balanced but doing your tasks should not equate to solving the game

it’s such a lame way to play au

anyways

my point is being counterable doesn’t justify bad mechanics

[blissful notch]

Paci is a good version of snitch

[manic wharf]

I'm not trying to justify it lol, it's just a greater problem in ATT than CTT

[quiet sentinel]

Pacifist earned the win if they know all of the evils

[blissful notch]

Yeah seems a little worse cuz only np vs np plus pois and dwer

Now the question is how to implement paci as snitch into modded among us

The biggest thing snitch has going for it is it's iconic

[quiet sentinel]

I mean

you could just make it 1 to 1

Rally players, and if you successfully guessed your fellow crewmates you start a rally

during the next meeting

[keen widget]

Whats snitch

[rough solstice]

modded among us role where if you complete your tasks, you learn who all of the impostors are. The impostors get a big arrow pointing to you if you are one or two tasks away from completing them to try and kill you before you out them in the next meeting

[clear oracle]

Jailor

[vague magnet]

vanilla dreamweaver

ourple why are you everywhere

smh

[tight citrus]

Turn around

[vague magnet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1197648675883716669/1420137551544586380/silly.gif