Remove Evil last wills, words and deathnotes

[white folio]

This applies for all evils

The Changes

• No last wills will be shown
• no last words phase like the recruits,
• and no deathnotes for any evil (even if nk)

why? evils can still out eachother very easily, and I don’t think it should happen at all

When Hidden Roles is enabled, last wills will be enabled, last words is whatever

Enchanter/Medusa interactions

• Alterating someone to evil will hide their will
• Alterating someone into good and outing someone with it is now considered foul play
  Note: Outing a player using a vigilante will or something to say someone is something for a push isnt, but going "lol 6 is arso" should be
• Petrified Players cannot use their last words phase
  "You feel your body turning to stone before you could utter your last words"
  Credit to Cattingslan for this flavor

only complaint i can ever forsee is it being “too boring” for the casual playerbase

[pine bridge]

If you need deathnotes with brainrot in them to keep you from dying of boredom, please read a book.

[hexed forge]

What if the day lynch is petrified

[pine bridge]

Stoned people don't have wills

[hexed forge]

"they had last words, they were town"

[steady ice]

^

[white folio]

ill add that clause

[pine bridge]

oh

[white folio]

mobile sucks lemme get on pc

[steady ice]

Honestly i think it should be more of a modifier, but that's just my opinion

[hexed forge]

"You feel your body turning to stone before you could utter your last words"

[white folio]

im using that as flavor

tidied it and edited it to include medusa

[karmic patio]

this should be disabled in hidden roles btw

but other than that i like it

[white folio]

forgot about hidden roles

its like used in 2 lists tops

[karmic patio]

either that or all last wills are disabled in hidden roles

[forest agate]

No.

[karmic patio]

[white folio]

bro likes being outed immune?

[forest agate]

honestly don't care

just play better if a will outs you

you can easily deny it

[white folio]

the dead pm with your role being outed isnt the best thing you can be counterplayed to

[hexed forge]

Me when I counter the PM's claim with "nuh uh"

[forest agate]

pm often lies in will

[karmic patio]

just play around the instant and anonymous revealing that your role is evil bro

skill issue on your part

[forest agate]

"1 is arso"

1 has revealed themselves as the Mayor!

[white folio]

“2is sk”

2’s role was Serial Killer

[karmic patio]

be 1
be arso

"1 is arso"

can't reveal because you're not mayor

gg

[forest agate]

nobody trusts a pm will unless there is evidence to it being true

[white folio]

new tos mechanic

[karmic patio]

arso mayor reveal

[white folio]

you can fake reveals but nothing ever comes of them

like bluffing slayer

in botc

[open steeple]

Also revealing who arso is will out the PMer quickly

[karmic patio]

Arso (and only arso) can reveal as Mayor

[open steeple]

Arso has no reason not to go "well X visited me n1 so he's PMer!"

[hexed forge]

Damn that's MAD

[open steeple]

Better to put sus on the arso than to out them with a death note

Regardless, death notes are fine gone IMO

[karmic patio]

I point at last wills

PM dies and outs arso, not much arso can do there

[forest agate]

deny it?

you can do that

[white folio]

yeah ok it still gets lots of attention your way

and its bad

the solution?

remove it

[forest agate]

no

also the stoned removes last words is fucking stupid

[forest agate]

like... why?

[open steeple]

These changes make the game much more competitive but it removes a lot of charm and flavor from the gamr

[hexed forge]

Because it confirms the hanged person is town, which goes against the point of medusa stoning them

[open steeple]

It's just lame

Removing features

[forest agate]

so saying i'm town before getting stoned proves i'm town?????

how does that work

stoned can just lie

[hexed forge]

Insane reading comprehension

[forest agate]

no, you're saying it confirms the stoned person as town

HOW

FUCKING EXPLAIN IT

[hexed forge]

The suggestion makes evils unable to use last words

[forest agate]

that too is stupid

all of this is just unneeded

[open steeple]

No Last Words phase is the worst of the trio

By far

[forest agate]

"I don't think evils should be able to out eachother" yes because you can totally prevent that

[white folio]

theres a reason or you can just cheese it

[minor bear]

i really hate the “foul play” clause in this

Its effectively calling a legitimate strategy gamethrowing because it kills an opposing faction without you also getting outed

Just nerf enchanter, dont limit it with gamethrow clauses

[white folio]

theres a reason why recs cant out their faction regardless of them being not aligned

[forest agate]

be coven

be put up on trial

know you're about to be hung

use defense time to out all evil people pm found

[open steeple]

Additionally, there's legitimate reason to out evils that harm your evil faction.

