You know the drill

[quiet junco]

Butcher
Town killing

you may give a cleaver to any player at night, giving them basic attack for the night, they will attack anyone they visit with basic attack that night, If the target already has attacking power then it will increase to powerful, it cannot increase to or above unstoppable. If a townie kills another townie using your cleaver then they will get die of guilt the next day. Roles like veteran who don't visit anyone/ visit themselves are unaffected. You have three cleavers to give. Use your cleavers wisely to help town otherwise you may accidentally help evils. Revealed tpows cannot be given cleavers. You cannot give the same player a cleaver twice.

[marble kayak]

🙂‍↔️

Oh no, someone got to this first /s

[quiet junco]

Can someone just tell me wtf that skull emoji means

[marble kayak]

It means the skulled message is so bad and flummery that people think that the message’s contents are a joke by even existing at all.

[quiet junco]

How is it that bad though?

[marble kayak]

Town getting free killpower is so 💀

[quiet junco]

Three cleavers, consequences for messing up, oh and wait i didn't write it but revealed tpow cannot get cleavers

[marble kayak]

@candid elk @lunar schooner @fiery hare @fickle geyser come and see this joke pit

[quiet junco]

Call jade aswell

Might give some valuable input

[fiery hare]

I knew I wasn't going to have been pinged for anything worthwhile when I saw it was from this server

[marble kayak]

@dusky wyvern @chrome aurora time to come and skull this

[quiet junco]

Guys but why is this so bad?

They skulled, made fun, didn't say anything worthwhile and left

[marble kayak]

You shouldn’t be giving Town extra killpower.

Also, it is poorly worded and formatted.

[quiet junco]

Fake claims exist

[marble kayak]

This is impossible to fake.

Death messages are impossible to fake.

[quiet junco]

No I am saying that It could give a cleaver to a Evil role, not every townie is exactly confirmed, tpows once again cannot be cleavered

[marble kayak]

No.

It would confirm the butcher’s existence.

[quiet junco]

It only has three cleavers and also That specific town member needs to also be somewhat smart About what they do with the cleaver they can't random kill

[marble kayak]

Extra Deaths on a player that isn’t normally supposed to be dead should be a serious indicator of its existence

[quiet junco]

It confirms the existence, you can still fake claim it as evil, nothing confirms that the cleaver came from a specific player

You can still say that you were the one to give cleaver

Also you are really flaming this when stupid stuff like monarch exists?

[marble kayak]

You’re hardconfirming them, since there is no way to fake the Death message and they can just visit a person no one else has visited.

This also kills Bodyguard.

[quiet junco]

Kills bodyguard how?

If you are stupid and give it to the bg on the tpow then that's not exactly the role's fault. That's the player playing it

[marble kayak]

You know what? I’m leaving.

[quiet junco]

How tf is there no way to fake the death message it will just say "killed by a butcher's cleaver" you can still claim Butcher and say that you were the one to give cleavor

Wanna talk funny guy?

Does anyone wanna tell me why this role is bad or are you gonna just skull and leave

Someones here

And they left

[lunar schooner]

Don’t make roles that confirm themselves upon using their night action.

[quiet junco]

It doesn't confirm them?? You can still claim it

[lunar schooner]

This raises a player’s attack to basic which is unfakeable

[quiet junco]

It isn't permanent

Just for one night

Also No you can still say you gave the cleaver

Also you don't even need to full claim this, just claim TS

[lunar schooner]

You are still hard confirmed after essentially turning another player into a vigi

[quiet junco]

Bro it only gives them attack for 1 night

[lunar schooner]

This is TK, not TS

[quiet junco]

That's just a nitpick

[lunar schooner]

what does this have to do with anything

[quiet junco]

It doesn't turn them into a vigi, they still keep there original role

[lunar schooner]

A townie that sees their attack raised 100% knows that the Butcher is real

[marble kayak]

It does. It turns them into Vigi, but much stronger.

Vigilante gets Powerful Attack from this.

[lunar schooner]

Then after said town visits and kills an evil, they are also 100% confirmed

And can’t be faked

[marble kayak]

It’s a lot stronger than Shroud.

[lunar schooner]

or stolen

[lunar schooner]

Powerful attack Deputy, :fear

[marble kayak]

Unstoppable+ Attack War in the shadows:

[lunar schooner]

it wears off during the day I think though

[quiet junco]

For the last time, it only does it for one night, the townie doesn't even know there attack was raised.

