Poisoner (Coven Utility)

[vapid knot]

The Poisoner is a Coven Utility role which can disrupt town, or hide amongst town roles which would cause disruption.

Drink (♾️)

• Each night, choose a player to drink with. Their ability is roleblocked, and they become hungover the following day and night.
• Hungover players are immune to being roleblocked.

Smog (♾️)

• Alternatively, produce a cloud of poisonous smog at your target's house to block anyone from visiting with Unknown Obstacles & learn if you did block anyone.
• If the Necronomicon Holder would astrally visit that player, they are still blocked from visiting.

The Poisoner can directly disrupt strong members of town, or indirectly block townies from being able to use their abilities & gain information. Their ability also mirrors that of a Tavern Keeper or Socialite, allowing them to bluff these roles most effectively.

What are your thoughts on the role?

• How strong is the role compared to other roles in their faction?
• Do you think the role is fun to play as?
• Is the role fun to play against?
• Do you have any experiences or stories with this role to share?

<@&1428003109862510732>

[turbid prawn]

Omg

[vapid knot]

It was the poisoner guys they roleblocked the spy that's why they showed up a day late

[small lichen]

I believe it

[robust pilot]

Wait what's this role again?

[turbid prawn]

@that one person that wanted this

[turbid prawn]

Poison dart frog

[robust pilot]

Anyways, plz split Smog and Poison 🙏

having both the disruption abilities on one role limits Coven's disruption

[turbid prawn]

If that were to happen pois would need smth new

Pois would just suck

[compact otter]

give banshee smog

[turbid prawn]

Good idea

[robust pilot]

No? Pois with only RB's not bad

[turbid prawn]

Really?

[robust pilot]

yeah

[turbid prawn]

But like really?

[robust pilot]

yeah

[compact otter]

You underestimate the power of rbs lmao, most of the time I never see pois use smog

[turbid prawn]

Are you sure

[robust pilot]

yeah

[turbid prawn]

I like faking soci

I'm just really really really low budget tt

[tribal olive]

i will ingest all the poison in the world

[tropic anvil]

Is pois forg?

[turbid prawn]

Yeh

It dart frog

[tropic anvil]

I never saw it till now

I thought it was some sort of beverage

[fossil thistle]

good role but i think smog needs to be moved yeah

give it to someone else because like

or better yet

poisoner moved to CK

[turbid prawn]

How???????????

[fossil thistle]

and can poison

[turbid prawn]

That just sounds bad

[fossil thistle]

genuinely idk why we dont have poisoner ck

[fossil thistle]

not the old interpretation 💀 iw ould kill myself

[turbid prawn]

Because it would suck to play against

[compact otter]

Because poison was ass for both sides

[turbid prawn]

Oh thank god

[tropic anvil]

Idk, it looked very beverage shaped

Lemme bust out my art kit

[vapid knot]

People would kick off though

[turbid prawn]

No??????????

[compact otter]

Bro needs glasses

[vapid knot]

People hated consort/bootlegger even though it was good

[tropic anvil]

Probably

[turbid prawn]

I wouldn't mind it if it also got smth else to go along with it

[fossil thistle]

cuz perma rb

[robust pilot]

I guess it does need something else yeah.

People generally don't want to remove Poisoner's RB with no compensation

[turbid prawn]

I'm one one those ppl

[robust pilot]

compensation: give it Banshee's Deafen

[tropic anvil]

Apparently the mention of consort/escort is taboo in vanilla toscord

[fossil thistle]

why remove rb from pois

[tropic anvil]

Drink

[fossil thistle]

the hell am i being skulled for

[compact otter]

That's not what they said lmao

[robust pilot]

I said to move Smog to another role

[turbid prawn]

You said rb lol

We just didn't notice

[compact otter]

Wait yeah, you did

Why did my brain auto correct it

[turbid prawn]

Yeah lol

[dreamy fog]

i think we should remove poison from poisoner

[turbid prawn]

