Veteran Overhaul - Selective Ramping Paranoia

[hushed tartan]

Veteran

Town Killing

Basic Attack | Powerful against Coven Leader because fuck you CL shouldnt have def
No Defence

Abilities:

Paranoia ( ♾️ | )

• Each day, mark up to 2 players to be Paranoid of.
• This ability is disabled if Alert killed a player yesterday.

Alert ( Passive | )

• If a player you are Paranoid of visits you, you will Incapacitate them and deal a Basic Attack (Powerful if they are Coven Leader) to them.
• If you kill a player this way, you will stop being Paranoid of all currently marked players the following day.

Attributes:

• If a Roleblocker or Witch you are Paranoid of visits you, you will ignore their Roleblock / Control
• Alert will disable itself in 1v1 scenarios.

Keywords

Incapacitate :

• Mainly using this because its the same concept I used for the Crusader rework.
• Incapacitated players will have their ability fail completely.
• Roles with Unstoppable attacks can't be Incapacitated.

Feedback Messages: :

• You were Incapacitated by a Veteran!
• You were Shot by the Veteran you visited.
• You started being Paranoid about X intents.
• You Shot someone you were Paranoid of.
• You Killed someone you were Paranoid of, clearing any suspicions you had about : List.
• You are Paranoid of : LIst
• You aren't Paranoid about anyone.

TLDR :
Vet now has to choose who they wanna bait, adding more skill expression to the role.
The longer vets goes without killing, the more people are susceptible to Paranoid/Alert attack.
On a successful kill, vet calms down and must mark players again to be paranoid of em
Technically infinite KP, but you can just swoop in after a vet killed someone since they will rest and wont be able to kill.

[weary cedar]

Surely this won't end up in the same situation as stakeout dep

[hushed tartan]

Stakeout dep was a good role imo

[dark valve]

Deputy got a better rework afterwards

[dark valve]

yeah maybe theyll add that for season 5

[hushed tartan]

wouldnt be mad if they did ngl

[dark valve]

This still has the issue of randomly just ending the game for coven night 1 but it's like a 1/54

not nearly as bad as before where you just alert and boom ggs evil

[hushed tartan]

Slightly changed the attributes to make it clear vet is only rb / control immune against player they are paranoid of

[weary cedar]

Wait wouldn't this just become immortal in final 3

[lavish garden]

Oh alert is a passive ability??? Yo hold up

[dark valve]

That's kinda the issue with Veteran

[lavish garden]

At least current vet had to manage alerts to make it there

[hushed tartan]

yeah I had a fix for it in the previous version

[dark valve]

you make it balanced early it becomes op later

Veteran is a problem. It needs something so it's not just banned everywhere.

[hushed tartan]

I would kinda say that if vet lives up to late without proccing rest thats a skill issue on coven part

Still added a lil bit more counterplay

If the veteran kills someone with Alert, they will rest and wont be able to be Paranoid of players the following day

giving evils an opportunity to murder them without risking being blasted

[weary cedar]

That's a bit better

[hushed tartan]

that was the OG intent but I worded it very poorly in the alert desc

[dark valve]

If a veteran remains alert later they will just be in kingmaker / game's fate already decided

otherwise the game should be an instant town win on final 2

[weary cedar]

"Vet just killed we can swoop em"
"You were shot by the Veteran you visited!"

[dark valve]

would make tks more scary while still disincentivizing coven from visiting them

[hushed tartan]

Alert should get disabled if vet is the last townie alive right?

[weary cedar]

That feels slightly weird

[hushed tartan]

not talking about multiball scenarios

[dark valve]

that would be the biggest "oh fuck" moment

lmfao

[hushed tartan]

straight up 1v1 between them and coven

[blazing shell]

fire

[weary cedar]

N1 ends
"The Town is too evil to be worth fighting for!"

[dark valve]

yea......

[hushed tartan]

yeah just added it in the attributes

[dark valve]

stuff like this is why I don't like Veteran as a concept

[weary cedar]

btw does paranoia have a reason to being a day ability

[dark valve]

it's underpowered until it randomly saves the game out of nowhere

or does jack shit against a smart evil team

[hushed tartan]

making vet still be an easy to fake fakeclaim + since it would double visit would confirm vet to tracker

[weary cedar]

You could make it non-visiting so the vet has time to decide during the decision making phase instead of having to make a decision before night starts

[dark valve]

If it got rbd it would slow it down waaay too much

[hushed tartan]

I dont know honestly I think Paranoia works better as a day ability

You dont get randomly fucked by UO / rbs

[dark valve]

UO lol

[hushed tartan]

also it would make it so you could be paranoid of yourself and just commit self with vig

[dark valve]

Also Jailor

[hushed tartan]

which would be pretty funny

[dark valve]

paradox moment

[hushed tartan]

yeah you would nullify yourself

[weary cedar]

You turn yourself into a vanilla townie

[hushed tartan]

nah but surprisingly enough for an idea I had on the shitter I actually kinda like this

[dark valve]

i hate the term vanilla townie

[hushed tartan]

Vanillager

[weary cedar]

chocolate flavored townie

[hushed tartan]

I dunno in french we call em "Simple villageois" (Basic Villager)

[dark valve]

it's used way too often as if you have to fully rely on mechanical abilities to be helpful

[hushed tartan]

@hasty jetty btw spawning you there so you can behold it

[weary cedar]

I'm using it because the idea of deleting your ability using your own role is funny 😔

[dark valve]

if all town pulled off their abilities successfully the game would be town sided af

[hushed tartan]

if only auditor could audit themselves

[dark valve]

how would this work? do you visit yourself and get outted by tracker or not visit yourself and get outted by spy?

