Witch Buff (Yoru)

[tall stone]

• Changed to a Coven Utility role, and so no longer eats up the CPow slot.
• Now no longer Reveals people (even to themselves), so as to not powercreep PM.

Why?

Witch, in terms of power, is in my opinion around the level of a CU role. They act like a mix of a Necromancer and a PM a lot of the time. Let's be honest, Hex and CL are the real CPow roles, Witch is a mental illness.

I recommend implementing this when a suitable PM tweak is found too.

Also, boiling hot take. All CU roles should have an extra effect with their attack, either directly (witch controlling someone and attacking at the same time) or indirectly (necromancer's roleblock immunity)

[timid quartz]

Technically they all do except PMer lol

Wildling, Pois, and VMer use their abilities on the ones they attack

[sturdy briar]

obviously pm should barrier their target as well

[tall stone]

PM should be overhauled imo

[timid quartz]

Give this guy a

[tall stone]

I just don't have an idea for that

[tall stone]

Poisoner roleblocks and attacks, Wildling does the LOT effect which can be useful for framing people as the killer, and Voodoo's effect is redundant if the target dies

All of them should have a non-redundant effect that makes the attack unique in a way

[timid quartz]

I have always been a proponent of PMer gaining Smog and Pois getting something else as compensation

It could even lose Reveal entirely, having Smog and Barrier

[tall stone]

imagine if PM's harmful potion was smog and PM could smog and attack

discount starspawn

yeah this would be super OP

[timid quartz]

Hardly discounted

[tall stone]

starspawn but you don't need to coordinate with the NP

[timid quartz]

Yeah

[tall stone]

maybe then

wait

what if

[timid quartz]

Smog could even give PMer info similar to SS

since the info isn't as revealing

[tall stone]

pm with harmful potion would usually just smog people and with the book they Smoke and attack

[fair bobcat]

always witch NKs into ur coven

[timid quartz]

Or PMer could have Smog, Barrier, and Attack lol

[tall stone]

I want the harmful potion to do something while not using the necronomicon

i think something that isn't smog could be given to it

in a way that makes it balanced if PM has book while also giving it a relevant effect

[plucky viper]

I can't not a doggo

[plucky viper]

Hot but fun

[tall stone]

say hi to Cashew

he's so clingy I love him

[plucky viper]

Hi cashew

[tall stone]

sorry if this causes lag but I have to send these pictures

[plucky viper]

I'm running off of a really good potato so no lag whatsoever and thanks for the pics

[tall stone]

:3

[fair bobcat]

:3

[vast scroll]

make pm like wolf seer and it just reveals immediately

[frosty heron]

This would just overshadow Poisoner

[ember snow]

@frosty heron has leveled up! (15 ➜ 16)

[frosty heron]

Why roleblock the Vigilante when I can control them into killing the Jailor?

[vast scroll]

well Poisoners abilities are actually fake claimable and Witching isnt

[frosty heron]

Still, in terms of utility, control>roleblock.

If we stop making a role overshadow another

Just to overshadow another.

Then the change might aswell never have been done.

Control was originally for a npah and not a Mafia/Coven alignsment for a reason.

[vast scroll]

witch for the win

[frosty heron]

Idk why bmg had to make it coven

Rather than just a npah

[vast scroll]

cuz they needed a equal amount of cpows probably

still not really a excuse

but even now tuba wants there to be a replacement instead of just adding np witch

[frosty heron]

Plus the cpows ended up being anti nk and current hex master.

[frosty heron]

I feel like the coven executioner concept is interesting

It rewards coven for playing well

Actually, I might lowkey share the witch rework I had in mind soon.

[tall stone]

@frosty heron why

give criticism

oh wait

[frosty heron]

Me when I have to read

[tall stone]

Poisoner still has a niche

[tall stone]

I just didn't get notified sorry

[frosty heron]

I got apoc role with this msg lmfao

[tall stone]

happy

:3

Anyways

[frosty heron]

Again, why roleblock the vigi, when I can make them kill jailor.

[tall stone]

Poisoner does not get overshadowed by CU Witch

[vast scroll]

poisoners niche is shutting down others and better fake claims, witches niche is being loud but much more powerful shutting them down and controlling them but no fake claim

[frosty heron]

Witch's utility is far more powerful.

[tall stone]

Sure, that's a thing, but most of the time this is just potential ability

[frosty heron]

Than Poisoner's

[plucky viper]

I get what you're saying, but I do tend to agree with them that the ability to claim tav is not good enough in comparison, In fact, a lot of poisoners don't claim Tav so that they can roleblock whoever they want

[tall stone]

Pois has 2 different utilities that are fake claimable

[tall stone]

You can also claim socialite

[frosty heron]

Fake claiming is less useful than being able to use other's ability on whoever you want.

[tall stone]

Poisoner has some flexibility with fake claims

[plucky viper]

You can, but again it's not that good

[tall stone]

By this logic Necromancer is also overshadowing Poisoner

[vast scroll]

witch doesnt have the utility to roleblock the same person like how u can with roleblocking someone and the player running into a uo the next night

[plucky viper]

It does, but a lot of the time it foregoes those so that it can use its ability better

[tall stone]

The only thing with Necromancer is it needs resource management through the corpses

[frosty heron]

Necromancer cant directly rb people, so no

[tall stone]

Witch needs information too

[plucky viper]

Because if you claim Tav who mysteriously roleblocked the confirmed sheriff people are just going to assume your pois

[frosty heron]

Only if they get a tav/soci/pois

[tall stone]

Similar to necro

[frosty heron]

Exactly, fake claiming as pois requires you to use awful use of your abilities.

"Why wasnt soci on the jailor with no tp?"

"Why did tav rb the seer?"