Pois in it's current state is good but could be better aka sharing the love

[dreamy fog]

anyways i personally think roleblocking is a strong ability on its own

[gusty lagoon]

Smog on PM makes sense from a balance perspective

[compact otter]

Unironically that was the best change

[robust pilot]

whoops lmao

[turbid prawn]

It is but it's more fun to give it smth else even if niche

[gusty lagoon]

Poisoner is probably the only CU that I can say is well balanced lmao

[robust pilot]

It also makes sense from a lore perspective

[turbid prawn]

Really????? I think it's an amazing role

[tropic anvil]

No ik necro is unbalanced

[compact otter]

Either PM or banshee could receive it, since neither of them have any real niche

[dreamy fog]

the idea of having a role that both investigates and disrupts (as separate abilities) is kinda weird

[gusty lagoon]

scream shield lmao

[robust pilot]

I think Necro should be low priority, but I wouldn't call it well balanced lol

[cedar willow]

I mean banshee makes sense

[turbid prawn]

Pm has the niche of claiming invest really well when there is multiple factions

[cedar willow]

they scream so loud that it locks the door

[gusty lagoon]

yeah banshee getting it is fine ig

[dreamy fog]

yeah

[turbid prawn]

Banshee has a niche already. Making people pissed off

[cedar willow]

Banshee is bad

[dreamy fog]

i dont think anyone is disagreeing with that sentiment

[turbid prawn]

Yeah but pois needs smth to compensate, anything I don't care how niche.

[gusty lagoon]

#1429418154345500763

[robust pilot]

What if Pois gets a 1 time Audit?

[turbid prawn]

That sounds unfun

[robust pilot]

in exchange for Smog

[gusty lagoon]

I'm going to be real, poisoner doesn't need it

it's already strong

[robust pilot]

100%, but I think if Pois is going to lose Smog it would need some sort of compensation

[vapid knot]

I think it would overstep auditor too much anyway tbf

[tropic anvil]

Bashe looks like a its having an identity crisis

[turbid prawn]

Yeah otherwise I specifically will riot

[compact otter]

Honestly, it kinda doesn't

[robust pilot]

I think that's half the reason why Poisoner got Smog in the first place, since it was replacing Poison

[compact otter]

The people will be mad and then it will just die down after a while

[gusty lagoon]

I get poisoner having smog

[turbid prawn]

For me it's not about balance it's about being enjoyable to play and your just nerfing fun

[gusty lagoon]

I"m still not letting go socialite being "introduced"

or about mayor...

[turbid prawn]

That's why I'm fine with it getting smth weak to compensate

[gusty lagoon]

or about cpow-ck bucket in tt lists

[turbid prawn]

Just give it smth tiny

[compact otter]

Yeah but if you never use it then what's the point lol

Since you're going to have the opportunity cost of not rbing

[turbid prawn]

Idk but I want it

[gusty lagoon]

ToS players don't like change

[glad remnant]

Ahhh the most balanced coven role

[turbid prawn]

I'm fine with change for some roles

[turbid prawn]

I am aware how dumb this sounds

[craggy island]

poisoner gameplay would be boring if there wasnt Smog

Roleblock the Psychic on N2. ok now roleblock the investigator on N3. ok now roleblock the psychic again

[turbid prawn]

Exactly

It adds a little more variety

Not much but smth

[gusty lagoon]

which is what you would do anyways?

lol

what is your point

[craggy island]

you could Smog TPLO calls or confirmed people to possibly stop multiple TIs

[gusty lagoon]

Yeah, night 1

[turbid prawn]

Ruin mass

[gusty lagoon]

which our point is another role can do

[robust pilot]

Potion Master gameplay would be boring if there wasnt Barrier.

Reveal the Bodyguard N1. Ok now Reveal the Admirer N2. Ok now Reveal the Retributionist N3.

