#Serial Killer Rework

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pallid portal
#

Serial Killer (Neutral Killing)

Attack :Basic
Defense : Basic

Attack (Infinite)
Deal a Basic attack to your target.

Disguise (1️⃣)

  • Once per game, kill a player. You will steal their identity for the rest of the game.
  • You will fake your own death, your old body appearing as a role of your choosing, and using your own last will. You can select the role during the day as well.
  • Your ability will be canceled if you die, or your target dies before you can disguise as them.

Attributes:
You are Roleblock Immune.

TLDR: Idea was originally for Shroud but I feel like SK needs this change more than Shroud, since some people like current Shroud but no one likes Bloodlust

patent rapids
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I do NOT understand how this works ;-;

pallid portal
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which part

patent rapids
pallid portal
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so ur #2 and u jump to #1

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it will say #2 was killed by shroud

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and show the role you chose

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youll gain 1s name character etc

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1 will gain your old name and die

patent rapids
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ohhh

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that's huge

pallid portal
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you can do this once for a reason

delicate tangle
#

Old disguiser nk?

patent rapids
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:troll_face:

pallid portal
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yea

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it uses ur own last will so should solve the issue

delicate tangle
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Actual insanity you suggested this

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This is hilarious though

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i don't think I like this as a shroud rework though

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Like I'd probably accept it more as it's own nk

patent rapids
#

I mean shroud is a ghost ;-;
Why can't they just posses a player they kill

delicate tangle
#

Don't

cold plover
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why can't it be shroud

noble vector
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Tbh I like shroud as it is

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But I think it seems like most people dislike it

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And this is a good suggestion so

pallid portal
#

?????????

noble vector
lusty oyster
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i just added the 👅 because of the freaky memes

noble vector
winter escarp
woven schooner
# noble vector Tbh I like shroud as it is

shroud main issue is the fact that if you're against someone with basic def, there's no way for you to get rid of them (all other NK have a way to remove someone with basic def from the game)

winter escarp
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So it struggles in All Any

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And that's it

pallid portal
#

thats really an all any problem

woven schooner
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Also an issue in JR

lusty oyster
pallid portal
#

no

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it makes u visit twice lol

winter escarp
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OH

pallid portal
#

u do ur usual ability and attack that person at the same time

woven schooner
#

would this expend two charges if you're a charge based role?

whole grove
#

Now make this Shroud work together with current Shroud!!

pallid portal
#

jumping is charge based

noble vector
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So basically you visit two people
And the first player is responsible for the death of the second instead of you

lusty oyster
woven schooner
pallid portal
woven schooner
#

oh so the second visit is a dud visit okay

alpine patio
#

can you choose someone and make them kill themself

pallid portal
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yeah you can but you will visit them

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so it doesnt change much

delicate saddle
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everyone will start whispering eachother keywords that they say to eachother at the start of everyday when they realize there's a shroud

whole grove
woven schooner
#

what happenned if the role can't visit?

pallid portal
woven schooner
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like say you shroud a ret into attacking

alpine patio
woven schooner
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does it default to attacking the guy?

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or does ret grows leg and beat the crap outta your target

pallid portal
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sheriff checks 1, shroud makes sheriff attack 2 , sheriff visits both 1 and 2 if theres a bg or trapper on 2 the sheriff dies

woven schooner
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would tracker see the shroud visit?

pallid portal
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yes

woven schooner
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and if the role shrouded can't visit, it defaults to default shroud behavior?

whole grove
#

But what if you select the sheriff as both targets, would they die on a BG on themselves?

pallid portal
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i imagine it would work like when you shroud a bg currently

pallid portal
#

they die to themself

woven schooner
pallid portal
woven schooner
#

Can't wait for ret to die to jinx like in TOS1

pallid portal
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!ret

winter escarp
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Would Shroud Mayor have 3 votes?

woven schooner
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well it was ambusher but you got my point

cold plover
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right?

whole grove
pallid portal
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no clue

pallid portal
lusty oyster
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😭

woven schooner
pallid portal
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this is a proposed idea lmao

cold plover
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it's just that

lusty oyster
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it's not thou

pallid portal
lusty oyster
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my friend said it's not

alpine patio
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okay so the big question here is how the hell this works with factional shrouding

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like if you possess a coven member

lusty oyster
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tol possessor acutally witch controls

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this isnt' thnat

winter escarp
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When's the SK rework? That role struggles the most.

pallid portal
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the proposed sk rework was quite

woven schooner
pallid portal
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controversial

winter escarp
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Oh?

pallid portal
#

i intended SK to be like old CL

woven schooner
winter escarp
woven schooner
#

I remember how you could force amnes to remember the role of your choosing if you witched them into someone who died the same night

pallid portal
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yeah but rampage is not good either

winter escarp
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True

delicate saddle
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wouldn't Coven knows if their teammate gets shrouded and so know who the shroud is

woven schooner
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Since amne remembering was technically a visit and IG they never thought about amne being able to visit someone alive the night they die

winter escarp
#

Instead of just being old CL, maybe it also bypasses Barrier?

