Serial Killer Rework

[pallid portal]

Serial Killer (Neutral Killing)

Attack :Basic
Defense : Basic

Attack (Infinite)
Deal a Basic attack to your target.

Disguise (1️⃣)

• Once per game, kill a player. You will steal their identity for the rest of the game.
• You will fake your own death, your old body appearing as a role of your choosing, and using your own last will. You can select the role during the day as well.
• Your ability will be canceled if you die, or your target dies before you can disguise as them.

Attributes:
You are Roleblock Immune.

TLDR: Idea was originally for Shroud but I feel like SK needs this change more than Shroud, since some people like current Shroud but no one likes Bloodlust

[patent rapids]

I do NOT understand how this works ;-;

[pallid portal]

which part

[pallid portal]

so ur #2 and u jump to #1

it will say #2 was killed by shroud

and show the role you chose

youll gain 1s name character etc

1 will gain your old name and die

[patent rapids]

ohhh

that's huge

[pallid portal]

you can do this once for a reason

[delicate tangle]

Old disguiser nk?

[patent rapids]

:troll_face:

[pallid portal]

yea

it uses ur own last will so should solve the issue

[delicate tangle]

Actual insanity you suggested this

This is hilarious though

i don't think I like this as a shroud rework though

Like I'd probably accept it more as it's own nk

[patent rapids]

I mean shroud is a ghost ;-;
Why can't they just posses a player they kill

[delicate tangle]

That's called lore balancing

Don't

[cold plover]

why not

why can't it be shroud

[noble vector]

Tbh I like shroud as it is

But I think it seems like most people dislike it

And this is a good suggestion so

[lusty oyster]

freaky friday?!!? 👅

[pallid portal]

?????????

[noble vector]

[lusty oyster]

it's a movie where people get body swapped

i just added the 👅 because of the freaky memes

[noble vector]

[winter escarp]

Ditto

[woven schooner]

shroud main issue is the fact that if you're against someone with basic def, there's no way for you to get rid of them (all other NK have a way to remove someone with basic def from the game)

[winter escarp]

So it struggles in All Any

And that's it

[pallid portal]

thats really an all any problem

[woven schooner]

Also an issue in JR

[lusty oyster]

ok im confused, is attack a witch attack or not?
it says "this will not control them like a witch" but it also says "force them to attack the second target"?
which... implies witch control? im confused

[pallid portal]

no

it makes u visit twice lol

[winter escarp]

OH

[pallid portal]

u do ur usual ability and attack that person at the same time

[woven schooner]

would this expend two charges if you're a charge based role?

[whole grove]

Now make this Shroud work together with current Shroud!!

[pallid portal]

jumping is charge based

[noble vector]

So basically you visit two people
And the first player is responsible for the death of the second instead of you

[lusty oyster]

oh so like... after you jump bodies???

[woven schooner]

No, I mean if you shroud a vigilante into attacking someone other than his target, will he use two bullets or only one

[pallid portal]

he uses their regular bullet, visits that other player but that other player is killed by a shroud

[woven schooner]

oh so the second visit is a dud visit okay

[alpine patio]

can you choose someone and make them kill themself

[pallid portal]

yeah you can but you will visit them

so it doesnt change much

[delicate saddle]

everyone will start whispering eachother keywords that they say to eachother at the start of everyday when they realize there's a shroud

[whole grove]

How would making someone kill themself interact with BG/Trapper

[woven schooner]

what happenned if the role can't visit?

[cold plover]

Nah no way that's happening

[pallid portal]

like current shroud

[woven schooner]

like say you shroud a ret into attacking

[alpine patio]

thats too much effort for a metagame

[woven schooner]

does it default to attacking the guy?

or does ret grows leg and beat the crap outta your target

[pallid portal]

sheriff checks 1, shroud makes sheriff attack 2 , sheriff visits both 1 and 2 if theres a bg or trapper on 2 the sheriff dies

[woven schooner]

would tracker see the shroud visit?

[pallid portal]

yes

[woven schooner]

and if the role shrouded can't visit, it defaults to default shroud behavior?

[whole grove]

But what if you select the sheriff as both targets, would they die on a BG on themselves?

[pallid portal]

i imagine it would work like when you shroud a bg currently

[whole grove]

Mayor dies to Veteran

[pallid portal]

they die to themself

[woven schooner]

yeah that's why I'm asking lmao

[pallid portal]

yeah i think that unironically would happen lol

[woven schooner]

Can't wait for ret to die to jinx like in TOS1

[pallid portal]

!ret

[winter escarp]

Would Shroud Mayor have 3 votes?

[woven schooner]

well it was ambusher but you got my point

[cold plover]

well they're going to fix that

right?

[whole grove]

Probs not

[pallid portal]

no clue

[pallid portal]

no

[lusty oyster]

ok bro just show gameplay footage this is acutally fucking melting my brain tryin to understand
I might just be stupid as fuck but still

😭

[pallid portal]

i dont

[woven schooner]

tuba just said it's intended for the role to visit to attack even if it can't

[pallid portal]

this is a proposed idea lmao

[cold plover]

just look at tol possessor

it's just that

[lusty oyster]

it's not thou

[pallid portal]

that was a tos1 bug they were talking about

[lusty oyster]

my friend said it's not

[alpine patio]

okay so the big question here is how the hell this works with factional shrouding

like if you possess a coven member

[lusty oyster]

tol possessor acutally witch controls

this isnt' thnat

[winter escarp]

When's the SK rework? That role struggles the most.

[pallid portal]

the proposed sk rework was quite

[woven schooner]

Sheriff checks BG. Shroud make Sheriff attack Mayor. Sheriff successfully check BG and is silently controlled into attacking the Mayor, if BG was on mayor then he would counter attack the sheriff

[pallid portal]

controversial

[winter escarp]

Oh?

[pallid portal]

i intended SK to be like old CL

[woven schooner]

yeah, you could witch any role into visiting, it was fun

[winter escarp]

That's pretty bad ngl

[woven schooner]

I remember how you could force amnes to remember the role of your choosing if you witched them into someone who died the same night

[pallid portal]

yeah but rampage is not good either

[winter escarp]

True

[delicate saddle]

wouldn't Coven knows if their teammate gets shrouded and so know who the shroud is

[woven schooner]

Since amne remembering was technically a visit and IG they never thought about amne being able to visit someone alive the night they die

[winter escarp]

Instead of just being old CL, maybe it also bypasses Barrier?