[turbid prawn]

It can stop mass

[compact otter]

That niche would still be there, just on a different role

[turbid prawn]

Yeah but it makes pois less fun

[craggy island]

ok maybe my point was stupid

[gusty lagoon]

yeah it would be wouldn't it smirks

[compact otter]

And this time you actually get to do that without the opportunity cost

[turbid prawn]

No it was good

Just also not perfect

[gusty lagoon]

I think the biggest issue is moving smog to another coven role is messy

the game is already starting to get super messy

[craggy island]

i just like having multiple abilities so theres many different strategies you can do :(

[glad remnant]

Poisoner and tavern keeper are the only roles in this game that shouldn't be touched ever again

[robust pilot]

I do agree that while Poisoner doesn't deserve something to replace Smog, it likely needs it for casual appeal

[turbid prawn]

Yep I want one tiny thing

[glad remnant]

Why should we appeal to casuals

[gusty lagoon]

yeah pretty much

[gusty lagoon]

because that's all there is anymore

lol

[craggy island]

cause 99% of this game's playerbase is casuals

[turbid prawn]

For me it's just about making it a little more complex

[craggy island]

im a casual :D

[glad remnant]

But poisoner is fine as is

Why change it?

[gusty lagoon]

it's not even that complex

[robust pilot]

If Coven had a second UOer or a second RBer, it'd be fine

[turbid prawn]

I know but it's smth

[gusty lagoon]

because other roles are not fine

[robust pilot]

the issue is the fact that all of disruption's centered around one role

[compact otter]

Opportunity cost, it overloads the potential claim space for roles

[glad remnant]

Baker should be able to give UOs

Instead of rbs

[compact otter]

Relying on a single role

[gusty lagoon]

baker needs a full overhaul first

[robust pilot]

which further makes tavs confirmable lol

[gusty lagoon]

instead of a bandage fix

[glad remnant]

Not really

[compact otter]

Tavs are instantly confirmed in apoc modes

[gusty lagoon]

yeah it does

100%

[robust pilot]

thank you for saying bandage instead of bandaid lol

[gusty lagoon]

adhesive bandage fr

[glad remnant]

Anyways keep poisoner as is

[gusty lagoon]

That's fine, it's just other coven roles are kinda suffering

[glad remnant]

Agreed

For vanilla at least

Dreamweaver, wildling, jinx, illusionist all need some changes in vanilla

[compact otter]

We got the DW and Illusionist fix, now the wild and jinx fix.....

[glad remnant]

Wilding fix is do easy just port the btos2 Wilding

[turbid prawn]

Jonx is just in a very bad state rn

[glad remnant]

Jinx should be reworked

[compact otter]

Jinx would be better off deleted

[restive hemlock]

Mmmh lead poisoning

[turbid prawn]

I like the name so imo a massive rework is better

[glad remnant]

Anyways imma go back to playing triple draft cr tournament

[turbid prawn]

Gl

[compact otter]

Making Rit-Conj more likely is better than the abomination that is jinx

[gusty lagoon]

I'm fine with that

[craggy island]

i love the catboy though :(

we need catboys in town of salem 2

[gusty lagoon]

just use a mod

[compact otter]

There is no real niche that it could fill

[gusty lagoon]

there

problem solved

[fossil thistle]

Poisone

• Coven Killing
  Attributes:
  Because of our budget too tight (we had to buy another luxury mansion for a new CK), we had to sell off the last letter of the role.

• Abilities

  • Poison
    Roleblocks target
    Poisons target
  • Roleblock
    Roleblock a target of choice when not poisoning

• Keywords:
  Poison
  When target is poisoned, they die

[craggy island]

ok

[compact otter]

The other CKs are there to prevent metas, Jinx doesn't really do that nor can I really think of a "meta" that it prevents or could

Maybe tplo?

[turbid prawn]

Your just not thimking hard enough

[turbid prawn]

That's star....