cold plover
winter escarp
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When in "empowered" state

woven schooner
delicate saddle
#

if you do that's kind of funny

woven schooner
#

We can have possessor in BTOS2 but we can't have transporter :(

alpine patio
cold plover
winter escarp
#

Since in non-All Any rolelists, the only defence SK will have is Jackal, TPs, and Mon

alpine patio
#

getting coven night chat wouldnt make a difference tbh

lusty oyster
winter escarp
#

Unless if it also bypasses given Defense

alpine patio
#

imagine seeing "15 has decided to shroud 1 into attacking 2" in coven night chat

winter escarp
#

In which it's peak

pallid portal
#

i mean this specific idea could be used for sk instead with th attack just being basic attack

lusty oyster
pallid portal
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if we ignore shroud lore

lusty oyster
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tf is

cold plover
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I like current shroud though
I don't want this to get in bc current shroud is fine

winter escarp
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Shroud lore?

lusty oyster
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tos2 doesn't have lore

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what

pallid portal
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we could make this SK instead

winter escarp
#

That could work

woven schooner
winter escarp
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The possession thing only, right?

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Or the Attack mechanic as well?

delicate saddle
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SK could work yeah my main problem is that Ability 1 feels super janky if you got the identity of a coven

cold plover
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I think current shroud is fine ;-;

pallid portal
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attack would be just basic attack if this was added to sk

winter escarp
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Gotcha

woven schooner
winter escarp
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Possession is goofy to add to SK but it's a funny idea

delicate saddle
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hannibal lecter

cold plover
winter escarp
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Flay

woven schooner
cold plover
woven schooner
winter escarp
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You're wearing the skin of the person you're imitating

woven schooner
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today's shy look SK real

cold plover
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I would prefer this gets given to sk bc I don't think shroud needs a rework

winter escarp
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Metal as shit SK rework

cold plover
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it's good as is

woven schooner
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Wait

winter escarp
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Flay the skin of a target and wear it to imitate as them

woven schooner
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what if we split the rework in two?
The SK get the ability to take the appearance of someone else, and the shroud gain the ability to force anyone to attack anyone

delicate saddle
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imagining a player trying to imitate another player's way of talking that is like the polar opposite of them is very funny

woven schooner
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this way we get the better of both worlds

cold plover
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but sk has cautious

winter escarp
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Obviously lol

cold plover
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so how do u make a 3rd ability to sk

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it alr has cautious

delicate saddle
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cautious suck

winter escarp
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SK doesn't really need cautious

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It ain't that useful

woven schooner
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Dark blue : SK
Light Blue : Shroud

delicate saddle
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like 0 people use cautious

cold plover
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in tos1 you 100% use it

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every night

winter escarp
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Not tos2

delicate saddle
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i love killing

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slopping down rampages

woven schooner
delicate saddle
winter escarp
woven schooner
#

Removing bloodlust from SK would also remove his rampage, which would in turn remove the KP of SK which is good

cold plover
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ww should be the only one with rampage

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ideally

woven schooner
winter escarp
#

Scream emoji

cold plover
lusty oyster
delicate saddle
cold plover
winter escarp
lusty oyster
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NOT LORE BALANCING FFS

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i mean why would sk have that and not shroud

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just give both to shroud

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lmao

delicate saddle
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because is COOL AS FUCK and shroud is fine

cold plover
winter escarp
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Shroud doesn't need a rework it's fine as it is

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SK needs something

woven schooner
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Sk needs a fucking punt in the face

winter escarp
#

That's not "oh you don't kill roleblockers :D"

cold plover
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@lusty oyster shroud really doesn't need a buff

woven schooner
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Especially considering that most of the time you want to beat the crap outta rbers

winter escarp
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Also SK KP with Bloodlust is not an issue at all lmao

cold plover
winter escarp
#

If anything it needs more KP to be viable

woven schooner
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No

noble vector
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Shroud is statistically the strongest NK

woven schooner
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no more KP

pallid portal
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giving this to SK is the opposite of

noble vector
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Which is funny

pallid portal
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lore balancing

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lore*

woven schooner
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role balancing is bad, tuba said it real

pallid portal
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no u

winter escarp
woven schooner
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dies

delicate saddle
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we want it because is cool

lone yokeBOT
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@delicate saddle has leveled up! (9 ➜ 10)

cold plover
delicate saddle
#

tatsu shut the fuck up

pallid portal
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i do not likethat sk overlaps with ww

noble vector
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There’s a diff between balancing based on lore and balancing based on the core idea of a role tho

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This would be super diff to SK it’d make no sense imo

woven schooner
whole grove
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You can always balance a role first and then try explaining it lore-wise after

cold plover
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^

winter escarp
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True

noble vector
cold plover
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oh right you have to draw it

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💀

whole grove
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oh god

winter escarp
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SK is the only character with blood on it's design

noble vector
winter escarp
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Not even ww has it

woven schooner
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could easily use a logo like this to explain it while still being "kid friendly"

noble vector
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No

woven schooner
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I mean it's not like murder is already not kid friendly or anything

cold plover
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aaaaaaa

woven schooner
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So Arson is fine, but skinning people alive is not? Society.

winter escarp
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Lore balancing this would work on Werewolf as a sort of "Wolf in Sheep's clothing"

noble vector
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Can you stop

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Parceval

cold plover
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sk just uses a cool disguise