What should the PMer do? Keep it to the grave?

[minor bear]

Yeah but that’s usually on stand when they’re dying anyways

[open steeple]

And it also allows for mislynches

[white folio]

ideally not be able to out the neut scott free

[open steeple]

It's an important tool for evils to utilize

[forest agate]

you can in some cases

[open steeple]

Death notes are understandable

The other two aren't

[hexed forge]

Insane idea, what if you had to fake claim and push them to get them killed instead of using your handy anonymous notebook

[open steeple]

Crazier idea: what if you lied in your anonymous notebook?

[forest agate]

and what are you gonna do? remove defense phase for evil people?

[hexed forge]

You're throwing by claiming coven gg

[pine bridge]

Yes.

[forest agate]

that would be if you were outted coven

if you're outted coven that wouldn't be throwing

[minor bear]

This suggestion really should be added as a separate modifier without the foul play clause

because it’s obviously very controversial and shouldn’t always be in the base game

[pine bridge]

This isn't the base game

[minor bear]

Like base btos2

[white folio]

ok but if there isnt a foul play clause then people can just bypass it with certain roles

[open steeple]

There are additionally ways to circumvent these. You don't need a last word or last will to out evils that Coven knows the identities of

[white folio]

theres a reason

[forest agate]

also this brings up that controversial ban for the guy who won by claiming arso, if it makes you win is it throwing?

[open steeple]

It just makes it more annoying

[white folio]

claiming non town roles is usually throwing

atleast non NE

[open steeple]

The Death Note one is the only one I agree with

[white folio]

or pirate

[minor bear]

Yeah but punishing people for using obvious game mechanics in their favor is a horrible way of treating your game

[forest agate]

but even that is removed for coven

[open steeple]

Oh yeah lmao

[forest agate]

so that would really only effect nk

[grim wadi]

This suggestion just makes sense

[forest agate]

no it doesn't

[grim wadi]

I see no downsides to this

[minor bear]

Outing people as recruit is one thing
Alterating people (which doesn’t even cause you to die) is another. It shouldn’t be punished.

[open steeple]

It's just not fun

[karmic patio]

claiming pirate should be throwing

[white folio]

casual playerbase is heated at this suggestion

[white folio]

i agree. i dont make the rules though

[open steeple]

It's "more competitive" but it's not fun

[karmic patio]

because i don't like pirates

[grim wadi]

What makes it bad

[forest agate]

when do we tell lagspikes that speaking spirits exists

[minor bear]

lol

[verbal forge]

@minor bear has leveled up! (6 ➜ 7)

[forest agate]

removing last words phase sucks majorly

and last wills

[grim wadi]

I disagree, being outed as neutral is completely unfun

Especially in stuff like last wills and death notes

[hexed forge]

About the foul play rule, there's a difference between:

• "I'm enchanter forging this guy, 5 is arso"
• "Vigilante N2: Shooting 5"
  If the second one was foul play, I feel like it would cause issues

[white folio]

accounting for every little modifier isnt my interest

i just want to enjoy playing the game man

[forest agate]

when do we also tell lagspikes that the modifer "No Last Wills" exists

[open steeple]

There are ways to circumnavigate the last will and last words mechanic

[forest agate]

mfw no last wills

play a custom with that

if you want this so bad

[open steeple]

If you know you're getting hung, there's nothing stopping you from spilling everything

Instantly

It's just unnecessary

[grim wadi]

Just because there are ways to get around a mechanic doesn't mean it's not a bad mechanic

