Warlock - Apocalypse (2nd Death Acolyte)

[light bloom]

in btos2

as a "faction"

why break down this

[cyan wolf]

its not really being set up and more of being held at gunpoint

[light bloom]

ok but DTT

[cyan wolf]

well to save whats left of em really

[cyan wolf]

dtt sucks tho

[mighty hull]

I think there is merit in having a second faction

[light bloom]

dtt does not suck

tf you on

[mighty hull]

I think having a second faction that doesn't work is bad

[proper laurel]

balance wise it sucks

[cyan wolf]

there is merit

but why do it

like why with apoc

[proper laurel]

it just cant be a coven all any scenario

where we make too many evil

[mighty hull]

For a game such as this? Content

[fiery hinge]

I'm fine with it...I just had a pretty bad experience when I played it, but that was due to Hysteria fcuking me over with an Invest catching me, lmao.

[proper laurel]

hysteria sucks

[cyan wolf]

yeah but why not start from scratch if you want a fresh faction

[proper laurel]

it should have never been added

[cyan wolf]

it doth not help illu at all

[light bloom]

because what is apoc other than a worse NK if not a faction

[mighty hull]

I mean yes I'm of the opinion that this is superior to apoc

[cyan wolf]

theyre literally better nks

[mighty hull]

But I am also very aware of how much time this would take

[cyan wolf]

fyo?

[light bloom]

more like NCs at that point

[junior orbit]

On the upside tho amazing marketing potential

[mighty hull]

As much as I'd love to see a rendition of something like idfk

[cyan wolf]

i mean we could just steal ptns keres

[junior orbit]

"We added an entire ass new faction"

[cyan wolf]

not at all

[mighty hull]

Crew or Keres Cult

[primal oriole]

Jackal:

[junior orbit]

ptn's keres

[cyan wolf]

theyre perfectly functioning nks

[proper laurel]

"we also forgot to balance said faction"

🔥

[junior orbit]

Keres was made for TOS first

[mighty hull]

Me when keres was originally made for tos

[cyan wolf]

well even better

[mighty hull]

Yeah

[junior orbit]

Also Keres is bad tho

[light bloom]

i want apoc as a faction, i don't want a another "new faction", we can make apoc work

[cyan wolf]

i did steal keres for wtos

[light bloom]

tf is kerees??

[junior orbit]

It's apoc

It's like Apocoven

[light bloom]

i have never heard keres

[cyan wolf]

yeah but at this point we might as well give up

[mighty hull]

Keres is a faction centered around a main contingent turning a lost wolf player into a KP monster

[junior orbit]

From what I have heard in actual play testing it just ends up playing like Apoc exactly

[proper laurel]

isnt d3 death possible with warlock

[mighty hull]

To summarize it anyway

[cyan wolf]

nobody wants what the other side is selling

[junior orbit]

yh good summary

[proper laurel]

or am i tripping

i am

[cyan wolf]

ah

shame

well anyways

[junior orbit]

I have more faction ideas but I need time to develop them more

It aint easy

[cyan wolf]

ive been into deceit lately

[junior orbit]

ooh

I only know about it bc of one youtuber but it seems cool

[cyan wolf]

fucking peak ass game

[cyan wolf]

it is

you should play it

[mighty hull]

I have considered doing something like my tos1 coven overhaul but I think I'd need to tinker with a lot of roles and like

Uuuuugh

Effort

[proper laurel]

what is deceit

[delicate pendant]

I think that the coven kinda covers a bit too broad for a second faction to truly stand out

[cyan wolf]

i used to be obsessed with it

[junior orbit]

OOH YEAH I legit forgot you were responsible for that, I loved that

[cyan wolf]

6-9 player game where theres 2 infected and 1 cursed

[delicate pendant]

it'd be hard to make a balanced second faction without people labelling it as "coven 2.0"

[light bloom]

wow that a really fucking optimistic mindset that isn't just a total mood killer

"just give up bro"

[cyan wolf]

the infected have to activate Weakpoints to enter the Inbetween where they can transform and kill people

[tender lava]

glad mentioned

[fiery hinge]

I think there'll probably be:

Apoc Killing: (Bers and Alts).
Apoc Power: (Soul Collector and Warlock).
Apoc Support: (PB, Baker, and their Alts).
Horsemen: (War and Pest).
Common Apoc: (Any non-transformed Apoc that doesn't kill directly.)
Random Apoc: (Any non-transformed Apoc).
Any Apoc: (ANY Apoc-aligned role, including Horsemen).

[cyan wolf]

well giving up has worked for a lot of things

whats one more

[proper laurel]

too many rolebuckets for my brain to function

[tender lava]

you are pessimistic as fuck my guy

holy shit

[delicate pendant]

NOW we're getting somewhere

[cyan wolf]

only for specific things

[delicate pendant]

give the apoc more buckets than the coven

[fiery hinge]

Preach. 🙏

[cyan wolf]

im very optimistic over a lot

[delicate pendant]

for half the roles

[tender lava]

any apoc isn't needed

at all

[light bloom]

THERE IS 0 FUCKING REASON TO GIVE UP ON APOC WITHOUT TRYING
WARLOCK IS ATLEAST TRYING BRO
IT'S TUBA TIPPING HIS TOES INTO THE WATER

i fucking hate this doomer/moody ass attiude of apoc you have gotten since your suggestion got turned down
Like bro your fighting with tuba it seems like every time he's fucking online

[tender lava]

so it'd be tied at 6

[delicate pendant]

ya, true

[fiery hinge]

It's mainly due to the nuance of the transforming aspect...and who knows, maybe a 3rd Alt could be a thing in the future? 👀

[cyan wolf]

i havent fought with tuba since forever

[junior orbit]

Btw how would people feel about a faction (flavour-wise, anyway) that had an asthetic of Cluedo or other murder mystery party - esque games

[light bloom]

????

litterally yesterday over baker/famine?

[cyan wolf]

wdym

[fiery hinge]

👀 My curiosity is piqued.

[light bloom]

wdym

[cyan wolf]

thats not got to do with my suggestion

[junior orbit]

Like all of the members of the evil faction are like, people who would be in a really high class party or smth

[mighty hull]

Mmmmmm now I'm brainstorming something

Lmao

[tender lava]

oh so like

[light bloom]

look at the bottom of my statement

[fiery hinge]

OH TARNATION, SPEAKING OF APOC.

[tender lava]

Evil Autocracy

[junior orbit]

Does it seem like interesting theming or boring

Yes!

[delicate pendant]

make a faction with tol bleed mechanics

!!!

[light bloom]

ah i see
so the government
i agree that the government is bad

[tender lava]

honestly

an evil Autocracy faction doesn't sound bad

it just depends on how it's done

[cyan wolf]

anarchy?

[tender lava]

their mechanic should be greed and corruption

[cyan wolf]

we gonna get a coup detat faction?

[light bloom]

acutally imma delete what i said, idk if class based violence is not against the rules

[delicate pendant]

it wouldn't really work that well flavor/lore wise I don't think

since the tpow already represent the town's government

[tender lava]

the government existed back then what

[light bloom]

also true

[tender lava]

not entirely

[light bloom]

uh....

[cyan wolf]

... hm

[junior orbit]

I think a corrupt higher class being an evil faction would be funny

[light bloom]

oh wait

shadow government

[tender lava]

the town is also corrupt in tos1 lore

[lethal mist]

Auditor and Judge are members of the government and Neutral Pariahs

[cyan wolf]

what about secret army?

[mighty hull]

Revenge of the socialite real

[tender lava]

this

can work

and yeah Audi and judge are corrupt gov

[light bloom]

btw is "Ironically" promoting class-based violence allowed

[fiery hinge]

"Now the Agent of Chaos has transformed into Executioner, Destroyer of People's Will to Live, and Horseman of the Apocalypse!"

[junior orbit]

dunno ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[light bloom]

ok so if i said

[cyan wolf]

idea: faction of tts

[light bloom]

and this is a uhhh

[cyan wolf]

how would that sound

[junior orbit]

for legal reasons it is a joke?

[light bloom]

"theorical": we should all kill billionares

yeah for legal reasons this a joke i swear

[junior orbit]

I mean simply a whimsical jape I see no issues here

[light bloom]

anyway

backtowards our thing

yeah sure

shadow governemnt would be cool

but i...

i still want apoc to work man 😭

[cyan wolf]

what would they do

[delicate pendant]

is it "all kill billionaires" or "kill all billionaires"?

[light bloom]

difference?

[delicate pendant]

those both imply very different things

[cyan wolf]

we shouldnt think about the flavor first

[light bloom]

anyway

[cyan wolf]

what would make them stand out

their dynamic

how they work

[junior orbit]

I alr have ideas

[light bloom]

@cyan wolf i am still not giving up on apoc

[cyan wolf]

hm

[junior orbit]

BUT I AM KEEPING THEM BEHIND CLOSED DOORS JUST AS THEY WOULD

[delicate pendant]

conversion

[cyan wolf]

my idea is tt faction

[light bloom]

also what is their main mechanic behind how their roles function so it's not just
coven 2.0/mafia 2.0/apoc 2.0/among us 2.0

[cyan wolf]

DONT YOU MCFUCKING DARE

[junior orbit]

I think having a strong sense of identity is still important bc genuinely people will judge it based on that

[primal oriole]

How do you cross out text

[mighty hull]

Too late

[light bloom]

~~ on each side

[primal oriole]

(And spoiler for that matter)

[junior orbit]

Like genuinely its kinda crazy how having a strong core idea or catch can make an idea more successful with people

[cyan wolf]

again, what about tt faction

[junior orbit]

Hrmm

[light bloom]

|| on each side

[primal oriole]

~e~

[cyan wolf]

i have the legion

[light bloom]

that's just TiS

[light bloom]

no 2 on each side

[junior orbit]

I'm not against having a TT mechanic outside of TT, but tuba has said in the past he doesn't think it works

[cyan wolf]

dam

[primal oriole]

m

[cyan wolf]

well legion parasites staying in nspec

[junior orbit]

I mean see:
Three Musketeers
Mermaid
My dumbass admirer rework which is actually brilliant I swear

[primal oriole]

Nice

[cyan wolf]

your admirer rework is hell nunny

[junior orbit]

Golem doesn't count

[mighty hull]

Golem is the funny

[cyan wolf]

i still cant believe you posted that

[junior orbit]

Fanzazz golem is a great idea

[mighty hull]

We love fanzazz

[lethal mist]

funny suggestion: add goon or cult leader :)

[junior orbit]

Which

[mighty hull]

I mean golem

[cyan wolf]

OOO OO

MY OLD IDEA

[junior orbit]

BRILL

[primal oriole]

||spoiler||

[cyan wolf]

THE SHIT I COULDNT GET WORK

[light bloom]

im going to hell

im going to hell

im going to hell

im going to hell

im going to hell

im going to hell

[cyan wolf]

basically i had this weird idea for an nk type role

[junior orbit]

ruh roh gang

[lethal mist]

enjoy the demons i guess :)

[light bloom]

if you know WHY i am going to hell? uh don't say

[cyan wolf]

where the nk would be 'possessing' a townie

the townie doesnt know this

[mighty hull]

Wait

[cyan wolf]

nor do they win with the nk

imagine if that was a whole faction

[mighty hull]

Oh it's lleech

[low kite]

Nah, I believe I recall Tuba saying before that there would be specifically a War subalignment if and only if it came down to Bers having an alt. 1 War acolyte (and only 1) would need to spawn every game of ApocTT. But not every game needs a PB.

So

Apocalypse (War)
Random Apoc
Common Apoc (Pandora lists would use Common Apoc instead of adding both Berserker and Gladiator to the ban list.)

[cyan wolf]

yeah leech

but its actual 2 people in one body

[junior orbit]

lleech in tos

yay

[fiery hinge]

Ah, makes sense. It'd probably be wise to not include the Horseman list into True Any, for...obvious reasons.

[cyan wolf]

i did add leech to apoc

except it wasnt 2 people in one body it was just a townie being apocs vip

[light bloom]

"support"
"power"
these man names mean nothing
SC/warlock isn't powerful, only death is because it's a apoc win-con

baker and plaguebearer don't help in the slightest
and why the fuck does any apoc exist

no, if alts do some to full form (i don't want them to i want apoc to have a total overhual)
it will be
Apoc War
Apoc Death
Apoc Famine
Apoc Pestilience
Random Apoc
Common Apoc

AW
AD
AF
AP
RA
CA

no bullshit random names like "apoc power"

[mighty hull]

Have considered a TT NK but
The actual TT NK I've ran doesn't really work in tos because UI bad smh

[light bloom]

unless you fucking acutally overhual apoc, these names don't mean shit

espically since baker/pb famine/pest doens't support shit lmaooooooooooooo

😭

Sorry if this is brutal as fuck

but just

no

just no

anyway @junior orbit if apoc does fall apart

then sure, a shadow government... second faction... would be... cool ig?

[cyan wolf]

closest ive got to a tt nk rn is amne

[mighty hull]

Yeah no the one I ran is flat out

[cyan wolf]

and thats cuz amnes just ret but soloist and no limitations

[junior orbit]

Would it be lame if it was like a Masquerade faction like a murder mystery dinner party thing, but just with high class sort of people there ofc

[mighty hull]

You are assigned a pseudo class and given its abilities to use alongside your kill

[cyan wolf]

imagine an anon faction who doesnt win with each other

they dont know each other

they can talk to each other

assign whos gonna kill

[mighty hull]

That sounds really bad actually

[cyan wolf]

etc

[cyan wolf]

yeah im just spitballing shit

[junior orbit]

Is it a joke bc thats not an actual faction or

Aur

[fiery hinge]

That works as well, I was just trying to categorize them.
Killing is obvious.
Power is due to the win-con, similar to HM.
and Support is due to PB basically being Wildling Ultra, and Baker being Potion Master Supreme.

[light bloom]

ok but

baker and pb are still set-up

as solo roles

that's just there to boost them

[cyan wolf]

man why the fuck am i looking at deceit forums

[light bloom]

lmao

[cyan wolf]

its a fucking fps

[mighty hull]

I love designing roles around an FPS

[light bloom]

man i love butchering roles to fit in a fps (bloxston mystery)

[cyan wolf]

unironically tho the infected are peak evil team

[mighty hull]

More fun than tol design space that has been occupying my head recently 💀

[cyan wolf]

theyre geniunely so good

and theyve just scratched the surface

vampires confirmed to come back

im so hyped

its my third fav

[light bloom]

makes a FPS game
still adds surv
i still think the BM devs are high as shit

[mighty hull]

Setup design
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1232481174547595294/1239387721378697339/image.png?ex=66436603&is=66421483&hm=cee97fd5d624b44a014d73d8b8bb6c1c237952e831cd0e8b416ee51881079f05&

[light bloom]

anyway

[cyan wolf]

why do you have a head explody button

[mighty hull]

It makes sense in context with the rest of the role

[light bloom]

i would still love to see an apoc overhual that isn't coven/mafia 2.0 or just stolen form another game (not a diss on you fucker i like your suggestion)

[mighty hull]

But this image is really funny

[marsh oxide]

Man I really did start a full on argument

[cyan wolf]

mines openly stolen from botc so no hate taken

[mighty hull]

Role itself is still cursed as shit but it does have a cohesive kit

[light bloom]

wait what

[cyan wolf]

i just hate it when people claim its coven 2.0 when its clearly more like botc

[cyan wolf]

yeah its a vip system

strict 1kpn

[light bloom]

ok hold i read your shit BEFORE playing botc

ok tmw imma have an entire re-read

[cyan wolf]

i inversed the killt hing so the vip doesnt kill tho

[mighty hull]

Actual answer
It's a role that's meant to transfer the bleeding to other players in order to kill them

But most bleeding comes from evils

So it has self bleed button

[cyan wolf]

bruh

i thought it was a berserker type where it got power from bloodshed

so when its dying it gets to do its thing

[mighty hull]

No it's town lol

[cyan wolf]

not the nk berserker

i meant actual berserker

[mighty hull]

It can also kill itself on accident

[cyan wolf]

what

[mighty hull]

The bleeding transfer can get interrupted

If that happens twice

You bleed out

[cyan wolf]

jesus christ

[light bloom]

just have the chronomaster save you

[light bloom]

the most fucking broken shit ever

[mighty hull]

Price you pay to be a guiltless town killer

[light bloom]

oh wait different game

[mighty hull]

Surprisingly no it wasn't

Like flat out
It just wasn't

Anyway uh ignoring this tangent

Apoc design is a moment

[cyan wolf]

im ngl im too busy suggesting the infected be able to charge a sprint at night

for ambush tactics

[light bloom]

yeah

i want

apoc

to work

i want apoc to fucking work bro

it can work

]

the factions main mechanic

being transformation

a faction that can actually support each other

since pb baker berseker and warlock do nothing for each other

it's possible

i just don't know how

i could think of maybe something myself but

ugh nothing comes to mind

and nothing copying form other games

they don't have to be soloists

because

...

[cyan wolf]

thats where they shine

[light bloom]

they CAN work together

they can

i swear they can

[cyan wolf]

yeah but theyre meant to be soloists

[light bloom]

bro why am i shaking so hard rn

fuc

[cyan wolf]

let them have their old identity

we can have cs be the secondary evil team

or jackal

everyone loves jackal

[light bloom]

we can make apoc work

[cyan wolf]

yeah but at this point i dont wanna

i want na back

i want to see horsemen v horsemen

i want pestilence to bitchslap war again

[light bloom]

i just made all of this up

you know what is really funny the way i set this up, alts can still work for the main 4

@cyan wolf just gonna throw this out there lol

[tender lava]

corruption

[late ledge]

apoc boost? now have I got the role for that #1216624065171689533 message

[light bloom]

1. i made this when i was tired as fuck

2. yeah no apoc boost sucks lmao