[cold plover]

yeah it was like that in tol iirc

[winter escarp]

When in "empowered" state

[woven schooner]

No, your target dies but appears to be you, and you appear to be your target

[delicate saddle]

you wouldn't gain access to Coven night chat i don't think

if you do that's kind of funny

[woven schooner]

We can have possessor in BTOS2 but we can't have transporter :(

[lusty oyster]

dies

[alpine patio]

coven would know if their team got shrouded for sure

[cold plover]

tuba would this happen?

[winter escarp]

Since in non-All Any rolelists, the only defence SK will have is Jackal, TPs, and Mon

[alpine patio]

getting coven night chat wouldnt make a difference tbh

[lusty oyster]

too niche imo
basic defence doesn't show up that much
there is like no reason to go aggressive other than killing NK/Jackal

[winter escarp]

Unless if it also bypasses given Defense

[alpine patio]

imagine seeing "15 has decided to shroud 1 into attacking 2" in coven night chat

[winter escarp]

In which it's peak

[pallid portal]

yea it didnt make it

i mean this specific idea could be used for sk instead with th attack just being basic attack

[lusty oyster]

it would work if basic defence was more common tbf

[pallid portal]

if we ignore shroud lore

[lusty oyster]

tf is

[cold plover]

I like current shroud though
I don't want this to get in bc current shroud is fine

[winter escarp]

Shroud lore?

[lusty oyster]

tos2 doesn't have lore

what

[pallid portal]

we could make this SK instead

[winter escarp]

That could work

[winter escarp]

The possession thing only, right?

Or the Attack mechanic as well?

[delicate saddle]

SK could work yeah my main problem is that Ability 1 feels super janky if you got the identity of a coven

[cold plover]

I think current shroud is fine ;-;

[pallid portal]

attack would be just basic attack if this was added to sk

[winter escarp]

Gotcha

[woven schooner]

SK skinning his victim to wear their skin would be metal af

[winter escarp]

Possession is goofy to add to SK but it's a funny idea

[winter escarp]

THAT IS TRUE

[delicate saddle]

hannibal lecter

[cold plover]

rename it smth else then

[winter escarp]

"Skin"

Flay

[cold plover]

"soul swap"
oh wait-

[woven schooner]

Child-Hood

[winter escarp]

You're wearing the skin of the person you're imitating

[woven schooner]

today's shy look SK

[cold plover]

I would prefer this gets given to sk bc I don't think shroud needs a rework

[winter escarp]

Metal as shit SK rework

[cold plover]

it's good as is

[woven schooner]

Wait

[winter escarp]

Flay the skin of a target and wear it to imitate as them

[woven schooner]

what if we split the rework in two?
The SK get the ability to take the appearance of someone else, and the shroud gain the ability to force anyone to attack anyone

[delicate saddle]

imagining a player trying to imitate another player's way of talking that is like the polar opposite of them is very funny

[woven schooner]

this way we get the better of both worlds

[winter escarp]

True

[cold plover]

well we remove bloodlust then

but sk has cautious

[winter escarp]

Obviously lol

[cold plover]

so how do u make a 3rd ability to sk

it alr has cautious

[delicate saddle]

cautious suck

[winter escarp]

SK doesn't really need cautious

It ain't that useful

[woven schooner]

Dark blue : SK
Light Blue : Shroud

[delicate saddle]

like 0 people use cautious

[cold plover]

in tos1 you 100% use it

every night

[winter escarp]

Not tos2

[delicate saddle]

i love killing

slopping down rampages

[woven schooner]

you're telling me someone who's skinning people alive to make suits outta them would be cautious?

[cold plover]

fair

[delicate saddle]

i mean hannibal lecter was pretty cautious

[winter escarp]

Your pfp looks like SK used Flay lmao

[woven schooner]

Removing bloodlust from SK would also remove his rampage, which would in turn remove the KP of SK which is good

[cold plover]

ww should be the only one with rampage

ideally

[woven schooner]

get in.

[winter escarp]

Scream emoji

[cold plover]

tuba what do u think about this

[lusty oyster]

why that makes no sense for SK to have

[delicate saddle]

it makes alot of sense and is COOL AS FUCK

[cold plover]

how?

[winter escarp]

DON'T LORE BALANCE

[woven schooner]

@lusty oyster

[lusty oyster]

NOT LORE BALANCING FFS

i mean why would sk have that and not shroud

just give both to shroud

lmao

[delicate saddle]

because is COOL AS FUCK and shroud is fine

[cold plover]

shroud really doesn't need it

[winter escarp]

Shroud doesn't need a rework it's fine as it is

SK needs something

[woven schooner]

Sk needs a fucking punt in the face

[winter escarp]

That's not "oh you don't kill roleblockers :D"

[cold plover]

@lusty oyster shroud really doesn't need a buff

[woven schooner]

Especially considering that most of the time you want to beat the crap outta rbers

[winter escarp]

Also SK KP with Bloodlust is not an issue at all lmao

[cold plover]

we could just remove sk killing rbers

[winter escarp]

If anything it needs more KP to be viable

[woven schooner]

No

[noble vector]

Shroud is statistically the strongest NK

[woven schooner]

no more KP

[pallid portal]

giving this to SK is the opposite of

[noble vector]

Which is funny

[pallid portal]

lore balancing

lore*

[woven schooner]

role balancing is bad, tuba said it

[pallid portal]

no u

[winter escarp]

SK is skinning their target and wearing it

[woven schooner]

dies

[delicate saddle]

we want it because is cool

[lone yoke]

@delicate saddle has leveled up! (9 ➜ 10)

[cold plover]

exactly
(but give it the 2nd ability it looks really good)

[delicate saddle]

tatsu shut the fuck up

[pallid portal]

i do not likethat sk overlaps with ww

[noble vector]

There’s a diff between balancing based on lore and balancing based on the core idea of a role tho

This would be super diff to SK it’d make no sense imo

[woven schooner]

Scrap the Bloodlust, and add the first ability instead

[woven schooner]

@noble vector

[whole grove]

You can always balance a role first and then try explaining it lore-wise after

[cold plover]

^

[winter escarp]

True

[noble vector]

That’s way too graphic holy LOL

[cold plover]

oh right you have to draw it

💀

[whole grove]

oh god

[winter escarp]

SK is the only character with blood on it's design

[noble vector]

Yeah and also just in general like that sort of stuff would raise the age rating of a game like tos LMFAO

[winter escarp]

Not even ww has it

[woven schooner]

could easily use a logo like this to explain it while still being "kid friendly"

[cold plover]

just make its icon tos1 disg

[noble vector]

No

[woven schooner]

I mean it's not like murder is already not kid friendly or anything

[cold plover]

aaaaaaa

[woven schooner]

So Arson is fine, but skinning people alive is not? Society.