[livid burrow]

Your niche is to hit defense on a visitor N1 and get outed D2

[compact otter]

Yeah, so proving my point lol

[turbid prawn]

I got an idea

Give jinx a gun

That stops the meta of staying alive

[robust pilot]

moving the RB exclusively to CK would make a rit/conj/jinx game confirm Tavs

Really wacky idea:

• Pois gets a 1 time use triple roleblock where they can RB three players at once lol

[livid burrow]

Tracker: I got some insane results last night

[robust pilot]

The RBs will be Astral ig

[turbid prawn]

Make it 2 so they can fake seer

[fossil thistle]

it has inf charges

you have free +1 kill cuz why would it not make sense

actually if town doesnt find poisone fast enough

a feast happens n4 and they all get poisoned and die

[robust pilot]

true

[turbid prawn]

I got an idea for what smog can be replaced with

Pois now has the day ability serve pie

If anyone decides to eat it

They get the poison effect

From old pois

Also it's not reportable

[fossil thistle]

add a town baker that gives buffs

and you have a choice to eat it

but baker and pois has the same thing

yk... thats a decent idea

[compact otter]

Give poisoner bestow, trust

[fiery oyster]

imo Poisoner is like 4 roles in the game that shouldn't be changed unless it's a global overarching change to game mechanics, such as generalized disruption.
It just does it's job very well

I can understand splitting off Smog to buff Coven by diversifying it's disruption, but I would prefer coming up with new buffs or abilities to do that instead

For example, not even saying this is a particularly good concept, but that Hex Bounce idea that someone came up with some time ago

[proven totem]

@fiery oyster has leveled up! (26 ➜ 27)

[winged orbit]

HOLY I dont read

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1186570213077041236/1392833339768963153/attachment-2-1.gif

[fiery oyster]

average tos player d9

[winged orbit]

Im gonna self-necronomicon attack

[winged orbit]

real

[turbid prawn]

lol

[restive hemlock]

and I would fucking do it again

[empty wolf]

poisoner is a role

[late crescent]

Dreamweave + smog

Guaranteed insomnia

[robust pilot]

I still think Pois needs to lose Smog

[vapid knot]

why

[robust pilot]

because restricting both restriction abilities to one role is restricting

[turbid prawn]

The idea is to disrupt the disruption category

[vapid knot]

I meannnnnnnnnnnn

I think I'm neutral towards that

I guess it depends what you mean

Restricting how

[robust pilot]

One role having two of the three key disruption abilities (four if you count jail) has it so

1. there's less of a chance for Coven to have disruption in their lineup
2. even if Poisoner spawns, they cannot utilize both abilities at once due to its limitations
3. there's more confirmability for Town with those abilities
4. Poisoner dying essentially removes two distinct tools from Coven's arsenal

[vapid knot]

4 & 3 are fair points

If the poisoner dies then that's good for tav/soci stonks

1 though, is that necessary?

Like I don't think having specifically UO or RB or Witch or anything is essential for coven

Idk I have never loaded into a game that doesn't have pois or witch and gone "it is so joever", honestly there's plenty of strong coven comps without these abilities specifically

Plus there just wasn't UO at all before that so

Idk I think the only point that really matters is 3 & even then there's Dreamweaver as well

[robust pilot]

I see it as an issue of choosing one or the other to fake for the most part

[vapid knot]

Huh

[robust pilot]

obviously claimbagging isn't the biggest usecase of pois, but if there was a confirmed UO and a confirmed roleblock, Town knows (at least in vanilla) that one of those were town

[vapid knot]

I mean I don't think that's bad

[robust pilot]

I mostly play vanilla (despite spending much more time in modded discord lol) but if dreamweaver was ported there I wouldn't mind nearly as much

but in vanilla specifically disruption is a weirdly town centric tool and I personally don't like that

[vapid knot]

I meaaannnn

Tavern Keeper basically exists to confirm itself most of the time

Well okay no

It's the only consistent thing about tav

That's what I meant to say

RBs aren't that helpful for town because they just.. arbitrarily don't work half of the time

TOS 1 never had this issue but TOS 2 so many attackers are roleblock immune

[robust pilot]

there's probably some outsiders in BotC that have more positive utility than Tav does in ToS2 lol

[vapid knot]

