#Ritualist Rework

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

lethal wharf
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Conj catch-up mechanic is a hell of a role

steady gale
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but I also kinda want it to have another ability

lethal wharf
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It must be basic though

oak pecan
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I'm not a fan of this conj. Conj exists to balance the power creep of town

lethal wharf
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Ive also made jinx into a catch-up mechanic role

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#1227415822469955694

steady gale
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isn't the idea here that we're reducing the power creep in the game?

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why are we trying to keep a role as-is because of the power creep in the game?

subtle dawn
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You are visiting the guy who is dying bro

steady gale
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if you stack on the coven kill every night

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and in that case, lookout did their job well

subtle dawn
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So you gotta wait a day to kill the Jailor? Let him exe another coven?

steady gale
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I don't see why rit should just be exempt from getting caught out

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you should use it strategically

subtle dawn
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This new Rit is already pretty weak. LO is not weak, why are screwing over this Ritualist right now?

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Their job is already done better by Hex Master/Necro or Starspawn

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This Ritualist is max get one kill that you shouldn't have per game

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The chance of you doing a hat trick and getting it three times is very low, considering who you actually want to kill

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Or that TP was even on them to begin with

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Do not nerf the role to the ground

steady gale
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how does it being astral fix any of that

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that's just the concept itself

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which I would be willing to admit isn't that strong

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but I think that's kind of the point

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it's meant more as kill security rather than being an outright kill on its own

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but, y'know, several town nerfs and reworks later, and I bet this would be very stable

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a crus overhaul, another lookout nerf, another slap on the wrist for their soft baby angel jailor

lethal wharf
oak pecan
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That's what I've been talking about.

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If town is balanced, then feel free to rework conj

steady gale
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I don't think that forcing the coven to sacrifice a kill would be that detrimental to conj anyways

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it'd still keep its purpose

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you just give it a night ability that's suitably strong for a cpow somehow and there you have it

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I'm still kinda thinking about that one, but something good will come up eventually

ripe glen
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That is literally the only thing he does.

steady gale
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and that doesn't suck?

narrow rune
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not really

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its an amazing bookie

karmic granite
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What would you rather Conjurer did?

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Conjurer is only one additional kill per game its not that bad

steady gale
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I said that I think the coven should have to sac a night kill for the meteor

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like the conj only gets it when they fail to kill for any reason

karmic granite
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Uhh

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Nno that just makes conjurer impossible to actually use 90% of the time

steady gale
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for any reason

karmic granite
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Yeah I know

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But that's not the point of Conjurer

steady gale
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if "killed by the coven" doesn't show up that night, conj gets the meteor

karmic granite
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And also that still sucks

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Also if Conjurer walks into a BG or into a Trapper or Crus or etc

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I get that it triggers if they hit defense asw but I think that still sucks

steady gale
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I also think conj should have something else to do though

karmic granite
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I dont see why

steady gale
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sit at home

karmic granite
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Okay so you have to sink a kill just to get a clearly telegraphed day kill

mint fiber
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i dont think wanting to waste a kill is good for conj

karmic granite
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Yeah

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What if Conjurer really needs to use meteor but someone killed last night

pine heath
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spawn rocks above someone and drop it on them to injure them, they must be healed or they die (poison simulating bleed) real

karmic granite
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You're just useless ig

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How is that even supposed to be useful to coven

steady gale
karmic granite
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Conjurer is barely contributing to killpower

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If conjurer is the only source there is no problem

pine heath
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Extra kills is the point of Conjurer

karmic granite
steady gale
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an independent extra kill is a lot of contribution to kill power

pine heath
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deputy and conjurer exist to perform a day kill, that is their gimmick

steady gale
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the point of conj is to break through walls and put fear into tpow roles from coming out

small crest
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kidnapper wasnt problematic in btos1

karmic granite
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Conjurer acts as a counter to this game having otherwise invincible Tpow roles, and as a deterrent to them open claiming and removing claimspace

small crest
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conjurer is the same thing

