[OVERHAUL] The Amnesiac probably used to be a marathon champion from how much they Wander around

[neon hare]

"You are an influential figure that forgot their place in the town."

Amnesiac (Town Support)

Attack: None
Defense: None

Attributes:

• If two Amnesiacs attempt to Recall the same Town Power, #1334122640289300524 message.

Wander (♾️, 🌙)

• Travel around Salem, attempting to recollect some memory as to what you once were.
• You may visit every player only once.
• After visiting two players, you may choose to Recall any Town Investigative or Town Protective role.
• After visiting three players, you may choose to Recall any Town Killing or Town Support role (besides Amnesiac).
• After visiting every alive player, you may choose to Recall a Town Power role.

Recall (1️⃣, ☀️)

• Attempt to remember what you once were.
• You may use Recall once you've visited at least two players.
• When using Recall, it will show you every role that you can turn into, based on the conditions you've successfully met.
• You may not Recall Town Powers that are or were previously in the game.
• You will change into your role at sunset.

[past lance]

If two Amnesiacs attempt to Recall the same Town Power, no fucking clue.

i see this is a well thought out suggestion

[neon hare]

Initially made it as a joke of a lost soul wandering the earth looking for their memories, but then it turned into something I thought was decent enough to present.

I dislike the idea of a player basically being roleblocked because they lost an RNG check, so I didn't commit to the "if two X chooses target Y, one doesn't succeed" approach.

The only other idea that could work then is that the other Amne gets a different Tpow, but imagine if two Amnes choose Jailor and one gets shafted into being Mayor when they otherwise would've chosen a role from a different subalignment

The third idea is to make Amne unique, but when Deputy was unique back then, it was due to the fact that it was a budget pros and had as much influence and power as one. This doesn't have such power or influence so turning it into a unique role due to the potential scenario of two Amnes getting to the same exact position of trying to remember a Tpow on the same day and both choosing the same Tpow seems whack

I don't want another situation like what happened with TOS1 Retri, where it was weak enough to reliably fake, but due to it's unique clause, it resulted in players trying to convince they're the real Ret and the others were fake

So I'd argue I did think about it, at least a bit

[gentle shard]

idk its a messy situation for sure

[dapper wedge]

One of the amnesiac fail to transform

[neon hare]

Essentially the TOS2 Ret approach, the current Amne approach (kinda), the Split or Steal approach, or the TOS1 Ret approach

So option 1

[dapper wedge]

Ret approach is best approach

[gentle shard]

im gonna say a 3 letter acronym you might not like

[neon hare]

Uh oh

[gentle shard]

r…

jk

it depends though

try to go through every possible solution before going for rng where itd be absolutely necessary (like in rets case)

[neon hare]

Technically, the first two options are RNG (either one turns into the desired Tpow while the other gets shafted OR one turns into the desired Tpow while the other turns into a less desirable Tpow)

Randomly, since I believe number prio is worse than RNG

[gentle shard]

i dont like the second one really

tpow is still a tpow even if its weaker (like mayor)

would be awful to play against 2 tpows just spawning out of nowhere after killing 1 tpow already

[neon hare]

To be fair, the only way this could turn into a Tpow is if it visits every alive player

[dapper wedge]

Issue with all the other choices is it gives you info. But I have no clue how to fix it

[neon hare]

And the only way for this Tpow split issue to occur is if both players get every alive player marked at the same time

Imagine if two different Hex Masters both Hexed the whole Town at the same time

That's basically the above scenario

[dapper wedge]

Still a possible interaction to account for

Sadly

[neon hare]

Yeah

I don't think info is too big of an issue though

It's not like TOS1 Medium lol

[neon hare]

My main issue is the fact that the Amnesiac spent the whole game to make a dramatic entrance only to get fucked over by a coin toss because someone reached the finish line at the same time

Like, imagine being the Amne that refused to turn into a role that can assist in the early game like Seer or Vigi only to get to the Recall condition at the same time as someone else and lose a coin toss

Would you rather get roleblocked and choose a new role tomorrow, or just get a consolation award as a subprime Tpow now?

[neon hare]

Also the "info" in question is basically knowledge that a Tpow they wanted is in play (and that info is not all that vital since Tpows are already pretty loud)

[covert forge]

this is an interesting idea but it also feels super slow

like for example why would this ever become TI

[viral quest]

I do not like this idea since I would need to wait whole 2 days just to be cleric (yes I know every single amne would be seer)

[covert forge]

seer?

