True!
#Apocalypse Rework
mystic mist
upbeat blade
I meant unable to ability night 1 instead of increasing soul capacity
mystic mist
I did think about that but that's a good solution
elfin lark
I meant unable to ability night 1 *instead* of increasing soul capacity
Unable to ability Night 1 But keep the 0/7 or to make it back to 0/6??
upbeat blade
Unable to ability Night 1 But keep the 0/7 or to make it back to 0/6??
0/6 instead of 0/7 but cant ability night 1
elfin lark
;-;
I don't see any difference with this
upbeat blade
difference is with 0/7 if kill is missed somehow you're just down a soul for no reason but with 0/6 if n1 kill is missed you are not down a soul
elfin lark
Death is still gonna come out D5
upbeat blade
TLDR less reliance on bad luck
elfin lark
I mean SC won't frame.
But other than that Death still comes out on D5 ;-;
So I don't see any difference
upbeat blade
I mean SC won't frame.
But other than that Death still comes out on D5 ;-;
So I ...
0/6 with no ability n1 possibilities:
Get kill, 1/6
No killl, 1/6
0/7 with ability n1 possibilities:
Get kill, 2/7
No kill, 1/7
elfin lark
0/6 with no ability n1 possibilities:
Get kill, 1/6
No killl, 1/6
0/7 with abili...
I see
upbeat blade
0/6 with no ability n1 possibilities:
Get kill, 1/6
No killl, 1/6
0/7 with abili...
Difference is 0/6 with no ability is more consistent on n12
*n1
mystic mist
oh but only potential issue with this, now you can't get frames going from N1
mystic mist
Ooga booga
topaz veldt
Ooga booga
is it possible to make SC / Warlock only frame n1 but not gain charges until n2
mystic mist
is it possible to make SC / Warlock only frame n1 but not gain charges until n2
Possibly but I think it would be a bit confusing tbh
wispy lichen
just increase soul requirments
topaz veldt
Possibly but I think it would be a bit confusing tbh
True
mystic mist
Yeah I think it’s the simplest way
It does come with the whole “oh what if RBd” drawback but like
I think SC already has a very strong best case
topaz veldt
I think a Berserker rework is not needed
After all, it is made for Apocalypse primary, not Pandora
mystic mist
And with this change worst case is very difficult to get
topaz veldt
Pandora is a modifier, Apocalypse is Berserker's actual faction
So apoc shouldn't be balanced around their pandora forms
mystic mist
What if berserker’s ability is to amplify kills instead so it works better with this
topaz veldt
What if berserker’s ability is to amplify kills instead so it works better with ...
huhhh?
mystic mist
So your current power level
topaz veldt
So your current power level
it's over 9000
mystic mist
You apply that to attacks against the target you choose
topaz veldt
You apply that to attacks against the target you choose
I am not understanding
mystic mist
I’ll write it in a bit
topaz veldt
I think just make Berserker hold the Necronomicon first
mystic mist
Walking up a hill rn
topaz veldt
just make Berserker #1 priority on the Revelation and Necronomicon
obviously the Necronomicon takes priority
mystic mist
Also with this change
I feel like alt acolytes might be more on the table?
If we ever got more full on horseman I feel like they would be Apoc special
topaz veldt
If we ever got more full on horseman I feel like they would be Apoc special
We can't due to lore
topaz veldt
(technically tos1 coven could not gain any members but they did that anyway :D)
mystic mist
We gotta work around it
topaz veldt
It is 4 Horsemen
mystic mist
Special can break the rules imo
But yeah anyway
Alt acolytes will prob be the main form of variety
My only question is how tf do you make an alt acolyte of current bers
topaz veldt
My only question is how tf do you make an alt acolyte of current bers
You don't
You make a Famine and Pest one first
then uh
yeahhhhh
mayb make it similar to another tos1 role
Bers = Jugg?
wispy lichen
What if berserker’s ability is to amplify kills instead so it works better with ...
or backup mechanics
topaz veldt
you give me a bit i'll try and cook a bers alt
the problem is
you literally can't
how do you make a killing role fit apoc
elfin lark
it's over 9000
OVER 9000? CHECK IT AGAIN
slim relic
My only question is how tf do you make an alt acolyte of current bers
i just got an idea but the issue is that it would just be a better soul collector 
topaz veldt
i just got an idea but the issue is that it would just be a better soul collecto...
what is it
slim relic
what is it
actually nvm ill post it
i came up with a different idea that might make it work better
elfin lark
You don't
You make a Famine and Pest one first
Here is the Famine idea ;-;
flour miller (Bakers alternative)
Attack : None
Defence : None
Abilities
Flour
Baking the bread
Bread
Flour (Inifinity) (Night ability)
You may choose to Visit 2 players at night giving them a flour
Baking the bread (Infinity) (night ability)
You may choose to visit the target with "Flour" to bake them a bread
Bread (Infinity) (Secondary Night ability)
You may choose which Bread targets will receive upon "Baking the bread".
