compact blade
NE is a very jank subalignment atm, every role except inquisitor sucks, so gimme those reworks
(You can talk about exe and pirate here)
https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1200136288075006093
https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1200470432529268826
https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1200481683418402846
bold quartz
Jester doesn’t suck !!! >:(
compact blade
Ight post links and I'll place them in the original message
half axle
I’d even like to rework inquis
compact blade
Ok so what is good about jester?
half axle
“Haha funy”
bold quartz
Jester is fun it’s unique it’s different to the rest of the game
compact blade
You can talk about Inquisitor
bold quartz
And I don’t think it really has anything bad about it existing
half axle
What does inquis do again
compact blade
Unique is not always a good thing nuggy
half axle
I need to check
lost stratus
Me when nuggy likes Jester
bold quartz
In jester’s case it is
trim kindle
I’d even like to rework inquis
Fr
trim kindle
I dont like any of the NEs balance wise
But Jester is rlly fun
lost stratus
i think Jester is the single most boring ass role
half axle
Jester is a social role
compact blade
I mean rn btos2 jester is just tos1 jester
half axle
In a not social game
trim kindle
i think Jester is the single most boring ass role
Shut up Jester hater
flint adder
exe got replaced right
half axle
Yeah
bold quartz
Exe got replaced with inquis
half axle
Jester’s issue is that it’s a social role in a very not social game
compact blade
Yeah exe got replaced but we can probably bring it back
fringe siren
Jesters actual effect on the game is so
Eeccchdhdu
half axle
Jester either:
lost stratus
Shut up Jester hater
no u
half axle
Jester rewards looking like scum in a game where scumreading rarely ever happens
bold quartz
Jester you can win consistently as
But you can also win
Without trying
Which sucks
lost stratus
Jester is fine IRL/Games where mechanics are unreliable
half axle
Jester rarely ever wins by their own merit
lost stratus
they're fun
half axle
It’s luck
flint adder
How about letting Jester haunt someones house every night (after death), scaring all visitors off (“You were scared off by a Jester” + no night feedback)
bold quartz
I win like all the time as Jest
lost stratus
(unless it's Boomdandy, fuck Boomdandy)
lost stratus
@fringe siren and fuck you too
half axle
Goblin*
bold quartz
(unless it's Boomdandy, fuck Boomdandy)
I know I am opening the floodgates but what is it
half axle
Goblin+fiddler
lost stratus
I know I am opening the floodgates but what is it
Jester Famine
bold quartz
I think you said before but I forg
fringe siren
<@487045257981067289> and fuck you too
What did I DO
lost stratus
What did I DO
Boomdandy Enjoyer
fringe siren
I DO NOT ENJOY BOOMDANDY
half axle
Boomdandy is just goblin+fiddler
half axle
I DO NOT ENJOY BOOMDANDY
You enjoy vizier that’s worse
half axle
You enjoy riot 🤮
half axle
||this is a joke Amelia enjoys none of these things they have good takes||
fringe siren
💀
compact blade
Ight send in rework links and I'll add them to the main post
fringe siren
Anyway NEs
compact blade
@tawdry sun can you pin?
fringe siren
Raki is not a mod so no
compact blade
It really was
bold quartz
We should prob have more people who can pin
tawdry sun
I gotchu
bold quartz
THANK U BESTIE
compact blade
Honestly yeah, maybe if you have 5 suggestion posts with good reception you can pin?
bold quartz
Btw I had to ask tuba
To allow me to pin stuff and delete posts
Curt didn’t give me that ability xd
compact blade
Gotcha
bold quartz
/threat directed at curt
fringe siren
Doomsayer moment
bold quartz
Low key prefer doom over rit 
fringe siren
I dont know how to fix it because the fix I was originally going to propose a long while ago uhh
Was inquisitor
bold quartz
Oooop lmfaoooo
compact blade
Honestly we could just make do into another role
half axle
I really wish discord would allow the post OP to ping shit
compact blade
I might have something
maiden rune
Maybe a rework on doom to only kill 2 people
compact blade
The only issue with this is it's quite similar to inquisitor
fringe siren
ALPHABETICAL FIRST ROLE NAME
compact blade
What?
fringe siren
This role
Is looking for the alphabetical first role name 💀
fringe siren
Yes I have seen Wolford dullaghan I thought it was cringe but you do you
half axle
I’d suggest a TOR RO but none of them are really unique
half axle
And the ones that are don’t work in TOS
compact blade
Admittedly cringe in a funny way
All I want in life
fringe siren
Then suggest Usurper
compact blade
I also got this
compact blade
Then suggest Usurper
The neutral selection sucks ass in tos2
grim osprey
Oh we are talking about NEs... Oh goodness.
grim osprey
Idk.
compact blade
Raki knows jackshit about ptn
tawdry sun
because it's funny to bully ptn
compact blade
Ok but why?
grim osprey
Do you want like 120 diff roles to think about in the back of your head?
If not then no xd
tawdry sun
The only thing you say when things are brought up is
"This is literally usurper"
tawdry sun
I hope you receive undercooked spaghetti from a high end restaurant
fringe siren
I mean okay I bully ptn over role bloat
compact blade
That's fair
I've been busy, once I'm free for a bit I'll probably start deleting some things
half axle
Aren’t there like 20 factions
half axle
Same difference
grim osprey
I hope you receive undercooked spaghetti from a high end restaurant
What I'm wondering is why you are eating at a high end restaurant that undercooked spaghetti.
fringe siren
Well
I shot my shot for exe, I dunno how to change doomsayer, Jester I'm not touching with a ten foot pole
And pirate will probably not change
grim osprey
I mean we got Pirate reworks so I'm not worried.
fringe siren
Jester is fine ig
With two kills?