[hexed forge]

I suggested no last wills in the modifier competition and I think it just got added as an extra cuz it's so easy to code

[forest agate]

neither should be foul play

[open steeple]

It still is unfun

[minor bear]

I understand that but either way it will cause people to unknowingly get banned and cause even more loopholes

Adding a clause for ONE singular scenario that doesn’t even cause you to get outed is dumb

[grim wadi]

How

And what

[hexed forge]

Foul play rules are annoying

[open steeple]

It's an easily bypass able restriction that just restricts aspects of the game

[forest agate]

yet you like this suggestion

[white folio]

second one shouldnt ever

[open steeple]

Unrelated to the thing it's trying to restrict

[white folio]

faking a legit will isnt the same as going "lol this guy arso lmao"

[grim wadi]

"Easily bypassable" as in you have to throw away your chance of survival to out someone

That doesn't sound easily bypassable to me

[forest agate]

accidentally rits wrong guy

outs all of pms evil reveals

[grim wadi]

Also restriction doesn't mean something is less fun

[grim wadi]

I don't like how ritualist works anyway so

Plus it's getting a rework

[forest agate]

yes but it shouldn't matter

[white folio]

added a clarification in the post

[grim wadi]

Also this solution is still just better than that, without this addition all the evils are getting outed

[hexed forge]

I love roles that say "hello guys I am X the Coven member"!!!! /s

[grim wadi]

Sure, it means there are certain niche scenarios where evils are 100% outed and so they out everyone they can, but most of the time that isn't happening

[forest agate]

if you want to out the fact that you have an enchanter that is most times a bad play

[leaden zinc]

i find it funny how coven had the "no death notes" rule applied when bers can easily do the same thing when combined with a baker

[white folio]

bers dumb

[open steeple]

Your chances of surviving?

Town ain't innoing you if you're found by the Sheriff claim and are stuck in a "1f1"

[forest agate]

yeah bers should get the coven treatment when it comes to death notes

[grim wadi]

So like the same as it was before

???

This just makes it so evils are outed less

In less scenarios, I mean, cause most evils aren't just gonna sit there and take a lynch. No, they're gonna push back and try not to get lynched

[forest agate]

(being generous by underestimating) 90% of the player base would hate it if this was added to base BToS2

[open steeple]

My point is that this doesn't actually help in preventing Neutrals from being found, since it's easy to out them when you're already outed.

These are unnecessary restrictions that kill some aspects of the fun.

[grim wadi]

"Fun" as in completely unrelated to the core gameplay?

We can shave that off

[minor bear]

Exactly, It really should just be a modifier for Coven Ranked or something (again, without the foul play clause because that’s stupid)

[open steeple]

Death notes I agree with

But it literally only affects neutrals

[forest agate]

nk having death notes is ehh

[austere cedar]

bad

[forest agate]

I wouldn't care if death notes for NK were removed or kept

[open steeple]

The gameplay relating to discussion and Deception?

[austere cedar]

if you want to hang another evil, push them

[open steeple]

Which includes being able to speak when you're about to be hung

[grim wadi]

The 5 seconds of talking about nothing, you mean

Right before you lose

[minor bear]

yeah don’t remove death notes from NKs unless in compliance, they’re already pretty weak as is

[forest agate]

while I think that, claiming death notes as stupid is inherently stupid

[forest agate]

yeah, remove factional death notes. (non compliance) NK death notes are alright

[austere cedar]

literally remove Death Notes forever

you cannot physically balance Death Notes

[grim wadi]

The gameplay revolves around trying to NOT get hung. You've already lost if you got hung as an evil, there's no benefit to the gameplay in letting an evil become a martyr

[austere cedar]

they will always be unfair

[forest agate]

because we all now that if one coven member has been hung the whole coven can never win and is banished

[karmic patio]

death notes are now forced to be pre-determined ASCII arts instead of customisable notes

[austere cedar]

why should evils be able to silently communicate with the Town

[karmic patio]

[grim wadi]

You know that's not what I was talking about.

