Serial Killer Rework

[whole grove]

omg they stole from a different SDG cancel tuba now

[noble vector]

When did tol even release

[cold plover]

idk
but we can steal from it it's dead

[pallid portal]

fang gu is not the same

[noble vector]

Stuff from botc so far that I can remember

Coven Leader Morphing
Deputy
Snitch
Individuality
Speaking Spirits

[pliant bloom]

when they stop having good concepts

🤷‍♂️

[cold plover]

fair

we have unseen in curt's vamp rework

[pliant bloom]

this is it yeah

[cold plover]

now we steal possessor

[patent rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1131616766045474876/1270080026737639454/image0.gif?ex=66b30e73&is=66b1bcf3&hm=8d36c008122dd226f3c6f8e5e1f3b7cdee611446875da73c06e54bb842b3e821&

[whole grove]

Town of Salem shall become the ultimate mix of all SDGs

[cold plover]

well

btos2 will

eventually

[noble vector]

Tbf all mafia SDGs kinda copy each other

They all have the same roots and mostly same limitations for making roles

[dense frost]

The only thing that worries me with this rework is that when a shroud possesses a person and spams racial slurs, it's going to get a lot of people falsely banned.

[noble vector]

We have a good report system to deal with this stuff

And things that happen in modded go through our report system so

They will be dealt with and, likely perma banned on the spot if they try anything like that :D

[dire pagoda]

wouldn't reports on the possessed player just be applied to the shroud?

[whole grove]

The worst issue is the fact that people go "X why did you say racial slurs u suck you're on the list" (X was possessed by Y)

[dire pagoda]

then the after game results show otherwise and it's all cleared up

[whole grove]

yea

Have something saying "this player was possessed/disguised as"

[winter escarp]

Maybe if the Disguised SK/Shroud dies, it'll reveal their actual identity?

X (Previously Y) was executed.

They were the Serial Killer

[whole grove]

Feels weird to do that just because of people saying bad things

[noble vector]

I have thought about something like this

To be fully honest I think it wouldn’t hurt to include

“It was a disguise! [x] was the original Serial Killer who faked their death.”

[winter escarp]

That is true, but it also removes some confusion from the game.

One could argue the confusion is fine, but since SK is out I think it's better if the Disguise mechanic is revealed

[noble vector]

Also this helps new players understand the mechanic

Yeah exactly

[winter escarp]

(SK out meaning the SK can't win anymore so who are you deceiving)

[delicate saddle]

voodoo master after silencing someone and watching them talk like nothing happened the next day

idk why i said dreamwea

[winter escarp]

That's a skill issue

[dire pagoda]

do people really prefer this going on sk that much?

[winter escarp]

SK needs a buff and it feels strangely okay thematically on a Serial Killer.

Shroud is fine as it is but the new attack mechanic is nice to have.

[fathom horizon]

yeah i like the new attack mechanic

much more silent

[winter escarp]

Surprised you don't like Voodoo Master that much considering how much you like silent killing.

[noble vector]

Tuba said it’s going on SK saur

I’m fine with it on SK atp

It needs a rework more than shroud

[dire pagoda]

I guess shroud could simply do with a buff to its current kit

[fathom horizon]

vm is a fucking travesty

[noble vector]

Yeahh probably

[winter escarp]

Can't wait for the win rates to come out and people going "Werewolf needs a buff ASAP!"

[noble vector]

It’s not a bad role

[fathom horizon]

i mean ww does

[fathom horizon]

its good yeah

i like shrobbles

[noble vector]

They let it track two people a game it’s basically forever in the same state LUL

[dire pagoda]

although I do still like the whole possessor attack ability

[fathom horizon]

lemme rework my shroud to remove its control and give it this attack thing

[quasi moss]

this is weird but I feel like it has potential

[pallid portal]

atp anything is better than bloodlust

[whole grove]

Might as well try something, BTOS2 has done that before (Deputy)

[cold plover]

tuba can you include sk in the title, since it is half sk now?

[pallid portal]

I guess I'll just change the whole thread

Serial Killer Rework

[noble vector]

Serial Killer Rework

[pallid portal]

i just removed it

lol

[cold plover]

isn't it part shroud

as well

[noble vector]

Uh

I think shroud is not getting changed now?

At least nothing solid for what to do with shroud so

[cold plover]

the semi control

[noble vector]

I meant

This is just for SK now

The other half is not confirmed coming to shroud so

It doesn’t need to be on this thread

[cold plover]

oh what happened

[noble vector]

I’m pretty sure the idea that the other half was going to be put onto shroud was only ever said by like other people in this thread

[clever halo]

I think one thing at a time. If this is for SK, let's worry about Shroud later.

[noble vector]

Exactly

[cold plover]

btw it is pinned twice

[woven schooner]

Me when my stupid joke about SK doing [CENSORED] ends up cancelling the shroud rework and forcing a SK rework

I would fucking do it again tho

[clever halo]

Im pretty sure Nuggy was going to ask for it being an SK thing anyway

[woven schooner]

Nuggy wants SK to be the shrimplest NK

[cold plover]

sk is cool 👍

bloodlust is not 👎

[winter escarp]

Will Shroud still get the semi-control thing?

[clever halo]

That is irrelevant to this post now

[fathom horizon]

hopefully

i like it

anyways

[clever halo]

But we will see

[noble vector]

I will eat an entire brick

[cold plover]

i want video proof

[woven schooner]

that's my IG name.. I must run

[alpine patio]

I cant say I really like this going to sk

I feel like all the nks do a pretty good job of not overlapping each others' gameplay

[teal peak]

they definitely avoid overlap, but SK is the weakest NK and Shroud is already liked by a lot of people (and getting rid of their shrouding mechanic seems like a bad idea.

[alpine patio]

sure but this change make both sk and shroud deception nks

[noble vector]

SK and WW both being primarily rampaging roles?

I don’t think they do

[alpine patio]

I feel like sk should be the consistent killing nk

[alpine patio]

sk is fast, ww is slow

arso is also slow

[noble vector]

It is with this rework, current SK is super inconsistent

[alpine patio]

shroud is fast

[alpine patio]

consistent killing

to be clear

I hate bloodlust

[teal peak]

bloodlust makes SK less consistent specially with how many TPs or defense roles there are

[noble vector]

That doesn’t clarify what you mean at all if you don’t actually mean as in it kills consistently

[alpine patio]

but I dont think this is the way to rework it

[teal peak]

SK is the least consistent actually, purely because of how surprisingly common defense is

[noble vector]

I’m assuming you’re coming from the angle this rework isnt a consistent killer?