[winter escarp]

Lore balancing this would work on Werewolf as a sort of "Wolf in Sheep's clothing"

[noble vector]

Can you stop

Parceval

[cold plover]

sk just uses a cool disguise

👍

[noble vector]

I mean that genuinely works way better 💀

I still don’t like it for SK because it’s supposed to be a more simple one imo

[whole grove]

SK just puts on a bit of make-up and buys new clothes in the store

[woven schooner]

Bloodlust already removed this from SK

[pallid portal]

Attackwould be just basic

if this was added to SK

[woven schooner]

Yeah

[winter escarp]

Yep

[pallid portal]

Not forcing someone to attack another player

[cold plover]

good

[woven schooner]

this however could be given to shroud ngl

[noble vector]

Imo for SK

Let it see someone’s role during the day

And kill someone at night (powerful to checked players)

Remove killing roleblockers just make it rb immune

[cold plover]

this is what seems ideal

[woven schooner]

SK is already RB immune

[noble vector]

Yeah

[woven schooner]

You just murder them on top

And what's better than stabbin' a pirate

[cold plover]

Jail

[winter escarp]

Giving SK a basic reveal mechanic isn't that bad of an idea

[cold plover]

I really don't think shroud needs a rework

;-;

[woven schooner]

Would make it so you prob need to ban SK in JR

[winter escarp]

Not really

[delicate saddle]

i feel like this would make claiming alot of TIs as SK super duper easy

considering the reveal is automatic and non conditional

[winter escarp]

Especially if you keep it as role and not alignment

[woven schooner]

Is the powerful part really useful here?

[noble vector]

It’s just there so you don’t lose against other NKs so easily

[winter escarp]

Give Serial Killer Unstoppable+ Attack

[whole grove]

If your target survives your attack, you learn their role

[woven schooner]

Like the others said, it's an AA problem

[noble vector]

Myeah, I wanted it to be easier to play. Also anyrhing putting doubt on TIs is a good thing imo it’s healthy for the game

[winter escarp]

Also you don't lose to Shrouds lol

[woven schooner]

I mean

in an ideal world, if there was only two NK alive the game should end in a compliance win

[whole grove]

The Serial Killer and Shroud looking at each other after everyone else died

[cold plover]

Not needed, shroud has basic and it wins the most

[noble vector]

Hmmmm

[cold plover]

in taa

[noble vector]

That’s interesting tbh

[winter escarp]

Oh yeah Shroud does win in TAA a lot lmao

(Comparatively)

[cold plover]

shroud wins as much as JACKAL in TAA

[woven schooner]

in the case of a stalemate in DTT it ends in a pandora win, so it ending in a compliance win in case of a NK stalemate would make sense

[noble vector]

NKs winning in a compliance win if only nks remain is interesting

[winter escarp]

You got the stats for that @cold plover

I want to see tjem

[noble vector]

Yea exactly

[woven schooner]

want me to make a post about it?

[noble vector]

Go for it I want to see people’s thoughts on it

[whole grove]

Kinda gives it the vibe of "you are secretly allied with all NKs, but you lose if you die"

[winter escarp]

If I recall, Arso/Shroud win the most/second most, Werewolf is consistently third, and SK is consistently fourth

[delicate saddle]

also giving NKs role reveal will just make the Colored Vigi Order even worse

[whole grove]

How about we ban NKs claiming colored vigi

[delicate saddle]

yeah i always have a feeling arso win the most

[winter escarp]

NKs turning into Apoc LMAO

[whole grove]

true!

[delicate saddle]

if you straight up claim colored vigi thats banable yeah

[winter escarp]

It's either the most or second most

[delicate saddle]

on d1/d2 atleast

[winter escarp]

It sort of jumps around

[delicate saddle]

you can publicly say that you side with town using death note as long as you dont reveal your identity

[winter escarp]

It was the best in Season 1 of TOS2 and the second best in Season 2 (behind Shroud)

[fathom horizon]

god its fucking trollbox isnt this

[winter escarp]

No clue how good Shroud was though

In Season 1

[fathom horizon]

outshadowed by apoc and arso

but it was good

[winter escarp]

So second best NK

[fathom horizon]

ye

[whole grove]

oh right you can just share your info using death notes :/

[fathom horizon]

survivability does wonders

[winter escarp]

Arso and Shroud sort of fighting for the top of viability

WW and SK fighting to be viable

SK is the role I have the least amounts of wins in Vanilla

[delicate saddle]

whenever i get WW or SK i just try to get as many kills as possible

[fathom horizon]

mine is ww

i have only won once as ww

[winter escarp]

Ironic since it was the role I won with first (in a scuffed Custom game)

[woven schooner]

SK / WW are way more aggressive than Shrodu, so you're more likely to being caught / killed by a bg / trapper

[winter escarp]

First ever TOS2 game I played it was SKs vs Vigilantes LMAO

I put on SK scrolls for the easy win

[delicate saddle]

does all roles win from the graves btw

[winter escarp]

All except NEs can

[noble vector]

Dont NK lose if dead

Even if a teammate wins?

[winter escarp]

No

[noble vector]

I might be wrong

[woven schooner]

not if another NK wins

[delicate saddle]

no other NK of same role still carry them

[noble vector]

Riight I didn't know that

[winter escarp]

You win with identical NKs

Even if dead

[noble vector]

Oh yeah thats how it worked in tos 1 anywya right

Idk why I forg LUL

[winter escarp]

@fathom horizon idea is to turn this from a Shroud Rework to an SK Overhaul (for ability) + Shroud Rework (for attack)

[fathom horizon]

so trollbox sk and shroud that controls but not really?