[austere cedar]

Death Notes might even be a liability sometimes

[forest agate]

You've already lost if you got hung as an evil

[grim wadi]

As in lost THE GOAL of not getting hung

[austere cedar]

they should just

begone

[karmic patio]

if you're a soloist evil and you get hanged because coven decided to put you in their anonymous free win note

[grim wadi]

Read a sentence before and you'd figure that out

[forest agate]

jester is evil

[karmic patio]

you've lost the game

[forest agate]

Jester Silhouette

[karmic patio]

[grim wadi]

Ok ur just trolling at this point

[austere cedar]

when are they not

[minor bear]

[forest agate]

you're claiming that being hung makes you lose the game

[forest agate]

I never am trolling

like legitimately

I never am

[minor bear]

just wondering

okay explain that pls

[grim wadi]

I see this as beneficial to nearly all gamemodes

[forest agate]

it may seem like I am but I never am. I am almost always dead serious or obviously joking

and jester is infact evil

[grim wadi]

Fun shouldn't be relegated just to ranked

[austere cedar]

no

[minor bear]

I personally think that it makes a bunch of gamemodes more boring

[austere cedar]

they are literally unfair in TRUE ALL ANY

[grim wadi]

How?

[minor bear]

uhh fair point lol

[forest agate]

you're playing TAA and expecting fairness?

what game have you been playing

[white folio]

yeah this doesnt mean 2 shits in most modes

not that i care, i want em gone

[austere cedar]

good question

[minor bear]

because it limits a lot of strategies that you can pull off as an evil

[austere cedar]

what game has True All Any

[grim wadi]

Like outing evils right before you die?

Because if so that's the point, this is MEANT to be limiting

[forest agate]

that is a valid strat

if it helps you

[austere cedar]

no, because funny "crazy? I was crazy once-"

[leaden zinc]

why do last words even exist lmao

[grim wadi]

Legacy addition I think

[forest agate]

why would they not exist???

[leaden zinc]

you're already being hung it doesn't matter what you say

[minor bear]

Well I mean that DOES make PM and a lot of other roles pretty useless without the right team

[austere cedar]

probably because

lore

I am 100% sure that's why

[leaden zinc]

lore balancing, burn fangun at the stake

[grim wadi]

PM isnt bad because you can't out evils publicly; but what else do you mean?

[austere cedar]

why me

[leaden zinc]

HE SAID THE WORDS

[forest agate]

it's so you can tell funny jokes and stuff or out evils

[austere cedar]

uhh you can like

push the evils?

[forest agate]

like who actually has a problem with last words??

[austere cedar]

i know it's an unpopular strategy but you should try it!

[grim wadi]

PM can be very useful with finding stuff like hidden vigilantes or tpows, or jesters or neutrals

[austere cedar]

you are an evil

[forest agate]

and no fangun, you don't count

[minor bear]

mfw Arsonist/Plaguebearer knows that I revealed them

[austere cedar]

you want town to believe you

[forest agate]

you're not a person

[austere cedar]

"Investigator - N1 - 4 trespassing"

[minor bear]

I really think it should just be limited to Competitive modes only

This idea is so stupid and messy for other modes

[austere cedar]

they don't KNOW you revealed them all they know is that you visited them

[grim wadi]

How

[white folio]

its only messy for select modifiers

[austere cedar]

for all the Arsonist knows you probably protected them

[minor bear]

actually maybe that is a fair point

[grim wadi]

There's like, no core gameplay related to evil last words and last wills

90% of the time they don't affect the game anyway

[forest agate]

this should be at most a competitive only or custom only modifier

[grim wadi]

It's just a problem with the 10% chance it does

[forest agate]

ignoring the foul play rule that shit sucks

[minor bear]

exactly

[austere cedar]

your name is literally "purpletransshark"

you're not a person you are literally a clone

[forest agate]

that was me mimicking clover

[white folio]

mf when i cant use enchanter to bypass outing people as evil

[forest agate]

truth

[minor bear]

mf when I get banned for using a valid strategy that doesn’t out me

[forest agate]

mfw i have bad takes (i'm lagspike)

