let vigi not lose gun when witched

[twilit rune]

town shouldnt be punished for something out of their control!1!!!!

[shy socket]

ok

[fierce trail]

imo Vigi should probably also become immune to the Witch afterwards, else they just use the Vigi again 2 nights later (since the night between is likely a reload)

[stoic flower]

the witch takes town's powers for themselves

that's how they work

[fervent seal]

let pros not lose charges from not prossing an evil because in the prosecutors defense how were they meant to know if they were town or not

[shy socket]

ye but thats witches doing not the vigilantes

[jaunty moth]

so this is a witch buff

[shy socket]

why am i getting punished for someone making me use my ability

[twilit rune]

dont think about it too hard just focus on the townie aspect of this

[stoic flower]

wait is this just talking about putting the gun away?

[shy socket]

ye

[stoic flower]

oh in that case sure

[shy socket]

u get punished for getting witched

Wait what u were u talking about then

[stoic flower]

losing bullets

[shy socket]

oh

[stoic flower]

as the post said

[graceful grotto]

I agree that it doesn't make sense or is fun for vigi to feel guilty and put away the gun but this is kinda insane if you find vigi n2 and there is no soci

[shy socket]

yeah no that still should happen

[twilit rune]

let vigi not lose bullets for being witched

hmmmm

[stoic flower]

did you mean not lose gun?

[twilit rune]

same thing

[fierce trail]

Witch just pulls a bullet out of the Vigi's ear now

[twilit rune]

different wording

[shy socket]

i thought we meant like not get their gun tooken

[graceful grotto]

Not at all

[stoic flower]

losing bullets is losing bullets

losing gun is losing the ability as a whole

[shy socket]

ok I think I read this wrong then can you reword it

[twilit rune]

you lose bullets when you put your gun away, when your gun is taken away you lose bullets

[jaunty moth]

witch is so over/under-powered it’s crazy

[twilit rune]

let vigi not lose gun when witched

[stoic flower]

you also lose bullets when you shoot someone

well, a bullet

[graceful grotto]

Imo if witched after shooting via being witch they shouldn't be outright immune to witch but instead they just don't shoot or load that night

[shy socket]

the wording made it felt like u shouldnt lose a bullet for witching someone meaning the witch just gets a free attack off

[stoic flower]

that's an inelegant solution I feel

let the Witch control TKs

[fierce trail]

Don't let the Witch suck 3 free kills out of the vigi

[graceful grotto]

It's better than not being able to play the game and giving witch .5kp per night

[stoic flower]

in your opinion

[shy socket]

why does the guy have 3 bullets in the first place

[graceful grotto]

It makes it so there is still reason to witch vigi it just doesn't give a free kil

[graceful grotto]

Idk

[fierce trail]

Raised in america idk

[twilit rune]

i dont think this will happen ever the odds of a vigi not shooting up to d7 is millions to none

[jaunty moth]

I remember the good old days where vigi claims would just be killed in ToS1 mafia

[graceful grotto]

Well if you get witched n2

And then there is loading

[twilit rune]

actually yeahg

nv,

m

[stoic flower]

well assumign that there is no Socialite, Lookout, Tavern Keeper, Jailor, etc. just hang the vigi

[twilit rune]

but the game would already be over probably if coven just double kills bi-nightly

[graceful grotto]

That's why imo they should become semi immune after the first time they shoot via a witching. (That being no load and no shot)

[graceful grotto]

Yeah it's prob 2 kills but still

[stoic flower]

better solution imo: allow the Vigilante to decide to not Load

[twilit rune]

will never be used

no point

[stoic flower]

except in this specific scenario

[twilit rune]

its like sk caution

[graceful grotto]

You shouldn't have an ability that's dependant on one matchup

[graceful grotto]

That's actually useful in jail tbf

[stoic flower]

okay but you shoudl give a role a unique half-immunity to being witched

I like my solution more

[jaunty moth]

role specific immunity is odd

[graceful grotto]

A unique interaction is better than a one specific use ability

[graceful grotto]

Yeah my solution ain't exactly elegant either

[stoic flower]

Make Loading an action that you have to manually take

[fierce trail]