[alpine patio]

okay, I think SK should be reworked into the nk that consistently gets kills

[noble vector]

This has consistent kills though

I’m confused

[alpine patio]

I liked the idea someone else mentioned of bleeding

[teal peak]

this does not get rid of that at all

[noble vector]

Oh you want specifically bleeding

I mean that could be added to this easily if it was too weak

[teal peak]

it simply gives it the utility needed to match Shroud and WW's utility

[alpine patio]

yes, I dont think it's part of the role's identity for it to transition into a decption nk

[noble vector]

Deception is at the heart of the game I think it’s fine

Even Arso was a deception NK but, idk if it is now

It hid itself to invest in tos 1

[alpine patio]

ww's utility is a "do your best" sticker slapped on the back of it

[noble vector]

Yeah WW is defo the other weakest one

Tbh vanilla SK and WW are both fighting to be most mid

[alpine patio]

yeah but its kit isnt specifically made for deception is my point

[noble vector]

I mean, and?

It has no identity right now

Giving it one is no big deal

In my opinion

Plus this is modded

If it were vanilla I’d be more on the side that it shouldn’t be so complicyaed but

Modded it’s fine

[alpine patio]

so I think shroud should be the only nk with a specifically deception based toolkit is my point

[noble vector]

Hard disagree

I think this is just a situation where we disagree fundementally, which is fine

[teal peak]

yeah

[alpine patio]

I think I do like the idea of sk getting both bleed and disguise if it turns out bleed is too weak

[teal peak]

I do understand what you mean, but even then I think it fits, an SK is mad enough to steal their victims skin

[noble vector]

That would be a very easy buff if it was too weak 100%

[alpine patio]

im not talking about the lore balancing, disguise makes sense that way

[teal peak]

I thik too much about theming first :( regardless, SK needs something other than bloodlust

[alpine patio]

yeah no one would argue against that

[noble vector]

I dislike Bloodlust on SK thematically anyway

[pliant bloom]

shroud also has that

[noble vector]

Serial Killers are usually more crafty compared to, being rampaging brutes leaving a huge trail of destruction and evidence behind

[pliant bloom]

unless you're proposing a shroud nerf?

[pliant bloom]

arsos identity as of rn is anti tplo

and nuking but I'd say mainly anti tplo

[noble vector]

I'm guessing WW and Arso were supposed to be the other way around loool

[pliant bloom]

yep

[alpine patio]

To be clear this is what I had in my head when I said this

[alpine patio]

the proposed bleed buff I liked was something along the lines of if your target is saved by a tp, theyre inflicted with bleed and die unless visited by a town protect the next night

[pliant bloom]

so it just forces tp onto the target again

there's like no counterplay then

the sk is basically guaranteed a kill no matter what

[alpine patio]

towns had it too good for too long

[pliant bloom]

either their target bleeds to death or the tp saves the bleeding player

[alpine patio]

also arso definitely has that same kind of issue

[pliant bloom]

that's not good balance but sure

Arso is slow as fuck when they aren't visited

[shell sail]

I don’t feel like SK in particular fits this kind of rework it feels almost too complicated for the role.

Sk should be cut and dry and a very efficient killer imo

[alpine patio]

there is counterplay and that's to go on the same target again

[pliant bloom]

so then someone else can die

like an SK can just attack the tplo for FREE

there's no risk to it

[noble vector]

I'd agree for vanilla tbf but
It's modded, I don't think it matters

[alpine patio]

the risk is trickster, trapper and bodyguard

[pliant bloom]

the risk of hitting a target with TP on them is that you lose a kill

[pliant bloom]

so BG has to kill themselves

trapper is the slowest tp in the game

[shell sail]

Eh even still I feel like if you lean into deception then Shroud fits much better then you can let SK be the basic murder NK

[pliant bloom]

which means you can legit just avoid it

[alpine patio]

that's a bg issue as trickster and trapper dont have to kill themselves

[pliant bloom]

trapper isn't even suppose to go on TPLO unless they're confirming everyone

which means the SK is still getting value for making a bad play

[alpine patio]

it's tp lo for a reason

[pliant bloom]

it's like if werewolf auto redirected to the player with the most visitors when attacking someone

[shell sail]

Because that’s what shroud becomes following this and I don’t nessacarily dislike it but it feels backwards

[noble vector]

Basic murder nk isn't fun to play tho rlly
And I think there's nothing wrong with more deception. Honestly SDGs are better with more sources of doubt

[pliant bloom]

it promotes bad gameplay because "oh your target bleeds now"

[alpine patio]

if the sk risks killing the tp lo claim even with the possibility of a LO, trapper, bodyguard, trickster then congrats

[noble vector]

Why gaslight gatekeep girlboss deception to a single NK !!

[lone yoke]

@noble vector has leveled up! (37 ➜ 38)

[noble vector]

Thanks tatsu

[pliant bloom]

a terrible risk but ok sure

let's reward bad gameplay even more

your counterplay to tplo is to legit just kill the tp

[noble vector]

I love the amount of times people said thanks tatsu to levelling up LOL

[alpine patio]

a terrible risk for the sk right?

[pliant bloom]

you're slamming into a brick wall and getting rewarded

[alpine patio]

wws already suicide on tp lo claims, there is no point balancing around bad decisions

[pliant bloom]

when what should happens is you die or lose a night for being an idiot

[alpine patio]

there are 4 roles that make this a risk

[pliant bloom]

please name them

[pliant bloom]

because they kill a bunch of people

[shell sail]

Eh sorta? But SK is almost like a constant im not against giving SK more nuance but i feel like this is just not it for SK in particular like I’d like for SK if it where to lean into deception to be like a methodical Serial Killer hiding bodies and wills for example

[alpine patio]

lookout, bodyguard, trickster trapper

[pliant bloom]

that's the risk reward

[pliant bloom]

me when the LO has to determine which out of 5 people is the SK on d3

me when I just kill the BG and trapper(?)

[alpine patio]

if you think going on a tp lo claim as ww ever has a good risk reward then I have nothing else to say to you

[pliant bloom]

that is the entire point of you going on TPLO as werewolf but sure

[noble vector]

I think faking your death and taking on a new self as a disguise fits that pretty well

Hiding roles & wills would not be very stronk imo

[pliant bloom]

you're just ignoring the fact even if the werewolf dies they're killing a bunch of people

[noble vector]

And this is fun so why not!