[austere cedar]

obviously they don't fuckin mean "I'm sheriff this guy is sus" they mean literally "this guy is shroud"

[forest agate]

mf when I get banned for using a valid strategy that doesn’t out me

[white folio]

(i even clarified it)

[minor bear]

I know
But that’s a poor play, not freaking gamethrowing

[austere cedar]

outing recruits as Coven isn't gamethrowing

that's not what foul play means

[white folio]

(still foul play)

[minor bear]

It outs you as Evil also

[forest agate]

they're arguing with eachother

[minor bear]

Altering doesn’t

[forest agate]

outing recs isn't always foul play

[grim wadi]

Since we're arguing so much over the edge case of enchanter's Alterate, I'm assuming the rest of the suggestion is pretty solid?

[austere cedar]

foul play is literally just being toxic

[white folio]

depends on who you ask

[austere cedar]

I kinda forgot we were arguing about Enchanter tbh

[minor bear]

I still don’t like it but the foul play is probably the best thing we can remove without just scrapping this idea entirely

[forest agate]

even tho we should

[austere cedar]

yes when you push them with a valid claim

[white folio]

ok?

[forest agate]

you don't always have to

[austere cedar]

just

play normally

fake claiming to out other evils is playing normally

[forest agate]

you don't always need a valid claim to out rec

[white folio]

yep

[minor bear]

I don’t think you understand that everyone doesn’t play at their best all the time

Someone will always make a mistake or slightly poorer move

[austere cedar]

okay good

[forest agate]

Death

rec death moment

[minor bear]

Banning them for that is dumb and is what caused ToL to decline

[forest agate]

?

[grim wadi]

ToL?

[minor bear]

Throne of lies

[forest agate]

throne of lie

s

[grim wadi]

Cool

[austere cedar]

you are proving my point

[forest agate]

how so

[austere cedar]

play normally

[forest agate]

most times you need a valid fake claim to out rec but not always

it's in very rare cases

but still

[whole idol]

This is just a side effect of how there’s multiple and neutral factions in tos

[grim wadi]

https://tenor.com/view/dono-wall-gif-24048347

[whole idol]

I agree though that, it sucks that players are able to just make someone else lose the game when they die

[hexed forge]

-# Proceeds to plug BOTC

[whole idol]

For no good reason other than that they can

[forest agate]

agreed

[hexed forge]

Clearly we must pull a TIS

[whole idol]

Onto the sponsor of todays video blood on the clock whee

[grim wadi]

To a certain extent

[minor bear]

millions must migrate to TiS instead

[forest agate]

blue on the cat

[austere cedar]

insert terrible marketing

[grim wadi]

To out an evil here means outing yourself, first of all

Removing death notes would mean there's that inherent risk involved

So most people simply wouldn't unless they've lost all hope

And with the way you can't see people's votes until the verdict has been decided, I don't think most people would lose themselves their chances of staying alive just to out one more evil

[cunning rapids]

bro

[austere cedar]

generally with no death notes, evils actually need to think and plan ahead how we are going to deal with this obstacle, being an opposing evil

[cunning rapids]

do you know what the "final words" phase is?

[austere cedar]

decide how they are going to get rid of this obstacle

[grim wadi]

Last words mean you get to out an evil without any consequences. You're dead anyway, might as well help your team

[minor bear]

this suggestion removes that for evils I think

[forest agate]

I just don't like this. I think it should be scrapped bc bro was not cooking

[cunning rapids]

oh I read that incorrectly

[white folio]

im not deleting this post because you told me to

i expected this tbh

[grim wadi]

Yeah

[forest agate]

and I didn't say you had to

[minor bear]

I still don’t like this idea

[white folio]

"i think it should be scrapped" is the 1:1 of you should delete it

[hexed forge]

Delete your post, I disagree with your opinion, therefore your rights for free speech should be revoked

[austere cedar]

are we going to push them during the day? are we going to kill them during the night? are we going to convince the Town to kill them during the night?

