Thraex - Berserker Alt

[royal river]

This role is intended for if alts for all apocolypse were added.

TL; DR - Scrapped doom change/Pirate hybrid

Inspired by a recent Glafiator suggestion that I cannot find again to link.

The name is a type of Roman gladiator that fought with a curved sword, and the name of the ability is the Roman name for a duel between two gladiators.

Attack: Powerful
Defense: Basic

Control/Roleblock immune: Yes
Detection immune: Yes

Munus ( ☀️):

• Cannot be used on day 1

• Select two players during the day to compete against each other in a munus the following night

• You cannot select a player for two munera in a row

• Each player receives a pirate-like menu, with two options: Spare ( 👍 ), or Kill ( 👎 ) - a confirmation button finalises a contestant's choice

• The selection made determines the opponents fate, where the Thraex performs any kills

• However, if both players choose to spare, the Thraex shall kill both contestants

• If the Thraex kills both people, they may not use Munus during the following day

• The contestants in the munus are placed into an anonymous night chat, with messages showing up as "Gladiator:"

• The Thraex is notified when people make their final choice, and is able to view the night chat, but cannot speak in it

• Participating in a munus does not roleblock, rather once their choice has been made the window closes and they may access their usual interface

• Once 4 people have died to the Thraex, they transform into War

• The Thraex's kills are not astral, and are considered visits for all intents and purposes, including tracking, bodyguard, etc. - both visits may be seen.

• Berserker and Thraex kill messages in the WDAH phase are replaced with "They were killed by an acolyte of War", for a small amount of anonymity

N.B. This maintains equal average kpn and transformation speed as Berserker.

[floral cave]

christ alive whats with people and this fucked up uncontrollable way of bers alts killing

why must there be alts

and why must they be so needless

[royal river]

There doesn't have to be alts - the issue is if an alt is to be created, say for example if warlock's example grew to all apocolypse, how do you give a seperate flavour than just killing? I agree that its less controllable, but likely more powerful - for example, if you pick a NP, they can just pick kill and automatically kill whomever is the other contestant because of their powerful defense - also, the strategy is more of Doomsayer's in that you want to work out which pairings will maximise your killing potential

[floral cave]

the thing is you cant

youre stuck in a rock and a hard place

either the alts are superior/inferior or just add nothing to apoc

variety on its own means nothing

[royal river]

I would argue having unique alts, with differences like warlock and soul collector, converge into the same role and filling the same general utility to apoc would make the faction feel more like a faction?
Similar to your (i think it was yours?) apocolypse cult, trying to have effectively buckets for the roles

I do see what you mean with your point though

[floral cave]

my cult gives each role their own niche

no role shares the same job

alchemist handles tpows and day abilities

puppeteer is witch

alû is a visit denial role

[royal river]

I see how killing is hard to do that with, yes

[dark sky]

#1238539117034213437 there's the link

[dark sky]

Gladiators kills ARE controllable just saying

[royal river]

I saw that one, i was meaning a different gladiator one where the first target got the option to kill the second- but nonetheless your one did also inspire this :)

[floral cave]

the fucking shroud?

yeah no

id rather not have super shroud on a faction

[dark sky]

or just make shroud better

[floral cave]

shroud being better doesnt change the fact gladiators still super shroud

[dark sky]

because it's not super shroud when it only makes attackers when shroud should affect TI, BG, and Trapper

[dark sky]

shroud being better literally means it wouldn't be shroud lmao

[floral cave]

it gets a war transformation

thats what makes it super shroud

[dark sky]

Which it then loses it's old ability

[floral cave]

and??

[dark sky]

Meaning it is no longer similar to shroud

[floral cave]

its got 2 rampaging

[floral cave]

its base ability is still super shroud

[dark sky]

War shouldn't have rampage 🤷

[dark sky]

if you make shroud better it's not

and even then abilities WILL overlap

you say there's no risk to Gladiator when in reality there's tons of it because you aren't astral

[floral cave]

buddy i made a better version of shroud

and gladiators still super shroud

[dark sky]

the witch one?

see how those overlap lol

[floral cave]

buddy your visits are completely safe

[dark sky]

LO Tracker Trapper

[floral cave]

and?

only if lo and trapper combo will they catch you

[dark sky]

so they're not completely safe

what

[floral cave]

they cant see you visit a dead guy

[dark sky]