Ehhh
compact blade
It doesn't have 2 kills yet
half axle
It only has 1
fringe siren
I just don't like reworking Jester because it's Jester and people are too attached
fringe siren
It only has 1
Hate to break it to you man
fringe siren
It has 2 in modded
half axle
Funnnnnn
bold quartz
I think they tried to give it two
half axle
I hate it now
bold quartz
I have no idea if it actually does or not
fringe siren
I dont know if it works either but that was the plan
bold quartz
I feel like I remember it being the same
compact blade
I swear to God if it does
compact blade
Btw I'm probably gonna do another discussion thread for today, what should I base it around?
compact blade
I was thinking something a bit more minor, and then do CPow/tpow tomorrow
I could do CK
grim osprey
Then... Idk TS?
compact blade
I'll probably do CK or TK
grim osprey
Then CK
compact blade
Because TK currently has a bunch of issues
fringe siren
TK is
Well
grim osprey
CK only has Conjurer.
fringe siren
Vigilante and Trickster are fine but then Veteran and Deputy are sure there
grim osprey
Both of the others suck baaaad
half axle
Vigilante is not fine
grim osprey
Vigilante is not fine
Vigi is manageable at least.
half axle
It has 3 kills and hangman
grim osprey
Yeah. So lower the max potential but also get rid of hangman.
It's not rocket science lmao
half axle
I like you’re takes
grim osprey
Hey that's what I'm known for. Naaaaaah jk.
potent trout
Jester kills 2 ppl its twice the funnies
compact blade
Balancing over the funniest isn't always a good idea
main spire
jest is inconsequential and just doesnt exist
doom is still doom
#1200470432529268826 i did this for exe
potent trout
For doom I think that it should kill 1 by 1
So like if you guess mayor dep conj.
The night where you win Mayor dies
1 night later Dep dies
2 nights later conj dies
It would randomly kill them so there's no choosing who dies first or it would have a priority system like Town -> Coven -> Apoc -> NS -> NE -> NK
main spire
for doom id like this
frigid wigeon
Inquisitor doesn't need to changed
compact blade
Inquisitor is a role, it should be fine
main spire
it is fine
also its how i just found out cs lost defense
i thought i died to a bug
but it was cuz cs dont have defense
frigid wigeon
Lol
main spire
and curtis is an L
dapper dawn
jest is bad for the games health
main spire
jest isnt bad for the games health
dapper dawn
because it's easy to win as and contributes literal nothing to hurt town
main spire
its just inconsequential
dapper dawn
didn't they buff it here tho
fringe siren
Jester still punishes lynching scummy players which
"Yay"
main spire
yeah
frigid wigeon
Both need someone hanged
Both have some sort of defense
Both take someone with them when they leave
main spire
yeah
dapper dawn
defense is a neutral characteristic
dapper dawn
being removed from the game is also just NE characteristic
frigid wigeon
Get someone Hanged
dapper dawn
so you can't use those
frigid wigeon
That's the playstyle
dapper dawn
Get someone Hanged
get yourself hanged vs get someone else hanged
is a very different task
one affects how other people act towards another play
one affects how players act towards you
frigid wigeon
I'm not saying they are exactly the same
dapper dawn
I never said that
dapper dawn
I feel like exe and jest are way too similar
you said this
they are different enough
to where it changes the game
frigid wigeon
Eh..
frigid wigeon
I do
frigid wigeon
Ig it isn't werid for me since I play ToL
dapper dawn
it's not consistently anti everyone cause you will get 1/2 splits in ranked proba
and if you get 1/1/1 well then the neutral now has another person on their case
frigid wigeon
Yea getting a neutral killed is kinda hard especially if they know inquisitor exists
lost stratus
also jest is a reverse exe and vice versa
in a sense, yes
lost stratus
But now it’s really mid for me
it's not even mid
it's just bad
boring
and doesn't really add anything much to the gamet
sharp wagon
Mid in enjoyment
Bad in role design
I hate how jest is designed because it’s too easy to win by doing nothing
But when I’m jest I play somewhat actively and make questionable wills and I end up dying at night instead
It feels so weird, I guess I’m trying too hard?
lost stratus
Mid in enjoyment
nah i don't even enjjoy it
sharp wagon
It could be worse imo but it’s gotten more bland because of the player base
The “let’s lynch jest” mentality
manic gust
The “let’s lynch jest” mentality
the thing is, as long as jest has the wincon that it does, this'll always be a problem to some degree
lost stratus
It could be worse imo but it’s gotten more bland because of the player base
nah i just don't like playing jester whatsoever
manic gust
you can't ignore sus players as town
lost stratus
never liked it
sharp wagon
the thing is, as long as jest has the wincon that it does, this'll always be a p...
Yea
compact blade
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the end of this month, but with help from @toxic canopy I have made more questions
@main spire @sinful obsidian @tulip wing @lofty dagger @wind goblet
@heady lichen
compact blade
Taste of your own medicine I guess
toxic canopy
so many pings
heady lichen
what the tarnaton?
compact blade
Answer questions about balancing
heady lichen
ah
compact blade
It'll be fun trust
heady lichen
alright
compact blade
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
@bold quartz can I get a pin on this?
