These are dumb. Dont do this

[karmic cloak]

Dumb reworks on roles that dont need it: Go

Tpows

No

Remove Monarch, Mayor, Marshal, Prosecutor and Jailor (They are now TOs)

Tks (Complete removal)

Veteran: New alignement, TS
Can alert 3 times. If alerted, will gain Basic defense
If they are visited, will know the Roles of Every Visitor

Deputy: New Alignement, TS
Can decide to chain someone during the Day. The chained player will be permanently Roleblocked until the deputy removes the chain, or 3 Days pass.

Vigilante: New Alignement, TI
Can decide to threaten someone every night, up to 3 times. That player will have their entire will given to you as whispers the following morning

Trickster: New Alignement, TP

Magic mirror, no more unleashing

Tps

Bodyguard: Will now gain basic defense when guarding someone. When guarding, if that playing is attacked, redirect the attack onto you

Crusader: Fortify someone every night. If they are visited, mark a random visitor. the mark will be shown next to the name on the Vote screen. You cannot prevent a kill.

Trapper: When a trap triggers, learn the roles that triggered it. No more killing anyone

TS

Amnesiac: No, they are now a TO

Tis

Seer: Choose to intuit someone. You will be randomly given someone else to Gaze. There is a 50/50 chance your information is right or wrong

Coroner: This role is so awful it should be nuked out of existence

Yes I am petty as fuck

This is to show how AWFUL an actually BALANCED tos2 game would be

These roles are fairish

Much more balanced than what they are in Vanilla

BUT HOLY FUCK ARE THEY AWFUL

[brazen bane]

what is the point of this

[karmic cloak]

This is to show one thing

BALANCE =/= GOOD

YOU WANT SOME AMOUNT OF BS TO MAKE THE GAME INTERESTING

IT MAKES IT UNPREDICTABLE AND UNEXPECTED

IF EVERYTHING IS BALANCED

IT ALL FEELS LIKE SHIT

[brazen bane]

bait post

[karmic cloak]

Not a bait post

Moreso a way to demonstrate my argument

[brazen bane]

to show you can't balance roles?

[karmic cloak]

No

That balanced roles =/= fun roles

Coroner is pretty balanced all things considered

Fucking awful role

[brazen bane]

"here are balanced roles"

Seer: Choose to intuit someone. You will be randomly given someone else to Gaze. There is a 50/50 chance your information is right or wrong

[karmic cloak]

This is the balancing I see on this server

It aint balancing

Its gutting

Like why are people so afraid of town being able to kill

Like what?

[acoustic harness]

Because it kills the SDG part of the game for the town

[karmic cloak]

YOU KNOW WHAT ROLES SUCK

A ROLE THAT COMPLETELY UNDERMINES THE MAIN WAY TOWN GETS INFO

COUGH COUGH DOOMSAYER RITUALIST COUGH COUGH

COUGH COUGH JESTER EXECUTIONER COUGH COUGH

Yet not a soul complains

[acoustic harness]

Exe?

Tf

[karmic cloak]

Executioner makes D2 tis untrustworthy

[acoustic harness]

And? That's a good thing

TOS isn't just mechanics

It's a SDG

[karmic cloak]

Should town be unable to trust any Ti claims and have no way to bounce back?

Genuine Question

Should town's only way to gain reliable info is shitty scumreads?

[acoustic harness]

Damn it's like town should socially deduct to see who is town or not

[karmic cloak]

YOU ANSWER YES?!?!?

W o w

Fuck town apparently

[acoustic harness]

Tos isn't a strategy game, it's a SDG

[karmic cloak]

My brother in christ

WE ARENT PLAYING IN PREMADE LOBBIES

HOW DO YOU SDG WITH PEOPLE YOU DONT FREAKING KNOW

[acoustic harness]

Congrats, you just described TOS

[karmic cloak]

That aint even true in Town of Salem bro

You still rely on the Ti's to do SOMETHING

You still rely on looking at Fake claims

Bro

[lunar ingot]

I sure agree with the take balance ≠ good yep

[karmic cloak]

Again

coroner is, on paper, very balanced

[lunar ingot]

it's really not lol

[karmic cloak]

Just like Coven Leader is, on paper, very balanced

Or Conjurer

Fucking Bs roles btw

[lunar ingot]

okay so your take is keep the game the same

I don't get it

[karmic cloak]

Yes

[lunar ingot]

why not just not post at all then

💀

[karmic cloak]

Because apparently Crusader is being reworked?!?!

[lunar ingot]

It's fine if you like the state of the game

[karmic cloak]

Like what

[lunar ingot]

wdym

like the handler crus?

