#Admirer Overhaul 1.1 - Safeguarding TS (Temporary)

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

clear pasture
#

The latter is silent, roleblocks the evils, doesn’t reveal who the Tpow is, can’t be courted, and can be done far earlier

#
  • you get a THIRD kill on top of that
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

No it doesn’t

#

It still renders Jailor OP

#

“It’s a Tpow” doesn’t excuse a powerhouse role

#

Tpow roles aren’t meant to be “can do everything single-handedly”

#

They still need support to function

#

Not Jailor though

#

Jailor can solo without any support

#

It’s bullshit

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

In every one of my Jailor games

#

Recent, at least

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

I’ve exed three evils by N4

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

And blocked plenty of kills while at it

clear pasture
#

Why should one person arbitrarily be given a third of the towns killpower

#

How the fuck is that good game design

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

How the fuck is giving someone a Vigi Tab Crus hybrid

#

A good design

clear pasture
#

But you see

#

Coven has no way to force a “mistake”

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Jailors who play well physically deny Coven from winning

#

It doesn’t matter what the fuck they do

#

I hate roles like that

#

An entire faction shouldn’t lose because one player is cracked at the game

#

Roles should have inherent counterplay

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

You know what the “counterplay” to Jailor is

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Either snipe them early before N2

#

Or

#

Hope they mess up

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

That’s literally it

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Dude

#

Stop throwing strawmen at me

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

You know what I’m saying is true

#

Coven has no fucking way to deal with a good Jailor

#

Without a random snipe

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Before Jailor confirmation allows for three confirmed town and/or half of the Coven dead?

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Jailor gets a shit ton of info using its roleblock

#

It’s Tav but better

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Do you play Tf2

#

Jailor is the fucking Wrangler shield

#

From Tf2

lofty plaza
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

That sounds fun

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

I do play Spy but even I can’t fucking stand those things

#

It’s stupid

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Just like Jailor

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Your thought process is the mistake here, I think.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

See

gusty gust
#

You should speak in "best case scenarios".

Because they happen, and happening at all in some cases is literally criminal...

clear pasture
#

I agree with moiler

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Doomsayer

clear pasture
#

But for a different reason

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

@lofty plaza let’s say there was a role that killed all evil roles on N3

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Will saying that “it’s useless before then” be a good argument?

#

Would pointing out how it oftentimes dies before then be a good argument for its balance?

#

Of course not

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

But that’s what you’re doing with Jailor

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

You can’t outplay a role with that much info and disruption potential

gusty gust
lofty plaza
clear pasture
lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

I’m using my own sample size

#

And it’s about that amount

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

I’m a good Jailor

#

But the fact that a good Jailor can be this stupidly good

#

Is what makes it problematic

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

This doesn’t destroy its core identity

#

Fyi

lofty plaza
gusty gust
#

Congratulations, you learned hangman is shit

#

Let's get rid of it and reduce vigi bullets to compensate

clear pasture
#

Heavy swinging is not a good thing

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

I literally said “remove the rolestop and roleblock”

#

And that’s what this rework does

#

It only triggers under specific situations

#

Instead of existing by default

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

There is a reason why Vigi is the only role with hangman. Every time Tube fixes another TK, hangman would either make it significantly worse or destroy it.

lofty plaza
gusty gust
#

Vigi will probably not have hangman if it gets changed.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

There is a place for that, it's called the Xbox 360.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

I only look at the overall performance of a role and its intent

gusty gust
#

Crusader is still toxic in base game, you can play that if you want bad roles.

clear pasture
#

When reworking, I try to keep its intent while addressing its balance and execution

#

But if I can’t do that in a healthy way (like with Psy)

#

I just overhaul

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
clear pasture
#

Intent is identity

#

Pretty much

#

They’re interchangeable

lofty plaza
final patio
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Psychic needed a new identity

#

Because a rng TI

#

Is bad to the core

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
gusty gust
#

Crusader's identity is actually literally the same. It's a TP that doesn't want to go on the same player as other TP/Townies. The thing about Crusader is that it just lost the swing and random kill power

clear pasture
#

Crus does want to go on Tplos

#

Because they confirms the TP

#

Lmao

gusty gust
#

?

