Mayor Overhaul

[high star]

Mayor

Town (Power)
Attack: None
Defense: None

Reveal ( 1️⃣, ☀️ )

• During the day, Reveal yourself as the Mayor of the town.
• You will gain a charge of Enact.
• If a factional evil player is hung while you're revealed, you will gain a charge of Enact.

Enact ( 0️⃣, 🌙 )

• While Revealed, Retract the current Policy (If any) and choose a new Policy to Enact.
• There can only be 1 Policy active at a time.
• You cannot Enact the same Policy twice.
• All players will know which Policy is Enacted.
• If a good player is hung, the current policy is Retracted.
• If you die, the current policy Retracts after a day.

Policies

• Offensive - When a factional evil player is hung, players who voted innocent on them are Roleblocked.
• Defensive - [Removed atm]
• Inquisitive - When a factional evil player is hung, learn if a player of the same faction voted innocent.
• Supportive - When a factional evil player is hung, player who voted guilty on them are Accompanied for that night.

Attributes

• Illusioned or Framed/Enchanted/Reaped players will appear as the role they were framed as to Inquisitive.

Changelog:

9/23 Post is made
9/24 Defensive ("When a factional evil player is hung, players who voted guilty on them gains Basic Defense for that night.") is removed (might be a temp. fix)

Policy Alternatives

(Workshopped in #1287615242666508342)

@hexed hawk If i recall, you were interested in my JOAT mayor rework
here it is, just with a full post under its name now :D

[hexed hawk]

ah

[high star]

it basically is far more versatile than any other tpow
however, that comes at the price of being able to not afford to have mislynches

[high star]

anyways, any feedback would be appreciated

[narrow bridge]

what is inquisitive?

Illusioned or Framed/Enchanted/Reaped players will appear as the role they were framed as to Inquisitive.

oh

I see

must've skipped it

[high star]

my question
how do you skip a whole line 💀

[narrow bridge]

shush

[high star]

LOL

you can't VM me, I alerted last night!

[high star]

Finally one of my suggestions has a positive net upvote

smh

[high star]

wow, almost 1.5 hours in and someone hasn't come and torn this apart yet
i consider this a success on my standards

[high star]

Ngl I'm thinking abt how this works with trib

1. if a evil is hung then a town is hung while a policy is active, would the policy still activate?
2. if a town is hung then a evil is hung while a policy is active, would the policy still activate?
   hmm

[zinc pelican]

You cooked

[honest pine]

I mean everyone counts as a guilty during trib so if the policy is defensive everyone gets basic defence

Also i think It would not activate

since you still, guiltied an inno player

actually

[honest pine]

1 would not activate since tribunal revealed the roles of the players in order

but 2 would

[zinc pelican]

doesn't trib count as everyone guiltying? Since jest can haunt anyone

[raven mica]

holy mayor moment

[honest pine]

It does. I already said that

[zinc pelican]

does it looks like I know how to read?

[honest pine]

youre french

fair nuff

[zinc pelican]

Il n'est pas trop tard pour marcher dans un veteran :p

(It's not too late to walk into a vet :p)

[honest pine]

yeah i understood

french exam tommorow

locking in

[zinc pelican]

If ye need any help lemme know

[raven mica]

anyway as the Sigm a Mayor I approve of this rework

[honest pine]

As someone who consumes mayornaisse on the daily, i must agree

[steep sedge]

This seems fun to play, Harry. But Defensive is kinda just offensive but better. It's actually cracked.

The only "counter" is like. Warlock, Ritualist. It gives you a free day basically if people are on board doing their thing. In CTT a free day is a free kill.

Inquisitive can be a useful surprise attack but defensive is just huge

[glacial owl]

defensive is almost always a free night for town

unless town is splitting

[steep sedge]

It is, unless this is Pandora and Warlock/Baker gets to work.

But those are very specific situations

Defensive is cracked

[honest pine]

me when the warlock only gets innoed by townies:

[bronze compass]

offensive is too weak imo

[steep sedge]

Good. He's alive.

[zinc pelican]

Defensive -> Supportive are the best
Offensive / Inquisitive are kinda bad since you know if the policy is up

[drifting canyon]

defensive is a little too powerful

also some policies are just straight up useless if evils know its active

like parceval said

[near flax]

It also is kinda useless if Town is down

[drifting canyon]

yep

give it +1 vote when revealed

[covert radish]

Okay this is a very interesting idea

I think the policies themselves, I think there could be some more interesting ideas in there

Also ones to help with Mayor's survivability because that's a big issue

Also, was this at all inspired by secret hitler LUL

[steep sedge]

Hold up you're probably joking but, Secret Soul Collector could be actually goated.

After three Pandora policies have been enacted, be selected as the Deputy to unleash Death.

[covert radish]

omg LUL

[steep sedge]

It must be done

HARRY NEINED A TOWN-TOWN GOV GET HIM

[primal meadow]

"How overpowered do you want this to be, sir?"

Also

There is literally zero reason not to choose Defensive every time

I'm sorry

[steep sedge]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030929148484530256/1140908912900575272/togif.gif

[tawdry igloo]

me choosing defensive every time:

[steep sedge]

armor!

[cobalt forge]

me like this

[primal meadow]

I don't

This is
Very very very busted

Imagine fighting against someone who can not only reveal, but also make it so you cant fucking kill every time an evil is hanged

This is the ultimate snowballling Tpow

Which isn't a good thing

It just makes fighting against it frustrating

And stupid

[cobalt forge]

yeah the only thing i dont like is the defensive one

but other than that its pretty good. better than the current plain 3 votes mayor

[primal meadow]

None of the other buffs are great either

First of all, Offensive is useless

Evils will know its in play and thus know to guilty

(Plus innoing late game for stuff like this is quite stupid anyway and will get you killed next after the lynch flips evil)

Inquisitive is bad for the same reason; evils wont inno

And supportive is just straight bad

[tawdry igloo]

I like the concept of buffs but I want a hide or change mechanic to mayor, to add to its design other than just being a knight with an extra vote

[high star]

• You cannot Enact the same Policy twice.
  Also, all policies are a WIP and I'm still waiting on gaining more feedback
  I agree defensive is too busted, and there's defo room for fixing it
  @primal meadow @steep sedge you two seem to be quite vocal about defensive being cracked and offensive being useless, if you have ideas to replace it it'd be great

[steep sedge]

Offensive isn't useless, it's just not nearly as good as Defensive.