[karmic cloak]

Yeah there is a Crus Rework

Crus as in TP

The Fortify guy

[lunar ingot]

crusader in vanilla was detrimental for town and just loud af

[karmic cloak]

Like what the fuck is wrong with Crus

[lunar ingot]

it's not the popular

if two cruses go on the same target town just straight up loses

[karmic cloak]

(I have a very funny picture of that lol)

[lunar ingot]

not just that but why visit as coven with a weak ability when that just risks randomly dying to crus

[karmic cloak]

Fym town loses?

They can bounce back

[lunar ingot]

it's not just about balance

it's just not fun to have in the game

[karmic cloak]

What is crus is Btos2

Pls tell me it aint just BG with a recolor

[lunar ingot]

It's like what handler was but it kills instead of getting TI info

[karmic cloak]

Wait so it tracks evils?

[hardy ridge]

@karmic cloak has leveled up! (6 ➜ 7)

[karmic cloak]

Yippie

[lunar ingot]

no it doesn't track evils

[karmic cloak]

Idk what Handler does

[lethal crescent]

rule thre

[lavish axle]

Role Overhal

Every role now can win after being hung and after filling a chatterbox meter

[restive bone]

I LOVE BEING FOUND SUS N1 WITH NO COUNTERPLAY

It’s not like Exe exists to counter that specific scenario !!!

[rain gorge]

i just wanna point out how your argument relies on the roles being balanced

which uh.....

Tpows: needed to offset the fact that a fucking 10v5 or 9v4v1v1 is inherently ridiculously evil-sided
Veteran has the trapper issue of confirming the entire town and therefore is still ridiculously busted
Deputy is hard confirmable. Bad.
Vigilante is hard confirmable. Bad.
Trickster is Cleric but worse. It's alright to be honest, I think Cleric is a tad overpowered.
BODYGUARD IS FUCKING INVINCIBLE. REALLY BAD.
Crusader is... fine... and that version is actually pretty fun
Trapper........ you've solved the "issue" with trapper that's not actually an issue.
Seer you've nerfed to Pilgrim. I'm not joking, 50/50 binary info = pilgrim.

that said, there are a significant amount of people that support TO/NO amne

[restive bone]

How is Cleric not well designed?

[rain gorge]

cleric exist = you can't kill the seer without particular roles

[restive bone]

Kill the Cleric first then

[rain gorge]

well

whos the cleric

[lunar ingot]

this thread is just bait

[rain gorge]

the number of times ive been falsely accused of baiting leads me to believe this is in fact
not bait

[lunar ingot]

they don’t even know what the new crus is but was just pissed that it was changed at all

[restive bone]

The only TP claim
Wait true Vet…

I kinda understand

[rain gorge]

fym the only TP claim there's like 20 per game

oh and dont forget to kill the lookout, at least you know who they are

[lunar ingot]

fair but like

[restive bone]

Do you dislike BG too btw?

[lunar ingot]

it wasn’t thought out

[rain gorge]

BG can't consistently keep a player alive so not really

[lunar ingot]

anyways

[restive bone]

It kills a whole evil though

Like if you were Shroud you’ve been put out of your misery iirc

[rain gorge]

eh
BG is objectively the more skill-based of the two

[restive bone]

It’s the same thing but one has swingy killpower

[rain gorge]

they can't brainlessly force jailor to exist

evils always have the option to sacrifice one of their own to dispatch a BG

[lunar ingot]

chat I'm ruining the sdg with my balance takes

[rain gorge]

... and if you discover there was a BG on the jailor you can always just

go again next night

[restive bone]

Fair point

BG being Powerful Attack is a bit bad tho

Imagine getting to f3 as Shroud just to die to a random ass BG

[lunar ingot]

It disincentivizes NK nuking the tplo

to test

it also gives a proper sidegrade to cleric

which fills the slots up

I'm just saying why it exists

[gray mason]

Surprised people are still talking in this post despite the 6 Bait reactions

[restive bone]

I know someone said this was wrong once but all TPs are essentially Cleric sidegrades

[lunar ingot]

I want to spread my tos:e propaganda

[rain gorge]

Trapper isn't

[restive bone]

We talk about smth else here yeah

[gray mason]

Fair

[gray mason]

Neither is oracle, despite the barrier

[rain gorge]

i mean

every town role is just a pilgrim upgrade

[lunar ingot]

chat what if veteran was a ts

and trapper was a tk

[rain gorge]

you could have said trickster
and you didnt

thats it im burning tos:e

[gray mason]

Oh you're implementing my Trapper overhaul idea? Or is it just vanilla Trapper without the protection?