#

What?

clear pasture
#

If someone claims TP and says they were UOed visiting the Tpow you were on

final patio
#

Oh

clear pasture
#

You semiconfirm them

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

I see what you mean

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Not really, once one person says UO, everyone else can follow.

final patio
#

But anyone can fake UO

clear pasture
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

That’s not true

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

old crusader was shit and now it's not. Nothing to be upset about.

clear pasture
#

Sure you can prevent BG Trick and Trap from proccing

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

But the confirmation is worth it

final patio
#

I think Trapper, Crusader, Medusa and Ambusher were all initially made to be TP/LO counters but they fucked it with the execution on every one

clear pasture
final patio
#

Trapper was supposed to not work with TP/LO I think

clear pasture
#

If you want some actually good TPLO counters

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

The CTS has some

final patio
#

Not counter though it’s true

clear pasture
final patio
#

Also Starspawn and Auditor counter it

clear pasture
#

And doesn’t counter tplo

twin gust
clear pasture
#

It just exists

lofty plaza
clear pasture
lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Lmao

final patio
#

Auditor’s initial suggestion was just that it roleblocked and stole one charge and that was it

What a time

twin gust
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Shroud doesn’t counter tplo

twin gust
#

It counters tps

clear pasture
#

It just kills the outed TP

#

Which is something any other role can do already

#

It’s just a fancy way of doing so

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

You didn’t

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

It's time for Temporary's post of the day

#

We move

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Toxic. But way less toxic than other things so we kinda just let him cook for too long

clear pasture
#

Pesky bloke

final patio
#

Vet is honestly not good tbh

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

???

clear pasture
final patio
#

I don’t think it’s fine balance wise

clear pasture
#

But Vet is so fucked in its execution

final patio
#

But yeah

#

Vet is fucked

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Veteran would be easy to fix for me if Vigi had less bullets.

clear pasture
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

That’s not what it needs.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Wildling needs actionable info

final patio
#

Veteran was only good in tos 1 because it was a unique role, and you were basically confirmed if you claimed it

clear pasture
#

Not just more of it

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

And it was rb immune

final patio
#

The thing is info is not that strong for the evil team

lofty plaza
final patio
#

Any abilities to mess with town are infinitely more useful

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Which is why evil info roles need to get bucket loads of it to be any use

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

#1264608443378171924

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

I'm not asking you to make a rework, I'm just telling you that "Make the tracker claim easier" won't function as a solid rework even if it would help

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

That would suck for a different reason

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Let other factions talk

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Tos1 old Spy sucked because it sucked the fun out of coordinating with your team

#

It’s alright

#

Spitballing is fine

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

It's a lot better now that it literally just has Investigator's percept

clear pasture
#

In Tos2 vanilla it sucks

#

In here

#

It’s alright

#

Pretty good I’d say

gusty gust
#

I am also here.

clear pasture
#

Though still a bit niche overall

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Did you never pick up on that

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Well now you have

#

Also

#

You could hard confirm escorts and investigators if you see their visits don’t line up with mafia visits

#

And vice versa for catching out consorts Hypnos and consigs

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

You could tell when mafia were faking rbed or bmed

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
final patio
#

TOS 1 spy was nutty

#

In mafia modes it was at least at like, fake claimable?

#

God forbid it was mafia and coven though

#

That shit was impossible to fake

#

Global info in general is stupidly difficult to fake when there’s multiple of that role

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Mhm!

#

If you didn’t claim within the buckets it basically became a better sheriff

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

It would have fared better if all roles were unique

final patio
#

100%

plucky wadi
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
#

I havent played with Spy but now that I think about it yes MV and CV sucks

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
#

It seems cool in a way but then they tell you which player they visit

final patio
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

That exists

plucky wadi
final patio
#

Individuality

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
#

Its him dropping his phone on his foot

final patio
#

Yeah I just meant I’m sorry it happened not I’m sorry for doing it 😂

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

Oh

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Really?