[grim wadi]

The death note part seems to be universally agreed on, the last words is a bit more controversial

[white folio]

this post solely exists because of that

[forest agate]

not really, it can also mean rework the post

to make it better

[white folio]

there is flat out nothing i can do to change this post other than defeat the whole point of it

[austere cedar]

Last Words are 100% lore balancing

I will stand by that

[white folio]

unless i want to go all out dictatorship and add more rules under it

[forest agate]

who the hell has a problem with last words other than you and lagspikes?

I genuinely want to know

[grim wadi]

I agree

[white folio]

9 other people

apparently

[grim wadi]

Nothing would be lost by removing them

[white folio]

well other than me

[austere cedar]

uhhh everyone who has been fucked over by them

I'm sorry that we hate toxicity-

[forest agate]

outing an evil isn't toxicity

[white folio]

im just fucking sick and tired of rolling NK, being attacked early and being outed within minutes

[minor bear]

I mean it sucks but implementing something like this would lead to so many weird scenarios and loopholes that it’s honestly best not to

[grim wadi]

Ikr?

[austere cedar]

if you are the last of your team it 100% is

[forest agate]

and they out you by fake claiming I bet

so this is useless

[white folio]

not really

[austere cedar]

no

they out you by using the unfair advantage they gain from death notes and last words

[white folio]

they dont push until its a dead coven member in their last words / notes

or an apoc death note

[forest agate]

coven doesn't have death notes

[white folio]

better yet

another NK

[austere cedar]

they still have last wills

[forest agate]

if another NK outs an nk with death note that is alright because that could backfire

[austere cedar]

aren't there 2 Coven roles that already counter NKs

[forest agate]

most last wills from coven aren't real

[austere cedar]

no, 3

[forest agate]

🤯

[grim wadi]

What? Loopholes for outing evils? Like being able to talk in a discussion based game? You're always going to be able to out an evil by outing yourself, but the last words are problematic because you're already getting outed, and so it only makes sense to out everyone else you can. This suggestion removes that, making evil outing a double edged sword that most people already refuse to touch.

[white folio]

yeah we call em conj, hex and rit

or necro if they're lucky

[forest agate]

that's 3

[austere cedar]

so suddenly it's all about chance

[grim wadi]

WITCH

[forest agate]

town isn't gonna trust a coven will

[austere cedar]

oh yeah and Witch

[white folio]

oh yeah witch turning the werewolf into coven's bitch

[grim wadi]

Nice phrasing

[austere cedar]

they trust a coven death note

why would it be any different

[forest agate]

WHICH COVEN DOESN'T FUCKIN GHAVE

[austere cedar]

vanilla

[forest agate]

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BTOS2

[austere cedar]

did you know that most BToS2 players have experienced vanilla

ever heard of meta

[severe latch]

but sometimes they do is the problem, and while it is possible to defend yourself saying "its a coven will" it feels awful to get lynched because a dead cov wrote it in their will

[austere cedar]

currently you are fighting for lazy evil plays

[forest agate]

1 is arso

1's role was Sheriff

[cunning rapids]

me

because people legit just use them to out people

[forest agate]

I know and I don't care

[austere cedar]

if only it specifically stated in the post that this is foul play

[cunning rapids]

then leave the post

you legit dont care about the entire point of it lmao

[forest agate]

can I not debate with people?

[austere cedar]

what even is there to defend about last words

[forest agate]

i'm talking about how most coven wills are fake

[cunning rapids]

theres no point in debating if you have nothing to offer

[austere cedar]

fake claims? yeah they tend to do that

[severe latch]

yeah coven can lie, and if town believe it they are stupid, but when you are NK and coven just outs you in will and people believe the cov will, it feels awful

Another issue with this is that theres not really any reason not to out them, it removes a threat to your team

[austere cedar]

if only there WASN'T a huge gap at the bottom of their will which leads to "8 is arso :)"

[forest agate]

if only 8 was arso

[austere cedar]

"Their role was Potion Master."

