Remove socialites roleblock immunity

[copper tree]

There is no reason for socialite to be roleblock immune. It doesnt lead to any paradoxes like witch, retri or other roleblockers

[burnt ingot]

It leads to paradoxes in the context that Tav needs to be Socialite immune for this to work lol

[copper tree]

explain?

cuz soc cant go on themselves

[burnt ingot]

It's because Every role has an order of activation.

Let's say the rolelist is Cleric, Soc, Tav.
Let's also say Soc and Tav both want to go on the Cleric.

Currently, Socialite is RB immune, so here's how it works rn:
Socialite moves first, and goes on the Cleric. Tav hits a UO.

Now, let's say Soc ISN'T RB Immune:
Tav move first. Tav goes on Cleric and Roleblocks them successfully. and THEN, Socialite moves, and goes on Cleric.

by making Soc rb immune, you're effectively making it so Tav moves before Soc.

[copper tree]

hmm cant we make it like this

tav cant rb cleric if soc was there too

but if tav goes on soc there is no uo on cleric

[burnt ingot]

This would require Tavern Keeper to have a secret second ability that only affects Socialites lol

that's tied to their main

I think at least

[copper tree]

ok so tav goes first on cleric

but if soc visits cleric too

then soc cancels tavs visit

[burnt ingot]

Assume two tavern keepers

[copper tree]

or is that too complicated

[burnt ingot]

one on soc one on cleric

[copper tree]

yes

[burnt ingot]

By having it so Soc can block tavs and tav can block Soc, it creates a weird situation

Unless if there's a built-in system that prevents exactly this, it'll be Shrodinger's Shroud situations all over again

[copper tree]

whats shrodingers shroud

[burnt ingot]

ctrl F shrodinger's shroud

[copper tree]

it actually kinda rhymes

[copper tree]

ohh yeah yeah

i lost as shroud like that

[wanton geyser]

Soc is a party hard
They'll obviously be immune to drinks SMH

(Real)

[copper tree]

lore balancing

[sharp dome]

Ngl i think we should remove the party invite thing from soc

[wanton geyser]

Remove party from soc

[long glade]

This causes a paradox

[polar hull]

Tav is now invited to every party because they’re the life of the town

[long glade]

smh

[long glade]

Town Drunk

[polar hull]

I kinda already think it’s easy enough for Tav to screw over town

With how many rb-immune evils there are

Being able to roleblock a ts with little harm should be part of Tav’s helpful aspect
-# screw you Admi

[sharp dome]

Make it so u can chain rb evils again

[feral musk]

Same but with the addition of a BG

[feral musk]

But I love admirer

[rustic remnant]

Roleblock immune TP is kinda nuts yeah

UO Crus was always pretty strong but it had to be that way

[carmine yacht]

the socialite drinks a lot at their parties, its fitting for them to be immune

[sharp dome]

This is why we need escort and consort back 😔

[nova granite]

It would lead to paradoxes

Socialite has higher priority than tavern keeper

& unfortunately due to the way TOS works roles can only act at one specific point in the night so there’s not really any easy way to make a lot of RB immune roles, not RB immune

Which is why roleblocking the witch or poisoner who holds the necronomicon does nothing

[long glade]

or necromancer!

[nova granite]

Yepp

I feel like in an ideal world there just wouldn’t be rb immune roles but tos is tos

It’d require some janky bandaid fix that’d definitely break or rebuilding the game entirely to fix iirc

[rustic remnant]

witch is the problem

witch is always the problem

without which, socialite would not be the best TP

(aside from trapper which is better due to being the best TI)

[copper tree]

why do you hate witch

[nova granite]

Tbf this time it’s not just witch

[rustic remnant]

is there any other reason soc would be rb immune?