I mean okay no

tav is still positive utility overall

You confirm yourself, and are at the very worst a Pois or DW

In exchange for someone's night ability but if that person is a marsh/pros/mayor they don't care

Like your ability is still useful overall because it's confirmable

I do get the concern of, pois can't fake everything at once but well I mean

If you spilt it up only on the basis that coven needs to be able to claimbag more I don't think that's the best logic

I think from a non-claimbag perspective Poisoner having the two tools to disrupt town's abilities in different ways depending on the situation is very helpful

[robust pilot]

it's less "coven needs to claimbag" and more "coven needs to be able to say the tav/soc claim is a claimbagging pois"

[vapid knot]

If you know a particular threat, roleblock them. If you know someone is going to be confirmed or a teammate will be found sus, UO them

[vapid knot]

I disagree honestly

Like okay I'm not defending the fact that these roles are confirmable in the first place but like

It's important that the town's entire info supply isn't completely arbitrary

I think it's good that coven can't be faking literally everything, only a tav or a socialite can be coven so that coven has to actuall pair & act as a team in order to push out an opposing RB/UO claim

[robust pilot]

regardless, I personally would rather multiple roles that can fit different types of disruption than just put it into the super disruptor.

Like, I personally wouldn't like it if Conjurer has its meteor but also blood ritual and would prefer those abilities split as well

or if VMer could choose to either silence or to Deafen

[vapid knot]

I honestly don't see why

This leads to more stale coven team comps if anything

Like this is when you had mafia consisting of GF, Mafioso, Disguiser, Framer like wow

Excellent we are really covering a lot of ground here

Even stuff like PM/Wildling doing extremely similar things in different ways, I don't think that's a good thing

If there was pois & a seperate UO role I'd be like. Wow, excellent when they both spawned

[robust pilot]

Semi-related, if Enchanter steals Illusionist's Illusion gimmick wholesale I wouldn't mind all that much

Though I don't think Poisoner should only be roleblocks and the UO-centric role should only be UOs.

like, if Pois turned into conlegger bootsort it would be quite lame

[vapid knot]

Oh yeah no having a role dedicated to making good look evil and that's it, and a role dedicated to making scum look good and that's it was really not a great idea

Ok so like

What

I need to see an example of what you mean

[robust pilot]

UO centric is easy, just give it Isolate info. Works even better if its being given to PMer

roleblock is a little wackier, but I've seen ideas of giving it a targeted day roleblock or toggleable silent roleblocks

[vapid knot]

How does that change much though

You get a sprinkle of info sure but like

I fail to see the justification for that being its own role

It works for starspawn when Starspawn is actually trying to find teammates as a solo NP but for coven?

I mean I guess you can argue it's gonna stop people claiming UO because otherwise they get ritted but like

I don't see how these two roles would be distinct enough at all

[robust pilot]

to be fair with your example, disg/framer and GF/mafioso filled niches that are much closer to each other compared to what a dedicated UOer and a dedicated RBer would fill

[vapid knot]

Not really?

It's the difference between roleblocking a specific player to prevent their ability & placing UO on a different player to prevent that same visitor's ability

They both stop the ability it's basically the same niche

[robust pilot]

btw, you mentioned the UO one being not enough, but how about this one?

[vapid knot]

I mean

[robust pilot]

one is targetted and another is direct.

It's like saying ambusher and mafioso are the same niche

[vapid knot]

Day roleblocks if you don't mind outting that you're in play ig ?

