Magician - Neutral Pariah

[light harbor]

Small Disclaimer: This is inspired by Shuffler cause I thought it was a cool role design but too powerful for CPOW so I put it at NP

[rigid shore]

As an NP then should it not have Etheral Powerful

[light harbor]

it was originally coven so I forgot to do so one sec

there lol

[flint karma]

For christs sake
ETHEREAL
IS
NOT
A
DEFENSE
TIER

ETHEREAL IS A DEFENSE TYPE

[light harbor]

um actually it is 🤓

[flint karma]

It literally isn’t

Read #1201939324556288050

You are literally told "you’re wrong" by the official role cards

[light harbor]

it technically is though, sure it goes by a type of defense power but it still counts as its own defense

[flint karma]

N o .

[rigid shore]

Yeah it’s why I said Ethereal Powerful specifically Etheral could in theory be basic or invincible

[light harbor]

Exactly

Ethereal defense isnt defined by Powerful defense just because its powerful

we just havent seen basic ethereal or invincible

[rigid shore]

Invincible Ethereal defense would protect against an Arsonist not a Vigilante

[rigid shore]

We kinda did

[light harbor]

we did?

[rigid shore]

All NP used to have Etheral Basic

[light harbor]

Oh

[rigid shore]

It got upped to Etheral Powerful

[flint karma]

Noah, fix the Defense for fucks sake

[light harbor]

well it's powerful now for vigilannte sake

[rigid shore]

No Vigi don’t care if it’s powerful or invincible Etheral

[light harbor]

Nope as long as NP's exist it's ethereal lmao

[rigid shore]

It got changed for Bers and WW mainly

[flint karma]

No it’s not.

[light harbor]

I mean Berserker mb

Bers/ww

[flint karma]

#1201939324556288050 just disproves what you said

Now GET OUT

[light harbor]

the library doesnt negate my opinion lmao

Ethereal Defense is its own defense

[flint karma]

Yes it does

[light harbor]

Just like scum defense

[flint karma]

Scum shield is a type

[light harbor]

no it is not

what is this argument lmao

[flint karma]

Ok then make a role with scumshield Defense and find a way to specify whether it’s basic, powerful or invincible

[light harbor]

well that's if the next role is a townie or not, except monarch most ppl dont take defense townies well

[rigid shore]

This has gotten out of hand but objectively speaking Ethereal is a modifier not a defense valve

Like how Rampage used to be exclusively on WW and thus a Powerful attack but rampage doesn’t mean it’s only a powerful attack as seen with Juggernaut in Tos1 or War in Tos2

[flint karma]

What

???

[light harbor]

?

you said make a role with scumshield and specify the defense Basic, Powerful or Invincible

[rigid shore]

I think what Lagspikes meant is more like I add a New NE role it’s defense value is Scum Shield as in it blocks 1 attack but that doesn’t specify the value of the defense

It could theoretically block an attack from war

Or just only save you from a Vigilante or Coven

[light harbor]

ohh

I mean okay

[flint karma]

Lagspikes?
@flint karma @hushed field @rocky willow @past solstice @fierce tiger @long valve or @cinder basalt

[light harbor]

lagspikes cult

ngl wanna join

[hushed field]

what

[rigid shore]

Crayola Lagspikes

[tame pasture]

i think theyre talking about lagspikes

[flint karma]

or what about @royal crypt

[mellow spoke]

why are we arguing over if ethereal is a defense type or value

who cares

it's fuckin ethereal

[light harbor]

godly defense

[cinder basalt]

There is an imposter there

[fierce tiger]

whomstve pinged me

[light harbor]

I believe we have an imposter amongus

[rocky willow]

nah i don’t think so

[royal crypt]

It was me

I did it

[livid moth]

idk if a vfa counter is good for the game

[light harbor]

wym

oh

I mean the ability isnt that good and could give a dreamweaver a vigi at best

esp with the no tpow thing

[livid moth]

if you made a role that isn't that good why is it here

this also just hard counters/confirms people lol

[light harbor]

Because it still has good uses in certain cases

[livid moth]

certain cases

[light harbor]

not really, it only notifies evils which tells them what ability theyre using

[livid moth]

ur just making ur argument worse

[livid moth]

so then what does ti do

[light harbor]

how

[livid moth]

does it just rb ti basically?

because otherwise it's not doing anything except confirming people

[light harbor]

How does this make my argument worse

[livid moth]

how does this stop tplo or any other meta

how does this counter tpows

[light harbor]

oop laggier spikes

[livid moth]

what does this actually add to the game other than making VFA "riskier" for 0 reason

[light harbor]

Doesn't need to stop tplo meta it's purpose is to swap roles in hopes to give evil an advantage by using the towns roles

[livid moth]

wow

better hope a vigi spawns

else you're getting zero value

this has no effect on the game

[light harbor]

there's way more roles than just vigilante if I'm correct there's more than one townie

[livid moth]

what roles are useful for evils on town

please inform me

[light harbor]

TP, TI, TK and TS

[livid moth]

TI is useful?