I can think about it

[high star]

temp seems to certainly think so
but defensive atm seem like mass protc for free

[high star]

you can't kill the first time an evil is hanged, as all policies are one time use per game
and a mislynch wastes the policy

btw

it's in the post

smh

[tawdry igloo]

Ah alr that makes sense maybe I can try and help with the policies idk though

oh btw and I'm done tweening warlock js saying but yeah I like the concept of this till even if its wip

[high star]

oh yeah absolutely

atm i just wanna fix Defensive

bc Defensive outshines everything

[tawdry igloo]

I think the other 3 are just fine maybe delete it? or rework it in general

[high star]

yeah, this originally had 3 policies anyways

hol up

• Defensive is removed

until someone can think of a good overhaul for defense

[primal meadow]

Ngl

I still prefer Hiatus Mayor

[high star]

that also works, the reason this is a overhaul is
well, mystic explained it nicely

hol up let me find it

[high star]

#1287615242666508342 message
this and scroll slightly down

hiatus mayor is defo a good rework
this is a overhaul, kinda stripping mayor down to its basics then making it into a JOAT mayor
there's also technically not a reason to make it reveal anymore, but i think someone (tuba and curt, looking at you) would wanna keep the reveal cutscene

[high star]

yeah

this

[high star]

well, arguably
this doesn't have the defense clause and can be protected just like any other tpow now

[covert radish]

I also mean uh

[high star]

that kinda goes for every tpow that reveals

[covert radish]

Yeah but, Mayor is the only one that can die instantly for using it

Consider the conjurer can just wait

Prosecutor at least ends the day

[high star]

marsh

[high star]

also this

[covert radish]

Trib still happens

[high star]

"there's also technically not a reason to make it reveal anymore, but i think someone (tuba and curt, looking at you) would wanna keep the reveal cutscene"

[covert radish]

Yeah I didn’t say remove the cutscene

[high star]

if really needed ig we could squeeze the cutscene into "The mayor has enacted a policy!"

part

[covert radish]

Myeeaaaa but

I dunno about that

The thing is as well

You have to be reeeaaaally careful, with what other utilities you give tpows

[dark crown]

this is cool as hell

[covert radish]

Looking at both Marsh and Jailor, they have the highest winrates by a landslide

I don't think just being a way to keep power in town's hands is a bad thing

And also,

[dark crown]

love the concept

[covert radish]

Every single one of these is a snowball tool

[dark crown]

but i feel like the policies would have to be balanced super well

[covert radish]

Hence why I said this

[high star]

yeah, policies are a WIP

as mentioned

[covert radish]

Mhm

So I assume you are intending on changing them then?

[high star]

I want better policies, ye

[dark crown]

defensive was already removed

because it was op as hell

evils lose a member AND cant get a kill

[high star]

I still dislike the rest of them

and i wrote the darn thing

💀

[dark crown]

i feel like no one would go for offensive

cause evils can easily just not vote innocent

[high star]

I think there's a lot of creativity to be used for the policies

[dark crown]

actually thats just prosecutor

[covert radish]

Lemme have a think

[dark crown]

it pretty much forces everyone who doesnt wanna get rbd to guilty

or abstain ig

[high star]

YAY
Pls cook

gotta convince temp somehow

B)

[covert radish]

To be honest idk if temp will be convinced

[high star]

:P

hiatus mayor is a good concept, so I'm not too sad
but I personally prefer this one more

[covert radish]

In my head

I think it would be cool if, something like Hiatus was one of the policies

But you could choose a different one if you thought you could survive

[high star]

tbh i think having a policy that corresponds to each non-tpow subalign is a good concept

[covert radish]

Building on that, it would be cool if town didn't know what policy was in play, so you could cause some tomfoolery

[high star]

so I think i'll stick with it

[covert radish]

I can defo see that temp won't like this tho tbf

Idk, it's a lot of energy to be a hater though

[high star]

I'm currently thing on this

hmm

it could be

[dark crown]

i feel like if they're hidden, they'd have to be toned down a metric ton

policies are active for the entire day, correct?

[covert radish]

They need to be anyway tbf

Well in my head

When you reveal, you choose one of (two or three) policies to enact

That is the one that's in effect.

And it's either active for a day or so, or until it would activate

[steep sedge]

I wake up at 6am just to be a hater, and then I go to sleep

[high star]

LOL

[steep sedge]

Also, Nuggy I am working on something for you

[high star]

true

[steep sedge]

That aside, still thinking

[covert radish]

😮

omgosh

[steep sedge]

(It may take multiple days but it is some silliness.)

[high star]

I do wanna think of some policies atm

[tawdry igloo]

I have a few ideas in mind one sec

[high star]

ooh

[tawdry igloo]

any ideas from you though

[high star]

atm I'm thinking offensive shouldn't be additional kp for town

[covert radish]

Definitely not

[high star]

but i don't like the current one

so something that hinders evils

we could try communication disruption but old soci proved that that's a terrible idea

rb is the best way but rng rb is uhhh well
arse

[covert radish]

aahhhhhhhhhhh okayy so

Here's the thing

This is a cool concept but, the more I'm looking at it

How does this relate to the core concept of Mayor

[high star]

this is a overhaul, it kinda shifts the core concept of the mayor itself to be JOAT

[high star]

as mystic explained here

[tawdry igloo]

this is way too town sided but here

Policies
Embolden- Once a evil has fallen the town will be Emboldened granting astral visits for all who guiltied.

Evacuation - If a Town Power has fallen or a evil day ability occurs call a Evacuation causing all abilities to fail for that night.

Revenue Boost- If you've killed 2-3 evils the townies will be granted basic defense + Astral visits for night.

[high star]

the core concept of mayor is outdated

from tos1

[covert radish]

I'd argue absolutely not

[tawdry igloo]

this is so bad but you can take pieces of it apart

[high star]

to which comment

lol

[covert radish]

^

[high star]

I personally disagree with you

[covert radish]

Mayor being an open leader of the town, keeping majority in their hands and choosing the direction of the town is a completely fine area which it still occupies

Prosecutor tries to do the same thing, to a mixed degree, Monarch can do it from safety and secrecy with survivability, but has to trust other players to get that value

Jailor and Marsh are their own things entirely

[high star]

which atm is just every revealed tpow
Heck, marsh even handles regaining maj better than mayor

imo

[covert radish]

I just gave examples of how their niches are different

Pros is an issue yes

But that's prosecutor's problems for stepping on Mayor's boundary

And, prosecutor takes the game completely into its own hands

[high star]

which I'm not going to argue over, because you're absolutely right

but if you want it to be more of a leader, just tweak the policies

[covert radish]

But, assuming I agreed with you, that Mayor desperately needed an overhaul

How does this achieve it?

