Neutral Evil Idea I just had

[wintry warren]

Inspired by Executioner

Name: The Insider
Faction: The Insider
Sub-Alignment: Neutral Evil
Win condition: Kill the person who's role you have. If they are town, they must be mislynched. If they are evil, they must be killed at night.

Abilities:

• Inside Job [Passive]: At the start of the game, you get a random role that another person in the match has. This role can't be TGov, TExec, Neutral Outlier, Neutral Evil, or Shroud. If the person who's role you have copied dies in the wrong way (town by dying at night, and evil by lynching), you get a new copied role that fits within Inside Job's requirements.

[wet surge]

"Oh I got Serial Killer"
wins n1

you have Faction and Sub-Alignment swapped

[mellow coral]

Very All Any pilled btw; like this wouldn’t work in a traditional 10v5 list

In a normal game there aren’t going to be a lot of ways for NKs or Coven to die at night

[wintry warren]

you can't win n1?

you don't know WHO you copied

[wintry warren]

the point is that YOU'RE the one who's gonna kill them

You have to find them, prevent them from getting lynched, then kill them

and shroud is not allowed since shroud can't kill shroud

but each of the other nks have a way to kill another one of themself

[wintry warren]

fixed I think?

[void acorn]

"CS but it doesn't get passed around" basically

[wet surge]

ok but what if you dont get a role with killpower

[wintry warren]

ig its similar, but it doesn't have weird shenanigans

[wet surge]

like any non-CK coven role

[wintry warren]

you will have necronomicon the same night the copied role does

you are literally a carbon copy of your target at all times

[void acorn]

"Just hope that the coven gives the book to the role that you happen to have"

[wet surge]

The Monarch has knighted @7
The Monarch has knighted @5

[wintry warren]

you can't be TGov

[wintry warren]

eventually it will
and if it gets lynched first, new target

it is impossible to start with a role you can't get a win with

the only way to lose is to be the last person alive and have your target die wrong, or to be lynched

[void acorn]

Wait so this can dupe the CS role

[wintry warren]

no it can't

because it can't be NO

[void acorn]

What if your target gets swapped

[wintry warren]

your target is still the person who has the role

[next sleet]

so this is exe if your target is a townie?

@wintry warren can it be amne?

[wintry warren]

YES

[next sleet]

can it be retri?

[wintry warren]

yup, and becomes the same role with amne, but changes targets if the target becomes tpow

[next sleet]

is this a way to have a easy evil ret?

[wintry warren]

yup

[next sleet]

hmm

[wintry warren]

you are a carbon copy

[next sleet]

awww

[wintry warren]

you can't raise evils

unless you're Necro

[next sleet]

lamee

wait

can this get jackal???

[void acorn]

Jack is a NO

[next sleet]

or vamp??? - nvm

[next sleet]

oh yea

lol

uhh

what about ego?

would this become a ego copyy

or a townie version?

what about tts?

what if you get something like death?

[wintry warren]

carbon copy

[void acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/made-in-heaven-gif-2288445034474793012

[wintry warren]

of the ROLE

[void acorn]

Town seeing the game speed up twice in a single day

[next sleet]

ah

so can this get transformed apoc?

orrr

cause like imagine having a admi one

[clever orchid]

Self upvote

[next sleet]

the admi dies

the sc transforms

and then it becomes death

[grave estuary]

I dont really get it

isnt this just exmnesiac

amnecutioner

[wintry warren]

kind of, but it hurts town by wanting the evil target to NOT be lynched, allowing it another night to hurt town
it can also hurt town by mislynching their town

[next sleet]

"The Insider has become Death, Destroyer of Worlds and Horseman of the Apocalypse!"

[void acorn]

Basically, exe but now it's anti-everyone and has potential killpower

[wintry warren]

Honestly, im not sure how that would work out

WAIT I KNOW

[clever orchid]

So old Exe

[wintry warren]

Insider will lose if they get lynched, or if anyone other than real death gets lynched

insider leaves town before death triggers tho

[next sleet]

hmmm

if it's paci

what happens if it rallys everyone?

and it doesnt get lynched

[wintry warren]

can't be, thats TGov

[next sleet]

oh yea

what about hex bombing?

