Make TT Hunt Fail if There's >7 Players

[rancid crest]

No normal role can win a 1v7 when their win condition is about getting majority. If a traitor pulls themselves into this situation, it's better just to end their suffering than to try to "balance" it.

@lost rampart I'd love to hear your opinion on why 1v7-10 town traitor hunts are preferable, or if you have another reason to dislike this.

👀

[stuck rapids]

i do not think tt hunt needs to fail unless it meets a player count

extending the timer based on alive players should be the way to go

[rancid crest]

That'd be really long though

Coven gets wiped off the face of the earth and now it's 1v11

How long do we need to postpone this game

[stuck rapids]

if 3 coven die before even killing anyone, it might actually not be a mode based issue

[rancid crest]

What do you mean?

[stuck rapids]

that the problem might actually lie in other roles / mechanics, and not just in town traitor specifically

(i.e veteran)

[rancid crest]

Well that's an extreme example of course

But let's say you just had a really bad game

Got caught every day

Hit a barrier

You get 2 kills off before your whole team dies

1v9

[rancid crest]

The imbalance itself can be the fault of many different things, but the way it leads to a very drawn out and unfun game is an issue on its own

And rather than trying to tackle every factor that can lead to these incredibly drawn out games right away, it might be better to prevent the issue caused by games where coven gets wiped

[uncut tundra]

Common TT mode L

[rancid crest]

How are you inquisitor I haven't seen you speak in years

[stuck rapids]

odd considering ive seen them speak often

[uncut tundra]

I'm always lurking

:Wildling:

[rancid crest]

Fight back against the TT coalition! Like the anti-TT propaganda suggestions!!

[rancid crest]

Lagspikes you've told me you believe that games where coven is wiped is a problem. Do you also consider it a problem that games where coven plays poorly leads to either an incredibly slow paced game, or a wild swing in the TT's favor by summoning an invisible soul collector 2 days from transformation?

Or would you prefer to allow very slow paced games on occasion and focus efforts on a much larger scale of balance changes?

What kind of day limit are you thinking of? The ideal one (with zero incentives to stall or throw) would be roughly player_count - 2, but that can get really long.

[uncut tundra]

Enable Slow Mode once TT Hunt starts

[rancid crest]

Lagspikes quit lurking

Coward

Fight me

[stuck rapids]

i don’t care enough about this game anymore to fight you on this

uhh let me read

[rancid crest]

https://tenor.com/view/imostergolfra-gif-25274972

[stuck rapids]

I would argue that if coven plays poorly socially and gets caught its just a skill issue, but slower paced games usually work out in towns favor (evils will deteriorate over time while town benefits from the long game) (tt hunt being extended) as for the time based, there should be some form of kp (tk, tpow etc) as for TT to be incentivized to go for majority

if games are too slow, giving tt the necronomicon would be a possibility (however isn’t mandated because you can just not submit an attack)

[stuck rapids]

i wouldn’t mind this ngl

games lasting to d3 to where games that go to what tos1 games used to end at being considered “very slow” is whack

[stuck rapids]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[rancid crest]

Necronomicon is a bit weird. Can you be caught by Investigator/Tracker/Lookout now? Also would confirm anyone who is repeatedly using their ability e.g. Tavern Keeper

[stuck rapids]

im not sure on the “perfect number” because thats a little too much effort for something that will basically never be implemented

[stuck rapids]

id imagine it would just be an attack that can’t be detected (to not mechanically out tt since thats against the point of the mode)

[rancid crest]

If you wanted to skip out on a number, you could give the TT an ability that makes it so they win after 1 day & night at the cost of revealing them. You win the moment you are ready to prove that town has no power.

It gets complicated if there's other evils though

Only really works in a 1vX against town

[lost rampart]

insta lose conditions are boring because it makes plays where you can actually survive the 1v7 impossible to perform

it's just boring

[rancid crest]

I'm interested in Lagspike's position tbh. I'm investigation

It sounds very similar to an alternative position I hold that was also very unpopular

[rancid crest]

Do you think they should basically play until town's out of options, or do you think in bigger sizes (e.g. 1v8) that they should only have to get down to something like the final 3?

[stuck rapids]

i think having to survive to an x player count (or day) would be preferable rather than final 2

if thats what you mean

[rancid crest]

Aw, you were so close to my alternative position but fall just to the side

[stuck rapids]

the tt killing would be an alternative yeah

[rancid crest]

An alternative to having a survival count at all?

Maj based win?

[stuck rapids]

something like that

[rancid crest]

That actually solves... just about every problem

Even the weird edge cases I was ignoring

I'm a bit worried about them getting in a standoff

like town stalling to get the TT to make a kill for their trackers & investigators

Obviously stalling isn't allowed, but I don't want to give them a reason to regardless

A few options:

1. Don't give the TT necro until the final 2-3 players, preventing any potential standoff until that number
2. Make the necro visit-less, crimeless, and happen at the same time as your real visit (o.g. necro attack basically)
3. Make it so that a draw makes town lose, so they auto-fail a standoff if they try

1 is easy, but swaps between limiting TT's options and created standoffs.
2 is harder to implement, and technically makes you a stronger CK which might have unforeseen consequences...? It's setting off red flags but haven't found an exact problem yet.
3 is easy, and I don't see a downside to making this part of the TT modifier.

[rancid crest]

Though, if we're not encouraging using the book early, it's again going to be a really, really long game

[mild kiln]

7 feels too low

[rancid crest]

8

9 happens if you break exactly evenly with no bonus CK kill

Which is terrible

[hexed spruce]

Assuming the popular suggestion is to extend the TT hunt timer until it can naturally reach a 1v1 (TT vs Town), maybe even remove TT hunt as a whole and just auto-win at the start/end of the day in a 1v1 scenario (no edge cases, like non-vigi TT vs vigi with bullet, or TT vs Marsh with Tribunal charges vs TT, game will just end with a TT victory)

Of course, shit like that funny Feelin Lucky Token modifier would softlock the game, but that's an issue with that modifier lol

[rancid crest]

Marshal would still be able to save their ability to the end. I think allowing 1 day/night on the 1v1 is fine. A TT marshal could say “no no let me live so I can eliminate everyone else” as well.