[high star]

this is JOAT

mayor

every other faction has a JOAT, this is town's

[covert radish]

Okay, so now Mayor is stepping into the niches of other players
And notably, there is no core concept with how the policies work with Mayor. They can all be literally any abilities

It's the job of all the other players in the match to do these things

Giving it to mayor, they are either too strong to the point where it outshines other townies, or it has to be weak to the point where it's meaningless

Which is what happened here

And that's also why it's difficult to come up with policy ideas that work

There's no framework

This is dressing on top of Mayor

They don't relate at all to the idea of revealing either, which is an ability mayor still has in this

[hexed hawk]

I mean

[covert radish]

If you wanted to give policies as a wholly unique concept, you could start from there

[hexed hawk]

Three other roles have a hard reveal as an ability and one of them isn't even TPow

[covert radish]

But, Mayor having three votes comfortably keeps control in their hands until they are the only remaining player, effectively.

[hexed hawk]

The whole point is that reveal no longer carries a role's identity on its own
If you want Mayor to still reveal, it can, you just need something on top of it

[covert radish]

But putting something on top of it is just dressing

Which is exactly the issue

It leads to ideas with no rhythm or glue to work with

[hexed hawk]

Then all of the other revealing TPow are "dressing on top of a reveal" as well

[dark crown]

jailor isnt

mon isnt either

[hexed hawk]

Jailor isn't a revealing tpow

[dark crown]

marsh and pros are though lmao

[hexed hawk]

and neither is mon

[covert radish]

Prosecutor is the only example of that

Marshal gets an extra vote, therefore needs the reveal

And I agree, Prosecutor revealing is pretty pointless

And steps into mayor's niche

Again, that's a prosecutor problem

[hexed hawk]

I play too much vanilla

[covert radish]

Oh yeah

[hexed hawk]

I don't think it's Pros's problem

[covert radish]

Vanilla Pros is even worse

[dark crown]

vanilla pros is a nightmare

[hexed hawk]

Pros has a different problem in vanilla

Mayor's problem is that it reveals and kind of does nothing else with it

[covert radish]

I agree, and it's 100% the wrong direction to go

[dark crown]

actually im gonna go make a pros rework, brb in like 2 hours

[covert radish]

Don't even think about pros

vanilla pros*

[dark crown]

its so bad

[covert radish]

That's irrelevant here anyway

[hexed hawk]

anyway

[covert radish]

I think removing the dressing from pros and focusing it on being an anonymous role that keeps the power within itself is the way to go

[hexed hawk]

You can't anonymize Pros.

[covert radish]

Mayor keeps the power within itself, but as a public leader to the town

[dark crown]

the issue is that it has 0 power right now

[hexed hawk]

"I'm Prosecuting 9"

9 fucking dies

[covert radish]

No

I mean

Allow pros to be secret

[dark crown]

^

its like how current dep doesnt reveal

[covert radish]

Every tpow is confirmable and un-cc-able

Of course

[hexed hawk]

i mean, it wouldn't change the fact that Pros is kinda whack in BToS2

[stone knoll]

we did it town PM

[hexed hawk]

hi tuba

[stone knoll]

hello

[high star]

hello tuba

[stone knoll]

(im trolling bw)

[covert radish]

tubald

[high star]

LOL

[covert radish]

spotted

[high star]

(tubald sil wip)

[covert radish]

And I mean, yeah I don't disagree? Far far far less wack than vanilla but still

We have proven prosecutor is indeed a problem

[hexed hawk]

Pros isn't less whack here, it's differently whack here

[covert radish]

How does that relate to Mayor

[hexed hawk]

Yeah

[covert radish]

Why is that Mayor's fault

[high star]

the thing about JOATs in other factions is that it can do things that no other role is able to do in their faction, which is what I'm trying to figure out how to do here
instead of trying to reform this into the revealing aspect of mayor, shift the concept into JOAT instead
and just wack the current core concept

[covert radish]

Mayor can just reveal itself without consequences
-# Ignoring the consequences

[hexed hawk]

You said that Pros stepping into Mayor's niche is Prosecutor's problem, and I think it isn't

[covert radish]

Okay, so, what unique abilities can we give Mayor that no other town role can do?

The examples so far have been mass roleblock, mass defense

Which are both incredibly overpowered, and stronger versions of other roles' niches

[high star]

this is exactly why I'm currently trying to figure out, I'm brainstorming

[covert radish]

One of them is literally admirer's ability

[covert radish]

There's a reason nothing is coming from said storm though, this is my point

Because there is no core idea behind it

[high star]

I'm currently talking here

[covert radish]

Why does Mayor need to be a JOAT other than "to give it a different niche"

-# Which also, isn't a niche but that's besides the point

[high star]

why does mayor need to go into the revealing aspect
other than "that's the way it's been"

[covert radish]

Because, Mayor's core concept is that it reveals and gets extra votes. Those extra votes keep town majority as long as the mayor lives

[hexed hawk]

It seems as though giving Mayor a unique niche of some kind that other TPows didn't have was the first priority, and deciding what that niche would actually be came second
JOAT is simply the easiest way to make any role different, so that's probably how this happened

[covert radish]

It's the Core Concept

Giving Mayor a secondary JOAT ability is not helping the core concept in any way

[covert radish]

This is exactly it though

[dark crown]

i feel like it should do one and not the other

[high star]

this is essentially what happened

[covert radish]

The primary focus was "let's throw stuff at mayor and see what sticks"

Which,

Is exactly what I have done yes

But it's also not going to work most of the time

[dark crown]

if mayor was turned into the suggestion but lost its reveal status, wouldnt prosecutor become the "reveal tpow"?

[covert radish]

And I think it's because you can only stumble into a solid core concept with that

[hexed hawk]

Not really

[high star]

13 people politely disagree

[hexed hawk]

there isn't a single "reveal TPow"

because three of the TPows do that

[covert radish]

And about 200 politely disagreed that Teams was a bad idea

[dark crown]

but marshal has strings attached to it

[covert radish]

It's the invisible cracks in the idea

Is my point

[high star]

NOT politely

[covert radish]

You can't see them but there's no framework

[high star]

definitely NOT politely

[covert radish]

With no framework, the idea will inevitably collapse

[high star]

so what you're saying is that

[covert radish]

The concept needs a solid foundation

[high star]

JOATs have no framework, thus will collapse
PM = no framework???
baker = no framework???

[covert radish]

Actually kind of correct yes !

