#Coven Catalyst - Coven Power

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magic grotto
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Coven catalyst - Coven Power.

Offense - none

Defense - none

Abilities: Unholy boost.

Unholy Boost: boost a coven members abilities, effect varies between each coven. Select which coven you want to boost during the day. 3 charges.

Boosted Cl: Will have both basic defense and powerful attack as well as rampaging attacks.

Boosted Witch: Control 2 people, one of them will have blood.

Boosted pmer: Can use 2 potions at once

Boosted illu: All coven show up as inno for 1/2 nights

Boosted jinx: You will not be seen while prowling at a house, and kill one extra visitor to your target.

Boosted Pois: will give poisoned status that night, and doesn’t use up a charge.

Boosted Medusa: Gain the ability to stone gaze at your own house, visiting people will be stoned. (tos1 reference)

Boosted hex master: Hex 2 ppl per night.

Boosted Conj: Gains another meteor charge or just recharges it if it’s already been used

Boosted Rit: If you guess someone wrong, your role isn’t revealed and the role of that person gets revealed to the coven.

Boosted Dreamweaver: Immediately makes their target insane.

Boosted Necromancer: Can re-use old corpses or Raise 2 people, can’t raise more than one person with basic attack.

Boosted voodoo master: Can silence 2 people, if the vm has book, only attacks one player you plan to silence

Boosted Wildling: Sense one person, the next night you listen in on there night chat if they have one. Mentioned players and numbers show up as ???

Boosted catalyst - Call upon the power of Any coven role that isn’t in the role list (If it’s a medusa witch poisoner catalyst game, can’t use medusa witch or poisoner) and use it for one night, all coven roles can’t be used for the next night, coven power roles can’t be used for the next-next night.

Catalyst gets the Necronomicon last.

magic grotto
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Coven Catalyst - Coven Power

radiant agate
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...Interesting. Though, I do feel like it should have SOMETHING for itself, in the unfortunate case of Solo Coven.

barren oyster
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empowerment role. hell no

magic grotto
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adding it now

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done

radiant agate
dusky knoll
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the problem with a concept like this is that the benefits for the coven roles are too different

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like these vary from kinda eh to just ridiculously broken

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why are there so many powerful attacks and rampage

barren oyster
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unique empowerment like this is a shitty concept

dusky knoll
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like it literally swings so hard from stuff like "use 2 potions at once" to stuff like "get actual ww stats with full rampage"

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hex master's boost

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enough said

barren oyster
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this role is fucking horrible

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i dont get how denver thinks this is balanced

radiant agate
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That's how I think it's balanced, in the like:dislike:real:teams ratio. :)

barren oyster
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second off: youve mentioned nothing about the role

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if you dont intend to ever be constructive and only wish to play devils advocate dont vote on any suggestion

radiant agate
barren oyster
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what about the role tho

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why do you think its good

radiant agate
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It's certainly an interesting and unique idea, but some of the Boosted effects could probably use some adjustments to keep them in line. I'll see if I can make a new list.

barren oyster
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some adjustments?

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theres fucking rampage everywhere

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powerful attacks everywhere

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more kills

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double silencing

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infinite poisons

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plague hexes

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rit can guess ti

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dwer has instant insanity

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lynch immunity

radiant agate
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The attacking ideas probably aren't the best, but others are certainly high on the unique and interesting ideas. There probably could be some kind of rolelist worked around this CPow role.

barren oyster
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its not balanced

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double silence is insanely op

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lynch immunity is nearly impossible to balance

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the role as is has neither of:

  • a good base, role empowerment as a concept has almost never worked in sdgs
  • good execution
frosty escarp
cinder ravenBOT
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@frosty escarp has leveled up! (25 ➜ 26)

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radiant agate
# magic grotto Coven catalyst - Coven Power. Offense - none Defense - none Abilities: Unholy...

Here's some probably more balanced Boost ideas (mainly to satiate a certain someone), but also to address some issues as well.

Coven Leader: The next Morphing that you initiate won't take a charge. Will allow you to use it again if you have no charges. Can only have a hard maximum of 4 Morphs per game.

Witch: The person won't be notified that they were Controlled. If you have the Book, you will also have Scum Defense for that night (as a callback to ToS1 Classic Witch).

Hex Master: Attacks with the Book are disabled, acting as an Astral Hexing instead. If you die while being Boosted, Hex will detonate on all Hexed players, dealing an Unstoppable attack on all Hexed players (similar to Necro's effect).

Potion Master: Can use your potion on 2 targets at once, but if you do, you won't be able to use ANY potions the next night.

Illusionist: Illusions will persist for 2 nights. Will recharge Hysteria once if it's empty.

Jinx: People won't see you Prowling around a target that night. However, you won't be able to Jinx anyone the next night.

Poisoner: Your Poison will be able to bypass Basic Defense, but your more...obvious concoction will make the target aware of who you are.

Medusa: Will be able to Petrify on yourself, Stoning any targets that end up dying while visiting you, ToS1 Medusa style.

Conjurer: Regain a Meteor charge.

Ritualist: If your guess is wrong, you won't have The Message (TM) pop up, but will still lose a charge.

Dreamweaver: When a target goes Insane, if they have killing/investigative potential, they will always go on a Townie/Neutral. If they have protective/supportive potential, they will always go on a Coven (except for Tavern Keeper).

Necromancer: Can re-use previously used corpses. If they have killing potential, can only re-used once. Otherwise, no limit on this.

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Voodoo Master: If the person that was silenced dies that same night for whatever reason, the silence will go on a different person instead.

Wildling: If the person uses a Day Ability of any kind after you Sense them, you will automatically detect who did it (similar to Spy, but immediately).

Banshee: If you Screech on a person twice in a row, you will deal a Basic Attack to them (similar to ToS1 Banshee). Will not be able to Screech for 2 nights afterwards, if this procs.

Enchanter: If they Alterate someone that night, they will also be able to edit their Cause of Death, and their Alteration will also be able to persist into the next day.

Catalyst: Will be able to use the non-boosted ability of a not-in-play Coven member this night.

barren oyster
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dreamweaver will hard out coven
that necro is literally supposed to be base kit
conj adds kills
dusa is just uncontrollable
poisoner has powerful (unhealthy as shit
jinx is fine
theres a reason why hysteria has charges
pm should not have that restriction
hm adds kills
witch will act as a better enchanter
theres a reason why cl has limiter charges
vm is uncontrollable
banshee adds kills
catalyst acts as budget cl

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youve yet to prove to me that this concept works

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youve only got one tick and thats because jinx is the most unstable and swingy ass role

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and any attempt to reduce that swing makes jinx better

radiant agate
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🤷‍♂️ I tried my best to reign this in, while keeping some of the more interesting effects that this idea has.

barren oyster
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dont

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dont keep stuff unless theyre good

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interesting doesnt justify shit

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interesting is the cherry on top

radiant agate
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I have absolutely no bloody clue what the main community considers good and bad, so I've just been ignoring that and doing what I think sounds fair yet fun. Tbh, this is probably one of my more balanced ideas in a WHILE.

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Maybe have a cap to the amount of times that Boosts can be used?

radiant agate
# radiant agate Here's some probably more balanced Boost ideas (mainly to satiate a certain some...

Catalyst

Description: You are a dark servant of the demonic lords, doing whatever you can to support the Coven and their efforts to uproot and burn this Town to the ground.

Attack: None, Basic with Necro.

Defense: None.

Day Ability: Unholy Boost. (1/3 Charges). During the day, select 1 Coven member (which can be yourself), and their abilities will be empowered the next night with special attributes (with the exception of a few, which can use their effect immediately). You start off at 1 charges and can hold a maximum of 3.

Night Ability: Unholy Blast (Infinite, unlocked with the Necronomicon). Attack someone with a draining bolt from the Necronomicon, dealing a Basic Attack, and restoring a charge of Unholy Boost if they die.

Attributes: You cannot restore charges 2 nights in a row. You have a hard cap of 8 Unholy Boost usages per game, and any more will be deducted once you use your 8th.

Goal: To slay the Town and anyone else that opposes the Coven.

magic grotto
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i took the name from miraculous ladybug by the way

radiant agate
magic grotto
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and @radiant agate you really didn’t need to do the things you did but thank you🙏

radiant agate
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We must stay strong, brother.

magic grotto
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tyyy

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honestly i just like putting my silly little ideas out

radiant agate
magic grotto
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honestly i thought this would be one of my better ones along with bell-ringer

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which if you didn’t see you should check out

radiant agate
magic grotto
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you can scroll through suggestions to try and find it

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uhhh

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that’s all i can say

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or i could just copy the role into here iyw

cinder ravenBOT
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@magic grotto has leveled up! (2 ➜ 3)

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radiant agate
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Just found it, dw. 👍

magic grotto
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ah okay

radiant agate
barren oyster
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buddy stop acting like youre some sort of hero or something

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youre just devils advocate

heavy dock
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Is this INFINITE CHARGES

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And some interactions are weird to code

echo parcel
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its just a shitty outlier that feeds gasoline to the forest fire of powercreep and the imbalances

barren oyster
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denver sees himself as some messiah i think

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protecting the lesser man whoever that is

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i dont get his angle

gloomy turret
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Stop putting rampage on everything, the only role that deserves it is Werewolf.
Same with double visits (only role that deserves it is seer), there's so many of those wtf.
Medusa doesn't even buff the role's concept, you just gave it werewolf stats for no reason at all.
Absolutely not to the lynching immunity. I think GA was removed for that reason - lynching immunity is unhealthy.
Hex Master is literally beyond PM/Rit + TT Jailor broken... what the hell you could literally hex bomb day 3...

Also are you telling me this.. ability has infinite charges?

Basically all of these role boosts are either negligible buffs which do almost nothing, or so overpowered that you might as well have won the game as soon as day one started.

echo parcel
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basically your screwed if this spawns regardless of your role

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because infinite rampage attacks, double visits and coven pb

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it doesn’t contribute anything other than contributing gasoline to the dumpster fire of balance

magic grotto
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okay okay i will rework it so its a bit better

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but denver did a rework of all coven roles including banshees

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which you can look at

echo parcel
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and counter intuitive to the “reducing kp”

magic grotto
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please enlighten me on this

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how would you fix this role

echo parcel
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empowering roles are basically impossible to balance

magic grotto
echo parcel
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what point are you trying to make

barren oyster
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trust me

echo parcel
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“perfect balance” cant exist, none of us push for it

barren oyster
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the guy thinks hes some sort of messiah

barren oyster
echo parcel
barren oyster
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everything can be improved

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everything should be improved

wanton sigil
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unfortunately everything will be bad or good eventually

dusky knoll
wanton sigil
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mhm

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Denver thinks that the idea is fine but in reality it's unfixable

barren oyster
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denvers always a devils advocate

radiant agate
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:)

barren oyster
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thats not a good thing

radiant agate
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:)))

barren oyster
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stop being proud of it man

echo parcel
barren oyster
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yeah

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the guy pretends to be some sort of hero protecting the 'helpless players' from the 'big bad town of salem balancers' when in reality theyre a walking avatar of what not to do when balancing

dusky skiff
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I don't see how denver has been particularly off here - they've taken a suggestion with a good concept for a role, in my opinion, and attempted to balance it a bit more to help the creator. I'm not trying to say the suggestions are balanced yet, but I do think that maybe you guys are a little quick to just say "unbalanced" instead of providing discussion of how to actually balance concepts and ideas - and maybe a devil's advocate can actually aid development of an idea?

echo parcel
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we aren’t particularly quick to assume things are unbalanced

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they usually are

dusky skiff
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And I agree with you on that point, they usually are unbalanced, and i'm not taking issue with calling that out - i'm instead pointing out you tend to just say unbalanced, downvote, and leave, instead of contributing balance ideas

echo parcel
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usually they’re unable to fit into what we are trying to work to

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like this

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this provides nothing but destroys the concept of slower games

dusky skiff
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I can see that, yes
Still, it could be interesting to experiment with alternatives to slowing the game instead of not adding roles like this, but for example adding more protective opportunities (i'm sure it wouldn't be as effective though)

wild sigil
dusky knoll
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in order for a dedicated "empowerment" role to work, it'd have to function the same for every role

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it can never be truly balanced if every role has its own interaction with it

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even if you somehow got them all to around the same power level

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and even having it affect every role the same would still create some imbalance, as some roles would inevitably benefit more than others

barren oyster
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^

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my vm overhaul would always be better off on illu/ench or witch

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like wildlings not gonna get any use from double sensing

reef breach
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I told you not to call it this

magic grotto
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i reworked some of them but it won’t matter as “Unbalanced. Bad. Do better”

barren oyster
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because empowerment is an inherently unbalanced thing

magic grotto
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but this role would be useless if it just gave every coven extra stats.

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and it wouldn’t be as fun to play

barren oyster
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it would probably be unhealthy if it boosted attack

magic grotto
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so what is this role supposed to do

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give defense

barren oyster
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something else

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not empowerment

magic grotto
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every role is op so none are op

barren oyster
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thats powercreep and is unhealthy

magic grotto
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you just called all of btos and tos2

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unhealthy

barren oyster
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yes

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because it is

magic grotto
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then why even play

barren oyster
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stockholm

magic grotto
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…

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wow

barren oyster
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you asked

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and besides ive found better games to play

magic grotto
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good

barren oyster
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have you heard of deceit?

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its got a sequel

magic grotto
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not rly

barren oyster
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and its really good

magic grotto
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i’ll search it up

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gimme 2 secs

barren oyster
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they added nks

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its called chemist

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it basically has to poison everyone and then it wins

magic grotto
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we should bring this to #off-topic

barren oyster
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ok

echo parcel
wild sigil
reef breach
reef breach
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• Coven Leader: Coven should not have Rampage
• Witch: Witch is already strong, 2 controls PLUS framing is broken as SHIT
• Potion Master: omw to find out that someone is veteran and kindly give them a Barrier at the same time
• Illusionist: hard counters every TI instead of TIs on one person...for no reason
• Jinx: TP destroyer with absolutely no risk
• Poisoner: yayyy the Poisoner unnecessary extra kpn is doubled now
• Medusa: unbalanced considering this is a Coven role
• Hex Master: well isn't that just problematic
• Conjurer: giving Conjurer 2 meteors, how fun
• Ritualist: could be worse, I guess
• Dreamweaver: RANDOM TPOW HARD-COUNTER GO!
• Necromancer: at least you tried to balance it by only allowing 1 attacking role
• Voodoo Master: right, allow coven to stop 2 people from voting, because 1 wasn't strong enough.
• Wildling: Apocs literally have no defense...you DON'T need to nerf them wtf

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• Coven Catalyst: what the holy but unholy and cursed Necromancer-Coven Leader amalgamation FUCK

radiant agate
reef breach
radiant agate
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🤷‍♂️

reef breach
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Coven Leader is like the max setting for this type of shit

keen pulsar
radiant agate
keen pulsar
radiant agate
hybrid maple
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the name is really uncreative

magic grotto
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no yeah it’s temporary

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1 night only

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i wanna recreate it but i go over the character limit

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btw denver, you said in your reworked list about a “scum defense” what’s that

barren oyster
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single use defense

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when youre attacked once it goes away

radiant agate
magic grotto
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oh so it’s just a self protect but you still do you nightly ability and it has one charge

radiant agate
magic grotto
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ah yes

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ty

reef breach
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or probably Mage, since Mage in most contexts boosts other characters

hybrid maple
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yeah ig