Add Pilgram and Covenite to modded

[ashen barn]

idk why they weren't added, just ban them in Outlier any.

i want to make a stupid Mountainous rolelist

[hollow mirage]

I feel like when someone suggested this before it was controversial but now everyone likes it. I feel like opinions are automated.

[violet grove]

Yeah i suggested this and i think i got shit on lmao

[lucid idol]

Because there is no reason for them to exist, but now that they do exist might as well add them to modded

[violet grove]

I mean there was a reason, people want basic roles in their deck sometimes. No conj rit, dep, just basic ones idk

[mortal saddle]

Tos if it was boring

[hollow mirage]

vanilla roles have use cases for list building even if you don't agree with it

[mortal saddle]

DW and coro on some lists were just banned because they just don't do anything. Why should there be a role specifically just to be boring?

If you wanted to have a vanilla town "experience" then just do it on vanilla

[hollow mirage]

coroner was banned in att because it didn't have any utility, and att is explicitly built as an advanced list

dreamweaver gets banned because it is anti-synergy

[ashen barn]

erm?

DW was banned because it breaks TT

as it basically confirms people

stupid easily

which is a bad thing in TT

well

[hollow mirage]

also it's ass, I would literally rather roll covenite

[ashen barn]

i mean it's a bad thing overall

[hollow mirage]

lmfao

[mortal saddle]

DW was banned because you couldn't do anything, which is bad

[ashen barn]

but really bad in TT

[ashen barn]

what?

no DW did stuff

it just did bad stuff

anti-sygnery

[hollow mirage]

dreamweaver is coven outsider

[ashen barn]

was*

it's good now

[hollow mirage]

covenite is just neutral

true

[mortal saddle]

It was better to stay home and do nothing, effectively making it a covenite

And so it was banned

[hollow mirage]

some people want simpler lists

why shouldn't btos2 have it

literally no downside

[mortal saddle]

Vanilla exists

[hollow mirage]

it doesn't affect you

at all

i can see use cases for adding it

unironically

[mortal saddle]

If you wanted more simpler roles, then don't play btos

Since it just adds completely

[hollow mirage]

Not everyone else is an expert

[ashen barn]

bro

this is just for custom+

[hollow mirage]

but even then

[ashen barn]

why are you bitching so hard

😭

[hollow mirage]

I would still use it for advanced lobbies

potentially

[mortal saddle]

Because it uses dev time to be added, and bug testing for something else

[ashen barn]

not really?

[hollow mirage]

they just disagree, but imma disagree back harder

[ashen barn]

ok nah

[hollow mirage]

because I'm not a fan of removing content

[ashen barn]

out of EVERY role

this would be the easist to port

it's literally a role that does nothing XD

[mortal saddle]

Soci, spy, invest, exe etc

[ashen barn]

invest, spy and exe got brought back

soci can't be brought back

[hollow mirage]

none of those are removed except crus

crusader has no niche except being a call

it was unhealthy

townie and apprentice are not unhealthy

and serve a niche

[mortal saddle]

Like what? They can't even claim their role without getting ritted

[ashen barn]

what the fuck is apprentice

[hollow mirage]

well, they can serve as potential bait

[ashen barn]

you mean covenite???

[hollow mirage]

no I mean "coven member"

my bad

[ashen barn]

no it's literally

called-

dude it's pigram and covenite

oh also that reminds me

[hollow mirage]

yeah sorry for trolling mb

[mortal saddle]

You can do that with literally any townie

[hollow mirage]

it's "witch" ik

[ashen barn]

Add Pilgram and Covenite to modded

[hollow mirage]

all of the townies that do this have things to hide about them

[noble mauve]

Pilgram

[ashen barn]

i still don't understand why this would be a bad thing to add

[hollow mirage]

ideally a claimswap should serve a double purpose:

1. to redirect killers
2. to confirm your information

[mortal saddle]

You can "act" like a Pilgrim at any time

[ashen barn]

agian, it exists in base game

i just don't understand why modded shoudln't have these roles

it's just roles for custom+

i literally see no downside

[hollow mirage]

pilgram is actually pretty advanced if you think about it harder

but it needs to be in the right environment

otherwise it is just a wasted slot yes

it's extremely niche but not unhealthy in the slightest

[mortal saddle]

What is the right environment? Tos is too fast to be claim-swapping like btoc

[ashen barn]

in a regular list

[hollow mirage]

buddy, there is claimswapping happening all of the time in semi serious lobbies

[ashen barn]

but pilgram... isn't going to be used

in a regular list...

also claim swaps happen all the time

[hollow mirage]

yeah, it would just be for smaller lobbies

[ashen barn]

smaller?