It would only be useful when you're not claiming tav

[vapid knot]

No because like.. ambusher gets extra kills

[robust pilot]

and a UOer to an RBer gets extra disruption lmao

[vapid knot]

That's like saying the jinx is basically just the bookholder as a role

[vapid knot]

That's not

This is not the same thing at all

Like I'm saying the point of mafioso is to be the consistent nightly kill of the mafia
The point of the ambusher is to get extra kills on top of that

The point of RB is to prevent your opponents abilities from working
The point of UO is to prevent your opponents abilities from working

I just think it's the whole identity of Poisoner to prevent their opponents from using their abilities at crucial times and don't see much reason that needs to be split

Something like Potion Master, being fr that role's purpose is basically to be a consig

And fwiw PM and Wildling both having separate information abilities is also not ideal because if you spawn with one or the other you're like, okay sure, but if they both spawn it's really not helpful

En plus just in general, roles want to have strong identities because just in general that's a thing in games where people can immediately connect with something if they understand quickly what the point is

It's the same as having good distinct character designs, mechanics, etc etc etc

Which, poisoner is the role that blocks abilities

Don't get me wrong neither of those ideas you said are necessarily bad either but it's just like. The UO one having info as a secondary gimmick means it begins to leech into other identities so now you have purposes bleeding over between multiple roles which greatly lessens the actual enjoyment people would get from getting this role

The RB one is fine but it's still like. I genuinely think that these work best both being on Pois in terms of coven

If you wanted to separate it, imo the abilities would have to make sense on a distinct role that also has the option to claimbag similar to pois.

Random example that doesn't super work but gets my point across, something like a Jailor that has UO separate as only a part of its ability rather than the primary focus.

This obviously doesn't work for several reasons but my point is that that the identity of this Jailor-like isn't being the UO role as its main ability, something that had actual thought put into it could have a separate identity that also allows it to fake UO roles.

[robust pilot]

That is ideal lol. If Pois loses Smog, it'll gain something as compensation that still allows it to claimbag effectively as a Tavern Keeper, and whatever gains UO would also get something to differentiate it that's not Guest List.

obviously the goal isn't claimbagging; it's giving Coven more tools to restrict movement

[vapid knot]

Why is this necessary

Like I straight up don't think that having abilities to restrict your opponents should be a fundemental design goal

Not that it's wrong to have this but like, why is this a goal?

[robust pilot]

More tools to physically slow down Town is fun in my eyes.

[vapid knot]

How

[robust pilot]

Socity 😔

[vapid knot]

Like genuinely in terms of gameplay on both sides what is engaging about that

[robust pilot]

The idea of roleblocks and UOs is a form of information in an of itself

That's why

[vapid knot]

Ok go on

I feel like my tone looks really hostile here I'm really sorry 😭 I genuinely am not trying to be

Yeah GO ON then 😡 EXPLAIN 😡 you WONT

[earnest mango]

mom am scared

[robust pilot]

Hitting UO on a target as TI could imply that that player is actually evil, especially if that target isn't one where town would protect.

Getting Roleblocked or claiming Roleblocked in key moments implies there's an evil Roleblocker in play that's trying to stifle progress. If a player claims roleblocked when they were going to get information (i.e. Psychic on even night) it very lightly confirms them as good

[vapid knot]

These discussions get proper rowdy they do, not for the feint of heart

[earnest mango]

impressive for non illterate individuals

wait what nvm

[robust pilot]

In the same vein, evils having the ability to UO prevents key players (notably TI and TK) from visiting other key players (notably teammates). It could also be used as a framing device in some wifom scenarios.

Also Roleblock is Roleblock lol

I enjoy disruption as a tool to decipher and a tool to utilize

And I'm sad the best ones are all limited behind one role

Instead of two+

[robust pilot]

Its really difficult to convey emotions through messages don't worry lol

[vapid knot]

So, I actually agree with this, and this applies to all loud evil abilities under the whole "Wine in front of me" type gameplay. It typically not only applies to roleblocks, but also Nightkills, other disruption like Witch controls, deafening, silencing, etc. The only reason it often doesn't is because TOS has too many abilities that force these roles to play suboptimally regardless, with oversatruation in visit confirmation, protection, tracking, etc. (unrelated to your prior point, but still, RB and UO are the least disrupted abilities and so can play into this best)

I will however say that I don't think this actually supports your earlier point. I need to make it clear, this applies to loud evil abilities. You can't really have a role that plays exclusively like this & also have it act as claimbag - and if it's acting as claimbag, it's not engaging with this gameplay loop because it has to act safely & predictably to appear town (due to TOS meta, to a major extent)

So then like... Poisoner is most fun when it can just play for evil and then both sides can have fun, Poisoner disrupting powerful town members and Town being able to make reads..... but then the role isn't actually engaging in the whole fake claiming side of things at all? It's obvious which RB's and UOs are being sourced from an evil player, and that has the exact same of a Poisoner dying which confirms other disruption as town sourced.