[lunar schooner]

lmao imagine War just automatically wins for no reason

even if that logic makes no sense

[quiet junco]

What does that have anything to do with anything

[quiet junco]

At most it can raise attack to powerful, it can't raise till unstoppable

[lunar schooner]

unstoppable+ attacks are reserved for game ending situations, it’s just a joke

[quiet junco]

Also you can very easily screw town with this if you start giving random people cleavers

[marble kayak]

They won’t, but can kill themselves and other teammates.

[quiet junco]

Wtf are you guys even talking about

[lunar schooner]

If you give the seer a cleaver, you’re never losing the game

[marble kayak]

If the seer visits an evil.

[lunar schooner]

if it’s tt then oh well screw that town

[quiet junco]

Sure but if the seer kills a townie, you just lost your seer

[lunar schooner]

they have basic attack so i don’t think it matters

not only that but you would know who has the tk slot

[marble kayak]

2 Town for 1 evil is pretty good ngl

[lunar schooner]

so the rest are definitely evil

[quiet junco]

It's TS not tk

I put it there for a reason

[lunar schooner]

wait yeah you labeled this as ts

this is a tk

it lets town, kill.

[quiet junco]

Even fcking marshal is town killing then

And mayor

[lunar schooner]

please elaborate

[quiet junco]

Well it also lets town kill

[lunar schooner]

every single tk roles specifically adds kill power to town with the intent of killing evils

tpows affect trials

[quiet junco]

This doesn't have killing power, it can Give killing power

[lunar schooner]

which is towns main gimmick

[quiet junco]

Deputy, pros don't affect trails but I am not here to argue about them

*trials

[marble kayak]

Jailor is Town Killing.

However, it is far more powerful than Vigilante, the most basic TK design and the most powerful TK role.

Thus Jailor is TPow.

[lunar schooner]

have you been playing btos2? pros specifically calls a trial

[quiet junco]

And How this have anything to do with the role sucking

[lunar schooner]

and deputy is a tk

[quiet junco]

Ah, i have to go now, I will be back in like 2 hours

[lunar schooner]

I never even said the role sucked you’re just arguing against any criticism being given

[tepid marlin]

this is a fucking tpow

as you provide other the mean to kill

your basically inf monarch but instead of vote power it's kill power

KP>VP

most of the time atleast

[lunar schooner]

actually this is a tp, it also gives the target basic defense

[trim wadi]

lemme ask

[lunar schooner]

"seer here, cleaver on me to turn into the most broken asf townie you'll ever see in your life!"

even witch can't divert both cleaver shots from a seer

[trim wadi]

are you suggesting all these roles because you happen to have a good idea that you've actually sat down and thought about

or

[candid elk]

seriously

[trim wadi]

are you making suggestions because you just wanna make a good suggestion

[lunar schooner]

yeah i'm not gonna dislike this only because I got pinged

that feels wrong

[candid elk]

mfw im pinged at 6 am to dislike this rather than doing it at my own time

[tepid marlin]

wait huh?????

i missed that what the fuck lmaooo

[tepid marlin]

yeah can we stop "raiding" posts

we are gonna get fucking banned for bandwagoning at this point

[tepid marlin]

your just making us bandwagon bad posts

no like actually

let US come across it naturally

and let US decide if we wanna fucking interact

this doesn't feel contructive for you to

"HEY GUYS MAKE FUN OF THIS POST"

like this is just cause issues

stop this at once @marble kayak

[shrewd token]

yeah and yall ask why ppl give up on suggesting

[tepid marlin]

Yeah lmao

holy shit

[dusky wyvern]

hello arms dealer

[tepid marlin]

💪💪💪💪💪

[trim wadi]

tbf this is the best one they've made so far and even then it's not great
like i said these are suggestions because they just want a suggestion to stick rather than good fleshed out ideas

[shrewd token]

but still, yall sometimes are bullies and rude af

[dusky wyvern]

i try to be civil

it's not my fault i got pinged here

[keen tartan]

me giving seer a fucking shotgun:

cleric now instant confirm themselves because they attack and protect the target

me giving vigi the ability to kill NK/Bers

[lunar schooner]

I specifically gave constructive criticism here

some ops read my criticism and if I don’t agree call it flaming

[chrome aurora]

"I'm Feeling Lucky should be made a permanent gamemode" ahh suggestion

[dusky wyvern]

mafia.gg type beat

[desert onyx]

can this guy get banned from making suggestions

[quiet junco]

No it doesn't?

[lunar schooner]

"they will attack anyone they visit with basic defence that night" what does this mean?

[quiet junco]

Oh and btw I am back

Oh fck that's a typi

Typo

[dusky wyvern]

may as well try giving actual input

[vast walrus]

@dusky wyvern has leveled up! (43 ➜ 44)

[dusky wyvern]

die

[quiet junco]

It's supposed to be Attack

Also btw to clear up some misconceptions, it only gives attack for one night, if a townies kills another townie with cleavor then they will die to guilt

Also you are right, this isn't TS, it's definitely TK, lemme edit this post actually to correct out some mistakes.

[dusky wyvern]

anyway, granting town roles attack is not healthy because town is already drowning in kill power with TK, TP and TPow all having it, so giving more of it to a TS only exacerbates the issue. additionally, you're a liability to your team because you may accidentally cause your own teammates to kill a townie and die in the process

[desert onyx]

a Town Support role with killpower????

[quiet junco]

Yeah now that I think about it a ts should never have attacking power

I will change that

[desert onyx]

nice

[lunar schooner]

Hangman doesn't exist anymore. You are taking literally every step towards hard confirming this role's existence.

Seeing a hangman confirms the role exists

[quiet junco]

I agree with the former part, not with the latter I think having such a harsh punishment can definitely balance the ability and killing potential of this role

[quiet junco]

Okay lemme edit my stuff and then I will start talking with you because while the rest of these guys are actually putting up some great criticism you are honestly stuck on this one point which I am gonna make clear.

Okay I just edited it, and now I wanna talk with you, What tf do you mean that by killing a player, it reveals it's existence in the game. Do you not want it to? Do you Seriously want a town killing role that can Kill BUT cannot reveal it's existence? I don't even get your point, literally every single tk role and tpow role reveal there existence and they do it in such a more loud way than this role. Also even if people know it exists, What's wrong with that? It gives more of a chance for rit and doom, Butcher may have to claim alignment rather than full role. What is even this point which I am not getting.

I don't think this role needs to exist simply because of the point jade put up that it gives even more killing power to town But your argument literally makes zero sense.

[quiet junco]

I had a list of roles which I wanted as a suggestion to the game and I am just checking off that list and thinking of names once that list is finished I will stop making suggestions.

[desert onyx]

no offense but your formatting isn't that great and it's kinda hard to tell where everything is meant to be

[quiet junco]

I actually had a much better format but when I tried to put that in it simply didn't post

[lunar schooner]

It's more that it provides the town way too much information as you can hard confirm two players potentially with one interaction.

• It gives someone basic attack: "There's a Butcher, I have basic attack"
• Said player kills a coven: "X and Y are both hard confirmed now"

[desert onyx]

Butcher
Alignment: Town (Killing)

(Optional) Goal: Find and execute all evildoers.

Ability 1: Cleaver [3️⃣] (🌙)
-# - UI: Any alive player, (not yourself, Revealed Townies, or previously chosen).
- You may equip a player with a Cleaver, making them deal a Basic Attack to anyone they visit tonight.
- If your target already has an Attack level above None, their Attack level will instead increase (this cannot surpass Unstoppable Attack).
- If your target visits no-one or themselves, your ability will fail.

Attributes:
- If your target kills another Townie due to your ability, they will die of guilt when the day begins.

I personally use headers so it's more obvious where everything is supposed to be

it also should be clarified if you lose a charge for choosing someone and your ability fails

[quiet junco]

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I WAS DOING IT BUT IT WOULDN'T LET ME POST

[lunar schooner]

wdym

It should ?

it only wouldn't let you because it needs tags

[quiet junco]

Potentially is a key word here, but unlike vigi which doesn't have much consequences after misshooting, just losing charges, in the interaction of a fellow townie dying in a butcher attack, both the townie and the townie which had a cleavor will die, so sure in theory you can give this to someone like the seer and they would be powerful but they could have a high chance of dying aswell

[unique kestrel]

Bro

[quiet junco]

You didn't see but yesterday I wasn't able to post at all! I tried everything put a tag, made sure everything was family friendly and nothing just nothing it wouldn't even tell me why it wouldn't let me post

[lunar schooner]

this confirms so much info for town though

hangman is not a proper punishment

[candid elk]

or they lose majority and the game because of it

[lunar schooner]

and it's not coming back

[quiet junco]

Who said anything about hangman?

[lunar schooner]

it's outright broken af in tt but in any other balanced list, OOPS HANGMAN REMOVED YOUR MAJ

[quiet junco]

I said they would die of guilt, doesn't mean they need to be hanged by hangman they can just kill themselves tomorrow

[dusky wyvern]

for all intents and purposes, these are the exact same punishment

[unique kestrel]

Nah this role is dookie bro try again 6ths times the charm

[quiet junco]

On one hand, you are telling me it's way too powerful, on the other hand you are telling the the punishment is too much wtf do you want then

Omg my grammar

[lunar schooner]

The post is too confusing and this role is filling vigi's niche.

[dusky wyvern]

it's just an inherently flawed concept

[lunar schooner]

yes because you simply don't get hangman

get good

[desert onyx]

Town Shroud

[lunar schooner]

I was thinking the same thing lol

[desert onyx]

what even is the point in this actually

Vigi is just better in every way

[candid elk]

you WILL shroud the seer

[quiet junco]

Oh wait yeah it's like town shroud just realised

[candid elk]

i mean give them a gun

[dusky wyvern]

you should shroud the seer NOW

[desert onyx]

yeah good job, you gave a Cleaver to the potion master

[dusky wyvern]

again, this is arms dealer

[desert onyx]

too bad you either kill a Townie or nothing happens

[quiet junco]

Tf is an arms dealer?

[lunar schooner]

this isn't even necessarily true, most coven/apoc can't visit their own faction and nks won't show "killed by a butcher"

[dusky wyvern]

mafia.gg role that does the same thing

[lunar schooner]

so you can confirm two townies this way

[quiet junco]

Oh cool, I wanna try that then

[quiet junco]

This is why I am saying that the punishment seems balanced because of the power of the role

[muted imp]

Right, isn't it that tosa mafia role

[fiery hare]

corporate

[dusky wyvern]

i do not like tosa

[muted imp]

Right

[fiery hare]

why

[lunar schooner]

extreme low rolling doesn't balance extreme high rolling

???

[dusky wyvern]

i haven't seen much of it but it looks poorly thought out

[fiery hare]

what did tosa do to you

have you actually played it

[dusky wyvern]

no but i read the doc

[desert onyx]

what is tosa

[lunar schooner]

ooh can we talk about tosa elsewhere?

[quiet junco]

Since we are talking about other social deduction games, has anyone played mafia42?

[lunar schooner]

i am interested in discussing it

[desert onyx]

Town of Salem: Ass?

[fiery hare]

well I'd say you should play it first

[muted imp]

True

[lunar schooner]

someone make a thread for ToS:A

[fiery hare]

someone elses role thread is a perfect place to discuss it

[muted imp]

Tosa has plenty of roles

[desert onyx]

since we are discussing about another social deduction game can I interest you in Blood on the Clocktower

[muted imp]

N stuff

[fiery hare]

[lunar schooner]

nvm

[quiet junco]

For anyone who wants to know, I have two more suggestions after which I will stop suggesting stuff so you guys don't lose your mind

[muted imp]

Damn that one aswell

Good stuff

[desert onyx]

[quiet junco]

Burh

[fiery hare]

maybe I should give that a go again

[desert onyx]

good decision

[muted imp]

Town idiot

[quiet junco]

Alright guys, I will write my next two suggestions and then I am done with this channel

[desert onyx]

that one almost flew over my head

I was about to say "it's called village idiot but ok"

[muted imp]

Right it's village

I forget

[desert onyx]

oh 😭

[muted imp]

Better sheriff

[desert onyx]

eh

[quiet junco]

Okay and it's done

[marble kayak]

Town of Salem: Anticipation.

[toxic fog]

People on this server are cruel and don't know that some people aren't balance professionals in this channel. This doesn't work, mostly because it's autoconfirmed and you don't have control over your kills, which leads to a situation like vanilla crusader or veteran, where the role ends up being unfun.

[tepid marlin]

literally mafia.gg

[tepid marlin]

"damn bro this post makes me dead"

[tepid marlin]

same thing

TOSA has some good changes

but holy shit the new roles they add are awful

and some other balancing changes are also just... bad

[marble kayak]

Invest hasn't changed, it just went to Bloxton to get a latte

[tepid marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-funny-wtf-wth-jesse-gif-17336046

[marble kayak]

Courtisy.

[marble kayak]

It's similar to the Bloxton version

[fickle geyser]

suggestion ban role when?

[devout token]

95% of role suggesters quit before they get more likes than dislikes

[lunar schooner]

Getting likes isn't hard and shouldn't be the defining factor. Some people post more obvious suggestions which are more likely to get likes because people can understand them. Whereas complicated ones many people will just skip over.

[devout token]

95% of role suggesters quit before their suggestion doesnt suck

[fickle geyser]

guess i'm 5% GG https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1340766308555559043

[dusky wyvern]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1339951952817164425 mwahahaha

[quiet junco]

Has anyone here every played or heard of mafia42?

[devout token]

guys im loving the energy but neither of those are role suggestions

[lunar schooner]

The wiki, “Experienced players use abbreviations.”
Said abbreviations:

[quiet nymph]

should i flex my post too

[lunar schooner]

Like just say host💀

[gray steppe]

guys lets all flex our best role suggestions (there are no good role suggestions)

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1357747696882024709

[quiet nymph]

new role or any sort of role suggestion including role changes

[lunar schooner]

I kinda suggested the buff for new admirer

[gray steppe]

I always just suggest socialite reworks whenever I want to make a role suggestion

[quiet nymph]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1327303917360381992

[gray steppe]

very bizarre to see my like on a post I do not remember reading

[quiet nymph]

lmao

[cloud dome]

if you kill a town you get conjed fr

[gentle ridge]

"you will died of guilt the next day"

[fickle geyser]

in that case i didnt get it but temp did https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1265069326893842523

modifiers are counted as roles in game code (ids for them are 200+) and you used to be able to #mention them but it was removed (still considered roles tho :trol:)

[narrow trench]

Might the issue be if your post has too many characters without nitro ? If not you can try editing your initial post to be formatted or comment a formatted character sheet immediately after opening the post

[tepid marlin]

self confirmer so it's a tpow

or just unbaalcned

[tepid marlin]

that is WELL under the limit
idk ig discord fucking hates him

[fickle geyser]

good

it wasnt a good suggestion anyway

[desert onyx]

despite this game being based off of complexity, this is just how the Town of Salem community is

now, go on and play All Any if you're feelin lucky.

[lunar schooner]

I totally quit the game guys, I’m not on ToS definitely not

[desert onyx]

yeah we know you're playing among

damn you've been playing among us for like 3 days now you should probably sleep

[soft blade]

Shroud (Town)

[swift totem]

At least it isn't 16

[tepid marlin]

this works in a set-up SDG with items

like mafiascum/mafia.gg/duesexmafia/fucking any other set-up game (not botc thou)

but the problem with this is

1. it's a obvious self-revealer and unless you have an evil role mimicking this (please DON'T make that) then this has to be either to be a special/tpow role

2. this game is not programmed for items so this is going to cause problems (the book is a status effect and doesn't change your visit)

3. this is a serious nuetral bullier and can backfire even worse than monarch

could work in another game

but here? fuck no

also your clear lack of understanding about game bucket balance was shown

when you switched the allignment form TS to TK

despite

1. you don't do the killing yourself
2. you don't have much control over your kills (why trapper is TP and trickster is TK)

1. it's a obvious self-revealer and unless you have an evil role mimicking this (please DON'T make that) then this has to be either to be a special/tpow role

i would say study the game more

study other games

try to avoid self-confirming at all times

and try not to make roles too powerful within a given allignment

again

as cool of an idea this is

this is just... too much

in both chaos

and kill power

[lunar schooner]

tpows are just a bad concept in general, pros mayor and marshal all overlap in the most unhealthy way. Mayor would be fine as a standalone tpow, jailor could've been a heavily nerfed tk, all other tpows could be deleted but alas.

[quiet junco]

Oh yeah I totally agree most tpow should be deleted except Mayor and maybe jailer. Also Deputy really seems like a one bullet prosecutor than a TK.

[swift totem]

Jailor was tk in tos1

[sick void]

shitty role bumped 😱

[swift totem]

Bumping smh

[desert onyx]

why

[tepid marlin]

jailor could've been a heavily nerfed tk
EHHHHH

[quiet junco]

Why are people still talking on this thread?

[fiery hare]

THEY BUMPED THEIR OWN THREAD, MODS LOCK IT AND BAN THEM