[lunar ingot]

that would be the dumbest bandaid ever

they still die but so does the ck

lol

[gray mason]

Yeah lol

[rain gorge]

that was
honestly what i wanted to do with crus

[lunar ingot]

I might

I like the idea of a guessing game

[restive bone]

Cleric but you spend a night to build your barrier and they stay on a target until someone visits it, you’ll know what roles visited it. If your target is attacked by a visiting attack you powerful attack them

[rain gorge]

anyways speaking of tos:e when do we get to play it

[restive bone]

True

[lunar ingot]

soon

I was busy with hw

but I'll probably finish coven this weekend

in the almanac

[rain gorge]

Cleric but 3-shot 1-night delay and cynical

[restive bone]

I’ve played one game of ToS:E when Admi sucked

[lunar ingot]

and now admirer is gone (for now)

[restive bone]

Fair

[rain gorge]

we have the doc no?

[lunar ingot]

I want it back to tos2 admirer

[restive bone]

I don’t blame you about it

[lunar ingot]

yeah but it's way more organized in the almanac

[restive bone]

I just wanted to mention how Bendan couldn’t really have done anything

Rip Bendan

[lunar ingot]

fyi if crim attacked cyber, she would've got honeyed by famine and bendan would have hard confirmed cyber as good

LOL

[restive bone]

Hmm

[lunar ingot]

bendan chose cyber correctly and crim almost attacked them

I changed admirer to traveller anyways

so no more unlosable games

for coven

[restive bone]

True but Nova and I were kinda in a 1f1 at the point of n3 so Crim shouldn’t do that

Ren and Nova didn’t really have a lot of control that game

[lunar ingot]

nova almost solved the game

honestly

but sadly they got sheeped

they called you out for your fc propaganda

[restive bone]

?

[lunar ingot]

you had asked for full claims

and cyber learned there was a ritualist

[restive bone]

True yeah

And Rit didn’t Rit it

Because visiting

Unless bookholder wasn’t Rit

[lunar ingot]

it's funny how not dreamweaving won you the game

[restive bone]

By the time of n3 Cyber and I were essentially in a 1f1
Because the worlds where we both were good were stupid I realised at that point

[restive bone]

The Spy bugged the only other real TI n1 which was an Inv

I was demoted to Covenite (still there for maj tho, good enough for me)

[last loom]

"BODYGUARD IS FUCKING INVINCIBLE. REALLY BAD."

sorry

what are you smoking?

[restive bone]

The suggestion post above I assume

Gonna read it

No pins 💀

[restive bone]

Yup. This is basically true in the post above

“You gain basic defence when guarding”

[last loom]

I mean that's not invincible

[restive bone]

It basically is

[last loom]

I also think that criticizing this post doesnt really do anything as it was clearly made as a flummerypost

so saying "this is unbalanced" is kinda..

obvious

[restive bone]

Cyan was probably just practicing reviewing things

I don’t think they were too serious either

[last loom]

Vigilante: New Alignement, TI
Can decide to threaten someone every night, up to 3 times. That player will have their entire will given to you as whispers the following morning

this is funny to me

[rain gorge]

i mean it was made to demonstrate how a balanced town wouldn't be fun

which
yk
kinda hinges on the town in question being balanced

or at least not overpowered

[last loom]

mmm yeah I see

they are making the point that balanced roles are fun

while these just aren't balanced

[restive bone]

Wait, you said 10v5s would be evil-sided without TPows?

True ig

What about with Grace?

[rain gorge]

5 correct hangs vs 3 mislynches

what do you think

[lunar ingot]

I think that sounds fine

when like 5 townies are conf

[rain gorge]

how are 5 townies conf

[lunar ingot]

depends on context

is this sk?

[restive bone]

But TI and TP inflation

[rain gorge]

even with a save in 10v5 it's still 3 mislynches = lose

[lunar ingot]

the difference between 10 base townies and 10 town roles from tos2 is massive

[restive bone]

TIs get a lot of info n1

[rain gorge]

evils can easily fake TI too

[restive bone]

TS apparently is strong to if not Ret or Amne

[lunar ingot]

yes but then the slots are being used

ngl

ret is kinda cracked

most of the time it's just another tp

that can optimize

and is astral/rb immune

well, basically astral

[restive bone]

True

[lunar ingot]

oh wait, we can't nerf that because that makes the game less fun

[restive bone]

Ret is weak imo

You can’t do anything n1 so it’s easy to fake

[lunar ingot]

it's only weak because it's a good hang

day 2

and can't instantly prove itself

but realistically the role is really good

[restive bone]

Yeah and it takes long to do something

True

[empty matrix]

This post reminds me of that one guy if yall know who im talking about. I forgot their user lol

[restive bone]

Idk who you mean

[lethal crescent]

fold i think