Crus Rework

[jade lily]

Crusader (Town Support)

Attack: None
Defense: None
Disruption Immune: Yes(?)

Abilities:

(♾️,🌙) Fortify

• Fortify your target's home, preventing all evil abilities you are able to.
• You are told if you prevented at least 1 evil ability.
  (2️⃣,☀️) Bless
• Bless your target, permanently granting them astral visits and immunity to being roleblocked or controlled.

List of abilities prevented by Fortify:

• Shriek (Banshee), Dreamweave/Conjure Dream (Dreamweaver), Enchant (Enchanter), Stone Gaze (Medua), Drink (Poisoner), Reveal (PM), Voodoo (VM), Sense (Wildling) Control reveal ONLY (Witch), Reap frame ONLY (SC), Curse frame ONLY (must visit person who cursed visits; WL), Track Scent (WW)
  Unsure:
• Indoctrinate (Cultist),

Notes

• Admirer loses Bestow to focus more on it's new mechanic.
• Socialite is added in (Preferably as a TP)

TL/DR

• Crus becomes a slightly changed pre-overhaul admirer, admirer loses Bestow, and Socialite comes in as TP to fill in crus's spot.

imo pre-overhaul btos2 admi was a good concept, and should be kept

[fathom badger]

eh

[cobalt reef]

Is good

[jade lily]

The list of abilities that can be prevented is up for debate btw

Not too sure if something like reap/curse should be prevented since they are needed for SC/WL to transform

[mighty lake]

You can still opt to block the framing though

[jade lily]

True

[fathom badger]

id rather just have seaosn 4 btos admirer back

[mighty lake]

I’d rather not mess with the NE and NPs.

Blocking PM and Witch reveal is totally fine though.

[arctic shoal]

this actually fixes the admirer issue of killing people when famine reveales lol

[turbid kindle]

my main issue with this is just its inconsistency but...
Cpow is unaffected (except one minor witch ability)
CK is unaffected
CC are mostly affected
therefore imo yes crusader should block dusa and pois and wild

[arctic shoal]

Crus should block everything normal admirer blocks and maybe a bit more

not baker breads tho

[light dragon]

It feels weird to make this a Crus rework only to then swap the subalignment to TS and add Soci as a TP, wouldn't it be better to just make Socialite something like this since it doesn't require all the alignment shifting? (something something swapping alignments is a cardinal sin at least if this would ever get into vanilla)

[next raptor]

Turning Soci into a TP and Crus into a TS is pretty funny, especially with the fact that it would fuck with you when you switch between modded and vanilla

[jade lily]

I mean crus is currently vanilla Socialite, so if whatever modded does with soci/crus does go to vanilla, there's gonna be some alignment shifting unless modded keeps Socialite as TS (Which Curtis has said it is TP because it is a defensive ability) while finding something Protective for crus

[static lotus]

so soc is a tp now?

[jade lily]

I mention that in the post

"Socialite is added in (Preferably as TP)"

[static lotus]

idk if accompany is coming back

[next raptor]

Instead of doing a roundabout "Keep Socialite the same as-is in vanilla but in a different bucket while overhauling and changing the bucket of Crus"

Why not "overhaul Socialite"?

[jade lily]

So I should just do this but reflavor it for soci?

[slim moss]

I remember when i said that it was TP for it's defensive ability

(I would really appreciate if people would link to things I have actually said before quoting me)

[jade lily]

I remember seeing you mention it before 1 sec

[cosmic hearth]

curbis and tuber are suspiciously active in chat, I haven't seen these people so often

[slim moss]

#lgbtos2-chat message

[cosmic hearth]

people care about subalignments too much. They're mostly arbitrary.

TI: Ritualist/Doomsayer immune
TP: Nothing special
TK: Nothing special
TS: Usually the RB immune roles?

The only point in categorizing is just for role list spawn rates

[static lotus]

How is TP "nothing special"

or TK

[cosmic hearth]

I'm talking about the categorization itself

being TP doesn't do anything

[static lotus]

all TKs have ways of directly killing evils except for vet

TPs like to P

TKs like to K

TIs like to I

and TS are chilling in the RT/CT slots

[slim moss]

TS has always been designed as a misc bucket

[static lotus]

Amnesiac and Retri are wildcards

[slim moss]

its been like that since TOS1, it's still like that today

[static lotus]

tavern is tavern

[slim moss]

Town Wildcard would fit, Town Utility, Town Support. It doesn't really matter

Town Misc

[static lotus]

admirer is just admirer

[jade lily]

I might've been thinking about the message where you talk about where Crus is TP vs Trick being TK mb

[static lotus]

well now it's a mix of roles

which fits TS

weirdly enough

I guess you could argue Admirer and Tavern are defensive TS and Amne/Retri are copycats

Socialite is a TP though

[storm iris]

🍿

[wanton leaf]

Lowkey love how btos2 admi went from hated, considered useless and loved after the bestow rework

Like the last iteration of admi was honestly so fucking fun

[next raptor]

Tavern Keeper is my favorite TP

[mighty lake]

They should make Tav blocks bleed into day (Coroner ignores this)

Same with Pois

[next raptor]

Makes it more of a TP

Now it would be a TP that can block Conjurer shots

And Dep shots, and Prosecutes

[mighty lake]

Blocks Jailor too

[next raptor]

Guys we need Tav into the TP slot

[light dragon]

Move all the TS to TP except Ret and Amne, those can now spawn in any bucket, and then delete TS

[next raptor]

True!