[high star]

arguably they've held up decently

[covert radish]

In baker's case

It only works because Baker is apoc's like, utility dump

PMer is, to be honest, just played like Consig

Who in niche situations can heal someone

[hexed hawk]

Baker was necessary because you have only 4 roles (or i guess 5 now) that need to carry the abilities of an entire faction

[covert radish]

And, Baker is played like Consig as well

[hexed hawk]

Baker is a symptom of Apoc just not being very good as a faction

[covert radish]

mhm

100% agree on that

Baker is trying its best to give Apoc a whole category's worth of utility

[dark crown]

because they werent made as a faction

[covert radish]

But yeah, typically JOATs are not great ideas. Even if they have like, a standout great ability, you could just make that the core concept

Look at investigator

[dark crown]

apocs used to originally only have one being able to exist

[covert radish]

Tresspassing is a great ability

[high star]

the hard part is that town is the majority of the roles in tos2 so it's hard to figure out how to avoid it clashing with a role's niche
Once it is solved, this is a viable rework
I think this is a very vaild even ground to settle things on

[covert radish]

Blood, literally the nichest thing

You can make Investigator just check for Tresspassing and it's still great

[hexed hawk]

Well there is a solution to that, but it's not one the devs like.

[covert radish]

Just that it can't randomly find killers anymore

[covert radish]

Honestly, JOATs are never stable foundations. That's what I've realised over time

[high star]

yes, that's why we're still here after all this time

[covert radish]

Like I said, any JOAT is mainly played for one ability that works well

And sometimes, they can have niche utilities

[hexed hawk]

in FM each ability of a JOAT is one charge usually, to prevent this

[covert radish]

ESPECIALLY in town's case though, making a JOAT actually hurts role diveristy

[high star]

FM?

[hexed hawk]

Forum Mafia

[covert radish]

But see, if you need to begin tacking on restrictions purely because there's a dominant playstyle

There's an issue

Now, I'm not claiming to know everything about those roles you mentioned, so there can be other reasons

But if that's the pure reason there is an issue.

[hexed hawk]

i mean

I'm no stranger to "X role works in FM but not in ToS"

I believe that about Jester, for example

[covert radish]

Yeah there's also the same thing of the amount of time games take, the overall ecosystem of the games and what roles are in play etc

[hexed hawk]

yeah, uh

Mayor, though.

[covert radish]

Yeah

Mayor's main issue is honestly and

[hexed hawk]

I disagree.

[covert radish]

Mayor has a fine niche

Tell me this

If prosecutor was just deleted

Would Mayor still have a problem

[hexed hawk]

Yes.

[covert radish]

With other roles stepping its boundaries

[hexed hawk]

Yep.

[covert radish]

Okay, go on

[hexed hawk]

Marshal still exists.

[covert radish]

Marshal is also incredibly volatile, it can't just reveal whenever it wants

And it gets an extra vote only during tribunal

It's far from being a stronghold to keep voting in town's favour

Yes, Marshal can turn around a bad situation for town, but so can every TPOW

Mayor simply existing can do that

It has an entirely unique core identity to Marshal

[high star]

I think marsh also steps in mayor

tbh

[covert radish]

Why?

I assume Mystic is gonna say why she thinks this ofc

But you can feel free to as well

[hexed hawk]

Mayor can't really be carried by the reveal because:

A: The other revealing TPows (in vanilla, which is what I'm more familiar with) are nearly always better than Mayor, since they both reveal and provide an extra kill while Mayor just controls the existing trial. In BToS2, Prosecutor is in its S1 form, which was just a worse version of Mayor (and that doesn't help matters either)

B: The advantage of being able to use its 3 votes longer than Marshal and Prosecutor doesn't work when Mayor's longevity is crippled and games are lightning fast.

[covert radish]

Keep in mind, we're pretending Prosecutor doesn't exist here

Because I'm trying to prove that, if you take Prosecutor out of the equation there is no problem

[hexed hawk]

Marshal still just

outclasses Mayor

[covert radish]

Marshal has an extra vote and can cause two lynches in one day

[hexed hawk]

Yes

[covert radish]

Which is a great ability, and it's very strong

Because it brings more utility to town

[hexed hawk]

Marshal controls four trials and kills an extra 2 people in 2 days
Mayor controls however many trials it can survive for, which usually isn't that many.

[covert radish]

It can also easily backfire, because it doesn't have the voting power to hold up its own tribunal should it happen too late

[covert radish]

So, the issue is that Mayor can't survive that long?

Because killing extra people is an entirely different utility to Mayor

It's a different niche, as they say

[hexed hawk]

The issue is that Mayor can't survive that long and that controlling a trial is worse than controlling a trial AND getting to kill an extra person on top of that.

Mayor's just outdated.

[covert radish]

But Marshal can't control the Trials as well as Mayor can

[high star]

Mayor has the defense clause which is just an artifact of tos1 imo

[covert radish]

It can lead to more kills

[hexed hawk]

Mayor was clearly designed around being the only role with an instant reveal button and falls to the wayside now that it isn't.

[covert radish]

See

[dark crown]

i feel like mayor just doesn't have as large of a presence as other tpow roles

[covert radish]

The thing is, Marshal is more powerful sure

If it plays well

And if Trials don't get hijacked

And if it uses Tribunal early enough to prevent that

[hexed hawk]

Judge can hijack a Mayor reveal too

[covert radish]

Great, Marshal is using its core concept well in order to get more kills.

[hexed hawk]

they get the same amount of votes

[dark crown]

but realistically have you ever seen a judge do that

marshal is far more common

[hexed hawk]

I haven't see a judge do anything because lolvanilla

but

[hexed hawk]

Because it gets two kills in the process

[covert radish]

So, Mayor is still in its own bubble where it fully controls its own votes, has enough to almost out-vote a full evil faction, and it can reveal whenever it wants without possibly costing the game

What's this about needing to fully overhaul it?

And more on that, how does this idea even change Mayor's niche in the first place?

[dark crown]

i think the main issue they have is that it's an endgame only role

[hexed hawk]

And then it dies immediately and Coven still has majority.

[covert radish]

It's giving Mayor an extra ability on top of its niche

[covert radish]

So you agree with me

[dark crown]

and if town does poorly enough, mayor's revealing does nothing

[covert radish]

The issue is survivability

[hexed hawk]

I don't actually like this idea.

[covert radish]

Like I said at the beginning

[dark crown]

survivability IS a huge issue

actually

[hexed hawk]

I never defended this version of Mayor

[covert radish]

Right

[dark crown]

i think that'd fix almost every issue current mayor has

[hexed hawk]

Except the part where games are still too fast for Mayor's advantages to shine

[covert radish]

So, you think it's more important to look into the core concept of Mayor itself

That's fine

[hexed hawk]

even if the Mayor doesn't die, it's still a worse Marshal.