[pliant bloom]

no werewolf who is trying to win is going to death bomb the TPLO call

[alpine patio]

wow you killed the tps and get a free kill on the tpow

wtf

thats crazy

what

[pliant bloom]

wow you attacked the tpow for no opportunity cost and got value

wtf? that's wild

[shell sail]

Eh i feel like faking your death as SK just feels wrong but that’s more a personal issue I guess but meh

[pliant bloom]

it's the equivalent of old poisoner lmao

[alpine patio]

you cannot unless at least some tps die

[olive pike]

I dont see a reason to do this. SK is already suprisingly balanced. workds best with shroud tbh.

[alpine patio]

if you take that risk that's a bad play

[quick wagon]

SK is supposed to be a super designed killer

[pliant bloom]

wrong

[alpine patio]

wrong how

[pliant bloom]

because it simply put just makes your target need to get healed AGAIN

it is pulling away tps for doing their job correctly

[quick wagon]

like, SK's design is supposed to make them the most consistent killer, aka, the one specialized in killing

idk how to feel about this

[alpine patio]

you realize you just die if theres a bg/trapper right?

[noble vector]

pings tuba antics

[pliant bloom]

you're literally PUNISHING tps for protecting someone correctly

[pliant bloom]

please show me where trapper and bg spawns every game

go ahead I'll wait

[alpine patio]

your argument is that this is a free kill on tpows

[noble vector]

I dont think bleed is that big of a deal rn, it's not even on the table at all atm

[pliant bloom]

nope

I said it's free value

try again

[alpine patio]

okay your argument is this is free value on tpows

[pliant bloom]

because DRAWING TPS (which is what tos1 pois did) is fundamentally VALUE for free

[quick wagon]

i'll be honest

i don't like bleed

[pliant bloom]

it's literally value for being WRONG on who to kill

[quick wagon]

i really don't like bleed

[pliant bloom]

no role should BENEFIT from having their ability stopped

[noble vector]

Bleeding is bad because it hurty and makes u die die

[pliant bloom]

burning is bad because I flame

[vocal heron]

I disagree with 90% of this statement (Shroud needs a buff, thats the 10% I agree with)

[pliant bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-pyro-team-fortress-burn-in-flame-fire-gif-15811879

[noble vector]

being posessed and used as a tool to kill someone by a ghost is bad because I arrested

[quick wagon]

not entirely because of that

[alpine patio]

okay that's fair

I think the argument of this being free value on tpows is still wrong though

[quick wagon]

the Alerting Vet who was RBD when 4 townies visited them:

[pliant bloom]

it's free value because it draws attention away from other players

onto solely the tpow

[quick wagon]

this is just me being pendantic btw

[pliant bloom]

your tp now can't protect your seer or your psychic cause if none of them accurately protect the tpow they just simply die

[quick wagon]

Bleed doesn't actualy help SK that much, you would be surprised

[alpine patio]

thats fine in my eyes

[pliant bloom]

it is not

I again state that no role should be punished for doing their role correctly

[pallid portal]

walmart ww is balanced yeah

fr

[quick wagon]

Bloodlust is so eugh

[whole grove]

We need more rampage roles 🙄

[pliant bloom]

if a TK kills an evil they shouldn't die because they committed a murder

because their entire point is to kill evils

[quick wagon]

you know, i always had this fake memory of SK being able to kill a doctor who succesfully healed their target instead

[pliant bloom]

that is disgustingly overpowered

[vocal heron]

new dream SK buff: deals Unstoppable Attack

[noble vector]

wish dot com werewolf

[pallid portal]

eh my proposal might not be the way but bloodlust isnt either

[noble vector]

we have werewolf at home
werewolf at home:

[pliant bloom]

bloodlust being balanced is the worst take ever

[noble vector]

I think it's a good idea personally

[vocal heron]

same

[pliant bloom]

I wouldn't worry about it

[whole grove]

I think it would be interesting to at least try out

[vocal heron]

SK with rampage sucks

[noble vector]

I have come around on the idea fully now LUL

[quick wagon]

Bloodlust is sometimes even negative utility for SK

it's so great

[pliant bloom]

bloodlust may actually be the single most terrible mechanic ever added to the game

[quick wagon]

wow i love bloodlust specially when i kill who i didn't want to kill (i am playing SK the role supposed to have a crowd control and reliable kills)

[noble vector]

bloodlust is so goofuy

[quick wagon]

they took a look at Mass Murderer

thought "wow that's a great role"

[vocal heron]

Is vanilla SK bad? yes
is it better than tos1 SK? also yes
should SK be reworked? yes again

[noble vector]

they took a look at werewolf*

[quick wagon]

no no it's mass murderer

[pliant bloom]

btw if this SK rework goes through I can make compliance actually balanced

[quick wagon]

let me show it lmao

[noble vector]

I was joking

Ik what mass murderer is LUL

[vocal heron]

Compliance can only be balanced with a Necro Passing kind of feature

[noble vector]

I was just saying doubt they even looked that far

[pliant bloom]

because no NK will be above 1 KPN then

[pliant bloom]

not really

compliances problem is the insane KPN possibilities

[pallid portal]

Compliance needs to alter nk defense stuff and detect immunity when its on

[pliant bloom]

it cannot happen now so I deadass think all 4 NK vs 11 town might work

[quick wagon]

i love when i get my kills disabled because i hit 2 players n1

(i had no control over it whatsoever)

[pliant bloom]

possibly

[pallid portal]

so u dont have to ban 10000 role

Roles

[pliant bloom]

add fragile

[pallid portal]

?