compact blade
so many pings
Also you might as well answer some with your own opinion
toxic canopy
I'm in a game
compact blade
Ight
lofty dagger
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
because at the end of the day
sure we could make doom anti-town
but alot of people wouldn't like that, espically the more acutal people
so fuck it it
shove it in NC
and get new roles like btos2 exe
in NE
since NE in base-game and in modded other than modded EXE
act like NC anyway
btw i wann make it so
exe -> jester X
exe -> [wipname] (same thing as jester but can only target town)
so no real change
lofty dagger
1. YES? THAT MAKE EXIST NC AND MAKE IT SO NE IS NP-LITE LIKE EXE IN MODDED
2. Ye...
just make new roles and allignments
it would be the much easier option
compact blade
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
@severe wraith sorry pal, you're doing questions now lmao
severe wraith
Oh hi
proper forgeBOT
@severe wraith has leveled up! (29 ➜ 30)
heady lichen
file was too big
tulip wing
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
1: they should be at least somewhat anti-town, not help town otherwise we have the fkn survivor problem
2: yes
3: it could, because getting locked out of a win due to all the townies dying too fast (aka doing your anti-town job well) is not healthy
4: yes
5: yes
6: that's called neutral pariah so nah
7: around doom impact level i'd say, but it depends on which NE and how easy it is for them to win (more difficult wincons get higher impact)
8: jest is iconic, exe means TI claims and D2 pushes have some doubt on them, doom is anti VFA, and pirate is a chaotic little goober, inquis is exe but better, imo doom doesn't do its job well enough but it does a better job of it than rit, exe fails completely and inquis is not as bad but still not the most impactful
9: NE is a chaos slot that serves various purposes that would otherwise be difficult to do with factional roles, and occasionally a double-edged sword against town as they mostly harm town but also are much more unreliable teammates for evils as they could very well harm them too, i'd say if this is what they are intended to do they do it fairly decently (except exe)
10: no, otherwise the moment a doom dies d2 everyone just fullclaims anyways, defeating the purpose of the role
11: nah, it'll either be too high to affect most games or have the same issue as question 10
12: no, its a silly little goober
13: fucker's wtos2 executioner seems fine as a rework, but honestly the torment mechanic needs to be reworked entirely at minimum. Maybe have exe always have a town target and if their target dies they get a new target thats town, and when all town dies exe targets anyone, torment randoming on guilties could still work with this to bring back the double-edged sword part but a different rework to torment might be better
14: #1253825206854746193
15: nah
16: i'm not the best person to ask for this
17: separating NE into NE and NC might be a better idea but idgaf
exe should be able to switch targets if their target dies instead of becoming a completely different fucking role
honestly i dont give a fuck
compact blade
exe should be able to switch targets if their target dies instead of becoming a ...
I have an exe rework alot like current exe but instead of becoming jester it just fucking dies
tulip wing
there is no way devs would delete jester
tulip wing
I have an exe rework alot like current exe but instead of becoming jester it jus...
exe when their target DCs
tulip wing
But it can protect it's target during the night
this is an interesting idea
compact blade
There can be a contingency if the target dcs
compact blade
That's literally what it is
tulip wing
fair
compact blade
I haven't posted it yet since when I showed it someone literally called it more unbalanced than a town witch
wind goblet
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
Was at a party, sorry for the late reponse.
specifically on 12, I think jester at it's current state can be too easily used as a town tool.
letting it guess anyone stops the "tpow don't guilty" meta
tulip wing
I haven't posted it yet since when I showed it someone literally called it more ...
did u show it in official server
if so then ignore it
wind goblet
well not guess, haunt
compact blade
I can probably find it
Whoever said it and the message
#1039942123014856724 message @tulip wing
And you can scroll up to see my version
Oh your simply not in tuba's server
compact blade
Sure?
tulip wing
ok
compact blade
If you want I can send you more PtN stuff
tulip wing
nah its fine
compact blade
Or you can wait for V2 PtN which will be way more balanced
compact blade
can i post a version of exe heavily based on that?
Ping me when you post it
wind goblet
Lemme just, start this debate rq:
Doomsayer and Inquisitor should be a different sub-faction themed on neutral with a specific, non total annihilation themed goal. (aka non-town wipe, but still a good portion of town)
compact blade
Nah that's too specific
Once again with PtN, the way neutrals are done would benefit tos2 alot
wind goblet
I mean you can also make a broader bucket at the same time
like, doom and inq could be Neutral Destruction, and could be a part of Neutral Nuisance as a group bucket
compact blade
Wildcard Order (Neutral Power) is jackal or vampire type roles, they are their own faction but not big enough to get a unique alignment
Wildcard deception (neutral deception) is roles like Executioner or jester that heavily rely on the trials system
Wildcard Injustice (Neutral Evil) neutral roles that are generally bastards to town and can be menaces to everyone, roles like doomsayer or Inquisitor
Wildcard Evil (Neutral Pariah) I mean, y'know the drill
Wildcard Chaos (Neutral Chaos?) literally your misc wildcard section, for stuff like that surv rework or cs (if there was only 1 cs allowed)
lofty dagger
I'm just saying, we need NC back and more roles like btos2 exe as kinda like an np lite
wind goblet
Wildcard Order (Neutral Power) is jackal or vampire type roles, they are their o...
that's also really specific-
I'm not saying no btw
compact blade
I mean tbf PtN has a shit ton of neutrals
Lemme get the link for the drive, I'm already using a different drive for V2
wind goblet
I also feel like more NEs (not sure how we'd get them) would be neat, part of why I'm pushing for NE to just be nuisance instead of the anti-meta subfaction
wind goblet
them having anti-meta properties is fine, but I see them as just, roles to mess town up without exactly killing half of them in the process
compact blade
.2. Factions
.7. Wildcards
lofty dagger
I'm just saying, we need NC back and more roles like btos2 exe as kinda like an ...
So basically
In base game
NE: Modded exe, ?, ?
NC: doom, jester, pirate
Modded
NE: Exe, ?, ?
NC: doom, jester, inquis
Also CN would only be Ne and Np still
tulip wing
#1254621046573633667
lofty dagger
No I like current modded exe
compact blade
No I like current modded exe
Personally the whole exe turning into jester is cringe
lofty dagger
Eh
It's not bad but I would have them turn into literal jester
Town killer only jest
compact blade
I mean slap this onto current exe and we solid
lofty dagger
Maybe a new naje
compact blade
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
@distant spruce you should answer these with your own opinions
distant spruce
Well my opinions are spicy
distant spruce
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
tulip wing
1: they should be at least somewhat anti-town, not help town otherwise we have t...
adding onto this, i think NPs should be rewarded for helping NEs as they help all evils, so i'd make it so NPs are just immune to NEs
theyre immune to jest haunt, if exe torment roulettes NP is ignored, doom cant guess NP, NP survives inquis attack and can't be heretic, and idk pirate can do whatever the fuck it wants
thats the only exception to NE's anti everyone i feel is good
compact blade
You wanna answer some questions @bold quartz?
wind goblet
theyre immune to jest haunt, if exe torment roulettes NP is ignored, doom cant g...