[cunning rapids]

i love how you just dismiss the entire point because "oh they can lie"

[grim wadi]

"The problem wasn't THAT bad, this means the solution is!"

[forest agate]

because who tf is gonna trust a coven will

[austere cedar]

Town

[severe latch]

if coven puts your name in will and you arent hard-confirmed, you will probably get lynched, real or not

[grim wadi]

You'd be surprised

[cunning rapids]

^

like deadass

if you aren't provable or its clearly just some made up bs you're getting hanged

[austere cedar]

even other evils will believe Coven wills

[forest agate]

even if town believes coven and coven is telling the truth I don't care

[white folio]

poor neuts

[austere cedar]

me fighting against my own kind

[white folio]

self hate 😔

[forest agate]

just move to next game

[austere cedar]

what

[hexed forge]

Ignore all problems with the game
Bullshit interaction? Just go next

[forest agate]

it's not bullshit

PM/Baker is used to OUT other evils

[white folio]

💀

[austere cedar]

if only those exact utility roles were made to fake claim

[white folio]

if only disposing of neuts wasnt free

😔

[cunning rapids]

LOL

okay this is just bait

[forest agate]

it's not

I never bait

[austere cedar]

Oh, boo-hoo!

[forest agate]

"person believes thing I don't? must be bait"

[hexed forge]

Bait used to be believable

[austere cedar]

Let me play a sad song on the world's smallest violin.

[white folio]

you are hard dying on something that is dumb and is unfun

[forest agate]

yeah and this isn't bait

[forest agate]

last wills and last words are nice to have

and removing them would make the game wors

e

[austere cedar]

yes last wills are nice to have

for Town

yes last words are nice to have

for Town

[forest agate]

I can rest easy knowing this shit will never be added to BToS2

[austere cedar]

what is the counterplay when I push Witch as Jackal and they just say "well get 8 I witched them they're Jackal"

[hexed forge]

Just go next game

[cunning rapids]

you have the worst takes ever

unironically

[grim wadi]

Obviously you're supposed to
Well you should probably
The best solution here is
Hm

[sterile lynx]

that is objectively not what happened

not to bring up an old conversation, but we did not ban for bad play

[gentle birch]

how would this work lore wise

[white folio]

why would they leave a note at the scene of the crime

and uh they cant write

[gentle birch]

last words

[minor bear]

oh, mb
I don’t really know the full story; I just assumed that’s what happened

[sterile lynx]

no biggie

[simple oxide]

this is okay i guess idk but i dont like the foul play part

[crimson ginkgo]

Arso, pb and coven are crying rn

[flint temple]

Removing death notes (or making it so that they can’t be changed and only the preset shows) I’m a fan of

But I don’t see a reason why we remove wills or last words when evils can… you know, lie

Evils outing each other can happen

But you know what else can

Evils lying

To get town mislynched

I lie all the time to get town mislynched

I don’t see a reason why others can’t

Tbh

If you don’t want Coven to be able to out NK

Just make it so that they can’t find NK as easily

There are less janky solutions than this

[open steeple]

W

[leaden zinc]

don't 90% of these issues come from chaos modes anyways

in balanced modes it's usually always faction v faction

sometimes with np but you'd never want to out that anyways

[austere cedar]

why would it not be foul play

it contradicts getting rid of the meta

[austere cedar]

but then again evils can just 'lie' in their death notes too

it's not about how easy it is for Coven to find evils, it's about how they can out them for free

with 0 risk involved

99% of the time a Potion Master will not be lying in their last words

or any investigative evil role

and Town knows that it's true that those evils can learn this information

this even goes for Dreamweaver

this is the first ever argument that makes Dreamweaver seem like a powerful role

[grim wadi]

^^This

Also, its pretty easy to find neutrals if you attack them, they don't die, and nobody claims to protect them.

[white folio]

pariah half solve that issue though

its still dumb that evils can go as they’re dying “lol 6 sk”

[tired mesa]

Mayhaps make this a modifier that's only used in modes with nks

Like, TT evil wills are useful

[white folio]

yeah thats probably a better solution