To fix Jester, we will add a third "Jester" option to every trial

[twilit rune]

i made this because i got witched into a marshal n2 and couldnt play the game

[stoic flower]

now it's more elegant

[twilit rune]

plus rn it just makes vigi pilgrim and that is bad

[jaunty moth]

Witch probably needs to be buffed in some way for another elegant solution for this to exist

witch is already weak in lists

That aren’t AA

[twilit rune]

let witch witch people who have day abilities

[stoic flower]

plus not allowing Witch to use TKs makes it easier for TKs to open claim

Vigis and Trickster have to be careful in Witch games

[graceful grotto]

That would prob change it's interaction with uos and rbs which I wouldn't be opposed to but it does still feel kinda dumb to have an ability you'll use in one specific matchup

[twilit rune]

i dont know where you got that from

this allows witch to witch tks

[graceful grotto]

Yeah I ain't a fan of audit

[stoic flower]

A Vigilante doesn't want to get Witched

[stoic flower]

I am aware

[twilit rune]

then why say that

[stoic flower]

in reference to another proposed solution

[twilit rune]

o

[stoic flower]

this

[graceful grotto]

My problem is your punished for smth out of your control still so this needs smth to not make hanging vigi optimal

[twilit rune]

^

[stoic flower]

I dislike the idea of making Vigilante half-immune to Witch more than I dislike making Loading optional

[twilit rune]

so what if the witch doesnt witch you that night

you just wasted time

[stoic flower]

oh well

that's bad decision making/bad social reading

[graceful grotto]

It does become a mind game thing but since your not guaranteed to shoot evils it's just optimal not to load at all

[stoic flower]

If it's not a witch game you should Load

[jaunty moth]

Theoretically making all killing roles immune to a second witch, if witch was buffed otherwise, I wouldn’t be opposed to

[stoic flower]

If it is, it depends

[jaunty moth]

or maybe second witch just RBs in some way

[graceful grotto]

I'm saying in the situation where you have already been witched once

[stoic flower]

well yeah probs don't load

the issue is where?

[twilit rune]

it doesnt fix the pilgrim problem

[graceful grotto]

That it's optimal to not play the game

[stoic flower]

I have an issue with making Vigilante half-immune to Witch

just give it full immunity or none

[heady flame]

Just let the vigi shoot the witch when controlled again trust

[graceful grotto]

It would honestly prob make it more balanced in AA but yeah it would need atleast a little compensation for non aa

[stoic flower]

unless you can social read well

[graceful grotto]

Yeah that's fair it is a kinda bizarre interaction

[graceful grotto]

The problem is mind games like these you can never have that good of odds considering you don't know these people that well

You can get it UpTo maybe 65% but that's still not worth it

[stoic flower]

although assuming we let the Witch properly witch the vigi, it couldn't really ever be optimal to grant yourself the ability to kill when the Waitch can use you

[twilit rune]

vigilante
n1 Load
n2 Witched
n3 dont load
n4 dont load

[pulsar shadow]

Just get bestowed bro smh
/j

Me when the vigi stops caring about silly things like drinks, UO, and witches

[stoic flower]

tbh I think the original post is sufficient

If town has no counterplay against the Witch controlling the vigi, they just need to focus up and find the Witch

[graceful grotto]

It's not as easy as it sounds

You can't just magically focus on one evil

[pulsar shadow]

Ok but like ima be real witch just needs to change it’s either a loud pois that doesn’t work against vet or extra KP

[twilit rune]

i really like witch its fun to play as

but its not fun to play against

[pulsar shadow]

Witch just bullies anyone with an attack level or is pois with no UO and can’t stop vet

[twilit rune]

this goes for dwer too

just fake uo on ti

and they dont get info

[twilit rune]

or anything

[stoic flower]

well that's fair tbh

[pulsar shadow]

DWer can fake protects and knights and other things as well

[stoic flower]

since that only works on infor gathering

[twilit rune]

yes i know

[stoic flower]

you can't actually stop a Cleric from saving someone

[graceful grotto]

Or fake info

[pulsar shadow]

DWer also can give fake information

[twilit rune]

yeah and that

[pulsar shadow]

Not just fake UO

[twilit rune]

thats why i said this

make the LO see sus

[stoic flower]

:)

Mayor
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