I completely agree to that.
I'll say this to see response, inquisitor's existence needs to be reconsidered, what it does now is... odd, I'm not saying for it to be removed, but it's abilities and length of powers need to be re-considered, right now it just causes specific roles to have a target on their back that can't really be defended from.
Doomsayer of course has to stay for anti-vfr reasons, but I do think it needs to not guess evils so easily.
Thought of a doom ability,
Peer ( ☀️ ♾️ ) [unlocked after d1]
Guess the faction of one person, if correct, you are informed so.
This would let other roles be harder to guess while still having a way to bring them into a smaller selection of roles to choose from. (being able to bucket guess coven is wild to me tbh)
This is separated because that concept can be on it's own, but, to make Peer more risky, if you guess wrong, that person is informed they were peered at?
Neutrals are Neutral, compliance and pandora take over what the role would of been, NS roles that cause their own faction would be Neutral. (If doom can even guess NS)
distant spruce
But how would you win
wind goblet
you... still guess people?
it's an added mechanic, to balance the fact it'll be harder to guess factions
pretty much if someone says they're a specific role, or if you just have an inclination, you can make a check
it doesn't remove evil guessing, I feel like that'd break a very prominent piece of doomsayer, it just makes it where you can go "this guy say's they're trapper... lets see if they're actually town. You select them and night happens, they aren't town knew it."
since guessing evil is, typically the way doom tries to, slip in the last guess so it can actually pass, knowing 3 people in a game either requires a lot of tpow, players who can't shut up, or a very, very lucky game. Evil guessing is your safety net for that 3rd candidate, and I think that's, meh, evils shouldn't be doom's "I'll coven and just hope it's right so I win"
doom is meant to read, and sus people, not just guess and pray (though it is a strategy, it should just not be built to be a very viable one)
compact blade
I still don't want more than 1 evil killed by doom
wind goblet
I agree, but I also find it awkard if they're in a game with high evils or town is just, dead
which, making roles have to fit to specific modes is not something I want to do
they need to be the same in all modes mechanically, not just changed to fit a specific one's needs
compact blade
So just make it if there's equal or more evils than town, you can guess more than one evil
wind goblet
would it be, a silent trigger, or communicated to doom?
compact blade
Communicated
compact blade
Tbf if you subtract ti, there are times where you can potentially get that message n1-2
Could also give you the message if it's physically impossible to win
So if there's 4 tis and one TPow left and 2 evils
You can guess more than one evil
"A surge of dark energy flows into you, you can now select more than one evil role"
wind goblet
Could also give you the message if it's physically impossible to win
but also if it's 4 town that are guessable, and 3 evils, that sucks A LOT to try and guess
compact blade
Then suffer?
wind goblet
pirate moment 
compact blade
NEs shouldn't be easy?
wind goblet
(kidding)
compact blade
Also just wait until one of the 4 townies die
wind goblet
i guess that's also very, game dependent
compact blade
Then it's equal, that's such a nonissue
wind goblet
if it's two sets of killers
compact blade
NEs shouldn't necessarily be easy to win as
lost stratus
NE shouldn't exist. Period.
If a game has need for NE's, that's a huge flaw within the game's core
unless said NEs are Jester and Exe
even then, i completely despise Jest
Jest is not really that much of a necessary evil as much as Executioner is
since well
If you need a reason to think twice before hanging someone, myslinches exist
lost stratus
the only NE i like is Exe because it's a suicidal pushing machine, which serves to ease the burden on evils and make people think twice on Agressive townies specificaly
and it would still be NE regardless if it only helped evils
you know why?
Because NP As a Subalignment is a WINCON
To be NP you just need the Wincon
not that Wincon? not NP
compact blade
You should fully answer the questions gab
compact blade
Alright, we're back, imma try to do more of these once I actually move at the en...
.
lost stratus
You should fully answer the questions gab
no
compact blade
Lmao fair
lost stratus
yeah Emmet i am written by Vivziepop now you fucker
wind goblet
NE shouldn't exist. Period.
I do also think the gimmick of haunting that jester and exe have are, somewhat extra? I get it, but just them succeeding is wasting town's time, which I honestly think should be what NE is, not just "oh haha you got tricked now I'ma kill you."
Doom and Inq honestly don't feel like NE in my heart, they feel just, different tbh
though that's probably a controversial opinion
wonder if it's possible to get the statistics of how often town wins when a (or more) NEs win
specifically jester and exe
I'd say at most NE should cause the death of one person, because it's their goal
I know that's a wild take though
wind goblet
I do also think the gimmick of haunting that jester and exe have are, somewhat e...
If NEs gimmick was time wasting, there would be so many different ways NE could go into, instead of being stuck as the meta breaker, which is just weird as a sub-alignment
lost stratus
I do also think the gimmick of haunting that jester and exe have are, somewhat e...
I GOT YOU WOW
lost stratus
I'd say at most NE should cause the death of one person, because it's their goal
hmm not really but it usually result in
lost stratus
I know that's a wild take though
you're almost correct
wind goblet
I mean I'd say make doom and inq a new sub-faction, and create a bucket for that sub-faction and NEs
lost stratus
I mean I'd say make doom and inq a new sub-faction, and create a bucket for that...
@compact blade i want him now.
wind goblet
what kind of cult am I being put in-
lost stratus
i value people with brains
tulip wing
i like how NE is right now imma be honest
lost stratus
what kind of cult am I being put in-
the Keres Cult
compact blade
i like how NE is right now imma be honest
I assume you don't want this guy right gabb?
As well
lost stratus
I assume you don't want this guy right gabb?
i won't answer to avoid unecessary insults
and intrigue
lost stratus
last one i was in fell apart
usually happens with cults
that aren't the catholic church
compact blade
what kind of cult am I being put in-
Friend me and you can get the redux drive for PtN yadda yadda
Gabby likes how you balance I guess?
wind goblet
i like how NE is right now imma be honest
what in the what-
lost stratus
Gabby likes how you balance I guess?
yes
also Rat is a cool fella from what i've saw
severe wraith
NE exist as a holdover of PR madness for the sake of PR madness
tulip wing
heres the thing
severe wraith
Party game Mafia, for example, was played with no serious competitive environment in mind
tulip wing
jester won't get changed because its iconic and fun to play as
severe wraith
It was just a place to socialize and goof off
tulip wing
exe is fine
doom serves a critical purpose of being anti VFR but it could get changed (like #1253825206854746193 or smt)
lost stratus
jester won't get changed because its iconic and fun to play as
actually it's 50/50 for Jester being fun to play as
you either love it or hate it
tulip wing
actually it's 50/50 for Jester being fun to play as
better than most roles
lost stratus
better than most roles
honestly yes
lost stratus
50% is higher than any role
compact blade
I still have no idea what I want to do with jester in PtN
tulip wing
I still have no idea what I want to do with jester in PtN
current jester i guess
lost stratus
it certainly is a role
tulip wing
🤷♀️
tulip wing
it certainly is a role
it is
tulip wing
just have it win when it gets hung
no need for haunting
or have it hard roleblock all guilties
lost stratus
or have it hard roleblock all guilties
we probably will go with something along this
tulip wing
or do the 'public humiliation' where a town member's role is revealed to all evils and theyre isolated permanently
🤷♀️
lost stratus
for now it's skip a day
tulip wing
doesnt that just give town longer to think
lost stratus
doesnt that just give town longer to think
it gives evils 1 more night to kill
lost stratus
so it hard rbs all townies
ye
young ridge
where is my jester rework??????
lost stratus
where is my jester rework??????
isn't your jester rework smth along the lines of vultuire
tulip wing
hangman was added to remove ref to suicides
lost stratus
i like it but not for Jester
tulip wing
i doubt theres any chance it gets added
wind goblet
Jester will likely stay the same ( other things need to get fixed sooner stares at doom )
tulip wing
Jester will likely stay the same ( other things need to get fixed sooner *stares...
again #1253825206854746193
would probably be the best way to approach it
there is a few ppl who really like doom tho
compact blade
where is my jester rework??????
Rogue role now
wind goblet
If we do have the separation of NEs for the more killing ones and the nuisance ones, the suggestions I'd have...
compact blade
Gotta love mobile
tulip wing
lol
young ridge
i like it but not for Jester
what should i make it for
should i just re-flavor and make it a diff role
lost stratus
should i just re-flavor and make it a diff role
maybe
i really like the idea of Neutral (Deception)
young ridge
i mean jester wont ever get a rework with its current state i dont think
so just making it what I said isn't a bad idea
wind goblet
Thoughts on NE being split? (to make it two sub-factions, with a bucket that includes all the old NE roles so current lists don't have to be null)
main spire
how bout the pits to them all
if pariah stops nes from being able to be anti town
then nes should go
wind goblet
if pariah stops nes from being able to be anti town
not my sentiment personally
main spire
its the sentiment of many however
lofty dagger
and it would still be NE regardless if it only helped evils
yeah
I agree with this sentiment
NE should ne NP-lite
this is why i want NC to be an allignment
so we can shove Jester, inquis/pirate (modded/base-game) and doom into it
and allow for more Supportive neutral evils
there is no need to make
50 new sub-allignments
for neutrals
like "neutral depective"
i think that's just
way too much
wind goblet
I honestly just want two, ones that kill many, and ones that kill zero to two (technically one, but exe is weird)
because to say that doom/inq are similar to jest/exe is wild
tulip wing
neutral chaos: fuck everyone except neutral pariahs, they cool
neutral evil: fuck everyone, but more fuck town, with fuck everyone as a backup
neutral pariah: fuck town specifically, but im a pacifist
neutral killing: murder
neutral special: all of the above
lofty dagger
neutral chaos: fuck everyone except neutral pariahs, they cool
neutral evil: fuc...
nah
i want NE to just be
fuck town
tulip wing
yes but they also have fuck everyone as a backup
lofty dagger
NC is the fuck everyone one
wind goblet
I mean high evil count, low town, they live late in the game
lofty dagger
???
main spire
like if all town dies
lofty dagger
ah
tulip wing
like if all town dies
this
main spire
the ne shouldnt get punished for helping evils obliterate town
lofty dagger
ah ok now i get it
tulip wing
i dont want neutral evils to just be locked out of their wincon
tulip wing
like if we have exe that switches targets if their target dies and only targets town, they should be able to get evils as targets if town wipes
as an example
lofty dagger
idk what the fuck do with NE if all town dies
tulip wing
and not just spontaneously explode if its 2 town and a vigi believes them a bit too much
lost stratus
idk what the fuck do with NE if all town dies
it wins
tulip wing
(i said it as an example)
lost stratus
IT WINS
lofty dagger
works in base-game
lost stratus
thats called neutral pariah
it's a joke
main spire
idk what the fuck do with NE if all town dies
let them hurt evils or have witchons
lofty dagger
but yeah that's just an NP that can leave earil
tulip wing
let them hurt evils or have witchons
witchcon is NP
lost stratus
but yeah that's just an NP that can leave earil
turn them into Survs
main spire
witchcon is to live to see town die
lofty dagger
let them hurt evils or have witchons
no because then just add NP to base-game (I WANT THIS SO BAD BUT BMG ISN'T GOING TO FUCKING DO IT 😭)
lost stratus
fr fr
lofty dagger
turn them into Survs
main spire
pariahcon is to have town die
wind goblet
Exe should get evil targets before zero town, so that it can't just go "hey evils, found the last town"
lost stratus
Survivor - Neutral (Evil)
Atribbutes:
lofty dagger
witchcon is to live to see town die
eh... i guess?