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rit is so much worse

pine heath
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yeah that makes more sense

karmic granite
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I mean Conjurer is basically just botc assassin

steady gale
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and people want it to stay the exact way that it is now because of that

karmic granite
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And assassin is one of the best roles

steady gale
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with no changes to transition to cpow

karmic granite
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My only problem with Conjurer is I would prefer it was a night kill

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Thats it

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And emphasis on prefer is because it isnt even a problem really

narrow rune
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yeah conj is fine

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so long as hyper doesnt rework it

karmic granite
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Except hyper kkiiindd of got himself (and his alts) banned from being able to access the suggestions channel lol

hot galleon
steady gale
# narrow rune yeah conj is fine

I just think it'd be better if the game were balanced around coven having consistent access to a flat 1 kpn rather than 1 kpn + 1 guaranteed kill sometimes

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I also think it's kinda lame how, due to book passing, the meta for conj is just to kinda have it sit at home until it conjures

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since it completely lacks a night ability, but you also really don't want it to be attacking at night

narrow rune
steady gale
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weaver

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#1229420017637134366

narrow rune
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thats not hypers alt

steady gale
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#1229428352356581427 message

narrow rune
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thats still not hypers alt the mans got some stark differences

ripe glen
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I'm just saying that it's kinda weird that Weaver suddenly ceased to exist at all, and never questioned "Hey, where'd my access to the suggestions channel go"

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Like, where did he go? Seemed like a nice man.

narrow rune
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hm weird

ripe glen
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After Hyper was called out for alting, Weaver just disappeared and never spoke again.

narrow rune
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oh maybe weaver is hypers alt

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anyways

ripe glen
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Maybe they're brothers. (Joking)

small crest
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we have enough proof it is lol

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anyway

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lets not go off topic

narrow rune
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yep anyways this rit is neat but i generally just hate it being able to hurt neuts

ripe glen
narrow rune
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ill be more silly

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im yet to steal the uranium from my physics lab

ripe glen
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It's straight up unfair to the Jackal, which is why I'm glad about that. But ritting the Jackal still requires you figure him out.

narrow rune
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yeah but pm and witch

ripe glen
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It's still a two step process.

narrow rune
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that synergy was always a 2 step process

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never stopped it from being hell for the neut

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at the end of the day they still died

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unable to do shit about it unless they managed to get the rit

ripe glen
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I'm focusing on Jackal because it's the most common neutral you will deal with in the most balanced mode that contains non-pariah neutrals (JR)

But yeah, if you hit an immune, he is ritting that man as Jackal.

Post rework, if you hit an immune, he is ritting that man, and then the Coven will get him the next night. (Or they will just hang him during the day because that extra two steps is too long, which is how God intended people to play the game.)

narrow rune
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yeah i want the lynch to be how its done

small crest
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not only jackal

narrow rune
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its why i believe rit should just make it so that the next night theyre isolated from non coven

small crest
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neutrals get rekt from coven

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too muc

narrow rune
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yeah

small crest
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inq and doom lose defense after d3 anyways rn

narrow rune
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yeah theyre nes and all

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mainly im talking about nks

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my shadow covens rit has a curse mechanic that basically makes it so the next night, the ritted player bounces all non coven

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i think thats much better and less gimmicky than turning all attacks astral+unstop

ripe glen
# narrow rune yeah i want the lynch to be how its done

Which is exactly what will happen in practice.

Immune, Rit as Jackal, Kill, that is 3 days if the other coven is recruited

Immune, Rit, dead (current) is 2 days but it's a surefire way with no risk and no counterplay from the recs (Unless you were lucky enough to get Rit as rec, or Poisoner)

Immune, hang this man, that is one day minimum, but requires the court of public opinion.

narrow rune
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immune, rit as jackal and kill is 2 days

ripe glen
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Why did I write it as if Rit was the last non recruit

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nevermind

ashen ledge
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Same

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Not you acting like it's gonna be butchered without Astral 😭

karmic granite
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Rit is gonna have the exact same vulnerabilities as literally every other role its RUINED madgeslimemadgeslimemadgeslime

lethal wharf
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Totally the best course to go in

narrow rune
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thats literally the plan minus the fake jailing

steady gale
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still don't get why conj deserves a free pass on extra kill power while it needs to be removed on everything else

narrow rune
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because conj does it in a nonproblematic way

karmic granite
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When you have other CKs in the mix like Jinx and current Rit yeah its a bit much

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Conjurer alone is completely fine

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It's also completely telegraphed and gives town info whenever it happens as well

narrow rune
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also me when conj reflex nukes the pariah in cr cuz they have def

pine heath
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Conjurer has turned into Conk, bane of Pariahs!

steady gale
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and the other 2 just don't really do much to justify it for me

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I honestly hate how conj just kinda sits at home until it uses its meteor then becomes the defacto book sponge

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thinking of a night ability for it is just hard

karmic granite
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There's nothing wrong with roles that do one thing per game

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For some reason specifically in tos, people have it that every role has to do like 20 things tho

steady gale
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I'm just thinking of a simple night action for its transition to cpow

karmic granite
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it really doesnt need one

steady gale
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nothing too special

karmic granite
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at least imo

steady gale
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man

steady gale
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the more I think of 1 and 2 as points for conj staying the same the less they make sense to me

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like what difference does it make that it's "only one extra kill"

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1 extra kill is enough to make or break the entire game

narrow rune
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and thats why its cpow

steady gale
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okay?

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none of the other cpows are gonna add extra kills though?

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I don't see how it being cpow is gonna justify that

narrow rune
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yeah but the other cpows have their other abilities

steady gale
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and conj is a one trick pony so it gets to just speed up the game

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and singlehandedly justify the town having a bunch of day power

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because otherwise they just get to mess up once and die for it

narrow rune
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but conj doesnt justify shit

steady gale
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but it does

narrow rune
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no it doesnt

steady gale
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the presence of a conj actually makes the game so much tighter

narrow rune
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how does it

steady gale
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town is essentially a number down

narrow rune
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acting as the sole source of extra kills

steady gale
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the town has to be balanced around being a number down to compensate

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even if conj doesn't spawn all the time

narrow rune
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town isnt balanced around that rn

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why should they be if conj is being the sole independent killer

steady gale
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the town can speed through the coven as fast as the coven can speed through them

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I don't like that though, and I want the town to be WAY weaker than it is right now

narrow rune
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and it will be

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so will cov

steady gale
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but conj is just like

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it's like a constant numbers check

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which jinx and rit aren't

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but jinx and rit are op because they get extra kills

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so I would think that conj would be op

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because it gets an extra kill

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and I would think that the whole point of removing extra kills from the game would be to do just that, remove extra kills

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slow both the coven and town down substantially

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would the coven not still be too fast in the case that they get a conj?

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I feel like I need more of an in-depth explanation here

vast shadow
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I think the less killing roles there are, the more powerful extra kill roles are

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Maybe after a while

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Conj would be relatively more powerful

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Like Kp deflation

steady gale
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ya, it would be

ashen ledge
karmic granite
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What could it have?

subtle dawn
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Evils win when they have majority. Coven roles are good based on how they can help Coven achieve majority. Why deceive town into hanging others or trick them into not hanging you? When you can just kill them yourself. Conjurer would be undisputedly the best role in the game once Ritualist is nerfed.

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Hex master can not trick others into getting maj, or trick them into not hanging themself, and has to achieve insane conditions to kill off town. Take Hex out of Cpow cuz it sucks and put Conj and Jinx in there. And then limit amount of Cpow you can have.

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--- Ritualist makes the killer of the player astral. Which makes sense because Coven don't want to visit the dying guy. So Ritualist doing away with that and visiting them anyways defeats the entire purpose.

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This new Ritualist is not very strong. It being astral makes sense thematically to the previous Ritualist.

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This role is already going to be BS Vet killer #2, you can't do anything other than that first night and likely second night as well.

steady seal
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it wont

steady gale
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it's not like illu where it ends up screwing over its team a lot of the time just for visiting

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it would be fine

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the problem is mainly just getting randomly ganked by a crus, which a lot of the coven have a major problem with

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but crus deserves a major fix anyways

ashen ledge
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I don't think it has to be directly related to the meteor

subtle dawn
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I don't want to waste a day to kill the Tpow, when they are going to use their ability to kill coven the next day

subtle dawn
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Why would we punish players for playing correctly?