[quick wagon]

Compliance is super usurper

[pliant bloom]

fragile was a modifier that made it so all natural defense was lowered to None

this ignored ethereal

[pallid portal]

hm

[alpine patio]

yeah compliance would be much better with nks having no defence

[quick wagon]

except Usurper is balanced 👍

[pliant bloom]

and of course Mon and friends are temporary so they also weren't affected

[quick wagon]

(in Wolflord)

[pallid portal]

and sus to sher ig

[pliant bloom]

ye

and then it could work

[pallid portal]

yeah

[quick wagon]

ofc

[pallid portal]

im fine w it

[pliant bloom]

just make fragile do both

[alpine patio]

are you gonna follow the trend of one factional person getting sus immunity

[quick wagon]

Add The Neutral Book of Killing fr fr

[pliant bloom]

no

they don't need it considering they all have KPN

[vocal heron]

if NKs lost defense in Compliance, then this rework would work great as then SK could be the only NK in compliance that is unaffected by the change

[pliant bloom]

the difference is that apoc and coven don't have consistent KPN

[quick wagon]

consistent and reliable are 2 different roles

[alpine patio]

youre gonna need to deck town out with this idea

[quick wagon]

Coven's KPN is mostly consistent

[pliant bloom]

all roles

compared to compliance

every single compliance role can kill

[alpine patio]

me when I see a 4kp potential n2

[pliant bloom]

coven and apoc cannot kill unless under certain conditions in most cases

the closest cov team to every role killing consistently every night is like jinx rit witch (with a vigi) and like necro with dead killing roles

[quick wagon]

the book

i think that's a pretty consistent one

[pliant bloom]

jinx has the book

and I said every

you're ignoring the fact EVERY compliance member can kill

[quick wagon]

that makes it reliable not consistent

[pliant bloom]

potato tomato

[quick wagon]

you're ignoring the fact that 2 of said members are freaking Arso and Werewolf

[pliant bloom]

Arso is effectively a kill every night

werewolf is werewolf

[quick wagon]

except that it has self douse, which can be abused of

[noble vector]

What the fuck is a potato tomato 🤯

[pliant bloom]

that's called infinite KPN

[pliant bloom]

a very brown tomato that's used for mashed potato tomato

[quick wagon]

that sounds horrible

[pliant bloom]

potato tomato fries

LOL

[noble vector]

IS THAT FOR REAL

[quick wagon]

that sounds banworthy

[noble vector]

perma banning rn

[pliant bloom]

it is real

source: made it up

[noble vector]

[quick wagon]

me when curtis is a Hazbin hotel character

anyways SK should have 2 KPN unstoppable

@noble vector

[whole grove]

problem solved

[pliant bloom]

Serial Warserker

[noble vector]

[quick wagon]

Spree Killer - Neutral (Serial Killer)
Attack: Basic
Defense: Basic
Unique: Yes
Credit to: Amphy, the best dude around
Attributes:
You are Roleblock and Control immune
If you are role blocked, you will deal a Basic attack to all your role blockers instead.

Slaughter (🌙♾️)
You will deal a Basic attack to two targets. if one of the kills fails for whatever reason, the other will too. You may select the same target

Investigative Results:
Sheriff: Your Target Seems guilty of something
Reveal: Your target is a mad murderer who wants it to be over as quickly as possible. This one must be a Spree Killer!
Goal: Kill everyone who opposes you

[quick wagon]

SSerial KKiller

[quick wagon]

@noble vector super balanced role here

[noble vector]

[quick wagon]

Curtus

[dire pagoda]

I liked it better when the name was just man

[noble vector]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1197648675883716669/1268694117789995118/petcurtis.gif

[manic schooner]

I considered this before but

how do you handle rule breakers

i.e. if you steal 3's identity and start being racist

isn't people just going to report 3 in mass instead of you

[alpine patio]

wait

crazy point

how did I not think about this

[manic schooner]

this was legit the first thing I thought of when I thought of this idea

so I never suggested it

[alpine patio]

reports are gonna go crazy with this role

[manic schooner]

but now I'm seeing Tuba suggest the same thing I came up with before and I was like "wait hang on a bit this is gonna have the same issue that led me to never suggest this idea"

[noble vector]

We have the moderation system to deal with this

[alpine patio]

time to see if tuba can redirect reports midgame

[noble vector]

This has been said

All reports go to us, not the vanilla team

And we have info on exactly what's going on

Plus it's been said SK will likely have a message revealing who they were originally when lynched

[pliant bloom]

reports on a disguised person will probably go to the sk

and not the disguised person

even if it does the sk just gets banned lol

[whole grove]

Or just while sending the report it alerts the mods "hey the offender can be 1 of 2 people, make sure to check who you're banning"

[manic schooner]

THe thing is

then it doesn't feel liek a Serial Killer

The theming doesn't work at all for SK like Bloodlust once did

[pliant bloom]

bloodlust doesnt make sense

what serial killer ever killed 5 people in one night at the same house

[manic schooner]

y

[pliant bloom]

none

[manic schooner]

???

how is that somehow impossible

[pliant bloom]

all serial killers were crafty fuckers who went about their ways discreetly

[pliant bloom]

thats called a genocidist

[whole grove]

What's more craftier than disguising as your own victim and faking your own death, making it harder to be caught

[alpine patio]

bloodlust is terrible right now

[icy jewel]

if we consider mass shooters

then it's obvious

[pliant bloom]

serial killer doesn't use a gun

i think thats vigilante

LOL

[noble vector]

Serial Killer, not Mass Murderer
Serial as in on multiple different occasions - they didn't get caught

[pliant bloom]

or veteran

[alpine patio]

the sk skins the targets face and puts it on, now the theming works

[whole grove]

New NK: mass shooter
They just shoot everyone during the day

[noble vector]

Serial Killers are different to terrorists and etc

[clever halo]

They can handle reports. You aren't going to get banned just because X amount of people report you.

[pliant bloom]

ive always felt that a serial killer is just a lunatic who decides to kill people cause they're insane

it makes sense to do insane shit like wear peoples skin

compared to just saying "haha im gonna stab a bunch of people"

[icy jewel]

Serial killers just kill with no apparent motive

[austere gulch]

Just have it so that reports directed at a disguised... why is this rework going to SK it should really just be going to Shroud sigh... SK are funneled to the player controlling their actions, not the account with the name

[icy jewel]

"a person who commits a series of murders, often with no apparent motive and typically following a characteristic, predictable behavior pattern."

[fathom rock]

What if I'm a Serial Murderer?

[alpine patio]

for the record I still dont want this rework to go through because I want the nks to work like this

[pliant bloom]

shroud doesnt need the rework as much as sk does

[austere gulch]

Their motive is to satisfy their own gratification

[pliant bloom]

just saying

[austere gulch]

SK is the shrimple, not-so-sneaky NK

Why

[noble vector]

Reports is not a concern either way I'm putting that out there

[austere gulch]

Does it need this

[icy jewel]

Serial Killer needs a rework

[austere gulch]

And not some better rework idea

[icy jewel]

shroud needs a rework

[austere gulch]

Yeah but this is akin to slapping Percept onto Investigator

[noble vector]

Shroud is fine, it can live with a buff

[alpine patio]

alr Ima cook an sk rework

[icy jewel]

or atleast some changes

[austere gulch]

Or

[icy jewel]

well yes

[alpine patio]

I think a pretty easy sk rework is just giving sk a stalk(this doesnt track) ability

[austere gulch]

Mass Hysteria onto Illusionist

Which I also hate

[clever halo]

Let's not make the whole thread about that, it was decided it is for SK, so it is.

