Small addition Acolyte/protector of the deep if alone is not registered as evil to bodyguard as they don't tresspass, same case with trapper.
#True Neutral Faction
ionic swallow
agile crescent
Vote manipulation is bad
halcyon mist
I get that most people are naturally against adding new factions and I’m one of them, but this seems a bit lacking tbh, first question is what list would this be viable with?
This doesn’t seem like a multi-faction type faction in itself, being max of two players with no defense, and doesn’t seem strong enough/fun to go against as a lone faction
ionic swallow
Should it have defense?
halcyon mist
Depends what you’re going for
halcyon mist
I get that, but if it’s just town vs this faction then it turns into town lunching people until they lynch one of these roles
wait they leave? Whats the point of them then what punishment do they give for being in the game
neutral roles should punish players for letting them win, otherwise they can just be ignored
ionic swallow
What if we got rid of the faction title and instead replaced the Acolytes visiting ability with the protector and gave him defence and to the
Protector just get rid of him and make it just a neutral evil role?
upbeat vigil
this is just a glorified voodoo master and cleric atp
also nobody likes vote control
ionic swallow
Yeah that's what I'm suggesting removing
jovial fieldBOT
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ionic swallow
Get rid of the vote manipulation and add the roleblocking cleric ability, and then give it a nerfed guardian angel ability
And have that as a stand alone neutral role
halcyon mist
Okay, but what’s the point of the role is my question, “live to d7” just makes town ignore them until then, and in AA it’s like the survivor effect where people just lynch anyone who claims it
ionic swallow
Harder to claim it tho as you have to roleblock people and be able to pull the guardian angel effect ability
Also they roleblocking can be used agressively
As their whole goal is to reach day 7 which means they are not towns ally
halcyon mist
but they have no incentive to do such
ionic swallow
And likely will target ti
ionic swallow
You lose if you don't reach day 7
halcyon mist
yes but why RB town if it’s not part of your win condition
ionic swallow
The goal is not to survive, it is to survive to day 7
upbeat vigil
my main nitpick is just.
Neutral Outliers (i.e - Vampire, Cursed Soul) are there to branch into their own wincon, while town still has to worry about them. (Vampires can be a HUGE threat and swapping roles is no little thing.)
Neutral Evils cause chaos and mainly disrupt the town, Pirate is killpower, Executioner gets a town mislynched and removes a permanent trial from the game, Jester is killpower and a waste of a lynch, and Doomsayer gets 3 free kills.
Neutral Killings are, well, extreme killpower with defense, they're pretty dangerous.
Although this? Ehh.. this doesn't serve any real purpose at ALL to town and and don't disrupt town at all, apart from vote control, which is just unbalanced, and these roles genuinely don't fit.
ionic swallow
It's a neutral evil role not outlier
halcyon mist
my main nitpick is just.
Neutral Outliers (i.e - Vampire, Cursed Soul) are there...
The final part of this verbatim
upbeat vigil
It's a neutral evil role not outlier
you did explicitly say this is a new faction called Odes of The Deep
and surviving till D7 is such a useless NE wincon that it mainly won't happen
if you're adding a new faction
it's not NE
halcyon mist
It barely fits as a Neutral Evil, just because the title says “Evil” doesn’t mean you have to play like an evil, you will play to your wincon, so essentially what will happen the majority of the games is
- You claim to be one of these two roles
- You confirm yourself by doing a role specific ability
- You delay the game until D7, then leave
ionic swallow
If you read my earliest comments I said we could change this to be a neutral role, only 1 role, with the protectors visiting ability and the Acolytes main abiloty
With the goal of surviving to day seven the main thing about this role is that it kinda works with whoever is not doing well
To stall the game until they can leave
ionic swallow
It barely fits as a Neutral Evil, just because the title says “Evil” doesn’t mea...
I see the point to this critic here
And having nothing to say honestly
I guess it is too low impact as a role, and too confirmable
halcyon mist
I read your post yesterday I know you’re new to the server or suggesting and I don’t mean to be discouraging, some advise is that if you want to make an NE role, it should punish players for allowing them to win/gain progress towards winning.
ionic swallow
The reason why I came up with these roles is because I know the devs are trying to slow the game down, just a little bit. So I decided to make these roles with that idea in mind.
ionic swallow
I read your post yesterday I know you’re new to the server or suggesting and I d...
Thank you for the advice, I actually didn't know that.
I was hoping roleblocking players and being able to refuse town from lynching any particular player for a day would be strong reason to get rid of them
halcyon mist
Thank you for the advice, I actually didn't know that.
of course I love reading suggestions and to be honest some people are mean or don’t explain really why something is “bad”, I just don’t want anyone discouraged because reading these is pretty fun
ionic swallow
I like the neutral side of town of Salem but I feel like their wincons are either beat everyone else or (what I prefer) accomplish your goal in town and leave
I kinda wanted to create something that could help town or evils by simply having the power stop a player from acting, and add a nerfed guardian angel ability back into the game
upbeat vigil
I like the neutral side of town of Salem but I feel like their wincons are eithe...
sadly neutral is meant to be that
neutral means they don't take up any role or faction and don't have to side anyone, they can side whoever, whenever.
they complete their own goals, whether it's killing all their enemies, killing everyone in the town, or killing their target/completing their specific goals
they're always alone so you can't really change that
with the SOLE exception of neutral pariah which their entire reason to be there is JUST to side evils
arctic grotto
The primary concern for making any role should be if it's fun for all players if it's in play
This would end up being boring/annoying if you ask me
ionic swallow
Acolyte of the deep
Attack: none
Defence: none
Goal: reach Day 7 and leave
Abilities:
Visiting - roleblock and protect the player you visit
Active - give selected player powerful defence during the day. Total uses 1.
Is this set up just cooked?
arctic grotto
my suggestion is to make this role passively harmful to the town
and potentially evils if you want
because inherently this role only needs to... not die and not let the game end before Day 7
ionic swallow
I get it now, it's suppose to be towns problem and it's just an annoyance right now but I feel like many games don't last till day 7?
arctic grotto
no evil has a good reason to kill a role which will just leave anyway and the town has no reason to hang a player that won't harm them
halcyon mist
any day after day 7 ends aren’t that uncommon tbh, unless you’re playing in an apocalypse list
ionic swallow
What if the whole goal of this role was to create a match draw?
halcyon mist
That would be unreasonably hard I think
arctic grotto
well it would need different abilities for that
ionic swallow
It could be made broken in the right way
To delay the game enough for that to ovcur
halcyon mist
I won’t say it won’t work but, it would be really hard to make a role fun to go against with that wincondition
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halcyon mist
<@596457269613559819> has leveled up! **(11 ➜ 12)**
thank you