[dark crown]

marshal backfiring can ruin a town, i've never seen a mayor do that

[high star]

which is why hiatus mayor is a good concept in itself

[dark crown]

i once had a game where a marshal was pushed to revealing d2, killed 2 townies, then died the next day because town thought he was TT

[covert radish]

But anyways

Point was

[high star]

this kinda turned into the mayor discussion: the thread

LOL

[covert radish]

This doesn't follow Mayor's core idea or give it a new one

[dark crown]

this cant really happen to a mayor

[hexed hawk]

well yea

It just kills one townie

[dark crown]

worst that happens is you get courted

[hexed hawk]

or that

[high star]

There was one more idea we had which was the one that spiralled into this actually
the election varient

[hexed hawk]

it can still kill a single townie rather than 2 townies if it has a bad take

[dark crown]

but even that isnt that large a negative

[hexed hawk]

Marshal is stronger

which means if it fucks up

the consequences are greater

[dark crown]

marshal is only stronger right now because mayor has no survivability

[hexed hawk]

this doesn't make Mayor better because it can't fuck up as badly

[dark crown]

i'd say they'd be balanced if mayor could live one night without needing some random BG

[covert radish]

Slapping a JOAT on top of Mayor's ability sadly isn't really the way to go imo

[dark crown]

(whats joat)

[covert radish]

Jack of all Trades

Like Potion Master

[dark crown]

oh okay

[covert radish]

Or Baker

[dark crown]

oh got it

[covert radish]

Basically anything that has an assortment of loosely / not at all connected abilities it can use

[dark crown]

i feel like baker is a really weird role

[covert radish]

In terms of abilities
A jack of all trades, master of none is pretty bad.
A jack of all trades, master of one, tends to lead to the quesiton of, well why don't you make that the core ability then

Because that one "mastered" ability is all the role will be used for

[dark crown]

the first one would be something like amnesiac?

[covert radish]

Pmer being basically just a Consig, for example

[hexed hawk]

And I say it wouldn't because games are so fast anyway that Mayor wouldn't be better.
Mayor is only better than Marshal if it survives for a long enough time that its control over the trials outweighs Marshal's two extra kills. Games simply don't last long enough for this to happen, so Mayor is still outclassed even without the defence bullshit.

[covert radish]

Amne I wouldn't call it a JOAT

[dark crown]

(its just bad)

[covert radish]

🙃

[dark crown]

i dont think there's anything inheriently bad with a tpow being mainly useful in an endgame situation

[covert radish]

For this reason I like Wave's or Temp's mayors

Both of which give it just a little bit more survivability

Because I don't think mayor needs to be a "WOAH LIVE FOR THE WHOLE GAME" ability to work

[hexed hawk]

In a vacuum, no

but mayor doesn't exist in a vacuum

it exists in a game where other roles exist, have the hard reveal that Mayor does, and are useful outside of just the endgame

[dark crown]

isnt it up to the player then to survive to an endgame so they can take advantage of their ability

wait no

that doesnt respond at all to that

[dark crown]

pros is just worse mayor imo cause it always loses when fastvoting
marshal is the only other comperable role, and marshal has a huge risk attached

where being forced to reveal could make town lose on the spot

[hexed hawk]

It could also make town win on the spot

[dark crown]

but if marshal is forced to reveal, it likely wont do that

[hexed hawk]

The lows are low, yes, but the highs and even the mids are much higher than Mayor gets.

[dark crown]

mayor can reveal without any risk

marshal cant

[covert radish]

See but I don't think this is a problem with the core concept of Mayor

I think it's the execution of both mayor and the other Tpows

[hexed hawk]

I mean

yes

Mayor was fine in ToS1

[dark crown]

mayor was also a TS in tos1

[hexed hawk]

Because it was designed around being the only hard reveal role

[dark crown]

not tpow

[covert radish]

I didn't wanna rely on this point earlier, because it was said for pros too but
Mayor being outmatched by Marshal is also a marsh problem.

Marsh and Jailor are near tied for the best winrates by far

Marsh + Jailor = too strong
Pros = too weak + stepping on a pre-existing niche

[primal meadow]

I know what an overhaul is

[dark crown]

Marsh & Jailor
Mayor & Monarch
Pros

thats the general power level of TPows

[covert radish]

mhm !

[primal meadow]

This is valid

[dark crown]

the solution isnt to buff everything to marsh and jailor level

[covert radish]

Well, I'll admit Mayor is slipping down

But that's on an execution level methinks

[dark crown]

its to bring stuff down to mayor and monarch level imo

[covert radish]

The core concept of mayor is fine

[primal meadow]

Yes

[hexed hawk]

Agreed!

I also think

[covert radish]

Exactly

[hexed hawk]

Maybe Mayor shouldn't be there if other hard reveals are gonna exist...

[covert radish]

Mayor and Marshal can get away with both existing

If Marshal is less powerful

Mayor and current btos Pros can't get away with both existing

[dark crown]

and pros just needs to be fixed

[covert radish]

I think Pros is the one that needs the rework

[dark crown]

yeah pros is worthless

i tried to make a pros rework but i just made reverse monarch so i scrapped it

[covert radish]

Mayor does need a rework of some description too

Like I say, I like Wave's and Temp's reworks

[drifting canyon]

I don't think getting rid of pros will solve mayors problems

[covert radish]

My entire point was that Mayor does not need some overhaul that changes its core identity though

[covert radish]

Never said that

[drifting canyon]

Mayor should and always should've been the role with less risk to it entirely but a flatter reward

[covert radish]

I did say Pros should change

[drifting canyon]

you stated it earlier in a sense

[covert radish]

100%

[covert radish]

I think you're misunderstanding

[drifting canyon]

Pros and mayor are more fun when one has higher risk reward

and the other has lower risk and a flatter reward

[covert radish]

Honestly though

[drifting canyon]

current pros has basically 0 reward and like a 7 risk out of 10 so mayor just outclasses it

[covert radish]

If you look at it that way

[hexed hawk]

here

[covert radish]

I think Marshal does the way better job of being a spicier mayor

[drifting canyon]

but the thing is

Marshal has higher risks

[covert radish]

Valid but I didn't mean exactly that LUL

[hexed hawk]

Yes. That.