[fathom rock]

Once SK kills 3 people, it leaves the town in victory (their bloodlust is sated). Trust. Good idea.

[pliant bloom]

ench already has a special ability

🤷

[austere gulch]

Dreamweaver
Was

RIGHT THERE

[noble vector]

I think SK doesn't have an identity really, it's malleable
I would want it to be shrimple but, this is modded not vanilla so that's not as big of a concern to me

[whole grove]

Blue vigi here

[icy jewel]

I don't think thats enough to compare to other NK though

[clever halo]

It wasn't my first choice but if people hatebomb it because "this should be for shroud!” then nobody is going to get it.

[austere gulch]

THE ORIGINAL REWORK WAS FOR DREAMWEAVER

[pliant bloom]

Dreamweaver is the worst role in the game

that doesn't make it a better role

[noble vector]

Fun fact, it was literally made for DW

[austere gulch]

Did you not see Loon's rework

[noble vector]

Yeah u knew it

[icy jewel]

I want SK to have a way to deal powerful attacks while having a unique identity

[austere gulch]

I mentioned that

[noble vector]

Mb!

[alpine patio]

nah listen itll cook when I make the rework trust

[pliant bloom]

i have not

[noble vector]

Didn't see cos I was fighting chat scroll sorry LUL

[alpine patio]

okay but bloodlust is ass can we just agree about that

[austere gulch]

this doesnt make illusionist a better role either

[icy jewel]

yes.

Bloodlust was one of the worst mechanics

[pliant bloom]

it makes illu a more versatile role

[icy jewel]

to exist

[austere gulch]

That was the idea that introduced Mass Hysteria

[noble vector]

The original rework and loon's rework are the same

[pliant bloom]

with more opportunities to exist

[noble vector]

I made the original

[austere gulch]

You can make Illu a more versatile role in a thousand different ways

[clever halo]

Tuba's first SK rework was good too but this will be good.

[austere gulch]

But

You give it another ability

[dire pagoda]

a report on 3's position would simply be a report on you, I assume

[austere gulch]

Which STILL relies on TI to function?!?

It makes no sense

[alpine patio]

sk shouldnt become a second deception nk

[austere gulch]

This doesnt even make Illu more versitile

It still relies on specific TI spawning to do anything

[pliant bloom]

it affects all ti though so not really specific

[austere gulch]

For some TI its so painfully obvious it might as well not do anything

[whole grove]

Thing is the original player 3 can also say bad stuff before being bodyswapped, and if you report it a bit later on it might be directed to the wrong person
It's probably better to make the mods check both players that have had the player 3 position imo

[noble vector]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1202983750636539944 this was the original one and
it got put onto illusionist instead

[dire pagoda]

mass hysteria is a very lame way to cover for the missing deception coverage

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[dire pagoda]

that's how I feel about it

[noble vector]

for wha

[austere gulch]

It's also how I feel about it

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

check pins

[whole grove]

Pins:

[noble vector]

yeah check pins

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

its a pinned message

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

???

why not

[noble vector]

guh

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[whole grove]

(In fact it's 2 pinned messages)

[icy jewel]

go to settings of post

[dire pagoda]

yeah

[icy jewel]

mobile can view pins in settings

[whole grove]

nvm

[noble vector]

sorry for ping tubald

I forgot

[icy jewel]

idk if u can see this but like

its in settings of post

[dire pagoda]

you have to tap the top, go to settings, then go to pinned messages as usual

[icy jewel]

nope im still blocked by him

great im yelling into a wall

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[austere gulch]

what

fine

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

he blocked me for something

i cant recall what

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[austere gulch]

Here you go

[dire pagoda]

I wish there was at least an option to set discord back to the way it used to be

[pliant bloom]

so what was the dw rework

[austere gulch]

SK shouldnt be rb immune if we're just overhauling to this degree

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[austere gulch]

By the way

The rb immunity is just as bad as Poison

[pliant bloom]

wtf

[austere gulch]

Its just a holdover at this point

[kindred leaf]

tap the very top of your screen

[noble vector]

ANGERY !!!

[pliant bloom]

isnt the dw rework just a better illu

[kindred leaf]

it will send you all the way up

[pliant bloom]

like BY far

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[dire pagoda]

oh I just don't think mass hysteria should exist at all

I don't really care about the dw rework

[pliant bloom]

misinfo is stronger than no information and that entire dw rework made all misinfo

[whole grove]

Guys I have an idea for a DW rework
Hypn-

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1202983750636539944

[pliant bloom]

thats nice

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pliant bloom]

yea its kinda just a better illu/ench

[pliant bloom]

do you think bloodlust is a well designed ability?

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

main issue is I think we need curt for that and he is not really around tos after the

I N C I D E N T

[pliant bloom]

that doesn't step into the terrain of ANY other role?

(hint: werewolf and berserker)

[noble vector]

SK has a horrific winrate it's so bad

[pliant bloom]

^

sk is not strong lol

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pliant bloom]

idk where you got that from etiher

[noble vector]

SK and Werewolf are both terrible

[icy jewel]

SK is the weakest role in the game

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

WW is better by miles

[pliant bloom]

it gives it utility

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pliant bloom]

that makes it a better role

[icy jewel]

all NK suck rn tho

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

Werewolf was given the ability to track 2 people per game
In exchange for it now being able to maul its own teammates and die

[alpine patio]

how have I seen this take 3 times in this thread alone

[noble vector]

legit

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

fake the info?

[noble vector]

Why are you not faking info yeah

[icy jewel]

thats an issue with NK being non unique

[whole grove]

Me when fake claiming

[icy jewel]

all NK should be unique

[noble vector]

If you jump and just sit there, you will be outted yes

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

I dont think sk should get disguise but it would make sk good

[noble vector]

Don't disagree at all tbf

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

good

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

That's fair

[whole grove]

Test it out like the dep rework!