[wintry warren]

thats a day kill

[next sleet]

nothing wrong with cpow right?

[wintry warren]

you lose if you hex bomb

[next sleet]

LOL

what if the hex master you are targeting is a townie tho?

[wintry warren]

You have to mislynch townies

and kill evils AT NIGHT

[next sleet]

aww so daytime deaths dont work??

[wintry warren]

Nope

I don't want you to just conjurer insta win

[next sleet]

fair

but you dont know who your target is

do you?

[wintry warren]

however, you CAN conj, trick town into thinking its a conj game

and that its safe to fc

when BOOM

second meteor

[wintry warren]

again, aren't insta wins

[wintry warren]

true

but conj is still way easier to win with than sk or ww

with sk being even harder

[next sleet]

so if you get hex master your pretty much fucked

inquis but worse kinda

[wintry warren]

true, until it gets book

[next sleet]

inquis+exe but worse

[wintry warren]

or, lynch hex

work with town if you need to

then try to solve your new target

[radiant brook]

why is shroud specifically excluded

[wintry warren]

shroud can't kill shroud

thats why

[wintry warren]

if shroud got a buff to do powerful attack, it'd be no longer excluded

[frail sentinel]

out of all the nks, why shroud

[wintry warren]

Shroud can't kill shroud

all the other NKs can kill other NKs

[frail sentinel]

id also say arso cant kill arso

[wet surge]

ignite happens before clean

[frail sentinel]

thats

thats what i said basically

[wet surge]

then, why'd you say that

that isnt what you said

ignite can kill the arso before they clean themselves

[frail sentinel]

i forgot to add the “without dying”

[wet surge]

they win and get Invincible Defense

because their target died

[frail sentinel]

i feel like that just goes into priority shenanigans

[void acorn]

Wouldn't that happen on the same "priority"

But I'm not familiar with tos coding so idk

[wet surge]

presumably I guess it wouldn't work as currently stated but if this was added they'd probably fix prio

[frail sentinel]

also pirate, and vanilla ds

[wintry warren]

starvation is unstoppable+ I believe

[wet surge]

it is not

the only Unstoppable+ attacks are Hex Master and Death

[wintry warren]

but also I'd make this role winning be higher prioity than arso

since thats how other NE's work

speak of the arso LOL

[frail sentinel]

well no… cause it has to kill someone with the arsos attack

the other ne’s are presumably higher in priority

[wintry warren]

If I douse arso, then ignite, even if the other one cleans, it will die, and because it died, I'll get unstoppable defense
so ig it'd be same priority as arso ignite

[frail sentinel]

then priority shenanigans

cause youre also doused

[wet surge]

you're thinking about this too linearly what would really happen is

check condition (isnt met, they're alive)
ignite (you both die)
check condition (you're dead boo hoo)

you'd need a seperate priority specifically for this role igniting

[wintry warren]

ohhh

[frail sentinel]

like itd be
kill everyone else
check condition
kill self if condition not met

[wet surge]

alternatively NEs could just come back to life if their condition is met and they would've died

which would solve all of these priority problems

but I imagine its more complicated than that

[frail sentinel]

but liike

yeaah

its defo not that easy

[limpid forum]

you can if you are evil

[wintry warren]

only if the copied ret is evil

[limpid forum]

thats kinda overcomplicated

[wintry warren]

its literally just
you copy the role and faction of your target, but need to kill them a certain way to win

[limpid forum]

copying the faction part makes it complicated

what happens if they are soul swapped

[wintry warren]

Your target is the role

not the player

[limpid forum]

yeah but do you turn to cursed soul yourself?

[wintry warren]

you effectively do

you treat the role as if you were CS faction

or whatever faction got the role

[limpid forum]

what if the role got retrained by coven leader

[wintry warren]

you get retrained too

you will also have book the same night they do

and if you're apoc, your meter will be the same as the OG apoc you copied, regardless of what you do

however as baker, more people will live famine

[limpid forum]

so if a townie got the evil role, so you have to lynch them or get them killed?