Can we also delete Bodyguard as well?

[mighty lake]

!!!

[wanton leaf]

Can we also delete fresh?

[static lotus]

it doesn’t behave like a TP despite being a defensive ability

It is also primarily a debuffer who happens to be able to prevent death

[next raptor]

I mean, that's the Tav's main usecase no?

Even though it could block other abilities, the main goal of Tavern Keeper is to prevent kills

[static lotus]

That's their surface level purpose

[jade lily]

I'd argue Tav's goal is to slow down progression evils (Such as HM or SC/WL) and to work out who cannot be a certain role by using their RBs such as saying "6 can't be Arso because spy saw arso visit when 6 was RBed"

[static lotus]

but you could literally win the game off of blocking an alterate or a stone or a rit charge or a retrain

etc

[next raptor]

But couldn't one argue that's what Socialite/Crusader's purpose is as well?

[next raptor]

You could also win by blocking a Hex, a Silence, a Douse, a Bread, etc.

[static lotus]

crusader exists in its slot to keep townies alive

once the crus dies the TE dies

tavern does not have the same purpose

[jade lily]

They can't say who specifically was blocked, so I'd say no

[static lotus]

you could use it to predict baker bread

but that's not how crusaders usually behave

and instead they keep high priority townies alive

[next raptor]

Tavern's gimmick is inverse to that of Crusader, in that instead of finding the target, it finds the root cause.

It primarily wants to find the root cause of murders, and prevent them. Anything else is almost always secondary.

Tavern Keeper prevents murders. Tavern Keeper is a TP.

[static lotus]

which no other TPs do

[mighty lake]

It doesn’t always do?

[static lotus]

or behave like

[mighty lake]

It prevents effects too

[next raptor]

Yeah but you mainly try to prevent a kill

[static lotus]

funnily enough, I was thinking about moving ptt's crus slot to crus-tav

just as an experiment

[wanton leaf]

Do I have to wipe it out

Brb

[next raptor]

Speaking of experiments, let's say every role in the game is Roleblock immune except bookholders and other killers.

Would Tavern Keeper still be a TS if it only prevents kills?

[next raptor]

I remember the alignment chart

[turbid kindle]

outdated monarch got buffed

[next raptor]

Technically, unless if you're referring to Bestow, Admirer and Crus should be on the same square

[wanton leaf]

Bestow ye

[next raptor]

Nice rec role

[turbid kindle]

should be baker instead of monarch

it gives defense and blocks effects

[next raptor]

Pretty sure it's referencing how Mon gives Defense to itself

[wanton leaf]

Yep

[light dragon]

Veteran is my favorite TP

[round panther]

If a town role disrupts abilities it's town support imo

[wanton leaf]

Jailor

[next raptor]

Jailor is a ragebait of a role

"If a Town role can choose who to attack, it's Town Killing IMO"

"If a Town role can gather information on a player, it's Town Investigative IMO"

[wanton leaf]

Jailor is the ultimate lifeform

[worn lichen]

Veteran is no longer TK 🔥

[static lotus]

TS is just utility and backup roles

[mighty lake]

Can we nuke Jailor plz

Turn it into Town Poisoner with an extra ability or something that isn’t killing

[next raptor]

Give it a delayed Poison

[jade lily]

TI - Gets info
TP - Protects town from attacks and/or evil abilities
TK - Chooses players to attack or chooses when to attack
TE - Directly capable of killing extra players through voting or killing
TS - Misc.
TG - Affects voting

[mighty lake]

TG?

[next raptor]

Old Admirer and Tavern Keeper belong in TP

[mighty lake]

Nuke the entire TE bucket please

Really don’t want to see it ever again

[worn lichen]

[round panther]

What? No? Tav is the definition of TS lol, since it's the ultimate disruptor

Eh I guess admirer doesn't really disrupt anymore

...

Cuz the only outlier was ret

Guess that definition kinda got thrown out the window this season

[jade lily]

That's why TS is misc.

[round panther]

Tbh we should probably try and find a definition on what TS should be because you being the "miscellaneous" bucket is kinda lame and might as well not exist and get the amne treatment

[static lotus]

None of the other TS “disrupt” except for vanilla socialite

TPs “disrupt” kills so idk what the logic is here

[rich turtle]

misc just means it can encompass anything

[storm iris]

I'm not a fan of bringing back old admirer

[jade lily]

rip

[wanton leaf]

the people are yearning for the bestow tuba

like as its own role

oh that reminds me

[arctic shoal]

Bestow was a good idea

I think it just needed to be fleshed out

In its use case

Since it felt bad to play as admi

[next raptor]

Make it like the pseudo-vet Trickster where the role comprises solely of two Bestows and that's it

[wanton leaf]

or

we give bestow to transporter

[next raptor]

TRUE

[wanton leaf]

wait actually lemme tinker with that idea once Im back

[next raptor]

A good meal's boutta be cooked

[static lotus]

transporter with bestow was not on my bucket list

make it silent so it's extra confused frfr

[next raptor]

Investigator having Percept stapled onto it, but imagine if that's peak

[static lotus]

"were you transported?"
"no, I bestowed."

[wanton leaf]

I do have an idea that could pretty much work