I guess two soc + two tav

[cold lantern]

It's mostly just Priority

[rustic remnant]

I think the solution is introduce an ability queue system?

but I can see why you wouldn't

[feral musk]

Lore and as we all know, that's the most important way to balance stuff

[rustic remnant]

You realize I just ignore trolling right?

because everyone does it

[nova granite]

Yes, every roleblocker

[nova granite]

And this can’t happen because TOS is built in a way so that every role acts one per night at that exact moment

[feral musk]

I'm going to be honest. I genuinely think that's like the only reason besides like it being annoying to code

But I should troll you

And you should not ignore it

[ruby veldt]

Wait when did heric die 😢 😢 😢

[feral musk]

I got eaten

[nova granite]

But like imagine

• Two socialites visit each other
• A tavern keeper tries to Roleblock each of them
  Who wins?

[rustic remnant]

waiting for tos3 to change that fr

[long glade]

I used to be a game host on TG, where you had to do every role manually, one night took 30 minutes

[rustic remnant]

given an introduction of a priority system it should be the tavs

imo

[feral musk]

And even if they coded it it would be a weird interaction that you'd need to learn

[nova granite]

So the suggestion is tavern keeper becomes UO immune ?

[rustic remnant]

but in the context of this game I already spotted this oversight

[nova granite]

I know sort of what you mean

But it’s impossible if roles act exactly once per night

[rustic remnant]

If the tav's action went first and cancelled the soc's UO ability before the soc took an action, it would work

[nova granite]

Which they do unfortunately

[rustic remnant]

but yeah

the current system makes so many roles op

just because of coding jank

[nova granite]

I think it’s just more like

Roleblocks don’t really work in tos

[rustic remnant]

I think that roleblocks should cancel book attacks but not an ability

[nova granite]

Computers cannot handle paradoxes or work with information that doesn’t exist yet unlike us

[nova granite]

Impossible as well sadly

Trust me every possible angle to make that happen has been explored

[rustic remnant]

#1437779662355955834 wowie that's a brilliant insight based upon a backed up argument

[long glade]

Arent attacks really low priority tho?

[nova granite]

Okay actually there is one possible way

• RB immune coven roles don’t attack, but create an NPC (like a ret zombie) that attacks on behalf and is also roleblocked when they are

[rustic remnant]

I'm trying to explore silent roleblocks

at least

[nova granite]

Which is very janky easy to break & a terrible time investment but it would technically work

[nova granite]

No

[copper tree]

like poison in botc?

[tall hearth]

@copper tree has leveled up! (23 ➜ 24)

[nova granite]

Every role acts at one exact point in night order

[rustic remnant]

Yeah I might change the feedback thing to just being disrupted

[copper tree]

cuz otherwise roleblock wouldnt be silent to roles like invest or sheriff

[rustic remnant]

it's too jank

[nova granite]

Also poisoner having poison and UO means it would have roleblocker immunity to UO in your example

[copper tree]

poison would not benefit town that much

[long glade]

damn

[nova granite]

So one UO role would be immune to roleblocks

[rustic remnant]

roleblocking evils is really beneficial

[nova granite]

Idk the entire system does feel bad though I agree because as a player it feels arbitrary

[rustic remnant]

poison in botc is just drunk

[copper tree]

i mean roleblocking being like poison from botc

[nova granite]

Alch poisoner is insane in BOTC if that’s what you’re talking about

[rustic remnant]

it's the smae thing lol

yeah poison on good is really strong

[nova granite]

Although that’s partially because blocking the demon is crazy

[rustic remnant]

if tav existed it would be so broken

even silent

[nova granite]

Depends tbf

[nova granite]

Exorcist:

[rustic remnant]

because you not only rb evils like exorcist but you rb minions too

[nova granite]

Exorcist isn’t broken though on its home script because of: game design

[rustic remnant]

also my point lol

[nova granite]

It’s OP on other scripts

[long glade]

Lets give players a 1/10 chance to be immune to being roleblocked

[copper tree]

roleblocking ti in the first night can be rough

[rustic remnant]

this is why usually I rb tplo

[copper tree]

would poison be more op on town or evil

[rustic remnant]

town

[nova granite]

It does depend tho tbf, many good roles cause drunk but it’s not crazy because they’re designed to avoid being tav

[copper tree]

ok i wanna ask this one question. Is town still op in btos2?