#

I think conjurer is genuinely the best new role

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

I think Conj is ALMOST fine

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

The thing is

#

That one thing it does is good

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Conjurer can guarantee a kill on a player who is causing issues

plucky wadi
#

And it provides counterplay

final patio
#

That’s powerful

plucky wadi
#

But its a bit too strong

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

And it also encourages fake claiming from townies

plucky wadi
final patio
#

To bait

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Which is awesome imo!

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

Thats fair too

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
final patio
#

Then, it’s fair to say, at least in terms of nuking the sheriff you might have been outplayed honestly

clear pasture
#

For those who dislike one trick wonders

#

Conj isn’t only that

#

It’s also an optimal bookholder

final patio
#

If town baited you into a bad kill that’s them doing well

clear pasture
#

It brings that to the table too

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Yea honestly

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
final patio
#

I like actual socials coming into play, Conjurer is that

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

final patio
#

Soul Collector can just be very strong and sudden

plucky wadi
#

The only thing Im iffy about Conj is Conj getting too easy of a daykill idk (but how do you make the daykill weaker like its just kill one person in the day thats near impossible to make weaker)

final patio
#

There’s no tells when it’s in play

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
final patio
#

I like Temp’s Hex Master rework

plucky wadi
#

LOL

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

Temp eating well

final patio
#

Where anyone hexed gets UO on other hexed players

clear pasture
final patio
lofty plaza
clear pasture
plucky wadi
clear pasture
#

ATM though, with secret killers off

#

Rupture is just strictly worse Conjure

plucky wadi
#

Mhm

final patio
#

There is the thing of possibly testing secret killers but

#

Idk if it will happen

clear pasture
#

@final patio have you talked with Tuba about the secret killers testing

final patio
#

It was on the table but it’s been forgotten about

#

Haven’t discussed it recently

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
bright fjordBOT
#

@plucky wadi has leveled up! (18 ➜ 19)

levelup.png
plucky wadi
#

It feels super good when as Monarch you just scumread well, knight someone based off that and save the game

clear pasture
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Unless it can target Apoc

#

It just turns into this essentially

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
gusty gust
#

It doesn't solve the SC problem at all

gusty gust
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

gusty gust
#

Not in ApocTT

#

You haven't played it but you would get it I think

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

I fixed the Hm jumpscare

gusty gust
#

Soul Collector's problem is that when Berserker dies you are fucked

clear pasture
#

Idk how to fix the SC jumpscare since SC has more issues than just that

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

lofty plaza
clear pasture
plucky wadi
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

Lol

#

Arso wants to hide but doesnt have enough to help it hide

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

plucky wadi
#

SC has little utility and its whole thing ends up being the nuke

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

It’s in a fine position

#

It just suffers because the game isn’t designed for it to flourish

plucky wadi
#

Ok tbf

clear pasture
#

It’s in a bad ecosystem

plucky wadi
#

I havent played enough Arso

lofty plaza
plucky wadi
#

NKs in general

plucky wadi
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

No roles would

lofty plaza
clear pasture
#

Has this become the new role balancing thread

lofty plaza
#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

#

One message removed from a suspended account.

clear pasture
#

Really

#

I appreciate feedback of all kinds

#

And it’s always nice to hear a fresh perspective

gusty gust
#

Deputy cannot kill him, obviously PM/RIT is cringe

final patio
#

Based on the stats

#

Arso is genuinely still the best NK by far

#

The old stats showing Shroud to be around the same level did turn out wrong

#

With a bigger sample size Arso’s winrate went up and Shroud’s went down

gusty gust
#

yeah, I mean

#

You can kill The Jackal, and everyone else in one fell swoop, he's alright

lethal copper
#

So this can also mess with warlock?

clear pasture
plucky wadi
#
  • Players Safe from Protective abilities will bypass protections.
  • Players Safe from Deception abilities will not be fooled by deceptive effects.
#

Never forget what they took from us

steady lance
#

Revival is crazy

steady lance
#

so there's an actual reason for counterplay

dark delta
#

This threads revived?

plucky wadi
#

Ok true for maybe Tracker and LO

#

And then nerf Seer

dark delta
#

It was already added 😭

plucky wadi
#

Not everything was

dark delta
#

It wasn’t?