I think this ends up being deputy like 70% of the time

[viral quest]

another day for it

but ye dep have also big chance

[covert forge]

being a seer starting on n3 really isn’t that good and super hard to conf yourself

even if you have to wait until d5 to be dep

you can pop out and kill someone instantly

only other role I see this being is veteran for that reason

vigi is completely unviable because of how late it starts shooting

[mild drum]

trickster could be viable

[viral quest]

#1331313162917646471

[mild drum]

depending on town’s overall loadout

[viral quest]

(jok

[mild drum]

no

[viral quest]

in this case they could count

[dapper wedge]

Trickster is in an environment that isn't healthy for the role lol

[mild drum]

cleric should be flatout deleted if that happens

[viral quest]

as I once said I would like to be cleric over trickster

so this is your opinion here

[covert forge]

i mean wouldn’t most tps just be better

[mild drum]

trapper is a waste of time

crusader is very viable

bodyguard is usually unviable

I was thinking more if lots of TP are dead / don’t claim

[viral quest]

bg is powerfull just sucks to be them

[dapper wedge]

Trickster is cleric but if you are successful you can't protect again

Until attack

[covert forge]

bg doesn’t actually sound that bad compared to other tps with this role imo

I just think it would be so risky to turn into a role which can’t easily confirm itself

which ig that’s why crus would be good but

[viral quest]

bg would be around 1% bcs of one thing, you do not like to be dead

[covert forge]

I still think this would be deputy most of the time though

the tpow use case is super funny but completely unviable

[viral quest]

I would be sure in one thing, I would not like to be amne bcs loading screen would be even worse

but good try

[dapper wedge]

Crus is good it's only issue is that UO isn't really a UO

So it's insanely self confirmable

[neon hare]

It can turn into a TI d3 and use the ability n3. It might usually prioritize turning into a TP or waiting an extra night and turning into a TK/TS, but I thought it might as well have the opportunity to turn into a TI by d3.

The Tpow gimmick is just an alternate usecase

[dapper wedge]

I do appreciate that it values patience

[viral quest]

now when I think about that, amne as town member is bad idea in general since you have loading screen but can not suprice players being second pb

[dapper wedge]

Me when bad graveyard

[neon hare]

The purpose of this role isn't to outret Ret, especially considering it can turn into Ret by n3.

[viral quest]

also what ts is so powerfull that you need to wait as long as for tk

?

[mild drum]

i never said it was?

[neon hare]

All of them I'd argue

[dapper wedge]

Except admirer

[neon hare]

I'm assuming that's why you disliked it

[dapper wedge]

Ret and tav are pretty good self confirmable roles

[mild drum]

I don’t like philosopher esque roles

it would be a stale meta

“remember this”

[viral quest]

tav yes, ret has self confirment at the level of coroner (even worse)

[dapper wedge]

It's swingy

It's not set at all

[neon hare]

Send a link to a wiki about Philosopher 🙏

[dapper wedge]

It isn't close to coro at all

[viral quest]

you realised how much self confirment coro has?

[dapper wedge]

At best you get a dead mon at worse you get an admirer

[viral quest]

no I am not joking here

[dapper wedge]

You aren't real then

[mild drum]

https://wiki.bloodontheclocktower.com/Philosopher

[dapper wedge]

You can't compare rets confirm ability to coroner

Same goes with any other role

[viral quest]

coro is only role that tracker can see visit both dead and alive players

[neon hare]

Generally speaking, the situation arises for different roles to Recall. Also the Tpow Hex Bomb gimmick exists as well.

[mild drum]

its literally just pick a town role and gain the ability

[mild drum]

speaking of hex

this can’t even remember tpow against a hex master unless it dies early

[dapper wedge]

Relying on only one role to be able to confirm you isn't good

[viral quest]

1. ret as well may be necro
2. ret may be forced afk bcs no body to use
   3.since it is not ti you need to stay quiet about role

don't get me wrong bro has self confirment but as coro do

[dapper wedge]

It's swingy. It depends on the graveyard it isn't tied to only one role

Unlike cori

Coro

[neon hare]

So simply personal preference. Gotcha.

[outer arch]

why cant you recall Amnesiac

it'd be funny

[viral quest]

coro can also do his job well and confirm it self by finding evil

[neon hare]

Too much comedy

[mild drum]

usually you pick what good is missing since if you whiff it someone is drunk

[dapper wedge]

Still not confirmed even if it finds an evil unless it's like a role list like cvip

[viral quest]

also ret is so easy to fakeclaim that I remeber in tos 1 them being treated as easy fakeclaim (I know re-usinf bodies)

[dapper wedge]

I can do the same thing as like half the other tis too

[dapper wedge]

Ret being a easy fake claim is not an issue

[neon hare]

I mean, generally even with this, you won't always just choose the strongest role in the game all the time, instead changing it up depending on the situation (low TIs, low TPs, good graveyard)

[viral quest]

if smb claims coro it's 50/50 coven/coro (not any other evil), so if you out coven likely you are coro

[neon hare]

Not really a static "visit twice and turn into Seer, or three times and turn into vigi"

[viral quest]

ppl unlikely out their team

[dapper wedge]

Ret

• Depends on graveyard for confirm ability
• Can be tracked to the grave
• Can sudo reveal itself

Coro

• Only confirmable by one role
• Can still be fake even after finding info

[neon hare]

Zelofa I'm fairly confident you're getting baited by Zak over here

[viral quest]

you forrgot to add coro is 100% confirmed if traxked

[mild drum]

it feels like you will visit twice to become a crusader, seer or thrice for a deputy or veteran

and thats pretty much it

[dapper wedge]

"only confirmable by one role" RET GETS TRACKED TO THE GRAVE TOO

[viral quest]

but it can be nexro

[dapper wedge]

And????

You are confirmed ret/Necro

And as Necro I fake claim coroner too

[viral quest]

if ret is tracked it still maybe evil, if coro is tracked no longer it can be evil

[dapper wedge]

That's just not true

Necro can take coroner and ret equally

Fake

[viral quest]

you know coro also visit alive player?

[dapper wedge]

You still can be confirmed if your good at the game

We are acting like unknown obstacle and roleblockes don't exist

[neon hare]

Ret if it's a good graveyard, Tav if you feel roleblocking is a nice gimmick to have (and there are no suspected rb immune players), Cleric for it's consistent barriers, Oracle for Jailor/multiple of the same TI, LO or Tracker if you want to confirm visits, vigi if you're playing for the long game, or if you're playing for the REALLY long game, you go for Tpow.

[viral quest]

we are purely speaking of being confirmed so "being good" here is not argument, as I said I do not say coro is more powerfull I say I consider them more confirmable

[dapper wedge]

Unknown obstacle and roleblockes

I have a question

Is coroner more confirmable than vigilante and monarch?

[neon hare]

There are still roles that have usecases in play that aren't one of the 4 you've mentioned

[viral quest]

ok right if you get tracked ans the same night you get rbd you have same level as ret but who roleblocks coro?

[past lance]

really long game

and where does this long game exist?

[dapper wedge]

Is coroner more confirmable than vigilante and monarch

[viral quest]

no

[dapper wedge]

Then ret is more confirmable

[mild drum]

town traitor since its forcibly stalled by 3 days

[dapper wedge]

Because ret can use those bodies

[neon hare]

It can play like a Town Hex Master if it so chooses.

[viral quest]

you could be necro

[past lance]

OK THEN FULL COMMIT

[dapper wedge]

What if you shoot an evil coven

[past lance]

ONCE EVERYONE IS VISITED IT DOES A TOWN HEX BOMB

[neon hare]

[viral quest]

necro can do that

[neon hare]

Ironically I had an idea for a sort of "ToU Snitch" that has to visit all alive players to reveal all evils

[viral quest]

not once I outed my teamate to win

[dapper wedge]

Because a necromancer would stifle their coven for no reason?

Ret is as confirmable as the grave yard

Coroner is only confirmable if tracker exists

[neon hare]

Actually I think I posted this idea in Bad/Joke role ideas lol

[dapper wedge]

That is completely different

[viral quest]

if they are sus it's taking cost for good cause

[dapper wedge]

You can't compare rets confirm ability to any role

[dapper wedge]

And what if they aren't?

[viral quest]

then don't do it

but if they aren't ret would also not shoot them

[dapper wedge]

Exactly a ret would

[covert forge]

Admirer 🔥

[dapper wedge]

A ret would scum read an evil and if they are correct they get confirmed

A necromancer would need to shoot someone's who's already sus and possibly get hung for not shooting right

Source: it happens every time theirs a vigi and necro is claiming ret

[viral quest]

say you were scared if you did not shoot

some player are not brave enouth to shoot in that senario

[dapper wedge]

Than that's their fault

Not the roles fault

[viral quest]

yes but remeber it's not played by perfect ai

[gentle shard]

tps are just very hard to design while making them as reliable and consistent as cleric

[viral quest]

we are humans

we are not flawless

[dapper wedge]

• you aren't forced to shoot instantly

You can wait till it's important

[gentle shard]

the only way to differentiate tps from cleric is to give them killpower which fucking sucks lol

we already have a whole subalignment dedicated to killing

[viral quest]

defime imporant

for some ppl voting 2 slow is important for some bro would need to confess

[neon hare]