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👍

noble vector
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I mean that genuinely works way better 💀

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I still don’t like it for SK because it’s supposed to be a more simple one imo

whole grove
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SK just puts on a bit of make-up and buys new clothes in the store

woven schooner
pallid portal
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Attackwould be just basic

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if this was added to SK

woven schooner
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Yeah

winter escarp
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Yep

pallid portal
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Not forcing someone to attack another player

cold plover
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good

woven schooner
noble vector
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Imo for SK

Let it see someone’s role during the day

And kill someone at night (powerful to checked players)

Remove killing roleblockers just make it rb immune

cold plover
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this is what seems ideal

woven schooner
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SK is already RB immune

noble vector
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Yeah

woven schooner
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You just murder them on top

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And what's better than stabbin' a pirate

cold plover
winter escarp
#

Giving SK a basic reveal mechanic isn't that bad of an idea

cold plover
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I really don't think shroud needs a rework

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;-;

woven schooner
winter escarp
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Not really

delicate saddle
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considering the reveal is automatic and non conditional

winter escarp
#

Especially if you keep it as role and not alignment

woven schooner
noble vector
winter escarp
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Give Serial Killer Unstoppable+ Attack real

whole grove
#

If your target survives your attack, you learn their role

woven schooner
noble vector
winter escarp
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Also you don't lose to Shrouds lol

woven schooner
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I mean

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in an ideal world, if there was only two NK alive the game should end in a compliance win

whole grove
#

The Serial Killer and Shroud looking at each other after everyone else died

cold plover
cold plover
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in taa

noble vector
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That’s interesting tbh

winter escarp
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Oh yeah Shroud does win in TAA a lot lmao

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(Comparatively)

cold plover
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shroud wins as much as JACKAL in TAA

woven schooner
noble vector
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NKs winning in a compliance win if only nks remain is interesting

winter escarp
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You got the stats for that @cold plover

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I want to see tjem

woven schooner
noble vector
whole grove
winter escarp
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If I recall, Arso/Shroud win the most/second most, Werewolf is consistently third, and SK is consistently fourth

delicate saddle
#

also giving NKs role reveal will just make the Colored Vigi Order even worse

whole grove
#

How about we ban NKs claiming colored vigi

delicate saddle
whole grove
#

true!

delicate saddle
winter escarp
delicate saddle
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on d1/d2 atleast

winter escarp
#

It sort of jumps around

delicate saddle
#

you can publicly say that you side with town using death note as long as you dont reveal your identity

winter escarp
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It was the best in Season 1 of TOS2 and the second best in Season 2 (behind Shroud)

fathom horizon
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god its fucking trollbox isnt this

winter escarp
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No clue how good Shroud was though

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In Season 1

fathom horizon
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but it was good

winter escarp
#

So second best NK

fathom horizon
#

ye

whole grove
fathom horizon
#

survivability does wonders

winter escarp
#

Arso and Shroud sort of fighting for the top of viability

WW and SK fighting to be viable

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SK is the role I have the least amounts of wins in Vanilla

delicate saddle
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whenever i get WW or SK i just try to get as many kills as possible

fathom horizon
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mine is ww

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i have only won once as ww

winter escarp
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Ironic since it was the role I won with first (in a scuffed Custom game)

woven schooner
#

SK / WW are way more aggressive than Shrodu, so you're more likely to being caught / killed by a bg / trapper

winter escarp
#

First ever TOS2 game I played it was SKs vs Vigilantes LMAO

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I put on SK scrolls for the easy win

delicate saddle
#

does all roles win from the graves btw

winter escarp
noble vector
#

Dont NK lose if dead

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Even if a teammate wins?

winter escarp
#

No

noble vector
#

I might be wrong

woven schooner
delicate saddle
noble vector
#

Riight I didn't know that

winter escarp
#

You win with identical NKs

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Even if dead

noble vector
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Oh yeah thats how it worked in tos 1 anywya right

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Idk why I forg LUL

winter escarp
#

@fathom horizon idea is to turn this from a Shroud Rework to an SK Overhaul (for ability) + Shroud Rework (for attack)

fathom horizon
winter escarp
#

Yeah

fathom horizon
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hm

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i dont like pretending to be another person

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but i like the shroud one

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tho i still think controllings cool

golden stirrup
#

I would love more throne of lies type reworks (this is hella possessor vibes)

delicate tangle
#

Nah fuck taking shit from botc, ToL, wolflord, and etc. Add shit from monster seeking monster

fathom rock
#

Honestly, might as well post this here

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This way, people will get a far better understanding of what the "possess"/"Shroud" part actually means

golden stirrup
lusty oyster
#

sure SK needs a rework

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but like... no

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just give the entire thing to shroud

lusty oyster
barren creek
#

what happen if you jump body when they are factional evil like coven / apoc

noble vector
#

I kind of agree with blossom here

barren creek
#

do their teammate just know

lusty oyster
#

SK shouldn't have body jumping

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and that isn't lore balancing to fucking say that

noble vector
#

I think it’s balancing around the core idea of the role

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Which is valid

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Easy to mix up with lore balancing but it isn’t

lusty oyster
alpine patio
#

okay so to be completely fair

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as far as I remember, shroud and arso are the top competitors for highest nk wr

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and then it goes ww, and then sk lags pretty far behind

lusty oyster
#

what lol?