If you choose to give 2 players a bread they will receive the one you picked.
Attributes :
You can become "The prophet" gaining basic attack
You will be seen visting the players you give "Flour" or/and "Bake the bread"
Players with Bread starve slower when Famine begins
You are Roleblock immune
Famine stays the same
@mystic mist !
mystic mist
Here is the Famine idea ;-;
flour miller (Bakers alternative)
Attack : None
Def...
It doesn't have any utility tho?
I think that's worse than baker no?
elfin lark
You want aditional button with the bread choosing?
like 2 RBs in one night :-:
I can add that rly quick
mystic mist
It doesn't say it rbs right now does it?
elfin lark
I mean when People get Bread They will receive one of the effect the bread you will choose
Like You can reveal 2 roles in one night
or RB 2 roles
or put shield on 2 Roles
Changed it
I forgot the names for bread tho ;-;
elfin lark
@mystic mist Do a poll for my role please !
mystic mist
pardon?
Ohh icic
Well, I don't want this suggestion to become too bloated. If you wanna suggest alt acolytes, it would be a good idea to make your own suggestion imo
elfin lark
Okay !
elfin lark
Well, I don't want this suggestion to become too bloated. If you wanna suggest a...
Do I keep "You may become the prophet" tho?
elfin lark
! got it
mystic mist
This isn't guaranteed to get in anyway obvs
But your idea could get in on its own so
frosty socketBOT
@mystic mist has leveled up! (35 ➜ 36)
mystic mist
Thanks tatsu
wicked igloo
<@571442138685112341> has leveled up! **(35 ➜ 36)**
@mystic mist
wicked igloo
UR STALKING
ITS CAUSE U GOT ME IN THIS THREAD SO NOW ITS OPEN
mystic mist
LUL
mystic mist
GUH
wicked igloo
We can go back
tame mango
Hihi
wicked igloo
tame mango
Nooo
mystic mist
wicked igloo
Fig
mystic mist
wicked igloo
https://tenor.com/view/pikmin-yellow-pikmin-pikmin-bloom-halloween-jack-o%27lant...
I need to save this when I get to computer
topaz veldt
GWAURGH?
tame mango
mystic mist
GWAURGH
elfin lark
kindred light
@mystic mistshut up wubbox-ass
mystic mist
kindred light
<:SadgeBitch:1146144901722013798>
not even a Poewk. You're pathethic
mystic mist
not even a Poewk. You're pathethic
merry scarab
craggy hound
Bro just make it if bers banned/guaranteed not to appear then do this
mystic mist
Bers has to be banned in half of the modes
I think it would just be awkward
“You have like this necronomicon thing BUT ONLY if there isn’t this one like NK role that spawns in your faction then you don’t have it actually but if you do have it because the NK isn’t there then it does x and y and z”
elfin lark
mystic mist
woven bloom
Then why not call it the seals, they determine the order of the Apocalypses and are broken when each apoc is summoned
woven bloom
Conquest
CONQUEST IS REAL
Yes it is
Look at pestilence image
And read this
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer
Revelations 6:2
elfin lark
Then why not call it the seals, they determine the order of the Apocalypses and ...