[drifting canyon]

if you fuck up a tribunal marshal is like one of the worst roles ever

Mayor doesn't have that problem

[hexed hawk]

If you fuck up anything it's really bad

[drifting canyon]

but Marshal has higher highs than Mayor

[covert radish]

Exactly what I think too though

I don't think we all disagree here

[drifting canyon]

the thing is at the avg skill level

[covert radish]

Mystic, do you think Mayor needs a full overhaul

[drifting canyon]

a marshal just provides more

[covert radish]

Like, entirely new core concept

[drifting canyon]

when a better player has Marshal rather than Mayor they do more

[hexed hawk]

Yep. Or delete it, but saying the D-word summons Satan

[drifting canyon]

because Marshal just has the higher rewards

[covert radish]

Yeeaaaa, I was thinking maybe I was mistaken but I suppose not

[drifting canyon]

Mayor does need an overhaul

its tos1 counterpart legit has no effect on the game here

[covert radish]

Like, change it so it's not a revealing role with 3 votes anymore?

[high star]

yeah, that

is

probs

a idea

[drifting canyon]

(that or slow the game down to a reasonable speed where Marshal and Pros don't have major advantages over it when they're free kills)

[covert radish]

Ah yeah I can't do this whole argument again

It's come full circle now

[drifting canyon]

I don't

[hexed hawk]

Mayor doesn't have to lose its reveal it just has to
Do something else

[drifting canyon]

it needs to do something else when revealed

[hexed hawk]

but losing its reveal is an option

[drifting canyon]

nah

[hexed hawk]

I would not be hard against that

[covert radish]

I think we're looking in the whole wrong direction honestly

[drifting canyon]

I think it needs to keep it's open identity

Mayor as a role is a role you expect to pop out and be like

[hexed hawk]

How so?

[drifting canyon]

"hey I'm the mayor!"

[covert radish]

Mystic, you should know all my points already

[drifting canyon]

I know them less since I just got here but I have a basic grasp of them

[covert radish]

I think Mayor can function as is right now, with a rework and with Pros getting reworked

[drifting canyon]

but is that the ideal outcome? I don't think so

[covert radish]

Mayor's not leagues from the ideal power level, it's just weak

And I think the core concept is already solid

It wants to be a simple role

As chilly said, flat power level

[drifting canyon]

id compare it to Vigi and Jailor

you want a (in general) weaker player to have Jailor rather than Vigi

because the error for messing up isn't that bad as compared to Vigi

[covert radish]

I think that's a weird example to use

[drifting canyon]

and then vigi is more rewarding for the space it occupies

[drifting canyon]

well it's like having a jailor but still being able to have a TPOW with Vigi

[covert radish]

Jailor has a lot more power, sure the reward for misuse isn't dying but you become a potato

Which is not ideal for the strongest TPOW

[drifting canyon]

being a confirmed potato

is a lot better than having 2 dead townies

[high star]

(Mayor discussion: the thread)

💀

[hexed hawk]

yep

[covert radish]

Every thread goes like this

[hexed hawk]

at least it's stuck to Mayor for the most part

[covert radish]

True

[drifting canyon]

I mean you're trying to overhaul the role so we're obviously just gonna discuss the role of Mayor

[high star]

I should tbh start posting daily discussion threads

that'll be a good idea

[hexed hawk]

You'd need to also gut Marshal.

[covert radish]

The last thread started talking about vision differences depending on biological sex

[drifting canyon]

honestly

if we didn't have Marshal in the game

[high star]

focus on a role for a day, then end with a rework that ppl can agree on

[drifting canyon]

pros and mayor wouldn't be as problematic

[hexed hawk]

Well I play vanilla, so Pros would still outclass Mayor

[drifting canyon]

because Pros would literally die if they fucked up compared to Mayor

[hexed hawk]

since vanilla pros is a Marshal sidegrade

[covert radish]

Except vanilla Pros is

Goofy as hell

[drifting canyon]

vanilla pros is

so bad man

[hexed hawk]

A Marshal sidegrade.

With Hangman.

[drifting canyon]

I think it's the worst out of all the TT tpows now as well

[hexed hawk]

FUN.

[drifting canyon]

since it just becomes outted tt and sits there

[covert radish]

Marshal Sidegrade (derogatory)

[drifting canyon]

and pros was my favorite role

still is too

anyways

[hexed hawk]

but yea

[drifting canyon]

Mayor needs a change to what it does after revealing

in order to keep it from being reveal with all the extra sauces ontop

aka what this suggestion is

[covert radish]

This is 100% mayor with sauce on top

[hexed hawk]

Oh true

like I said, I never endorsed this Mayor

I just

[covert radish]

I mean, I'm obviosuly not a fan of changing the core identity of Mayor. But, if you can come up with a concept that actually works well I'll be honest about it

I'm not here to be a hater

[drifting canyon]

I mean I could try

[hexed hawk]

Mayor as is wants a slow game to even try compete with Prosecutor(V) or Marshal on average.

And that doesn't happen when either of those roles exist at all. Or all of the other things ratcheting up the pace of the game.

[covert radish]

Go for it yaya

[drifting canyon]

honestly

[covert radish]

To be fair

[drifting canyon]

I think old Socialite would be really cool with Mayor

[covert radish]

Slowing the game down is one of the big goals of BTOS

[drifting canyon]

but in a unique way where you add players to a chat at night

[covert radish]

Lots has been done in that regard

[hexed hawk]

And I don't think it's succeeded in that

Not yet, anyway

[covert radish]

Well

I actually disagree

The game is DEFINITELY more managable

Than vanilla

[hexed hawk]

The things you'd need to do

[drifting canyon]

if we get tabs to talk in multiple night chats evils will be fine in this regard

[covert radish]

But, I agree it's not all the way there

[dark crown]

vanilla pros and dep are a bit absurd

[hexed hawk]

nerf TK, nerf TPow, lower kill power of TP

nerf CK

[covert radish]

Mhm

Yea

[drifting canyon]

and cpow

[covert radish]

Those things are all on the radar

[hexed hawk]

Not that vanilla has made much progress in that regard

but BToS2 hasn't either
And NPs speed up the game pretty substantially

[covert radish]

It made as much progress as curt and tuba made while there honestly LUL

[drifting canyon]

I mean the pre s3 buff patch was

probably the best we ever had

[covert radish]

How much do you play BTOS out of interest

[hexed hawk]

Facts.

[hexed hawk]

Not a lot.

[covert radish]

Mkay

[hexed hawk]

i mostly play vanilla.

[dark crown]

im kinda sad about the state vanilla is in rn

[hexed hawk]

I am too

[dark crown]

it feels unplayable

[hexed hawk]

but I see that the big boy issues in vanilla aren't really addressed in BToS2, and power creep is overall higher.