[plucky viper]

It's quite similar to wild where if you claim tav you just become a really good claimer but being really good at claiming isn't that good

[frosty heron]

Atp, the utility of poisoner becames low to none. Sometimes even negative.

[tall stone]

the way to do this is to rb suspected TKs and stuff

if anyone asks you can say you thought they were conspicuous

[frosty heron]

If they ARE suspected.

[plucky viper]

You can, but that makes your claim a lot worse in some scenarios

[frosty heron]

If you get asked to rb a cov

What do you do.

[tall stone]

roleblock the cov

have someone else take the book

[tall stone]

you can do this right

[frosty heron]

No..?

[tall stone]

bruhhhhhhhhh

[frosty heron]

Pois cant rb coven

I think

[plucky viper]

Part of the problem with this is I'd say about half the time I don't see pois claiming Tav and with this witch If you don't claim to have, you're just a worse role than which

[vast scroll]

just make a play with a coven member

[tall stone]

covens should be able to use abilities on themselves

[vast scroll]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[frosty heron]

Yea but these plays require not visiting. Which can be an issue with roles such as Spy, Track, Lo...

[tall stone]

including attacks

imagine illu committing suicide for the bit

[plucky viper]

Even if boys can't, you can effectively do the same effect by just claiming to roleblock them but a lot of roles like voodoo you can't claim to roleblock without them losing use of their ability

And now they're sus

[vast scroll]

me when I vm my own coven member

[frosty heron]

Roblox???

[tall stone]

It's free

[plucky viper]

I hate speech to text

[frosty heron]

Bro wants some robux rn😔

[tall stone]

Anyways poisoner does have some advantages and disadvantages compared to witch

[plucky viper]

It has one which is ability to claim but it sacrifices a lot by using it

[frosty heron]

No, just like I said. If you fake tav/soci as pois your utility becomes low to none.

At that point, why sacrifice so much utility when you can just, have a Witch.

[tall stone]

Sure, controlling is usually better than roleblocking or UOing, but poisoner has better flexibility and doesn't out themselves by using their ability

Witch does out

[plucky viper]

You could definitely argue that this is a side grade, but it is significantly and I mean very significantly in witches favor

[tall stone]

Witch is way easier to use, yes

[frosty heron]

Getting rbed during pois game without any tavs/socis to confirm rb is a way to track pois.

[plucky viper]

Again, the only situation where that's useful is if you claim Tav and if you do, you lose a lot

[frosty heron]

Plus if you rb someone who is trusted.

You pretty much exposed pois is in play.

[plucky viper]

Well I would say it's easier. That's not to say that it's equal either

With proper play I think witch is still a lot better

[tall stone]

Could be the case...

What if we buff poisoner too

Or give this witch another small nerf to balance their abilities compared to poisoner

[plucky viper]

I do think that this is overall an interesting idea, but it would need a slight Nerf or something but the problem with the Nerf of something like oh it can't witch evils pretty much only applies in multi-ball which doesn't fix the issue in non multiball

[plucky viper]

We could try that but the problem is poisoners already in a very good state

[vast scroll]

so just

drag witch

to

[tall stone]

Because witch is in a spot where they are undeniably easier to use than CU roles, but also not strong enough to justify being in CPow

[plucky viper]

The problem is I do agree with statements that 2 cpower slots isn't enough

[plucky viper]

Yeah it's in a very bad spot

[vast scroll]

idk I think its fine? heck I think CL should just be the only CPOW its the only role that acts like one

[plucky viper]

I'd be very happy to make it a np if we got another cpow

[tall stone]

what we could do is completely overhaul Witch and add a NP that does what old witch does

[plucky viper]

I think it's the only good cpow but as they say, variety is the spice of life

[tall stone]

Hex is lowkey slept on

[vast scroll]

#1468109565399924878

[vast scroll]

bro thinks hes part of the group

[tall stone]

Hexing basically kills another person later

[vast scroll]

wheres that gif

[tall stone]

that IS an option

but anyways this suggestion isn't about that

[vast scroll]

ye I dont really agree on witch cu

[tall stone]

what small nerf could reduce Witch to around Poisoner level

[vast scroll]

its just too much of a powerhouse role

[tall stone]

even without role reveal

...

[vast scroll]

Witch is arguably better than poisoner no matter where you put it

At least power wise

[tall stone]

what if we make controlled people immune to being witched forever

...i think it would be too polarizing

[plucky viper]

That's the question

[vast scroll]

now thats just too punishing

I wouldnt mind a witch-sidegrade CD

that does silent redirection in favor of deception

[plucky viper]

I'm actually kind of interested in that

[tall stone]

...silent redirection...

maybe the nerf I suggested + thaf

that*

[plucky viper]

I think witch is is like the only role that exists right now that could be made silent

[tall stone]

so the witched people don't know they've been witched

[tall stone]

silent witch makes sense for a CPow

[plucky viper]

Fresh actually made a really interesting in my opinion. Good rework that is silent

Though it wasn't very popular

[tall stone]

Very experimental

But yeah it's not evil vote manip cause you never manip the votes

I like the concept but not on witch

[vast scroll]

I like the overhauled version imo but it probably would be its own role

[tall stone]

we already have banshee as an extra coven so making another one isn't far fetched

[plucky viper]

Fresh actually made two witch reworks

One of them was the vote manip and the other was the silent

[vast scroll]

it could be the cpow replacement in favor for witch np

[tall stone]

yeah i guess

i would need to make a biiiiiiiiig suggestion though

[vast scroll]

call it The Switcharoo

[tall stone]

nah

witch should be a part of the coven

you can add a NP that does the same thing current witch does but the "witch" character should stay as coven

sure they could be overhauled but still