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

Tbf I did not like it on SK at first but it grew on me

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

gUH

[whole grove]

I wonder how easy this is to code

[icy jewel]

https://tenor.com/view/guh-gif-25116077

[noble vector]

yesnuo

[noble vector]

yes

[austere gulch]

not

[icy jewel]

im assuming its possible considering a dev posted this

[austere gulch]

It's certainly possible

[noble vector]

I think tuba isn't gonna post anything he cant do yea

[austere gulch]

Doesn't mean its gonna be easy

[whole grove]

Everything is possible with code!!

[noble vector]

But it might not be easy

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

SK is consistent dog shit statistically

Ofc the statistics are far from being perfect but, you can generally see how strong a role is if it does consistently well or consistently shit

[icy jewel]

isnt arsonist / werewolf the strongest NK

[noble vector]

SK is one of the consistent ones

[noble vector]

Werewolf is also shit

[icy jewel]

consistently trash

[noble vector]

Shroud and Arso are tied best

[icy jewel]

all nk are shit

[alpine patio]

my opinion on the sk is the best nk take is that it comes from people who play tos2 aa

[noble vector]

They are all not grea tho yeah

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

Shroud and Arso have jackal winrate tho

[icy jewel]

what even is jackal WR'

[pliant bloom]

arso's wr is low because of its environemnt

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

I think the stats from hundreds of games are more reliable than the experience of one playuer tho tbf

[icy jewel]

bring back arsonist frames

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

only half joking when i say this

[noble vector]

Arso was a MONSTER in tos 1
It had no changes just, the game changed around it

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

disagree arso is good

[icy jewel]

it lost frames

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

It only fooled invest tbf

[icy jewel]

now it can fool seer

[noble vector]

Which meant it didn't have to conform to invest

That was its strength

[icy jewel]

also consig/pm

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

invest was meta defining so it didnt matter

[noble vector]

Idk if I'd go as far as that

Arso is already decent but
It fell off hard

[icy jewel]

Arsonist douse should make the target appear as arsonist

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[icy jewel]

(Exception to if you already show sus)

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

no ideas yet

from tubald anyway

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pliant bloom]

this is wrong

arso is the best NK in the game

arso is held back because every list its in is a list where theres 3 different factions with the ability to kill each other and the arso

[noble vector]

Arso is still good but it's bad in comparison to tos 1 where it was GRHAEUHHIUHI stronk

I think that's where the perception its not great came from

It fell off a bit

[pliant bloom]

this as cause of slower games

not because arso as a role got worse

[noble vector]

Mhm

100%

[pliant bloom]

id say arso is better cause theres more visiting roles now

like trick, admi, a majority of the coven, etc

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

OFC !

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[whole grove]

All NKs now become nuclear bombs

[noble vector]

They are just fundementally weak winrate wise. it has to be that way

It's just an issue when they are

As piss poor as WW and SK are doing rn

Because those roles are inconsistent and keep killing their own team

[pliant bloom]

^

nk should never go above a 10% wr

and as a majority NEVER above a 15% wr as a whole

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[pliant bloom]

if any NK is above 10% you have a problem and 15% is meta defining as a role

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

I wouldnt say that as the main problem

[noble vector]

no but that's part of it

[alpine patio]

ww and sk's main problem imo is that theyre the loud nks

[whole grove]

inb4 someone says "all any doesn't matter"

[noble vector]

look how shit WW and SK are here

[alpine patio]

and they dont have enough to compensate for being the loud nks

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[noble vector]

Tbf I don't know if DCs count towards the winrates going down

It might

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

it's just slow and swingy

thats why people hate it

[delicate robin]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[alpine patio]

waiting till n2 to do something and then the only killer who killed gets lynched d2

might as well do something useful and get nuked instead

[delicate saddle]

judge winrate is less than SS and Auditor??!!

Womp Womp Womp Manipulated EVIL list

[noble vector]

That one is an anomalous result I believe

Judge has a higher winrate in all other modes

[quick wagon]

Spree Killer*

/Mass Murderer

/Rampage Killer

[fallen spire]

ive wanted a role / rework like this for so LONG

yes

[rich yarrow]

just don't put this in vanilla or someone will use it to spam slurs

but yeah in modded it seems like it'll be cool

except report processing is not the easiest

[winter escarp]

Well also people in Modded are less likely to do something like that in the first place

Most people who do things like that are F2P players

[kindred leaf]

also i feel like doing that would get you another kind of report, in that spamming slurs would also be seen as throwing since "oh why would they be spamming slurs unless it's sk, report the guy that just died they're the sk"

[winter escarp]

That's like three tiers of metagaming but yeah that too

[teal peak]

and even then, thanks to the naming self during matches, reporting someone could be redirrected to whoever disguised as them and/or if reporting afterward it will be revealed that there was a disguise

[dire pagoda]

I think that the way it works should be elaborated to avoid people missing the mark on reports

[noble vector]

That’s actually true I didn’t even think about that

If someone randomly begins spamming slurs for no reason you can guess they might be an SK now LUL

Either way anyone who does stuff like that will get perma banndd

[cold plover]

I might have to stop using my regname if sk uses my regname to spam slurs

they'll get banned but ppl will think it's me

[noble vector]

Well that’s why there’s gonna be a message when the SK is killed if they disguised as someone

[cold plover]

oh cool

that's confirmed?

[noble vector]

P much

I spoke with tuba he said he is adding it

[cold plover]

nunny leaker

[noble vector]

Fr

I am so evil

[cold plover]

X's role was Serial Killer, they were originally Y!

[noble vector]

Yeaaaa

I put

“It was a disguise! [x] was the original Serial Killer who faked their death.”

[cold plover]

seems a bit much

tbh

[winter escarp]

"X (previously Y)" also works

[noble vector]

It’s fine but the main part is I didn’t want to include the disguised person’s name

Because that can be confusing as to who was what

[cold plover]

oh right yeah

[winter escarp]

🧌

[noble vector]

It should be crystal clear instantly, X IS THE SERIAL KILLER!!!!!!!

[cold plover]

X's role was Disguised Serial Killer

[noble vector]

Hrmm

The original serial killer was X, disguising as this member of town!

[cold plover]

too much for wdah

[noble vector]

See Elon this is why it should be twitter still look at what your platform is being accused of

[noble vector]

Oh in my head it’s not WDAH

it pops up like the jester kill message

In chat

[cold plover]

oh

what if they die at night

[noble vector]

Pops up in chat during WDAH

Same for if they get nuked or daykilled generally

[cold plover]

like inq's message?

[noble vector]

Possibly yea!

Either way it should be in chat because tos players CANNOT READ GRGGRRRR

[loud nexus]

Nunny can you leak when GodCoroner is being added to btos2

[noble vector]

It was already added

None of you found it yet

[cold plover]

bc you don't play tos

[noble vector]

:O

[loud nexus]

actually I did

[noble vector]

I do too 6 months ago !

[cold plover]

yea but you will never play btos2

ever again

[noble vector]

Ofc I will

For real tho uh

Blood on the Clocktower addiction

It’s hard to go back to tos because I always wish I was playing botc instead LMFAO

I do play modded but very very occasionally atm

[cold plover]

tuba lobbies are cool 👍

[noble vector]

I think if we get a big update again like new roles I would start playing again tho

Yeahhhhh tru Tru Tru

I have played in tubas lobbies semi recently

[cold plover]

which mode?

[noble vector]

I forgot I played a few matches

But this was a few weeks ago

[cold plover]

nunny the moderator

[noble vector]

I am soooo good at moderating wym

[cold plover]

just add another botc role like CL

ez ez

[noble vector]

Ofc!!!

[cold plover]

idk anything about botc so u can do that

[noble vector]

Tbh tos shouldn’t be like botc

You can take ideas from it but like

[cold plover]

each is their own game i guess?

[noble vector]

Botc I will be legit I think it’s too hardcore of a social game

I don’t meant that as in “oh tos players will shrimply not understand 🤓” because I’m not even that good at tos and I got it

But games can be way more tense and dramatic and I think it’s a bit much for the average tos match

[cold plover]

tos is good at being casual ig

[noble vector]

It is to be fair

That’s why it’s been so popular

But it’s been losing any hardcore audience it had

Because it’s been balanced so wildly and I don’t think the devs are particularly “hardcore SDG players”

[cold plover]

I don't really want to sweat loads in tos tbf
I'll play like 2 games every day

[noble vector]

(For reference just because you play botc you are not a hardcore SDG player nor do I necessarily mean it as an objectively admirable thing LMFAO)

[noble vector]

Yeah I never played more than 5 games a day at the height of me playing tos

Or at least not in one session

[cold plover]

I like apoc tt bc it's very slow and I get to play longer games

however that's it for me

[loud nexus]

honestly I prefer playing chaotic gamemodes and being neutral roles

cause it's just more fun

[winter escarp]

I despise Apoc TT personally

And Apoc Jackal

Apoc TT feels like a TT timer but twice

[noble vector]

I like longer games but I find apoc TT so boring, nothing happens

For reference average game time for BOTC is two hours LOL

[winter escarp]

Long games are fun

Just not Apoc TT

[cold plover]

well ur apoc rework helps it
(i am never going to play botc)

[noble vector]

It’s because in apoc TT absolutely nothing happens

Once bers is dead the game grinds to a halt

Any demons in BOTC who don’t kill come with a strict time limit

[cold plover]

yeah I hope your rework gets in this update

[noble vector]

Leviathan does not kill but wins by day 5, or if two townies are killed

[noble vector]

Defo not this update

[cold plover]

ah nooo

[noble vector]

Tbh I have not directly discussed it with tuba yet

I don’t like to shove my ideas in his face if he doesn’t read them usually LUL

Except trial control because I’m a gremlin

[winter escarp]

Can you send me your apoc overhaul? I don't have it saved

[cold plover]

its just adding a kill

[noble vector]

#1265017712636067963

[cold plover]

onto apoc

[noble vector]

I need to name it less generically

[winter escarp]

Thanks

[noble vector]

[cold plover]

welp time to enjoy the vamp rework, the seer nerf and the sk rework this update

[pliant bloom]

anyone can do this in theory

[loud nexus]

it's a stupid idea anyway

why would you want to get yourself perma banned and hung

[whole grove]

Society

mfw people are just like that because they feel like it

[graceful stratus]

Pretending I have the will formatting of someone else is gonna be painful

[whole grove]

You're gonna receive a copy of your target's will when you kill them I believe

[graceful stratus]

High skill role for sure, you research your targets logs before stealing their identity

[dire pagoda]

t

[whole grove]

Town of Salem players googling how to commit identity theft (they rolled SK in BTOS2)

[delicate saddle]

one positive is it could open up for a new very cool jester strategy where when you see someone gets killed by SK you just start speaking super differently

[whole grove]

Interesting

Step 1: Accidentally get confirmed as TI
Step 2: Pretend SK stole your body

-# Step 3: Actually get your body stolen by SK

[lusty oyster]

jester stragery:
"hey guys i love [poltical party]
pretends to get digused by sk
"nvm i fucking hate [poltical party]"

[whole grove]

🗿

[noble vector]

I mean if anyone says anything gross as jester they get perma'd loool

But it would legit be a fun jester strat to pretend SK disguised as you

[whole grove]

You could try being subtle, like someone who died to SK spoke with capital letters at the start of each sentence, suddenly you start speaking with capital letters

[noble vector]

Yeahhhh#

[fathom horizon]

sks would rejoice if im playing lmao

i am very easy to mimic

[graceful stratus]

I tend to type extra convoluted which is why I was worried about meta gaming

but I know some experienced players that type simple and minimalistic

[noble vector]

I am so totally impossible to mimic and figure out when I’m in a game

Except for the 9 times Curt figured out who I was even tho I used a different name EVERY TIME

[dire pagoda]

I use apostrophes completely by habit

[graceful stratus]

I try to avoid capitalizing stuff and using proper grammar in death notes or of I am jailor because it gives me away.

But playing the character is going to be even more of a pain I imagine

[icy jewel]

you have to mimic how they speak and not how you spoke

otherwise its a giveaway

[pallid portal]

Thats what we call social deception

[pallid portal]

literally everyone on stream knows who i am because of lowercase name

D:

[graceful stratus]

“Hey guys, I’m so totally aggro rn yall dumb and stinky and town is a farm animal”

[toxic wraith]

And when you use wierd keys that I don't have on my keyboard

[pallid portal]

Theres nothing that can be done about that lmfao

[icy jewel]

pay to win irl smh

[pallid portal]

"just dont mistype" nuh uh

[noble vector]

and because
u type
like this
surely

[pallid portal]

nou

[noble vector]

LUL

[stiff hatch]

lmao true

I keep my name genericish

But I don’t play much so it’s hard to get identified

[teal peak]

I am way too eratic, I AM INVINCIBLE

...

I also can't play BTOS2 yet :( I'll join soon^tm

[dire pagoda]

yoshikage kira

[lusty oyster]

it's time to develop a typing quirk

hi how are yall doing ^w^

[winter escarp]

Is it like one of those gimmicks where games automatically change words to be more like something else?