compact blade
Attributes:
lofty dagger
i mean like
yeah
acutally yeeah no yeah
that wroks ig
ig
ig?
idk
that works more for base-game
then modded
@main spire
main spire
ye
its a complex thing
to have healthy nes pariah shouldnt exist
but pariah are infinitely better
wind goblet
like functionally doom and inq function so differently, I don't like it on any level that it's just roped in together. They can keep their bucket with each other, but functionally they can't just be the same sub-faction
main spire
its a problem yeah
my solution to fixing this dillemma would require a whole new game
lofty dagger
where we ever
crave out a new allignment for it
and move jest, doom, inquis/pirate to another one
or we just... idk do something to make it an NP???
main spire
if bmg survives the death of tos2
lofty dagger
idk man Np-lite is really weird
main spire
id say tos3 should just have pariahs and no nes
lofty dagger
if bmg survives the death of tos2
tos2 isn't going to die
wind goblet
I guess inq like, vaguely, VAGUELY, stops vfr
main spire
its inevitable
main spire
soon or in the next 5 years
lofty dagger
I guess inq like, vaguely, VAGUELY, stops vfr
no lol
tulip wing
I guess inq like, vaguely, VAGUELY, stops vfr
inq on their way to fullclaim after 1 of their town heretics die (their other heretics are hex master and coroner)
lofty dagger
no one gives 2 shits
main spire
it really depends on how fast they fix the issues
wind goblet
inq on their way to fullclaim after 1 of their town heretics die (their other he...
I honestly want to have pirate and inquisitor be completely overhauled, reconsidered, or removed, their mechanics are just, out of left field compared to everything in the game, and makes it awkard for them to exist
lofty dagger
it really depends on how fast they fix the issues
idk because
do we make NP-lite a thing
if so, how do we make this work in modded?
should we make it work in modded? should we just kill all the other NE'S and rework exe in a full NP?
so many fucking questions
tulip wing
what happened to inquis being a good role that everyone was praising
wind goblet
you know what would be interesting? make inq a NS with a mode that has like 3 of them (random thought)
lofty dagger
inquis is a FUN role
tulip wing
you know what would be interesting? make inq a NS with a mode that has like 3 of...
spanish inquisition
lofty dagger
it's not a well balanced one
lofty dagger
tulip wing
it's not a well balanced one
also in this category is old deputy and jester
main spire
idk because
do we make NP-lite a thing
if so, how do we make this work in modded...
if im being honest i think purging is a requirement
wind goblet
I think making it a NS would honestly be the best for it tbh
tulip wing
you cannot tell me old deputy isnt fun
lofty dagger
if im being honest i think purging is a requirement
honestly i don't think so
atleast not for base-game
for modded then yeah sure
main spire
oh definitely for basegame
lofty dagger
since NP exists, we don't need NP-LITE
main spire
theres a couple who should burn
lost stratus
i'll pst it rn
tulip wing
socialite is a lost cause
wind goblet
Doomsayer becomes Neutral, and can appear in any neutral slot
tulip wing
Doomsayer becomes Neutral, and can appear in any neutral slot <:real:12252215071...
neutral pariah spawning doomsayer and nuking 3 cov
ranked in shambles
compact blade
Isn't socialite literally just a bouncer in base game?
tulip wing
i'm not sure if i like it but its better than current soc
main spire
Isn't socialite literally just a bouncer in base game?
yeah
tulip wing
Isn't socialite literally just a bouncer in base game?
bouncer + lookout
compact blade
Why the fuck is it lookout?
lofty dagger
@main spire ok imma just be fucking honest
i full fucking agree
but your going to miss off so many fucking players
by just burning a shit ton of roles
people like, and this will fucking cause peoiple to be pissed
people LIKE chaotic roles no matter how bad it is for the balancing of the game
people LIKE anti-everyone
so this is why for base-game i want NC to be a thing
and NE to become NP-LITE if NP never come to base-game
main spire
Why the fuck is it lookout?
overtuning
tulip wing
Why the fuck is it lookout?
they see if people get bounced
lofty dagger
<@675026397059612694> ok imma just be fucking honest
i full fucking agree
but yo...
remember if we are talking about base-game
you have to consider the ENTIRE player-base
tulip wing
and if someone gets bounced they cant be bounced again
wind goblet
ranked in shambles
serves it right for trying to usurp TAA as the best gamemode
main spire
<@675026397059612694> ok imma just be fucking honest
i full fucking agree
but yo...
youll piss off a lot of people no matter what you do
tulip wing
this is why old dep is still there in tos2 base game
main spire
like its literally a choice between who youre pissing off and the long term consequences
tulip wing
like i agree modded dep is healthier, but its also much less fun
proper forgeBOT
@tulip wing has leveled up! (34 ➜ 35)
tulip wing
shut up tatsu
main spire
deleting roles will help in the longterm balance
and players will retent more
especially in the competitive scene
lofty dagger
youll piss off a lot of people no matter what you do
idk
replacing base-game exe with btos2 exe
moving jester, doom, pirate to NC
and making 2 new NE (NP-LITE/WITCH-CON) roles to fill the empty spots now in NE
might just be a better way
lost stratus
deleting roles will help in the longterm balance
Less is More
lofty dagger
idk
replacing base-game exe with btos2 exe
moving jester, doom, pirate to NC
and...
i don't see why this way of doing it would piss people off
lost stratus
but ToS2 Playerbase is not one to understand that
tulip wing
idk
replacing base-game exe with btos2 exe
moving jester, doom, pirate to NC
and...
i agree but btos2 exe torment mechanics is
questionable
and also it becomes jester
wind goblet
idk
replacing base-game exe with btos2 exe
moving jester, doom, pirate to NC
and...