[hushed tartan]

you fucking die

[dark valve]

this just reminds me

self visits shouldn't be shown

[hushed tartan]

they arent for the most part

[tawdry depot]

You turn into a Stump.

[tawdry depot]

Stump.

[dark valve]

(half of tracker cheese is complete bs, just add a damn clause for unfakable conditions)

[weary cedar]

Stump can't vote smh

[hushed tartan]

catt quick pull out the carto

seismo not carto mb

[river glacier]

this still fucks neutrals

and still has basically zero agency

[hushed tartan]

Kinda yeah

[hushed tartan]

Quite the opposite

Like I can agree with the this fuck neutral thingy, you should know by now that I fucking hate those leeches fuckers

but this has way more agency than current vet

[weary cedar]

Decrease attack to basic

[hushed tartan]

I would. if CL didnt exist

if CL didnt have basic def I would straight up downgrade it to basic

but since CL is the optimal booksponge late game

making it basic only would just make it so you cant kill the BH

[dark valve]

Attack and Defense is so dumb

[river glacier]

it has agency in who it shoots, but not when

[dark valve]

it should be factional

[river glacier]

you're still gambling on being visited

[dark valve]

but there has to be random ass exceptions

[hushed tartan]

which is why its made to bait more efficiencly

[dark valve]

I'm feeling awfully negative today damn

[hushed tartan]

You are permanently on alert, you just need to make it so the players you are paranoid of visit you

by baiting

[cursive oracle]

but you liked the suggestion

[hushed tartan]

there fixed it

[dark valve]

yeah but I'm complaining about the current game

[hushed tartan]

@river glacier happy? I fucking hate cl having def

[weary cedar]

What happens if someone survives Vet shooting them

[cursive oracle]

they don't die

[dark valve]

wdym

[weary cedar]

Does the paranoia just stay

[dark valve]

probably

[hushed tartan]

if they would've been the only kill : Everyone vet is paranoid of keep being marked
If someone else died, the marked players are reset

[cursive oracle]

you can't disrupt passive abilities anyways

[hushed tartan]

thats why I said killed

[dark valve]

wait it explicitly says

[hushed tartan]

and not marked

[hushed tartan]

Load :

[dark valve]

if they get killed this way

lol

[weary cedar]

Building a trap:

[sterile belfry]

Can you choose dead players (for Necromancer)

[cursive oracle]

not technically passive

[hushed tartan]

I never said alive so uh yeah I guess?

[cursive oracle]

more pseudo passive if anything

[weary cedar]

Shooting the arso 3 times and then a final time post-mortem

[hushed tartan]

good

fuck neutrals

[neat mason]

Tbh i like veteran having powerful attack because then besides Jailor, Town can't deal with NK at night

[hushed tartan]

yeah thats the point of NK having basic

you need to get rid of em through trials

cl having basic defence is a crime against humanity

[sterile belfry]

CL should have Powerful Defense

[hushed tartan]

Powerful attack should be only available to a few amount of roles, and basic def should be reserved for roles that either are solo or have it as part of an ability

[weary cedar]

We give CL basic defense but only if they spawn solo

[river glacier]

lol

[hushed tartan]

that was the only reason why it had powerful

because CL having basic is a bad design choice

CL is the optimal book holder late game after using the 2 retrains

[sterile belfry]

GF port

[river glacier]

ooohhggh but cl needs basic defense to incentivise not self retraining lolololol

[hushed tartan]

Lowkey just make CL regain a retrain charge if a coven member dies instead, would make the role way more dangerous

[river glacier]

obviously the only solution is to remove CL's basic defense and give it powerful attack

[weary cedar]

Actually, get rid of that weird retrain mechanic and allow CL to choose to trade their basic defense for a powerful attack

[dark valve]

do it using the noose then

[hushed tartan]

lowtiergod aaah message

[dark valve]

NK dying at night is bs

that’s your whole lose condition

[river glacier]

mfw i have to use trials to kill evils instead of killing them with this gun i found

[dark valve]

imagine DEDUCING when you could just shoot everyone instead

[river glacier]

i deduced that you're dead

[scarlet creek]

sure, fuck it

[final stone]

Why is specifically Coven Leader the only one who gets dealt a powerful attack

[hushed tartan]

Mainly a joke that CL shouldnt have basic

[final stone]

Well Cl is like that and sadly we cant change it

(Unless we all agree on a suggestion)

[sterile belfry]

Not scientifically possible

[final stone]

When I get off suggestion cd imma see if its possible

[hasty jetty]

This is most definitely stronger than current Vet

I don’t know what to think of it, but it is better than what we have now

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