[covert radish]

Oh yeah I haven't touched vanilla since BTOS came out

[dark crown]

there's nothing stopping 5 tpows from revealing

[hexed hawk]

There's a lot of buffs and not a lot of nerfs.

[covert radish]

That's not true

[hexed hawk]

Prosecutor is really the only one that hits the root issue.

[dark crown]

pretty sure pros rn is only the way it is due to a bug that happened when transfering it

[drifting canyon]

me and funk would literally make vanilla all any nightmares for those players

[covert radish]

LUL

[drifting canyon]

nope

[dark crown]

oh it was intentional?

[covert radish]

I'm not gonna act like I play tons of of BTOS though, I have a decent handful of matches but

[drifting canyon]

they intended for pros to be the way it was

[covert radish]

I mostly play BOTC now

[balmy cedar]

UninspiredUsername

• Wins: 309
• Losses: 353

[drifting canyon]

I asked if they'd ever set pros to it's current vanilla state

[dark crown]

i have a few games

[hexed hawk]

they didn't feel like transfering it to its vanilla counterpart when S2 dropped.

[covert radish]

LUL

[drifting canyon]

and they said maybe but never did it

[hexed hawk]

Honestly

understandable

[dark crown]

which is fair

[covert radish]

They made the intentional choice not to because it was a bad change

[hexed hawk]

Marshal sidegrade.

[drifting canyon]

but that was a marshal problem

[dark crown]

its literally just better marshal in tos2

[covert radish]

It wouldn't be that hard for them to adapt the vanilla version

[hexed hawk]

Oh I agree

[drifting canyon]

if Marshal never got added to vanilla pros would've never been a marshal sidegrade

[dark crown]

its marshal but you have direct control of your tribunal trials

[covert radish]

I'd still be iffy about Pros

[drifting canyon]

with more risk

[hexed hawk]

but a lot of people prefer marshal over vanilla pros for some reason

[dark crown]

oh fair

[covert radish]

At least, with Marshal it's not a 1f1 deleter

[dark crown]

but in btos2 it isnt

[drifting canyon]

because again

pros has more risk

[covert radish]

Vanilla pros only isn't because of hangman

[hexed hawk]

^

[covert radish]

Which is wacky balancing

[drifting canyon]

the fact you die instantly for being wrong

makes people not wanna play it

[covert radish]

But it... works?

[dark crown]

hangman is awful imo

[covert radish]

Yeah

It "works" though, for the time being

[dark crown]

if a vigi shoots a townie, its -2 town

[covert radish]

Do not rip hangman out of vanilla pros

[dark crown]

which completely screws town over

[hexed hawk]

let's just make 3 roles our absolute bitch - hangman

[covert radish]

At least Modded pros has no hangman

Or Deputy

[dark crown]

its only vigi

[covert radish]

It's just Vigi and, I hope that can go too at some point ngl

[hexed hawk]

it can but you'd have to hit it with the nerf gun

[dark crown]

if you reduce vigi's shot count to 2 and remove hangman i think it's fair

[covert radish]

I was against it in the past but I've come around to reworking vigi so it can be removed

[drifting canyon]

bring back shooting yourself

🔥

[covert radish]

Guilt was definitely better than hangman tbh

[drifting canyon]

shooting 50% of a coven team with no draw backs...

[dark crown]

"im dying vigi seer on me"

[drifting canyon]

yikes

[covert radish]

Oh yeah, hangman also at least happens at the end of the day in BTOS

[dark crown]

no if you shoot town you still lose all your shots

[covert radish]

But in general, the amount of deaths is way way way lower than vanilla

[hexed hawk]

I once played a BToS2 game where the hangman was just glitched and didn't happen at all

[drifting canyon]

so I can 1f1 and be a conf townie?

[dark crown]

ah

[drifting canyon]

surely killing 25% of the coven team and like 9% of mine is fair

[dark crown]

yeah thats an issue

that'd encourage a body-guard like meta

didn't think too hard about it

[hexed hawk]

Answer: One bullet.

[dark crown]

use it on yourself n1

[covert radish]

I tried a BG rework to remove the dying + counterattacking

I've fallen out of love with it since tho

[drifting canyon]

SURELY killing 25% of the coven team and being a confirmed townie (aka deputy) isn't problematic either?

[covert radish]

But I do think removing those from BG and overhauling it entirely is not a bad idea

[dark crown]

its just night deputy atp

[hexed hawk]

Deputy sucks because it;s a day kill

[dark crown]

and enfringes on its territory

[hexed hawk]

I mean

[drifting canyon]

deputy cannot function as a night role

[hexed hawk]

Deputy is its own can of worms

[drifting canyon]

it will either be top tier dog

or low tier god

no in-between

[covert radish]

Vigi does not make designing TKs easy

[dark crown]

the first rework in btos2 was awful 😭

[hexed hawk]

I mean at that rate you're just mad at the concept of Vigilante

[dark crown]

it did absolutely nothing

[drifting canyon]

I do dislike vigis concept a bit in this game

[covert radish]

Current btos Deputy is in a fine state imo, like it's acceptable where it is for the time being

[drifting canyon]

maybe that's just cause tos1 was a better game overall idk

[dark crown]

it feels a little undertuned

[hexed hawk]

current btos2 deputy makes me viscerally angry

[covert radish]

https://tenor.com/view/well-yes-tokyo-toni-zeus-tokyo-toni-red-carpet-interview-gif-9160985937715866183

[drifting canyon]

its weird how vigi went from feeling more fair in tos1 to feeling awfully overpowered in tos2

[dark crown]

i feel like that's more as a result of the playerbase getting better at the game

[covert radish]

I think it's symptomatic of there being more tk to compare it to

[hexed hawk]

Oh hey the topic drifted to TK

[dark crown]

oh and this

jailor vigi and vet were the only 3 tks

[drifting canyon]

the playerbase is like

[dark crown]

and vh but shut up

[covert radish]

And VH 🤓

[drifting canyon]

maybe 10% better at best

[covert radish]

LUL

[zinc pelican]

and vig was the only one that wasn't unique

[dark crown]

i was on that shit

[drifting canyon]

yeah but like

that'd make it feel more oppressive then

[covert radish]

Vet was also way stronger, because it was Unique

[dark crown]

and rb immune

[covert radish]

So it was just a strong ass claim

[dark crown]

WHY IS IT NOT RB IMMUNE

[drifting canyon]

oh yeah vet was fucking godly

[zinc pelican]

That was back when vet was fun

[covert radish]

I think being Unique was the main part

[zinc pelican]

now you get hard countered by poisoners

[covert radish]

It was low key a tpow

[zinc pelican]

:(

[hexed hawk]

I LOVE STEPPING ON THE FOURTH VETERAN MINE

[zinc pelican]

Guys hear me out

[covert radish]

People respected the Vet because it had great survivability

[zinc pelican]

turn mayor into TOS1 Vet

[covert radish]

surely

[hexed hawk]

Oh god.