We would need to make each apoc transform D3/D4/D5/D6 regardless if their goal was completed or nah
elfin lark
Revelations 6:2
I read Revelation like 2 months ago ;-;
woven bloom
No this would be more to do with an idea I saw someone suggest a bit higher up where the prophet decides what order the apocalypse sines. Before I realised how much more was written
Cool
elfin lark
Still doesn't solves the problem where PB casually Transforms before Death cause no one Is visiting ;-;
woven bloom
That is the order in revelations yea
It’s a game
We want fun
Not biblical accuracy
elfin lark
To make it more biblical like I made this
woven bloom
*necciceraly
elfin lark
It’s a game
Yea and with fun comes balance
woven bloom
Indeed
elfin lark
no one wants Famine D3 ;-;
woven bloom
INDEED
elfin lark
Not biblical accuracy
The vanilla isn't even biblically accurate since Conquest is "pestilence"
woven bloom
The apocalypse transforming in order makes the most sense game wise
woven bloom
The vanilla isn't even biblically accurate since Conquest is "pestilence"
Yup
Why not have the seals help the current apoc transform faster
merry scarab
The vanilla isn't even biblically accurate since Conquest is "pestilence"
they are interchangeable iirc
woven bloom
Then passed along
elfin lark
The apocalypse transforming in order makes the most sense game wise
Apocalypse on it's way to Make
Pest
Death
Famine Transform D4
woven bloom
they are interchangeable iirc
Some people consider famine to also be pest
elfin lark
Why not have the seals help the current apoc transform faster
Whacha suggesting
woven bloom
It’s how it’s interpreted
elfin lark
I interpret Pest like in OT was in Exodus
woven bloom
Whacha suggesting
Pb gets seals first, they help them transform faster. Then Berz gets it. Then Baker. Then Sc/warlock.
They would probably need to be rebalanced around a speed up tho
elfin lark
we have to make Bers somehow get transform Progress without getting kills then
woven bloom
Maybe rampage kills count to the counter with seals
elfin lark
"with seal You may visit 2 Targets"
woven bloom
Pest could get free infections
I think multiple targets is hard to code
Otherwise it would work for pb and berz
merry scarab
we have to make Bers somehow get transform Progress without getting kills then
https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1245088929057865840 wouldnt be a bad solution to the bers problem
woven bloom
Hmm
woven bloom
Sure
merry scarab
so issue is solved
woven bloom
It would basically make war transform directly after Pb
Should we make a different thread to continue this
?
elfin lark
Mayby
woven bloom
It’s kinda deviations from the original
supple sundial
burtis will delete you from existence
mint stump
How would this affect pandora
fervent sluice
pandora gets the bombinomicon
elfin lark
posted the entire book of revelation in TubaAntics server
I do not believe you
wispy lichen
I do not believe you
i can confirm gabb did
elfin lark
Where screen shot ;-;
dapper dawn
I wanna see it
wispy lichen
its not really a dump of revelations and more of an analaysis
its in one of my apoc threads
elfin lark
name?
unborn otter
Ghost bump
true kindle
The voting system is gonna make AJR interesting
harsh sorrel
Necro(mancer) bump. Something I think would've been interesting for Apocalypse if we're leaning further towards a full-on faction like Coven, was adding a Necronomicon-esque system.
Now you'd be asking why I am saying this when it's been suggested many times. See I have a different idea. How would it play out if a horseman had to hold the "book" to use their abilities?
Let's say if both Pestilence and Famine were alive at the same time: If Pestilence was holding the "book", Famine's abilities would be disabled but they still retain their Invincible Defense. If Famine gets passed the "book" on the next night, Pestilence gets disabled instead.
Something like this will make multiple horsemen a lot less oppressive when the other factions lack the tools to kill the horsemen fast enough.
What about the acolytes? They could just use the "book" to attack similar to the Necronomicon. Their abilities are nowhere near the level of their horseman counterparts.
What about Death? In its current state, force Death to be passed the "book" on the day it transforms so it becomes a priority target for everyone without delay.
loud onyx
Necro(mancer) bump. Something I think would've been interesting for Apocalypse i...
that makes roles too slow
you basically have to full send one transformation the entire time
and most of the time transformations fail
you need 3 nights for baker, 5 for SC, and 1-11/14 nights for PB
you arent gonna be able to have a fighting chance after the first attempt fails
lost quest
What if bers is the one marked as Prophet but n1 kills dont count towards bers transformation?
odd wing
Wow this was revived
I have not seen this yet hmm
Anyways
We could technically disable the n1 kill
next cipher
Cont Planning my beloved
wispy lichen
bumping bers up a night would be nice
final raven
This kind of just sounds like stronger coven...?