[rustic remnant]

yeah, most storytellers like screwing the good team

lol

[nova granite]

Depends on your perspective

[rustic remnant]

ngl this game is too fast for anyone

[nova granite]

TOS does have a weird self-perpetuating balance, in a way

[copper tree]

what does that mean

[rustic remnant]

I think having easily solvable games is stupid

but like

idk

[nova granite]

It shouldn’t work but every aspect clashes in a way that somehow makes it work

[rustic remnant]

People need to stop flaming though when a game is not as obvious as it seems

[nova granite]

Evils are absolutely shafted in terms of claim space but also evil majority can come around very fast and pulling off a good play or two can guarantee your victory

[copper tree]

there isnt anthing that stricks to me that shouldnt work

[rustic remnant]

which is honestly an aspect I don't like

[nova granite]

The entire game shouldn’t to be fair LOL

[rustic remnant]

it feels like evils get lucky a lot

[long glade]

All any is an example

[rustic remnant]

and they literally do if it is multiball

[nova granite]

It’s a social deduction game where you play with strangers, that in itself is antithetical

[copper tree]

in false town evils get majority d3

[copper tree]

so basically public lobby among us?

[nova granite]

I mean

[rustic remnant]

among us is mostly kids now

[nova granite]

Correct they are the same thing

[rustic remnant]

lol

apparently before 2020 it had a legitimate palyerbase of regs

[copper tree]

i dont think among us is a bad game

but i dont wanna play a public lobby

[rustic remnant]

It's definitely not

it's a case of the playerbase

similar to this game

they aren't built for sdgs

[copper tree]

this playerbase is a lot better

i have seen way worse sdg playerbases

of sdg

we should just host an among us game one day

[nova granite]

I can’t really judge among us

[copper tree]

have you played it?

[rustic remnant]

I would but like

where do you get a full lobby

of people who want to play modded

[copper tree]

in the botc server?

[rustic remnant]

and not have the nonsense

I pulled off making tt in tour before btw

[nova granite]

Yeah quite a few times but comparatively I have 100x more experience with Mafia based games

[rustic remnant]

and it was fun

[copper tree]

whats tt tour

[rustic remnant]

lovers but with a house rule that the town lover is treated like an impostor

It works surprisingly well

[nova granite]

I can’t judge it because I can’t really say what sort of stuff makes it tick or where its shortcomings are compared to Mafia based SDGs where I feel a lot more confident to do so

[copper tree]

so basically a crewmate that works for the imposter but cant kill

[rustic remnant]

Yeah they use their crewmate ability for evil

[copper tree]

where do you even find the mods?

[rustic remnant]

Someone actually posted a youtube video of a game with "tt" transporter lol

[copper tree]

transporter in among us?

[burnt ingot]

It'd probably require overhauling the whole system lol

[burnt ingot]

In ToS the game or in the ToS system?

(Doesn't work because it ruins the game or doesn't work because the code's jank?)

[nova granite]

Bit of both I suppose

[burnt ingot]

Fair lol

[nova granite]

The system is a massive one for sure though

RB immunity feels really arbitrary from a player perspective

As a tavern keeper you can never be certain your ability will do anything helpful because a good chunk of roles ignore you entirely

[rustic remnant]

I want to look at other mafia style games but it's a complete ghost town

I'm also not really a fan of games with complicated win con shenanigans

[burnt ingot]

Do you know if Escort/Consort came to ToS1 from the very beginning or if it was added in later?

[fickle knoll]

I think they were there since the start

[burnt ingot]

I guess at the time RB immunity didn't matter all that much

[copper tree]

what about wolvesville

or if you want a single player one you can play gnosia

[nova granite]

I think they were both in SC2 Mafia