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I would be fine if they incorrectly guessed their target they visited them. But if they correctly guessed they did not visit them.

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The visit could be the punishment for incorrect guesses as opposed to being outted to town

steady gale
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lookout doesn't punish this that bad at all if you simply don't stack the book kill with the rit on the same night that they cast it

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at that point it's just like anyone getting caught visiting

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honestly though, lookout should be nerfed as well

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rit rework or not

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I don't think removing astral was enough for it

ripe glen
steady gale
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the big crus rework incoming

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hopefully

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but honestly lookout being able to see other lookouts wouldn't be too big of a deal if it were nerfed

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I know it already has some counters, but you really rely on those counters both spawning and doing their job

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lookout does at the very least need to be foolable by deception abilities, even if it doesn't get something like not being able to see more than 3 visitors

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although I do think that it shouldn't be able to see more than 3 visitors

ripe glen
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You aren't going to see more than three visitors unless it is TPLO, which NP handles early on in the game (66% that TPLO won't work)

steady gale
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it's always good to account for edge cases when it comes to stuff like that though

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plus it allows the coven some very risky counterplay to lookout

ashen ledge
ashen ledge
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Not every list has a Witchcon

narrow rune
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every comp list does outside of jr

ashen ledge
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Plus it'd suck for that 33%

narrow rune
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yeah i dont like the rn in jr

steady gale
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it's just one of those cases where it's a rare edge case, but there's no reason not to balance for it

narrow rune
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id prefer if it was pariah

steady gale
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you don't really expect it to come into play all that much, but it's pretty important when it does

ashen ledge
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Mhm

steady seal
subtle dawn
# steady seal if theres a confirmed LO, rit them and kill them then

bro, you have a role dedicated to getting power town killed faster. Now instead of me killing the marshal who is about to use his second tribunal, I have to kill this LO who may have tp on him and my ritualist can't guess him. Starspawn doesn't have to worry about that. This is just a role that is worse than its counterpart in like every way, and you're saying let's make it worse by outting it to Lookout's so that they can't use their ability properly.

ashen ledge
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It wouldn't be that obvious, you can look like a TP or a random visiting role

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And even then it's just a 1f1

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You can push the Lookout as fake and waste Town's time

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It's not the end of the world

subtle dawn
# ashen ledge You're acting as if you're gonna be noticed by the Lookout

LO is the most trusted TI role in the game, you are going not going to win a 1 f 1 against them. Especially because there is no such thing as Exe in Btos so 1f1s are always accuser sided. And even if there was exe, they would not do that play because it relies on them guessing visits n1 and n2 correctly. If you are the only person who visited the dead guy, you will die the next day no matter what. If you and another TP visited them, the other tp is gonna say "hey my ability didn't work this other guy who visited is Ritualist!"

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This is opposed to Starspawn, who goes on whom Coven would like dead the most, without knowing which specific Tpow they are so the tpow claims die before they even reveal. It also prevents town from getting any info on the dead guy and even if they have no good targets they wouldn't be a potato like this Ritualist would be because they have daybreak.

ashen ledge
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If you're afraid of a Lookout then wait a night to attack the target

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To push doubt on someone else

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I think Lookout needs a nerf with its results being entirely accurate but Ritualist being more vulnerable to Lookout I don't see being a problem

karmic granite
ashen ledge
ashen ledge
karmic granite
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Mhm

lethal wharf
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I seriously don't get why bro is still yapping about this

karmic granite
lethal wharf
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There's just this group of 3-4 people I've grouped in my mind to just ignore the opinions of because they are just stupid

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Same dude who tried rushing the update

small crest
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💀

karmic granite
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Never have I ever seen someone suggest “rush the game”

narrow rune
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curtis said no

ripe glen
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The small thumbs-down list is pretty funny to look at.

lethal wharf
steady hornet
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good god every once in a while i check back into this thread and

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this thread is NEVER going to die 💀

vast shadow
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So

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Are we adding this?

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It has a 42 to 5 like ratio

loud lake
ripe glen
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It will take time, and not until Town loses a big chunk of kill power as well.

steady hornet
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yeah i think both town and coven need to lose kp in the same update

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if coven loses kp randomly, then town has too much kp compared to them, and vice versa

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(of course marshal update incoming, along with deputy update eventually will help rebalance things)

loud lake
subtle dawn
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Release finish parts separate from unfinished parts is opposite of Rushing an update, it's just releasing what is already finished. How do you rush something already done?

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It's just splitting the update in chunks. there isn't much of a reason to have it in two bits from my perspective.

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We shouldn't talk about it though or this thread will get locked too lol

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I swear yall spend more time arguing in suggestions about nonsense than actually playing the damn game

steady seal
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yes

steady gale
steady hornet
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i dont know what you achieve by saying this

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would you WANT the game to stay in the state it currently is? like why wouldn't you want better for a game you like playing

steady hornet
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someone is dying tonight they said the yagga phrase

ashen ledge
visual mason
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because trickling in updates is just not a good idea for balance and overall stability

narrow rune
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also for just engagement and hype in general

warped oyster
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tos2 battle pass when

lethal wharf
warped oyster
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that would be hilarious if it did

karmic granite
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Tbfh I don't mind battle pass stuff but as long as you do it like how Among Us did it

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Fruck FOMO I hate that they are all limited time

lethal wharf
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Doesn't among us use fomo though?

narrow rune
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fomo?

karmic granite
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Fear of Missing Out

karmic granite
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The majority of battle passes do it so they're there for a limited time and if you don't complete it in time, welp, u just dont get anything else from it have a good day

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I think they can be fun in games you play a lot since they make it feel like you have a constant progression as you play and you have stuff to work towards, but they're mostly used in rlly manipulative ways which I aint a fan of

warped oyster
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I missed the indie cosmicube cause I didn't have enough of the things to buy it

karmic granite
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I don’t remember it being thhhat expensive but I forget

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Either way my point is that you get to keep it, as I’ve literally said this entire time the fomo is the exact part I don’t like

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Among us just has like the least egregious because you actually get to keep everything once you have the cosmicubes

warped oyster
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yeah you just need to own it and you have it forever

steady gale
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what with the 1 time purchase deed, very loud and short daily deals, and the whole cauldron system with exclusives

karmic granite
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Yaur it's true

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Well, I mean its basically driving every game tbf but yes

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Just that I dont think a battle pass would be automatically bad, it depends how they do it

warped oyster
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I mean what would you even get from a tos2 battle pass

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scrolls and cosmetics is all I can think of

karmic granite
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I mean thats p much what you get from them anyway

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Just other games have a wider range of cosmetics

warped oyster
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yeah there's not much in tos2

karmic granite
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Tos has characters, skins, houses, parts for your house, pets

warped oyster
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whereas in games like fortnite they add a ton of content for each pass

karmic granite
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They could add more stuff asw

stoic pecan
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does the Epic Free Bundle count, in a way?

warped oyster
karmic granite
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Balance is great but it doesn't pay for the roof over their heads

hot galleon
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Balance is great for player retention sure but it's not gonna draw in new players

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Although to be fair the epic deal probably will draw in new players

small crest
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real

unborn zealot
steady gale
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the 24 hour delayed ping

hot galleon
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Reply pings are such a wonderful feature arent they

narrow rune
lethal wharf
pine heath
narrow rune
steady gale
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no

narrow rune
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too late

pine heath
pine heath
ashen ledge
karmic granite
pine heath
pine heath
ashen ledge
untold girder
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Accidentally made something very similar for the jinx #1237574100818460755

golden tree
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Please pin the first message it’s so far up

untold girder
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Ff to OG until its pinned

narrow rune
karmic granite
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It is pinned isn't it?

narrow rune
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on mobile you have to go into settings to access pins

karmic granite
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At least they made searching function properly

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Pins are still in like 9 diff places tho

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It physically hurts its such terrible UI

narrow rune
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i hate it so much

golden tree
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sacrificed should make it so any visit causes an astral and unstoppable attack (real)

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is sacrificed silent or loud

ivory swallow
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not plugging this, just saying heeeeey I used it