[wintry warren]

if its town faction, you have to lynch

[limpid forum]

so if apoc got coroner you have to kill them at night as coroner

[wintry warren]

yes, the unfortunate shenanigans of CS

but ANY role can kill them

[limpid forum]

how does this work with tt

[wintry warren]

if you copied tt, they are evil

and you have to kill them

at night

[limpid forum]

and ego?

[wintry warren]

same thing

[limpid forum]

do you also copy the speedup?

[wintry warren]

nope, because you're NE. you just treat the role as IF you were ego

ego is evil role, so you treat role as evil

plus all the inno/sus/ ti shenanigans involved with everything

[limpid forum]

what if you copy yourself

[frail sentinel]

you physically couldnt kill ego though since youre evil

[wintry warren]

true, you'd have to find them, then get vigi to kill them

[wintry warren]

obviously, you are not a valid target. if you copy another insider, you will be told so and copy the role they are copying, but your target is the other insider

[wintry warren]

or lynch them, and get a new target

[frail sentinel]

i dont think this is good design ngl

[wintry warren]

I liked all the strategy involved

if you get a townie, you're just exe

until they die

but if you get an evil

[void acorn]

So it's exe but swingy

[wintry warren]

you specifically DONT want them to be lynched

[limpid forum]

would be better as an exe overhaul

[wintry warren]

honestly, that was my original plan, but I thought I'd get more flamed for that

[frail sentinel]

dude what

exe right now is in a good middle ground imo
jest is the problem

[wintry warren]

other way around

imo

[frail sentinel]

and this
this just has so many edge cases

[wintry warren]

exe is genuinely the least fun role

[frail sentinel]

oh i love punishing town for doing their job

[void acorn]

Tbh I would prefer old exe over this

[limpid forum]

nah i like exe right now

[wintry warren]

oh, I genuinely don't mind current jester, even when im the town that gets haunted

because hanging jester is towns fault

[frail sentinel]

yea

they hung someone for looking evil

[limpid forum]

me when i lynch the doom instead of the 500 coven(they are evil, so i m just doing my job)

[wintry warren]

I genuinely HATE exe
losing as it isn't fun
playing before death/win isn't fun
losing town to it isn't fun
WINNING AS EXE IS NOT FUN

there is NO part of executioner that is ENJOYABLE

[frail sentinel]

just troll

[wintry warren]

I have hundreds of cursed scrolls for exe just because of how awful it is

[void acorn]

Town cannot afford to not lynch the jester because they're a living -1 vote

[wintry warren]

that typically isn't an issue

[frail sentinel]

…

[wintry warren]

usually its a "tk get em at night" moment

[frail sentinel]

later in the game it becomes a much larger issue

[limpid forum]

let coven kill them

[frail sentinel]

and if the jest can hide well enough youre not gonna get tk on them now will ya

[wintry warren]

jester doesn't WANT to hide

[void acorn]

What if town doesn't have a direct killing role?

[limpid forum]

lynch a coven

[frail sentinel]

well yea sure

but like

[wintry warren]

well then we do our best to make sure they're the last lynch, or to get jester on their side

[frail sentinel]

thats the play YOU want to do

[void acorn]

"what if we hoped that coven makes a mistake"

[frail sentinel]

people have different mentalities

[wintry warren]

but no one is talking about how unhealthy executioner is

[frail sentinel]

cause

it

isnt???

[wintry warren]

a role is truly terrible when there is NO ONE involved enjoys the role, on EITHER side

[limpid forum]

how exactly is it unhealthy?

[frail sentinel]

town makes a mistake by lynching townie
exe punishes the mistake

[limpid forum]

speak for yourself

[wintry warren]

there is no part of the role where ANYONE can enjoy executioner

[frail sentinel]

jest punishes town for doing well

[void acorn]

Exe is the most healthy NE, you may not like it, but it isn't shit design

[wintry warren]

majority of TOS players I know HATE exe

[frail sentinel]

doomsayer id say is a pretty far 2nd

either that or pirate

but not jest in any case whatsoever

ive gotta go for now

[void acorn]

Exe is literally my favorite role in the game lmao

[limpid forum]

hows hanging a jester punish town more than doom or exe?

[wintry warren]

how...

[limpid forum]

just a random haunt?

than can kill evils?

jester is the most overhated role ever