The concept of Doom and Jester being remotely similar baffles still
main spire
idk
replacing base-game exe with btos2 exe
moving jester, doom, pirate to NC
and...
the issue with nc zlot existing
tulip wing
which in this case would be moving across alignments
lost stratus
Anyways
main spire
is that its just gonna exist to throw issues under the rug
lofty dagger
the issue with nc zlot existing
look i am just making it so doom and jester stay the FUCK out of ranked
lost stratus
@lofty daggerTHEY DELETED SURV THREAD BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
lofty dagger
LOL
main spire
instead of throwing it under the rug
tulip wing
look i am just making it so doom and jester stay the FUCK out of ranked
me when everyone fullclaims because rit doesnt have the balls to guess off random claims
main spire
<@232102315702616064>THEY DELETED SURV THREAD BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
wait what
lost stratus
They know i am TOO POWERFUL
compact blade
I'm going to murder the deleter
lost stratus
wait what
i made a Joke Surv Threadf
IT GOT INSTANTLY DELETED
THEY KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BECOME RIOT 2.0
tulip wing
i made a Joke Surv Threadf
it was just 'what did u do to get this'
main spire
...
lofty dagger
me when everyone fullclaims because rit doesnt have the balls to guess off rando...
i wanna make a NE guesser that can only guess town
god i am not stupid
if they win they roleblock all of town for 1 night
wind goblet
I'm still going to champion that jester and exe need to not kill people when they win, it makes them healthier and actually thematically similar
lost stratus
it was just 'what did u do to get this'
exactly
tulip wing
i wanna make a NE guesser that can only guess town
this could be a good pirate rework
lofty dagger
nah shove pirate in NC/keep his ass in NS
main spire
doomsayer
wind goblet
we just need to make a new role and call it pirate tbh
main spire
nah shove pirate in NC/keep his ass in NS
please do neither
main spire
we just need to make a new role and call it pirate tbh
^
tulip wing
doomsayer who only guesses town is uh, questionable
wind goblet
I tried ability stealing, but to make it town specific like, shakes it so much
main spire
its doomsayer
main spire
I tried ability stealing, but to make it town specific like, shakes it so much
ability stealing is sc2 auditor level atrocious
lofty dagger
no as i am not making it an unstoppable attack
main spire
its just fuck you for existing
lofty dagger
ability stealing is sc2 auditor level atrocious
BRO
YOUR CALLING THAT SC2 LEVELS OF
ok hold
i need to
pull up a curtis suggestion
lofty dagger
what mind wipe?
wind goblet
now the NE discussion is really doing what it was meant to, a boiling pot of thoughts
lost stratus
@lofty dagger do you remember this https://discord.com/channels/1197645970998054992/1200964360332378212
wind goblet
I have a wild NE concept if we can remove the concept of NEs killing people when they win
lofty dagger
its doomsayer
no
idk how balanced this is yet but yeah
i mean yeah it still kills a person
but it is preventable
main spire
no
1) it will only guess 1 town
2) once it guesses that one town, it will deal a...
why attack
lofty dagger
becaues idk how else to make a NE role-guesser
main spire
why is it basic specifically
main spire
becaues idk how else to make a NE role-guesser
lofty dagger
so veterans don't have to beg for TPS when they wanna
main spire
tulip wing
thats a kill without the kill part
lofty dagger
no that would be better as an NP
main spire
its like that rit suggestion
main spire
no that would be better as an NP
... yes
tulip wing
fucker made doomsayer a neutral pariah
wind goblet
# PERMA ISOLATE
I remember having this concept at some point, I'm on board
tulip wing
ww on their way to kill every single kill-capable role on the perma-isolated n4
lofty dagger
@main spire idk i still want the concept of having NE still leave the game
(they will have a secondary WITCHCON ofc if everything goes to shit)
tulip wing
<@675026397059612694> idk i still want the concept of having NE still leave the ...
nah if they have a secondary witchcon theyll just play like NP i think
wind goblet
hrm, make jester and exe perma isolate their target???
lofty dagger
they have to be alive
nps can win while dead
main spire
and no
lofty dagger
jesus christ no
tulip wing
(/s)
wind goblet
egotist is already argued a bit, we don't need every game mode to be like that
wind goblet
https://tenor.com/view/ultrakill-7-4-benjamin-earthmover-gif-4223866776694779177
lemme just get my railcoin...
lost stratus
lemme just get my railcoin...
lofty dagger
@main spire remember
i also want these ideas in modded
well because modded is kind alike the uhh
testing place
for base-game
kinda
so i don't wanna just make
tulip wing
nah modded balance and base game balance is different
lofty dagger
NP IN NE
tulip wing
with neutral pariahs
wind goblet
reworks can be somewhat testing, new roles will likely never appear
lofty dagger
NP IN NE
i still want a leavable goal
so NE is atleast special form NP
although I STILL WANT NP WITCHC
COME ON
#1251247687148245003 ISNT' A BAD IDEA
I WANT NP WITCH
😭
tulip wing
I WANT NP WITCH
young ridge
# INQUIS IS FUN, not balanced
Any role that relies on RNG for its condition is unbalanced
tulip wing
Any role that relies on RNG for its condition is unbalanced
tpow can die n1 or not die n1, thats rng, its unbalanced
wind goblet
it's a cool concept, bad part is that it's just a role with a new win con, so people don't vibe with it
wind goblet
tpow can die n1 or not die n1, thats rng, its unbalanced
but we can agree pirate's rng is just stupid
lofty dagger
tpow can die n1 or not die n1, thats rng, its unbalanced
hm
hmm
if only
there was a role
built around anti-n1 swing
hmm
oh well
tulip wing
but we can agree pirate's rng is just stupid
technically its not true rng?