I'd argue Oracle and Trapper (even without their killpower) is pretty differentiated from Cleric

[dapper wedge]

Are your genuinely stupid

I'm sorry but what

[viral quest]

there is no point were eveyone say there importnat STARTS

[neon hare]

Issue in regards to unoriginality is Crus and BG IMO

[gentle shard]

oracle is different in a pretty bad way

which still makes it worse cleric 95% of the time

[dapper wedge]

When you are forced to shoot to not be outed fake???? It's about to be evil maj???? There's so many scenarios

There's no way you can't think of any

[gentle shard]

id argue trappers the only one that distinguishes itself from cleric but then also trapper has kp too

[viral quest]

then it may be 2 late

[dapper wedge]

Trapper is trickster and old spy

[gentle shard]

“trapper is trickster” huh

[viral quest]

all I say is that for some ppl it would be sus that I did not shot in some minor senario

[mild drum]

its bg and percept+

[viral quest]

ok in case of defending maj yes it is impornat

[gentle shard]

bg that doesnt off itself

[dapper wedge]

Yeah no im done

[viral quest]

but there you could make wrong decision

[neon hare]

Oracle follows a different gimmick, which is not as good in scenarios where the role of the player needing protection is not apparent (but the player is), but good when the role of the player is apparent (but the player isn't)

It's useful for high priority targets that don't want to show themselves

[viral quest]

and does it mean you are necro? not

[neon hare]

For instance, Oracle sucks in TPLO meta

[gentle shard]

theres one simple reason why oracle sucks

[neon hare]

But if a Vigi/Dep/Jailor keeps quiet (or rolelist shenanigans), Oracle can shine

[gentle shard]

vfr role in antivfr game

[mild drum]

it sucks in a game thats punished for fullclaiming or being revealed

[neon hare]

It sucks when you're actively relying on vfr, instead of figuring out what roles are in play

[mild drum]

ideally the role is shot or some other rework is given to increase coverage while decreasing it being stupid

[mild drum]

if you can figure out what roles are in play usually coven can and who has them

then use their anti vfr artillery to shoot them

[neon hare]

The Jailor, Deputy, Vigilante, Crusader, and Tavern Keeper fake claiming:

And Trapper

[vale spruce]

turns into a different tpow 💀

[neon hare]

And Marshal (since that's realistically the only Tpow worth protecting if it's existence is not apparent)

[neon hare]

Keeping options open for if the people desire it

[vale spruce]

5 tpow game lets goo

[neon hare]

You do know

How hard it is to get there right?

[gentle shard]

isnt this bad for oracle

lol

[neon hare]

Wdym?

[vale spruce]

Having to visit ALL players for tpow is not a good idea. If you want a chance at being tpow you have to do basically nothing for 80% of the game and hope you live to see endgame with a dead tpow.

[neon hare]

You can choose to remember any Tpow that's not in play, not necessarily one from the grave

[vale spruce]

solo simulator

[neon hare]

You can either go for the Tpow route, or choose to put in your chips early and turn into a different role depending on the situation

Up to the player to decide

[vale spruce]

Town

[neon hare]

If they so choose, yes

Or a two night late TI/TP, or a three night late TS/TK

[vale spruce]

New and default fake claim.

With being possible, and only really a or who can effectively confirm you as not the , I don't see town ever even allowing an amne to go for the TPOW route.

Day 5 and the TS claim seen visiting claims amne going for tpow. Nobody is trusting that.

Effectively "I'm " claim, but intead of knighting you become some town member.

[neon hare]

To be fair, a) that's for the player to decide, b) there's always a means out via other roles to Recall and c) there's nothing wrong with a role that's easy to fake claim

[vale spruce]

It's 1v2. You finally can become TPOW. There were no Marshals in the game. Now's your chance, all you have to do it wait until sundown.
...
...
You've been found Guilty!

[neon hare]

Okay

Ignore the Tpow mechanic

How about the roles that the majority of Amnes will turn into?

[vale spruce]

Visiting is weird. It's fine I suppose, but maybe a bit strong.

Rework the TPOW part.

[neon hare]

How so?

Reduce the number of visits?

It's Town Hex Master as you said

[vale spruce]

Hex Master isn't a well designed coven member.

Town delayed hex master with no teammates is terrible.

The town is going to be so small by the time you can become TPOW the coven is just going to kill you.

If it was all but 2/3 players it might be usable. At least then town hex master has a simulated coven.

[neon hare]

Like HMer, it's meant to be an alternate goal

Also @west trench Pin please 🥺

[vale spruce]

Like HMer, it's bad

^^ pin this

[neon hare]

Which is why it's not the only thing in it's kit

[west trench]

bro couldn't wait till I returned home

[neon hare]

Mb

[vale spruce]

Might as well remove it. You have to invest everything in to it for a chance, becoming Survivor.

[west trench]

joking please ping me more

[vale spruce]

Do you want to:
A. Be able to chose any role you want
B. Be town hex master with no teammates, delayed explosion, and no guarentee even once you pull it off

B is just a new player trap

It will help in one (1) tuba video and then never again

[mild drum]

how are you

[neon hare]

Wholesome 38

[west trench]

my legs hurt from walking 8 km

[mild drum]

😔

sad

[vale spruce]

you mean 5 FREEDOM UNITS

[mild drum]

wouldn’t it be like 8.5km for 5 freedom units

[west trench]

is freedom unit supposed to be mile what

[mild drum]

ye

[neon hare]

8 km is 4.971 freedom units

[west trench]

overestimation lol

yea

I'm not gonna fact check that I trust you

[neon hare]

I'm assuming it's miles as well lol

[vale spruce]

no

[west trench]

anyways thread derailed wtf who did this back on topic if you want idk

[vale spruce]

oh yeah

hex master bad

[mild drum]

ye

[neon hare]

😱 offtopic1111!11111

[vale spruce]

this is the #New Town Hex Master Role thread

[neon hare]

Should the funny Tpow transformation be 7 visits or rest of everyone alive then?

I'm very adverse to the idea of making the role transform into a Tpow too easily

Which is why it's as hard as it is

[viral quest]

tbh looking at fact how hard it is to tranform into t pow let bro repeat t pow roles

like imagine 4 jailors

[vale spruce]

You can make it hard, but not at the cost of sacraficing all other value until it is acheived

That's the problem

[viral quest]

3 of them were amne

[vale spruce]

If it's a secondary you can work to while still being valuable it's fine

But you have to invest in it by doing nothing but visiting until then

The investment far outweighs the potential gain

[viral quest]

ye if amne visits every alive town member this is auto win

they become sk

town aligen

[neon hare]

The issue with that is that you now would essentially have two different roles

[vale spruce]

The current state can be bad without me having a better alternative on hand

[viral quest]

what if amne would evolve

[neon hare]

If you are Deputy, how many nights are you willing to go without shooting to turn into Jailor or Marshal?

[viral quest]

every night you become more powerfull random tp-> random ts -> random ti -> random tk -> random t ppw

[vale spruce]

Ok, if you're alternative plan is to choose Deputy and you're fine with shooting taking 2 days then it's a fine secondary goal. Very small use case.

[viral quest]

like you are tranformed but every day diffeent role

[vale spruce]

almost all town members get value over time

and deputy and leads needs to be readily available

[neon hare]

No I mean, let's say Deputy can transform into a Jailor after a set amount of time IF they don't shoot their shot. How many nights do you think is a suitable amount of waiting?

[viral quest]

3 days (so is jailor d5)

never count d1

[vale spruce]

In that scenario? A decent amount, Jailor is incredibly strong and can have a similar effect by simply Executing.

This isn't comparable to Amnesiac as you've proposed it. If it was Vigilante versus Jailor, where you have to decide how long without even using Load before switching, I'd say you're better off just prepping to shoot than risking dying.

[neon hare]

Obviously there are some discrepancies involved, specifically with the fact that Amne would take 3 nights to turn into Dep and a 4th to use their ability, so of course that needs to be factored in as well.

I'm just saying from a hypothetical, if you spawn as Deputy, how many nights without shooting are you willing to wait to turn into Jailor.

[gentle shard]

if the crus is fakeclaiming oracle cant protect them

[neon hare]

The oracle can?

[gentle shard]

or actually crus is a bad example

if the trickster claims cleric

you cant protect that player

[neon hare]

The idea is that the Oracle can protect confirmed roles without them outing themselves as that player

[gentle shard]

since theyre claiming cleric, not trick, and if you aegis cleric you wont protect them

[neon hare]

That's the benefit of direct protection.

Same with players who claim Tpow.

General rule for Oracle seems to be Marshal n1 (unless rolelist confirms something else)

If anyone claims Jailed, Jailor n2. Otherwise, go on a different confirmed role.

Anyways, this thread isn't about Oracle anyways

[viral rampart]

So can tt amne tell coven what tpows are in the game?

[neon hare]

lmao