#Cleric should be removed... opinions?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tropic crypt
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Basically, the reason I make this post is because every TP role that gets added / every role that gets reworked into a TP makes Cleric worse and worse. So, TL/DR, should Cleric be removed, and, if so, should it only be removed if the Deputy rework is implemented?

So, to give you a not so quick rundown of my opinion and my logic:
Every TP and TP-like role has strategy and interesting gameplay... besides Cleric.
Starting off with the base roles:
Trapper - was always my favorite TP in the base game, it gets info like a TI, and can kill evils without much downside (doesn't die like BG, or kill town like Crus). To compensate, it only protects every other night (if the trap is triggered).
Crusader - Can kill non harmful evils, at the cost of killing town. Requires you to coordinate visiting TP calls with other TPs.
Bodyguard - Probably the least strategic TP in the base game, but still has some gameplay setting up chains with a Cleric or Crus to kill theoretically infinite attackers, at the cost of taking TPs off of TPows and other confirmed townies.

Now for the modded role (Oracle) and reworks (Trickster/Admirer/Deputy):
Oracle - Essentially a Cleric, but instead of choosing someone to protect, you protect every townie that has a certain role. Very interesting, because I feel like it has two playstyles. You either need TPows to reveal or open claim in non set role lists to do your job and protect them. OR. You can make an educated guess on which roles are atleast in the game, allowing you to protect them without forcing them to reveal as TPow to get TPs on them. You also directly counter Starspawn.
Trickster - Half TP half TK. Essentially has the same protection power as a Cleric (except that it can't cure Poison) but only 3 uses (which makes sense, because it is, after all, a TK role and not a TP role) You can then kill IF you successfully protect someone.

Continued in the comments.

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Admirer - Doesn't directly grant defense or redirect attacks like all other TPs, but makes you roleblock immune, astral, and protects you from rampages (which BG/Trapper do not do iirc). In addition, cures negative effects (this is where things get iffy), including, iirc, Poison. Admirer + Oracle completely steals Cleric's niche.
And now Deputy... (Before I go further, I wanna say that I did see that the Deputy rework was not guaranteed to happen.) From the post its hard to tell if Deputy will grant defense / redirect an attack onto itself (like BG), or if it JUST kills. However, the post uses the phrase "stand guard", which I assume means it attacks similarly to a BG, but instead of killing an attacker only, it can kill also non harmful evils (similarly to Crusader). I like this idea a lot more than Crusader, because now if a townie dies its not because RNGesus said "Hey Crus, you're gonna kill the seer over the hex master, ok?" Now, if a townie dies, its because another townie actually misplayed (or was TT).

So, that brings me back to my point. Cleric should be removed because its niche is overcrowded and every other TP or TP-like role does something unique and has interesting strategy or gameplay to go with it, while Cleric is just "hey, this person asked for tp, lemme click the button."

BUT, I want other people's thoughts and reasoning. And if you think I'm completely stupid, please say so.

languid fog
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Okay so

  1. Cleric has 0 issues
  2. Crus is getting reworked at some point
tropic crypt
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Well, but thats the point I was trying to make, is Cleric DOES have issues. Other TPs fill its niche and it doesn't have nearly as much strategy going into it as the other TPs.

dusky frigate
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^

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not really

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oracle cant chain protect the same role

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crus can act as a liability

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trapper is slow

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bg fucking dies

faint otter
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Cleric is one of two things countering poison. This cannot happen

dusky frigate
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thats shit tho

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poison shouldnt kill

tropic crypt
dusky frigate
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its a terrible interaction

dusky frigate
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well id say i definitely would want a cleric over a crus

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simply because crus is too much of a damn liability

tropic crypt
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True, I think I mentioned but I like thr proposed deputy rework a lot more than Crus

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Crus is RNG shit and its like, "if theres a witch and a confirmed seer, why tf u killing the seer"?

dusky frigate
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i want crus overhauled to be an actual bg/cleric hybrid anyways ngl

faint otter
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Poison should like RB for two nights and roleblock the next day too imo

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at the cost of a 2 day hangover

dusky frigate
faint otter
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I'd say but meh

dusky frigate
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just make it both night and day rb

faint otter
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Fair

dusky frigate
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with 2 day hangover with inf uses

faint otter
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But a 2 day RB

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yeah

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so you can't fuck over roles like Jailor too badly

dusky frigate
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2 day hangover is there cuz jailor can be softlocked into being a villager

faint otter
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yup

dusky frigate
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i have a poisoner rework

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#1201136677209509949

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its probably one of my best

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after the ench/illu ones

faint otter
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Lmao wait that's literally almost everything I just said that's sick

dusky frigate
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yeah

faint otter
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w fucker

dusky frigate
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ye

proud trench