medusa just becomes pm2?
#Coven Role Balancing
quick girder
or what does "recognized" mean
recognized just seems like weird word choice ngl
maybe make it "exposed"
but also giving coven up to 3kp (4 if including pois) per night doesnt seem like a good idea
coven needs the extra "damage" coming from the CL inorder to deal with neutrals
if you have 4 cov vs 3 apoc, and cl cant kill any apocs, apocs just win dude
like
even 4 cov vs 2 apoc arguably
its not arguable, coven needs some way to deal with the neutrals that have defence
list of my opinions:
ench: good change
illusionist: maybe?
jinx: strong, could use some work
necro: good
pm: good
wildling: sure why not
rit: eh? rit alr reveals itself if it gets something wrong so like
CL: bad change
dw: wasnt this alr mentioned for btos?
pois: no
medusa: confusion but no, its like vet but coven and worse
cl needs to be changed, yes, but it should still have the attack power imo
warped blade
Okay so Enchanter's change doesn't really affect much
quick girder
2/16 roles (keep in mind cov is limited to 4) having the potential to kill a RIVAL FACTION that can also have up to 4 roles is really bad, 3/16 is still unlikely but its better
warped blade
It's an ability that would work better in the first game for Coven, since they all have different cause of death messages
elfin forge
^^
warped blade
But with a faction such as this one, and Mafia in the first game, it rarely serves its purpose
elfin forge
If theres no Coven kills, then Ench is basically outted if noone claims attacked
quick girder
it also makes altering take longer
elfin forge
Well the fact one exists
quick girder
a neutral that hides info from town could be cool (or maybe evils aswell? depends if its NP or NE/NK)
i dont understand why you think coven having one more role, out of 16, able to deal with neutrals is bad
elfin forge
a neutral that hides info from town could be cool (or maybe evils aswell? depend...
Im assuming you mean all Town?
quick girder
Im assuming you mean all Town?
yeah
like it can kill, basic attack, and it has infinite uses of a alter-like ability
that can also change the kill msg
gaunt cave
Here's why CL shouldn't get the dumb powerful attack: 9/10 time you kills some NE that would've helped you
also
quick girder
maybe shroud could be changed to something like that because people love hating shroud
gaunt cave
doom dying because coven having CL is stupid
quick girder
doom dying because coven having CL is stupid
this is fair
but removing it also removes ways coven can counter apoc
elfin forge
like it can kill, basic attack, and it has infinite uses of a alter-like ability
Magician - Neutral (Killing)
- Choose a player to kill
- You may change their cause of death, role, last will
Ive seen this before
It was also called Mystery Killer i think
gaunt cave
Unironically I think that @lethal bobcat is one of the few people with good suggestions and takes in this server.
quick girder
list of my opinions:
ench: good change
illusionist: maybe?
jinx: strong, could u...
i agree with most of the changes, i might be able to be conviced on CL but the pois/medusa ones also seem weird
warped blade
Illusionist's is fine
quick girder
im just against the CL change becuase of apocolyps
quick girder
maybe make it so CL can attack other "factions" with extra power? idk
warped blade
Jinx's is weird, I don't think it fixes the problem with Jinx at all
warped blade
seems interesting
It'll rarely get utilized because 95% of the time it'll be changing the Coven kill
quick girder
Jinx's is weird, I don't think it fixes the problem with Jinx at all
it also just buffs jinx
warped blade
it also just buffs jinx
Which is fine but Jinx is a flawed role in general
Yes Ambusher is flawed too
gaunt cave
But yeah saying that CL doesn't need a change is as bad of a take as vigi having 2 bullets instead of 3
elfin forge
Love it when instead of removing TheMessage™️ they add TheMessage2™️
warped blade
But yeah saying that CL doesn't need a change is as bad of a take as vigi having...
Vigilante having two bullets is fine though
quick girder
i just think it should have some way to still apocs
i.e. "CL does extra dmg against other "factionals"
warped blade
Necromancer's change is fine, a little underwhelming since Necromancer needs more but it's not an awful thing
quick girder
factionals as defined as: roles with night chat
gaunt cave
@quick girder that's a good idea, just make not apply to neutrals
warped blade
Potion Master being able to heal anyone is fine
quick girder
it would apply to vamps, apoc, and cs techincally have night chat aswell
quick girder
Potion Master being able to heal anyone is fine
i agree
quick girder
yeah true
warped blade
Wildling getting night actions/feedback doesn't seem that useful, plus I think it steps on Potion Master's toes a little bit with revealing which I dislike
gaunt cave
also remember pirate has night chat
quick girder
cl dealing extra dmg against vamps and apoc makes sense to me though
warped blade
Which is dumb
elfin forge
also remember pirate has night chat
So does Jailor
quick girder
Wildling getting night actions/feedback doesn't seem that useful, plus I think i...
true
warped blade
Ritualist nerfs are necessary but these are nerfing it in the wrong areas
Yeah but it doesn't fix many issues
quick girder
So does Jailor
also true but like "cl does extra damage against vamps and apoc" is much more clunky then "cl does extra damage against roles with (evil) night chat"
warped blade
Coven Leader's change is probably okay but I haven't been a fan of the idea
verbal turtle
The kill potential with Medusa gonna be insane
quick girder
stupid rit nerf idea: you need to guess 2 roles to get a kill, you kill your first guess, if you guess both wrong you get revealed but if you only guess 1 wrong the people you tried to guess know that a rit tried to guess them
warped blade
Dreamweaver essentially is a deadlocking role which I don't think is healthy for the game
quick girder
The kill potential with Medusa gonna be insane
i kinda dislike the "put a mark on someone, if they visit you they die" its like a vet but instead of alerting they need to guess who is going to visit them
warped blade
Still
Plus it's not original since Poisoner exists
Poisoner being a Hypnotist is interesting, but the kill still being there is really lame
verbal turtle
stupid rit nerf idea: you need to guess 2 roles to get a kill, you kill your fir...
Just make rit delay it’s blood ritual by a day when coven (Pmer) revveals a role or when town reveals a role
Way better
warped blade
Wait why does Dreamweaver grant extra killpower?
verbal turtle
Look at doomsayer
quick girder
that makes medusa needlessly complecated compared to "hide information"
verbal turtle
It’s death delay is way better
quick girder
Just make rit delay it’s blood ritual by a day when coven (Pmer) revveals a role...
or when witch reveals
dont forget witch
quick girder
maybe give it the doomsayer effect of "you have been something something'd by the ritualist, hang them by the day or die"
warped blade
Overall yeah but there are a lot of things I dislike
Coven Killing roles in general are just flawed since extra killpower outmatches any other ability for Coven
So I'd rather not have more of them
Compared to the other post it's better but it has a long way to go still
quick girder
i agree with 90% of these changes, its just i have more to say about the ones i dislike :p
warped blade
I think it'll be easier if you spread out the roles in different posts
So you can get more accurate feedback
quick girder
speaking of traction, go upvote #1207153734749126726 right now
warped blade
Yeah but it's really hard for people to vote what they like/dislike
Other posts have a lot more traction however
quick girder
Yeah but it's really hard for people to vote what they like/dislike
i disagree tbh
making a list is not that hard
maybe with straight up reactions yes
but the opinion can still be made clear
warped blade
maybe with straight up reactions yes
That's what I mean