Now like, granted, you can claim having a separate UO and RB role solves this because one can play Claimbag and the other gets to actually have fun but like. That's exactly it - you have basically just outsourced the problem onto one player, and told the other "go have fun!"

Or they can both run around being loud which... is honestly probably bad for coven because that basically confirms the two common coven slots

And also very notably, yes this WIFOM loud evil gameplay is fun but the key to making it fun is to do it in moderation. If you're facing seven WIFOM abilities where it's like "oh wow, was the RB and the UO and the Witch and the Glorbo and the Stevenorpus Destruction all like optimal plays or is each individual one trying to fool us??" that's just overwhelming

[restive hemlock]

We should give smog to wildling

Wildling can now smoke a fat blunt to forget about their awful life, creating an UO

[vapid knot]

This also goes for everything btw. Even in base mafia, looking at night kills is fun. "Why is this person still alive when they clearly look like a threat to the Mafia?" and you have to consider if the mafia are killing into themselves or if they're going for generally suboptimal picks to throw good off.

This is fun. But only one player kills each night..... so like, should we add more kills to have more to analyse? Should we pull a town of salem and have separate kills for every evil ability relating to kills and like........ no, I don't think so

I think having the killing abilities stay pretty central is fine, I think having the "loud disruption" abilities stay central is fine, I honestly think Coven already has a lot of bloat if anything, same for most alignments in tos and I don't think distributing abilities across multiple roles is fun because I think it contributes to that bloat by having redundancies and makes worldbuilding less engaging

And it makes evil deaths less meaningful since like, "oh no jim 3 died. we only have jim 1 & 2 left.... im cring... 😢

[robust pilot]

In regards to this, I do not think there should be a brand new role that exists purely to UO, but rather the ability should go to a different role (i.e. PMer).

I do agree some roles shouldn't be split into more groups due to their similarities, but UO and RB are different enough from one another to where multiple roles having such abilities isn't all that redundant.

Also from my earlier point about more disruption, I think Pois should have a second ability that complements its roleblock, but UO in my eyes doesn't complement Drink, it acts as an alternative sidegrade to it.

[vapid knot]

Fwiw I do actually agree that like, it's somewhat redundant having both UO and RB but also I think just in general it's like

UO and RB are both kind of already like this

They just have to be seperate because, they're town abilities which means attackers are utterly fucked if they don't know if they need to claim or not

Like claiming UO when you ran into UO as an attacker is pretty damning LOL

Fundementally both abilities achieve extremely similar things imo it's just the difference of direct vs indirect, but both often have the same outcome and can both be used in the same ways just with different methods

[vale hare]

Now lets talk about botc Poisoner
Poisoner(minion):Has the ability to poison a player every night till dusk. Poisoned players ability malfunctions, and all information learnt by a poisoned player is arbitary

[compact otter]

Smh, you did it too early

Poisoner is a really powerful minion, just very swingy and really only belongs on TB and lev scripts

I personally do like it, playing as or against when it's in the proper scripts, but if it's just put in a script without thought it can definitely ruin it

[vapid knot]

Ok I think if we want to do BOTC discussions it needs to be contained to the #1478156887034957927 post, this channel & these posts are supposed to be about BTOS Tbf so it’s a bit unfair on other people who want to use the channels for the intended purpose if they are all being used for something else

[vale hare]

i just did it cuz it was funny

or you can just make botc discussion posts too

its literally in the off topic section, nobody would mind

[vapid knot]

I’m not just saying to you I’m saying to vagabond too

This server isn’t actually a BOTC server so we can’t really be making dedicated stuff here for that