[winter escarp]

Yeah

[fathom horizon]

hm

i dont like pretending to be another person

but i like the shroud one

tho i still think controllings cool

[golden stirrup]

I would love more throne of lies type reworks (this is hella possessor vibes)

[delicate tangle]

Nah fuck taking shit from botc, ToL, wolflord, and etc. Add shit from monster seeking monster

[fathom horizon]

NO

[noble vector]

LOL

[fathom rock]

Honestly, might as well post this here

https://tol.fandom.com/wiki/The_Possessor

This way, people will get a far better understanding of what the "possess"/"Shroud" part actually means

[golden stirrup]

peak social seduction deduction

[lusty oyster]

i still don't like this

sure SK needs a rework

but like... no

just give the entire thing to shroud

[lusty oyster]

ok but why?
i feel like the entire thing should go to shroud
and SK get a different rework

[barren creek]

what happen if you jump body when they are factional evil like coven / apoc

[noble vector]

I kind of agree with blossom here

[barren creek]

do their teammate just know

[lusty oyster]

SK shouldn't have body jumping

and that isn't lore balancing to fucking say that

[noble vector]

I think it’s balancing around the core idea of the role

Which is valid

Easy to mix up with lore balancing but it isn’t

[lusty oyster]

it does lol

[alpine patio]

okay so to be completely fair

as far as I remember, shroud and arso are the top competitors for highest nk wr

and then it goes ww, and then sk lags pretty far behind

[lusty oyster]

what lol?

no??

[alpine patio]

in btos

[lusty oyster]

no that's jsut wrong

[woven schooner]

@lusty oyster it sounds wrong but it's the truth

And I think I have an idea of why

When you know it's a WW game, hanging him is a priority because of how rampages works

Arso and Shroud got the ability to stay hidden for long periods of time

and SK is forced to attack without detection immunity or anything

[alpine patio]

yeah there's definitely some bias involved with using wrs for balancing since shroud is so much of a nonthreat town usually prioritizes the factional evils

[woven schooner]

the factional evils or the other NK

JR for instance

Shroud is the only one that can't kill jackal

so jackal will not go out of his way to kill the shroud

[alpine patio]

but it's also not as terrible as people think tbh, it not getting screwed over by bg, trapper and a few TIs help it enough that it competes with the kp other nks get

[woven schooner]

Shroud is pretty balanced

It's just weird to use

since you can attack yourself by accident, or you could be forced to visit directly if the player you shrouded failed to visit

meaning you don't get kills as reliably as let's say a SK

[alpine patio]

compared to sk it just doesnt get kills when th shrouded person visits you

and that's offset by it not getting killed by bgs and trappers and the fact it can just basic attack like an sk anyways

[lusty oyster]

but it makes no sense

it should be the weakeast

[woven schooner]

there's also the fact that you can easily get killed by a trapper / bg if your target is rbd / hit an UO

[lusty oyster]

it IS the weakest

[alpine patio]

it's literally sk with astral visits, sk rampage isnt all that

[woven schooner]

and that's why it's the best

it's not a threat

it's not a top 1 priority

[winter escarp]

That's not the argument Parceval

[alpine patio]

it's not that bad in all honesty

[woven schooner]

town will not get out of their way to hang them instead of a factional evil

where a WW will be hung the moment he's outed

[winter escarp]

SK is also not a threat and it is the worst NK

[woven schooner]

SK with bloodlust is basically a WW

but shroud can only get multiples kill per night if there's a seer

[winter escarp]

Bloodlust is inconsistent at best

[alpine patio]

sk's bloodlust is too situational for it to make it better than shroud

[winter escarp]

Doesn't make it a threat

[woven schooner]

Would you rather hang a shroud or a SK

[alpine patio]

neither

[winter escarp]

Shroud isn't good because it's weak, it's good because it's hard to detect

[alpine patio]

id focus the factional evil in most cases that arent the first two days

[winter escarp]

SK can also just choose not to kill

[woven schooner]

Would you rather hang a factional evil or a Werewolf

[alpine patio]

ww!

on ww night

[winter escarp]

A Shroud can fuck over certain TPs so a Shroud

[alpine patio]

and arsos

[woven schooner]

Now, would you rather hang a SK with confirmed Bloodlust or a Factional Evil

[alpine patio]

Id also hang arsos

[winter escarp]

Shroud also has a framing ability

Which screws with TIs

So yeah, I'd hang Shroud over SK

[delicate saddle]

shroud

[alpine patio]

sk with bloodlust, BUT sk gets bloodlust late enough to where if town hasnt lynched a factional evil yet they need it alive

if you compare sk and shroud in your head

well

if you look at how much work sk bloodlust puts in real games, and then compare the two in your head

[lusty oyster]

but that doesn't make

fucking sense

[woven schooner]

Also

[lusty oyster]

logically

[alpine patio]

sk just seems much more lacking

[lusty oyster]

SK or

WW

or even arso

should be proforming it

[woven schooner]

Y'all forgot something about SK

[lusty oyster]

always

because ALWAYS will outproform it

[woven schooner]

SK can't be rbd / jailed to prevent him from killing

Shroud can be rbd to reduce his KP

[lusty oyster]

YEAH SO WHY THE FUCK IS SHROUD WINNING

fdgfdgfadgfadgadfgfd

[woven schooner]

Because in most case, the other NK are seen as more of a threat than shroud

[alpine patio]

alr you need to cope somewhere else

[winter escarp]

Roleblocking is situational on the rolelist

[alpine patio]

too situational

[winter escarp]

There aren't always roleblockers in the game

[alpine patio]

like bloodlust

[winter escarp]

Or Jailors

Also Jailor can just, exe

Lol

[alpine patio]

also

[winter escarp]

SK sucks ass

[lusty oyster]

excluding TAA
when the FUCK are you going to have more than 1 nk

[winter escarp]

Hardly a threat

[woven schooner]

Now that Baker can rb, there's a lotta rber in any mode with apocs

[delicate saddle]

town once got sheeped by a Pacifist Open Claiming Shroud because they forgot he was a shroud midway and focused on other leads

[winter escarp]

Baker doesn't opt to roleblock

[alpine patio]

in sk games, the rber will start whispering confirmed people who they're gonna rb sooooo

[woven schooner]

I'm counting jackal with dead recruits as a NK

[winter escarp]

They opt to reveal

[lusty oyster]

oh fuck you

[woven schooner]

:(

[lusty oyster]

what if it's all luck

[alpine patio]

basically what yall need to know from this conversation

[lusty oyster]

what if shroud just got lucky

deadass im not trolling

[alpine patio]

arso and shroud are the quiet NKs

sk and ww are the loud NKs

you need to stay low as a solo role

[winter escarp]

Shroud is silent and fucks over TIs and some TPs

SK, at best, kills a Tavern Keeper here and there

[lusty oyster]

rampage kills tps

[alpine patio]

so the quiet NKs are better at staying low and their wr reflects that

[lusty oyster]

doesn't arso have a even worse win-rate then sk?

[alpine patio]

no?

[winter escarp]

The Rampage is negligible

[woven schooner]

Also :
Shroud / Arso are Trespassing NKs (Invest will only see trespassing in most cases)
SK / WW are Trespassing / Murder NKs

[delicate saddle]

now would you rather hang a confirmed non-solo Coven or a confirmed non-arso NK

[alpine patio]

that's part of them being loud/quiet yeah

[woven schooner]

Depend on the rolelist

[winter escarp]

Shroud and Arso are best or second best

Werewolf is always third

Sk is always fourth

[woven schooner]

If we got a confirmed vig you bet I'm hanging the NK

[grim magnet]

such a long thread

[winter escarp]

Winrate wise

[woven schooner]

we ain't even talkin' about the rework anymore

[alpine patio]

if shroud ever tops arso in a list, Im assuming it's cause of people not giving a fuck about it/giving it a pity win

[grim magnet]

i mean that's a bit accurate

[winter escarp]

Or the fact that it's hard to find Shroud/it works really well with Seer

[alpine patio]

it's less hard to find shroud then it is to find an arso

[winter escarp]

True

[woven schooner]

shroud lowkey counter the most disgusting TI ever invented , so it's strong when town is strong

[lusty oyster]

ok arso does well in TAA but in like JR (im checking summer stats for this btw) it's like not even on the chart
in TAA it has the same win-rate as shroud

[delicate saddle]

i mean i think the best way to win as Shroud is just to stay as hidden as possible which means it relies alot on others killing factions

instead of itself

[lusty oyster]

but like in JR

it's not even on the chart man

[woven schooner]

Shroud is still the best NK

[alpine patio]

okay I want to assume it just didnt have enough space

uhhhh

[lusty oyster]

that was JR

[woven schooner]

Isn't arso banned in JR?

[lusty oyster]

not AJR

[alpine patio]

no way arso didnt get a single win

[lusty oyster]

no????

vet is

[woven schooner]

since you can douse your own recruit

oh it isn't ok nvm

[alpine patio]

Ima need tuba or curtis to clear this up before I accept this as a fact

0 wins is crazy

Im sticking to my guns though, I think arso is the best nk

[delicate saddle]

NP winrates ❗🉐🈺🈶🈯🈴🈹

[delicate saddle]

i do think arso is the NK with the most killrate idk about winrate

since there's alot of factors to decide if arso have a good late-game

or not

[woven schooner]

don't forget that arso is the only NK that can't synergize with NP half of the time

[alpine patio]

Yeah I can see why it would lose, but theres no way it loses that much

to not have a single win

[delicate saddle]

when i play any NKs i just focus on trying to kill as much people as possible because is fun

i never expect to with as NK

[noble vector]

Arso has the best potential strength

I think Shroud has consistency though from the looks of things

[austere gulch]

Shroud winrates are going to SKYROCKET after this

[noble vector]

Tempocalypse

[austere gulch]

.

Why did my message not send

Ok whatever

[noble vector]

bro did not pin his own post

Tuba L

[austere gulch]

You dont need the "Deal a Basic Attack" Attack ability, since you can just control yourself into targets you want to attack anyway.

[winter escarp]

The idea was to make the first ability (old TOS1 Disguiser) a replacement to SK's Cautious

The new Attack mechanic is to go to Shroud

[austere gulch]

Seriously

Though

I expected one of the possess concept or the control concept to be added

What I didn't expect is both being added at once

[pallid portal]

that one was if the rework was implemented to SK

[austere gulch]

This turns Shroud into an absolute powerhouse

[austere gulch]

...okay...

Not sure why its in the thread labeled "Shroud Rework" then

[noble vector]

I honestly think winrates wise they will plummet, only because of people killing themselves by misusing the possessor ability
I know what u mean about it being stronger tho

[austere gulch]

We're not Enchanter fallacying this

[left vortex]

like people are winning with shroud anyways

[noble vector]

No I'm not using any fallacy

[austere gulch]

Enchanter having a lower winrate than Medusa is due to skill issues, not due to actual strength

[noble vector]

Yeah that's why I said I know what u mean about it being stronger LUL

[winter escarp]

It was intended for Shroud but then we said "Shroud doesn't need it, SK does"

And it went from there

[noble vector]

Winrates are not reflective of strength is all I was saying

[winter escarp]

90% of this thread is talking about which is worse; SK or Shroud lol

[noble vector]

I don't want SK to become the complex NK

I would rather it be shroud

And this fits shroud anyway

I still thumbs up this post because I like it as a shroud rework

[winter escarp]

It could go to Werewolf instead realistically

[noble vector]

LUL

[winter escarp]

"Wolf in Sheep's clothing"

[noble vector]

Every NK becomes possessor arc

[winter escarp]

true

Keeping SK simple is fine, but SK needs something and Shroud doesn't

[austere gulch]

I'd much rather this go to Shroud than SK

Sk needs something

But it doesnt need this

Why should we slap deceptive abilities on a NK all about consistent kp

Shroud is the sneaky NK

A sneaky ability would fit it a lot more

Remember what happened with Percept

[noble vector]

Yeah

[austere gulch]

When instead of getting put onto a role it fit, it got put on the weakest TI to "balance" it

[noble vector]

100%

[stuck dust]

I agree but also disagree. Arso is too slow to fight against most towns, specially with how many kill confirms there is now

But if you pull it off, it can be amazing

[noble vector]

Every time this happens where an ability is randomly slapped onto a different role midway through creation
It always ends up with the ability being moved at some point

[austere gulch]

Arso is really only weak against high kp of any type

It's strong in any other environment

[stuck dust]

Exactly

[noble vector]

I just don't see why not give this to shroud and give SK something else

[austere gulch]

My point being it doesnt really need changes

[austere gulch]

Agreed

Don't make the NK category cannibalize each other

[winter escarp]

The question is, what?

[austere gulch]

Like the vanilla TI currently do

[austere gulch]

Expand upon the consistent kp aspect

Your rework on the other server might be okay with some tweaks

[stuck dust]

Ngl I kinda like how bloodlust works but it is just a better ww

[noble vector]

There's so many things you can do
I already offered one potential rework
There's the old CL idea
You can come up with much more

It's not as if we are stuck for ideas on what to do with SK

[stuck dust]

Because of a n1 kill

[winter escarp]

Fair

[noble vector]

SK is supposed to be the base NK really, in my eyes

[austere gulch]

SK and Arso are the base Mafiscum NK

[noble vector]

That's why I'm opposed to giving it a massively complex ability with lots of nuance and depth that was meant for Shroud

[austere gulch]

They're the two classic NK archetypes

[stuck dust]

What if we just make sk juggernaut fr (This is an awful idea)

[austere gulch]

Uh
Maybe quality-check the description before posting it next time

Just copying and pasting feels lazy

[stuck dust]

Who cares, the message gets sent around

[austere gulch]

Rename it to Berserker and make it NA while you're at it

SK could use a team

[stuck dust]

But like actually I sorta have an idea on how it could work

Bc bloodlust exists

I have a few ideas

Berserker but can lose it's charges

[austere gulch]

see

I don't like bloodlust

[stuck dust]

Or a point based system you can spec into for various buffs to yourself, like detection immunities (this is complex)

[austere gulch]

Remember when I said SK should be the consistent NK

The one that always poses a threat to town every night

Well, what happens when that so-called Consistent threat gets a kill blocked

Where's the bloodlust now

It's antithetical to the design

[winter escarp]

SK, after failing to kill due to Barrier or UO, could be Barrier/UO immune until it bypasses it once

[austere gulch]

This idea works on paper but falls flat in practice

Because when are you ever going to realistically hit Barrier or UO twice in a game

Usually its only going to be once, and you get no benefit

[woven schooner]

I lowkey think they should rework current Bers into a Juggernaut like NK and rework bers / war to not be a Killing role, so it would work with nunny' apoc rework

[austere gulch]

You mean the book of revelation?

[woven schooner]

yeah

[winter escarp]

How about a mechanic where the player that's attacked is constantly passively attacked from then on?

[austere gulch]

Yeah I would like that

[austere gulch]

Hmm

Has potential

[woven schooner]

We could prob just slap current Bers into Juggernaut (NK) and Create a new bers / war from scratch

[austere gulch]

A "bleed" mechanic that passively deals a basic attack to your target each passing night as long as you're alive

Would force TP to stay on that target

[winter escarp]

Yeah

[austere gulch]

I might do this for the CT Server

[woven schooner]

I have no fucking clue what a Common Town server is

[austere gulch]

Community Testing Server

[woven schooner]

Oh

fair

[winter escarp]

The CT Server™️

Common Town Server goes hard

[alpine patio]

also do you know what happened here, did arso just not win at all or what

[woven schooner]

arso fucking died

[noble vector]

no clue

[clever halo]

This completely solves the problem of shroud not being unique enough from SK, and always being able to choose your kills is a sizeable buff to the vanilla "shroud" ability.

[lusty oyster]

tf is enchanter fallacy

[clever halo]

I don't have any problem with this being Shroud and SK getting a different buff. I liked both proposed reworks. I think it fits shroud the best, "lore" be damned.

[alpine patio]

role wr bad = player skill issue OR weak role, opposed to, role wr bad = weak role

[patent rapids]

S H O R D

[cold plover]

it wins the most

[tight pier]

The ToL possessor is real

[pallid portal]

who cares about that 💀

youre just nitpicking for the sake of it

[whole grove]

💀

Minor spelling mistake, cancel Tuba on Twitch

[kindred leaf]

should we come up with a more unique name or is it staying the CT server

[stuck dust]

Is it possible that I could join

[austere gulch]

Probably

[austere gulch]

Sent you invite

[austere gulch]

No one does, I was just pointing it out because I could

[pallid portal]

To be a dick yeah

[austere gulch]

???

Hang on

[pallid portal]

I just missed a *

[austere gulch]

How does me pointing out a mistake so you can correct it and make your message more professional me being a dick?

I was trying to help

Dude

[pallid portal]

There was a idea earlier

So I just typed like if we go this route its like that

And missed a *

[austere gulch]

I was pointing out the fact that you said Shroud and not SK as the cause of death

. _ .

I did so because I believed you would change the message so that it would be more accurate and other people wont call you out for it

It's better to receive constructive criticism than to be judged for professionalism

Does giving that make me a dick?

I've never seen someone react this strongly to feedback before

[noble vector]

I think its mainly the fact you called him lazy

[austere gulch]

That wasnt what I was implying?

[cold plover]

it is not needed + u called him lazy

[austere gulch]

Sorry then

[cold plover]

.

[austere gulch]

Ah

I forgot about that part honestly. Apologies for that

I must have not been in a good headspace when I wrote that

Sorry

:/

[austere gulch]

Of course it wasnt needed

But people comment on my posts about mistakes I make all the time

I appreciate it

I suppose not everyone takes critism the way I do

You're right that I could have phrased it better though

That was my fault

[cold plover]

I mean calling people lazy doesn't help

but yeah

[noble vector]

I think just not the best choice of words at the end of the day but its allg

[delicate saddle]

@noble vector what if you were instead called Freaky and act like Tuba Antics

[whole grove]

what

[delicate saddle]

Traitor in Salem Deodat 360 Cultist montage?

[whole grove]

btw how does the attacking interact with bouncers

[winter escarp]

Shroud is dealt an Unstoppable Astral Attack if an attack ever bounces

[whole grove]

[olive pike]

wait... this is very OP. you can just... kill a revealed town power... and just get away with stuff untill they realize.

[whole grove]

Town know's there's a shroud though, so they will know to be wary of it

[noble vector]

Any reason to not trust the insta-confirm roles in a social deduction game?
Sounds like a win to me!

[tight pier]

ToL Possessor taking more Ws

Ignoring the fact you can't reasonably impersonate a Mayor but
Details

[whole grove]

Best things to steal are TPows that ran out of ability usage

[tight pier]

That being said this change will almost certainly make Shroud the best NK in the game

Is that a problem?
Nah

Especially since unlike Possessor it doesn't win at final 4

[olive pike]

dispote this. arsonist is still the best NK. not a chance

[tight pier]

I have many hours of ToL played

Possessor outclassed the 2 KPN SK/Arsonist hybrid

Believe me

It is so good

[noble vector]

Tbf arso has suffered in tos 2

It's not as strong as it was

Since everything else got so much more powerful

[restive linden]

bring back arso frames

[stiff hatch]

I would rather this as its own thing

But it could be really good

[alpine patio]

if it was its own thing it would just overshadow shroud

[stiff hatch]

I guess?

I’ve always been a shroud defender so idk

[olive pike]

Opinion: rename it to wraith, make it special, and keep shroud. simple.

That or shapeshifter

[stiff hatch]

Shapesifter13 reference

[clever halo]

Or rename it to Possessor and delete shroud so @noble vector can draw more fire art??

Real

[clever halo]

Jokes aside, Shroud is not nearly as bad as people say (it's on par with SK, this is not All Any) but the rework will improve it in every conceivable way and make it actually unique to play.

A lot less dependent on "do I play guess visits or do I give up on my power to just attack"

[olive pike]

that would honestly work tbh.

just replace shroud with one of these names:

Wraith
Possessor
Shapeshifter

[austere gulch]

You know I should try making more tos icons

This has reminded me

[quasi moss]

I haven't read this yet but I read the first part and...old Disguiser.

[noble vector]

Old Disguiser but minus the one thing that made it terrible yes

[quasi moss]

I'm not a huge fan of Controlling NKs

I feel like that ability should be restricted to Coven

[quasi moss]

I mean, of course it would be Wraith

because Banshee

Wraith x Banshee when

[quasi moss]

no I am not being biased towards my shroud rework

[clever halo]

it's not controlling because you still do your own action, it's shrouding.

You do your thing and go kill this other guy

[quasi moss]

it's incredibly similar

you still force your target's night action

and force them to use it on a specific player

it's just that there is no cooldown

[tight pier]

no you dont

you make them secretly kill someone inaddition to whatever they were doing

they have no idea they committed a murder

its literally just the shroud killing someone but making that person the actual killer mechanically

[clever halo]

Yeah, let's not misjudge a good rework because you want your own idea in the game.

I would give it another look since what you're saying is genuinely untrue.

[quasi moss]

what?

[teal peak]

seeing this so late lol, this is such an interesting concept, and honestly I love it

[shell sail]

POV shroud rework (I dont mind I really enjoy Possessor as an NK)

[loud nexus]

I think this would be epic and would make Shroud more interesting

[cold plover]

maybe something like this for a list around these roles?

(if sk gets disguise)

[cold plover]

sorc ?

[noble vector]

Sounds like you need #1270303392853393482
-# not blatant advertising at all what do u mean

[cold plover]

i alr saw it

q.q

[noble vector]

oh ic ic

no thoughts then?

[cold plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it's cool but ppl don't make good lists

[noble vector]

I mean, that's why I'd hope it's the good ideas which get in each week but yanno

Nothing says one person can't just keep suggesting banger lists

Anyway I am hijacking this thread now soz

[cold plover]

meanie

[noble vector]

[pallid portal]

Serial Killer (Neutral Killing)

Attack :Basic
Defense : Basic

Attack (Infinite)
Deal a Basic attack to your target.

Disguise (1️⃣)

• Once per game, kill a player. You will steal their identity for the rest of the game.
• You will fake your own death, your old body appearing as a role of your choosing, and using your own last will. You can select the role during the day as well.
• Your ability will be canceled if you die, or your target dies before you can disguise as them.

Attributes:
You are Roleblock Immune.

If this idea were to be added to SK

[noble vector]

Wow tuba u are really bad at writing esp the disguise bit that is so poorly written

This being for SK has grown on me honestly so

[whole grove]

smh do some quality control

smhsmh

[noble vector]

LMFAO

[whole grove]

So would SK need to be the only killer of their target to successfully do it?

[pallid portal]

The reason for me to write that is theres a good amount of people like current Shroud but no one likes Bloodlust lol

[noble vector]

The way its written rn I think is along the lines of
If your target is killed, then your ability is cancelled so you won't lose the charge but won't swap with them

That's how its written anyway

[whole grove]

Imagine a 3 TPow game and then 3 SKs body swap with the TPows

[noble vector]

So based

based SKs

[whole grove]

It's starting to grow on me too now

[noble vector]

I like the theming of it more

Serial Killers in real life are usually more crafty so they don't get caught
It doesn't make sense to me for SK to be like BLOODLUST KILL EVERYONE RAAAH like bro u gonna get caught smh

Also Werewolf is BLOODLUST KILL EVERYONE RAAAHHH so

[pallid portal]

yea SK being same as werewolf

does not make sense at all

[noble vector]

I do agree as well that SK needs change more than shroud

[whole grove]

I do wonder though if the disguise ability is good enough for the role or if it should have something extra

[noble vector]

Disguise is good imo

[whole grove]

I can imagine it being a bit stressful to have to copy the will of like a confirmed TI or something

[fathom horizon]

copypasting from tos1 should be added

[fathom horizon]

yeah i want sk to be a very tactical type nk

[pallid portal]

how copying the will of a conf ti

it will leave your own will

so you can fake the will

during the game

[noble vector]

I did want SK to be shrimple but, this is modded so it doesn't matter as much

[fathom horizon]

ok my brain has melted a little from playing puzzle games i have no clue what you just said

i am in no condition to discuss balance i dont think

[whole grove]

I'm not sure either what that meant

[pallid portal]

it will use your own last will when you jump bodies

unlike og disg

[whole grove]

So how do you copy the will of the body you just hopped into

[pallid portal]

you acquire it

[whole grove]

cool

[pallid portal]

the games gonna give it to u

[whole grove]

should mention that

[fathom horizon]

huh.

cool

[winter escarp]

I remember when I made a "Neutral Special Disguiser" role and someone said the role wouldn't work because people will say slurs or something

And I thought it was funny that they thought the role will work without that

[pallid portal]

I did realize our report system can adapt to that

[winter escarp]

That's neat

[noble vector]

The new report system was one of the reasons for this idea cropping up right?

Its super advanced any of yall who break rules are gonna get omegabaned in 1 nanosecond

[winter escarp]

Can't wait to type Cl*sterfuck and get banned

[past pebble]

Lurker mods on their way to ban you in record time

(Not saying its a bad thing ofc)

[winter escarp]

It's a horrible thing 😢
I want to make death threats and screams slurs in peace.

[past pebble]

Death threats should only be justified as Death /s

[cold plover]

what happens if you swap with a faction member, do you get night chat?

[pallid portal]

no

[cold plover]

i see

poss gaming

[pallid portal]

if that turns out to be too problematic we can just make it kill coven or apocs without jumping

[cold plover]

I doubt it, it's just the same as killing them

[winter escarp]

Imagine if Coven attacks and Stones you the same night you Disguise

[delicate saddle]

is "kill a player" basic attack or

[pallid portal]

yea

[delicate saddle]

oh okay

[cold plover]

it says attack: basic

[winter escarp]

Kill a Player has an attack value of None

[delicate saddle]

i was thinking it would be funny if you decide to straight up kill a confirmed monarch and steal their identity after they knighted 2 person

albeit that could work with other tpows out of charge too

[winter escarp]

If it was powerful it'd be a bit too dumb

[cold plover]

pros, dep
(but it's not really meant to be played like that)

[winter escarp]

Me when I use Disguise on a Serial Killer

[cold plover]

f

[cold plover]

yipee

[fathom horizon]

man why cant any of us forward shit

[dire pagoda]

I can forward stuff

[noble vector]

Everything is a skill issue

[cold plover]

Honestly sk having the disguise makes it a lot better than just stealing what ww does

[dire pagoda]

I do kinda like the idea of shroud forcing other people to kill for it

[cold plover]

it's not a true control but it is better than what we currently have

[dire pagoda]

I think shroud would already be way better off if both the shroud ability and the basic attack were replaced with that

[dire pagoda]

a true control would be worse since it can't force every role to visit

[cold plover]

I don't mind. Either is ok

[fathom horizon]

i mean i just dont like bodysnatching cuz i dont think there should be doubt that the person youre talking to is the person you think youre talking to

[dire pagoda]

why not?

[cold plover]

I like this

[dire pagoda]

boxes

[cold plover]

not mine

it's parceval's

[cold plover]

why is that a bad thing?

[fathom horizon]

i just dont like it

[cold plover]

not a reason

(ok im not serious)

[dire pagoda]

I mean, it is a reason

[cold plover]

but still

[noble vector]

Doubt is good in an SDG imo

[dire pagoda]

it may not be a very good one

but it's a valid reason

[dire pagoda]

yeah

[fathom horizon]

doubt in someones role and what theyre saying is true yeah, doubt in the info you get definitely

[dire pagoda]

especially in a game meant to be balanced around so much confirmability

[cold plover]

what is wrong with bodyswapping then?

it's good that the confirmed deputy might be evil

[noble vector]

Socially it does the same thing as conversion, but without the headache conversion brings

[cold plover]

don't look at this then https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1267147259385221161

[noble vector]

I like that idea!

My point is

You can’t convert evils for a reason

And the one role that can, Jackal, we have to moderate it for foul play LUL

[cold plover]

this just kills them but helps the sk

[noble vector]

Mhm

[cold plover]

your baker is now my property

[noble vector]

SK jumping to evils would be funny

[stiff hatch]

🤨

[noble vector]

They must have been playing well for that to happen

[noble vector]

Time to perma fangun o7

[cold plover]

it will be funny

in smth like PJR

[noble vector]

OR IN A COMMUNITY MADE LIST ADDED BY- no

Anyway tho LUL

[delicate saddle]

CS-Town Aligned SK after killing and disguising as NP and is jumpscared with 400 whispers the next day telling them to court and that they have maj

[noble vector]

LOL

Oh coven/apoc aligned SK would be so fun holy

[cold plover]

so you like it on sk!
(the role that has consistently been the worst in every mode might I add)

except arso ig?

[noble vector]

Yaya I said earlier

[cold plover]

poor arso

[noble vector]

Arso still has a good winrate tbf

But it’s undeniably weaker

It was a MONSTER in tos 1

But yeah WW and SK lacking winrate wise

[cold plover]

mafia had to rely on 1 role to shut it down

consort

now coven has like

4

[loud nexus]

wait so

[noble vector]

Myeah

[loud nexus]

how does this work if shroud is recruited

[noble vector]

Coven can straight up kill Arso or outpace them

[loud nexus]

and shroud possesses another player

[cold plover]

sk possessing

[noble vector]

Same as normal?

[cold plover]

right

[loud nexus]

does the other rec just die

[noble vector]

You aren’t changing alignments so

[noble vector]

No since you aren’t dying

[cold plover]

I thought sk was getting possess :c

[winter escarp]

Other rec also possesses someone

[cold plover]

so real

[loud nexus]

doesn't your character 'die' so you can possess someone?

[noble vector]

It’s fake

You don’t actually die

[loud nexus]

right

[cold plover]

your body dies, your role doesn't

basically

[noble vector]

Look at this it’s simpler

Oops sorry tubald didn’t mean to ping

[whole grove]

Wait so what happens if you kill a recruit and steal their body, does the other recruit just die without a second recruit death?

[noble vector]

I think your old body should appear as rec if you jump to rec personally

[cold plover]

What role does your original body show as?

[whole grove]

Role of choice

[noble vector]

Whatever you choose

[whole grove]

Town + Town recruits let's go

[cold plover]

how do you choose?

[winter escarp]

Can't wait for Pestilence to die to Serial Killer

[whole grove]

Day UI

[noble vector]

It’s a special ability so same as enchanter or rit or doom or etc

[cold plover]

Hmm

[winter escarp]

Yeah it's probably the exact same UI as Enchanter

It'd work fine

[cold plover]

the serial possessor strikes back

[noble vector]

Tbf it’s a disguise

You fake your own death

That’s why u can choose

[whole grove]

In the meantime allow enchanter to prepare forges during the day too

[noble vector]

Steal someone else’s identity

[winter escarp]

What would happen if your target is immune/was saved?

[cold plover]

sk commits stab and disguises as someone else

[winter escarp]

Do you get your Disguise back?

[cold plover]

wonderful

[whole grove]

Nothing

You get the disguise back

[cold plover]

I assume so

[noble vector]

Yes since it gets cancelled

[winter escarp]

Aight

[whole grove]

Would be annoying if the only thing that made your role special got wasted

[winter escarp]

Indeed that's why I inquired

[cold plover]

stab

disguise

repeat

[noble vector]

YOU WHAT?!

[winter escarp]

😱

[noble vector]

[noble vector]

INQUIS SPOTTED

[winter escarp]

😢

[noble vector]

No defense guilty

[whole grove]

I'm imagining an SK just taunting the town while disguising by having their will be "haha im in a different body now good luck"

[winter escarp]

Colon Dee

[noble vector]

Oh shit it was jester

[cold plover]

kinda counter intuitive

[noble vector]

Gosh darn it

[winter escarp]

It would be funny though

[patent rapids]

BLUE SK IS IN THE BASE

[winter escarp]

[Serial Killer] Out on Bail

"Get voted innocent on trial, and Disguise as someone the next night."

[cold plover]

when will we stop stealing from tol

never?

[whole grove]

Time to do a 1f1 as a seer and then hop out, while town then lynches the second player in your will after you "die"

[noble vector]

And botc

[cold plover]

I guess

possess is an obvious copy tho

[noble vector]

Tbf that is not a concept unique to tol