Maybe as a modifier
The post itself kind of admits it's a really unnatural combo with how it turns off the moment one of them transforms 🩹🩹🩹
It's also a weird attack. Bodyguard stops it but does it not visit, being some kind of weird interceptable-astral attack? Does Crusader stop it? It's all very weird.
brisk goblet
I would assume they visit the target
SC should still be 7 imo unless the slow the game down significantly
simple oracle
It's also a weird attack. Bodyguard stops it but does it not visit, being some k...
I'd say it visits but camouflaged to tracker/LO
that'd be a way to put it
next cipher
This kind of just sounds like stronger coven...?
It is
Anyone who knows my opinions on faction design should know why I dislike this
It shares the same centralizing factors as Coven
Meaning that it has no real identity outside of being a stronger variant
Having a CF is better than not having one (as current Apoc does)
But at least make it unique
final raven
I can only see this maybe being a modifier for special modes
hexed falcon
Apocalypse should be solo, and as a faction they act very weirdly, as an apocalypse job is to reach their condition to transform, not to slowly kill and gain majority, so with 4 apoc their are 4 tranform conditions as well as getting majority which goes away with berserker dead. so getting majority is really jest Berserkers win con. If any apocalypse transformes with even just 1 other apocalypse alive they become incredabley overpowerded, adding the Necronomicon to Apocalypse makes majority the way to win, with all the extra advantages Apocalypse teams get
And Soul Collector with this addition is legit the dumbest role ever
glossy prism
I am indifferent to this in my opinion, Apocalypse here is what Apocalypse could be and that shouldn't change but for Vanilla they can stay solo as long as they are given the buffs and tweaks needed but for right now it's not looking too promising.
upbeat blade
Apocalypse should be solo, and as a faction they act very weirdly, as an apocaly...
Pb actually shares berserker's wincon; they both win from getting voting majority through night kills. Also, if you think SC with book is dumb, look at current baker, which does more as an acolyte, and transforms a day earlier.
brisk goblet
Apocalypse should be solo, and as a faction they act very weirdly, as an apocaly...
so you adjust the roles to work in this meta instead of throwing a book at them
Baker needs a rework regardless. It's too underpowered in the mode it is designed for (ranked) and too overpowered with a faction.
harsh sorrel
Baker as the role isn't overpowered in a faction to be honest. Famine is what's broken in a faction; especially if you have a Berserker.
cyan pecan
Who nercored this post
glossy prism
we need apocalypse necronomicon 🔥 🔥
harsh sorrel
This was Necromancer'd a while ago
harsh sorrel
we need apocalypse necronomicon 🔥 🔥
Apoc definitely needs the flexible kill power imo. Having Berserker be their only KPN sucks.
glossy prism
Yeah true
harsh sorrel
I wouldn't mind changing Berserker to have a Basic Attack, which gets upgraded to a Powerful Attack after the first kill N2 onwards.
You'd be able to allow Berseker to attack N1 without making War transformations too fast
glossy prism
the ability to flip off neutrals is annoying so yeah
harsh sorrel
For N1 at least. Have the N1 kill not count toward their upgrade path.
So it goes N1: Basic Attack, N2: Basic Attack, N3: Powerful Attack: N4: Powerful Rampage Attack, N5: War
And it goes nicely with Soul Collector's 7 soul requirement in non-Pandora games.
maiden brook
The Berserker's second attack is supposed to allow them to attack on non-full moon nights, but it was changed in BTOS because some modes (ATT) have Bers as the only killing power and a guaranteed person with Powerful Defense (NP)
merry scarab
idk
dapper dawn
Clearly it was you and we must ban you
mystic mist
who bumped this 😭
Murdock lol
karmic sable
Murdock lol
NO WAY 
mystic mist
karmic sable
@everyone the return
gusty vortex
mystic mist
merry scarab
hexed falcon
This is a bad idea, but if its added, make SC not be able to get reap from the kill, which just makes it stupid in any apoc faction list, but like otherwise its completly broken on team or ussless solo, so youd have to remove reap (from gaining charges)
lost quest
Necromancerssss🙄🙄🙄
mint stump
https://tenor.com/view/tomascore-horse-horsey-hatsune-miku-horsune-miku-gif-4484...
Hatsune mikhorse
hexed falcon
wicked igloo
who bumped this 😭
Yeah sorry to everyone about this, pinged nuggy but didn’t realise it wasn’t general so made a mistake and deleted it. Apologies to all inconvenienced
mystic mist
Banned !!!
glossy prism
wicked igloo
Banned !!!
D: