uh
#Ritualist Rework
hot galleon
narrow rune
very
hot galleon
currently in tol the inquisitor has 3 town targets
narrow rune
for one thing its anti everyone for some godforsaken reason
hot galleon
and the inquisitor bypasses most protections
high zodiac
currently in tol the game is dead asf
hot galleon
(it goes thru physician/alchemist/chronomancer but not knight or king)
karmic granite
guys I love blood on the clocktower
lethal wharf
*currently* in tol the inquisitor has 3 town targets
this is what it should be tbf
narrow rune
~~this is what it should be tbf~~
i mean yeah
hot galleon
(it goes thru physician/alchemist/chronomancer but not knight or king)
that is to say
healing but not death immunity
inner maple
guys I love blood on the clocktower
And I love ToS2
high zodiac
people when there's blood on the clocktower or something idk I didn't play the game
karmic granite
BLOOD ON THE CLOCKTOWER
hot galleon
that is to say
healing but not death immunity
which is funny because that does not translate to tos LMAO
karmic granite
I LOVE BOTC SO MUCH
high zodiac
cotc > botc
karmic granite
WAH
lethal wharf
people when there's blood on the clocktower or something idk I didn't play the g...
You should try it at least once
hot galleon
hmmm
karmic granite
RAKI BECOME ADDICTED TO BOTC
visual mason
tf is cotc > botc
high zodiac
corn on the cob
lethal wharf
Raki, are you fine with vcing?
hot galleon
i do not like corn
karmic granite
raki give me your credit card details
hot galleon
so therefore botc much better
karmic granite
raki give me your phone right now I am going to order pizza
high zodiac
are you trying to brainwash me into playing a social deduction game
hot galleon
yes
lethal wharf
It's definitely better to play botc via VC instead of text
lethal wharf
are you trying to brainwash me into playing a social deduction game
Says the person in the btos2 server
karmic granite
But I had fun !
high zodiac
Says the person in the btos2 server
a real raki fan would know I don't play anymore
karmic granite
raki do you eat granite ever
karmic granite
shame im not a real raki fan
actually fucking banned
high zodiac
no I prefer eating diorite
karmic granite
no I prefer eating diorite
actually fucking banned also
ashen ledge
a real raki fan would know I don't play anymore
Worst Minecraft decorative stone
steady hornet
text is fine
ashen ledge
Bitch ew
steady hornet
the only downside is that
karmic granite
correct response
ashen ledge
I didn't reply to that I hate it here
steady hornet
its somewhat harder to scumread people
high zodiac
I do not like the stone decoration trio at all anyway
steady hornet
but thats it
karmic granite
a real raki fan would know I don't play anymore
that is the worst rock type ngl
karmic granite
Bru
high zodiac
tuff without the new update would just be shit
karmic granite
Nah I will stand up for granite
karmic granite
Granite + Bricks
loud lake
wtf are we talking about
o f f t o p i c
steady hornet
??? GRANITE GOATED
karmic granite
Is amazing
karmic granite
Yeah
steady hornet
this is definitely on topic
karmic granite
This seems on topic to me
steady hornet
we have staff in here
ashen ledge
tuff without the new update would just be shit
What's it have in the new update? But anyway I love using tuff in moss themed builds
steady hornet
anyway minecraft hot takes?
hot galleon
my hot take is that minecraft isn't good
high zodiac
bunch of new tuff type blocks
hot galleon
my actual take is that its probably fine I just cant stand playing it
loud lake
the best update in the last like three years was the april fools update 💀
high zodiac
I've been playing modded since after 10 years of vanilla I'm tired of it
ashen ledge
anyway minecraft hot takes?
I don't like how netherite armor looks
karmic granite
I play minecraft for so long
loud lake
change my mind
karmic granite
I play it all the time
I run around my minecraft worlds to satiate my ADHD
I am literally doing it rn
high zodiac
Been on a Pixelmon grind with friends recently
high zodiac
I don't like how netherite armor looks
I don't like how armor looks
karmic granite
this is my super cool hotel island guys
steady hornet
thats sick
karmic granite
wowza
ashen ledge
I don't like how armor looks
I don't mind boots but yeah
karmic granite
thank u I made it 3 years ago and I run around it bc of adhd
steady hornet
oh hi tuba
high zodiac
Invisible armor mod is nice
small crest
I dont play mc
steady hornet
you're just in time for our very on topic discussion
steady hornet
I dont play mc
mods, ban this guy
ashen ledge
this is my super cool hotel island guys
karmic granite
me fr
steady hornet
you're getting the british food treatment for that one
karmic granite
https://tenor.com/view/ltg-british-food-mods-low-tier-god-gif-910807521467777761...
scrumptious
high zodiac
okay but who here was super into 1.7-1.8 pvp
steady hornet
aintnoway
karmic granite
crumpets innit luv
steady hornet
karmic granite
bleugh
steady hornet
okay but who here was super into 1.7-1.8 pvp
was this the one where you had to wait inbetween hits
karmic granite
that looks SHIT
karmic granite
1.8 and before was spam click
high zodiac
Spam click like chads
karmic granite
1.9 was the combat update
steady hornet
but i dont mind the new combat system though
high zodiac
1.9 as a concept was fine but holy shit they fucked it
karmic granite
yeahhh
high zodiac
no choice but to use it
ashen ledge
https://tenor.com/view/ltg-british-food-mods-low-tier-god-gif-910807521467777761...
I wonder if Santa steals coal from the British to give out to the bad kids so often to the point where their food tastes like it's raw shit because they can't cook anything
karmic granite
guys speaking of them fucking up combat have yall seen da mace :D
It looks so goofy !
steady hornet
I wonder if Santa steals coal from the British to give out to the bad kids so of...
i always think about that one saying where its something like "the british invaded all of these lands for loot and forgot to take it back with them"
high zodiac
the mace....
steady hornet
(aka, the spice)
steady hornet
the mace....
mace gaming though what
ashen ledge
i always think about that one saying where its something like "the british invad...
They got the loot they just don't know how to use it
steady hornet
honestly i think all* updates minecraft have made after the nether update are fine
ashen ledge
They only use rice to dry their iPhones after they accidentally drop them in the English Channel
high zodiac
Okay so modded talk
Rate mystical agriculture
steady hornet
people are just mad if its not something they can use in their fully optimized mc world with raid farms and infinite storage system
steady hornet
Okay so modded talk
Rate mystical agriculture
send examples
idk what they look like
high zodiac
it's magical crops but for modern Minecraft
steady hornet
They only use rice to dry their iPhones after they accidentally drop them in the...
idk if you use tiktok but are you familiar with "a chinese" from british people
karmic granite
I havent played Aether or like, even know anything about it o_o
ashen ledge
Anyway y'all should move somewhere else now
steady hornet
fair
high zodiac
The dev for aether dimension now actually works with mojang
karmic granite
U cant make me wave goodbye to my house yet I am not ready
high zodiac
they're the same person who made the warden
karmic granite
The dev for aether dimension now actually works with mojang
oh ayayayayaya
yeahhhhhh
I love the warden
oh wait
karmic granite
Anyway y'all should move somewhere else now
I just realised ur talking about the conversation bruh LMFAO
high zodiac
aether is great because it offers multiple alternate endgame armor options
karmic granite
yeah we prob should
high zodiac
O
karmic granite
Raki quick change the topic to toontown to bamboozle the opponents
high zodiac
This was ritualist discussion and nobody else can prove otherwise
ashen ledge
anyway minecraft hot takes?
I love acacia
high zodiac
(anyone who proves it, get rid of em)
steady seal
scrolling up:
high zodiac
I love acacia
Wtf wave W?????
karmic granite
I always built out of acacia when I was a midget
ashen ledge
Wtf wave W?????
Just the logs mainly, the planks don't really fit my color palettes
steady hornet
acacia is great
karmic granite
wave live in a damn orange
steady hornet
now JUNGLE
ashen ledge
Jungle is only cute if you're in a jungle
karmic granite
Idk I might just be a basic bitch but if I'm building out of wood its usually oak?
high zodiac
That is acceptable
karmic granite
it depends how insane ass on a scale of 1-10 what im making is
high zodiac
lazy MFS building a box or an underground house:
Nuggy make a group chat in dms for dumb mc talk
karmic granite
bru I built a floating house that is all interior I couldnt be bothered building the outside LMFAO
ashen ledge
Idk I might just be a basic bitch but if I'm building out of wood its usually oa...
I use oak and spruce
Fuck birch no thank you
karmic granite
ok but what about warped wood and crimson wood
karmic granite
Wait it cant ??!?
high zodiac
I like crimson more tho
Yes it's a nether wood lol
It won't catch fire* should say
It's not netherite you can destroy it
hot galleon
to the surprise of many, wood in the nether (full of fire) is fireproof
ashen ledge
ok but what about warped wood and crimson wood
Warped Hyphae is pretty
inner maple
my hot take is that minecraft isn't good
I had to look up and see that
I'm leaving this thread fuck this
hot galleon
LOL
karmic granite
Warped Hyphae is pretty
tru it looks super alien
ashen ledge
Bye hoe
high zodiac
yo make a Minecraft specific in off topic
ashen ledge
tru it looks super alien
I love the teal/purple texture
ashen ledge
I haven't seen the modded one
karmic granite
git in #off-topic
high zodiac
bluh bla blue rit rit hehehe ritualist discussion jablungus blargis
steady hornet
oh yeah the pink wood is amazing
i love cherry wood
cherry + birch and then some acacia goes hard
tropic yacht
Been overthinking about this rework lately and got some things to ask:
1: How does this interact with poison? Poison is technically an attack, afterall BG/traps get triggered by it, so would poison insta-kill the target the same night its applied, guarantee the target can't be saved from it or what?
2: What about biting? Biting is also technically an attack, would biting someone that got rit'd kill them regardless of what role they are or would it work normally?
And lastly,
3: When an astral role gets shrouded they get attacked since they don't visit, so if a shroud shrouds someone that targets a rit'd player wouldn't that create a paradox? The shrouded visitor is attacking the rit'd player, which makes them go astral, since they're astral they won't visit so they get attacked by Shroud instead, now that they aren't attacking they aren't astral which means shroud will attack their target, and repeat.
unborn zealot
pine heath
Been overthinking about this rework lately and got some things to ask:
1: How d...
Probable answers (not guaranteed correct):
- The poison would apply as normal, but might be applied by an astral visit. The poison attack would be unstoppable
- Again, would probably count as an astral visit, and if the role can’t be converted or there’s 4 vampires, it becomes an Unstoppable bite attack
- Priority system would dictate this. Shroud and Sacrifice won’t have the same priority I’m sure, and even if they did, the priority order doesn’t have a rewind button and cannot loop
steady gale
Been overthinking about this rework lately and got some things to ask:
1: How d...
I don't see where the part of them not attacking comes in for that third point
the player that attacks the ritted target doesn't visit when they attack, so the shroud kills them
it's not like shroud blocks their target's attack or anything
steady hornet
i have no clue actually im too tired to think about this
tropic yacht
I don't see where the part of them not attacking comes in for that third point
x is shrouded, y is rit'd
x visits y
x attacks y (shrouded)
x becomes astral (for attacking y)
x is astral so their target isn't shroud attacked
(x will also get shroud attacked for it)
x is no longer attacking y
x is no longer astral
Repeat
x attacks because they're shrouded, they were not attacking from the start, otherwise this would've been linear lmao
steady gale
oh
maybe it'd just be like most other things where it simply doesn't interact with shrouded targets
pine heath
x is shrouded, y is rit'd
x visits y
x attacks y (shrouded)
x becomes astral (f...
This is how it would actually work:
- x becomes shrouded
- x is now seen as an attacker, so Sacrifice makes them astral
- Shroud cannot change their target because they already applied Shroud
- x attacks y
Priority cannot rewind
It never has
narrow rune
This is how it would actually work:
* x becomes shrouded
* x is now seen as an ...
pretty sure shroud checks afterwards if they did visit and if they were astral or didnt, itd attack them
so x and y would both die
steady hornet
either way this is a pretty interesting thing to test out anyway
lethal wharf
oak pecan
I like this rework
tired lodge
Make it so that the charge feature isn't capped at 3 though?
small crest
its been said
tired lodge
Seeing that its hard
small crest
it overlaps with starspawn
tired lodge
To guess correctly as it is
tired lodge
it overlaps with starspawn
Ok
Wait
this would actually pair really well with my Spy rework
Since Rit doesnt reveal when they fail
The Blood Ritual detection feature is more applicable
visual mason
it overlaps with starspawn
idk if i would like this in my CK slot when i could have conjurer or jinx getting more kpn
¯_(ツ)_/¯
tired lodge
I think infinite charges is fine
small crest
abolishing CK entirely making this another alignment
tired lodge
Seeing that this role lacks consistency
ripe glen
I don't actually mind this
small crest
making conj and jinx mutually exclusive
reference to BTOS1 Kidnapper and Ambusher being mutually exclusive.
ripe glen
Coven Power and Coven Killing are so jank because CK is almost universally better.
ripe glen
Hell.
Even if you still need time to cook for Ritualist, you could do everything else and do a temporary killswitch on Rit, just to test that out.
narrow rune
i mean i think jinx and rit doing this would be cool
ripe glen
Removing Coven Killing would actually cook. Just replace CK with CPOW in role lists (and now that CL will have a use, CPOWer will actually always be good)
vast shadow
Wait then where do ck roles go
visual mason
kidnapper would still be a cool role idea just remove it the killing power
narrow rune
probs cpow
tired lodge
into CPOW
visual mason
cojurer as a fucking cpow???
tired lodge
cojurer as a fucking cpow???
Would fit
ripe glen
Jinx- Random Coven
narrow rune
cojurer as a fucking cpow???
it would work
small crest
In theory
narrow rune
i think it would straight up just work
visual mason
i would rather have a CL (new) or a Hm or Witch, Conjurer would be one of the weaker Cpows now
ripe glen
If there's an alignment with only one role, you would delete the alignment and just have the outlier as RC, no?
narrow rune
i would rather have a CL (new) or a Hm or Witch, Conjurer would be one of the we...
a free kill is huge
vast shadow
Would rit be cu or something
ripe glen
This Rit rework fits in CU, yes
vast shadow
Then where does jinx go
narrow rune
lemme post a jinx rework to mirror this
vast shadow
I don’t think it’s a cpow
ripe glen
Random Coven, like Amnesiac.
vast shadow
Maybe
fringe charm
Then where does jinx go
The Box of shame
narrow rune
Jinx
Coven Utility
Attack: None*
Defense: None
Abilities:
Curse players
Attack with the Necronomicon
Curse(3)
Pick 2 targets and visit the first
If your second target visits the first, you will inflict Curse on the second target at the start of the day
Cursed players will have all Protective/Bouncing abilities on them fail and Lookouts wont see anyone visit them ever
Trackers cannot see anyone visit Cursed players
Necronomicon
Deals a Basic Attack to your first target
Attributes:
You can Curse and Attack with the Necronomicon at the same time
ripe glen
Right, "getting rid" of Coven Killing can just be removing it in role lists, and then making Conjurer and Jinx mutually exclusive, or just moving Conjurer to CPOW.
narrow rune
# Jinx
Coven Utility
Attack: None*
Defense: None
Abilities:
Curse players
Attac...
heres my jinx without the killing
could use this
vast shadow
What happens if curse fails
narrow rune
What happens if curse fails
nothing
ripe glen
It doesn't necessarily have to be deleted entirely from the code.
But it does feel nice to be able to have ONE dedicated power slot instead of Two
narrow rune
you only use charges on success
i still would like cks to be covens way of getting one extra kill thats hard to get
while being able to support outside of it
fringe charm
Question with your rework could you target other coven as your second target?
narrow rune
Question with your rework could you target other coven as your second target?
only as your first
fringe charm
If not It would be really really hard to get consistant value
narrow rune
i never saw the point of the jinx restrictions
narrow rune
If not It would be really really hard to get consistant value
why would you want to hurt your teammates
outside of jackals
fringe charm
why would you want to hurt your teammates
I think I got the target order mixed up
narrow rune
yeah ya did
fringe charm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
karmic granite
Conj becomes CPOW
Holy moly I would love that so much lmfao
I dig this up from the grace
Coven Power
- Coven Leader
- Witch
- Conjurer
- Ritualist
Coven Chaos
- Dreamweaver
- Jinx
- Necromancer
- Hex Master
Coven Utility
- Potion Master
- Wildling
- Poisoner
- Voodoo Master
Coven Deception
- Enchanter
- Illusionist
- Medusa
- Banshee
This was a really really old idea I had to reshuffle the alignments
Idk how well it works with this rit rework but o wel
pine heath
That looks good
ripe glen
Think about it this way. Mafia(Killing) was GF, Kidnapper, Ambusher and (Mafioso doesn't count, it is the book but worse)
Is Coven Power not the same idea if we're thinking TOS1? If Conjurer could do something besides his one rock, he would be a perfect sidegrade to Kidnapper, Jinx is still weak for the rank, but extra kills are super powerful in nature. Having two distinct power role categories feels weird when CK has always been better because powercreep killrush NOW!
I think radically ripping the bandaid off and going full TOS1 mode on that front might hurt a bit, but ultimately would be better after the dust settles.
karmic granite
Wait holy shit lol
ripe glen
Wait holy shit lol
I can't tell if I'm cooking or you need to slap me.
ripe glen
Yea
karmic granite
Ogh it’s confusing
steady hornet
oh i definitely needed to read more before typing lol
steady hornet
**Coven Power**
- Coven Leader
- Witch
- Conjurer
- Ritualist
**Coven Chaos**
-...
anyway i really like this proposal
karmic granite
I think Ambusher (and KP to that extent) were kinda just there tbf
It was basically two different alignments
ripe glen
If CK is removed, now we can actually work on reducing the powercreep without someone feeling ripped off because one powercrept CK didn't spawn and you got the other
steady hornet
(Banshee as coven deception feels out of place though)
karmic granite
Banshee is alr coven deception
steady hornet
It’s not CU power level so not sure
to be fair not all roles in a bucket have to have equal power level
jinx is currently in CK with rit and conj
steady hornet
and dreamweaver is... LMAO
steady hornet
That’s a bad example but still xd
true
loud lake
and dreamweaver is... LMAO
dwer best role fr
ripe glen
It was basically two different alignments
Not true. If we look at this MK=CPOWer, it makes sense.
Ambusher was a CPOW role that did not work properly because of the message.
I think I am actually gigabraining, mister nuggy.
karmic granite
Ambusher was not bad in tos -
steady hornet
id say jinx and ambusher although mechanically the same play out differently across their games
hot galleon
well okay
I think its too swingy in both games
steady hornet
agreed
karmic granite
Yeah I don’t disagree
hot galleon
but
the message tm is mostly why
steady hornet
evils hard outing themselves as a punishment always suck in SDGs
ripe glen
That's why CK is BETTER than CPOW right now
steady hornet
i think BOTC does it really well for example
steady hornet
with roles like psycho and vizier (we will pretend im talking about live games)
karmic granite
In a game built around maj like this
steady hornet
vizier online is lul
karmic granite
It sucks
steady hornet
yeah
ripe glen
Because there are two distinct power role categories and CK was just powercrept entirely. Like, I think this is so good dude.
karmic granite
Being outted as a minion for misguessing damsel is the equivalent here
Even then u can play it off
ripe glen
You can count me amongst hard ritualist haters now, my brain just exploded
steady hornet
but the reward for guessing damsel far outweighs the punishment in most cases
karmic granite
Yuh
steady hornet
imagine rit just guesses a tpow correctly and hex bomb drops lmao
karmic granite
Also why does Jinx even have that punishment
steady hornet
to limit KP somehow
karmic granite
If you’re worried about its killpower just make it have three charges
steady hornet
^^
hot galleon
Because ambusher was too broken so bmg had to take it in their own hands to nerf it
hot galleon
If you’re worried about its killpower just make it have three charges
Guess what ambusher had in first inception
💀
hot galleon
Nope
steady hornet
oh wow
hot galleon
But it got it fairly fast
steady hornet
thats definitely a role!
steady hornet
either way im all for removing CK as a bucket
hot galleon
I do think limited charges is better because it also further reduces swing by capping how high it can roll
ripe glen
If you’re worried about its killpower just make it have three charges
Literally this.
If a role has three extra kills as a hardcap but no message, That's a CPOW. It's cracked, it's goated.
Why then does CK exist
karmic granite
Yeah
ripe glen
Yes
steady hornet
ck is like the most insanely powercrept thing to come to tos2
ripe glen
ck is like the most insanely powercrept thing to come to tos2
I am understanding EVERYTHING now.
karmic granite
ck is like the most insanely powercrept thing to come to tos2
Is it even
Like so much was powercrept
hot galleon
No the most powercrept thing is TI
karmic granite
Is it even
hot galleon
But
steady hornet
it's existence is the reason every thing else is powercrept
lol
Coven got more KP, so everyone else also needed more KP
thats how i see it
karmic granite
I mean Doom, Rit, VM, Dep, Seer
steady hornet
No the most powercrept thing is TI
ok TRUE but i was talking about KP
sorry
TI is also insanely powercrept
karmic granite
TI they added so many weak ones as well
steady hornet
(VM?)
karmic granite
But not actually good weak, like just useless weak
steady hornet
yeah the gap between the weakest TIs and strongest TIs is insane
karmic granite
Yeah
hot galleon
and picking the worst possible way to fix it lol
ripe glen
Well, we got rid of Spy, and Invest was TOXIC in TOS1
steady hornet
and now spy and invest are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of ti
karmic granite
Invest results were better than the anti claim roles for me personally
ripe glen
Good. Old Spy and Old Invest were toxic.
karmic granite
I’m not even gonna lie
steady hornet
isnt problematic
i think BMG just wanted to keep the intention of preventing communication when updating silence
but didnt realize how op removing a vote was
its literally reverse knight
ripe glen
Hear me out mister nugster,
Coven Power
Coven Leader (reworked)
Conjurer (Give it a second ability or something instead of ONLY the rock) (Mutually exclusive with Jinx)
Jinx (Hard cap at 3 charges, mutually exclusive with Conjurer, no more message TM)
Witch
Coven Killing being deleted would be like, so good.
karmic granite
Hear me out mister nugster,
**Coven Power**
Coven Leader (reworked)
Conjurer (...
If we did this tho we don’t even need conjurer and jinx mutually exclusive bc we have common coven !!
pine heath
hello nugget
karmic granite
Hihiii
ripe glen
If we did this tho we don’t even need conjurer and jinx mutually exclusive bc we...
That's actually so real, it just all fits together.
Why did this shit just not click until today
karmic granite
The only thing is
People will 100% complain about jinx being cpow
Even tho it works perfectly here imo
karmic granite
Let them s u f f e r
lethal wharf
abolishing CK entirely making this another alignment
Based
steady gale
I think that jinx can and should be overhauled to fit in a different slot
lethal wharf
Unpowercreeps your game
steady gale
it's unhealthy as is
steady hornet
i cant think of any jinx overhaul that isnt just worse starspawn
steady gale
dumping the ck in cpow as they are now though would open even more swing in the slot than there already is
like the difference between getting a role that contributes extra kills and a role that doesn't would be quite substantial in terms of game impact
even when comparing with the ultimate utility role that is witch
lethal wharf
I just want the extra kpn gone
ripe glen
I just want the extra kpn gone
Getting rid of CK is the future.
oak pecan
Conj becomes CPOW
Yeah, put conj in CPow and rework jinx, because current jinx is weak
Jinx rarely clutch the coven tho. Most of the time jinx just announces his identity to the whole town.
lethal wharf
Jinx/Ambusher is truly the worse designed role, can make the faction it's in have 2kpn, easily puts who they are, and has rng, this shit sucks
oak pecan
Jinx/Ambusher is truly the worse designed role, can make the faction it's in hav...
In theory jinx/ambusher could counter tp/Lo meta. But in reality it's not
ripe glen
It was supposed to be an anti-TP pocketing mechanic and an Anti-TPLO role in general, but Auditor and Starspawn do that way better.
steady gale
In the future, only conj gives an extra kill
or, better yet
what if
conj starts with 0 charges
but gets a charge if the book holder fails to kill
with some limitations
steady hornet
but gets a charge if the book holder fails to kill
this just becomes
- coven hits immune
- conj gets charge
- "oh shit get the immune"
steady hornet
OR this would be
- coven hits immune
- conj gets charge
- coven hits the same immune every night
- conj gets infinite charges
steady gale
with some limitations
limitations would be necessary
my idea is that conj can only get 2 meteors and it can't get them in back to back nights
so if you hit an immune n1, you get a charge, if you hit that same immune n2, you don't
same with any other method of "failing" to kill
the way I see it, it'd hold up conjurer's current purpose as a wallbreaker without contributing any real "extra kills" to the game
in the situation where you'd be using it, it'd just be maintaining coven's kpn
steady hornet
i mean then coven just moves their 2nd attack on the immune from n2 to n3
it doesn't really change the problem
steady gale
also I don't really want conj to be able to nuke nks anyways
steady hornet
which is the same reason why tos2 seer nerf failed
making players un-comparable for 1 night just means seer does it every other night, doesn't fix the problem with it
steady gale
it slows it down a good bit at least and prevents people being spammy
steady hornet
id rather a conj rework just take it in a new direction, this just feels like an unnecesary buff
oak pecan
- "oh shit get the immune"
It's only good in AA I suppose. In ranked you want to keep neutral alive in the early game.
steady gale
"an unnecessary buff"
the coven HAS to fail their night kill for it to act
it's a rework
because it literally can't add kpn to the game
steady hornet
except it DOES add kpn, you went from 0 kpn to 1 kpn
if a cleric saves someone, coven should be punished
steady gale
ya, that's what a backup does
steady hornet
coven does not deserve a fail safe for when they attack a cleric-protected person
that defeats the entire purpose of cleric
steady gale
if a cleric saves someone, coven should be punished
by being able to nuke them with the conj that always has a charge anyways
that's the purpose of conj
steady hornet
except with your proposed rework the conj would get multiple
oak pecan
It was supposed to be an anti-TP pocketing mechanic and an Anti-TPLO role in gen...
Well... Auditor and SS can't directly communicate with coven
steady gale
up to 2 just so it isn't pathetic
steady hornet
conj should just stick with 1
steady gale
although I would probably make it 1 if I could come up with a suitable extra ability for it to perform at night or something
steady hornet
the whole point is to lessen KPN, why are we powercreeping this role even more?
steady gale
conj right now can add on to the kpn of the coven with absolutely nothing necessary for it
you can kill every night and stack on to that with the meteor
making it so a kill had to be missed isn't powercreeping it
steady gale
although I would probably make it 1 if I could come up with a suitable extra abi...
and again
oak pecan
conj right now can add on to the kpn of the coven with absolutely nothing necess...
We probably need something like day ability TP?
steady gale
nah
if a role's job is to punish powerful roles for revealing themselves by bypassing protection, having something that could protect against that would defeat the purpose
like if the tpow can openly claim then just survive the meteor, what's the point of conj other than just to be an extra kill
steady hornet
either way im fully against giving conj more than 1 nuke
steady gale
what about the idea of coven having to fail the kill in order for conj to get one
steady gale
although I would probably make it 1 if I could come up with a suitable extra abi...
because AGAIN
oak pecan
like if the tpow can openly claim then just survive the meteor, what's the point...
Then conj is fine as it is now. No need to change conj
steady gale
that's the main idea of it
steady hornet
nope, there shouldn't be a failsafe for coven failing an attack
failing an attack should be a punishment
steady gale
so conj should stay as is
steady hornet
if someone is roleblocked, should they get to use their ability twice on the next night?
no, they should be punished by the roleblock
steady gale
or should it be overhauled with no day kill at all
steady hornet
letting them get around the roleblock defeats the purpose of the roleblock in the first place
steady gale
that'd be nice too if I'm being honest
oak pecan
By the way, this is ritualist thread.
steady hornet
but in no way should we be adding MORE kpn
steady hornet
ITS STILL KPN
i know blocking the attack -> conj gets nuke
but when a coven attack is blocked
steady gale
although I would probably make it 1 if I could come up with a suitable extra abi...
I am WILLING to make it 1
steady hornet
and that compromise makes cleric and oracle obsolete
steady gale
because it NEEDS to have a kill fail first
steady gale
conj is meant for ANTI TPLO
that's anti-tp
steady hornet
TPLO as in the meta...
steady gale
okay I'm gonna calm down a bit here
steady hornet
look we're just going in circles at this point lol
so ima state my case and you state yours
and we both stfu
lol
steady gale
the idea I had was that conj simply keeps its current purpose, but with a slight change in that it has to act as a backup
conjurer right now can very well make up for a failed kill to a tp, and you could make the exact same argument that it makes tp obsolete there
but I think that the point kinda is just to bypass tp
I kinda want it to have a night ability that's disconnected from the meteor as well, but I don't really know where to start with that
frozen jay
I don't really think this makes sense as a "coven killing" if it cannot kill anymore other then that i think this rework is good.
To me it makes more sense as a Utility coven as the idea is now it's job is to prevent Tps on powerful outed targets. Instead of directly killing anything.
lethal wharf
I don't really think this makes sense as a "coven killing" if it cannot kill any...
Tbf it sounds like we are abolishing Coven Killing
frozen jay
Should be
Conjurer can be moved to Power.
Jinx should be deleted
I really hate having independent consistent extra KPN
Jinx is the most swingy bs crapshoot role I've ever known, either is a role that is beyond useless or is a hard carry role that can double covens KPN, I don't get why it hasn't been changed so far
Coven should never have a role like Jinx
ripe glen
Having two "big guy" role sections (CPOW/CK) is ultimately harmful because "go go go kill rush " will generally be preferred to a CPOW every time.
frozen jay
I mean I consider Hex master more of a CK then a Cpow, with how powers are currently, but Coven Killing is a odd category that should just be removed.
ripe glen
I mean, when you think about it, it kind of is odd
Witch- super good
Hex- middling, it's okay but great book user
CL (pre-rework)- trash
Whereas CK's Conjurer is great, by default, Ritualist and Jinx are powder kegs that can and will blow up.
steady gale
the coven power slot feels like a smaller coven utility somewhat
just a collection of misfits
like you have the ultimate utility role, a role that does something no other coven role does and exclusively does that, and the by design book sponge that isn't even the best at it
lethal wharf
Man discord mobile is just broken on so many levels
Why is everything slightly pushed to the right
frozen jay
i hate discord mobile update -_-
steady seal
CL needs to be cpow
mint fiber
yeah it does mb
steady seal
if its going to be reworked
(i despise the concept of turning dw into vm)
its op as hell
maiden plover
In this rework, you don't get outted as Rit if you're wrong?
scarlet ledge
CPow: Conj, Jinx
CU: Rit
this is fine
visual mason
Jinx can go bye
no
visual mason
CPow: Conj, Jinx
CU: Rit
i don't like conjurer in cpow
it's too weak of a cpow role
then
it basically becomes a book hog role
since it can do...
1 thing
once
like damn bro didn't we JUST rework #1223286909925851147 to not be a fucking book-hog
😭
jinx is fine
ig
i am not saying conjurer in cpow is a bad idea
i am saying putting conjurer in cpow with no other changes to conjurer is a bad idea
and no i don't want the removal of the day-kill, the one daykill role that coven has is way more balanced then any of town's day-kills
jinx has better killing power lol
narrow rune
conjurer being a bookhog role is honestly a really cool niche
mint fiber
It would be so good
btw can you ping me when you reply to me? ty
ripe glen
btw can you ping me when you reply to me? ty
It wasn't necessarily something you needed to reply to, so I didn't bother that time.
mint fiber
the 5 cpow: hm witch conj jinx CL
I don't know which I would rather have over the other in a game of CTT
lethal wharf
I mean if conj is the only extra source of extra attacks that is also powerful, that is CPow worthy
lethal wharf
We can revert powercreep to make conj CPow work
ripe glen
We can revert powercreep to make conj CPow work
I was made a believer yesterday, this is possible.
lethal wharf
The tides of balance are changing, we are close to the golden times of TOS in general
We can fix tos2 with your help
visual mason
you guys do realise that 90% of modded changes are most likely NOT coming to base-game right? where 90% of the player-base is?
karmic granite
they can
visual mason
they CAN
karmic granite
nobody ever said 90% of changes aren't allowed to hapen
visual mason
but idk if they will
lethal wharf
can we get balancing/anti-powercreep propaganda?
karmic granite
I mean me either but like
I don't think its out of the question a lot of changes from modded will carry over
lethal wharf
you guys do realise that 90% of modded changes are most likely NOT coming to bas...
Also both of these percentages are incorrect
karmic granite
The entire intention with modded now is to use it as a testing ground for base game
lethal wharf
Alot of people play btos if I recall
And what nuggy said
Anyways who's good with Photoshop and can make propaganda?
ripe glen
you guys do realise that 90% of modded changes are most likely NOT coming to bas...
brother I haven't played base game in so long regardless.
I am a BetterTOS2 player now, that is what I wish to play until base game and modded have the dynamic of "Test Realm and Live Server" which will be a good long time.
karmic granite
point clearly obliterated
lethal wharf
Yeah what are you even talking about
ripe glen
Facts and Logic have killed me, I am now dead
karmic granite
fr
visual mason
The tides of balance are changing, we are close to the golden times of TOS in ge...
i see this as the golden age of modded
not tos2 in general because i don't think the game is going have massive rapid changes
karmic granite
Wait and see 🙂
mint fiber
Wait and see 🙂
karmic granite
they are going to add 80 dolar cosmetic
lethal wharf
not tos2 in general because i don't think the game is going have massive rapid c...
Did you forget the part where tuba and Curtis are bmg employees now?
visual mason
uh did you forget there are 5 other devs?
mint fiber
they are going to add 80 dolar cosmetic
of course
lethal wharf
They can really just point to btos2 stats and be like, yeah, these work
karmic granite
uh did you forget there are 5 other devs?
Did you forget the other devs also focus mainly in other areas
steady gale
We can revert powercreep to make conj CPow work
I would kinda like to see conj reworked a bit
lethal wharf
And unlike the other devs, curt and tuba did testing
karmic granite
And I dont think they are gonna deadass ignore curt and tuba when the mod's reception has been so positive
Mhm
Also they are just as much employees anyway
lethal wharf
I would kinda like to see conj reworked a bit
Conj is the perfect extra kill role
steady gale
not really, no
visual mason
And I dont think they are gonna deadass ignore curt and tuba when the mod's rece...
i never said fucking ignore
karmic granite
They aren't in a position where they just have to ask and hope shit can happen, ofc they need permission to do stuff but like, they can just do it
steady gale
it just instantly attacks someone during the day
visual mason
i am just saying there won't be MASSIVE SWEEPING changes
lethal wharf
it just instantly attacks someone during the day
Yeah, that's what makes it work?
visual mason
like the CK bucket dying in base-game i just don't see happening
steady gale
a single unpreventable kill
karmic granite
Assassin is probably the best form of Conjurer
But Conj will stay daykill
And I think its fine
steady gale
I wouldn't call that the perfect extra kill role
karmic granite
I would prefer it to be at night but it won't happen
Conj is basically perfect imo
mint fiber
I would prefer it to be at night but it won't happen
the thing is marsh exists
(the vanilla one)
lethal wharf
I wouldn't call that the perfect extra kill role
Compared to everything else in CK it's a fucking saint
lethal wharf
This has become a discussion about CK in general and the effects of powercreep
And I think that's fine
karmic granite
Tuba and Curt are defo trying to focus on reducing the power creep tos 2 has had
not at all related to playing botc
mint fiber
hot take: I don't think jinx needs reworks
narrow rune
ya wrong
lethal wharf
Did you force them to play botc lmao?
mint fiber
I like it as is
karmic granite
Myeh I mean
karmic granite
Did you force them to play botc lmao?
Curt has played it a bit Tuba has played quite a few games of it
Funk is completely obsessed with it LMFAO
lethal wharf
hot take: I don't think jinx needs reworks
Ok so your fine with a role that's complete rng on who it kills, the potential to give coven 2kpn, and can very easily reveal itself as a evil role?
mint fiber
Ok so your fine with a role that's complete rng on who it kills, the potential t...
I like Jinx, so I guess yes
narrow rune
...
lethal wharf
3 wrongs don't make a right, it makes a dumpster fire
lethal wharf
The issue is what the fuck are we doing with jinx?
narrow rune
The issue is what the fuck are we doing with jinx?
visit guessing
lethal wharf
That sounds incredibly stupid
narrow rune
i posted a rework using this
mint fiber
jinx is the high risk high reward role and I like it as is
narrow rune
That sounds incredibly stupid
its cool as hell
lethal wharf
If it kills I'm not on board
karmic granite
guys lets make Jinx make it so that if u visit someone who u visited and u btoh tivisted at the snaem itiem bedcasially what it does it s that it chooses one o the fvisitors who also visited and they uh like uh you lol like uh kill htem basicaly
narrow rune
If it kills I'm not on board
we are abolishing cks
narrow rune
guys lets make Jinx make it so that if u visit someone who u visited and u btoh ...
what
mint fiber
guys lets make Jinx make it so that if u visit someone who u visited and u btoh ...
i dont speak botc sorry
steady gale
Compared to everything else in CK it's a fucking saint
that's not exactly saying much though
karmic granite
i dont speak botc sorry
yes botc surely
ripe glen
we are abolishing cks
This is so real.
karmic granite
I love the jinx role in botc
steady gale
like ya conj is completely and totally inoffensive compared to jinx
narrow rune
i like cks but if toomba wants removing cks im down
narrow rune
like ya conj is completely and totally inoffensive compared to jinx
its not a problemo tho
steady gale
but I'd still rather not have it completely copied and pasted to the coven power slot with no changes
narrow rune
Honestly give it more charges or infinite, I don't think 3 works but idk
id rather not
ripe glen
i like cks but if toomba wants removing cks im down
Going full TOS1 mode is such a grand vision
lethal wharf
Y'know what else sucks ass, most tps can kill in some way shape or form
karmic granite
fr
mint fiber
Going full TOS1 mode is such a grand vision
ripe glen
I think Trapper and BG are fine, Tuba has mentioned a Crus rework before.
steady gale
I've been thinking that crus should be reworked to be a non-kill capable tp
lethal wharf
Trickster is a TK but it really is a tp
narrow rune
I think Trapper and BG are fine, Tuba has mentioned a Crus rework before.
yeah bouncer crus
narrow rune
tuba wants it a normal rb
ripe glen
This can be Coven Power.
narrow rune
id rather it be a bounce
mint fiber
This can be Coven Power.
nice
visual mason
neither should crus
narrow rune
Trapper shouldn't kill imo
negating one single attack
lethal wharf
Bouncer crus is based
visual mason
but make crus a bouncer
- this finally means crus can go on tp/lo
:3
kinda
not really
lethal wharf
I also kinda like the idea of trapper where it only sees evil roles and breaks on evil roles but if a attacker kills a trapped player, they just get superblocked for the next night
lethal wharf
I took would be at home for a entire night fixing my leg that got snatched
It stops the attack
narrow rune
wait so it stops 2 attacks?
lethal wharf
Just instead of killing it rbs
narrow rune
thats pretty broken
lethal wharf
Not really, because it would've normally killed them
Coven has book passing anyways
narrow rune
just negate the attack
narrow rune
Coven has book passing anyways
well we shouldnt force them to book pass if a certain role spawns
lethal wharf
And the nk would be given another chance
It's more you are forced to constantly book pass to new coven members
narrow rune
just cuz you remove trappers kill doesnt mean we make the attacker basically be dead
narrow rune
It's more you are forced to constantly book pass to new coven members
that shouldnt be forced
lethal wharf
Honestly I disagree, it keeps the coven on their toes
narrow rune
theyre already on their toes
lethal wharf
I would agree if coven tmk existed but it doesn't
narrow rune
dude.
lethal wharf
Keep them on their pinky toe
narrow rune
we arent having swingy ass interactions with book
just so you can have your nostalgia relic that never even existed
lethal wharf
But like, tmk worked?
narrow rune
so?
lethal wharf
It has been tested several times
narrow rune
it doesnt work in tos2
lethal wharf
But it really could?
narrow rune
hm, cl and necro are proof of it
lethal wharf
How?
narrow rune
astral, powerful+rb immune, ghoul
lethal wharf
In fact the cl rework is a tmk related role if I recall
lethal wharf
I'm pretty sure it was
narrow rune
last i checked the mafia didnt have a role called pit hag
narrow rune
lethal wharf
It was called either underboss or capo- something
I know pit hag eixsts
This role existed before pit hag
lethal wharf
From how it exactly works it does
narrow rune
the book attack should only ever be 'whoever you visit is dealt a basic attack on top of your base abilities'
lethal wharf
The tmk role had 3 charges that can change a player to a different role of the same subalignment
small crest
last i checked the mafia didnt have a role called pit hag
yeah correct
but
TMK also didnt exist (necro passing)
TMK was basicaly necro passing suggested in tos1 it was called tactical maf killing
narrow rune
outside of hm and necro there arent any weird book interactions
which is what i hate about tmk
ripe glen
An actual ability that isn't "You can choose between being role block immune or basic defense"
narrow rune
yeah i mean i like the idea of the factional leader having an ability centered around the attack
but jesus christ
wtf is that
steady gale
it also had fancy/stupid interactions
I always saw those as a way to rework gf, mafioso, and ambusher instead of just outright removing them
ripe glen
outside of hm and necro there arent any weird book interactions
Illusionist has a weird book interaction technically. I'm not sure if that's going to stay long-term if random kill stuff is nerfed across the board, starting with Ritualist and Deputy. Whatever Tuba decides, I'm excited to see what is inside of his mind.
narrow rune
i am interested as well
steady gale
since gf and mafioso would both be super lame and ambusher was notoriously problematic
narrow rune
I always saw those as a way to rework gf, mafioso, and ambusher instead of just ...
yeah but there are cooler ways
that dont involve swing depending on who is killing
my jinx and cl reworks for example
ripe glen
since gf and mafioso would both be super lame and ambusher was notoriously probl...
The GF Mafioso combo was problematic. Your only deal was "Immune to role blocks, but you have two Mafia members doing nothing apart from the nightly kill, and two doing something."
narrow rune
The GF Mafioso combo was problematic. Your only deal was "Immune to role blocks,...
yeah i was never a fan
steady gale
The GF Mafioso combo was problematic. Your only deal was "Immune to role blocks,...
yes
that's why tmk was tossed around as an idea
steady gale
so mafia could actually have a comp
narrow rune
1 basic scumreading later
ripe glen
With Ritualist nerf and CK removal, you could totally have CPOWer, 3 Common Coven. Or CPOW, CD, 2 Common Coven.
There would just never be 18 killing Coven roles at the same time.
narrow rune
and mafia cant do shit
steady gale
but then with tmk you kinda leave the whole "mafia killing" subalignment to rot if you don't rework them
narrow rune
With Ritualist nerf and CK removal, you could totally have CPOWer, 3 Common Cove...
i still wanna keep cks a thing just by throttling the fuck out of them
you know how much i hate independant kills but i also hate it when kill patterns are stale
steady gale
I don't really think the coven needs extra kill power in addition to the normal night kill
plus removing that would allow for a lot of rebalancing across the board
where, for example, town wouldn't need nearly as much power
and neutrals could be stronger
small crest
well if this rework gets added its CU pretty much
then conju and jinx becomes mutually exclusive pretty much goes back to tos 1
narrow rune
where, for example, town wouldn't need nearly as much power
honestly my solution to that bit was pretty simple
more players
ripe glen
but then with tmk you kinda leave the whole "mafia killing" subalignment to rot ...
That's true, but MK = CPOW, so most of that work has already been done with CL rework, and throwing Conj and Jinx in there. Maybe removing Hex to CU.
The "kill pattern" isn't stale, but it's not a kill rush.
narrow rune
16p games would be significantly more interesting
steady gale
more players for coven's >1 kpn to work through
ripe glen
well if this rework gets added its CU pretty much
then conju and jinx becomes m...
Yeah, I am liking this more and more.
It's possible, and we can do it.
narrow rune
well if this rework gets added its CU pretty much
then conju and jinx becomes m...
it would be cool if jinx could be made to mirror this rit
small crest
i dont think that matters
narrow rune
visit guessing is an untapped niche
steady gale
I actually thought about that in great length at some point, and making more townies just to justify coven being able to kill them faster is kinda dumb to me
narrow rune
and would be really cool for stopping tps from outting who they on
mint fiber
im very confused, whats tmk
narrow rune
I actually thought about that in great length at some point, and making more tow...
its not why i want that
ripe glen
im very confused, whats tmk
Book Passing in TOS1 basically.
mint fiber
Book Passing in TOS1 basically.
oh
cool
narrow rune
its because games can end really quick with just 1-2 mislynches
narrow rune
even if town gets evils out
small crest
its because games can end really quick with just 1-2 mislynches
yes
steady gale
like a 10v5 with a guaranteed ck
narrow rune
i want more townies to give more freedom in nerfing town
steady gale
where town starts with a big advantage but coven can just kill more people to make up for it
narrow rune
to make it more of a 'many but weak' vs 'few but strong'
i have a buncha 11v5 lists which are really neat
ripe glen
even if town gets evils out
I mean, there is only one CPOW per game usually, so having Jinx/Conjurer mutually exclusive would severely limit the extra kills, and it is possible that neither spawn.
1 guaranteed (Conjurer)
Variable but hard to get (Ambusher)
None but very useful in other ways (Coven Leader, Witch)
steady gale
you'd have to basically cripple town I would imagine
narrow rune
I mean, there is only one CPOW per game usually, so having Jinx/Conjurer mutuall...
i mean without extra kills
mint fiber
ripe glen
Coven Power, very real.
steady gale
I mean, there is only one CPOW per game usually, so having Jinx/Conjurer mutuall...
I actually think that this adds quite a bit more swing to the slot
steady gale
the difference between a role that adds extra kills on top of the night kill and a role that doesn't
mint fiber
the mk slot was useful for chaos lists
narrow rune
n1 10v5
n2 8v5 assuming mislynch
n3 7v4 assuming good lynch
n4 5v4 assuming mislynch
d5 4v4
small crest
I mean BTOS1 backs up this very well
mint fiber
Well you have CL (GF) Conj (KP) Jinx (Amb) Hex Master, and Witch
those are worthy of the power slot
steady gale
but I guess it doesn't really add much more swing to the game than extra kill roles being able to spawn normally
narrow rune
vms an actual gamechanger while witch is just... witch
ripe glen
I actually think that this adds quite a bit more swing to the slot
Coven Leader
Conjurer / Ambusher mutually exclusive
This has been done before. And thanks to Common Coven you won't have all four Coven be CPOW.
(Hex Master can be moved to CU, if Tuba sees fit)
steady seal
we need to rework the alignments it seems
mint fiber
nah witch is one of coven's strongest roles and vmer is slightly weaker
steady gale
vms an actual gamechanger while witch is just... witch
I would rather rework vm to not block votes
steady seal
hm is fucking op
narrow rune
cl is pit hag, conj is a kill, jinx is also kill, hm is a wincon, vm is a pseudo kill rn
steady gale
because I think it'd dumb
mint fiber
but an opinion is an opinion and im leaving now
steady seal
it counters death, arsonist by existing
narrow rune
I would rather rework vm to not block votes
yeah i did a nerf to it
steady gale
and if you try to change vm to better fit cpow while keeping the vote block, it's gonna be more dumb
narrow rune
ripe glen
Just going straight to what worked in TOS1 , I do not see how that could be an issue, there is solid evidence here.
steady seal
HM shouldnt exist in the same game as a soul collector and arsonist
its stupid how the biggest evil faction has counters to death and arsonist
narrow rune
hm is fine as a secondary wincon
ripe glen
HM shouldnt exist in the same game as a soul collector and arsonist
It won't because we are balancing for TT / Hypothetical Coven Ranked match (you cannot find it in Casual Q)
Not All Any.
narrow rune
it has some insane swing issue if it dies or not
steady seal
It won't because we are balancing for TT / Hypothetical Coven Ranked match (you ...
if i see any fucking “we dont balance around all any”
ripe glen
I'm just saying.
narrow rune
It won't because we are balancing for TT / Hypothetical Coven Ranked match (you ...
what about a town v coven v nk lists
steady gale
HM shouldnt exist in the same game as a soul collector and arsonist
I agree with this take, actually
narrow rune
those would be cool
steady gale
I'm really not a fan of hm as a concept
narrow rune
i mean could give it the horseman treatment
steady gale
ya, it really punches down on other anti-stalling roles
steady seal
It won't because we are balancing for TT / Hypothetical Coven Ranked match (you ...
anyways
arso can appear in ranked no?
ripe glen
arso can appear in ranked no?
Not Coven Ranked, that is Curtis' list.
narrow rune
'the hex master has hexed the whole town, soon it will be bombed' or some shit
steady gale
like there are roles that rely on the exact same condition that hm does that can have the hex bomb end up coming first
steady seal
'the hex master has hexed the whole town, soon it will be bombed' or some shit
it has no warning while NK hm has a day warning
lol
narrow rune
it has no warning while NK hm has a day warning
yeah ik
ripe glen
what about a town v coven v nk lists
Maybe a "base game ranked" ish role list would work better after reducing the kill rush, maybe banning Hex Master from those lists.
4 Coven, Neutral Pariah, Neutral Killing.
steady gale
I don't ever want a hex bomb to follow a lynch
steady gale
because you know they'd find a way to make that have priority over death
steady seal
hex master should provide debuffs instead of a fucking anti arsonist / death bomb