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no??

alpine patio
#

in btos

lusty oyster
#

no that's jsut wrong

woven schooner
#

@lusty oyster it sounds wrong but it's the truth

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And I think I have an idea of why

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When you know it's a WW game, hanging him is a priority because of how rampages works

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Arso and Shroud got the ability to stay hidden for long periods of time

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and SK is forced to attack without detection immunity or anything

alpine patio
#

yeah there's definitely some bias involved with using wrs for balancing since shroud is so much of a nonthreat town usually prioritizes the factional evils

woven schooner
#

the factional evils or the other NK

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JR for instance

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Shroud is the only one that can't kill jackal

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so jackal will not go out of his way to kill the shroud

alpine patio
#

but it's also not as terrible as people think tbh, it not getting screwed over by bg, trapper and a few TIs help it enough that it competes with the kp other nks get

woven schooner
#

Shroud is pretty balanced

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It's just weird to use

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since you can attack yourself by accident, or you could be forced to visit directly if the player you shrouded failed to visit

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meaning you don't get kills as reliably as let's say a SK

alpine patio
#

and that's offset by it not getting killed by bgs and trappers and the fact it can just basic attack like an sk anyways

lusty oyster
#

it should be the weakeast

woven schooner
#

there's also the fact that you can easily get killed by a trapper / bg if your target is rbd / hit an UO

lusty oyster
#

it IS the weakest

alpine patio
woven schooner
#

it's not a threat

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it's not a top 1 priority

winter escarp
#

That's not the argument Parceval

alpine patio
woven schooner
#

town will not get out of their way to hang them instead of a factional evil

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where a WW will be hung the moment he's outed

winter escarp
#

SK is also not a threat and it is the worst NK

woven schooner
#

SK with bloodlust is basically a WW

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but shroud can only get multiples kill per night if there's a seer

winter escarp
#

Bloodlust is inconsistent at best

alpine patio
#

sk's bloodlust is too situational for it to make it better than shroud

winter escarp
#

Doesn't make it a threat

woven schooner
#

Would you rather hang a shroud or a SK

alpine patio
#

neither

winter escarp
#

Shroud isn't good because it's weak, it's good because it's hard to detect

alpine patio
#

id focus the factional evil in most cases that arent the first two days

winter escarp
#

SK can also just choose not to kill

woven schooner
alpine patio
#

ww!

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on ww night

winter escarp
alpine patio
#

and arsos

woven schooner
#

Now, would you rather hang a SK with confirmed Bloodlust or a Factional Evil

alpine patio
#

Id also hang arsos

winter escarp
#

Shroud also has a framing ability

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Which screws with TIs

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So yeah, I'd hang Shroud over SK

delicate saddle
alpine patio
#

if you compare sk and shroud in your head

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well

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if you look at how much work sk bloodlust puts in real games, and then compare the two in your head

lusty oyster
#

fucking sense

woven schooner
#

Also

lusty oyster
#

logically

alpine patio
#

sk just seems much more lacking

lusty oyster
#

SK or

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WW

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or even arso

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should be proforming it

woven schooner
#

Y'all forgot something about SK

lusty oyster
#

always

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because ALWAYS will outproform it

woven schooner
#

SK can't be rbd / jailed to prevent him from killing

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Shroud can be rbd to reduce his KP

lusty oyster
#

YEAH SO WHY THE FUCK IS SHROUD WINNING

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fdgfdgfadgfadgadfgfd

woven schooner
alpine patio
winter escarp
#

Roleblocking is situational on the rolelist

alpine patio
winter escarp
#

There aren't always roleblockers in the game

alpine patio
#

like bloodlust

winter escarp
#

Or Jailors

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Also Jailor can just, exe

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Lol

alpine patio
#

also

winter escarp
#

SK sucks ass

lusty oyster
winter escarp
#

Hardly a threat

woven schooner
delicate saddle
#

town once got sheeped by a Pacifist Open Claiming Shroud because they forgot he was a shroud midway and focused on other leads

winter escarp
#

Baker doesn't opt to roleblock

alpine patio
woven schooner
winter escarp
#

They opt to reveal

lusty oyster
#

oh fuck you

woven schooner
#

:(

lusty oyster
#

what if it's all luck

alpine patio
#

basically what yall need to know from this conversation

lusty oyster
#

what if shroud just got lucky

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deadass im not trolling

alpine patio
#

arso and shroud are the quiet NKs

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sk and ww are the loud NKs

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you need to stay low as a solo role

winter escarp
#

Shroud is silent and fucks over TIs and some TPs

SK, at best, kills a Tavern Keeper here and there

lusty oyster
#

rampage kills tps

alpine patio
#

so the quiet NKs are better at staying low and their wr reflects that

lusty oyster
#

doesn't arso have a even worse win-rate then sk?

alpine patio
#

no?

winter escarp
#

The Rampage is negligible

woven schooner
#

Also :
Shroud / Arso are Trespassing NKs (Invest will only see trespassing in most cases)
SK / WW are Trespassing / Murder NKs

delicate saddle
#

now would you rather hang a confirmed non-solo Coven or a confirmed non-arso NK

alpine patio
winter escarp
woven schooner
#

If we got a confirmed vig you bet I'm hanging the NK

grim magnet
#

such a long thread

woven schooner
#

we ain't even talkin' about the rework anymore

alpine patio
#

if shroud ever tops arso in a list, Im assuming it's cause of people not giving a fuck about it/giving it a pity win

grim magnet
#

i mean that's a bit accurate

winter escarp
alpine patio
#

it's less hard to find shroud then it is to find an arso

winter escarp
#

True

woven schooner
#

shroud lowkey counter the most disgusting TI ever invented , so it's strong when town is strong

lusty oyster
# alpine patio no?

ok arso does well in TAA but in like JR (im checking summer stats for this btw) it's like not even on the chart
in TAA it has the same win-rate as shroud

delicate saddle
#

i mean i think the best way to win as Shroud is just to stay as hidden as possible which means it relies alot on others killing factions

#

instead of itself

lusty oyster
#

it's not even on the chart man

woven schooner
alpine patio
#

okay I want to assume it just didnt have enough space

#

uhhhh

lusty oyster
#

that was JR

woven schooner
lusty oyster
#

not AJR

alpine patio
#

no way arso didnt get a single win

lusty oyster
#

vet is

woven schooner
#

since you can douse your own recruit

#

oh it isn't ok nvm

alpine patio
#

Ima need tuba or curtis to clear this up before I accept this as a fact

#

0 wins is crazy

#

Im sticking to my guns though, I think arso is the best nk

delicate saddle
lusty oyster
delicate saddle
#

i do think arso is the NK with the most killrate idk about winrate

#

since there's alot of factors to decide if arso have a good late-game

#

or not

woven schooner
#

don't forget that arso is the only NK that can't synergize with NP half of the time

alpine patio
#

Yeah I can see why it would lose, but theres no way it loses that much

#

to not have a single win

delicate saddle
#

when i play any NKs i just focus on trying to kill as much people as possible because is fun

#

i never expect to with as NK

noble vector
#

I think Shroud has consistency though from the looks of things

austere gulch
#

Shroud winrates are going to SKYROCKET after this

noble vector
#

Tempocalypse

austere gulch
#

.

#

Why did my message not send

#

Ok whatever

noble vector
#

bro did not pin his own post

#

Tuba L

austere gulch
winter escarp
austere gulch
#

Seriously

#

Though

#

I expected one of the possess concept or the control concept to be added

#

What I didn't expect is both being added at once

pallid portal
austere gulch
#

This turns Shroud into an absolute powerhouse

austere gulch
#

Not sure why its in the thread labeled "Shroud Rework" then

noble vector
austere gulch
left vortex
noble vector
#

No I'm not using any fallacy

austere gulch
#

Enchanter having a lower winrate than Medusa is due to skill issues, not due to actual strength

noble vector
#

Yeah that's why I said I know what u mean about it being stronger LUL

winter escarp
#

And it went from there

noble vector
#

Winrates are not reflective of strength is all I was saying

winter escarp
#

90% of this thread is talking about which is worse; SK or Shroud lol

noble vector
#

I don't want SK to become the complex NK

#

I would rather it be shroud

#

And this fits shroud anyway

#

I still thumbs up this post because I like it as a shroud rework

winter escarp
#

It could go to Werewolf instead realistically

noble vector
#

LUL

winter escarp
#

"Wolf in Sheep's clothing"

noble vector
#

Every NK becomes possessor arc

winter escarp
#

true

#

Keeping SK simple is fine, but SK needs something and Shroud doesn't

austere gulch
#

I'd much rather this go to Shroud than SK

#

Sk needs something

#

But it doesnt need this

#

Why should we slap deceptive abilities on a NK all about consistent kp

#

Shroud is the sneaky NK

#

A sneaky ability would fit it a lot more

#

Remember what happened with Percept

noble vector
#

Yeah

austere gulch
#

When instead of getting put onto a role it fit, it got put on the weakest TI to "balance" it

noble vector
#

100%

stuck dust
#

But if you pull it off, it can be amazing

noble vector
#

Every time this happens where an ability is randomly slapped onto a different role midway through creation
It always ends up with the ability being moved at some point

austere gulch
#

It's strong in any other environment

stuck dust
#

Exactly

noble vector
#

I just don't see why not give this to shroud and give SK something else

austere gulch
#

My point being it doesnt really need changes

austere gulch
#

Don't make the NK category cannibalize each other

winter escarp
austere gulch
#

Like the vanilla TI currently do

austere gulch
#

Your rework on the other server might be okay with some tweaks

stuck dust
noble vector
#

It's not as if we are stuck for ideas on what to do with SK

stuck dust
#

Because of a n1 kill

winter escarp
#

Fair

noble vector
#

SK is supposed to be the base NK really, in my eyes

austere gulch
noble vector
#

That's why I'm opposed to giving it a massively complex ability with lots of nuance and depth that was meant for Shroud

austere gulch
#

They're the two classic NK archetypes

stuck dust
#

What if we just make sk juggernaut fr (This is an awful idea)

austere gulch
#

Uh
Maybe quality-check the description before posting it next time

#

Just copying and pasting feels lazy

stuck dust
#

Who cares, the message gets sent around

austere gulch
#

SK could use a team

stuck dust
#

Bc bloodlust exists

#

I have a few ideas

#

Berserker but can lose it's charges

austere gulch
#

see

#

I don't like bloodlust

stuck dust
#

Or a point based system you can spec into for various buffs to yourself, like detection immunities (this is complex)

austere gulch
#

Remember when I said SK should be the consistent NK

#

The one that always poses a threat to town every night

#

Well, what happens when that so-called Consistent threat gets a kill blocked

#

Where's the bloodlust now

#

It's antithetical to the design

winter escarp
#

SK, after failing to kill due to Barrier or UO, could be Barrier/UO immune until it bypasses it once

austere gulch
#

Because when are you ever going to realistically hit Barrier or UO twice in a game

#

Usually its only going to be once, and you get no benefit

woven schooner
#

I lowkey think they should rework current Bers into a Juggernaut like NK and rework bers / war to not be a Killing role, so it would work with nunny' apoc rework

austere gulch
#

You mean the book of revelation?

woven schooner
#

yeah

winter escarp
#

How about a mechanic where the player that's attacked is constantly passively attacked from then on?

austere gulch
#

Yeah I would like that

woven schooner
#

We could prob just slap current Bers into Juggernaut (NK) and Create a new bers / war from scratch

austere gulch
#

A "bleed" mechanic that passively deals a basic attack to your target each passing night as long as you're alive

#

Would force TP to stay on that target

winter escarp
#

Yeah

austere gulch
woven schooner
#

I have no fucking clue what a Common Town server is

austere gulch
#

Community Testing Server

woven schooner
#

Oh

#

fair

winter escarp
#

The CT Server™️

#

Common Town Server goes hard

alpine patio
woven schooner
#

arso fucking died

clever halo
#

This completely solves the problem of shroud not being unique enough from SK, and always being able to choose your kills is a sizeable buff to the vanilla "shroud" ability.

lusty oyster
clever halo
#

I don't have any problem with this being Shroud and SK getting a different buff. I liked both proposed reworks. I think it fits shroud the best, "lore" be damned.

alpine patio
patent rapids
#

S H O R D

cold plover
tight pier
#

The ToL possessor is real

pallid portal
#

youre just nitpicking for the sake of it

whole grove
#

💀

#

Minor spelling mistake, cancel Tuba on Twitch

noble vector
cold plover
kindred leaf
stuck dust
austere gulch
austere gulch
pallid portal
#

To be a dick yeah

austere gulch
#

???

#

Hang on

pallid portal
#

I just missed a *

austere gulch
#

How does me pointing out a mistake so you can correct it and make your message more professional me being a dick?

#

I was trying to help

#

Dude

pallid portal
#

There was a idea earlier

#

So I just typed like if we go this route its like that

#

And missed a *

austere gulch
#

. _ .

#

I did so because I believed you would change the message so that it would be more accurate and other people wont call you out for it

#

It's better to receive constructive criticism than to be judged for professionalism

#

Does giving that make me a dick?

#

I've never seen someone react this strongly to feedback before

noble vector
austere gulch
cold plover
austere gulch
#

Sorry then

cold plover
austere gulch
#

Ah

#

I forgot about that part honestly. Apologies for that

#

I must have not been in a good headspace when I wrote that

#

Sorry

#

:/

austere gulch
#

But people comment on my posts about mistakes I make all the time

#

I appreciate it

#

I suppose not everyone takes critism the way I do

#

You're right that I could have phrased it better though

#

That was my fault

cold plover
#

but yeah

noble vector
#

I think just not the best choice of words at the end of the day but its allg

delicate saddle
#

@noble vector what if you were instead called Freaky and act like Tuba Antics

whole grove
#

what

delicate saddle
noble vector
cold plover
whole grove
#

btw how does the attacking interact with bouncers

winter escarp
#

Shroud is dealt an Unstoppable Astral Attack if an attack ever bounces

whole grove
olive pike
#

wait... this is very OP. you can just... kill a revealed town power... and just get away with stuff untill they realize.

whole grove
#

Town know's there's a shroud though, so they will know to be wary of it

noble vector
tight pier
#

ToL Possessor taking more Ws

#

Ignoring the fact you can't reasonably impersonate a Mayor but
Details

whole grove
#

Best things to steal are TPows that ran out of ability usage

tight pier
#

That being said this change will almost certainly make Shroud the best NK in the game

#

Is that a problem?
Nah

#

Especially since unlike Possessor it doesn't win at final 4

olive pike
tight pier
#

I have many hours of ToL played

#

Possessor outclassed the 2 KPN SK/Arsonist hybrid

#

Believe me

#

It is so good

noble vector
#

It's not as strong as it was

#

Since everything else got so much more powerful

restive linden
#

bring back arso frames real

stiff hatch
#

I would rather this as its own thing

#

But it could be really good

alpine patio
#

if it was its own thing it would just overshadow shroud

stiff hatch
#

I guess?

#

I’ve always been a shroud defender so idk

olive pike
#

Opinion: rename it to wraith, make it special, and keep shroud. simple.

#

That or shapeshifter

stiff hatch
#

Shapesifter13 reference

clever halo
#

Real

clever halo
# stiff hatch I would rather this as its own thing

Jokes aside, Shroud is not nearly as bad as people say (it's on par with SK, this is not All Any) but the rework will improve it in every conceivable way and make it actually unique to play.

A lot less dependent on "do I play guess visits or do I give up on my power to just attack"

olive pike
austere gulch
#

This has reminded me

quasi moss
#

I haven't read this yet but I read the first part and...old Disguiser.

noble vector
quasi moss
#

I'm not a huge fan of Controlling NKs

#

I feel like that ability should be restricted to Coven

quasi moss
#

because Banshee

#

Wraith x Banshee when

quasi moss
clever halo
quasi moss
#

you still force your target's night action

#

and force them to use it on a specific player

#

it's just that there is no cooldown

tight pier
#

no you dont

#

you make them secretly kill someone inaddition to whatever they were doing

#

they have no idea they committed a murder

#

its literally just the shroud killing someone but making that person the actual killer mechanically

clever halo
quasi moss
#

what?

teal peak
#

seeing this so late lol, this is such an interesting concept, and honestly I love it

shell sail
#

POV shroud rework (I dont mind I really enjoy Possessor as an NK)

loud nexus
#

I think this would be epic and would make Shroud more interesting

cold plover
#

maybe something like this for a list around these roles?

#

(if sk gets disguise)

cold plover
noble vector
noble vector
#

oh ic ic

#

no thoughts then?

cold plover
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

it's cool but ppl don't make good lists

noble vector
#

I mean, that's why I'd hope it's the good ideas which get in each week but yanno

#

Nothing says one person can't just keep suggesting banger lists

#

Anyway I am hijacking this thread now soz

cold plover
noble vector
pallid portal
#

Serial Killer (Neutral Killing)

Attack :Basic
Defense : Basic

Attack (Infinite)
Deal a Basic attack to your target.

Disguise (1️⃣)

  • Once per game, kill a player. You will steal their identity for the rest of the game.
  • You will fake your own death, your old body appearing as a role of your choosing, and using your own last will. You can select the role during the day as well.
  • Your ability will be canceled if you die, or your target dies before you can disguise as them.

Attributes:
You are Roleblock Immune.

#

If this idea were to be added to SK

noble vector
#

This being for SK has grown on me honestly so

whole grove
#

smh do some quality control

#

smhsmh

pallid portal
noble vector
#

LMFAO

whole grove
#

So would SK need to be the only killer of their target to successfully do it?

pallid portal
#

The reason for me to write that is theres a good amount of people like current Shroud but no one likes Bloodlust lol

noble vector
#

That's how its written anyway

whole grove
#

Imagine a 3 TPow game and then 3 SKs body swap with the TPows

noble vector
#

So based

#

based SKs

whole grove
noble vector
#

I like the theming of it more

#

Serial Killers in real life are usually more crafty so they don't get caught
It doesn't make sense to me for SK to be like BLOODLUST KILL EVERYONE RAAAH like bro u gonna get caught smh

#

Also Werewolf is BLOODLUST KILL EVERYONE RAAAHHH so

pallid portal
#

yea SK being same as werewolf

#

does not make sense at all

noble vector
#

I do agree as well that SK needs change more than shroud

whole grove
#

I do wonder though if the disguise ability is good enough for the role or if it should have something extra

noble vector
#

Disguise is good imo

whole grove
#

I can imagine it being a bit stressful to have to copy the will of like a confirmed TI or something

fathom horizon
#

copypasting from tos1 should be added

fathom horizon
pallid portal
#

how copying the will of a conf ti

#

it will leave your own will

#

so you can fake the will

#

during the game

noble vector
#

I did want SK to be shrimple but, this is modded so it doesn't matter as much

fathom horizon
#

i am in no condition to discuss balance i dont think

whole grove
#

I'm not sure either what that meant

pallid portal
#

it will use your own last will when you jump bodies

#

unlike og disg

whole grove
#

So how do you copy the will of the body you just hopped into

pallid portal
#

you acquire it

whole grove
#

cool

pallid portal
#

the games gonna give it to u

whole grove
#

should mention that

fathom horizon
#

huh.

#

cool

winter escarp
#

I remember when I made a "Neutral Special Disguiser" role and someone said the role wouldn't work because people will say slurs or something

#

And I thought it was funny that they thought the role will work without that

pallid portal
#

I did realize our report system can adapt to that

winter escarp
#

That's neat

noble vector
#

The new report system was one of the reasons for this idea cropping up right?

#

Its super advanced any of yall who break rules are gonna get omegabaned in 1 nanosecond

winter escarp
#

Can't wait to type Cl*sterfuck and get banned

past pebble
#

Lurker mods on their way to ban you in record time

#

(Not saying its a bad thing ofc)

winter escarp
#

It's a horrible thing 😢
I want to make death threats and screams slurs in peace.

past pebble
#

Death threats should only be justified as Death /s

cold plover
pallid portal
#

no

cold plover
#

i see

#

poss gaming

pallid portal
#

if that turns out to be too problematic we can just make it kill coven or apocs without jumping

cold plover
winter escarp
#

Imagine if Coven attacks and Stones you the same night you Disguise

delicate saddle
#

is "kill a player" basic attack or

pallid portal
#

yea

delicate saddle
#

oh okay

cold plover
winter escarp
#

Kill a Player has an attack value of None

delicate saddle
#

i was thinking it would be funny if you decide to straight up kill a confirmed monarch and steal their identity after they knighted 2 person

#

albeit that could work with other tpows out of charge too

winter escarp
#

If it was powerful it'd be a bit too dumb

cold plover
winter escarp
#

Me when I use Disguise on a Serial Killer

cold plover
fathom horizon
noble vector
dire pagoda
#

I can forward stuff

noble vector
#

Everything is a skill issue

cold plover
#

Honestly sk having the disguise makes it a lot better than just stealing what ww does

dire pagoda
#

I do kinda like the idea of shroud forcing other people to kill for it

cold plover
dire pagoda
#

I think shroud would already be way better off if both the shroud ability and the basic attack were replaced with that

dire pagoda
cold plover
fathom horizon
#

i mean i just dont like bodysnatching cuz i dont think there should be doubt that the person youre talking to is the person you think youre talking to

dire pagoda
#

why not?

dire pagoda
#

boxes

cold plover
#

not mine

#

it's parceval's

fathom horizon
cold plover
#

(ok im not serious)

dire pagoda
#

I mean, it is a reason

cold plover
#

but still

dire pagoda
#

it may not be a very good one

#

but it's a valid reason

dire pagoda
fathom horizon
dire pagoda
#

especially in a game meant to be balanced around so much confirmability

cold plover
#

it's good that the confirmed deputy might be evil

noble vector
#

Socially it does the same thing as conversion, but without the headache conversion brings

noble vector
#

My point is

#

You can’t convert evils for a reason

#

And the one role that can, Jackal, we have to moderate it for foul play LUL

cold plover
noble vector
#

Mhm

cold plover
#

your baker is now my property

noble vector
#

SK jumping to evils would be funny

stiff hatch
noble vector
#

They must have been playing well for that to happen

noble vector
cold plover
#

in smth like PJR

noble vector
#

OR IN A COMMUNITY MADE LIST ADDED BY- no

#

Anyway tho LUL

delicate saddle
noble vector
#

Oh coven/apoc aligned SK would be so fun holy

cold plover
#

except arso ig?

cold plover
#

poor arso

noble vector
#

Arso still has a good winrate tbf

#

But it’s undeniably weaker

#

It was a MONSTER in tos 1

#

But yeah WW and SK lacking winrate wise

cold plover
#

mafia had to rely on 1 role to shut it down

#

consort

#

now coven has like

#

4

loud nexus
#

wait so

noble vector
#

Myeah

loud nexus
#

how does this work if shroud is recruited

noble vector
#

Coven can straight up kill Arso or outpace them

loud nexus
#

and shroud possesses another player

cold plover
noble vector
#

Same as normal?

cold plover
#

right

loud nexus
#

does the other rec just die

noble vector
#

You aren’t changing alignments so

noble vector
cold plover
#

I thought sk was getting possess :c

winter escarp
#

Other rec also possesses someone real

loud nexus
noble vector
#

You don’t actually die

loud nexus
#

right

cold plover
#

your body dies, your role doesn't

#

basically

noble vector
#

Oops sorry tubald didn’t mean to ping

whole grove
#

Wait so what happens if you kill a recruit and steal their body, does the other recruit just die without a second recruit death?

noble vector
cold plover
whole grove
#

Role of choice

noble vector
whole grove
cold plover
winter escarp
#

Can't wait for Pestilence to die to Serial Killer

whole grove
#

Day UI

noble vector
cold plover
#

Hmm

winter escarp
#

Yeah it's probably the exact same UI as Enchanter

#

It'd work fine

cold plover
noble vector
#

Tbf it’s a disguise

#

You fake your own death

#

That’s why u can choose

whole grove
noble vector
#

Steal someone else’s identity

winter escarp
#

What would happen if your target is immune/was saved?

cold plover
#

sk commits stab and disguises as someone else

winter escarp
#

Do you get your Disguise back?

cold plover
#

wonderful

whole grove
#

You get the disguise back

cold plover
noble vector
winter escarp
#

Aight

whole grove
#

Would be annoying if the only thing that made your role special got wasted

winter escarp
#

Indeed that's why I inquired

cold plover
#

stab

#

disguise

#

repeat

noble vector
winter escarp
#

😱

noble vector
cold plover
noble vector
#

INQUIS SPOTTED

winter escarp
#

😢

noble vector
#

No defense guilty

whole grove
#

I'm imagining an SK just taunting the town while disguising by having their will be "haha im in a different body now good luck"

winter escarp
#

Colon Dee

noble vector
#

Oh shit it was jester

noble vector
#

Gosh darn it

winter escarp
winter escarp
#

[Serial Killer] Out on Bail

"Get voted innocent on trial, and Disguise as someone the next night."

cold plover
#

when will we stop stealing from tol

#

never?

whole grove
#

Time to do a 1f1 as a seer and then hop out, while town then lynches the second player in your will after you "die"

noble vector
cold plover
#

possess is an obvious copy tho

noble vector
#

Tbf that is not a concept unique to tol