LOL

ah yes let me save someone with my tp ability

[short wedge]

I feel like swapping abilitys would be kind of useless for evils and benefit town?

Unless you found a vigilante

[light harbor]

TI - Gain information, TK - Kill people pew pew

TP - Protect

[livid moth]

what info are you gaining with ANY

of the ti

That you literally don't already know

[light harbor]

All exceptions that are spy and psychic

[livid moth]

wow this guy is enemies with my teammate guess he's not the magician

[short wedge]

Also this taking 3 nights to do something sucks

and thats assumeing you get correct guessers

every time

[light harbor]

It's kind of impossible to fail though

[short wedge]

n1 you guess a random players alignment

if you wrong

[livid moth]

this is literally slower than an apoc

[short wedge]

then fail

[livid moth]

with 0 benefit that apoc have

[livid moth]

in what situation do you want to protect someone

from your own night kill

[light harbor]

Apocalypse is irrelevant so idk why your talking about them

[livid moth]

CONFIRM them as town

and get rid of your kill for the night

[light harbor]

NK, TK, TP

there's more killers but like

[livid moth]

ah yes let's ruin the day of NK as NP

[light harbor]

they're more niche

[livid moth]

by the way PM covers half of these already

and pois/witch can rb/witch the rest

[light harbor]

pm doesnt always exist

[livid moth]

also auditor literally can do that but better

for half of the roles you're listing

[light harbor]

witch and poisoner arent informed who those are (unless its literally pm game)

so

[livid moth]

witch literally is

but ok

magician somehow telling the evils whose what

(they whisper and both get lynched)

fun fact Starspawn/Auditor can do the exact same thing

[short wedge]

WAIT YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 2 CARDS AT A TIME?

[light harbor]

Witch cant witch twice crazy

[short wedge]

WHAT IS THIS?

This should be a jester rework

[light harbor]

Magician the Neutral pariah

[short wedge]

not a damn NP

Even if it was a jester buff I would want it faster

like damn

[livid moth]

so in what situation

are you KILLING someone

and not witching the tp that night

[light harbor]

erm well to be fair

it is ns

[livid moth]

or waiting until you can witch them

[light harbor]

but I made it np lol

[livid moth]

you literally haven't shown anything that makes this role good enough to be in the bucket it's in

[short wedge]

This would suck as NS anyway

I would only accept this as a jester buff

[light harbor]

well the ns version is much better

[short wedge]

and even then it should be faster and not get as much info

[light harbor]

where in this screams jester to you

lmao

[short wedge]

The fact that this should neither be added to any other role nor added itself into the game

Jester is the only role this would fit on

[light harbor]

I dont see this as jester though

[short wedge]

I dont really either

Im just saying this would not be able to fit into the game

unless it was added to jester since its so damn ridiculous

[light harbor]

I think it's fine

[short wedge]

maybe it could be its own NE

but what would the wincon be

[light harbor]

swap 3 players

because of how slow it is

imo I would rather give this the doomsayer board thingy

so you select 2 people to guess their alignment and swap

[light harbor]

I have though, I told you how it can swap evils with townies or even neutrals and townies and what benefits evils gain from being swapped (or shuffled)

my only issue with it is I made it too slow

[livid moth]

theres no benefit from half of the town roles

ti literally do nothing for evils

tt ti sucks for a reason

same with tt tp and the same goes for an evil with a tp ability

its useless

[light harbor]

define useless

[livid moth]

has 1 niche usecase

literally 1

why the fuck are there 9 lagspikes

[light harbor]

protecting isnt niche though

[light harbor]

join the lagspikes cult 😃

[livid moth]

no

[livid moth]

it is for evils

u literally have given me 1 use case

where it is used to bully an NK

[light harbor]

I have

why would it bully nk

oh nvm

[light harbor]

Literally a protector's job is to protect

[rocky willow]

so why would you give that to nk

[light harbor]

You don't need to, you have the option to drop your cards

[rocky willow]

so this is only useful for one-two scenarios

for swapping a tk

and a coven

or tk/tp to make the guy shoot the guy they were protecting

[light harbor]

swapping tk, nk, coven, tp

[rocky willow]

that fucks the Nk over

[light harbor]

worse case scenario you swap ti but again your still getting use out of it

oh I forgot about ts

well I mean

only like decent ones are retri and tav at their most powerful

[rocky willow]

only one TS is mildly useful

[light harbor]

2*

[rocky willow]

and thats if poisoner and or witch doesn’t spawn

i presume this is limited to how the other can normally perform it

[light harbor]

Oh on the topic of limited do you think I should give it the doomsayer thing to prevent it from taking years

cause it is slow

[rocky willow]

whar