Invest percept

[dark sky]

shroud doesn't visit either

[floral cave]

someone else is doing the killing for you

[dark sky]

what

[floral cave]

shroud does

[dark sky]

and then you confirm it's a glad game and that person is a hard conf townie

and at worst they're tt

[floral cave]

its just in a fucked up state of superposition where it simultaneously doesnt and does visit at the same time

[dark sky]

they can then directly try and kill whoever they want dead

[floral cave]

and?

thats just attacking

[dark sky]

giving a townie the ability to kill other people usually results in them killing weak townies

so that you keep your good roles

[floral cave]

gladiator has completely safe visits, a team to fall back on, a transformation

[dark sky]

you are also countered by cleric since a cleric can just heal whoever they visit

[floral cave]

shroud literally has some minor deception and astral

[dark sky]

now is that a problem with the NK role or the concept

[floral cave]

concept

[dark sky]

because it sounds like the solo NK should be better

[floral cave]

it doesnt

[dark sky]

to rival said role

[floral cave]

gladiator has all the powers of an nk

with a team

[dark sky]

that's all apoc

[floral cave]

yeah but at least those guys dont plagiarize an already existing nks kit

[edgy tinsel]

Soul Collector's life is going to be hell.

but like, you do not choose who you are killing, this can be bad for fishing season when Town chooses who you kill.

Like, they can frametrap you into a Bodyguard and they will always force you into the worse of the two targets.

[dark sky]

and besides even if it wasn't super shroud and it did the attacking itself without trigger traps/BG instead of the target dying for the Glads actions

you'd still try and say it's a better shroud or some shit cause it doesn't get punished

[floral cave]

no i wouldnt

id say its a fucked up role who turns tps into villagers

[dark sky]

the tp would protect their target

meaning you should actively avoid picking tps

[floral cave]

you said it bypasses bg and trap

[dark sky]

trap wouldn't kill

[royal river]

But only if they coordinate, and tell each other their numbers - however, i genuinely did originally write "You cannot die to bodyguards or trappers that you pick as contestants" or similar

[dark sky]

BG wouldn't trigger

you would still see whose visiting as Trapper

[floral cave]

so bypasses

[dark sky]

which is fine?

[royal river]

Oh, and Soul Collector shouldn't rely on allied kills anyway imo

[dark sky]

at worst you can make BG prevent the attack and die

with no other deaths

[dark sky]

no role should rely on another

[royal river]

Well agreed

[dark sky]

combos should exist but there shouldn't be a world where A has to rely on B or A will never fully get to use their ability

[royal river]

Yea - soul collector's reliance on bers is an issue with soul collector, not bers or its alts

[edgy tinsel]

You are also completely unable to harm revealed TPOWs

[royal river]

Again, only if you pick two townies

and they coordinate

[edgy tinsel]

brother hold on a minute

Why would you not pick two townies to kill in ApocTT?

[royal river]

Because, you pick your np and revealed TPOW. The np sets the tpow to die, and thats that, you can't kill the np

This is assuming you have to deal with revealed tpow whilst not transformed too, which isn't common common

[dark sky]

you have to find the np first for this to work

which is fine

You shouldn't be able to choose the same person twice in a row

[royal river]

Look again :)

[royal river]

This probably needs a pin - do I ping nunny here?

[dark sky]

oh

then this is fine

[dark sky]

ye probably

[royal river]

@noble sparrow could I get a pin here please?

[edgy tinsel]

I see. It's still weird to have to find NP specifically just to get someone I guess. But actually now that I think of it I take that back, can't you just use your town traitor?

[royal river]

Oh yea you can - good thought

[edgy tinsel]

Yeah, completely slipped my mind though. The issue is it's a bit of a risk

Revealed marsh does not know the NP, how can you convince marsh to spare anyone

Even with anonymous chat

[royal river]

I agree its risky yea - I could do a second 2-use night ability that's just a direct attack or smth?

[edgy tinsel]

Wait a second, we're getting the Thraex password

"Code boneless pizza, I am the real Seer. Vote spare, I have to kill you"

[royal river]

The hidden tpow they've been put against:

Or alternatively, just allow the Thraex to view the chat but not type in it

[edgy tinsel]

Yeah, when TPOW reveals, trusted Town give the secret password in whispers imo

[royal river]

Ty nunny :)

Edited now so the night chat is visible - thraex can prevent the code by communicating it to their team now

maybe?

[edgy tinsel]

Not really, it would be communicated in whispers then used in fight night

I think changing passwords every day might be a bit of a hassle though

[royal river]

Do you reckon a 1 use night kill is sensible then, as a backup?