Jester Rework - Identity theft

[ember violet]

Jester
Neutral Special (Unique)
No Atk
No Def

Win condition :

• You cannot win.

Abilities :

Possess (Night ability, One time use)

• Gain a charge upon Dying.
• Possess a player.
• If they are Town aligned, you will take control of their body and gain a Neutral Pariah wincon. (Think of a Serial Killer Skinning)
• If they are Evil, join their factional night chat, or if they lack one, gain a factional night chat with them.
• While Possessing a Factional Evil, you will gain the abilities of a random Common Coven Role (Note : You may not hold the Necronomicon).
• While Possessing a Non Factional Evil, you will gain the ability to Visit every other night to deal a Basic Attack to a target of your choice.
• If the player you are Possessing dies, you also die.
• If you dont pick a player to Possess, you will Possess a random player.

Attributes :

• You do not gain access to the dead chat upon dying for the first time.
• You appear as a Town member to Town Investigatives
• If you Possess an Evil player, you will win with their Faction.

TLDR :

• Jester no longer instantly wins upon being lynched ; Instead, they need to possess a player and complete their new wincon.
• Jester ability triggers upon dying from any source.
• Do not let me cook while Im severely sleep deprived.

[jade plover]

This is nice but ehhhh

The whole, you want to die at any cost thing can end up being extremely toxic

Since you are baiting literally everyone to kill you at night or hang in the day

[ember violet]

Toxic in which sense

if you are talking about player being toxic so they are hung, thats a moderation issue

if you are talking about how wanting to die at any cost might have unintended effects, I can see it but I dont see how it would be an issue

since this is meant to be a chaotic role restricted to a neutral special bucked

[wooden sky]

So if you haunt an evil player it’s just a… do nothing sim?

I mean current jester already is but it seems odd that if you haunt town you rejoin the game and have to win, but if you haunt and evil you just have to sit there

Also this is a role town can literally do nothing against (any death brings it back), it’s essentially just a 2-life evil

[worn carbon]

this is NS so it removes jester from most modes 🔥

[stark yew]

I think only controlling town is fun for the jester, like if you possess an evil player, you literally just do nothing...?

you exist only as +1 chat, you dont even do anything else

[teal moth]

Maybe it can exist as a factional pariah

[wooden sky]

This might as well be neutral pariah because that’s all it’s doing, is doing neutral pariah more powerfully than neutral pariah does itself (assuming you target town to haunt, which you always will)

Me when we hang the neutral pariah (they are coming back again and we’re so fucked)

[teal moth]

Like possessing coven makes it wanna make coven lose

[wooden sky]

If this was going to work it would definitely need a change in either how haunting town or haunting evil works because they’re so wildly different

[stark yew]

Pros:

• Remove Jester from majority of gamemode
• Possessing Townie and become NP with town roles

Cons:

• Possessing an evil role and literally doing nothing else

[wooden sky]

I was going to say this is the single most anti-town Neutral Special, but vampire exists so I’m actually lying

[teal moth]

Removes jester is a con

[teal moth]

Vampire is pro town

[wooden sky]

Vampire is not pro town

Vampire is pro vampire

It feels like it’s pro town because it gives people who WERE town a new win con

[teal moth]

Ok maybe this rework makes I better

[stark yew]

Anyway I think possessing an evil role should change to something else, or if you attempt to possess an evil you just possess a random townie instead (give you info that the person is evil)

[teal moth]

But town doesnt suffer too much from vanilla vampire

Hiw about this

[wooden sky]

This is just factually incorrect? Vampire reduced towns chance of winning insanely

[worn carbon]

this is the best jester rework so far as long as the possess evil thing gets changed yea

[wooden sky]

There are whole modes built on a single vampire fucking over town

I like what this is doing for town, but the evil needs changing

Also double life evil = dangerous territory

Town is arguably punished EVEN HARDER for hanging an evil

[teal moth]

If you possess an evil you will work towards that evil team losing
If you die as that role before eliminating that team, you lose

[stark yew]

I had similar idea of possesion jester but I forgot about it and left it in my notes for 5 months

[teal moth]

I guess but would rather be on a1v1 against a vampire or a coven?

[wooden sky]

Town loses in both

The only different is you win

[stark yew]

Town after throwing in tos1 aa so they can get a vamp win instead

[teal moth]

Ok so town ITSELF hurts from vampire but not the individual players

[teal moth]

I won as vet

[wooden sky]

You said “1v1” with no context

Consider the fact that attempting to get yourself converted on purpose, even if it’s a 3 town game in TAA, is considered throwing because you are working against your wincon

(Which is sad but reasonable)

[teal moth]

Even if you work towards your wincon

You can just choose to focus on other evils

[wooden sky]

All this is just to say this arguably isn’t as bad for town as vamps so it could be considered, but I doubt this would have a place in any list

[teal moth]

Ignoring vamps as long as other evils are present isnt throwing

[wooden sky]

I said “purposefully attempting to get yourself converted”, you are saying something else

If it’s a 2v1 sided town and vamp has 2 charges and you decide to let them convert you

You are game throwing

[teal moth]

Also this doesn't remove jester since exe exisits

[wooden sky]

Make executioner neutral special too 🔥 🔥 🔥

[worn carbon]

remove jester clause from exe

or that

[wooden sky]

What if we banned all neutral evils except Doomsayer for true peak gameplay

[teal moth]

What if I wanted to take a piss

[fervent wind]

@teal moth has leveled up! (12 ➜ 13)

[wooden sky]

b a n n e d

[wooden sky]

Tatsu you do not belong here

[stark yew]

thats an exe problem

[wooden sky]

Still think Executioner and Jester need to be reworked as a pair and NOT be changed as alignment

[stark yew]

or you can just make exe change target or win if target was killed by town alligned player

[teal moth]

Exe just becomes a kingmaker

[wooden sky]

Exe winning as the result of Jailor/Vigi/Dep(sometimes) is a suggestion I approve of and know exists in this channel already

Killed by evil is the real issue

[stark yew]

idk theres suggestion of making exe np lite and win if all townie dies. alternative exe get hangmaned

[wooden sky]

Executioner is still, for all intents and purposes, Neutral Pariah

[stark yew]

if you are in kingmaker scenario as exe, its the same thing as if you were a jest anyway

[wooden sky]

“Neutral” Evil my ass this mf is anti-town

I don’t have any great suggestions for Exe and Jest reworks but they both need to be changed

[teal moth]

These guys love anti town evils

[stark yew]

Fuck town me and my homies HATE TOWN

(i only scroll town roles)

[wooden sky]

I want exe to NOT be purely anti town

[teal moth]

If it were up to them inquisitor would have 3 townies as heretics

[wooden sky]

Tf you lumping me into this for

[stark yew]

I agree about inq have 2 townie target minimum

3 not for me

[wooden sky]

Exe should not be anti-town because it’s not a pariah

Inquis is in a fairly healthy space imo

[stark yew]

if exe target get killed by evil, you need to lynch the evil player

(you dont know who is it)

[teal moth]

That one townie in taa

[wooden sky]

Actually peak suggestion?

(No idea how this would work)

[teal moth]

Town gets punished for hanging the evil

[stark yew]

an Evil player has killed you target! Find them and get your revenge

ofc its a bit dumb since it turn exe to basically same problem as old exe

[teal moth]

Why do you want revenge for someone you hate

[wooden sky]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1334201590952755281

Was looking for this

Very similar to that idea

(But for inquis)

[stark yew]

because you want to kill them, so you take revenge when they kill your target

but nah this suggestion is bad because it has the problem of old exe with evil killing a townie (their job) and it reward town

[wooden sky]

I think implementing that for executioner wouldn’t be a terrible idea honestly, but after your target dies you can basically go “I’m exe my target died” and bam new townie.

Executioner is just difficult in general

[teal moth]

The wolvesville route?

[stark yew]

I prefer the NP-Lite route of exe rather than whatever we have rn if you want to remove exe turning jest

[wooden sky]

I have not the slightest clue what that means

[teal moth]

Exe turns judge

Also

Exe and pros names should be swapped

A prosecutor works to get someone convicted regardless of their innocence
Their job is to convince the court ur guilty

[wooden sky]

Just like, if target dies they gain NP wincon?

[teal moth]

While an execution kills someone

[stark yew]

Killing target from town alligned player or if all townies die

exe win

[teal moth]

Should np roles like judge be unique

[wooden sky]

Y e s

[stark yew]

NP should be unique yes

[teal moth]

Cuz making exe a sitting duck sounds awful

[stark yew]

you can make them not unique but like i think they are very strong not unique

[teal moth]

What about auditor

[stark yew]

2 judges just have 2 court in a day and removing 2 lynch

[wooden sky]

What about it?

Are you dissing Audi?

[stark yew]

no info for everyone

[teal moth]

Auditor seems balanced not unique

[wooden sky]

[stark yew]

Smoke bomb

[teal moth]

Does smoke block ti?

[wooden sky]

Audi can fake tav semi reliably, and otherwise can obscure tons of info

[stark yew]

I think audi is the weakest np if you can have non unique

[wooden sky]

That’s literally smokes entire purpose

[stark yew]

but its still strong

[wooden sky]

Apart from the whole revealing role thing

Why does an Auditor have a snokebomb anyways

[teal moth]

To sneakily check for tax fraud

[wooden sky]

sneakily throws smoke bomb through your window

[teal moth]

Is stars pawn broken non unique?

[wooden sky]

Do you mean like… multiple SSs or like more than one pariah

[teal moth]

Multiple

More pariah exist in taa

[wooden sky]

Probably broken but I couldn’t say for sure

Broken as in “op” it would probably work

[teal moth]

Do you think neutral pariah will be added in vanilla?

[stark yew]

pariah was made unique because multiple of them spawning in april/taa is stupid

[teal moth]

Pariah in taa is just a spectator mode since u leave d2 or d3

[wooden sky]

Pariah seems like something BMG would avoid because it’s very easy to game throw with it

You get pushed by a coven and out of spite you go “they’re coven” because you’re an uneducated vanilla player

[teal moth]

Bmg isnt in control

[stark yew]

BMG has left tos2 for like 4 months

[wooden sky]

Am I stupid

[stark yew]

yes

[wooden sky]

I don’t keep up with that

Who tf controls it then

Is it all Curtis and Tuba

[teal moth]

Yes u didnt know that?

Yes

[wooden sky]

I genuinely had no idea what in the hell

My point still stands

[teal moth]

The people making the mods are the ones controlling vanilla

[stark yew]

Digital Bandidos has bought town of salem 2 for 8 months at this point

[wooden sky]

I don’t know who the hell Digital Bandidos is I just play the funny social deduction game

[teal moth]

This is a new player problem

It's not like jackal

[wooden sky]

I’m just saying I don’t think it’s likely to happen as long as TOS is free

[teal moth]

Where outing opposing evils becomes too easy

[clear chasm]

Still has the problem of jester always being -1 vote for the town, and now cannot be shot or killed at night

[wooden sky]

Actual discussion about this post ends here, read above

[teal moth]

Yeah this doesn't solve jester issues at l

[wooden sky]

Like I said this arguably makes hanging jester even worse for town since you not only lose a townie but GAIN A PARIAH

[teal moth]

I m too easy to distract lol

Or lose an evil and gain their pariah

[worn carbon]

ok

alternative solution: remove jester

[wooden sky]

Another win from Mikrus

[worn carbon]

-# (which this partially does due to changing jester's alignment to NS)

[teal moth]

Exe ?

[clear chasm]

Rework exe

[wooden sky]

Another day another “rework executioner and jester”

[worn carbon]

just remove jester clause from exe and do something else if target dies idfk

[wooden sky]

This

[teal moth]

To?

[wooden sky]

Anyways Jester deserves a rework but this isn’t it

👎

[worn carbon]

switch target

[wooden sky]

Evil town can’t kill in any sense is a bad evil

[teal moth]

You just become a kingmaker after all town dies

[wooden sky]

Which is why exe having NP wincon is the bandage fix we love and need

[worn carbon]

what changes

from current

[teal moth]

Exe only sides against town

Currently

[ember violet]

Prob gonna do smth like that yeah

[teal moth]

Now when townies die who wins depends on who you get as a target

[ember violet]

Just lemme get some sleep frst

[worn carbon]

if all town dies you become jester 💀

so it becomes kingmaker either way

nothing changes from current

[teal moth]

No they just vote you and solo jest win

If not then they would win anyway

[silk socket]

you turn into séancing medium

[ember violet]

Updated the abilities of a Jester possessing an Evil :

• Factional Evils (Coven / Apoc / Pandora) will grant the jester a random coven role.
• Non Factional Evils will grant the jester the ability to deal a basic attack to a player every other night

[worn carbon]

💀

[teal moth]

Doesn't fix anything

[ember violet]

your opinion is null and void

[teal moth]

?

Well what is it supposed to fix

[rancid ibex]

I had an idea similar to this yesterday but it’s really difficult to balance

[kind holly]

Last update was in like June so more realistically 10 months but yea

[silk socket]

The second point is just no

Why tf are we giving NEs killing abilities

[jade plover]

the doomsayer, pirate, inquisitor, and jester in question

[silk socket]

Die