Like Space Station 14, which automatically have Snake people type extra S's when they send a message

[whole grove]

Everyone starts speaking uwu speak so SKs become disgusted and don't disguise as them (this will become the new meta)

[winter escarp]

Player will type "These are cool" and the message will automatically change into "Thesssse are cool"

[winter escarp]

Issue with that is if SK is also one of those

[whole grove]

Still would be funny if people started doing it anyway

[winter escarp]

Projecting

[whole grove]

[winter escarp]

Anyways, I think a lot of people talk like that anyways so SK is moreso likely to be one who communicates in such talk than not

So the strat will be NOT to do it

[delicate saddle]

me leaving a special message in my will for the SK telling them to kill someone i don't like as the price for stealing my body

[lusty oyster]

[winter escarp]

Me having my will in another language and openly posting it so the SK will have a harder time faking as me

[fathom horizon]

me using notepad to store my will

[barren creek]

me writing math equation in my will so the sk will do the math homework for me

[whole grove]

real

[fathom horizon]

me putting my sat paper in my will so the sk can pass my sats for me

[whole grove]

me putting my home address in my will because I need a friend

[fathom horizon]

me putting the sks home address because they need a friend

[winter escarp]

Me not having a will (they'll have to figure it out themselves)

[barren creek]

new meta is putting all your will in desktop notepad

🔥

[winter escarp]

🔥

Me writing my will in braille so the SK has to be blind to read it

[noble vector]

You can do that, defeats half the point of your will tho ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Me when town cripples themselves with no last wills just so the SK may struggle slightly more

[pliant bloom]

^ which only spawns in like 2 gamemodes lol

[barren creek]

town can figure it out themself og

[pliant bloom]

if you are purposely making your teams information worse to counter a single NK and disregarding the usually more deadly Pandora, Apoc, or Coven factions you're kinda just throwing

[barren creek]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[pliant bloom]

cause you can tell tone over text

[barren creek]

skill issue

[graceful stratus]

I'm assuming the Serial Killer steals your notes too

otherwise there would be a serious problem with people who put a real will in their notes and a crappy one in their last will (same applies to town who can just TELL THE TRUTH but make it look crappy)

The micromanagement is going to be insane if this gets added

[whole grove]

Notes aren't sent to the server pretty sure, because there's no reason for the server to have them
If you make it send them, people could just use the notepad app on their computer instead

[graceful stratus]

At that point it's just metagaming though

[whole grove]

You are now banned from taking notes

[graceful stratus]

This is a genuine concern

It's optimal to write your will in a way that hinders a potential SK

[whole grove]

I prefer notes being completely private thouh, sending notes to the server is not the solution as it can very easily be countered

[graceful stratus]

not only that but ALL of my evil wills are about what I was before

I keep legit neutral/evil wills and hide my fake wills in the notes

It can't be countered unless people are metagaming

[whole grove]

Banning people for using a notepad is insane though

[graceful stratus]

So I see we found a problem...

Because you also can't ban town for making legit wills that are designed for an SK check

[whole grove]

You could also add a copy and paste feature to chat messages so SK can just copy the will if it was sent to chat

[graceful stratus]

This is definitely missing from ToS2

[winter escarp]

I mean, sure it's the meta, but it's the meta against the SK

It would be a concern against a Coven or Apoc or NS

But I don't think it should be much of a cause for concern against the SK of all things

The role with THE lowest win rate in the game.

[delicate saddle]

SK becoming best Coven Deception

[winter escarp]

Though things would improve with this change

Truth

[noble vector]

We just had an entire convo about why that is a terrible idea for town

[graceful stratus]

It’s not, just make an exact copy of your will that looks worse

Or better if you see better without the role hashtags

[whole grove]

Actually dies
Town reads the wrong will

[graceful stratus]

You didn’t even read what I said

[noble vector]

No what cat said is entirely valid based on what you said

If you write a slightly wrong but plausible will and then die

And town reads that will

They will see that info and go based off it

[graceful stratus]

No, I’m saying make a correct will but format it different

[noble vector]

What does that accomplish?

[graceful stratus]

It’s an SK check so they have to retype your will to look legit

[noble vector]

Why would they do that

[graceful stratus]

If they don’t want to get outted

[noble vector]

“Oh! I’d better tidy up this will so it looks nicer” - SK, putting themselves as obviously a different person

[whole grove]

If you are upped to trial and have to post your full will, you're also going to post that will

[noble vector]

How would that out them???

[whole grove]

The SK can argue just as much "I intentionally made my will look like that for SK check"

[noble vector]

Exactly

[graceful stratus]

That’s not an excuse at all lol

[noble vector]

Also what is town gonna do when they see your will looking all garbage? Surely then they will think you’re an SK by your logic????

[graceful stratus]

If it is then town is throwing

[noble vector]

What

[whole grove]

what

[noble vector]

You are making zero sense

I think you’re misunderstanding the mechanic

There is no difference between the original will and the will when the SK picks it up

[graceful stratus]

No because they will never see your last will until you die

Your real will will be in your notes and be formatted different

[whole grove]

So if they never have to see your last will until you die, SK also doesn't have to reformat it, as it "will not be shown until they die"

[noble vector]

Ok and what if the SK just kills you instead of jumping to you?
“Oh that must have been the SK who just died because their will is formatted wrong” ?????

There is no way to tell if you just killed an SK or not

That does not work at all

[graceful stratus]

Then they see the will designed to be an SK check

[noble vector]

Whatever

[graceful stratus]

You’re missing the point of what I am sayingn

[noble vector]

Your point is nonsense that’s why

[pliant bloom]

ironic

[graceful stratus]

You’ll see when I actually use this strategy

It’s only hypothetical rn things can change

[noble vector]

So you’ll make your will look weird and then what

How does that achieve anything

[graceful stratus]

I post my will as a confirmed townie and SK jumps to me, they will have a will formatted different and unless they spend a ton of time changing it town will know

[noble vector]

Wait do you mean like

Have your real will in notes

And then have the same will but with slight differences

[whole grove]

I think they might mean that

[graceful stratus]

And in my real will at the same time yes

[noble vector]

Right that would actually make sense

[whole grove]

Anyways we should add message copying

[noble vector]

Okay I admit I was misunderstanding you LOL

That’s my bad sorry

[pliant bloom]

they'll do it