[mortal saddle]

There is, because both townies trust each other

[hollow mirage]

more for spice of life lobbies

[mortal saddle]

You cannot trust a Pilgrim

[violet grove]

If there exists a possibility for a role, they should just add it if its easy. Like Pilgrim and Covenite simple as that

[hollow mirage]

claimswapping can be subtle

[violet grove]

Its not gonna be in all lists so its hurting no one

[hollow mirage]

it can just be soft cc'ing another townie you trust

by acting like them

and letting them play passive

realistically it would just be for small custom+ lobbies

Yes, you do nothing but keep a claims list

but you can still engage with the game

[ashen barn]

• i wanna make a list of
  3 power roles (mafiascum term)
  1 RT
  9 pilgram
  1 RC
  3 covenite
  Judge

Bans:
CL, Jinx, Illusionist... Retributonist, Amnesiac, idk i can't think of others rn

like this is just a custom+ game

if you don't wanna play it... don't

lol

it's not like im forcing you at gunpoint

[hollow mirage]

lmao 23 players

[mortal saddle]

Outside of list confirmation and tis, there is no way to trust them. Why should you claim-swap with an unconfimable? Plus, you need to cc a role that's not your bucket, else you run the risk of being guessed

You are just the "scum" role

[ashen barn]

god i can really tell tos is the only SDG you have played

[hollow mirage]

it's not even really social deduction anymore

only in certain contexts is it social deduction

[ashen barn]

no, shut up

we are not having that debate

[mortal saddle]

I play btoc, secret Hitler, and the avalon wdym. Tos is a text-based sdg game, there is barely any social deduction

You don't get physical interaction or voice, which is a MAJOR part of sdg

[hollow mirage]

secret hitler doesn't have good roles

all roles in that game are completely designed for the structure of the social aspect

[mortal saddle]

Fair, but I just was just listing a few that I've played

[hollow mirage]

botc literally has anti-synergetic roles and many, many sitting ducks

[mortal saddle]

That's because it was designed around it

[hollow mirage]

in tos2 everyone seems to have to do something

[mortal saddle]

Tos is designed around everyone having a role

[hollow mirage]

tos2 is just your standard mafia style game

it is literally just based off the og sdg

which had all default roles

doctor and seer and sheriff were unique

and scumreading was based very heavily off of behavior and not just claiming

[mortal saddle]

The difference is that you're playing it irl or in VC, there are more social tells

[hollow mirage]

well tos2 supports vc lobbies

[mortal saddle]

And for the 20 people that play it, it's a different game

[hollow mirage]

so whwy prevent those players from having a good time

[mortal saddle]

Vanilla exists

[hollow mirage]

vanilla doesn't have NP

or jackals

[ashen barn]

Yeah and vanilla is worse

[hollow mirage]

or generally good modded changes

[ashen barn]

soci, what is basically a TP, is a TS

boo

[hollow mirage]

like seer or sk

[ashen barn]

modded is MUCH better

[mortal saddle]

Then why add more complex roles, and then knee cap the town/coven roles

[hollow mirage]

why force a player to open a private vanilla lobby

[ashen barn]

because it's a custom+ list

why the fuck not?

like

you design the list

[noble mauve]

You can now put Socialite in TP using dual buckets

[hollow mirage]

complexity isn't the purpose, it's being more competitively friendly

[ashen barn]

also

NP aren't that complex LOL

[mortal saddle]

They aren't complex by themselves, but adding to the greater whole, they are

[hollow mirage]

the idea of a flexible win con is too overwhelming frfr

"aren't I neutral, why am I siding pandora?"

town wins

[mortal saddle]

Mechanically, they aren't too complex, but reading the game-state and acting is complex

[hollow mirage]

You can do super advanced stuff with townie but okay, and maybe you need the simplicity of apprentice

for the sake of balance

If you want to have just a book holder

that doesn't dreamweave or track or allow to reveal instead

[mortal saddle]

Brother,if the covenite role team vs something like catalyst or something equally strong, it's not really a fair game

Or even jackals

[whole rampart]

Largely a matter of whether having no abilities is the norm or the exception

[frigid flower]

Covenite and Pilgrim took like an hour to add

they didnt get any special art assets added either

[dusky canyon]

give pilgrim a musket/blunderbuss for historical realism

[safe wing]

Any - Pilgrim x15