lofty dagger
doesn't exist
tulip wing
built around anti-n1 swing
amne can spawn or not spawn, its unbalanced (/s)
main spire
tpow can die n1 or not die n1, thats rng, its unbalanced
wind goblet
technically its not true rng?
yea but people forget what rng is and if I try to explain they're just talking about chance and player input they'll stop me there
lofty dagger
@main spire you mean amne?
main spire
oh yeah
lofty dagger
LOL
tulip wing
yea but people forget what rng is and if I try to explain they're just talking a...
fair
main spire
actually there is a reason
because bmg had the bright idea to have 2 anti n1 swing roles
tulip wing
intelligence 300
idk why amne even became a town role
if anything it should've been antiswing for evils
main spire
necro
lofty dagger
@main spire i want to make it so
wind goblet
I mean I get it, kill a unique role, you expect it to disappear, not come back from amne
tulip wing
heck even having it be just neutral would be fine still
main spire
<@675026397059612694> i want to make it so
1) retris bounce each other to make i...
i want day raising
wind goblet
<@675026397059612694> i want to make it so
1) retris bounce each other to make i...
pretty sure rets can't use the same body
lofty dagger
pretty sure rets can't use the same body
wrong
player prio
whoever is higher on the list getsd it
tulip wing
yes
lofty dagger
i want to just
destory that
entirely
no more prio
BOTH retris bounce each other
main spire
and if multiple retris raise the same unique role they become poisoned(not the killing kind) instead
tulip wing
me when you get punished for playing optimally
lofty dagger
in that interaction
wind goblet
i want day raising
if that happens, retri would be borderline tpow
lofty dagger
i want day raising
ok that's broken
main spire
if that happens, retri would be borderline tpow
it would require the tpow dying
wind goblet
that's still a tpow ability
main spire
its the anti n1 swing role
compact blade
Honestly why do we have both amne and retri?
tulip wing
me after prosecuting, tribunalling, and then find 2 evils with sheriff
main spire
Honestly why do we have both amne and retri?
stupidity
tulip wing
Honestly why do we have both amne and retri?
bmg is on something else
neutral amne was fine
main spire
me after prosecuting, tribunalling, and then find 2 evils with sheriff
me when that requires town to get hard fucked
main spire
neutral amne was fine
... no
lofty dagger
"NB IS DEAD"
"UHH, UHH WHAT DO PUT IT"
"FUCK IT MAKE IT TS"
"ok team, nice job back to the cocaine"
main spire
dont
tulip wing
make it neutral evil
real
neutral evil, remembers the first evil death, if evils win before u remember u also win
lofty dagger
NP AMNE
CAN ONLY REMEMBER EVILS
KEEPS THE NP WINCON
(this would be the most broken shit ever)
tulip wing
no if u remember an evil u inherit their wincon
main spire
good god
tulip wing
but if u dont remember u have np wincon
like if cov wipes town without a single death
tulip wing
isnt this what u wanted NE to be
lofty dagger
no, i want NE to help out all evils and to just be town-fuckers
(as in fucking over town not fucking town)
tulip wing
ye it helps the first evils taht dies and fuck town and if it fails to help dead evils cuz theyre all alive then it just wins
lofty dagger
ok i was joking about
np-lite
also the fact it doesn't keep the np-wincon
means it shouldn't be np
tulip wing
i said np wincon
not np role
u said smt about NE having NP wincon as a secondary win condition
tulip wing
same thing
lofty dagger
no
tulip wing
np wincon is witch-con
tulip wing
eh alright then
well if it dies first for helping evils it shouldnt get punished for that
so i guess its NP wincon
until it remembers
wind goblet
NP AMNE
CAN ONLY REMEMBER EVILS
KEEPS THE NP WINCON
I mean if it's forced to remember the first evil that dies, kinda interesting
young ridge
NP should just replace NE straight up
lofty dagger
yeah but that isn't happening
young ridge
NE should be deleted and all NE’s reworked into Np
lofty dagger
in base-game
young ridge
ToS doesn’t benefit from NE ever at all
wind goblet
NE needs to turn into annoyance instead of non-direct murders and whatever doom and inq are doing in that sub-faction
steady field
NE should be deleted and all NE’s reworked into Np
It's kinda funny that the current NEs (except Inq and Doom) could easily work as NP with just a few changes
wind goblet
It's kinda funny that the current NEs *(except Inq and Doom)* could easily work ...
Jester trying to die
Executioner trying to get someone to die
steady field
yup, still works
wind goblet
no? NPs want to stay alive
wind goblet
yea but, jester just wants to get itself, it has, no reason to care about anything else
steady field
of course, dying is always worse than just not dying 
but it's a lot more favorable for the NP to die instead of a factional evil
wind goblet
but NPs whole gimmick is actively trying to give an upperhand to evils, not just a one time safety net
steady field
you're thinking of current Jester as NP with no changes
that's not quite what I'm thinking
wind goblet
I mean yes if you change jester it can be NP, what would you change?
lost stratus
yea but, jester just wants to get itself, it has, no reason to care about anythi...
SINNER
I HEAR SINNER
lost stratus
I mean yes if you change jester it can be NP, what would you change?
SINNER MOMENT
LESSGOOO
young ridge
I mean yes if you change jester it can be NP, what would you change?
The first time jester is lynched. The jester chooses a player: they’re lynched instead
lost stratus
@compact blade BRING SINNER
young ridge
That’s my immediate and first draft
steady field
you did
young ridge
Sinner is a PTN role
steady field
compact blade
Oh god
compact blade
Hi gab
lost stratus
Hi gab
Sinner, Graverrobber and uhh
the Other one
DOOMSAYER
LMAOI
YEAH OG DOOMSAYER
compact blade
I said hi to the other gab