[zinc pelican]

there fixed the role for y'all

[hexed hawk]

Anyways, uh

I tried to do a whole TK thing but I don’t think the roles were very great

[zinc pelican]

nothin' a bit of frontier justice can't fixe

salem (Texas)

[hexed hawk]

The main issue tho is that

[covert radish]

I wonder how much the psychology of the vet icon looking much wimpier in tos 2 plays into it

[hexed hawk]

Vigi is too strong to make other TKs work without bullying Neutrals

[zinc pelican]

vigi should be gutted

[dark crown]

average all any list:

[covert radish]

look at the glow-down ngl

[dark crown]

poor guy

[zinc pelican]

average veteran in the us moment

[hexed hawk]

Oh no there’s also Deputy Marshal and Prosecutor

[covert radish]

You can feel how fragile the badge is in tos 2, it's like on a hinge

[dark crown]

what if vigi was just a tpow
no but then that interfere's with jailor's niche

hm

[hexed hawk]

Yeah

Vigi as a TPow is just worse Jailor

So no

[dark crown]

yeah

it'd kinda need an overhaul

[zinc pelican]

vigi should either lose a bullet, be forced to reload, or have to preemptively aim at someone to shoot them

[hexed hawk]

If you want to see what I’ve attempted with TK I can link it

[dark crown]

to remove hangman

[hexed hawk]

Since this is off topic

[covert radish]

yes to middle no to last

[dark crown]

reloading seems fair

[hexed hawk]

#1285997333024346123 message

[zinc pelican]

or it could be a delayed kill

[hexed hawk]

Anyway

Mayor

[zinc pelican]

explain

[hexed hawk]

Not here.

[zinc pelican]

;(

[hexed hawk]

The point was to get the TK talk out of this here Mayor thread

[drifting canyon]

Mayor mayor mayor

[covert radish]

I mean I don't moderate people staying on topic

Conversations should be allowed to flow

[drifting canyon]

can I just say mayors tos 1 icon is cooler

[covert radish]

[dark crown]

mayor's tos2 icon feels more mysterious

[zinc pelican]

eh nah

[zinc pelican]

tos1 one was better

[covert radish]

To be 100% honest here

I actually like the TOS 2 icon a bit more

It has more character imo

[zinc pelican]

Eh IDK

pretty hard to not notice that the guy with a big ass mustache and a monocle is the mayor

whereas big hat mayor can hid anywhere by removing their hat

[covert radish]

kill da mayor

[drifting canyon]

literally

and women don't have beards!!

or moustaches

[covert radish]

u know which role icon had the biggest glow up tho

Spy 100% imo

[dark crown]

vamp also did

[covert radish]

Spy's new icon is so unnecessarily cool

[dark crown]

the tos2 icon is so much better

[covert radish]

Yeaa it's cool

[primal meadow]

Are you talking about the vanilla icon

[covert radish]

Spy still the biggest glow up imo

Yes

[zinc pelican]

Inspector gadget aaah look

[primal meadow]

Eh

[dark crown]

fair

[covert radish]

TOS 1 vs TOS 2 icons

[primal meadow]

I liked the bug

[dark crown]

og vamp was cool

[covert radish]

Temp

[dark crown]

no design wise

not gameplay

[primal meadow]

No I mean

The bug icon

The radio

[dark crown]

oh

[primal meadow]

I liked that icon

[covert radish]

But

but but but

Spy is so cooooool

[dark crown]

he's SO cool

[zinc pelican]

yeah well now spy upgrade his stuff and uses a cup against a wall

[primal meadow]

He just looks like some guy in a top hat

[covert radish]

Looks like a cool ass spy

[primal meadow]

The colors are cool, but that’s about it

[dark crown]

he's lowkey a cia agent

[covert radish]

I think it's just because its so like, mysterious and spy became this like full on character

I really like it

Although the ability icon

Uhh I think it looks weird

[dark crown]

he looks so devious

[nocturne flame]

what is he doing

[covert radish]

I guess it's a funny way to explain how spy finds stuff out

Oooooo

[zinc pelican]

peak of the technology : a cup against a wall

[covert radish]

Cup up to door to hear better through it ig

[zinc pelican]

don't tell me how it allows them to detect hexes and stuff

[dark crown]

he hears the hexes

[primal meadow]

What happened to his hat

[zinc pelican]

is the hex master legally obligated to announce who they are hexing?

[tawdry igloo]

Lookout: Yk you can just use a telescope right? 😭

[primal meadow]

It looks like a traffic cone

[covert radish]

I don't like the ability icon as much

[primal meadow]

Which reminds me of how dirty HM’s silhouette was done

[steep sedge]

Someone else made a CTT version that has the funny lines, I made that rec a while ago. I could really fix this up with my new skills but it does look perfect in-game

[covert radish]

I thouhgt you meant the icon

[primal meadow]

The icon slaps

[covert radish]

phew

[primal meadow]

The silhouette does not

[covert radish]

Aah

[zinc pelican]

why is sex master a dwarf

[dark crown]

what

[tawdry igloo]

hes giving twink

[covert radish]

tos 1 HM skin was cool

[zinc pelican]

they look puntable

[dark crown]

what does this mean

[tawdry igloo]

its a meme

[tawdry igloo]

I liked the one silo that copied it but still made it stand out

[primal meadow]

Hex Master fell off

[primal meadow]

Link?

[covert radish]

Oh ma god

[tawdry igloo]

This cutie

[covert radish]

That's so well madeeeee

[zinc pelican]

that's a bloody PVZ2 plant

[primal meadow]

Big ass hat

[primal meadow]

You’re right

[tawdry igloo]

LOL

[primal meadow]

I don’t remember which one though

It just looks familiar

[primal meadow]

Literally the same person

Mushroom HM is real

[covert radish]

Uhh Night Cap

[tawdry igloo]

We love mush hex

lol

[covert radish]

I only remember it because of BFN

[steep sedge]

The revenge of mushroom man

[zinc pelican]

would've been funny to make their hat a lilypad

[primal meadow]

Town when Hex Master places down their Doom Shroom:

[zinc pelican]

Salem (Japan)

I wonder how many "Salem" town there is

WOW A LOT

welp found where vet is from

[mental kernel]

What if defensive just grants RB/control immunity

Or is that included with being accompanied in supportive

[high star]

atm policies are a wip